The problem with necros is that the class is too easy to play. Having to use dodge rolls, blocks, invulns, and healing to stay alive requires effective timing and skill. Managing a huge health pool doesn’t require the same level of skill. It used to be that necros were weaker at higher skill cap, so their ease of play was countered by the classes weakness. Now, necro is balanced or only slightly OP at high skill cap, so they are OP at low/medium skill cap because they are relatively easy to play and require skill to counter (boon strip, cc chain).
The solution is to lower their innate tankiness and force them to use active defenses like most of the other classes.
LOL, unholy martyr is hardly a support trait. In actual pvp you generally won’t be pulling enough condis to make a difference.
Well of Darkness is weak. But it is still a good skill by necro standards. There are a lot of situations where it is highly useful.
To make it better it needs a lower cooldown and possibly projectile destructrion. Also wouldnt hurt to add damage on pulse to it (Nightmare court Knights in TA have a good version of well of darkness). And Ascalonian necros in AC have strong wells as well.
Well of Power should pulse stability for allies standing in it.
Well of Suffering should get a small boost to damage and a lower cooldown.
Well of Corruption should probably apply some condition in addition to its current effects. Maybe cripple. Or torment if soft cc is too much.
Pretty spot on here. To add to this, well of blood should get a cd reduction to like 30 seconds and then maybe grant a boon or cleanse condis.
Necros need more power damage so
Well of Damage:
Deals like 40k in pvp, thinking like 100kish in pve
Unblockable
If someone is running the traited stab they are giving up damage. The elite shout is on a 90 second cd and can be avoided (blinded) to give them no stab. The pulsing stab is good, but as a thief you should use your steal skill on it then you will have stab and they won’t.
Most people don’t run the traited stab, and the other two sources are necessary because Reaper’s aren’t that mobile, don’t have invluns and don’t have extra dodge rolls or blocks. Stab is one of the least OP things about reaper.
Cause that 1050 power is worth as much damage as both the precision and condi duration especially with crit traits. You are tankier and deal way more burst damage. My soul spiral does upwards of 7k direct damage along with condi damage.
What do you mean?
Banner is Insta Revive (AOE)
Illusion of Life is also insta Revive (pseudo) (AOE)
Signet of mercy is also insta Revive
Glyph revive is also insta revive (AOE)
Signet of Undeath insta revive (Also AOE)Where is the comparison here?
Search and rescue is only 1 ally, and you need to revive them in the presence of CC, cleaves, etc.
If those are better than why doesn’t anyone use them? Oh right because they aren’t. Massive cds and massive cast times.
As for transfusion, it is a GM vs a util, it is a GM vs an adept trait.
Just one? Unholy Martyr, it is terribad. Doesn’t provide ample support for allies and the LF isn’t worth it when you’re pulling chill or a bunch of damaging condis. If it was swapped into death magic, and changed to give condi removal on allies when you use shroud 5 we might be close to a real support build for the first time ever.
Other traits that are bad in pvp:
On a power build, blighter’s boon is probably better in pvp. The problem, strictly in terms of pvp is that the bonus is rarely useful because you are already winning pretty hard when it takes effect. There are exceptions, but in general on death traits suck hard in pvp.
Twilight, cause I made Twilight.
I agree. 3 2v2 or 3vs3 tdm matchups, and a queue for tdm. 1 more conquest map. Get over the idea that it will split the community, adding things people want is how you grow the community.
I believe you can get 7 seconds of aura consecutively if all 3 of your leap finisher from the tripple leap go through a light field. Resets itself 3 times. Double elixir b gives about 90% uptime on retal. Don’t think it is really a problem though.
Offhand dagger still needs LF regen, focus is still poo, axe is still poo, gs is still poo. Death Magic and Blood magic still don’t have enough group support. I like the progress though. Our condi builds might be a little OP after this, but we will see.
Unholy sanctuary in BM would make sense. Unholy Martyr is just bad. Not only is it not that good, but it is also incredibly boring because it is completely passive. I’d like to see it changed to remove conditions or convert conditions to boons on allies on shroud skill five use. Then we might see some necro bunker builds in the meta.
Our actual healing numbers are decent. Nobody runs necro healing builds because necros provide kitten all besides that. Where is the burst condi removal? Where is the boon support? Those are requirements for bunker builds. Well of Power and well of blood need cd decreases, Death magic needs aoe prot, aoe condi removal (on Shroud 5 preferably), and Life from death needs to remove a condition.
Death Magic would be okay if it actually did something for allies. Compare beyond the veil, a GM minor, to elemental attunement, a master minor. One effects only the necro and minions. The other gives more prot uptime and 3 other boons. The master minor is also pretty bad in pvp. Only really useful when your already winning. It should be changed to give vigor, retaliation, or protection when you use shroud skill 3.
Necro’s also have pretty bad allied condition removal. Theoretically you can remove a lot of conditions from allies, but in practice it doesn’t work as well. This problem extends to blood magic as well. Life from Death for instance is just not good enough. I love the heal amount and its scaling, but where is the condi removal to go with it. Comparing directly to restorative illusions, you’ll find you heal about the same as the mes, but don’t remove conditions.
Unholy Martyr is good in concept, but requires no skill to actually use and falls apart when your drawing 20 burns or 30 stacks of torment in teamfights. I’d rather get condi removal and LF regen on an activated skill. Transfusion is really awesome because the player has to actively know when to use it.
Blighter’s boon is actually a decent trait in its current state. It’s just necros don’t have the boon application to do anything with it. The implementation could be reverted, but it would be impossible to kill necros in teamfights without nerfs. It would be better to build synergy between traitlines, utilities or weapons instead.
Eles need to go up in base vitality, thieves probably could too. Otherwise everything is fine.
My opinion is absolutely NOT.
But thats just an opinion of a necro, whose almighty 20k hp punching bag pool doesnt feel worth the non existent defensive cooldowns.
Basically,
every broken build so far,
was OP because of traits, not cz it had 3k and 200 armor more,
its them having 1-2 extra get out of jail cards (lyssa stability, ports, low CD invulns for example…)
Necro’s focus fire problems would not be solved by giving them more HP. It would come from active defenses.
Eles need to go up in base vitality, thieves probably could too. Otherwise everything is fine.
LOL, you should have to play people in higher tiers to advance to those tiers. Most games you play largely people from your division, some games you get a harder matchup against higher ranked players. That’s true of pretty much every rating system I’ve ever seen.
Just can’t understand why they are removing settler’s amulet from the game. Do any OP builds really use it?
Toughness and healing power as a combo is just unhealthy in general
How many meta builds have used this amulet over the years? I think the answer is few. Don’t see how it is an OP combo if people don’t even want to use it.
A loss is a loss, having such a close game is nice.
Remove the connection in your mind between a “high score” and PIP gain or loss.
In the case that one team has a much higher point score, but loses, it usually means that you zerged around the map, over rotating, getting decapped.
Unless you’re mostly insta-dying to superior coordination or skill, expect to lose a PIP m8
I’m sorry that is an over simplification and insensitive to the OP’s post. I’d even go so far as to say its a hypocritical statement given your pip farm in Stronghold for a couple days.
A good game is a good game, Leagues is Leagues, and they don’t sync together at all.
People are acting like they shouldn’t lose a pip even though they lost. That is the sign of a good system. This time around people climbed to easily. If you don’t know that you shouldn’t go lord before 350, you probably shouldn’t be above ruby even. The OP’s team probably figured out that they couldn’t get to 500 and triple capped.
Just can’t understand why they are removing settler’s amulet from the game. Do any OP builds really use it?
What happens is that you reach your target early, and then stop moving to account for all the little hits. The way to fix this is to make it blast immediately upon hitting the target, so that it functions well for damage and mobility. This would only function if you have a target, otherwise it would go the full distance. It would be a dps loss for pve though.
It used to apply an unstunbreakable effect, as did executioner’s scythe. They fixed that pretty quickly.
None of the meta builds use that trait. Actually for the past 2 or more years I can’t think of a single build that used that trait in pvp. The general consensus is that it isn’t a very good trait. Largely because it should give swiftness, and soul marks is better. You shouldn’t need that trait for survival as long as you position yourself well, and dodge properly.
or i can use “suffer” to clean 5 stacks of confusion…..using “suffer” is not a solution.
False, it is just a solution you don’t like. You could also use plague signet, weapon cancel when you get blinded, or use a shout with soldier runes equipped. You probably won’t like those either.
This skill is already very obvious to dodge/inturrpt and it s got long cd so yeah blinding it easly is way way overkill to a skill that already is so obvious to dodge.
Oh noes, you have to use it intelligently instead of spamming it when you want. I’m so sorry, why don’t we just give you an I win button.
That skills is not that strong. with simple stun break you can avoid it and it is elite.
Again, the skill should have counterplay. A simple stun break means that the person you are fighting is out a stunbreak, is still chilled, meanwhile you have stab.
No way in hell is a 2 second stun that applies a long chill, and grants stab in a massive aoe is weak.
I think 2 max in matchmaking would be reasonable. At 1 you can’t do matchmaking effectively most of the time. Also, agreed the 4 dh necro comp shouldn’t be that hard to beat, they are all easy to focus. Very little bunker ability, very little rez capability.
The shroud cd trait has never really been worth it in pvp. It was nice in pve for a time, but it’s pretty much useless for well managed necros in pvp. If they actually buffed the shroud traits maybe it could be incorporated into a build. Currently it just isn’t worth it.
You must have always been running super tanky builds or playing in such a way that you avoid being focused (long range battles with wurm escapes) because Vital Persistence is vital (no pun intended) for survival for most squishy or semi squishy builds.
I was speaking about speed of shadows. Vital Persistance needs to be the GM minor because it is so mandatory.
I mixed up speed of shadows and vital persistence. I was also referring to speed of shadows. The reason why Speed of shadows is mandatory is because of death flashing to tank damage. When you want to avoid a lot of damage you would step into shroud then leave immediately after to burst, this could be as short as 2 seconds. Can’t be waiting for 10 seconds everytime when fighting mesmer or revenant when not running tank.
No it isn’t, soul marks is far more useful/mandatory in pvp. You can afford to wait 10 seconds, especially considering unblockable marks give you a big advantage against revs.
It is a massively overrated change. The only way it is gonna hit super often is if you sit there spamming the auto, which means your gonna get wrecked. Furthermore, the meta seems to be shifting to burst with thieves coming back. This is very hard for necromancers with poor healing, and no invulns to deal iwth.
Yeah, I kind of agree. It’s really weird that it effects people at 1200 range. I think all offensive aspects of auras should be limited to 600 range (by offensive I mean effecting the person attacking you). The defensive buffs would still work at any range.
Yep, marauder engi is supes strong. Now let’s also talk about how OP smokescale and bristleback are with insane channeled damage.
Personally I believe that weapon swap should’ve been present on engineers a long time ago, for the same reason that the rev was given weapon swap even though it wasn’t in the initial design of the class. Not being able to swap weapons just severely limits available options and roles in combat. The only class that this isn’t true for is the elementalist, but that’s because they have attunements instead. The engi doesn’t have anything like that – kits are utility skills NOT a class mechanic and I think forcing engi into one weapon set just makes kits the only viable choice in most situations. Weapon swapping would free up space for different options for what’s supposed to be the most versatile profession in the game. All of that’s just my opinion though.
Engis have toolbelt skills. If you take two kits, you’ve got 28 skills. That’s a lot more than the rev that has 22 or 23. The class was built with kits being designed as half the weapons or more. If they had weapon swap they would have at a minimum 20 skills, but could knock that up to 36 if they wanted. That’s too much deviation to balance and literally everything would need to be nerfed slightly to accommodate that. Believe it or not engis are actually in a decent place, so why would they put in all that work to fix something that isn’t broken. Granted there are things that do need work, but that’s the same on every class. This isn’t even mentioning the fact that engis only have 3 mainhand weapons, so they would need to design a 1 or 2 more to fill that out. That is far too much work for them to put into a class that functions well as it is.
1) Elixir S is great, especially the proc, but even the regular utility is good. The stealth isn’t as useful cause stealth gyro, but if you decide to use one of the other strong elites than it can be good.
TLDR Elixir S was imba, rebalancing everything for weapon swap is too time consuming, easy engi specs do fine, L2P if you want to be god tier with the best engi builds.
alrite explain what made elixir S imbalanced
Basically, you hit elixir s, healing turret blast finish a few times, and you’ve healed for too much while invuln. Other classes cannot heal for anywhere close to this much while invuln with the possible exception of ele. That requires them to take focus, which means they don’t have the extra cleansing wave of dagger 5 in water. Their base tankiness is also much lower than engis.
It also allowed mini-engis too deal burst combos while invuln, which is something anet watches closely with both eles and mesmers. They felt it was just too much on engi, so they nerfed it.
The other reason is that eles and mesmer have resource management in attunement cd and clones. If a mes uses their invuln, they aren’t going to be able to burst instantly because they will need to resummon clones. Eles will also probably have a few attunements on cd when they pop obsidian flesh, limiting their skill use. Engis don’t have this because kits don’t have cds.
The shroud cd trait has never really been worth it in pvp. It was nice in pve for a time, but it’s pretty much useless for well managed necros in pvp. If they actually buffed the shroud traits maybe it could be incorporated into a build. Currently it just isn’t worth it.
You must have always been running super tanky builds or playing in such a way that you avoid being focused (long range battles with wurm escapes) because Vital Persistence is vital (no pun intended) for survival for most squishy or semi squishy builds.
I was speaking about speed of shadows. Vital Persistance needs to be the GM minor because it is so mandatory.
1) Elixir S is great, especially the proc, but even the regular utility is good. The stealth isn’t as useful cause stealth gyro, but if you decide to use one of the other strong elites than it can be good.
I believe the only true invulns that let players use skills are mesmer distortion effects and ele obsidian flesh. Over the history of the game these have normally been justified because ele never took focus anyway and mesmers have traditionally been too glassy to take skill use while invuln away. They are to reliant on it to survive for the short time they are in a fight before disengaging. Both classes have bunker builds that are getting nerfed anyway, so I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Elixir S skill use was taken away because they can get really awesome healing combos, and it was deemed imbalanced. The current meta build, as well as the cele build have insane sustain, and would probably be OP if you could bust out healing combos while invuln.
2) An entire rebalance of the class would be much more difficult then just balancing what is out now and the extra specs later. A lot of utilities could use buffs, as with literally every class in every gametype, but adding weapon swap just forces them to do a balance on what is already balanced. That’s way harder than balancing UP things now, which again everything else needs.
3) A really easy to play engi spec could do well in pretty much every gamemode. If you want to play a top tier build in any game type, your gonna have to learn to play it as a top tier player. That or switch to something easier, which for the majority of content/enemies won’t be a big detriment.
TLDR Elixir S was imba, rebalancing everything for weapon swap is too time consuming, easy engi specs do fine, L2P if you want to be god tier with the best engi builds.
The shroud cd trait has never really been worth it in pvp. It was nice in pve for a time, but it’s pretty much useless for well managed necros in pvp. If they actually buffed the shroud traits maybe it could be incorporated into a build. Currently it just isn’t worth it.
When reaper’s are meta, we will talk about nerfing them. Not before, not after.
Axe in its current state will never be meta in pvp or pve. Compare it to any viable long range power weapon and you will see why. It is bad dps, and bad utility. The vuln application is slow and bad, the burst skill doesn’t burst anybody, and the utility is slow and less relevant with the current rate of boon application.
Yep, resistance on swapping to earth was always the best replacement trait imo. It allowed counterplay, and was universally useful.
Kinda curious why they got rid of settlers. Condi damage, toughness, and healing power was never OP in any meta. There doesn’t seem to be a good replacement either.
More UI clutter, no thanks. Already too many things going on and this isn’t necessary.
Won’t be nearly as OP as people are thinking. Still a slow auto attack. If your boons are that valuable, you can dodge.
keep your bs to yourself, ele was trash can tier for over a year. then it became strong and now it’s back to trash can tier again.
BS, try 6 months. Eles are the biggest whiners. Necros were trash tier for 2.5 years, rangers were similar.
Speed of Shadows is an amazing trait. Frankly, I think the other options in SR are underwhelming. I don’t think I’d want swiftness so much (boon removal) as just getting 25% speed in shroud as baseline. You’re still slower than swiftness, as a necro should be for the most part, but you’re not just lumbering around trying to play catch-up if you’re not spec’ed into SR, which is already a very, very strong trait line prioritized in a lot of builds due to its Grandmasters.
Sorry but it isn’t. It has never been ran in competitive play ever. That means it isn’t a very good trait. This is because unblockable marks that grant life force and vuln on autos (along with piercing) are much better. Even if it did grant permaswiftness, which is what I was suggesting, I doubt it would be run because unblockable marks are pretty much mandatory in pvp. At least than it would be more useful in wvw and pve for map traversal. It would also open up another option for swiftness outside of warhorn, and swalk, which adds build diversity. Finally, if they remove your swiftness as opposed to your might, protection, or stab, you should be thanking them.
Configs have been updated. There should be less of a spread in ladder positions now.
Part of the reason this is happening is because this season matches on both MMR and ladder position. Someone could have a lower ladder position, but have a very high MMR. Since they have to sit around a long time waiting for close MMR players, their ladder search range is also increasing at the same time.
1. You need to test things better
2. The pip system needs to be adjusted so players don’t lose a pip when facing a premade of 4-5 players.Also what about losing pips when a team member dcs has this been fixed? Considering you’re making other changes I would hope that was a priority.
1) LOL, welcome to real software development. You probably never compliment how well everything else in this game works or acknowledge how much it is tested. When everything works, no one even notices. As soon as something breaks or doesn’t work as well as expected people rage real hard.
2) NO!!!, the fair matches can very easily happen between a premade and 5 randos. Often the people complaining the most about premades are the same people that give up as soon as they see they are fighting a premade.
Last point is valid.
Signet of Locust is fine. The dagger traits problem is the awkward cd reduction, not the 25% increase. Really what needs to change is the 25% increase in shroud trait. If that gave 10 seconds of swiftness on entering shroud it would be way better.
I actually think marauder d/w staff reaper is good in this meta.
In which League bracket?
Does it even matter? I’m only in sapphire, but yesterday my team played 4 legendaries and a diamond. I honestly don’t think the rating system is successful at all, half the diamonds I see are bad. Having said that, I would say marauder loses its effectiveness against really well played teams. Despite that, against average players marauder carries the teamfight better than anything else in my opinion. Since I normally play for home and mid, that’s what is important so I’m prolly biased. With blighter’s boon your around the same tankiness as you are in Carrion, and the burst damage is really useful for killing downed targets (which is often very difficult in the current meta).
Staff is the best pvp weapon currently, while also being least counterable due to unblockableness and 3/4 second cast times. You seem to sincerely underestimate just how strong unblockable aoes are. Your suggestion of making them pulse twice, but have weaker effects would add more counterplay and nerf the weapon. People would just walk out of the marks by the second tick.
The auto change would be fine. If you want reaper’s mark to inflict chill, run the reaper traitline. If you want the fear to last longer take master of terror. If they wanted a meaningful buff to Reaper’s Mark, they should just make it deal more power damage. Once again, I want to iterate that staff is our best pvp weapon currently. Largely because chillblains, putrid mark, and reaper’s mark are all amazing skills.
As Drarnor said, we actually need less movement speed increasing options. Not more.
I still don’t get why we can’t just use utilities in shroud. Even if they had to nerf necros, healing in shroud and utilities in shroud would go a long way.
So the conclusion is..buff the kitten gs so i can play power reaper cus i wont touch condi with a stick O.o i hope some changes are coming to gs at this point.
I actually think marauder d/w staff reaper is good in this meta.
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.