Guild Wars 2

Lahmia.2193:

tinymurder.5791:

At this point, I think the biggest holdup is that it was designed for the old town clothes system. They’d have to redesign the items as a set of skins, an outfit, or a tonic. Tonic would probably be easiest, but least liked. A set of skins or an outfit would be more popular but more complicated, due to the need for color channels.

It’s probably on someone’s to do list, but with a low priority. I hope they get around to it sooner or later. I’d buy it.

An outfit would be pretty easy. I mean that’s why they switched from making armour to outfits in the first place. Ease of creation.

I agree that an outfit would be fairly easy. Maybe not as simple as making a tonic, but still not as difficult as making a new armor set.

At this point, I think the biggest holdup is that it was designed for the old town clothes system. They’d have to redesign the items as a set of skins, an outfit, or a tonic. Tonic would probably be easiest, but least liked. A set of skins or an outfit would be more popular but more complicated, due to the need for color channels.

It’s probably on someone’s to do list, but with a low priority. I hope they get around to it sooner or later. I’d buy it.

what the heck? Really Anet, you felt the need to censor the letters ch? I wrote c h i c k e n, and it came out kittenicken. I will never understand their censor algorithm.

Randulf.7614:

There is a lfg sub section for rpers. Mostly they stick to various RP specific Guilds afaik. I see a few every now and again out in the open world, usually in lower level maps.

Yeah, I saw the LFG thing, but haven’t seen anybody advertising on it yet. I’m a little kittenicken about making my own add, but I’m gonna give it a go, I think.

I recently came back to the game after about a 8-9 month break. I used to see RPers down on the bottom level of the Grove and occasionally just outside Divinity’s Reach. Now, I haven’t seen anyone roleplaying anywhere. I know the whole megaserver thing messed things up for the roleplaying community, but I thought they were still around, but I can’t find them.

Lampshade.7569:

How about an NPC that exchanges Gift of Exploration for full reveal and all waypoints (no exp)?

I like this suggestion, and recommend that you repost it on either the CDI Forum, or see if the community development thread is still active.

This is a feature that I would appreciate. I’m not saying it’s a dealbreaker if it doesn’t get implemented, or that I need it now, but it would definitely be very handy. Especially if you like PvP, dungeons, and raids.

My issue has more to do with the fact that I have world completion, plus extra hero points from the skill point conversion(back when you kept earning skill points for leveling past 80) and I skill don’t have my elite spec full unlocked. My only hope, is getting the hero challenges in HoT done, which is difficult, since VB is usually empty when I get online and the require more than one person to do.

runeblade.7514:

Not a complaint thread. Just looking to l2p.

So I decide to get off my ranger/necro/dragonhunter/chronomancer/Revenant and play with my zerker warrior.

I can’t leave waypoint without dying. All mobs kill me at sight.

…lol, Runeblade. Stop trolling the new peeps who don’t realize you’re been on this game since launch.

ProtoGunner.4953:

A guild hall is for a guild, not for 3 players. Also, the guild hall is not much content, it’s just a huge area with nothing in it (well with fluff in it if it’s filled with… fluff like a chair you can’t even sit on).

Besides the +% food the tavern guy gives me, and cheap transportation to the Magus Falls, I don’t need it.

You’re correct that a guild hall isn’t content. It is, however, the gateway to the full potential of a guild. My small guild(~20 players with 3-6 active each day) can’t build the perks we used to have, because we don’t have a guild hall. We don’t have a guild hall, because we don’t have the guild favor. We can’t earn the guild favor, because there aren’t enough of us on at the same time to complete any of the guild missions. OP is upset, like most small guild members, because we have had abilities taken away and put behind a wall we can’t scale on our own.

Fortunately, there is a workaround. There is a thread on this forum for small guilds that are banding together to help each other unlock and improve their guild halls. This is an excellent idea, and one that showcases the community spirit that I love about this game.

They should make glider skins for all the winged back pieces. I don’t have the shattered holographic wings, but I’ve been wearing the regular holographic dragon wings on my warrior since I got them, & I’d love to use them as a glider.

Raedwulf.3712:

tinymurder.5791

I really hope your programming skills are amazing, because your interpersonal communication skills leave a lot to be desired.

Whilst your’s are just dandy, are they? Several misguided lectures & two insults in two posts. When it comes to words, I know what I’m talking about. You’re welcome to your different opinion. When it comes to programming & QC, I also know what I’m talking about. You’re welcome to your different opinion.

As for programming, actually I’m no better than competent in my (obscure) 3G / 4G database language. Analysis is my forte. And communication, because that’s what an analyst has to do…

I never claimed to be the great communicator. I also didn’t claim that two words mean something different from the accepted definitions of those words. So, when it comes to words, you don’t know what you’re talking about. I can also say that you’re posts have been inflammatory, insulting, and come from a position of ignorance. You talk about the non-video game side of the computer industry as being the only valid computer industry, which is nothing more than your opinion. You complain that proper QC should have caught all the bugs in the expansion, as if Microsoft or Apple have never released a flawed product that has to be patched. You admit that you have no experience with producing video games and are merely competent as a programmer. You do acknowledge that analysis is your core competency, which I will take at face value. Somehow this qualifies you to make broad generalizations about a field in which you have zero experience.

If this is an example of your communication skills, how am I or anyone else supposed to take your analysis seriously?

Ashreon.2840:

Worthless link. Funny, but rather worthless.

a) They already have the code necessary to add an item to a collection
b) They already have the code necessary to create a slot for an item in a collection
c) They already have the code which keeps track of whether you remove or add to a collection (such as crafting material collections)
d) They already have the code which keeps track whether or not the collection item has been added before or it is a new item never seen before.
d) It doesn’t take a genius to copy + pasta the code you already have and change the relevant references to fit the new code you want to make.
e) Job done and it wouldn’t take you more than 10min.

I don’t know of any programmers that would be stupid enough to reinvent the wheel. So let’s be honest. It’s just slack not getting those collections right – from the beginning. One could say that with proper Project Management this should not happen.

At least my Software Engineering & Software Design teachers would come down hard on us students if we reinvented the wheel each time.

I believe that you missed the point of the link. It’s not a joke post for “teh lulz”, it’s an allegory about the complexity of modern game programming, and how changing one thing can break five others. Also, he’s talking about how people not involved in the coding can pile on so many conditions to what should be a simple change, that the “simple” change becomes impossible. Things aren’t always so straight forward in the real world as they are in the classroom.

Raedwulf.3712:

Shots missed. As did yours, Skyline. The examples I gave are simple, stupid bugs that should have been picked up in QC and never released in the first place. And should take no time whatsoever to fix. They’ve released how many patches in the last 3 weeks? And did you miss the bit where I said “I’m an IT professional”? I’m an analyst/programmer. I’d be ashamed of myself if stuff like this got out into a live environment. Anet, apparently, aren’t.

And no, I’m not personally blaming John Smith. But he was quick to respond to a sucking-up-to-Anet thread. Responses to more critical comments are… rare, shall I say? Anet’s communication with its players has never been very good when there’s negative stuff around.

1. You say you’re an “IT professional”, so you should know all about how spokespeople are hemmed about with NDAs and public interaction protocols. Which means you know that most of the time, they can’t say anything substantial or useful.

2. Coding and QA/QCing an OS is child’s play compared to most modern video games. Don’t believe me? Check out the stories on The Trenches:http://trenchescomic.com/. Not all of the stories are relevant, but there are some stories from former video game “IT professionals” who are now happily employed in the easier, more relaxed, non-video game computer industry.

3. I really hope your programming skills are amazing, because your interpersonal communication skills leave a lot to be desired.

Raedwulf.3712:

Awesome – some awe.

Awful – full of awe.

Neither word actually says whether the awe is good or bad.

Your interpretation of both of those words is incorrect. Furthermore, it says in the definition whether it is good or bad.

awesome: adjective; extremely impressive or daunting; inspiring great admiration, apprehension, or fear.

awe: noun; a feeling of reverential respect mixed with fear or wonder.

Raedwulf.3712:

Well, you’re still reading, at least. Not a particularly good answer, but you’re still reading…

As it says, “daunting”, “inspiring awe”. It doesn’t say whether that’s good or bad. The informal is a secondary definition.

The definition of awesome doesn’t include the word awe in it, except when using it in an example. The specific quote is, “inspiring great admiration” not “inspiring awe.” Using a word or part of a word to define itself is circular. I understand your frustration with the bugs in game, but trying to insist that a contrived, trite and wrongly worded argument(like awesome = some awe/awful =full of awe) doesn’t help your case. In fact, it hurts your argument by making you look less intelligent than you are.

tldr: next time leave out the bogus “definitions” and just make your argument.

Ok, thanks everybody!

I apparently missed the news post originally talking about this. What the kitten is Action Camera? Can anybody(like maybe the OP) post a link to the original release info for this feature?

KittyCat.2059:

Here’s the data mined hero points estimated amount needed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3iz5oo/data_mining_hero_points_and_specialization_tracks/

Hope this helps

“TL;DR: You need 170 hero points to unlock all traits/skills. 250 to unlock everything. There are 214 hero points available from skill challanges in the game right now.”

Update: The 214 hero points are from skill challenges only. You get 398 hero points from leveling up alone, and you don’t need all of that to unlock everything in the core game. So, it’s easy enough to get the points you need. Most of my 80th level toons(I have have around 160 HP left over, and have <40% map completion. In fact, some of them have <30% map completion, and I only have one toon at 100%. Additionally, you will be able to complete HP in the PVE map, without ever having to actually go to that location or even discover the map. Just keep doing WvW like you want to do and you can get the drops to complete a challenge that you never have to even see.

TLDR: you have more HP available to you than you think, and will be able to complete your elite spec without having to get 100% map completion.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

1. I cannot do anything while waiting for JW/Teq or world bosses or guild missions or events to start, so I’m just standing around doing nothing when my friends and I could be having some fun. If I leave to goto a custom arena, I am restricted to PvP gear and will likely miss the event or not be able to get back into the map, if I leave to goto the GH and do it, I miss the event or cannot get back into the map. Sometimes you can be standing around in a specific map for hours just waiting for an event to start. Not fun.

That’s a fair point, and one that I am uncertain of what to suggest for a fix or compromise. The best I can think of for a compromise, is to disallow dueling in cities and allow it everywhere else. Not my favorite choice, but I have a feeling that whatever Anet chooses will leave one or more of the parties to this argument dissatisfied.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

2. I do not care less about kicking anyone’s bum in public or teaching PvP skills, or even actually winning the duels, but my friends and I would like to be able to do it with our down time in PvE without having to leave the map. Mostly, I enjoy duelling because it makes me a better player and improves my reflexes and tactics and strategy for key bindings etc. You don’t improve by winning as much as losing.

I really don’t see it even happening in crowded places, because you want open ground so that there are fewer distractions, other animations, other effects or just random people running past. Take Teq for example, nobody is going to duel near the zerg because they would not be able to see what was going on, same goes for near the bank or TP in LA. They will move away off to the side. If people wanted to troll you, they can already do that by spamming skills and animations in crowded areas, how much of that do you see going on?

I agree with your point about losing very much. Failure teaches far more than victory ever can. Your first sentence, however, has no relevance to how dueling will be perceived. It doesn’t matter if you aren’t interested in those thing, others will perceive that you are, if you are dueling in a major city. Unless dueling is barred in major cities, there will be dueling in those locations, because that’s where you can most easily find willing opponents.

You may want an open space, free from obstructions, and away from large groups of people. I know I would, but there are plenty of people who don’t want the same things when they duel. Some of them are in this thread. They don’t necessarily want this so they can troll people, but they can’t vouch for everybody, and neither can you or I. That is why, the one point I have remained opposed to throughout this entire thread, is dueling in cities. I don’t feel it adds anything productive, and I have seen the kind of hassle that follows when dueling is inside a major city in other games.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

There should also be an option to check so that you are able to even be invited to duel, an icon should appear on your effects bar for that.

You know, I think most of the time I would spend duelling would be with a couple of mates doing random things in PvE and at the same time, having a bit of ‘friendly fire’ going on and having a laugh about it.

What sucks now is that we actually mock do it, dodging and everything like shadow boxing, its just nowhere near as fun.

If Anet add dueling, I agree that there should be an option to autodecline any duel requests. Most of my duels in WoW were actually just that, messing around with guild mates, waiting to start a raid, or dungeon.

That’s cool that you mock duel, & I can see how that’d be about as satisfying as decaf coffee. I do kind of hope that they put dueling in, I just want to see it done in a rational way. At least, what I consider a rational way.

Thank you, btw for both responding and being civil. There are some good ideas in here, and hopefully Anet is paying attention.

runeblade.7514:

2. Dueling will affect other players just the same way Gold, PvE, PvP, WvW, and 100 other features affect players. If I am worried about petty harassment or some other minor negative impact, I would go complain about removing gold, dungeons, pvp, wvw, and other toxic features.

You continue to compare features that already exist to a single feature that doesn’t exist. This is a flawed argument from the start. Removing those features, which are already core to the game, is also significantly different from adding a new feature. Any way you look at it, your argument is neither relevant, nor productive to the discussion on this thread. You keep arguing as if I am opposed to all dueling. I have already stated on multiple posts that I am not opposed to dueling in general.

runeblade.7514:

3. I don’t work for ANet, but I can make stuff up with unsupported answers like you did.

Except that is exactly what you’ve done. I cited examples of what I have observed in one of my previous posts. It was in one of the sections you snipped as “irrelevant” as you cherry-picked my post.

runeblade.7514:

I don’t see why not have it in the Lion’s Arch area or whatever you are worried about. But I would like to see the cities being alive or duel while I am waiting on a queue or a friend. In a high population area, I can easily find a dueling partner instead of traveling a hundred miles to find a random players to duel with me.

So, finally we come to a straightforward answer. You want something to do while you wait for your fractals queue. Fair enough. Personally, I think that if they allow it in the major cities, it should be in it’s own area. The arena that was almost due north of the Bloodcoast Ward WP, maybe. Not my first choice of implementation, but we will obviously have to agree to disagree.

Out of curiosity, what are you going to do if they don’t allow it in cities or even in the open game world? I mean on one hand, hey dueling is here, but on the other hand, it sure ain’t what you want. Seriously, I’m not messing with you, I’m honestly asking. Can’t go back and forth with someone like we have without being a little curious about the other person’s mindset.

runeblade.7514:

tinymurder.5791:

runeblade.7514:

tinymurder.5791:

1. Dueling can indeed be a useful tool to teach pvp tactics and situational awareness.

2. Public dueling, as a result of it’s need for people to challenge will take place in locations that are heavily populated, i.e. banks, BLTP, crafting tables in major cities.

3. As a result, the increased activity and population added by dueling will tax server resources and induce lag.

4. While the majority of duelers may be polite friendly people, many are not. Anyone who has played WoW or LotRO is familiar with the obnoxious duelers who will not leave a person that doesn’t want to duel them alone.

snipped the offtopic points.

2. You know this because…?

3. Do you work for ANet? How do you know the state of ANet’s server? This sounds like BS.

4. True. Then remove WvW, PvP, PvE, Zerk gear, etc. because obnoxious players play those and I don’t want to be harassed.

2 & 3. Empirical observation

Snipped off the offtopic wall of text.

4. I have talked before about logical fallacies, yet you seem to be determined to make apples to oranges and strawman arguments. So let me restate my point in a way that will make it clearer:

The goal of adding a new feature to a game is to do so in such a way as to expand enjoyment of the game, without detracting from the current ways to enjoy the game. The feature you would like to see added, judging by the feedback of players other than just myself, is one that has some pretty negative aspects to it. I, and some of the other players in this thread, have decided to focus on ways that would maximize the positive, and minimize the negative, if Anet does decide to seriously consider adding dueling.

This thread is discussing the idea. You seem determined only to belittle my arguments, without offering any counterarguments. This is neither discussion, nor is it productive, since all your arguments boil down to, “my way or the highway.”

As a result, I have nothing further to say to you. I hope that if they do add dueling, you are able to enjoy it, even if it doesn’t take the form that you want.

2 & 3. aka. you are pulling this out of your pile of poo. I can do this too: ANet has a megaserver system that puts players into another map if it gets overfilled. WoW can’t do that. Therefore, ANet won’t feel the impact of lag. In your hypothesis this means, I should be lagging a lot when I playing a snipped irrelevant attempt to advertise your youtube channel How do I know? Because empircal oberservation of whatever crap you are talking about.

4. snipped irrelevant rant

5. snipped irrelevant rant

I changed my mind, I do have one further post to make to you in reply. I have snipped your arguments that are completely irrelevant to the topic of this thread. This is unlike your previous posts, where you apparently have no response to my on-topic arguments, so you edit them out in your response.

This behavior is called cherry picking and is a sign of someone who either has a weak argument or is trolling.

So, allow me to respond:

2. I have seen dueling in other games. It always occurs most often in high population areas. Why should this be allowed? Prove that it won’t affect anything or anyone. If you have anything to base this on, other than pure speculation and wishful thinking, by all means enlighten us all. I, at least can offer anecdotal evidence based on my own experience. You offer nothing but the assertion that I’m full of it. That’s an ad hominem argument and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

3. “Do you work for ANet? How do you know the state of ANet’s server? This sounds like BS.” Your argument applies equally to you as well as to me. Once again, you speculate, but at least this time you try to offer some support. By spouting the official Anet line about the megaserver. That’s seems a little odd, given that your signature and other posts seem to indicate a dissatisfaction with Anet.

I believe that I have made it clear that I am not against dueling in general. I’ve even made suggestions for how I believe Anet could make it interesting and fun and have only positive impacts on peoples game play experience. Try making your case for why you should be allowed to go duel people in the BLTP or on top of the Mystic Forge. How about around the Accountancy WP in Rata Sum? Make your case why you deserve to have as big a public audience as possible. I predict that instead of doing just that you’ll continue to attack me and snip out any arguments you don’t like.

Better hurry, though. I’m pretty sure the mods will lock this thread soon, since it’s gone off topic and is unproductive.

Vci.8459:

Hi guys,

I just wanted to add my 2 cents in here regarding dueling..

My main activity in these types of games is pvp, I enjoy gearing and pveing but my end goal is always to be prepared to pvp. I like to roam around finding people to fight against and see who comes out on top. This is just how I enjoy games.

Another thing to note is that I am a content creator, I make montages and the like of pvp and one of my big things for including dueling is variety and Flexability. When I’m creating a pvp video I scout cool looking areas to pvp in that are scenic, balanced for both people and makes for an entertaining clip.

Within the restrictions of a guild hall or the same structured environment this quickly loses variety and becomes predictable and boring. The ability to duel anywhere would let me create varied and exciting content to let people know about the game showing off its environment.

I like the idea of an auto decline duel button so those not interested in.dueling don’t need to worry. In my opinion dueling would allow people interested in that area of pvp to enjoy it and not take away from the pve experience at all.

And for me it would allow my videos to be varied and let not only the community but new potential players see how cool pvp can be and how amazing the world looks.

Thanks,

Vci

I see your point about the lack of variety. Not sure how to address that, without open world dueling. I can tell you that an autodecline feature does nothing to stop people from harassing you via /say, /map, or /whisper, to duel them. I ran into that problem in WoW, whenever I went into a city. By the way, at the time, cities were the only place you could access your bank, use the auction house, or get your mail. I’d like you to think about that, for just a moment. Every single time you go to check your mail, put something in the bank, or hit the auction house, somebody is whispering you, “come on, duel me. Just duel me bro. Don’t be a p—-y. Duel me!” So on and so on, until you finally get tired of being interrupted and you accept. You destroy him in 27 seconds, go back to what you were doing before, and then he starts pestering you for a rematch. You can’t ignore him, because you’ve already filled up your ignore list with goldsellers and other dueling kittens. Just to pull an example out of thin air.

Sorry, getting tired of this argument, especially since some of the folks in this thread think that no one’s ever played another game, except them. Or that anyone who has a different point of view could possibly have any valid experience that contradicts their personal bias.

Back to the variety thing…what about just banning dueling from major cities. You know the instanced cities, like LA, DR, RS, et cetera. I still don’t think that’s ideal, though. You could always have various arenas to duel in. Maybe an instanced arena for each city, with a portal from each city to it’s arena? Sort of like Polymock is supposed to be set up. You could even have a dueling lobby with portals to all the major cities, with the city arenas arranged radially around the central hub. Have each arena represent an aspect of the environment that each city is set in.

BC: dusty plains
Hoelbrak: snowy mountains
RS: jungle/swamp, or maybe underground to represent their origin in the deeps?
LA: an island, maybe?
DR: Forests
The Grove: jungle

That would seem to cover most of the terrain types for GW2.

runeblade.7514:

tinymurder.5791:

1. Dueling can indeed be a useful tool to teach pvp tactics and situational awareness.

2. Public dueling, as a result of it’s need for people to challenge will take place in locations that are heavily populated, i.e. banks, BLTP, crafting tables in major cities.

3. As a result, the increased activity and population added by dueling will tax server resources and induce lag.

4. While the majority of duelers may be polite friendly people, many are not. Anyone who has played WoW or LotRO is familiar with the obnoxious duelers who will not leave a person that doesn’t want to duel them alone.

snipped the offtopic points.

2. You know this because…?

3. Do you work for ANet? How do you know the state of ANet’s server? This sounds like BS.

4. True. Then remove WvW, PvP, PvE, Zerk gear, etc. because obnoxious players play those and I don’t want to be harassed.

2 & 3. Empirical observation. I have played a couple MMOs that have open world dueling, and it always gravitated to where the most people hang out on a regular basis. Any person who played WoW during BC can tell you what a lag-fest Stormwind, Ironforge, and Orgrimmar were. During Wrath it was Dalaran. Everyone crowds into the section of the city that had the auction house and the bank. Until Blizzard booted dueling out of the capital cities, that’s where the majority of dueling took place. Blizzard instituted this change, because of, in no particular order:

A. The strain on server resources
B. The significant performance reduction cause by induced lag
C. Increased disconnects caused by lag
D. Harassment of players by duelers, and the reverse.

I’d say look it up on the WoW forums, but I don’t recall if this was before the forum reset. If so, the extensive forums threads decrying public dueling are probably long gone. If not, then they are buried in the literally thousands of other threads on the WoW forums.

As far as the state of Anet’s servers, I am making some educated guesses. I’m basing my position on experience with other games, as well as Guild Wars 2. I’m drawing on my experience of the kind of performance degradation that occurs with overloading a server with both population and visual effects from a significant percentage of that population firing off aoe powers. I’m remembering fighting JorLag’s Claw, Tequatl, and the Shatterer, with FPS in the single digits. I’m remembering pre-Scarlet’s attack LA, and how packed things were in front of the bank. Why do you think they rearranged things the way they did? Just to make it prettier? Some of the design choices they made were to spread the population of LA around, instead of leaving it clumped up in one spot.

While GW2’s servers are pretty stable, they’re not perfect. Anet has been pretty smart about building in safety features to avoid instabilities like over population, by having overflow servers, just to name one example. Putting dueling in an instance is another possible solution. Whatever is decided, I seriously doubt it will be open world dueling. If it is, you can feel free to send me a PM gloating about it.

TLDR: This isn’t my first rodeo.

4. I have talked before about logical fallacies, yet you seem to be determined to make apples to oranges and strawman arguments. So let me restate my point in a way that will make it clearer:

The goal of adding a new feature to a game is to do so in such a way as to expand enjoyment of the game, without detracting from the current ways to enjoy the game. The feature you would like to see added, judging by the feedback of players other than just myself, is one that has some pretty negative aspects to it. I, and some of the other players in this thread, have decided to focus on ways that would maximize the positive, and minimize the negative, if Anet does decide to seriously consider adding dueling.

This thread is discussing the idea. You seem determined only to belittle my arguments, without offering any counterarguments. This is neither discussion, nor is it productive, since all your arguments boil down to, “my way or the highway.”

As a result, I have nothing further to say to you. I hope that if they do add dueling, you are able to enjoy it, even if it doesn’t take the form that you want.

PistolWhip.2697:

I dunno about the immunity to monsters thing. This could lead to abusing it to bypass mobs in certain areas.

Heck, some people might want the added complication of monsters to their duel for thematic reasons.

Also about the sparring point… what is my post… chopped liver? xD

I figured he was talking about your post that I quoted anyway, since I don’t think I’ve called it sparring in any of my posts.

I do agree that maybe there shouldn’t be an immunity to monsters for open world dueling. Mind you, I still think open world dueling is a terrible idea. However, if they were to incorporate dueling as an open world ability, then major cities would have to be off limits for duels. That wouldn’t be too difficult to code I think. I still believe a separate dueling area, in the Heart of the Mists like another poster mentioned, would be the better solution.

runeblade.7514:

How it griefs

Why does a duel need to be private? I can duel if I am waiting for a world boss to spawn, I can duel when one of my party member is afking. I can duel with random passerby if I am bored with the monotony of grinding hearts all day. I don’t understand why you have the need to feel threatened by seeing a duel between players unrelated to you or someone watching you duel with another player. At the end of the day, no one in the public will remember your duel.

You don’t like dueling because it brings harassment and the sole reason.

I want to remove gold because it bring harassment and it is the sole reason. No, it is a far better argument, you chose to ignore it. If you want to stop a feature just so you don’t get to be harassed, then I want to remove gold, dungeons, zerk gear, PvE, PvP, WvW, so I don’t get harassed. I can go into any MMORPG: WoW, LotRO, Tera, Guild Wars 2, Ragnarok, Aion and see beggars asking me for gold.

I’m not sure how you get that I am threatened, feel a need to be threatened by people dueling, or that I don’t want dueling just because of harassment. I have made no statements to that effect in this thread. Secondly the post of mine that you referenced originally was replying to someone who made the statement that dueling is a valuable teaching tool for people who want to pvp. My position, as stated previously, is as follows:

1. Dueling can indeed be a useful tool to teach pvp tactics and situational awareness.

2. Public dueling, as a result of it’s need for people to challenge will take place in locations that are heavily populated, i.e. banks, BLTP, crafting tables in major cities.

3. As a result, the increased activity and population added by dueling will tax server resources and induce lag.

4. While the majority of duelers may be polite friendly people, many are not. Anyone who has played WoW or LotRO is familiar with the obnoxious duelers who will not leave a person that doesn’t want to duel them alone.

Repeatedly, I have made these exact same points. Other posters have made the effort put forward counter arguments, alternatives, and dare I say it, solutions. They and I are having a dialogue. I have even changed my mind about the usefulness of dueling. You and others have convinced me that there is a place for some sort of 1v1 pvp in GW2.
Unfortunately, you seem determined to do nothing more than beat me over the head with your position and say, “not one step back!” You have not advanced a new idea, or offered a compromise. When asked to expand on your statement that custom arenas get griefed, you linked an earlier post that sounds more like a WvW encounter.
Please have the courtesy to read and consider my arguments, instead of simply dismissing the content, while you pick it apart for refutation. I have read your arguments, and they do have merit. Yet you never stop there, you instead seem to feel the need to delve into various logical fallacies, such as

False Equivalence fallacy
ad Hominem fallacy
Straw Man fallacy
Argument from repetition fallacy

You had good points, stick with those. Focus on ways that we could introduce dueling that minimize the impact on players, and maybe build community, rather keep trying for the my way or the highway routine. That way just gets this thread shut down as nonproductive. If you do not feel you can have a sound and logical debate about this then I feel we shall have to agree to disagree, & I will no longer respond to you posts.

Edited to add italicized section

PistolWhip.2697:

I have been harassed by just as many if not more PvE players as I have duelists.

I get the concern, but we can’t bow heads to the trolls or toxic players and give them the power to dictate how we should add to the game.

And it is adding to it. For you, maybe not, but for a group of players out there, this is the fulfilling content they need and want, even if it is simply because they can do it to pass time in events, or play at their full gear outside SPvP without having to swap to be on the opposing server this WvW match. It could just even be to foster a new guild of duelists who develop a ‘Fight Club’ in the Black Citadel Arena, where people can watch from the stands and even wager bets.

Could you imagine if this fighting pit had regular names and favourites who could defend their titles? The possibilities are endless.

The issue isn’t as much dueling, it is how it is implemented. There are measures that can safeguard other players in the event of dueling as an addition, and only when they are fully addressed to a satisfactory level should dueling be added.

But if they are, and people are willing to brainstorm for it because they love the idea of this open world dueling so much, what’s the harm?

I agree that it could add some good to the game. Not that it automatically will add good to the game, only that it could. You are correct that how you present an idea matters a great deal, as well as having an upbeat positive attitude about solving the problems. I’m a big fan of brainstorming too.

My problem is not with the idea of dueling. My problem is with the idea that we should import the dueling system from another game, as is. Dueling in WoW could be fun, and educational. More often, in my experience, it is vexing, annoying, and harassing. My other problem is the head in the sand statements that dueling as represented is fine and has no problems, and if you don’t like it, it’s because you’re dumb. I am exaggerating, of course, but many of the people arguing for dueling are neither recognizing problems, nor offering solutions.

I believe that dueling could be introduced to GW2, but not by cloning another game’s system. Let’s suggest ideas to Anet about ways that it could work. Ways that dueling could add good to the community and the game. Your vision of a sort of Fight Club league, a game within the game, that is completely player driven is really interesting. That’s an idea that can build community. So let’s talk more about ideas like that. Maybe make a true Polymock Arena for duelists. Hell maybe they’ll let us use the Queen’s Pavilion when it’s not time for the Jubilee.

runeblade.7514:

tinymurder.5791:

1. Address how being able to 1v1 in custom arenas or guild halls isn’t somehow giving you everything you need.

2. Explain how beating someone’s butt like a kettle drum in public is a better way to teach pvp skills than a custom arena with privacy.

1. Custom Arenas open up to griefing. There is no protection against griefing. Guild Halls doesn’t allow me to duel with random duelist I come across. I don’t want to duel with just friends, I want to duel with anyone and uninterrupted.

2. By doing 1v1, you can eventually see why that player had killed you. You can see the burst that killed you. You can see the immunity he brings to block all your attacks. You can change tactics to feint or learn how to block the duelist most devastating attacks. It is much more recognizable than a zerg blowing up pixels everywhere.

Your point about not wanting only to duel with your friends is not only valid, but a serious concern to anyone who wants to be good at pvp. After all, we only get better when we face a challenge. However, I don’t follow your point about custom arenas being open to griefing. Perhaps you could explain further?

Your second point about how 1v1 is also an excellent one, as far as being able to figure out tactics and counters. It completely fails to address my point about how doing so in public is at all necessary to the learning process. It fails to address the point that the desire to beat someone down in front of an audience of people that aren’t there for dueling is nothing more than the desire to stroke your e-p in public. Another poster suggested an instanced dueling arena. This would have it’s own dueling rules and everyone there would be there for the express purpose of dueling other players. This is a simple an elegant solution.

runeblade.7514:

Now you tell me, Why should we have gold? I am disgusted by these beggars that whispers to me to give them gold. They harass me, and insult me. Why is ANet not removing gold? You believe harassment is a serious case. Why not remove dungeons too? People can kick me out in the end and I have no choice over it. This is disgusting behavior and should result in dungeons or any challenging content being removed entirely.

You can either believe:

• This mythical harassment that dueling bring is not a serious problem.

or

• Remove Dungeons, challenging content, WvW, all of PvP, All of PvE, zerker gear, gold, map chat, say chat, any chat because I get harassed equally or more over there.

For shame, sir. your arguments in the first half of your post were far better. Here, you first compare apples to oranges, then extrapolate to infinity and wrap up with an either/or argument. As to your claim that the dueling harassment is “mythical”, I can assure you it is not. I have played WoW and LotRO both rather extensively and could go on ad nauseam with examples from my own experience.

I am not against the idea of 1v1 pvp without having to worry about some piker trying to interfere. I guess you could say that it’s a matter of zoning. My position is that dueling should occur in areas that are zoned for it, not all over the place.

BenjaminFast.7213:

If I may chime in on this topic, I don’t think the concept of having duels is totally unreasonable. However, I do agree with many points that have been made on both sides.

I wouldn’t say I’m an advanced player, I have got one character to lvl 80, and the rest are far behind that. I mostly play single player as I do still get overwhelmed with PVP. There is often chaos and sometimes I re-spawn and die within seconds and have no idea how or why. I’m not entirely useless either, but solely focusing on single player doesn’t allow you the opportunity to discover how other players fight. I’m mostly fighting, mindlessly, against monsters that I can beat without trying too hard. Enter PVP, I get slaughtered because I feel unprepared.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but did the original Guild Wars have an option for 1v1 duels? It has been WAY too long since I’ve played it to remembers.

My two suggestions for this matter are either:

1) Create a separate arena for duels, not included on the world map or PVP. Enter at your own risk. Fight other players, either at a standard lvl of 80, a la PVP, or within categories from lvls 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, etc. so you aren’t completely slaughtered. That way you can form a good fighting style at the lvl your character is currently at and grow as a player as you level up.

or

2) Have a dueling option included with the WvE, when players can send suggestions to other players to duel, and upon acceptance, the duel will commence. However, as mentioned above, it would get annoying constantly declining duels, or have an “inbox” of sorts of offers that gets clogged up. So my suggestions is to have an option to “Block all Duel Offers”, so when one players scans over a player who has triggered the “block” options, the ability to send the suggestion is not even possible until they change that feature to" welcome duel offers."

How this would effect the “community” as people have been concerned about, I don’t know. But at least if you are given the option to duel, or block the offers, then anyone not interested doesn’t have to partake. Those are my suggestions.

I do see the benefit of playing 1v1 to gain experience and fighting strategies, however, they would have to create it in a way where there is still peace between the players, and that those not interested can play the game without the hassle. However, to not include this feature and leave it as is, I would be completely content with that as well. Just my two sense.

I like your first suggestion. It has the benefit of providing a place for dueling that doesn’t stress existing server resources, keeps the duels from disrupting people engaged in banking/posting trades or pve, and means that everyone in the dueling location is there for that purpose. In other words, it’s community building. You could even have it be the Polymock Arena at Rata Sum, with entrances in all major cities. This is a win/win for people who want to duel and for people who don’t want to deal with the inevitable side effects of dueling. Hell, I think it would even prevent a lot of the side issues that show up with open world dueling.

However, I disagree with your second suggestion. It is nothing more than the same open world dueling suggestions as posted earlier. Your second suggestion still fails to address the many concerns of trolling, disruption, and harassment that follow the introduction of open world dueling. I will not list them all again, but I will say this: it’s easier to add an instanced area with it’s own rules, than it is to add a feature that works correctly over the entire game world. This, I believe, argues for an instanced area for dueling.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I fail to see how duelling causes a terrible community, look at the duelling community in WvW for example.

Just implement it already, with an option to not even be able to be invited to duel as well as (for those that want to duel) a character icon displaying “Duelist” or something meaning you are open to invites to duel which you would then have to accept.

Just gonna quote myself again.

Just because you do not want it, doesn’t mean those that do shouldn’t get it. If you don’t want to duel, don’t click the “Duelist” checkbox to allow duel invites. Simple. Go about your business. The rest of us that enjoy it will find somewhere to congregate and have fun.

I actually find it absurd that there are no fighting pits in LA specifically for duels.

The corollary to that is that just because you want it doesn’t mean that the rest of us have to be subjected to it.

If you aren’t making a case for you position, you are not contributing to the discussion. By continually restating your case all you do portray yourself as a child who keeps saying, “wanna candy! wanna candy! wanna candy!” You can do better than this.
1. Address how being able to 1v1 in custom arenas or guild halls isn’t somehow giving you everything you need.

2. Explain how beating someone’s butt like a kettle drum in public is a better way to teach pvp skills than a custom arena with privacy.

If you can’t convince people over these two simple points, you will never be able to convince anyone that you aren’t looking for a way to stroke yourself in public. I’m not trying to be rude, but that’s what this entire thread looks like. If it isn’t the case that you just want an audience while you destroy people, then prove it.

Sagach.3276:

I think you’re confusing open world PVP with dueling. One is ganking and troll prone while the other one is fun and can be a great teaching tool for new players. You don’t have to participate in dueling and it’s usually really hard to spam dueling invites. I miss dueling and would definitely use it.

I know I’m not confusing the two. I don’t know what game you’re coming from, but spamming duel invites was not difficult at all in WoW. Even with autodecline for duels, it doesn’t stop the constant stream of “just duel me, bro! wut are you, chiken?” and other comments. As far as dueling being a teaching tool goes, brass knuckles can be a teaching tool too, but they usually aren’t.

Daharahj.1325:

Dueling creates a terrible community, how did you come to this conclusion? The reason this community is friendly is because the game promotes and rewards team play, dueling or the lack thereof has absolutely nothing to do with it.

I’m not new to the game, but that’s hardly relevant to this discussion.

I already explained why trying to get learn pvp in a tvt environment is a terrible idea, it’s overwhelming, and outright offputting to new players, they need to take in too much information at once, they don’t know why they’re dying or where the damage is coming from, because they simply don’t know what other classes do due to lack experience. So they have a bad time and never return, or simply wait until they have to whole game figured out before jumping into TvT due to their insecurity.

Then again, just like you enjoy a pvp-free game, some of us would really enjoy the ability to duel eachother outside of hotm because it’s fun to us, and implementing this system with the option to auto-decline is the best of both worlds.

I get that you think it teaches pvp skills, that it builds community, and would be super easy to implement, but you also have no proof to back you up.

1. I have years of empirical observation from WoW, that dueling doesn’t teach pvp skills at all. Most of the duelers I’ve known, spend their time in Stormwind, Ironforge, or Orgrimar challenging every passerby to a duel. After they couldn’t duel in cities, they just moved right outside the gates. They didn’t do this between running battlegrounds or arenas, this was how they enjoyed the game. Usually by badgering people incessantly about dueling them, and calling them all sorts of nasty things when refused. This teaches nothing but bad behavior.

2. I also have years of empirical observation that dueling exists in some of the most caustic communities. It may not be the cause, but it most certainly isn’t a solution. Not all duelers are monomaniacal obnoxious twits, but enough of them are, that all duelers get tarred by that brush. The obnoxious ones are rude, crude, and persistent to the point of bullying. They flood the public channels and whispers with requests for duels and questions about why you won’t fight them. The only answer they will accept is ok I’ll fight you. Then it’s still not over. If they win, they start gloating about how they stomped the butt of someone 10 levels lower than them, and how you should duel them again, “so yu can get gud, lol.” If you stomp them into the ground, they complain about how your class/spec/race/gear/personal philosophy is OP and then immediately challenge you do a rematch. This does nothing to promote community, in any way.

3. If you leave it up to the “dueling community” where to duel, they will naturally go to the place that has the most potential marks, I mean opponents. That means wherever the densest population is at any given time. Based on my travels in game, that means the pvp lobby, Lion’s Arch, Divinities Reach(outside the bank & BLTP), Rata Sum(around the Accountancy WP), The Black Citadel(around the trade area), and The Grove(also around the trade/bank area). All of these areas are already resource intensive, because of their high population density. Add in duelers, and you’re talking about lag city. Which is another point for #2, since people will intentionally try to crash a server by getting enough duels going to lag the system into submission. Adding a new feature that works across the entire open world, in all situations, and doesn’t affect server stability is hard. Especially something that adds a significant amount to the server/client response loop. Look at any MMO that has added any client-wide feature, ever. It either involves months of coding, testing, recoding, retesting, etc., or it releases broken and breaks other things. Or both.

I get that you want to have fun and prove your worth 1v1 with other people than your guildies, but you need to realize that dueling will not be easy to implement, will add nothing to the wider community, and doesn’t do much to teach the average player how to pvp. A mentor can teach someone to pvp, and adds infinitely more to the community.

TyPin.9860:

I agree that there are problems with the suggestion. However, I do nut understand why everyone thinks that disadvantaged means outnumbered. I did not write that. Being outnumbered can be the reason for the disadvantage, but it doesn’t have to be…

Then explain what exactly you mean by disadvantaged. If everyone seems to misunderstand what you mean by disadvantaged, then the problem does not lie with their comprehension, but rather in your presentation.

The only obvious disadvantage that is measurable by in-game statistical analysis is the number of players in each borderland instance. Everything else that comes to mind requires observation of behavior and activity, not a simple data query.

Somebody mentioned server loyalty being a myth. I disagree, but I will say that it took a huge hit when megaservers came online. Hard to have server loyalty, when most of the people you run into are from other servers and it’s a bloody miracle when you actually meet someone from your server who isn’t a guildie.

I wasn’t asking about one specific build, but thank you for a succinct, yet thorough answer. I got on Metabattles and was confused, because most of the staff builds use Stone Splinters and none of the dagger builds have it. Elementalist isn’t my main profession, but I thought I understood the class. Obviously I need to rethink some things.

Thanks again, you’ve given me some things to think about for Elementalists.

Is Stone Splinters not a thing anymore with D/D builds? I checked out Metabattles wiki and none of their D/D builds have it, but some of their Staff builds do. I’m just coming back after a 6 month break, and I’m now totally confused.

Lothirieth.3408:

…Saying the TP is central to the game doesn’t mean it’s required to load the game and play it. That’s absurd as well. Don’t put words in my mouth....

…Frankly your argument wasn’t at all logical. It was far too black and white, this and that and not connected to reality.

[/quote]
If you are going to take me to task for putting words in your mouth, you need to extend to me the same courtesy.

The last two lines of your post are argumentum ad hominem fallacies and indicate a weak position. Either your argument can stand on it’s merits, or don’t bother posting.

Lastly, name 1 thing that you can only procure on the TP, that is necessary for game.

Thank you so very much.

laokoko.7403:

tinymurder.5791:

Lothirieth.3408:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The heart of these complaints is that players feel “Entitled” to good stuff with no effort. That, and the jealousy of some over the players who do well with the market.

You keep saying this. Maybe you’re under the impression that if you repeat it enough, that will make it true? Sadly it won’t.

And once you realize that the game doesn’t revolve around the TP

Wow… just wow… that’s just.. an absurd thing to say.

How is it absurd? Please explain how the TP is the central focus of the game? I hardly ever use the thing, so does that mean I’m playing the game wrong? Or could it be, that the TP is only central to the game if you make your goals for the game revolve around the TP?

You have made the claim that the TP is central to the game, so make your case. Provide your irrefutable facts that it is impossible to play this game without using the TP. Better yet, try an experiment:

Play for 30 days without using the TP in any way.
No buying.
No selling.
No gemstore purchases.
No browsing through what’s available.

If, at the end of the 30 days, you say that you didn’t enjoy yourself in any way and that you were miserable due to the lack of TP involvement in the game, I will not post in this forum again. If you have any fun, however, you stop using this false argument and find one that is more logical.

It’s like people saying other games force you to grind gears for stats. The reality is if you don’t do top tier content, you don’t need to get those gear.

If people give up on getting those skins, or ascended gear since the boost is tiny. Or be patient to get it slower… etc etc.

More or less my point. Thank you.

Lothirieth.3408:

tinymurder.5791:

Provide your irrefutable facts that it is impossible to play this game without using the TP.

Since when did I say it’s impossible to play the game without the TP? Please provide irrefutable facts that I said this. Saying the TP is central to the game doesn’t mean it’s required to load the game and play it. That’s absurd as well. Don’t put words in my mouth.

Play for 30 days without using the TP in any way.
No buying.
No selling.
No gemstore purchases.
No browsing through what’s available.

If, at the end of the 30 days, you say that you didn’t enjoy yourself in any way and that you were miserable due to the lack of TP involvement in the game, I will not post in this forum again. If you have any fun, however, you stop using this false argument and find one that is more logical.

Oh, I’d love not interacting with the TP as much as I do. But I’m afraid it’s necessary since most things in this game require gold or can’t be farmed in anywhere near a reliable or timely manner. Hence, it is central to the game.. if anyone wants to do anything but continually and only level toons, not giving any care to having up to date armor as they level.

Frankly your argument wasn’t at all logical. It was far too black and white, this and that and not connected to reality.

True, I am the one that said impossible. However, your response to Smooth Penguin earlier in the post implied your belief that the game revolves around the TP, and in your reply to me, you call it necessary and central to playing the game. These are false statements, backed by the airy argument that “most things” require the TP. The only time the TP becomes necessary or central, is if you want to shortcut the legendary crafting process. There isn’t a kitten thing you “need” the TP for, as long as you are willing to put in the time and effort.

My argument may seem black and white, because it doesn’t rely on flimsy opinions and mushy feelings, it relies on facts and logic. If you “need” the TP, it is because you have a personal goal that the TP will make easier.

Addendum: the exception that proves the rule, is if you want something that can no longer be acquired in game, such as the infinite hair style kit.

I just came back after a brief hiatus from game to discover that all my townclothes were gone. I had seen the posts about the upcoming wardrobe implementation, but didn’t recall seeing anything about this drastic change to townclothes. So, it came as a bit of a shock to discover that the majority of my purchases over the last 21 months had been turned into potions, skins and complete outfits that can’t be mix-n-matched. I can’t dye or mix up a number of items I purchased to make specific outfits. The skins take the place of actual armor pieces. Armor pieces that I like to see when I’m in armor. Lastly the outfits can be mixed with other outfits or townclothes. My wife made an awesome combo with the Winter Outfit and the Bloody Prince head piece, to dress her male necro as the Joker. We paid money for items that we could dye all sorts of colors and wear in different combinations. These possibilities are why we purchased them and they’ve been taken away.

My question is this:

Has anyone tried to get a refund for all the items they bought from the gemstore that are no longer working as intended?

I’m not even mad anymore. Okay, maybe a little, but only a little. I’m really more sad/resigned to the idea that the wife and I will be stuck with a boatload of potions/skins that we will never use.

Lothirieth.3408:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The heart of these complaints is that players feel “Entitled” to good stuff with no effort. That, and the jealousy of some over the players who do well with the market.

You keep saying this. Maybe you’re under the impression that if you repeat it enough, that will make it true? Sadly it won’t.

And once you realize that the game doesn’t revolve around the TP

Wow… just wow… that’s just.. an absurd thing to say.

How is it absurd? Please explain how the TP is the central focus of the game? I hardly ever use the thing, so does that mean I’m playing the game wrong? Or could it be, that the TP is only central to the game if you make your goals for the game revolve around the TP?

You have made the claim that the TP is central to the game, so make your case. Provide your irrefutable facts that it is impossible to play this game without using the TP. Better yet, try an experiment:

Play for 30 days without using the TP in any way.
No buying.
No selling.
No gemstore purchases.
No browsing through what’s available.

If, at the end of the 30 days, you say that you didn’t enjoy yourself in any way and that you were miserable due to the lack of TP involvement in the game, I will not post in this forum again. If you have any fun, however, you stop using this false argument and find one that is more logical.

Lothirieth.3408:

…Giving people more choice and balancing store and game armor…

Not sure what you mean by this, since you are comparing skins without stats to items with stats. Are you saying that the gemstore armor skins should actually be items with stats, or that in-game armor should be skins, and we pick the stats ourselves?

This isn’t the only issue I have with your argument, but it is the one that made me come to a complete stop while reading your post and stare at my screen for 5 minutes, trying to decide if I had lost the ability to comprehend written English.

Jahroots.6791:

phys.7689:

TP lovers are still missing the point. Its not about inflation and money sharing its about the game at endgame, basically becomes a gold wars game. Content takes a back seat to making gold, because in general content doesnt get you to your end game goals very fast.

People who didnt buy the game to play the TP think this is a bad design.
If you get invited to play basketball, you expect to play basketball
If you buy an action game you expect primary way to progress is through action
you buy an adventure game, you expect primary way to progress is through adventure

^ Yeah, this really needed to be said.

I understand that many of you in this sub forum truly enjoy trading, and the basic economics that are at play here. But the average player is kind of miffed that so much of the game revolves around this system. We would rather have the game reward players in a way that enriches everyone’s in-game experience.

As an average player, I have to disagree with your characterization of my emotional state in regards to the TP. Furthermore, I take offense with your attempt to speak for and defend the “average” play. I don’t recall there being a poll for “average” players to elect you to whiteknight for us on the forums about the evils of the BLTP. Especially as I don’t feel that the game revolves around the TP at all. Other than as a way to get gemstore items, or offload extra items that I don’t salvage, I couldn’t care less if the TP got removed next patch. I just don’t get particularly exercised about the fact that some folks are making more gold I am, just by playing the TP. While they’re doing that, I’m gonna be out playing the game the way I want to. If that’s how they want to play, then good for them. Personally, I don’t give a kitten .

Lastly, a lot of folks in this thread keep talking about how 1c undercuts are “meaningless” relative to the high cost of upper end items. Psychologically, this may be true, but money(real or virtual) and price differences are not “relative” concepts. They are absolutes. If someone is willing to buy “Twilight” at 1c under the listed price, then they’re probably a cheap kitten who is going to carry that attitude into every transaction on the TP. Changing the minimum undercut isn’t going to change the buyer’s behavior in the slightest. It can only affect the seller, which given most buyer’s drive to pay the least cost possible, will drive down prices for everything. Eventually, people will start posting .9% over their costs, so they can’t be undercut on big-ticket items. For low-end item, we’re already there.

Duke Nukem.6783:

Tranc.6780:

Forgive me if this point has already been mentioned (as I stopped reading 100% of the posts after page 4) but while a 1c undercut may be insignificant to the buyer if it only happens once, it becomes more significant if many sellers start undercutting by 1c (or more than 1c each, but less than 1%).

E.g., suppose an item is listed at 1g, and 50 sellers view that 99s is lower than what they want to sell at (maybe it eats too much into their margin, whatever), the result is that you get 51 listings at 1g. Now if each seller is allowed to undercut the previous by 1c, the result is that a buyer can purchase the item @ 99s 50c. The net result is a lower price for the buyer(s) that eventually may become significant because all those 1c’s add up.

this is an unrealistic and insignificant point as on most expensive items it would take thousands of ppl undercutting by 1c to make even the tinyest of difference to the buyer and that just never happens. when someone undercuts by 1 copper it hurts the previous seller and the buyer. nobody is benefitting but the one abusing the system and undercutting by such a small amount

Maybe I’m confused here, but how does an undercut harm the buyer? Are they harmed because they aren’t buying from your higher price? You and many other posters have said that 1c doesn’t matter, because of the most expensive items don’t trade often enough. That argument has some serious blinders on it, since the vast majority of items on the TP are low cost items that are moving in quantity. In those cases, a 1c difference adds up to a noticeable saving. If you are involved in large scale trading, those 1c undercuts are where your profit margin lies. If you want a “real life” example, look at the history of e-books with Amazon. They made a boatload of money off of the idea that quantity has a quality of it’s own.

Carpboy.7145:

After march 18 both will proc. same with 2 on swap

That would be an awesome answer, if I was using proc on swap. What about proc on crit? Will both proc on crit, will only the main hand proc, or does main proc on 1-3 and offhand proc on 4 & 5?

If you use 2 weapons and have a different on-crit sigil on each weapon, can both proc, or does only the main-hand proc?

NeroGuilt.4720:

Then they are complete idiots. They won’t accomplish anything. They aren’t going to make money off of it. So then why waste resources doing something like this, unless of course, they are all basic script kiddies who can’t actually accomplish something worth while. Which is more of what i’m thinking. People are on payroll to deal with this, and they are getting ran around by some wanna be group. Hilarious.

Unfortunately, they aren’t doing it for the money, they’re doing it for the “lulz” and the hell of it. The other thing is, they only have so be successful once to make waves, the cyber security folks have to be successful every time or they’re considered failures.

Also, these guys aren’t “script kiddies” they are some of the better hackers and programmers out there. After all, they found a vulnerability in the Network Time Protocol and have exploited it ruthlessly to generate the largest DDOS attack in the history of the Internet. I’d say that proves a certain amount of skill and will to succeed. Shame all that potential is being wasted in the cyberspace equivalent of egging your neighbor’s car, or mailbox baseball.

NeroGuilt.4720:

I randomly keep hearing about the whole ddos thing. I really doubt it is even true. You are telling me no one on an entire server team, knows how to stop a group of teens that probably only have basic script knowledge? Has to be kitten. Whether it’s true or a cover up for dropping the ball severely, get it fixed. This game is already getting old for those of us that don’t do pve anyways, don’t make it even worse.

Don’t you pay attention to the news? Frigging kitten . Trolling has been engaged in a major reflect and amplification DDOS attack on Cloudflare all week. I do wish they’d kitten off, though. I have better things to do than sit around with gamer blue balls.

she reminds me a little of Mecha Maid from the webcomic Spinnerette