Guild Wars 2

As others have said, if this skill pulsed stab to you and allies it would be really good and might even be worth taking over spectral armor. Currently it’s super weak because it is too inconsistent of a condi removal. Have to stand in the well which makes you and your team super vulnerable to focus, aoes and cc. If it gave stab you could deal with those things a little better.

No way, protection is already the strongest boon in the game. It certainly doesn’t need to be any stronger. Also, the classes with a lot of protection aren’t exactly struggling against conditions currently (ele, necro, ranger, and guard). They just introduced a boon to counter conditions, maybe suggest adding that to specific classes instead of making the strongest boon in the game stronger.

Agree, especially about the legendary trail.

With the inclusion of nightfall, necros now have 5 skills that give a dark field. This is problematic for several reasons. One, blasting a dark field gives blind, and two of those dark fields already pulse blind making the blast finisher combo a bit redundant. Two, leaping through gives a blind but necromancers only leap already applies a blind. Finally, having 5 dark fields is a bit excessive and unnecessary. To fix this I propose that a dark aura is made and given to people who blast or leap through dark fields. This aura could take one of two forms:

Dark aura:
Foes who attack you have life siphoned from them. 250ish siphon just like the bolts.

or

Dark aura:
Foes who attack you are blinded for 2 seconds (2 second per target icd like frost aura I believe).

The final change would be to make well of power a light field, and well of blood a water field. Tell me what you think.

Nah, nightfall is good as a dark field, they just need to make a dark aura that siphons or blinds and give that to people who leap or blast dark fields. As for us having too many dark fields, changing well of power to a light field, and maybe corruption to ethereal would help.

Yes that is what he means, will be testing to see if this works correctly in beta. Basically, you can glitch out a lot of skills with the camera, leaps, but also targeted aoes like dragon’s tooth and comet. Also, you guys are just gonna have to learn to get the spacing right and land it. It will be kind of hard at first, but I’d rather L2P then have them implement a way to make it easier to land.

ZosoEU.3542:

zapv.8051:

Zoso.8279:

zapv.8051:

Zoso.8279:

SMH…… /facepalm This game isn’t about 1 spam contrary to popular belief you have to set up your attacks. You guys have already made up your mind. Your a very stubborn group. You won’t grow like this. You’ll never learn cuz you know it all.

Really guy, your the stubborn one. You won’t grow ignoring everyone else who has far more experience than you. You’ve already made up your mind that everything about necro is fine, and straight up ignore people who give valid evidence as to why it isn’t. You will never learn because you think you know it all.

More exp? Bro I’ve been playing GW since prophecies and GW2 since it was released. Stop trying to puff your chest. From what I’m seeing I’m not impressed. complaining about Focus 5 cast time and Axe DPS? Really? With the amount of vulnerability and fears we have available to us?? thats how I know you don’t know what your talking about. You and your group give each other little ego trips. Grow up.

Again with ignoring half my post, and also I am not in anyway bros with anyone who ignores facts and others opinions like you. If you think axe and focus are good you aren’t experienced, I don’t care how long you have been playing. They are easily predictable, easily avoidable, and don’t have anywhere near the dps or utility to justify either of those. Also, vuln and fears don’t make axe or focus deal good dps.

The fact that you disagree with pretty much everybody else on this forum who has spent significant time on the class shows me you’re stubborn and have a huge ego. You literally think your experience trumps not only mine, not only the people on this forum, but also the pro players who don’t take necromancers on their teams (which they haven’t for most of the game). At the very least you could give explanations as to why you think axe and focus are good, but instead you say L2P, this game isn’t about autos, learn to set things up, and generally insult everyone here. Trust me I am well aware you can do setups with fears and immobs, and it doesn’t make me want to take axe or focus because dagger and warhorn are still superior in pretty much everyway.

w/e champ. You know more. Lets wait and see what Nos comes up with next and you can follow behind and then say your good.

IDK about PvE but in PvP playing AGAINST those classes teaches you A LOT.

Don’t think I have ever said I am good, and I theorycraft all the time. I was playing cele necro at least 6 months before the june 23rd patch, and I had come up with a signet build very similar to Nos’s before the june 23rd patch even hit(I also play pretty much every build anyone ever posts on this forum, and I am not a scrub who thinks playing the meta builds is a bad thing). Playing against those classes teaches you nothing in comparison to the vast knowledge you would get from actually playing them.

Zoso.8279:

zapv.8051:

Zoso.8279:

SMH…… /facepalm This game isn’t about 1 spam contrary to popular belief you have to set up your attacks. You guys have already made up your mind. Your a very stubborn group. You won’t grow like this. You’ll never learn cuz you know it all.

Really guy, your the stubborn one. You won’t grow ignoring everyone else who has far more experience than you. You’ve already made up your mind that everything about necro is fine, and straight up ignore people who give valid evidence as to why it isn’t. You will never learn because you think you know it all.

More exp? Bro I’ve been playing GW since prophecies and GW2 since it was released. Stop trying to puff your chest. From what I’m seeing I’m not impressed. complaining about Focus 5 cast time and Axe DPS? Really? With the amount of vulnerability and fears we have available to us?? thats how I know you don’t know what your talking about. You and your group give each other little ego trips. Grow up.

Again with ignoring half my post, and also I am not in anyway bros with anyone who ignores facts and others opinions like you. If you think axe and focus are good you aren’t experienced, I don’t care how long you have been playing. They are easily predictable, easily avoidable, and don’t have anywhere near the dps or utility to justify either of those. Also, vuln and fears don’t make axe or focus deal good dps.

The fact that you disagree with pretty much everybody else on this forum who has spent significant time on the class shows me you’re stubborn and have a huge ego. You literally think your experience trumps not only mine, not only the people on this forum, but also the pro players who don’t take necromancers on their teams (which they haven’t for most of the game). At the very least you could give explanations as to why you think axe and focus are good, but instead you say L2P, this game isn’t about autos, learn to set things up, and generally insult everyone here. Trust me I am well aware you can do setups with fears and immobs, and it doesn’t make me want to take axe or focus because dagger and warhorn are still superior in pretty much everyway.

Also, if you haven’t played all the other classes you really don’t know where necro sits at all. You don’t know how much better ele is in pve, or how much easier it is to land a backstab vs focus 5 in pvp. Without playing other classes your experience exists in a bubble, and until you decide to break out of that bubble your opinions will continue to be extremely skewed.

Khristophoros.7194:

zapv.8051:

7k damage with 25 might isn’t good. A medi hammer guard could easily deal that much damage with 25 might. Also, reaper will not be sitting on a ton of might unless they run signets, which means they won’t be in zerker gear. Also, why bait and count dodges to land “big” damage on a reaper when you can take a thief or a mes and not have to worry as much about counting dodges because you actually have setups with stuns and stealth.

Reaper has a trait for might so you don’t need to do the signet thing.

zapv.8051:

My last point is that reaper won’t be great in pve, which is the gametype where necros need help the most. Even if your hitting 10k damage on gravediggers it still won’t be great dps, it would need to be upwards of 15-20k damage per gravedigger to be really good in pve and even then we are still behind the other classes in terms of support. Thankfully, there is time for input and change.

Your standards seem unrealistic. What hits for 10k with no cooldown or resource gating? Even with thief you end up having downtime.

My point is you won’t be sitting at 25 might the overwhelming majority of the time. There will be good might stacking, but not to the extent where your just constantly at 25 might.

My standards are not unrealistic. Gravedigger has a 1.25 second cast time, literally Helen Keller could dodge it. Also, that quoted damage would be for pve with pretty much every buff. In pvp, in a zerker amulet 10k would not be unreasonable considering how easy the skill is to avoid. Also, it isn’t about dealing 10k damage it is about dealing 10k dps, which a lot of classes can get to currently. It’s also the problem with reaper, if you land these big slow cast time skills you should be rewarded with more damage than literally everyone else because it was harder to land than everything else. 7k is how much dps gravedigger should do in a cele amulet with 20ish might, not a marauder amulet with 20ish might.

Zoso.8279:

SMH…… /facepalm This game isn’t about 1 spam contrary to popular belief you have to set up your attacks. You guys have already made up your mind. Your a very stubborn group. You won’t grow like this. You’ll never learn cuz you know it all.

Really guy, your the stubborn one. You won’t grow ignoring everyone else who has far more experience than you. You’ve already made up your mind that everything about necro is fine, and straight up ignore people who give valid evidence as to why it isn’t. You will never learn because you think you know it all.

Also, if axe and focus are so good why don’t any pro teams run them? Do you really think the most experienced people in this game haven’t figured out how to use those weapons? Do you really think they don’t know how to setup the skills? You don’t need to get on an ego high, you’re already on one.

Zoso.8279:

spoj.9672:

Patience only lasts so long. Reaper looked like an improvement despite not addressing any core issues. Then they basically nerf everything good about it before it gets released. Can you really blame us?

Your slaves to numbers and don’t understand concepts. From my POV. Its holding you guys/gals back.

I lol’d really hard.
Concept: Reaper is big and slow, but hits really hard meaning you will get rewarded a lot for landing the slow hits
Reality, reaper is big and slow, but doesn’t hit hard because the actual damage per second is low meaning you get no extra reward for landing slow skills

Concept: reaper will keep people in range with chill.
Reality: people will use one condi removal to remove the chill than leave if they want because reapers mobility will still be below other classes.

Concept: Necro is supposed to be a selfish class.
Reality: Other classes are better group buffers than we are self buffers.

Concept: Shouts that deal damage should have a cast time.
Reality: ele shouts deal damage and have minimal cast times while reaper shouts have huge cast times.

Concept: Necros can’t get X, Y, or Z because it doesn’t fit our design.
Reality: Other classes don’t have design limitations and therefore get things that look and feel epic.

I could go on and on and on, but the point stands. It isn’t all about the numbers, and in fact the design is what most people want to be addressed first. Having said that, in pve numbers, aka dps, are third only to team utility and player skill in importance and necros have bad numbers meaning that needs to change because it is important.

Sagat.3285:

They’ve succeeded graphically that’s for sure.

agreed, it looks awesome.

7k damage with 25 might isn’t good. A medi hammer guard could easily deal that much damage with 25 might. Also, reaper will not be sitting on a ton of might unless they run signets, which means they won’t be in zerker gear. Also, why bait and count dodges to land “big” damage on a reaper when you can take a thief or a mes and not have to worry as much about counting dodges because you actually have setups with stuns and stealth.

My last point is that reaper won’t be great in pve, which is the gametype where necros need help the most. Even if your hitting 10k damage on gravediggers it still won’t be great dps, it would need to be upwards of 15-20k damage per gravedigger to be really good in pve and even then we are still behind the other classes in terms of support. Thankfully, there is time for input and change.

Bhawb.7408:

More high quality “balance” from ANet. Greatsword is as slow as Guardian Hammer with a fraction of the damage, they loaded ICDs onto anything that might have been useful, Rise! is still garbage, good stuff all around, nothing new to see here just Necro as usual.

Nerfing the decent things they previewed. At least they are consistently bad, so we don’t have any expectations (and still get dissapointed somehow).

The biggest one is 2. With necros they always say, “but but but necro can’t have X, Y, or Z because they are necros.” No actual reason, just cause they are necros. I very rarely if ever hear them say anything about other classes not getting something because of their theme. Meanwhile, eles are getting aoe boon removal, and a cd reduction elite which don’t fit eles theme at all.

Arcaedus.7290:

In a pvp scenario, if I’m attacking someone, and I dodge their attack, I would want my pet to keep attacking. If my dodging forced my pet to dodge, that would drop my dps slightly.

Jaysin X.6740:

this has been brought up before and I’m not fan, for similar reasons as slingblade and bloodpyrope. I’d rather they put a dodge on f3 and give the pet it’s own endurance.

This. This is a good solution imo.

So a blur like effect, which I think would be easy to implement wouldn’t stop your pet from attacking right?

I like the idea to make them dodge or give them blur when the ranger dodges. Blowing a dodge to save your pet would be fine. Nike’s idea could also work really well, but it would be harder to implement. Also, I don’t see how anyone could see this as a nerf. There might be changes one has to make to their playstyle, but that would be worth it imo.

Sagat.3285:

zapv.8051:

I’d prefer they not add more effects onto things, and instead just buff the actual base effects.

That never works instead of giving back the bleed stack to Grasping Dead and Mark of Blood they nerfed it on all game modes and nerfed bleed in general.

3 more years to go.

LoL, so it always works they just never do it?

Vydahr.4285:

zapv.8051:

Just to explain why I think DS, or necro base HP (and therefore DS health) should be lowered. Everyone on this forum is asking for active defense and buffs to bad weapon skills as well as mechanic fixes. While I do feel that is justified, a necro with 40k hp, an invuln, a port, and stab whose weapons actually function well and who can use utilities in DS is really intimidating. 40k hp for 90% of the players in this game is already an incredibly daunting task, and, while skillfull play will see that health disappear relatively quickly, I don’t envision anet making it even harder for newbies to kill necros with burst. Also, before someone says it, DS is not a second health bar, but Anet treats it as one, so that is how we should treat it when discussing balancing.

By reducing the total amount of DS and increasing the rate of regeneration it would become more of a sustain mechanic. Currently, LF generates too slowly to be a proper sustain mechanic. The necro plays more like a carry right now in that you can build up 100% LF by the middle of the match and be really hard to kill (or get shutout by a thief/mes). Also, by increasing weapon LF generation necros would become less dependent on spectral armor and/or last gasp (which are pretty much mandatory in pvp right now).

So, along with natural degen, you want the LF pool to be halved…. That doesn’t seem like it will help us sustain. That seems like we’ll have our life force burned through even faster. Unless we get utilities in Shroud that helps maintain LF, you’re proposing to essentially get rid of our safety net. Death Shroud is how we tank damage. So unless we get a non-degenerating LF pool that, while cut in half, also gives us utilities in shroud including something to gain LF back beyond DS 4 or RS 1, and gives us real defensive options, I’m completely against cutting LF. Quick regen and lower pool is not sustain as it stands. We’d have to have the whole class overhauled to make that work

? again, HP doesn’t make a difference to sustain as long as you have enough to not die to the first burst. The idea is in fact that Ds would get bursted through faster, but you would also generate it much faster, and there would be more active defense (aka invulns stab, vigor, and ports) to allow you to survive burst better. We are pretty much in agreeance, but I don’t think it would take as much work as most people think. Yes it would be a lot of work, but that is kind of what most people are calling for on these forums from what I can tell (If your asking for a several different active defensive skills your basically asking for a rework imo).

I’d prefer they not add more effects onto things, and instead just buff the actual base effects.

Just to explain why I think DS, or necro base HP (and therefore DS health) should be lowered. Everyone on this forum is asking for active defense and buffs to bad weapon skills as well as mechanic fixes. While I do feel that is justified, a necro with 40k hp, an invuln, a port, and stab whose weapons actually function well and who can use utilities in DS is really intimidating. 40k hp for 90% of the players in this game is already an incredibly daunting task, and, while skillfull play will see that health disappear relatively quickly, I don’t envision anet making it even harder for newbies to kill necros with burst. Also, before someone says it, DS is not a second health bar, but Anet treats it as one, so that is how we should treat it when discussing balancing.

By reducing the total amount of DS and increasing the rate of regeneration it would become more of a sustain mechanic. Currently, LF generates too slowly to be a proper sustain mechanic. The necro plays more like a carry right now in that you can build up 100% LF by the middle of the match and be really hard to kill (or get shutout by a thief/mes). Also, by increasing weapon LF generation necros would become less dependent on spectral armor and/or last gasp (which are pretty much mandatory in pvp right now).

1) Rangers invuln is protect me, and it sucks because it instakills your pet. The signet isn’t an invuln, as it only prevents all physical damage. It is very different because they can still be cc’d, and conditions still apply. Signet of Stone is also on a long cd, justifying its 6 second duration. Warriors endure pain is similarly in need of no nerfs.

2) Burning could use a small nerf, and bleeding, poison, torment, and confusion could use a small buff. Probably back to the values they original values they had those conditions at. By original, I mean the previewed values that they nerfed for bleeding, poison, torment and confusion. Funny that they nerfed all of those that are kind of weak/average now, but didn’t nerf burning which needed it a little bit.

3) At most, the nerf stealth needs is being revealed on block, blind or evade. Even that might be overkill.

Viking Jorun.5413:

and one thing that i’m really looking forward to is: boon stacking pre matchstart will give you life force

That’s interesting. Where did you hear this? If it’s true that would be phenomenal!

The gm reaper trait blighter’s boon gives lf for every boon applied to you.

Shroud shouldn’t function as a transform in general. Make it work like a weapon and health bar swap, half the total amount of DS, and that would fix 80% of the problems with the mechanic. The remaining 20% would be skill fixes.

No thanks, it would just make all the paths easier in this mode. You can already solo most dungeon paths. This is basically asking for solo dungeon easy mode. If you want to do dungeons solo, go learn to do them solo. Grind your face against a boss until you get good at it.

I guess I could understand it for story mode, so that people can complete the relevant content, but definitely not for explorable.

Thaddeus.4891:

RSLongK.8961:

sorry now i got your question.
The point is that WAS a crit % before, and they changed it to ferocity to nerf power builds.

They didn’t change them to nerf power build. They did it to standardize the stats. They use that opportunity to nerf critical damage a bit, but it’s not the reason why they did it.

Yeah, the problem was that trinkets where giving way more percentage crit damage increase than armor and stuff because it was a straight % increase instead of a stat.

HMM, your basically suggesting they make walls 100% projectile finishers and everything else less. Maybe it would be cool if the finisher effect where based on the field structure (wall, circle, rectangle), and the field type. Everything could be more effective on the walls cause they are harder to trigger.

LOL, there would be sooooo much trolling. One instance of lion’s arch would have like 20 lupis in it.

It’s so that I can switch to well necro when I get courtyard.

^ Yes, thank you. Basically just wrote everything I think on the topic.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I don’t see how Vampiric or Beyond the Veil giving minion benefits is in any way detracting from the traits. You’re not getting a lessened benefit from not running minions.

Especially Beyond the Veil. You run minions? You get Protection. You don’t run minions? You get the exact same amount of Protection.

Yes you are. If you run minions you get protection for you and your pets. That is a far stronger effect than if you don’t run minions when you just get protection for you. It would be fine if this was an adept or master I could choose not to take, but minors should perform similarly across all builds.

Same with vampiric, if you run minions you get way more siphoning effects than if you don’t. Problem is I don’t get a choice to not take that trait. If I want blood magic I have to get a trait that is inherently weaker because I am not running minions.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

zapv.8051:

Can these all get buffed to 40 or 50 percent? 20% is not enough to be even remotely reliable. No one thinks, “let me use my 20% projectile finisher through that field,” because it isn’t reliable enough to change your play style for that.

20% projectile finishers are basically all auto attacks, or attacks that have multiple projectiles (like rapid fire). Increasing this to 40% just adds even more random passive play to the game.

They could leave it on things like rapid fire, but I don’t see how using a projectile through a field is random. I certainly wouldn’t be doing it unintentionally, and that is the opposite of random to me. Sure, there is chance involved, but at least you have to be casting through a field. I’m sure you will think something along the lines of, “but most of the time this would proc it would be random casts on random fields.” That might be true for some players, but if you intentionally use 3 autos through a field I think you should be rewarded (which at 20% isn’t the case).

Basically, I’d argue using an auto through a field should be rewarded more than just using an auto. I can certainly see how it could become a spam fest, but as long as weapon skills are significantly stronger than autos+projectile finisher it wouldn’t be.

Siva Mira.3546:

I don’t think this area is where the attention should be at the moment.

Range attack in general is amazing. And game shouldn’t be about whose team has better field.

I tend to think buffing, or changing things that are useless should be number one priority (aka 20% projectile finisher chance). Also, it wouldn’t become about who has the better field, projectile finisher effects aren’t strong enough by themselves to win you a teamfight.

Unholy Sanctuary should still heal for more. The adept and master minors need to be changed. The gm minor needs to effect allies, and minions should not count to the aoe cap. A lot of the other traits are decent, but not super good. The traitline still needs to give a few boons (aka stab or vigor), to work better as a defensive traitline. Currently, it just lowers damage taken, but that isn’t enough to justify taking it over other classes selfish defensive traitlines.

Also, it is ridiculous that they reintroduced minors that are more effective with minions. Anet, you already fixed this at one point then you reintroduced the problem. Shouldn’t have a trait that I have to take just for being in a traitline that effect utilities I’m not using. Vampiric needs to get buffed, and the minion part needs to get merged into vampiric presence.

philheat.3956:

It’s fine as it is

It would be bad for the game more burn stacks, more poison stacks, more blind from distance etc.

Then they should just remove the 20% projectile finishers on those skills because currently they are never worth using for those effects. Also, you say more burning stacks, but the burn lasts 1 second. The poison lasts 2 seconds, the blind I agree could become a problem, but they could fix that one way or another (make it a 1 second blind). I also don’t see how rewarding players for using finisher skills through fields would be worse for gameplay. Making skills worth using because they are a projectile finisher doesn’t sound like bad gameplay to me, and the added effects would be helpful but certainly not gamebreaking.

Can these all get buffed to 40 or 50 percent? 20% is not enough to be even remotely reliable. No one thinks, “let me use my 20% projectile finisher through that field,” because it isn’t reliable enough to change your play style for that. If it was 40 or 50 percent, I would definitely spam a few projectiles through a field to get an effect. Then maybe you could buff the projectile finishers just a little bit, they are kind of underwhelming.

Also, necros need more finishers. No class should have 2 finishers on all of their pvp weapons (putrid mark blast and staff auto 20% projectile chance). Especially when necros have a lot of fields to use from their utilities.

This might be a cool idea for a trait. If it was a runeset, I think mesmers would be taken after hot release. Stuff like this would really just be a bandaid on a lot of the weapons though. Necros have 2 finishers across all of their weapons, and dagger auto, life blast, warhorn 5, focus 4, and tainted shackles are the only weapon skills worth using in pve. IMO, the weapons an utilities need to be addressed before they throw in random gimmicks to make necros desirable.

As others have said, if your having this problem then this might not be the game for you. You can level an 80 with normal gameplay in very minimal playtime. If you really are brand new and want to level a char to 80 instantly, you could convert a ton of real world money to gold and craft to 80. That’s probably the biggest waste of real world money I’ve ever seen, but if you really want to get to 80 in an hour or two you could.

In general, people who +2.
Rotating
Not standing on point.
Thieves thinking they should spend all game at far trying to 1vs1, and thieves thinking they should spend all game at mid and not decap.
Bunkers that try killing npcs.

The biggest one by far though is people who run into outnumbered fights that are already lost or just run in outnumbered.

For armor, your gonna want a nice mix of soldiers, zerkers, and knights. Pure soldiers won’t be as good as something with a little crit chance because as attack goes up crit chance gets more and more valuable. Ex: with 3k attack and no crit chance you won’t do as much damage as 2.7k attack and 30% crit chance.

@ OP
The reason it hasn’t been scaled back is because of all the people in posts like these saying we need more condi clear in the game. Some classes could use more condi clear options, but individual builds don’t need more condi clear. Conditions don’t really deal more damage than power builds in any situation either. Someone in dire and someone in soldiers do very very similar damage (on occasion burning will be better dps, but no the other condis), the difference is that with direct damage you can spec for two other armor stats to do even more damage, while only having 1 more for condition damage.

The reason no one runs condis on pvp teams is because of aoe condi clear (near useless in teamfights), the reason no one runs condis in wvw zergs is because of aoe condi clear (almost totally useless). There are good 1vs1 condi builds, but once you get 2 classes with aoe cleansing pure condi builds become near useless (which is why you see cele in pvp). Now, in a regular pvp game where teams aren’t premade this isn’t an issue, but against good team comps condis become less powerful.

Egorum.9506:

nearlight.3064:

You couldn’t be more wrong.

Celestial offers higher effective health power because it gives you both vitality and toughness, having only one of those stats, even in a higher amount is nowhere near enough to be considered tanky.

Here’s my mathematic proof, assuming pvp stats and Soul Reaping with full Deathshroud
EHP Carrrion: 95,530.912
EHP: Rabid: 96,006.116
EHP: Celestial: 108,938.448

But there is more. You fail to appropriately comprehend the significance of the life force generation difference between the meta cele build and condi builds that you describe. Every way you look it at it, you can’t deny that dagger/warhorn provides much higher life force generation than scepter/dagger, with soul marks on staff being similar between the two. Feast of corruption is horrible life force generation compared to dagger autos and locust swarm. Additionally cele builds usually have spectral armor as a utility (and from the minor trait as your build would have) while condi builds typically bring flesh wurm or spectral walk instead, but regardless spectral armor brings more life force generation over time (SA has a lower CD than Swalk) and gives protection to help the necro survive more. The condi builds you survive don’t have any source of protection aside from the traited last gasp. Additionally where your build will probably want to take signet of spite or corrupt boon, the cele build takes signet of the locus which is a 1.5K per target heal (that can heal you up to 7.5K HP if used against 5 targets).

Now onto damage. The main reason that cele necro has much better sustained damage is because of death perception. Because celestial brings ferocity and power, death perception ensures that your life blasts hit very hard, in fact the damage isn’t much lower than a comparative trait set up with a marauder amulet, due to the ease of mightstacking. Cele necro has much better might stacking than a condi necro traited into spite, since cele necro will actually be able to deal good damage from life blast to proc reaper’s might, and it takes strength runes while condi builds have no might duration and condi damage rune. Additionally the extra sustain and ehp you have on cele lets you use traited dark path (arguably the base necromancer’s best skill) much more often and freely since it won’t be fragile enough to get destroyed by using it in a teamfight.

So I’ve proven that your arguments are completely and entirely wrong. Please know that I don’t think that condi necro is completely unviable, I just think that its suboptimal compared to celestial necromancer in the current metagame for these reasons, and the reasons I’ve listed above. Who knows? Condi reaper could be a thing that could very well save the concept since its sustained condi damage potential looks like it will be stronger with the right trait setup while having more survivability from certain reaper traits, but we’ll have to test it and see.

There’s zero math there? you’re just throwing out numbers lol.

Base Rabid: 19k DS, 19.5k hp pool=38.5k
Base Cele: 19k DS, 25.1k hp pool=44.1k

assuming anything past that point is null and void, you cannot predict every scenario. they dodge your dagger 2, EHP drop. you’re fighting one target, no big locust heal, EHP drop. also, i said that you’re running the same build as condi terror signets as cele signets. the only changes are PoC for Terror and the fear trait in soul reaping for decreased CD. Scepter for dagger, maintaining the WH offhand for all the reasons you’ve listed above. The only utility difference is swapping out SA for SG because you can run FitG over DP and don’t need the stunbreak. SA is great when you get jumped with no LF, nightmare runes provide the same function in an immediate peel and set up for a SG.

The sole difference between the builds in LF generation is dagger AA, which is highly unreliable. No one runs a build that requires them to stay in 180 range because it’s completely unfeasible to keep someone that close. scepter AA is ranged and deals comparable damage to cele dagger even in the ideal scenario where you can sit on top of someone and AA away.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLhZ6kGRoyGs1GwzGg/GcgLUwrOAWg4WPBfANNKjvA-TJhHwAB3fAwpAAZZgxPBAA

It’s the same build, based on the same principles. only better.

560 toughness + 560 healing power + 560 vitality is way better than 900 toughness. Signet of locust, signet of vampirism, and your regen will heal for more. Also, dagger has better lf gen than scepter. These are all well accepted facts, and the one autoproc fear for 1 second won’t make up the difference. You can think otherwise if you want, but it’s pretty dumb to say rabid with scepter is tankier than cele with dagger.

You can continue to think what you want, but the facts are that the cele build stacks might faster, has more reliable damage, and is tankier.

Roe.3679:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Roe.3679:

If necro is the “weakest” light armor class, it’s only because ele and mesmer are so strong. Necro is fine. It finally can play the attrition role it was promised, can contribute to a team, and still has all of the major weaknesses it always had.

If you don’t mind me asking, what is the necros “major weakness” cause when i play necro I feel just as strong as my ele or mesmer. They are just the only of the 3 that don’t really have a standard default rotation to approach every fight, you have to actually think which is why so many people think they are weak cause its apparently hard to think… Now I think ele needs the burning stack application tweaked (reduce stack application increase duration) and mesmer could still use some toning down on their burst and/or stun/daze intensity. But all 3 classes are in an amazing place, the same cannot be said for the medium armor classes right now.

Necro has always lacked mobility, escapes, has little stability, and it’s defenses are largely unavailable to begin a match, and said defenses don’t scale with more enemies. It all adds up to mean that if you focus a necro, you will kill it, which has always been true since launch.

They did address this a little bit with signet of locust and plagues signet being good active defense. The other stun breaks don’t do anything to prevent future stuns (ports, or stab), or get you out of immobilize cc chains. I’d like to see them make spectral armor lf per hit no icd with 3 stacks of stab, well of power pulse stab, and spectral walk give you immunity to soft cc. Then they need to fix a lot of the weapon skills that suck (axe, scepter, offhand dagger, focus, dagger 2, staff 1, life transfer), and the weak utilities (minions, corruptions, spectral wall, spectral grasp, well of darkness), and disorganized or weak traits (curses, death magic minors, siphons getting real scaling with stats). Anet really needs to fix all the weak traits, utils, and weapons on every class as part of this expansion, or after this expansion.

They need to bring back some of the longbow builds. If the healing and condi removal on shoutbow prepatch was just nerfed a little bit it would have been fine. I don’t think the problem with warriors is too little damage, or double endure pain. The real problem is that their cele builds are pretty much dead. Maybe a few of the weapons need buffs (mace), but otherwise it’s an issue with utilities or traits for most builds.

The thing is, necros finally got a good set of utilities, and there are two really broken proc traits (chill of death and plagues sending). That, and the absurd amount of health is why cele necro is good. Condi necro is inferior to cele necro in pretty much every way, and power necro has the same focus fire problems it has always had. I guess my point is that the cele signet build is pretty strong, but the class still has a ton of design problems and it’s arguably only strong because of auto-proc kittens.

Also, still worst class in pve since launch, really would have hoped they would have made a real attempt to fix that at some point, but I guess 3 years isn’t long enough. You can say it is only for 1% of players that speed run, but anyone who has used lfg knows that isn’t true.

The problem with condi necro, or at least terrormancer, is that it’s “burst” and disengage is inferior to the meta burst builds in every way. Why take a terrormancer when you can take a mesmer or a thief? The only thing I could come up with would be boon corruption, but that isn’t worth the mobility, utility those classes provide.

Cele necro is better at almost everything compared to condi nec. Burst damage, sustain, sustain damage, and might stacking cele necro is better. For condi necro to be good again, scepter needs significant buffs, offhand dagger needs LF gen, and terror needs to be GM and deal 1.5k damage per tick in a condi amulet (or another way to get more damage out of it).

Silverkey.2078:

The spectral trait could add "evade attacks during 1s after activating a spectral skill.

Or they could just make spectral walk evade attacks and reduce it’s duration to 4 seconds base.

duster.7013:

livlaender.8790:

today i played a game with my engi and i got 5 rampages in a row

i was surprised, though

A joke? That’s never happened to me in my humble 100 matches, heck that’s not even happened across matches or while in heart of the mists.

Maybe have a positive attitude about it. Positivity can effect rng.

Shiki.7148:

Zenith.7301:

A little damage boost? Axe autoattack needs at least 900 range and close to a 50% damage increase.

Also remove retal from it, retal is useless as a boon, especially in PvE. Give it something useful like vigor or fury per opponent hit.

Axe AA needs to be lower DPS than Dagger though. Even if it doesn’t cleave , on 900 range there should be a DPS difference. However, the burst skill on Axe (#2) needs to be a lot harder hitting instead.

I’m pretty sure even with a 50% dps boost axe auto would still be behind dagger auto.

Gold, and gems, that is why.