OP:
Stealth Burst vs Beserker AmuletBalanced:
All professions with a good build or skilled player behind themWeak:
Bad builds and/or bad players.In my opinion the problem with balance in GW2, is not necessarily the strong builds, its the weak builds that do not synergize well or do not offer anything worthwhile. We have so many traits and skills that are not used, because they are so weak and do not make for strong builds. If they could improve the weak skills and traits, it would increase build diversity and this would in turn help reduce the perception of OP meta builds, because there would be more builds and more opportunities to counter certain builds.
Yeah this is kind of how I feel. Cele ele and a shatter/mantra mes are a little op right now, but so many weapons, utils, and traits are so underpowered no one will ever be able to use them even semi-competitively. Just to give a few examples:
Necro axe
Ele Scepter
Guardian Shield
Guardian Consecrations
Ranger Spirits
Ranger Shortbow
They need to work on stuff like this as much if not more than the OP stuff.
(edited by zapv.8051)
It doesn’t force you to do anything. It says if you want a dungeon reward track you have to complete story or wait for it in rotation.
OP Tier
Mes in general
d/d or d/f ele
Good Tier:
Rampage Warrior
Bunker Guardian
d/p SA Thief
Mid Tier
Cele necro (needs 3 stab on spectral armor to be in good tier)
Engi (in general I think they are still decent, but they get outclassed by ele and mes)
Other Warrior Builds
Staff Ele
Medi Guard
Bottom Tier:
Everything else
So, I dunno, maybe just give everyone like 3k hp so they don’t die quite as fast and call it a day? :/
I actually think this isn’t a bad idea. Maybe in addition to that, buff some of the other burst specs to be more in line with shatter mesmers currently, and call it a day.
Yeah I’d be all for this. Maybe at the same time they could give necros active defense and not buff their hp. Eles, guards, and theives basically have to take vitality right now which isn’t really fair. With 14k hp that wouldn’t be a problem.
Then they need to do away with auto proc damage like chill of death, fire, and air, buff the weak weapons, and fix some of the classes other holes and we would be good.
(edited by zapv.8051)
For me it isn’t even about Jade winds. The only thing that’s annoyed me about revanent is that they blatantly gave another class bigger life steals than the class that has a specialization called blood magic, again. Necros need the skill that’s literally called life siphon to be a huge hitting siphon, so we can feel awesome (9 tiny little hits over 4 seconds sucks, a vampire drains your life, they don’t take it out slowly like a doctor). Simply put, no other class should have better siphoning than necro, and there is no real argument because that is inherent in the necromancer theme.
This illustrates what has made a lot of people angry about shouts. Necros don’t need more channels, necros don’t need more long cast times, and necros don’t need more long cooldowns. It is what the class has already, and the people on this forum, and in game aren’t very happy with it currently either (Mainly in pve, where necros are below bottom tier and have been since launch).
I don’t think this would happen simply cause they don’t want us to have that kind of speed. If they just made this give perma swiftness, and then made dark path a non-projectile teleport it would be a nice buff.
Apparently dark path was a ground target teleport in the beta, but it was too stronk.
Also the reaper RS 2 skill is a 600 range leap, and from playing mesmer with about face phase retreats, I know that a low cooldown 600 range teleport can make you move quite a bit faster, albeit at the cost of life force.
The whole class was supposedly too strong in the beta, but that shouldn’t prevent buffs to this skill which currently under performs as a gap closer.
The current problem with dark path is that it is slow and unreliable. That could be fixed by simply making dark path work like judges intervention on guardian. It could still have a cast time even. Having a reliable gap closer would also fix one of the design holes in Anets philosophy for necro. Anet has said multiple times necros should be hard to get away from, but that simply isn’t the current case. This would be a good way to do that without giving necros a lot of mobility point to point, which seems to be anets goal for whatever reason.
Reaper having a leap should not prevent this skill from being buffed as it is on the base necro shroud.
I don’t think this would happen simply cause they don’t want us to have that kind of speed. If they just made this give perma swiftness, and then made dark path a non-projectile teleport it would be a nice buff.
Thus the problem with necros in general. Double the cast time should mean AT LEAST double the power, but most of the time the extra long cast times on necros aren’t justified by higher damage, healing, support.
Anything with a 2 second cast time will be close to useless against good players. Just saying, necros already have plenty of skills you can counterplay with interrupts. Do they really need another one. It is pretty funny though.
Yeah that huge 2 second cast makes it pretty bad. Also, unless things change plague will continue to be our only useful elite. Against half competent players lich is close to useless, and golem afks more than half the time. CttB will have the same problem as lich in that good players will counter it really easily.
Considering there is another thread in the necro forums comparing this skill to chilled to the bone, I’d say maybe this skill just needs to be weaker.
The design of necromancer is good in that skills have ample counterplay.
The design of necromancer is bad in that survivability in this game comes from active defense and necros have very little. It is also bad in that necromancers do poor damage, and have poor utility and support compared to other classes. A lot of people think the last sentence is part of balance, but it is also part of design.
Unfortunately for threads like this, the other classes will never get nerfed down. If that was going to happen it would have by now. Thieves, mesmers, and eles will always have 1/4 second or instant cast skills that do way too much. Warriors and guard will always have absurd group support, and sustain. The only hope for necros and rangers is for some implementation of a lot of the stuff that makes everything over the top.
The problem with investing in sustain and defensive traits on necro is the lack of stab or mobility. You can have as much % damage reduction and healing skills as you want. None of that matters when your on your back getting bursted down, which is where necros will always be until they get vigor, better movement, or stab. Reaper will obviously have some of this, but the base class will continue to get hardcountered in teamfights.
It doesn’t really need to go down. Bunkers are already extremely strong, if you nerf damage they will get even stronger. This meta requires you to react to burst quickly. I personally love that, and, while some stuff is over the top, it makes the game much faster paced. People calling for massive nerfs to conditions and direct damage are absurd. Currently you actually have to use active defense to survive, which is exactly how it should be.
If they brought back hexes, that could fix the necromancer in GW2.
I tend to disagree, there isn’t one thing that will fix the necromancer class. A lot of skills and traits need changing. Until the necromancer can fill more of the support and utility rolls in both pvp and pve they won’t be included in teamcomps. Basic things like projectile destruction, might stacking, unique buffs, safe stomps, on point presence, mobility and burst will always be needed. Something like hexes, which I assume would be unique unremovable debuffs, could help a lot to bring unique utility, but mesmers bring unique utility and 5-6 other things.
That was actually the original problem with dhummfire. Terror and burning together was so much damage it was worth bringing a necro, but you still needed backup to support that necro. In the recent metas, classes fill many roles, and one strong thing isn’t enough to justify a whole class (which is why you don’t bring necros currently just for boon corruption or aoe damage). I’d love to see hexes, but a lot of the base skills need to change to do just that extra bit more first.
The first problem with necro is they are a sustain class that is built like a pve boss not a sustain class. Having X amount of HP does not make you harder to kill than someone with a ton of active defense assuming people can use that active defense well. If Necros had less HP to eat through, the class could be balanced with the necessary survivability tools in this game (dodges, vigor, blocks, invuln, reflect, blind).
The second problem with necros is the really bad damage in both pvp and pve. The numbers are simply lower than other classes. Too many long cast times that don’t deal that much damage. Some people will say our damage is better in pvp because it is so spammable on autos, but as players get better at landing damage necros get weaker and weaker. Condition builds simply don’t apply a lot of conditions fast enough, I personally love that corruptions apply conditions to you because it could solve this issue, but they need to be way stronger because of their massive risk.
The final problem with necros is of course group support. Conditions will never be as dependable as boons for supporting teammates, necros healing and condition removal is more situational and difficult to use than other classes, and the class doesn’t bring any unique utility outside of boon corruption, which isn’t needed when you have regular boon strip, or boon steal.
Simply put, necros get outclasses at literally everything in this game. Since they aren’t ever going to nerf a lot of the absurd things other classes have (elemental attunement as a minor is broken), they need to buff us up to that level.
Thinking about it a little more. I would like to see chill of death removed, and replaced with a trait that made wells pulse might for 20 seconds to allies. Then make spinal shivers instant, reaper’s touch grant fury, piercing on DS 1 baseline, the vuln from that trait made as the soul reaping minor, and replaced with a trait that made skills that generate life force hit 10-15% harder.
edit: gluttony could just be rolled into the dmg trait.
(edited by zapv.8051)
Technically, the reveal on hit from the engineer wrecks a whole bunch of thief builds and utilities :o
No, the thief still has a chance of winning. The fight just becomes much harder. Diamond skin is a literal hard counter meaning some builds will have 0% chance of winning against an ele with this trait.
Well if you put all your eggs in the same basket what do you expect. You are just countered by an anti-condi build because you’re playing complete condi.
The reason eles choose to run build like that is specially because of builds like yours that just melt squishy classes.
Your not even worth responding to. I am trying to get a change to this trait so that it goes from being a hardcounter to some builds and useless to others into a trait that requires active play to get very good use, while having counterplay. Your trying to get this trait to stay the same, so you don’t have to worry about fighting against an entire classification of builds.
There is no other hardcounter in this game that exists anywhere close to diamond skin ele, vs rabid anything. Along with that, this trait is almost useless against most power builds. It is poorly designed, and changing it to grant resistance on entering earth would provide much more active play, while also providing counterplay in boon removal, and a reason to take this against power builds. You have no argument, good day sir.
As others have said, 2 thieves might instant kill you, but having 2 thieves on a team is pretty much asking for a loss. At the same time, 2 bad thief players would probably be one of the easiest 1vs2s.
Technically, the reveal on hit from the engineer wrecks a whole bunch of thief builds and utilities :o
No, the thief still has a chance of winning. The fight just becomes much harder. Diamond skin is a literal hard counter meaning some builds will have 0% chance of winning against an ele with this trait.
Generic: Either make DS an energy bar and not a transform, or lower necros base health pool. Currently, necros are too much of a wall of hp.
___________________________Heal Skills___________________________
___________________________Utility Skills___________________________
__________________________Weapon Skills__________________________
___________________________Elite Skills___________________________
_________________________Shroud Skills_________________________
Life Blast: 1 second cast including the pre and after cast time (1.4 currently). Dark path targeted instant port (necro version of Judges).
____________________________Spite____________________________
Remove Chill of Death. Replace it with something that gives us more aoe might potential. Axe dmg modifier trait on all skills. Remove down state damage, and make that minors vuln below 66% health.
___________________________Curses___________________________
Chilling darkness: 3 second chill with a 5 second icd per target.
Master of Corruption: Along with current effects, makes consume conditions grant resistance, corrupt boon corrupt all boons, blood is power give 12 might, CPC apply torment, Epidemic also apply status effects from enemies, plague siphon health.
Terror: Moved to gm, 50% damage buff
Lingering Curse: 20% duration on all condis while wielding scepter, 150 condition damage. Move down to master.
Parasitic Contagion: 15% and works through shroud.
_________________________Death Magic_________________________
Remove one of the bad minors and give us 50% vigor uptime.
Remove the other one and give us more retal.
Beyond the Viel should be aoe protection.
Unholy sanctuary should be 1.5X regen instead of 1.0X regen.
_________________________Blood Magic_________________________
Siphons still don’t deal enough damage imo. The aura should add at least as much damage as empower allies.
Unholy Martyr: Shroud 5 draws conditions from allies and grants 3% lf per condi.
_________________________Soul Reaping_________________________
Dhummfire: Switch places with the spectral trait. Maybe make the spectral trait give the effects I suggested on Spectral skills above.
Foot in the grave: pulse 1 stab every 3 seconds in shroud.
Remove gluttony, put unyielding blast their. Replace unyielding blast with a dmg modifier.
(edited by zapv.8051)
I think invulnerability would cause a lot of problems. You can already get incredible tanky. I run a power build wth lots of knights gear and corruptors favor, hell i can already survive a lot.
The problem as was said before we’re tanky 1v1 not against focus fire so at best Necros are duelists not tanks (someone else said bruisers) though we don’t excel at anything. We’re ok with a lot of things (except mobility) but not great at anything except condition management and thats reactive not proactive and useless in a lot of situations. As I said on a couple different threads, Necro’s problem is perception. Because of our 2nd lifebar we are perceived to be tanks. But we don’t have the skills to back that up. Just a lifebar that goes down and down.
If you wanna see how strong a necro with invuln is, play a Sylvari necro with the Take Root elite.
Doesn’t help in PvP which is the base for balance in the game. My main char is a Sylvari Necro and I would love to bring Take Root into PvP games but can’t.
Thus why we should have been, or should get changed to the lowest hp pool. Then there would be no reason not to give necros ample active defense, and higher dps.
lol at “HAVE TO” run cleansing water/wave as if they’re some ten ton burden traits eles need just to stay relevant.
Go ahead and look for any VIABLE Elementalist build in the past few years. Every single one has always had at the very least gone for Healing Ripple and Elemental Attunement. Right now we might be able to get away without using Arcana, but Water is pretty much mandatory unless you’re using a build that’s quite inferior.
Since the Ele has such a small amount of health and Light armor, along with the fact that we lack the disengage potential of the Thief(and the Blinds/Evades which can be properly applied when actually needed…), that makes us really susceptible to Conditions. All our cleansing is in Water, as Ether Renewal is far too vulnerable, so we gotta trait for that. Then, a lot of our burst Healing is also in Water: we get a ~2k Heal every 10 seconds just by switching to Water along with the Regen from the other traits.
Then, we go Arcana for easy Protection and Regen application(which synergizes with Cleansing Water) and Evasive Arcana gives us an extra ~2k Heal, an extra Blast Finisher, etc. Arcana synergizes really well with everything.
So now that we can take Fire without leaving ourselves completely helpless, we can have better Might stacking and Blind on Burn(which is what Fire is actually used for, not just Burning). What you get is a class going mostly into survival(hence why they’re hard to kill) and the ability to Might stack during a fight(which means our chances of winning go up the longer we fight, without losing our survivability).
I get that it sucks that you have to take a few traits to make your builds viable, but at least your classes builds are viable at top tier. To a lot of people who’s mains aren’t as strong in every game mode as ele, complaining about having to take incredibly strong traits and not having any options outside of that is like telling a starving child that your life is hard because you don’t get to eat steak every day but only a burger from Mcdonalds.
Conditions were never underpowered. As long as conditions exist on auto attacks, they’ll continue to be overpowered.
Almost every meta in the history of this game disagrees with you.
The real problem is that you can instant cast a daze, mirror blade, mind stab, mind wrack and down most people. That’s simply too strong of a burst in comparison to every other class.
It’s a stun, in builds that do this.
If it were actually a daze you could dodge all that other stuff without needing to use stun breaks or other cooldowns.
Or if the stun duration were shorter.I bring this up because, well, there’s nothing wrong with some kinda-spammable quick-casting short-duration daze. Thief’s pistol offhand has it and it’s useful but not in any way overpowered.
Also, it is probably worth noting that lots of classes have really good burst right now (including some condi builds :O ).
Right you are. If the mantra only dazed it would be ok, but having 3 instant cast stuns because of the trait is too strong in most matchups.
I agree with Malchior that it’s really only good against select builds and absolutely useless against others.
Thus why it needs to get changed to grant resistance on entering earth. It would still be strong against condition builds, but wouldn’t be blatantly broken against some of the builds and useless against other. It would also require the ele to actually use their class mechanic, and play actively to get the best use out of it while having real counterplay in the form of boon removal.
Also, to the OP. Your class is now being taken 2 at a time in pve speed runs, and pvp teams. I shouldn’t have to teach you basic statistics for you to realize that means the class needs nerfs or everyone else needs buffs. Their are problems with the base elementalist class that need to be addressed, but those problems are so far off from the problems necros and rangers deal with it shouldn’t be a priority.
Another point is that conditions are still underpowered after all these years. This is evidenced by the fact that no teams take condition builds, no zergs take condition builds, and no speedrun groups take condition builds. You can think they are OP if you want, but the facts tell otherwise.
If there was a trait that made people immune to direct damage above 90% health, the same people that are arguing this shouldn’t get changed would be screaming their lungs out for changes.
Mesmers aren’t that OP right now, but they do need a few selective nerfs. Some damage shaves, and a change to the daze trait, and they will be fine. The real problem is that you can instant cast a daze, mirror blade, mind stab, mind wrack and down most people. That’s simply too strong of a burst in comparison to every other class.
Credit for the idea goes to sagat. Also, if your an ele and would rather have the current diamond skin, which is broken op vs some builds and useless vs others, over some resistance your crazy. Just saying, making it grant resistance is a good move for everyone involved.
3-4 seconds of resistance on entering earth(30-50% uptime). On enter and exit would be too strong because with a little boon duration you could get 100% uptime, which would be op. Also, this trait hard counters most condi builds. All you people saying, why don’t you have power are missing the point. Players should be able to play rabid or settlers if they want and not have 0% chance of winning. Also, many carrion builds still won’t get the ele below 90%, eles have plenty of healing, vigor, and prot to make sure of that.
You are so wrong.
What u are talking about is pre-patch not the post-patch.
Since thief is even more squishy after the patch , 1 single mistake and you are pretty much dead.
Good necro wont get chipped,waste their ds from thief u obviously doesnt know how to play necro if u lost to a thief.
Care to explain why you think thieves are glassier now?
Good necro can do nothing about getting chipped. As long as the thief is patient he will chip you down eventually.
If you are killing a thief in wvw, it’s because that thief is bad, or overcommitted. Thieves should never ever die in wvw, and rarely die in pvp (go watch good thieves, and tell me how many times they die a game). All our aoes don’t mean anything when they can stealth and port away, spam interrupts, and blind every few seconds. A good thief in wvw will chip away at your DS till it’s gone then go in for the kill, and there is very very little you can do about it. Also, even if it where the case that necros where gods of 1vs1 they would still be tough to take on a team because of all the problems in teamfights.
I tend to think the only people saying necro is strong are people who say this based off of strictly their experience. Necros, like every class, can do great when you aren’t playing really good people. When you start to fight people who can dodge all your 3/4 second casts, coordinate burst, and use their cooldowns efficiently you start to see why necros are bottom tier. Also, most if not all of the game balance should be around top tier play (with the exceptions being things like turret engi which was simply infuriating). In top tier play their are very few necros, so clearly necros need buffs.
It is that simple, don’t overcomplicate it with things like, “I think this or that.” The common players opinion isn’t really relevant when talking about balance because the common player hasn’t learned to dodge, rotate and work with their team. There are exceptions to this rule, but in general it is true.
Having said that, necros did get some decent sustain buffs, but the other core problems like lack of stab, easily counterable damage, mobility, invulns, reflects and support are still their.
(edited by zapv.8051)
I think we should highlight that while we did initially ask for terror to be moved down that was because we wanted the old version of the lingering curses trait where it sounded like all condis would have +100% duration while on the scepter weapon set. But they nerfed the trait AND moved terror down.
That’s a good point, I’d like them to buff base scepter. Make the trait 20% condition duration on all conditions and the 150 condi damage. Move it to master and move terror up to GM and buff it in some way. Maybe straight up more damage, or more damage on interrupt, or merge in other fear related traits.
Yes, it has been a constant problem with the whole tree. While they did want us to have to make tough choices this is the wrong way to go about it. The corruption trait is definitely not worthy of being master tier, and needs to go down to adept. Terror is super build defining because it makes condition builds bursty and needs a damage buff so it can move up to gm. Path of corruption is probably master worthy.
Another problem is that their is no choice at adept tier. Both chilling darkness and the fall damage trait are super bad, plagues sending is good but even if it wasn’t no one would take the other two.
The GMs have a similar issue, Parasitic contagion doesn’t make sense as a trait. If you are getting a lot of healing out of it your already facerolling your opponents, so it is pointless. The scepter trait creates too many balance problems and the scepter as a whole needs work. I’m fine with weakening shroud, but many think it isn’t gm worthy either.
Just add protection monks, then do away with passive and uninteractive defenses.
That would be the worst thing ever, the point of this game was to do away with dedicated healers.
I’d say the first thing they should change is the scepter trait. Swap it with terror, buff terror, and change it to 20% condition duration on conditions while wielding a scepter (along with the current 150 condi damage). Then make blood, rending, and putrid curse all 7 seconds base. I’ve always though grasping dead should apply torment, so I’d change it to apply 3 stacks of torment for 5 seconds. Change the base duration of the cripple to 7 seconds. Finally, feast of corruption could apply 4 second of bleeding per condition on the target.
The game should be balanced around all levels of play, not just “high level” or “top tier” play.
The overwhelming amount of balance should be around the high level and top tier levels of play because up until that point most of the calls for things being overpowered or broken are simply learn to play issues. That doesn’t mean low level shouldn’t be considered at all, but most of the time peoples balance concerns at low levels are simply learn to play issues.
It’s a good trait, but 300 toughness and 20% extra condition duration reduction probably isn’t gonna make teams take a necro, and it definitely isn’t gonna stop 2-3 burst classes from chain ccing you to death. I’m also going to bet it isn’t as tanky as a good bunker guard, and even if it is guards bring aoe stab and other boons that make them more valuable. Hope I’m wrong, but necro bunker builds don’t seem to provide enough to the team to be worth taking.
Pretty much what Flumek said. Necro builds are decent at either burst damage(wells), sustain damage(conditions/cele), debuffs, or tanking (bunkers or cele). That doesn’t compete with other classes which can bring support, damage, mobility, and/or unique utility all in one build. Honestly, unless the fix our mobility we would have to be super op at fighting, support, and/or tanking to be worth taking. Right now we are average at those things at best, and don’t bring any mobility.
Why bring a cele necro who brings pressure, sustain damage, and decent sustain when you can bring an ele who brings pressures, sustain damage, burst damage, superb sustain, cc resistance, support, and great mobility? Why bring a power necro that bring burst damage, and pressure when you can bring a warrior that brings great mobility, pressure, burst damage, and more cc than anyone can deal with?
Both warrior and guardian hammer have had places in the meta and they are equally slow weapons. GS will be a perfectly fine weapon. Nobody will be able to everything forever like people think and will also be better cleave in team fights. Its only weakness is its prone to being kited, means rangers,mesmers and theives will be a real issue.
Warrior hammer isn’t that slow of a weapon, and has ample cc so if you land one of the ccs you can get a combo off. Guardian is similar except you can also port in with JI, and several other instants that help offset the slowness. Also, the major damage is from mighty blow which is a full half second faster than gravedigger. All the big damage skills are really easy to avoid on reaper, so, despite the good damage, it will get eaten alive by classes with a lot of dodges, blinds, and blocks. I think they tried to counter this by giving it a pulsing field, but you’ll just bait that then blow them up. Maybe I’m wrong and it will be super strong, but I see no way it will beat mesmers who have all the tools needed to counter reapers (boon removal, interrupts, and ranged damage).
I think it will be quite the opposite, no good mesmer will burn their interrupts when they are blinded, and while you have stab. With Gs, staff they will just kite you, avoiding all your highly telegraphed skills, and then burst you. I tend to think reaper, or at least greatsword, will be really weak in pvp, no amount of damage will make up for the fact that a brainddead sloth could dodge those skills. There might be a chance for reaper shroud, but I simply can’t see anything that is slow being strong in a gametype about being quick. That’s really sad because based on the damage coefficients spoj calculated greatsword won’t be good in pve either.
That would be pretty cool. Since you would now be able to use it with your regular skills, it couldn’t be too op though. Maybe they could cut the duration to 10 seconds, but make it pulse bleed, chill, blind, weakness, 3 stacks of vuln, and poison for 2-3 seconds. Basically a huge area denial. They’d need to put stab on something else for sure at that point though because plague is really the only thing we have against heavy cc, and we are already too weak to cc.
snip
Well that’s depressing.
@azel
sorry if I come off as a little rude or angry, I’m sure we agree on many things this game needs like fixes to bad weapons and utils. We probably just have differences in opinion about fixes for eles.
On this topic, how cool would it be if they made it so that your chances of getting a precursor went up the longer you went without getting one. Like a magic find bonus exclusive to precursors that increases over time until you get one.
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I’m not saying eles should be out of the meta. I’m saying it can’t be that big of a deal if they are out of the meta, when necro and ranger have been out of the meta almost the whole game and seemingly no one cares. The problem is that you can’t justify working on eles when they have meta builds in every gametype, while other classes sit on the benches in those same gametypes.
All the time I hear people say, “oh well eles have only had one meta build in pvp”. While I’m all for more diversity, you can’t really justify working on diversity for a class that is great at a lot of things while other classes can’t even perform at the minimum level to get on most teams and in most groups. Once all the classes have at least one build that is very good in every game mode, then we can talk about adding diversity and fixing up more and more of the weak weapons and utilities. Until then, any talk of nerfs killing a class will fall on deaf ears because many classes are already dead.
One last point on the state of the current elementalist. Back on June 25th, 2013 necromancers got a trait called dhummfire that put them on the map. Many considered this trait to be massively overpowered and necros received nerfs to many of their skills and this trait in consequence. Despite this, when that trait was released and for the two months where it was supposedly super overpowered, teams still only took one necromancer. Similarly, at the peak of spirit rangers, teams were only taking one ranger on their teams. Compare that to elementalists now, where teams are taking 2 at a time, and you’ll understand why elementalists need nerfs and why many people in the community feel their is blatant class bias in this game.
Quoted for truth.
snip
Reread what I said. I said very clearly eles needed a few small shaves, but that it would be ok if they weren’t in the meta for 6 months. I did not say eles should be out of the meta for 6 months. My response was to all of the eles that seem to think their class doesn’t need any nerfs (the fact is that 2 eles are being taken on many teams, which means they need a nerf). Many ele players are saying if their class gets nerfed at all they won’t be meta anymore. I was simply noting that even if that did happen it would be ok because other classes have been there for far longer. I also noted that in general the ele population is extremely spoiled in that they have been meta in every game mode for most of the existence of the game, and if they were really looking for balance those same players would be advocating for buffs to the professions that very clearly have sucked for most of the game.
I was also noting the common, problematic attitude many posters on this forum have. Namely that their class is always UP and should never get nerfed ever (as is the case with most of the mesmers, warriors, and eles on the forum recently). What’s even worse is how all these players get rewarded for their efforts consistently, and how it has brought this game down.
(edited by zapv.8051)
As with many other weapons on ranger and necro. It just needs some buffs to a few skills to be good enough. If they wanted to keep it a hybrid weapon, then they should buff the direct damage of poison volley and concussion shot. If they want to make it more condi focused something will have to be done about the auto. Either way the crippling shot needs to apply 3 bleeds from the arrow, and then the pet could apply the cripple. That or make the pets actually have condition damage.
The problem with rampage is the insane amount of passive buffs it gives. Passive damage buff means it does more damage than lich, more stab than lich, movement impairing condition reduction, swiftness, stances during the transform, rezzing and stomping during the transform. Some of that needs to go away, elites can still have an impact without giving you near immunity to half the skills in the game. Also to all the people saying L2dodge or L2kite, that’s effectively the same as saying just leave the fight. The last time a build made people do that was turret engi, and we all knew how that turned out.
Also, if you do think rampage is fine then you must also think most of the other transforms need big buffs. Plague doesn’t have as much of an impact, neither does torando or lich. I want to note, I don’t want massive nerfs to this skill, but it should have more counterplay than running away, or having a necro with plague. If it is supposed to be weak to kiting, remove the condition duration reduction. If it is supposed to be weak to cc, lower the stab to 1 stack. If it simply is dealing too much damage, reduce the base damage.
Compare ele before april 15th buff for them, eles have a reason to be “Spoiled” they were worse than ranger :P
Sucks 4 ranger that anet doesn’t know what to do with them, that doesn’t mean ele needs nerf or people cant defend ele. Burning needs (a tiny tiny tiny nerf) though & I’m an ele. When I face other eles, down to the wire their burning when it stacks high is a pain. But not detrimental to the fight most of the time.
Even if that was true, rangers have been meta in pvp for ~6 months over the 3 years of the game. They are subpar in wvw, and ok in pve. Eles meanwhile have been meta in 2 of those gametypes forever, and have now been meta in pvp for at least a year and half. I’m really tired of hearing eles say, “if you nerf us even a little bit, we will go back to how bad we were that one time.” Meanwhile, necros have been worst in pve since launch, and rangers and necros have been meta in pvp for a combined total of 8 months in the 3 years of the game.
If eles had to be out of the meta for 6 months, which they won’t be even with a few small nerfs, that’s ok. Anet has set the precedence other classes can be out of the meta for far longer than that, so yes eles are a bunch of spoiled brats. If they weren’t they would be advocating for buffs to all the classes that haven’t been meta much, but instead most are just being forum warriors for their class.
Also, if you don’t have any problem with the amount of passive procs, invulns, and damage the current cele build has you don’t play other classes. The only things that can deal with cele eles right now are mesmers, and boon corruption necros. The fact of the matter is they do way too much for a team, and do much of it too well. Eles need a nerf to some of their damage, and/or a nerf to some of their survivability or sustain. Intelligently placed shaves will keep the cele build viable, while making it less faceroll. Also, I’m all for them putting work into scepter and staff to make the skills less cumbersome in pvp.
Could work decent enough with a well build on necro. Something like this:
Necro Well Build
1) Subpar Weapons
2) Subpar Utilities and heals overall
3) Average traits
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