I really like the self applied conditions and hope they stay aswell. Just gives some risk to using the skills.
If the skills are deemed to weak for the self hurt, then the positive effects should be buffed, not the self applied conditions removed.The suggestions are good, but:
Blood is power: i think the might can be increased
CPC: just turn it to vulnerability. anet is not going to implement something like -X Armor when Vulnerability already exists. I’d also change the self inflicted condition to bleed or torment, since a skill that makes enemies vulnerable to physical attacks and gimps your own physical attacks at the same time is a bit contradicting.
Vuln doesn’t do the exact same thing. I actually think it should reduce armor by a percent now that I think about it, some pve bosses have a ton of toughness, and it should be stronger on higher toughness targets. The other point of that debuff would be for pve where it is really easy to get 25 stacks of vuln. Unique buffs and debuffs make a lot of classes in pve, and having one or two would be really good for dungeon necro viability.
This is why necros have been asking for LF at the beginning of the match, every other class gets their profession mechanic for the whole match. Meanwhile, we can literally be shut out of a match entirely because of LF generation.
Im laughing so hard right now. Cause I know some of you have never played GW1.
Im talking about a MECHANIC CHANGE so you cant say its a nerf or a buff. That argument is completely invalid.
GW1 doesn’t matter this is GW2. Your being really dumb cause you want something to change that doesn’t need changing. There is a plethora of skills on necro that do, but these aren’t them. Warhorn is a great weapon in every single gametype, but you want to change it so you can get a few skills you want. That’s really dumb, and really selfish when there are tons of reworks that ACTUALLY NEED TO HAPPEN.
I actually love the self applied conditions. It means they either hurt you or they can be used to help you or they can be used to hurt your opponent. It really is a matter of preference though. I think it justifies the strength of some of these skills though as well.
I kind of think corruption skills are lackluster, they need to be better than they are currently. Due to that, I’m gonna suggest a few changes and a new trait.
Corrupt boon: Corrupts all boons, 3/4 second cast, so it has counterplay. Nothing else changes
Blood is Power: 4 stacks of self bleeds for 5 seconds, 6 stacks of enemy bleeds for 10 seconds, 8 stacks of might for nearby allies for 12 seconds. Makes the transfer more predictable, gives aoe might which is better than self might.
Epidemic: Fine as it is
Corrosive Poison Cloud: Weaken yourself for 7 seconds, blocks projectiles, and applies Corrosion to enemies in the well, reducing their armor by X amount pulses every 3 seconds (not sure what that amount would be, 300-400 maybe).
Trait: Master of Corruption (GM tier) reduces CD by 20% (remove the other one), and corruption skills have additional effects.
Corrupt Boon: Corrupted Boons have double duration
Blood is Power: adds 4 stacks of might giving it 12 stacks
Epidemic: Applies 10 stacks of vulnerability to enemies
Corrosive Poison Cloud: Also applies poison and weakness as it functions currently.
I think this would help these skills in all game modes, but especially pve where we need the most help.
This already exists. It’s called venoms and it’s terrible.
And that has everything to do with the way the build works, and not the idea of offensive support.
Venoms in GvG/squad/TDM are pretty good actually. It’s just not a “solo queue/roaming” spec.
Also, venoms are getting a pretty big buff in the upcoming patch with some traits being made baseline.
The only time you would land all 25 stacks is when you would have killed the person anyway. The only class that won’t either avoid or break out of a cc immobilize chain is a necro, and that’s the only way a team is going to use even 1/3 of those stacks. Engi will dodge twice gear shield, thief will port away or stealth, mes will port away or stealth, ele will invuln, port or dodge, ranger will block, stealth or dodge, Warrior might actually be susceptible to this, guard will just invuln.
Anyway, this really describes the problem with this skill, we are trying to rationalize it being so bad with the fact that it can deal decent damage if you use all the stacks. It’s a healing skill though so it’s role more than anything should be to heal, and it isn’t very good at that.
6/6/x/x/x d/f d/w is highest possible dps in a coordinated group that will be stacking might for you, and providing vuln. If you aren’t getting enough might than 6/2/0/0/6 a/f d/w would win out because you can stack more self might and vuln on enemies.
Let me break it down real quick. Lich form could be a spectral skill because you utilize spectral energy to take the form of a lich, easy enough. Plague could not be a well because wells are ground targeted aoes that don’t move, plague isn’t ground targeted and moves so that means it isn’t a well. Plague could fit into being a corruption skill by simply making it apply torment to you on entering.
To all the people that said necro LOL, so much. You don’t play the class if you think DS is well designed. Anyway here is my list
Good: Mesmer, thief, ele, engi, guardian (don’t think these need explanation they all feel unique and fun)
Bad:
Warrior: simply boring, it doesn’t add enough to the class
Ranger: Having good pet management helps, but 30% of your damage being tied to something that doesn’t dodge and whose abilities are super telegraphed isn’t good design.
Necro: All the things necros give up for DS in my sig, no healing in DS, natural degen (everyone keeps calling it a second health bar make it act like one or don’t call it that), everything is balanced around flashing it, has far too much counterplay (you can burst through it or just disengage as someone said, which literally means do what you want and you have countered it), can’t remove conditions in it, no stun break in it. The list goes on and on and on and on. Again if you think DS is a good design you don’t play the class, and have no idea.
Elemental attunement is far too strong to be made baseline as it is. It also has boons attached to it, meaning it is unlikely to be made baseline. Also, the ele changes are a dream compared to what necros got, so it could be worse.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. The only problem with that is that master of terror wouldn’t do anything if you weren’t in curses. This leaves two options. One is to make the damage baseline, and integrate the extra damage into master of terror, thus removing terror entirely. The other is to make terror the GM minor (merged with crit chance or remove the crit chance and make it the gm), and buff master of terror (with for instance, a trait that made interrupts lower cooldowns on fear skills or something).
As long as they also look at necros, who are in a far worse state across the whole game, I agree. It mainly comes down to eles having lowest hp and armor by default. They need a tad more innate defence that every build gets. Making single target elemental attunement baseline as others have suggested might help, but I still think glassy ele builds will get ganked real hard by thieves.
Necro changes (or lack thereof)
Something pinkish.. too bad there aren’t many skins like that from what I’ve seen. been considering this one, but it might be a bit too… gnarled?
I’d get the tormented staff, 150 gold or so I think.
I’m sorry, but your just blatantly wrong. On average GMs are way stronger than Masters which are on average stronger than adepts.
Let’s see… Parasitic Contagion, Withering Precision, Necromantic Corruption, Unholy Sanctuary, Vampiric Rituals, Unholy Martyr, Renewing Blast. Those 8 traits are more than half of all grandmaster traits, and yes, they are all completely useless.
Now, are you really telling me that you can’t pick at least that many master or adept traits that are stronger than them?
Just because necros have a bunch of terrible GMs doesn’t mean they weren’t designed to be stronger than the adepts or masters. Maybe you just don’t look at other classes, but there is still a very clear distinction between the strength of GMs, Masters, and adepts. If you can’t see that the average strength of GM traits across all classes, not just the most broken class in the game, is higher than the average of Masters and adepts you aren’t trying.
If you don’t want to accept that it is fine, but it isn’t worth arguing with someone who isn’t accepting what is obvious.
It is worth arguing when people are discussing traits based on the assumption that there is supposed to be some kind of hierarchy. Even if there was one now, with specializations you always get the entire line and that makes thinking in tiers pointless.
There is a very clear hierarchy. This doesn’t show very well on a necromancer, but looking across all classes it is again very easy to see. It might very well be pointless, although I like different strengths of traits personally, but it does exist.
The concept of adept, master, and grandmaster traits seems overly arbitrary now with the changes. IT made sense before when you had the option to put adept traits in the grand master slot. Before there was some clear hierarchy. That hierarchy has been abolished since you are forced to take the full line, and there is no overlap between tiers. At this point it is simply tier 1 tier 2 and tier 3.
He get’s it.
Again, I’m not saying it isn’t arbitrary, but you have to realize there is a very linearly increasing power difference between the tiers still. The last trait you pick has a much bigger possible effectiveness on a fight than the other traits. I’m not gonna argue if this distinction should exist, simply that it does, and the devs, at least so far in the traitline previews, clearly want this difference to be in place.
I’m so tired of the, bad is subjective argument. Sure it is subjective, but my subjective opinion on what is bad is based on objective facts. It is an objective fact that many necro utilities underperform in comparison to others when you attribute performance to variables like dps, hps, boon uptime, and condition uptime.
I would also argue good games are not made because of balanced classes. Games are far more successful for being fun than for being balanced.
Sure there are a bunch of people who just want blatantly OP stuff, but there is also a lot of people that want really dumb changes to things that already work, while ignoring things that don’t.
Our argument came about because you want changes to skills that both fit the necromancer theme, and work effectively in mid to high tier play. I want stuff to be reasonably balanced too, but your asking for changes to something that is balanced and works reasonably well already. Maybe if everything else on necros worked well than that would make sense, but there are a ton of necro traits, weapons skills, and utilities that are objectively bad. They are objectively bad because they underperform numerically in comparison to what other classes in this game can do. I would much rather see the developers invest time into these things, that don’t work currently, than putting their time into fixing something that already works.
GMs are stronger than other tiers though, so I’m not assuming that.
Except they aren’t.
Some gm traits are just total garbage, while some adept or even minor traits heavily outshine the ones in higher tiers.The tier system still exists, adept, master and grandmaster
Yes, but with the specialization system you might as well call them A, B and C. It’s just a name and no longer an indicator of their power.
They also stated GMs are supposed to be build defining, and change the way you play, which is why LC shouldn’t be GM, it isn’t build defining or epic, it just makes stuff better.
Just proves that the devs should’ve never use that term. It only served to confuse people into putting an artificial value on the gm tier or analyse how creative a trait’s contribution to a build is.
Again, stop thinking in tiers. What you need to worry about instead is if Lingering Curse – Terror – Parasitic Contagion is a matchup that makes sense, or if you moved LC down to master, any other constellation of traits that might result in that shift.
I’m sorry, but your just blatantly wrong. On average GMs are way stronger than Masters which are on average stronger than adepts. There are exceptions, but in general this is true. Anet also very clearly wants this to be the case, as you would know if you watched the stream on new traits.
I’m thinking in tiers because that is how it is. This is an easily observable fact, and has been confirmed by the people designing the game. If you don’t want to accept that it is fine, but it isn’t worth arguing with someone who isn’t accepting what is obvious.
So your saying you would rather have a silence and a bs pbaoe skill, than 2 ally buffs that could buff minions and allies with lifesteal and more damage?
lol
So your saying you’d rather change two skills that work perfectly well, instead of buffing stuff that is bad.
LOL
But that’s exactly the problem the current meta you never “run out of boons” because by the time one set ends the next set is off-CD. That’s why boons needs longer duration and even logner CD’s.
Except that isn’t what happens for most classes, and most builds. That’s what happens for warriors warhorn, and eles. Eles need a ton of protection, and regen to stay alive as a tank, and warriors warhorn is arguably op. Outside of that who has perma anything? Again, longer boons and longer cooldowns would make the meta super stale, people would have to wait out your buffs which is boring.
LC should be changed to: 15% attack speed and 20% condition duration on scepter skills. Then it should be master tier. The only way a trait like this should be a GM is if it adds an actual new effect, not just increased effectiveness.
I like the idea of increased attack speed, afterall the biggest selling point of the scepter is the poison on auto attack but for that you have to complete the attack chain.
However, people really need to stop thinking in tier-hierarchy with the new specialization system. Since you get the entire line anyway you can’t assume grandmaster traits are stronger than lower tiers.
So when you say LC should be master instead of grandmaster you’re not doing so because it isn’t strong enough, but you’re really questioning if the trait is paired up against the right alternatives.
GMs are stronger than other tiers though, so I’m not assuming that. The tier system still exists, adept, master and grandmaster are still different tiers to represent different strengths (really obvious imo, but I can give plenty of examples). They also stated GMs are supposed to be build defining, and change the way you play, which is why LC shouldn’t be GM, it isn’t build defining or epic, it just makes stuff better.
They have no party support utilities.
You didn’t get it, necro warhorn is already good, so changing it to give group support when we have utilities and traits that are bad and need reworks isn’t productive. Anet’s effort would be better spent to buff utilities and traits to give support instead of reworking two skills that are already quite good in their respective roles.
I think the solution should be the opposite. Boons are much too spammy right now. I can’t even tell you how many times i’ve stripepd off a whole line of boons from an enemy just to have them instantly reapply them.
What we need is longer boons with MUCH longer CD’s. If you can spam apply boons for 2s every 6s then just get rid of boon strips and boon counterplay because it is worthless. Applying a boon should give you a significant advantage for a short time, and stripping it from an opponent should put them at a disadvantage for an equal amount of time.
No this is wrong as well, all builds shouldn’t have to run boon removal to counter something. The actual counterplay to this for the majority of builds would be waiting till their boons run out and ganking them when it did. Boon application needs to be long enough to have an impact and be removable, short enough to not make a class unkillable or op for 30 seconds, and frequent enough to give you adequate survival over the course of a long fight. Long duration long cooldown is boring, and skilless and would turn the game into a waiting game.
The OP discussed permanent boons being bad. To some extent I agree, I don’t want to see groups running around with perma protection, perma fury, perma regen, and perma might. Having said that, some classes need a lot of boons to be even remotely tanky (ele, mes, thief(vigor)), so those classes need that. I don’t think Anet has changed enough stuff to suddenly see perma-protection in groups. The only thing that needs toning down is the stupid high aoe vigor uptime warriors are giving by simply running warhorn.
LC should be changed to: 15% attack speed and 20% condition duration on scepter skills. Then it should be master tier. The only way a trait like this should be a GM is if it adds an actual new effect, not just increased effectiveness. For instance, if scepter attacks applied torment on every hit, that would worthy of a GM. More stats is not what Anet should be giving as GMs, which is effectively what LC does now.
The warhorn is actually in a very good place, it is selfish, but that is fine because it is effective. It gives one of our only sources of scaling defense in the LF regen of locust swarm. Wail of doom is also really useful. They could add a blast finisher to wail of doom, but otherwise I wouldn’t change this weapon. Necros could get group support from other places, traits, and utilities for instance.
The single worst heal in the game. Behind other terrible skills like skelk venom (which can provide group support), blood fiend (which heals for more per second), and other heals that are very situational (like defiant stance, and aed). Also note that all lifestealing builds that employ blood magic are terrible. Your better of taking other traits in every scenario because the small amount of damage and healing is never worth it.
Perhaps giving a benefit on Interrupt that allows for better availability of fear? Something like recharging 40% of the cooldown for Doom if you land an interrupt with it. This discourages players from throwing doom on an already terrified / controlled opponent, but would hopefully not be so strong that players could just chain doom indefinitely.
The idea is that the lower damage of Terror compared to Lingering Curses is made up for in the increased uptime and control of fear. It also makes a Terrormancer have more uses of Doom available to them than someone using Lingering Curses.
That would be sweet, they could simply make it lower the cooldown of any fear skill used to interrupt a foe.
Other than mesmers(which was improved a lot with the specialization changes)
For PVP maybe, but Mesmers in PVE are still worthless. Mesmer damage is balanced around the assumption that you’ll have three phantasms out all the time (i.e. you never shatter), and even then you’re still the lowest DPS because armor runes don’t affect illusions, and there are barely any damage multiplier traits.
With all the on-shatter traits, it’s just a spit in the face of PVE Mesmers who can’t ever make any use of them.
If they actually want to fix Mesmers, they need to decouple the Mesmer’s damage from phantasms.
Necros are far worse in pve than mesmers, mesmers bring reflects, condition cleanse, stability if necessary, invis for skipping, the best boon stripping, aoe pulls, and portal for absolute maximum speed runs. The damage might not be the greatest, but many record speed runs bring mesmers simply for their incredible utility and portal skipping. The class is certainly not worthless in any sense of the word.
Should reduce the aftercast or the precast time slightly. That would fix most of the reliability/clunky problems without overbuffing it.
Isn’t the precast+aftercast a full half second or so? If so that would really be all it takes.
I think the new spiteful spirit could be build defining if it was a blast and had no ICD. I mean DS flash builds are a thing. But we dont really have a grandmaster trait for them. And a flash trait with a blast is the perfect match for that.
Spiteful Spirit w/ blast + wells = dark/vampiric aura
Please Anet make it happen, synergy would be really cool.
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I think it has to have a cast time reduction because unlike staff eles, we do end up in situations where we need to be auto attacking in DS because everything else is on cooldown. Staff eles always have something off cooldown by switching attunements. It should also definitely be a projectile finisher because it’s the biggest most telegraphed projectile in the game.
As far as the Dark auras thing goes, I just think that’s what should happen when people leap through or blast dark fields instead of lifesteal. Then maybe you could see some trait support like mesmers got, or just leave it at that.
As for Terror, the damage needs to go up by more than 17% or master of terror needs to get merged into it. Currently, it doesn’t deal that much extra damage. Mesmer new trait that deals 25% more damage on shatters is a way bigger burst dps, and overtime dps than terror, and it has an extra effect of dealing 50% extra damage when targets aren’t activating skills. It isn’t strong enough to be GM right now.
I still think a shared vampiric buff should be the build defining trait of Blood Magic, then the other traits in that line could build off of that. Some kind of support needs to be innate to that traitline (as in included in the minors), or it will always be bad because investment in healing power is only useful if it is also benefiting allies.
I’m fully with you on chill builds, it would be cool if there was a GM that gave necros the extra endurance that chilled foes weren’t getting (or just gave us vigor for chilling people cause it would be simpler), or lowered our cooldowns by a set percent for chilling foes.
I love tomes, please don’t get rid of them. At the very worst they are skill points you can convert to gold, so I don’t understand the complaint.
I don’t think DS in and of its self is the problem, it’s a decent mechanic, but isn’t balanced properly. For instance, the on enter/exit DS traits are balanced purely around flashing DS when they should be balanced around spending several seconds in DS. Also, too many skills are balanced around their LF generation, and not enough things scale with number of enemies. Spectral armor is the perfect example. In comparison to armor of earth it doesn’t grant stability, but gives 8% LF on hit with an icd. For one it shouldn’t have an icd (LF gain reduced accordingly), and it shouldn’t be completely inferior just because it gives access to our profession mechanic. I’m not saying SA should be the same as armor of earth, but I don’t think generating LF should be justification for a skill being decent because every other class just gets access to their profession mechanic by default.
Too many skills give up too much just so they can give LF. Another example is feast of corruption, the idea is nice, but it’s a direct damage skill on a condition weapon. It does very little outside of building LF for condition builds, and is otherwise bad for the condition builds that use it. Our skills should be good and generate LF, and considering how many different things other classes skills do I don’t think this would be OP. The last problem is of course that healing doesn’t work in DS, it should work 100%, nothing else makes sense. Then they can balance accordingly.
Cant you go DS mid stomp without interrupting now?
Yea this would be nice, cause FITG is only one stack of stab, so you could skilfully switch in to avoid the one incoming cc. Similar to a mesmer using Distortion with no clones to successfully avoid the one cc.
Thanks Holl.
I WANT THEM ALL!
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50% vigor uptime only when your getting hit seems pretty fair and more necroish than 50% vigor uptime for critting people. If it’s that big of a deal than just make it the same trait every other class has at the minor adept slot.
Unholy Sanctuary is an adept tier trait, don’t know why people don’t get this. It’s literally regen for like 30% of a fight if that. If the numbers were like 250-300 per second base then maybe it would be GM worthy, but I’m of the opinion camping DS to be tanky is bad gameplay and should be discouraged. Since the anet devs said they want GM traits to change how you play, that being a gm doesn’t sit well with me. Moving it to adept requires no changes, and gives the appropriate power level.
Necromantic Corruption at master tier seems really strong, but a lot of really strong traits are now master tier (i.e. panic strike). Maybe this would still be too strong, but preventing the 25% damage buff from builds taking death nova is bad. Also, keeping this at master tier would give a minion GM, toughness GM, and boon GM which fits the theme of the line perfectly.
The reason I suggested changing Reaper’s protection is because I’m against completely passive stuff. Making doom aoe seems comparable to RP, but promotes good timing of skill use.
Also, the changes presented are not ok. We still have very few traits that give boons in that line (every class should have some access to boons), and the line provides no support to teammates at all. It also still has two terrible minors because more DS from deaths should either be baseline or not exist, and toughness in DS is super boring. I try to present changes that give traits a big impact on the playstyle of the class, currently Death Magic does none of that.
A lot of people are saying death magic is going to be decent with the current changes. I completely disagree, as pretty much every classes boon duration traitlines are way stronger. For that reason I’ve written up my changes to this traitline.
Adept Minor:
Spiteful vigor: grant 5 second of vigor on being critically hit (ICD 10 seconds)
Adept Tier:
Flesh of the Master: Minions have 50% increased health. Gain 20 bonus toughness for each minion you control.
Unholy Sanctuary: Regen healing in DS.
Putrid Defense: Actually a cool trait, maybe could be changed to enemies you poison deal 10% less damage, so it’s less selfish.
Master Minor:
Shrouded Removal: Convert a Condition to a boon when entering DS or remove a condition from you and nearby allies when entering DS.
Master Tier:
Reaper’s Protection: doom is now in 240 aoe around your foe.
Necromantic Corruption: Minions Deal 25% more damage, draw conditions from you and transfer a condition on attack to your foes.
Shackles of Life: Tainted shackles converts conditions into boons on allies per pulse (3 conditions to boons.
Grandmaster Minor:
Beyond the Viel: grant protection to you and all nearby allies when leaving DS (360 radius). Minions do not count towards the aoe cap.
Grandmaster Tier:
Death Nova: Minions explode in a cloud of poison when they die. Summon a Jagged Horror when you kill an enemy (5s icd). The effect also triggers when you down.
Greater Marks: Marks are unblockable (area made baseline like eles). Staff attacks have additional effects:
Necrotic Grasp: 100% projectile finisher
Mark of Blood: Blast finisher on activation
Chillblains: applies Slow for 2 seconds
Putrid Mark: Grants Protection to allies for 3 seconds.
Reaper’s Mark: Grant 4 stacks of stability to allies for 4 seconds.
Deathly Strength:
You are immune to critical hits in DS
Love to hear your opinions, I don’t think Deathly Strength is fun or cool, so other ideas for GMs would be welcome.
I completely agree with this idea, they wouldn’t have to implement a new animation, it would be a very awesome looking skill, and would give us some mobility.
Also, Roe I disagree with that being a reason not to change this, if anything that is another reason this would be balanced because it would have counterplay and would synergize well with Shrouded Removal. I mean come on you can’t tell me that huge lupi animation on your necro wouldn’t make you feel like a bad kitten.
How would it synergize with shrouded removal? You’re already in DS when you’re casting it. Plus no, I don’t want it to have a huge animation. I want it to be as discreet as it is now.
If you got immobilized you could go into DS and use this skill to get away from the incoming burst.
its a bug that happens to all pulls, its just that the engie one is by faaaar the most reliable one.
This, the necro and thief pulls are really unreliable.
Just to clear up a lot of misconceptions in this thread.
Necros do decent dps in PVE, not great, but not terrible and in general close to warrior dps(thief and ele do way way more than warriors).
For casual PvE? Sure. But for dungeons, fractals and other instanced group content? They are terrible compared to the other classes.
Even if you compare a meta build optimized for DPS, warriors do ~25% more damage than necromancers. http://gw2dps.david-reess.de/ If you add boons, buffs, and use a condition build, the gap is even wider.
I main a condi necro and made a warrior to try firsthand the difference. Now when I do dungeons I always take my norn warrior. The base DPS is way better than necro, even if my gear and build are not fully meta.
Did you actually look at that calculator. The meta dps warrior build is 2k dps higher than a necro, but your better of running the ps build which deals less damage than necro but provides support. Also, I have all classes to 80, and am well aware of the capabilities of each. If you think you base damage on that warrior build is high, go play a thief, or ele. You’ll be blown away. Again though, a meta necro is very close to the same dps as most warrior builds with only the meta greatsword build being significantly better dps.
I completely agree with this idea, they wouldn’t have to implement a new animation, it would be a very awesome looking skill, and would give us some mobility.
Also, Roe I disagree with that being a reason not to change this, if anything that is another reason this would be balanced because it would have counterplay and would synergize well with Shrouded Removal. I mean come on you can’t tell me that huge lupi animation on your necro wouldn’t make you feel like a bad kitten.
every class expect necros got new OP stuffs on the paper, but we still don’t know anything but traits. Stop whining!
Fixed that for you.
My issue isn’t that we didn’t get buffs, we did, but other classes got buffed a lot. Necros currently have and ton of really bad traits, merging them into decent traits creates a good trait. That sound nice, but other classes had 2 traits that are decent or good already get merged meaning their traits are now either great or down right amazing. That means overall it is a net nerf. The net effect is that necros get a few extra decent, or ok traits, while other classes are getting a few extra amazing traits.
Also, blood magic and death magic are still bad and terrible relative to every other classes sustain traitlines. I’d recommend going and looking at what other classes got because anyone saying we got “buffed” isn’t considering that every other class got better buffs. Merging 2 bad traits vs merging two decent traits is a big difference. For instance, Powerbottom mentioned the fear on down, to me that’s a very weak buff because I don’t want that trait now, so it’s just more stuff I don’t want. Meanwhile, my mesmer got all 3 signet traits merged. That’s 3 traits I actually want on the same build that only require one trait now. In effect, the necro changes feel like decent trait+bad trait while other classes are getting decent trait+decent trait+decent trait, or good trait+decent trait. Necros need new stuff, we don’t need mergers between the decent stuff and all the bad traits no one wants.
(edited by zapv.8051)
They should bring withering precision back with an icd per target, and put it in death magic maybe.
Honestly, these are some massive overreactions. Procs like this are necessary to actually kill people. Also, most of the classes got buffs, so I don’t think it will be that bad. I’d be far more worried about unkillable builds.
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Man I don’t know. Someone said that got a strong Siphoning build. I am still waiting to see what it is, and why it is strong. I mean if someone is going to say something is strong, Why is it so hard to tell me why? what we are doing wrong.
People say a lot of things, doesn’t change the facts. You don’t have to believe me, go try it for your self. Go to pvp with your necro, equip siphoning traits and play a few games. Then go to pvp with a warrior, guardian, engi, ele, or ranger while speccing into their sustain traits. You’ll realize really quickly how weak siphons are.
To give you an idea, engineers backpack regenerator heals for about 125 per second, and works all the time because the check to see if they are in a kit is every 10 seconds. In order to match that with vampiric you have to be hitting the other person every second 2.5 times a second. That isn’t possible against anyone half decent because of damage mitigation. You might match it for 1-2 seconds, but never over a whole fight. Vampiric precision similarly would require about 2 critical hits per second which is impossible in pvp over the course of a fight. Purely in numbers these traits are behind other classes, what makes it even worse is that necros can’t get healing in DS, so these traits do no healing for ~30% of the fight.
Just to clear up a lot of misconceptions in this thread.
Necros do decent dps in PVE, not great, but not terrible and in general close to warrior dps(thief and ele do way way more than warriors). The problem is that necros provide no reflects, no aoe might, no aoe fury, no unique group buffs, and aren’t that good at aoe blind or aoe condition removal. This is why mesmers, that don’t deal that good of dps, are way more popular, they provide time warp, invis for skipping, portal for skipping, and a ton of reflects. Similarly, rangers provide spotter, frost spirit, and some aoe might.
Terromancer is not that strong in pvp, if you think so you have some very weird qualifications for what is strong because the build is easily countered, and is only run by a few competitive teams (strong builds are run by at least 50% of teams). Just because you do ok with it against pugs does not mean the build is strong.
Siphoning builds are bad, it isn’t about your feelings about the build, or how you feel it performs. It’s about the fact that it doesn’t provide even remotely close to the amount of sustain other classes have and the damage is similarly negligible. Again, you can run it if you want, but you will never get anywhere close to the sustain of guards, warriors, eles, engis, or rangers. This is a fact based on simple mathematics, not opinions.
(edited by zapv.8051)
It would be really great if vampiric gave an aoe buff that allowed allies to siphon. It would be great offensive and defensive support. The numbers would still have to go up a little bit from where they are now though. Also Deathly Invigoration should be 1.5k base with 1.0 scaling because it needs to be at least that to be better than eles healing ripple.
Meanwhile, necros still have 1 completely useless traitline (siphons, aoe heals, and unholy marytr are all super weak), and one that is only a step above that (Death Magic). You also ruined all the synergy from curses with any kind of power build. Also, you once again made two minors that have half the effectiveness when you don’t run minions, did you really not learn the first time? Your still balancing all the DS traits around a flashing build, ignoring the fact that these traits require you to sacrifice DS, which is the classes entire defense. Deathly invigoration heals for 500 base as a grandmaster, healing ripple on eles heals for double that base and it’s a master minor.
I don’t mind engineers getting changes, I love that their will no longer be hobosacks, but it is completely absurd that you aren’t putting at least this much effort into a class that has basic design problems all around. I also hope you realize necros have been asking for changes to death magic and blood magic since the beginning of the game, and regardless of the work you have put in, which I thank you for, these traitlines are still poor at giving support, and sustain that is even close to the levels of other classes.
I can see a Celestial Support Necro build coming out of the new changes.
Blood Magic with Ritual of Life, Transfusion, and Deathly Invigoration
Curses with Enfeebling Blood, Path of Corruption, and Terror
Soul Reaping with Soul Marks, Master of Terror, and Foot in the GraveAll that healing support, Fear, AoE, and being less easily focused would be an interesting ally to have.
So you’ll be able to heal for way less than an ele, warrior, or guard, while providing no aoe boons and few cleanses. Problem is boon corruption, and fears will never be as easy to apply and reapply as boons because they actually require you to land skills on enemies. Even if the effectiveness of aoe soft cc were as strong as aoe boons, which they currently aren’t by a mile, they would still be way weaker than aoe boons because boons are way way way harder to remove than conditions.
Also, the healing is not nearly as good, and deathly invigoration is super weak. Eles heal for 1-1.5k base just for switching into water attunement. They do that about as much as necros go into DS, and that’s a master minor. Deathly invigoration should heal for at least 1.5k base. It’s yet another trait they have balanced around this mystical idea necros can actually enter and exit DS every 7 seconds ignoring the fact that you SACRIFICE YOUR ENTIRE PROFESSION MECHANIC, including all your defense, to do it.
(edited by zapv.8051)
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