(edited by sneakytails.5629)
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Recent changes have actually hurt Axe/Axe, it feels sub-par right now.
The change to Axe Mastery was huge as it gave a Axe/Sh user the same offensive stats as a Axe/Axe user.
It used to be the other way around, the player who decided to dual wield had the 300 higher ferocity, which made sense, that player was giving up the huge defensive boon of the shield to gain more offense. This made Axe/Axe hit harder than Axe/Sh.
Not anymore.
Now you can have everything without trade offs, you can have a great defense combined with a strong offense. No reason at all now to even take Axe/Axe, the Gs – Axe/Sh meta has only further been encased in stone.
On my main and some other warrior builds I run I take Destruction of the Empowered, not Cleansing Ire.
Everything is full offense trait and Sigil/Rune wise, I deal with condi through SoH, SoS, and BesP, positioning and the use of ranged pressure are used as well.
I would rather hit hard and slice through that condi cheese than rely on sustain which is easily kited/interrupted or just flat out overwhelmed.
Yes.
But Anet will have to force the issue by making other weapons competitive, the mobility that GS offers is hard to give up though, its part of what allows fighting outnumbered like that.
The axe buffs only cemented its place as the weapon swap of choice of so many of these builds.
We will probably even see GS toting Spellbreakers.
The ball is in Anets court, its kind of clear that some of the weapons still need looked at for the Warrior. Fortunately we have some bigger patches still coming up.
And then here comes dead-eye with the ability to remove reveal, the only real counter to stealth……
There should always be a counter to stealth, its the most powerful mechanic in the game. Allowing a class to complete negate its counter when its needed most is just bad design.
The second most powerful ability is movement, something the thief could always use to counter reveal.
Now its just flat out stupid with the teef now keeping its stellar mobility and the ability to cancel out reveal. I see thief’s taking dead-eye just to run builds off that premise.
I think zerker is fine, I tend to run mostly zerker with some marauder pieces thrown in for some added vitality.
I tend to run two different directions along with my zerker gear, I run 17% damage reduction on my more melee driven builds, and I use more damage oriented runes on my builds that have better kitting ability.
The only problem that I am seeing right now are the extreme builds that can throw up block after block, or spam blinks, stealth, or anything else in a copious manner. That’s what screws over zerker builds. You simply will not get a full burst off.
It’s seems clear to me that the devs do not want this situation where Berserkers, Spellbreakers, and core warriors all choose the same traits, or a situation where all of the most powerfull traits can always be chosen.
Right now there’s are real trade offs and big decisions one must make when choosing your spec, that is how it should be.
You must of have missed this part.
I think you’re living in some fantasy of your own where elite specs aren’t an objective upgrade over core in the overwhelming majority of cases. Even in the cases where it WASN’T are getting rectified with PoF: see cranger > soulbeast and crev > renegade.
The reality is that anet intends for elite specs to be equal to each other, but an improvement over core.
Yes, Elite specs are an improvement over core and that’s fine. What I am arguing here, is that when a player does choose an elite spec you gain very real power over core, but you loose a little choice in play-style. (like taking every trait you really want)
Core gains freedom of choice (fast hands) because it does not have access to the special elite traits and skills.
That seems perfectly fair to me.
It’s seems clear to me that the devs do not want this situation where Berserkers, Spellbreakers, and core warriors all choose the same traits, or a situation where all of the most powerfull traits can always be chosen.
Right now there’s are real trade offs and big decisions one must make when choosing your spec, that is how it should be.
You must of have missed this part.
No.
This choice between discipline and strength acts as a counterbalance on the elite specs allowing core warrior to have a place.
Core warrior gets freedom of choice, and Elite specs gets powerfull abilities that core will never have.
Giving all warriors Fast Hands baseline only waters down core and makes elite specs feel mandatory.
It’s seems clear to me that the devs do not want this situation where Berserkers, Spellbreakers, and core warriors all choose the same traits, or a situation where all of the most powerfull traits can always be chosen.
Right now there’s are real trade offs and big decisions one must make when choosing your spec, that is how it should be.
With the new hybrid stat gear coming out in Pof I will finally be able to run both Condi Longbow and Power Rifle in the same build, so definitely looking forward to that.
Really want to run that in a small group. Double quickness, unblockables, full mofo damage utilities and traits.
I just wanna be a condi kill-shot scumbag.
(edited by sneakytails.5629)
I like rifle just fine, but then again, I tend to adjust my play-style to the weapon (weapon swapping to it on my main and getting a good killshot on a enemy kite) , or I will run a specialized build for it. (quickness rifle, and play the 2nd line support burst role in a group)
There are weaknesses however, you have to adjust, or get punished for it.
Its not a 1v1 weapon unless key things are in play (situational), forget about dueling, any competent player will not allow you to use it to full effect in a duel.
I am pretty happy right now with 15k Killshots, 10k Volleys, stacking some decent vulnerability and weapon swapping into a 15k Eviscerate, etc.
Yeah, pretty much.
I have to hope a good player on GS makes a huge mistake when I am fighting them on a non GS build.
And since the good players really dont do that, I pretty much end up on the ground. Even though I do not really like GS it really is the strongest weapon we have, I am hoping for some more weapon buffs for other weapons like what Axe just got recently, but we will see.
I have had some success with sword but it really is so much more situational than GS.
On behalf of all Warriors past, future, and present, I would just like to say that there are not enough videos with Warriors using GS/Shield+Axe or Mace.
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keep making more…
For the last time…..
Daggers have been a staple of the warrior class for over a thousand years, across cultures, nations, languages, and religions.
They have been found in warrior gravesites, battle fields, and ancient texts.
Along with the sword, they are part and parcel of the warrior ethos, and mythology. Above all though, we know from history that warriors carried and used daggers.
This weapon choice fits the class.
End of story.
I dont discriminate.
Ughhh save urself the trouble and don’t bother. I tried running vanilla gunblame with the recent buffs/nerfs and it was pretty horrible. The damage IS there no doubt about that. But relying on killshot isn’t practical at all. 1. its slow and it makes you a huge target. 2. its very hard to land on a moving target since u are stationary and the projectile isn’t fast so it often parabola’s wrong and misses. 3. there are so many blocks that you have to time it with ur unblockable….and considering how often ur likely to miss its hard not to waste ur unblockable. 4. you will feel the need to land the burst on anything so long as it grants the 21% dmg increase…..making the whole idea of killshot laughable.
I dont find Killshot laughable, and neither do the many peeps I have stomped who did not respect the rifle. Both my Core Axe/Axe-Rifle main, and a second Core warrior who is built around Rifle specifically (Rifle-Sword/Shield) do well enough for me not to drop it outright.
Killshot becomes much stronger when you use the rest of the rifle, and especially your 2nd weapon set and get good setups.
Some of my best killshots are on thiefs too.
Not only that but with so much projectile hate in the game it can be difficult to even land a ranged burst sometimes.
Plus there are the wonky bugs happening with ranged attacks that seemed to skyrocket after the last few patches. “Obstructed!”, “Out of Range!”. Really? the mofo is standing right in front of me!
Longbow is even worse.
I also agree.
I dueled one with my main (a core warrior) this weekend and whenever the 3/4 and full counter combo was landed at least once it was usually a loss for me. But whenever I landed a big Eviscerate (12k+) or Killshot (11k+) I usually won. Pretty close most of the time and it was fun.
Its strength’s are countering your opponents through smart play instead of big bursts and that is interesting.
Like what was said earlier, once the community gets better at the timing and more theory-crafting starts happening then it should get a lot stronger.
Hopefully its a placeholder, I am sure more work will go into the new elite specs.
Well I ended up dueling a Spellbreaker in WvW about 6 times while playing my Main Core Axe/Axe – Rifle Warrior.
It was about 50%, the fights were pretty close, I was doing way more damage to him than he was to me but SB has such a great pivot point under Full Counter. He was able to reset better, and turn the fight around.
I felt like rifle was hurting me in that situation, he also had dual endure pain traited, I did not. I do not really rely on boons too much in 1v1’s on that particular character I was playing but throw in another enemy condi player and the SB gets really powerfull, really quickly. I feel like SB will really shine in organized group play.
Overall I expect SB to start doing a lot better once the warrior community starts to get the timing down on Dagger 3, 4, and the Full counter. I also expect their to be some buffs incoming for both SB and Berserker.
The access to the stealth class mechanic is a major balancing factor here, and that is why there must be counterbalance through trade offs like mobility.
The range, projectile speed, and good damage are all fine considering the above.
Other classes rifle also have slow attack speed, obvious tells, and movement issues of thier own.
There is no comparison, deadeye is leaps and bounds better at the weapon and role.
Rifle/Longbow could also be interesting for an all ranged Hybrid option, I could see that working really well in small groups. Definitely going to have to try that, might have to have two weapon sets on that character.
One of the new things that interests me is the new stat combination coming out for gear in PoF.
Power
Condition Damage
Precision
Ferocity
So this has got me thinking about moving my pure Condition damage Trailblazer Berserker over to these stats (and possibly going Core as well), I really do like to use power skills more, but this would help alot with other skills that are condition oriented when used in the same build.
I am thinking about either Macebow or Axebow. I always felt that long bow was a stronger condi weapon than power, but now the second weapon set can be power oriented to play off the longbow. Fighting in the fire fields could be pretty powerful.
Overall it looks really interesting. Doing good physical damage and having a strong bleed and burn potential could be pretty strong.
Any others looking forward to going Hybrid?
I think I can.
Basically, what’s happening is that elite specs are being turned into OPTIONS for characters, rather than straight upgrades. Even Spellbreaker is limited to TWO adrenaline bars, which means it STILL won’t have the sustain of three bar bursts. It’s a good direction for the game to take, even if it has immediate consequences that are difficult to predict.
Well said, that seems like what is happening.
If you are god awful at reading opponents, a good warrior will and should wreck you.
Anyone worth their salt has no issue making me work for every single CC way harder than the crazy gap closing teleports and disengage and mini tells other classes have.
Very true and its one of the balancing factors for the class, a lot of peeps forget this. With good play you can beat Warriors, esp Beserkers. Lately I have been running into players who dont even dodge roll or make any attempt to mitigate damage. To that crowd we seem like nuclear charged greek gods, but we clearly are not. Just pay attention and react to the insanely easy to spot visual cues, lol.
This nerf was unjustified, and it should be reverted or adjusted.
With that out of the way, some people seem to forget that there always was a balancing factor against the power of the Berserker Elite Spec and that was less choice in your 3rd trait line.
Not a bad idea at all, it’s a good thing to have more options for linking together bursts.
Adding synergy Between Final Chop and Throw axe is also a good thing, because the cripple alone does feel rather weak at times.
I tend to use my AA when my other skills have gone on cool-down after a burst, I also use AA when I am purposefully trying to save a burst for the right moment, going through the AA sequence buys me the time I need in both situations.
What I really like about this idea is that functionality does not break, while we gain more tactical use from axe AA which is great.
Really good idea.
Whenever I roam with my Axe/Axe main it comes down to my second weapon set choice more than a few times. There are certain classes and specific builds that totally negate the major perks of using axe. So it comes down to how much I can compensate with the second weapon set.
Some of that is just the whole roaming thing, you never quite know what you are going to end up against around the next sentry or camp.
I would think with more time to make skill bar changes and swap weapon configurations then you could really push dual axe pretty far in WvW.
Core warrior is quite fine, WvW wise anyhow. Disc, Def, Str, Signet of Rage, Bulls Charge. More adrenaline than cool down can handle.
Pretty much this.
My core Warrior main uses Axe/Axe – Rifle or Sword and Shield and is performing better than ever. I was a bit worried about loosing Burst Mastery, but with some Sigil changes I have made up some of the loss. Berserkers Power is definitely worth it, and feels like a great perk for going core.
Almost seems to me that Anet is trying to move Berserker to a more condi spec and using Spellbreaker for the power warrior elite spec.
Then you have core that offers more choice, and quality of life features, but with less elite benefits.
I am fine with this.
To me this moves the Berserker elite spec to even more of a condi focus, with the freedom of stat selection that condition builds enjoy, any deficiencies can be made up with gear selection. They also have more freedom to spec for condi clear and larger heals on their skill bar.
I always considered core warrior to be the more consistent power spec anyways with Beserker tailoring itself towards stronger condi.
Core warrior is looking even better right now. I am glad I main one.
For how I play loosing burst ability, but mostly frequency is a big deal. The recharge on my burst from Burst Mastery was a major part of my build with the tie to Adrenal Health. This is why I run core warrior so I can have both Strength and Discilpline lines.
Discipline lets me grab Versitile Power as well, further adding to the greater burst ability I have.
You are right about the damage difference, But loosing out on my burst ability is far worse. If Axe Mastery does indeed go where Mercililess Hammer is now then I will have to drop at least one required trait.
For me damage is not everything. cool downs are important as well as my burst ability (frequency).
Please don’t move axe mastery to where merciless hammer was in the discipline tree!
I can’t afford to choose between that and Burst Mastery. Axe/ Axe requires both to even remain even slightly competitive to Gs.
Leave them where they were please!
Daggers were the most commonly carried sidearm during the middle ages, they were used by everyone including knights who regarded them highly. They could feature blades up to 12 inches in length, that’s massive by today’s standards.
Men at Arms and Knights trained themselves in using daggers in both offensive and defensive ways. They were often life-savers in battle, hence their popularity among the fighting classes.
Long knives or daggers were used by almost every fighting nation since ancient times, and still are used today.
I think that qualifies as a true warriors weapon.
I disagree.
One of the few things propping up core warrior right now is the ability to run strength and the discipline line along with defense.
Beserkers are forced to choose: do they want more damage output (strength), or utility (discipline). Making that hard choice is good for the game and levels out fights between core and elite specs. Having to make that choice IS the trade off for gaining so much from your elite spec.
You dont need to get even more stuff for free, and god forbid a core warrior should actually have an advantage over you in a fight.
Just another attempt to push the elites even further ahead. Core warrior gains choice for the huge losses by not taking the elite spec, that seems like a fair trade-off to me.
Here is something close to what I run, there is always room for changes on food, runes, traits and skills. so try it and see what you like. The Sword adds mobility and another burst option through Eviscerate, weapon swap and Sword 3. Its another high burst option you have, and done properly, you can get close to 20k in just a few button presses.
I pretty much main Axe/Axe but in WvW, its pretty much the same idea though (burst). I run Marauders armor with Berserker everything else. Axe is a very bursty weapon so running slightly on the glassy side really brings home the damage. I personally feel like its too weak of a weapon when running too defensive, so avoid too much of that.
I generally run core warrior, but if you choose not too that’s fine too, I find the strength line to be a great boost because I like to run Axe Mastery, I feel it does make a difference for axe centric builds. Its harder to run the strength line when you are a Berserker, they generally run Berserker, Defense, and Discipline.
I like to run Strength, Defense, and Discipline on my core warrior. I get more quality of life stuff like Axe Mastery and damage from my dodge rolls. But that’s a personal thing for me.
Since I am WvW most of the time, I tend to run defensive scrapper runes in my armor. Mostly due to not having a Shield. In open world you can most likely go offensive, even more so if you run with Friends.
I also like to run Sigil of Strength in my offhand axe and charge up the might stacks with Axe 5. I almost always dodge roll for the extra 10% damage (Stick and Move) after axe 5, and then I hit Eviscerate. It hits hard doing this. That makes for a nice little burst.
When I combine this combo with Axe4, Axe 2, Axe 5, dodge roll and then Eviscerate it really does do a nice burst. Remember to pop anything that gives you more might before the burst as well.
I also run Sigil of Cruelty on my 2nd Weapon set, and I try to always have 25 stacks whenever possible. With good timing of Signet of Rage, you should have the CHC to take advantage of the extra ferocity.
For food I tend to run a power sharpening stone and mussels Gnashblade for some extra damage reduction and boon duration, again mostly due to WvW and no Sheild. Feel free to experiment with others.
The one real big negative with Axe/Axe is the short range and lack of a Shield, I like to balance those weaknesses with my 2nd weapon set. I really like Rifle in certain match-ups, and Sword/Shield in others.
Besides the armor and weapon stats, Axe Mastery is a must though, with 5 axe skills on your bar, the longer cool-downs when not running it make the weapon set feel so kitten slow. Having shorter cool-downs make axe burst so much better and that’s really what the weapon is about. (and the amazing cleave potential)
Have fun with it and feel free to experiment. You should have more room for that in PvE.
(edited by sneakytails.5629)
I agree it does look amazing, its going to be so much fun to hunt mesmers, thieves and anything condi.
I am wondering though, if there is a trait that grants bonus damage for boons removed from yourself, sort of like a reverse Destruction of the Empowered?
Is there is I am wondering if Rune of Lysssa would act as a nice damage buff for a burst?
It would be a condi’s worst nightmare!
Something that is going to work well I can tell already will be for the Deadeye to shadow a freindly group and take good shots during the combat the friendlies create. I tend to do that will kill-shot already, deadeye will do it even better with its toolkit.
The increased range, stealth abilities, de-buffs all look insane.
There are serious trade-offs for movement, and sustain, but with good situational awareness and decision making, its going to be very power-full.
Of course there is also the hybrid aspect of the other trait lines to consider. I am not a Thief player yet so I will let others do the theory-crafting.
Personally I plan on taking the full out damage sniper approach, like my warrior is built for. The thief stealth and utilities will actually make that possible, I wont have to take the defense line just to survive like on my Warrior, that always hurt my damage. The Thief will not have that problem.
Spellbreaker does look like somewhat of a counter with its insane reveal, I plan on playing both and that should help my game-play on each at a faster rate. It does look like fun to hunt some deadeyes, it could be a really fun cat and mouse sort of thing.
Looks like mostly little bits and pieces of the traits and utilities, the recent vid by wooden potatoes was kind of a ok first glimpse. I am sure more info will come out soon as more streamers get access to this content.
I also enjoy killshot and since I main Warrior its something I use pretty often on my main toon. The funny thing is my favorite target to one shot are Theif’s, it never gets old.
This is basically Killshot Warrior on lethal levels of steroids.
What will be the fate of core Warrior post expansion #2?
I personally play a lot of power Core Warrior, (I have 3 core power and 1 berserker condi) I enjoy the variety in builds that are possible, but there is a pretty big loss on damage, and sustain by not going the elite spec route.
Its noticeable, and I am pretty sure I am loosing fights over it. While that does not bother me too much right now, I cant help but think will experiences like these only increase with so many more elite specs running around.
Does that make core fall even further behind?
I have not heard ANET’s thoughts on the subject, so I do not know their thought process on the core vs elite issue, but I cannot see the issue going away post expansion #2, I only see it getting worse.
What can be done if anything?
I feel like at some point there should be some stat boosts for any class who decide to go Vanilla and not choose any of the elite specs.
Yeah roaming with a friend is a lot more enjoyable than solo. If I do roam solo I fully expect to come across plenty of Hot cheese builds, I set my expectations accordingly.
I try to focus more on defense of camps , and running yaks when solo. It’s not very often I find single fights that are equal so I just play what I want and try to have fun.
Yeah, some of my biggest hits are on Druids, not sure why. That is a pretty big non-crit strike though.
My goal is to make a montage of big hits so I have been making clips too.
Gonna have to make a special edition teef one shot video though……oh yes!
My main is a power Warrior that uses mainly Axe/Axe and Rifle, with some Sword and Shield thrown in to replace the dual axe setup. Both versions are core warrior, fairly glassy, and use Destruction of the Empowered. I would consider a 8k Eviscerate, Kill Shot, or Final Thrust a disappointment.
I have hit 13.5 k Eviscerates, 14.5k Kills Shots, and 12k plus Final Thrusts. Power builds are entirely capable of landing such big hits, and good players can chain them together and do it at the perfect time. They hit like trucks if you build them to do it. You sacrifice a lot, but the damage is definitely there.
My build is not a roaming build though, its a build meant to run with at least one other and to burst at the best time. Roaming builds must be way more durable, they have to face multiple threats at once fairly regularly, this means they generally do less damage.
Power builds like mine punish mistakes very heavily, where a good roaming build will have more cushion to help reset/keep fighting. Still, power builds in general are less generous to mistakes then meta condition builds are right now.
Right now, Condi is incredibly strong, the stat advantages are just too good. I prefer power though, its just far more satisfying when the burst does land.
I modified my main to include a healthy amount of quickness, I ended up dropping the skill bar Endure Pain ( I still have it traited) and I replaced it with Beserk. One of my weapons also has Sigil of Rage and I have Heightened Focus traited as well.
I dropped my Beloved Axe/Axe, I cannot stomach the 50% speed bug any longer, last night I was really getting frustrated and loosing way too many fights, without the speed boost I cannot chase anyone down, or do any serious body hugging.
So I picked up sword and shield to supplement my rifle. I now have much better mobility and two immobilizes. I am sitting around 30% boon duration and the quickness uptime is making Shield Bash feel pretty good along with the rifle.
I am pretty happy with how the Sword is performing with Quickness and my medium amount of Boon Duration. I am finding Final Thrust under quickness to be so much more reliable for my burst than Eviscerate (which could not be effected by quickness) can be in certain match-ups, especially Thieves. Now that I dropped my Axes and Axe Mastery I was able to trait Berserkers Power for even more damage.
Of course the Shield made this all possible by being able to drop Endure Pain off the skill bar and slot Frenzy for the quickness boost.
Its a incredibly strong pivot point, dual wielding anything feels incredibly weak by comparison.
I can’t wait for the new spec to come out, it can’t get here soon enough. I really hope its a strong anti-mesmer, thief, and ele skillset.
Its time to go HUNTING.
I modified my main to include a healthy amount of quickness, I ended up dropping the skill bar Endure Pain ( I still have it traited) and I replaced it with Beserk. One of my weapons also has Sigil of Rage and I have Heightened Focus traited as well.
I dropped my Beloved Axe/Axe, I cannot stomach the 50% speed bug any longer, last night I was really getting frustrated and loosing way too many fights, without the speed boost I cannot chase anyone down, or do any serious body hugging.
So I picked up sword and shield to supplement my rifle. I now have much better mobility and two immobilizes. I am sitting around 30% boon duration and the quickness uptime is making Shield Bash feel pretty good along with the rifle.
It always seemed to me that Final Thrust should have been the Sword F1 instead of what we have currently.
My main uses axe/axe and either longbow or rifle on weapon swap, so I tend to run endure pain and scrapper runes as a reasonable substitute for a shield. Sometimes, I will swap other skills in for endure pain if I feel the matchup/situation needs it.
I feel like it leveled the playing field for Warriors who do not run meta. Now there is a opening to push back against.
The only problem is that it came through a nerf.
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