Guild Wars 2

Lheimroo.2947:

Certainly didn’t mean to be offensive with ‘dopes’ – meant it more as a gently chiding nudge, as from a concerned friend.

I wouldn’t put it like ‘headless chickens’ either! But Arghore was essentially right; I think Anet often draws the wrong conclusion from these little confrontations.

Wasn’t offended at all thanks for clarifying.

Chris

If you report them, we will come.

Login status is dictated by launcher login state or game launch status. The reason that you are able to see your friend online is because they have sucessfully logged in via the launcher. That being said, the login process will keep your friend logged in while the launcher session is in an active “logged in” state. The state that you are seeing is when the user logs into an account via the launcher and remains on the post-login suspended/banned prompt.

This is a limbo state, and is reflected by the friend’s list not displaying a location for your friend.

As far as your friend being suspended, we can’t look into it unless you provide a ticket # or an account name.

notebene.3190:

Do we have any means at our disposal to ask a few simple questions about some odd things that were changed that were never in patch notes, or why two of the same ‘class’ of item available in the gem store weren’t quite designed the same way, and why, and could it ever be fixed?

I tried submitting a ticket once, and almost got somewhere, but then when I was getting warm, and though the person I was talking to could actually go ‘ask the developers’ (or a phrase he/she used close to that), it went cold and I was told to post here.

The problem is, you folks (developers and CMs) only really jump into the bigger, heady stuff (CDI; big feature pack topics), and there doesn’t seem like there is any room to just get some small things answered here or there. Or maybe there is, and I just don’t understand the process?

We need to consolidate the number of communication channels and then we will have more time and visibility on individual threads that the community are posting to engage.

Chris

IndigoSundown.5419:

I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon, but here goes. One of the issues I had with the previous iteration of CDI’s was the extreme length of some of the posts, leading to threads that were just too much to read. Given the redundancy in suggestions, I’d venture to say I wasn’t the only one who didn’t/couldn’t read everything.

I’m not sure how to fix this, except to suggest that people keep it simple, and not try to lay out every suggestion they have in one post. Even in this thread, there have been several essays. I recognize that people are passionate about their ideas, but for the rest of us, and for the devs who are also reading, shorter posts are probably going to have more impact.

Not a lead balloon at all it is something we need to work out for sure.

Chris

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Bryzy.2719:

@Chris

First, just to say many thanks for taking the time to respond to the players. I understand that you have to juggle actual real-life work with posting on here, alongside the fact that you clearly use your time at home to communicate with us too, which in itself is proof enough that you care about the game. Much appreciated.

In terms of CDIs, I’ve personally only been a significant part of one – the Ranger CDI which Allie took charge of some months ago. While she communicated with us relatively frequently, many players within the thread felt slightly frustrated that the devs weren’t communicating which of the suggestions were carrying the most weight with them. The thread ended up becoming very crowded and I think a little direction with semi-frequent developer summaries every ~7-10 pages would have provided a great way to keep the thread moving in directions that weren’t obvious dead-ends for the devs. I think more frequent communication from the devs as to which ideas they like and dislike – along with a ‘no promises’ disclaimer of course – would at least help keep the CDIs running in a helpful direction. The Ranger CDI I think ended up as one huge mess of repeated suggestions, arguments and lack of direction – however this can be forgiven simply due to the fact that it was one of the pioneering CDIs and therefore completely new ground for you guys. I’m confident that future ones will be improving upon these however.

From the OP of this thread, it’s understandable why you guys don’t like to talk speculatively about the game, because it can cause upset when things don’t come to fruition. However, being too afraid to speak speculatively can also be a large hindrance to your communication with the playerbase. As per my suggestion with future CDIs and semi-frequent dev summaries within the threads, as long as you give a disclaimer along the lines of “these are some possible options we’re looking into, however there are no guarantees”, the players are being made no false promises, but at least they know which suggestions to expand on and make the thread more productive.

Finally, one aspect of Allie’s communication was a little concerning to many players in the Ranger CDI. When she spoke of Anet’s “design philosophy” for the Ranger (i.e. a sustained damage-type profession with good mobility) – she seemed resolute in keeping it that way and seemed unwilling for it to be altered to address what the community felt the Ranger needed to become a more viable profession. This may very well have been a one-off case, however I think willingness to change or add-to profession philosophies should definitely be a part of the GW2 experience.

Hi,

Forgive me for copying and pasting this but it will be useful to you i think:

Hi,

I am re-posting a response i posted yesterday as it is pertinent:

’It’s worth pointing out that I had way more time to do the more PVE centric CDIs than some of the other guys and girls did. This is important because I haven’t really gone into this before. there is no doubt that some CDIs were better represented than others.

I acknowledge that that there is a time vs dev problem. If you look back at my posts you will see more details on this.

Do please understand however that just because there are no replies to feedback that we aren’t constantly reading the forums.

We have plans to stop this being an issue in regard to CDI moving forward.
Chris’

If you get a chance have a look at some of the other CDI stickies and hopefully you see just how well we can connect if we have the time as well as how we used summaries as per your suggestion.

Thanks for you feedback,

Chris

And Bryzy. Thanks a lot for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Chris

Kaos.9162:

Thanks for the update, the communication goes a long way.

No worries I am enjoying reconnecting. Just wish I had more time.

Chris

Bryzy.2719:

@Chris

First, just to say many thanks for taking the time to respond to the players. I understand that you have to juggle actual real-life work with posting on here, alongside the fact that you clearly use your time at home to communicate with us too, which in itself is proof enough that you care about the game. Much appreciated.

In terms of CDIs, I’ve personally only been a significant part of one – the Ranger CDI which Allie took charge of some months ago. While she communicated with us relatively frequently, many players within the thread felt slightly frustrated that the devs weren’t communicating which of the suggestions were carrying the most weight with them. The thread ended up becoming very crowded and I think a little direction with semi-frequent developer summaries every ~7-10 pages would have provided a great way to keep the thread moving in directions that weren’t obvious dead-ends for the devs. I think more frequent communication from the devs as to which ideas they like and dislike – along with a ‘no promises’ disclaimer of course – would at least help keep the CDIs running in a helpful direction. The Ranger CDI I think ended up as one huge mess of repeated suggestions, arguments and lack of direction – however this can be forgiven simply due to the fact that it was one of the pioneering CDIs and therefore completely new ground for you guys. I’m confident that future ones will be improving upon these however.

From the OP of this thread, it’s understandable why you guys don’t like to talk speculatively about the game, because it can cause upset when things don’t come to fruition. However, being too afraid to speak speculatively can also be a large hindrance to your communication with the playerbase. As per my suggestion with future CDIs and semi-frequent dev summaries within the threads, as long as you give a disclaimer along the lines of “these are some possible options we’re looking into, however there are no guarantees”, the players are being made no false promises, but at least they know which suggestions to expand on and make the thread more productive.

Finally, one aspect of Allie’s communication was a little concerning to many players in the Ranger CDI. When she spoke of Anet’s “design philosophy” for the Ranger (i.e. a sustained damage-type profession with good mobility) – she seemed resolute in keeping it that way and seemed unwilling for it to be altered to address what the community felt the Ranger needed to become a more viable profession. This may very well have been a one-off case, however I think willingness to change or add-to profession philosophies should definitely be a part of the GW2 experience.

Hi,

Forgive me for copying and pasting this but it will be useful to you i think:

Hi,

I am re-posting a response i posted yesterday as it is pertinent:

’It’s worth pointing out that I had way more time to do the more PVE centric CDIs than some of the other guys and girls did. This is important because I haven’t really gone into this before. there is no doubt that some CDIs were better represented than others.

I acknowledge that that there is a time vs dev problem. If you look back at my posts you will see more details on this.

Do please understand however that just because there are no replies to feedback that we aren’t constantly reading the forums.

We have plans to stop this being an issue in regard to CDI moving forward.
Chris’

If you get a chance have a look at some of the other CDI stickies and hopefully you see just how well we can connect if we have the time as well as how we used summaries as per your suggestion.

Thanks for you feedback,

Chris

Hi Silmar,

if you look through the posts I and others have made about direct impact of CDI that might be helpful for you and it is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of community impact.

You have made a ton of assumptions in this thread that can only be corrected through more knowledge gathering on your part. Such as we read the forums but we don’t listen. The reality of development is that we have a finite amount of time, manpower and therefore we prioritize. I agree we need to get better at communication however.

Finally, as I have said before in this thread. No one is forcing you to do something that you think is pointless. So I would suggest not partaking in the CDIs if you think they are not going to bear fruit. Alternatively you could talk to players who for example partook in the Living World CDI and see what their thoughts are.

Chris

Kaos.9162:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Crise.9401:

This has probably been mentioned already, but since I saw no response for it repetition can’t hurt.

Ages ago, in one of the older Ready Up streams, after the last WvW tournament, a CDI regarding WvW seasons/tournaments was mentioned to be “coming within a week” I don’t think I would have missed it if it did. So whatever happened to that?

Hi Crise,

i will double check. That seems like eons ago so please forgive me for my weak memory (-:

Chris

Any updates on this? Did a quick glance through your post history and didn’t see anything, though I might’ve just missed it.

Hey Kaos,

I will be speaking with the guys on Tuesday and will report back.

Chris

WvW Tournament tickets do not expire. You can combine tickets earned in the upcoming fall tournament with tickets saved from past tournaments.

Arghore.8340:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Lheimroo.2947:

Oh, we know Anet reads the forums. I’ll stick to my criticism of this ‘no talkies’ policy with my belief that seeking specific input earlier in the process would lead to lots fewer forums blowups, though.

So for the CDIs.. Anet, pick your own topics. Forward looking topics, as general or specific as you like.

And in general.. no offense intended, but stop acting like dopes.

You draw this huge lesson about early announcements from the precursor hunt scandal. Lesson drawn: don’t do early announcements. Instead, my lesson? ‘Keep folks in the loop when plans change or get delayed’.

You introduce a changed dungeon path and a new SAB world. Lesson drawn, “New dungeons don’t work.” – My lesson? “Fiddle with the recipe, cuz we recognize how different those two new experiences were from ‘standard’, and yet Molten Facility and SAB world 1 were massively popular”

.. and so on and so forth. Maybe you’re too terrified of user reactions, cuz you’re drawing a lot of timid conclusions.

No that isn’t the case at all.

I have taken the time to answer loads of questions in this thread and many comments around your points can be found in my previous responses.

No idea what you mean by ‘Dopes’ but overall it isn’t conducive to healthy discussion in that i Have no idea what you mean.

Hopefully you will find some of the answers to your questions and assumptions.

Chris

Being a former dope-head I might be able to explain, and I actually wanted to point this out as well in a thread, but might as well do it here (aka. your 180degree turns) …

Anyways: dope is all about the rush (which can be positive (good high) or negative (bad trip)) but both will be this experience of a rush. So how does that apply, well it sometimes feels that when you face criticism or critiques, you react all ‘doped up’ take a complete 180, and fully rush the other way… perhaps, ‘hyped up’ is about the same experience as ‘doped’ implies…

F/e the LS, where it was this mayor 1x big open world ordeals, to now, a timid stream replay-able mostly instanced personal story expansion. While I hope it will pick up some steam, and even though I think in part this solved some issues. It is a full 180… and if you check feedback, there are numerous people missing these big open world things… (a permanent big boss open world event would certainly help here but that aside)

Same with SAB, so ok, part 2 wasn’t all people expected, some things are hit and miss, no need to just abandon it. Analyse why it was received so differently than part 1, see if you can rediscover/recapture that part 1 spirit. Or, simply acknowledge this is it, and just put it permanently in the game, with a ‘if we find that spirit again, we will pick this up, currently our priorities lie else where, and we don’t think we have enough inspiration to do a full part 3 at this moment, but enjoy what is there…

That is ‘what I think’ he means with doped, you get this idea in this rush and go with it like a headless chicken, because you think it’s the best idea you ever had. Being all Hyped up, is probably the best equivalent to it, if you aren’t inclined to get intoxicated. But ‘you know’ even alcohol does this, just write down your great ideas at the bar, and read them again the next morning… doped is a bit different, but still…

;tldr: So really, the full 180s you make based upon feedback are sometimes hard to comprehend, not everything needs a full 180, sometimes a 10-30 degree diversion from the original idea is enough to deal with the concerns.

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to post and thanks for the honesty in your comments.

The reality is that we probably spend to much time thinking before discussing and not enough time sharing the journey with everyone.

I am still thinking this all through and the conversation is really useful so thanks.

Chris

Xealyth.8249:

Sorry, I don’t know if this is the right topic or not, but my friend wanted to test to see if my name I always use for video games is available. Alas, it was, but then when he deleted it I wasn’t able to use it. I figured it was the 24 hour reservation thingy. Is there a way my friend can bypass this or something? Like remove the reservation for the name that he doesn’t want it, or do I have to wait a stupid 24 hours to use it?

Sorry, we cannot override the “cool down period” on names. It’s not long to wait, and you’ll soon be all set.

Going out for a bit, will be back shortly.

Chris

fadeaway.2807:

Too many times have these ‘CDIs’ or developer discussion threads turned into us talking to a brick wall. In fact, the majority of the people who would probably have incredible input to give you have either been banned from the forums or simply don’t bother anymore. If you want us to put the effort in and engage in the sorts of discussions you’re proposing, you need to show us you can acknowledge public sentiment and comment on it, even if you don’t bend to it.

Thanks fadeaway, I want to be clear this isn’t a discussion initiative. As stated back in my first post, the concept here is to simply provide more visibility by providing a list of top tier game areas we’re aware of or concerned about so it’s visible to players.

CDI is intended to be a discussion initiative, if you have feedback on that or how it (or other discussion initiatives) work please make sure to put those in the CDI thread. If your feedback is something like what I’ve proposed isn’t useful and you’d prefer more discussion initiatives, that’d be totally valid in this thread as well.

Hybarf Tics.2048:

You know Colin there is such a thing as giving people hope, without giving any specifics or dates or talk of new continents, that thing is called a pic.
You devs used to do this very thing a lot before launch. Artist like Daniel Dociu for example who has been missing in action since March 11th 2011.
Simply post future in game pics from time to time and let the player base speculate on it. It can even be a painting that has been included in the future development of the game which would give us only a vague look into the future. Don’t do it so much for me but for the rest of the player base since the silence treatment has already killed the game for me. The last L.S chapter I did Divinity’s Reach and didn’t bother finishing the rest. Since then all I do is only daily then I log out. I got all professions at 80 and all fully mapped but now the motivation to stay online is all but gone. Even for me pics would give me something to look forward to besides the usual rumor of a 2015 expansion which I simply do not believe in anymore.
Best regards an ex full time player and supporter who’s already contributed to more than 10 expansions which we have yet to hear about. I don’t regret my gems contribution they added to my enjoyment, but it’s all water under the bridge.
Make no mistake about this silence can also kill a game it has for me.

Just wanted to take a moment and say thank you for supporting Guild Wars for so long. Hopefully someday we’ll be able to tell you about things that re-ignite that excitement for you! Pictures say a thousand words, certainly an interesting idea indeed.

Hey folks just to be clear, this isn’t a thread where you list all the stuff you’d like to see in the game (we have plenty of those!)

This is a thread to discuss the idea of adding a sticky to the top of each of the big forum threads (PvP, dungeons, WvW, General discussions, etc.) where we help provide a very high level list of stuff the Gw2 Dev team is aware of with the game, and what questions/thoughts we’re giving those areas to help guide your discussions – and provide visibility into the very top tier stuff we’re aware of.

Feedback on just the idea itself as a concept please, thank you!

Please post in the Tickets for Review thread.

As posted in another thread, I got a very detailed response from the team that manages our Gem Store, and they have not been able to identify a systemic issue. I think the best thing for you to do is to submit an individual ticket so that the team can look at your personal situation and help you make the purchase(s) you desire.

Please submit a ticket by clicking “Support” at the top of this page and then clicking the “Submit a request” option. Provide as much information as possible in the web form, because that will create a ticket within the support system. You are not required to provide all the information but may leave fields blank when you cannot accurately complete them. The team should be able to help you.

As I posted in another thread, I got a very detailed response from the team that manages our Gem Store, and they have not been able to identify a systemic issue. I think the best thing for you to do is to submit an individual ticket so that the team can look at your personal situation and help you make the purchase(s) you desire.

Please submit a ticket by clicking “Support” at the top of this page and then clicking the “Submit a request” option. Provide as much information as possible in the web form, because that will create a ticket within the support system. You are not required to provide all the information but may leave fields blank when you cannot accurately complete them. The team should be able to help you.

As you’re probably aware, there were some external incidents late last week, and they may have caused some of these problems. And yet, I’m seeing that these posts are as recent as this morning. Therefore, having received a very detailed response from the team that manages our Gem Store where they looked into the matter and were not able to identify a systemic issue, I think the best thing for you to do is to submit an individual ticket so that the team can look at your personal situation and help you make the purchase(s) you desire.

Please submit a ticket by clicking “Support” at the top of this page and then clicking the “Submit a request” option. Provide as much information as possible in the web form, because that will create a ticket within the support system. You are not required to provide all the information but may leave fields blank when you cannot accurately complete them. The team should be able to help you.

I should add that according to the team, there haven’t been issues with people getting the “try again” message and getting charged for the purchase. So if you get the “try again” message, you can be confident that you do need to resubmit the purchase and that you will not be double-charged (and double gemmed ).

Remember, by some odd chance you do get more gems than you intended, set them aside (don’t spend them) and submit a ticket. The Payments Team will ensure you get a refund after they’ve retrieved the gems that processed in error.

I got a very detailed response from the team that manages our Gem Store, and they have not been able to identify a systemic issue. I think the best thing for you to do is to submit an individual ticket so that the team can look at your personal situation and help you make the purchase(s) you desire.

Please submit a ticket by clicking “Support” at the top of this page and then clicking the “Submit a request” option. Provide as much information as possible in the web form, because that will create a ticket within the support system. You are not required to provide all the information but may leave fields blank when you cannot accurately complete them. The team should be able to help you.

Lheimroo.2947:

Oh, we know Anet reads the forums. I’ll stick to my criticism of this ‘no talkies’ policy with my belief that seeking specific input earlier in the process would lead to lots fewer forums blowups, though.

So for the CDIs.. Anet, pick your own topics. Forward looking topics, as general or specific as you like.

And in general.. no offense intended, but stop acting like dopes.

You draw this huge lesson about early announcements from the precursor hunt scandal. Lesson drawn: don’t do early announcements. Instead, my lesson? ‘Keep folks in the loop when plans change or get delayed’.

You introduce a changed dungeon path and a new SAB world. Lesson drawn, “New dungeons don’t work.” – My lesson? “Fiddle with the recipe, cuz we recognize how different those two new experiences were from ‘standard’, and yet Molten Facility and SAB world 1 were massively popular”

.. and so on and so forth. Maybe you’re too terrified of user reactions, cuz you’re drawing a lot of timid conclusions.

No that isn’t the case at all.

I have taken the time to answer loads of questions in this thread and many comments around your points can be found in my previous responses.

No idea what you mean by ‘Dopes’ but overall it isn’t conducive to healthy discussion in that i Have no idea what you mean.

Hopefully you will find some of the answers to your questions and assumptions.

Chris

tigirius.9014:

Kool I appreciate it but will we be seeing these types of threads turned into stickies on essential topics like?:

#Condition damage stacking issues in open world
#Rewards system revamp and the removal of systems like DR/RNG
#Diversity in PVE (which includes weapon choices, locations/types of traits)

I think that’d certainly be one potential option, this thread is brainstorm exactly those kind of ideas if we do indeed think this concept would be useful.

minbariguy.7504:

Mike O Brien.4613:

We’ve set a clear policy in the past year: we don’t talk speculatively about future development.

ColinJohanson.2394:

“Our company policy is not to talk about what’s in development”.

Sigh. And this is why, despite the near-Herculean effort by the wonderful Chris Whitside, I feel that this latest push to improve communication is, like all other attempts before it, doomed to failure.

I understand why this policy was initially put in place. But you (as a company) are following the letter of the policy to the detriment of your relationship to your community, as opposed to following the spirit of the policy when it makes sense to do so.

Others have already mentioned that there are other ways to accomplish the end goal of not being held accountable for changes in content production that have already been announced:

• Communicate very clearly that things are subject to change (not in tiny print at the bottom of a blog post or in a later follow-up post in a forum thread). I, too, get frustrated when people cling to announcements of future content as “promises” when it is fairly obvious to most of us that they are not written in stone.

• When priorities change or problems arise, you must communicate the delay in implementation. People really only become angry and toxic when they are kept in the dark for long periods of time. This has been the result of your communication policy, and it will not change unless your policy also changes. If you keep us informed, I believe most of us will be on your side.

You are being repeatedly given feedback that your policy does not work as intended. If you do indeed listen to feedback, then do not ignore this. This one little gem could singehandedly change the way the community relates to this company for the good.

We are all going to try really hard mini. The big issue last time was lack of time. I intend for us to solve that problem first and it will let everyone know how it is going.

Your two main points are well made.

Chris

HHR LostProphet.4801:

What do you mean exactly with “summarized the key discussion points around that area we’re aware of as a dev team”?

Also, you should use the Question/Answer thread thingie, so the dev post can be seen on all pages of the thread.

So by key discussion points, I gave an example for PvP of something folks know we’re aware of above, but helped provide some more specifics for discussion. The PvP one is more detailed than maybe we could go on all topics, but helps give an idea. Other examples of things we’d provide summaries of things we’re aware of, and help provide some more details for discussion could be things like:

- Challenging content to overcome with groups.
- Character development pre and post level 80.
- Reasons to play dynamic events in the open world.
- Population imbalance and keeping match ups fun in WvW.
- Rewards for content vs. earning gold the fastest way to earn rewards.
- Why do I login every day?

etc.

Good call on Q&A, done, thank you

I’ll separate out the idea now into a practical application of what this could look like for one existing thread:

Structured PvP Forum Thread

Key Discussion Point: New Game Mode for PvP

High Level Focus Points:

- What kind of game mode(s) would be best in PvP for Gw2 on top of the current conquest game mode type given the games fast past action combat style?

- How should players be able to decide which game mode, or even which map within a game mode to play each round? Can a solution to this also solve issues with bias towards certain existing conquest maps?

- What key moments can a strong game mode have to help make it feel strategic and exciting when a key moment occurs? Can they happen every frequently enough to make each match exciting, and help provide comeback mechanics? Can these key moments provide teams multiple options to ensure different strategies for playing that can stand out and be identified?

- Can viewers clearly see and understand key moments when watching a stream and feel they are exciting without needing to understand the nuance of the combat occurring?

- Matches should be short, compelling, and easy to jump in and out of to keep the game approachable – but have layers of depth and strategy that experienced players can master.

Last Update:

- Demo versions of some potential new PvP game modes were given on an episode of Ready Up. [link goes here]

Edited or better formatting!

I’ve been brainstorming since getting home last night and discussed a bit with Chris this morning I wanted to throw out an idea on communication we could try that might help a bit ->

What if every major thread offered a dev sticky at the top that summarized the key discussion points around that area we’re aware of as a dev team? We’d track the last major update(s) to those areas that shipped live in the sticky thread, and each time a new update is made update that thread accordingly.

Some ground rules we’d have to follow:

• Per company policy (see Mike O’Brien’s post for his summary of ArenaNet’s dev communcation policy) we wouldn’t be able to discuss what is currently in development, or what progress we’re making on it. It would purely be a list of core high level topics we are aware of and think are important in Gw2.

• This would not be a discussion thread – we’ll be using the CDI for those developer and player discussions. This would be a closed sticky that simply provides a list of what high level areas we’re aware of and what we’ve last done in those areas to help provide a road map for players of things we’d like them to discuss and brainstorm. This post would be in an effort to help drive, and help create discussion.

• These lists would have no definitive time frame when they would be updated. Iterative development can be fast, it can be slow (hi precursors!) and sometimes priority’s can change over night based on player feedback, company needs, or even things that occur due to staffing changes from illness, vacation, etc.

• If we decided something that was a key discussion point has either been completed, changed, or removed from our list – we’d update the sticky thread and also leave an open discussion thread in that forum with a summary of that change of status. If it hasn’t been removed from the list, you know it’s still a core discussion point for the Gw2 development team.

• There are way, way too many discussion points in a game as big as Gw2 for us to cover all the things everyone wants to talk about. We’d simply be focusing on a handful of the very top biggest discussion points we’re concerned with. It doesn’t mean we aren’t working on other stuff, but it can at least help provide a discussion road map to the bigger picture.

• These sticky threads, and the updates when they change would be localized into all languages on all forums, to ensure we’re clearly communicating to all our fans rather than just in English.

Please keep discussion points around the policies of communication over in Mo’s “communicating with you” thread. This thread is purely for discussing the concept of these key topic point stickies.

ipan.4356:

We don’t want you to “stay within company policies” – we want you to change the policy and communicate the direction you’re going in more.

Yup as I said, I’ll pass that feedback up the chain!

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Illysharia.7286:

phys.7689:

<big snip>

its a very real statement that people have no idea what the future of gw2 holds, and that isnt working well for a lot of people (especially people who have been playing longer)

I agree, and I would add that it isn’t just the uncertain, unknown future of GW2 that is causing player friction in regards to lack of communication. They seem to have that wrapped up in a tight little bow of company policy. What about the very current issue of the last feature patch and the wall of silence that followed? I’d say that isn’t working well for a lot of people either, but it would be a thunderous understatement.

Chris, I suppose I would just like to know why feedback threads were made and then there was no reciprocal discussion. Your players made thousands of well thought out posts, with suggestions of improvements, and there wasn’t even acknowledgement by your team that our concerns were being looked into. I simply don’t understand how that choice on your end was a good decision.

I’m also going to share that my personal frustration of the Trait re-vamp, our attempts to gain answers and fixes, and then 5 months of silence was a deciding factor in making me leave your game. Not only uninstalling, but throwing the CD in the garbage. I don’t want to sound over-dramatic on that, but it is exactly what happened.

Now, understand that I love GW2. I was having a blast up until the last Feature Patch in April. But, the non-communication just killed the game for me (as well as the Trait re-vamp). I have no problems whatsoever buying another copy of your game, but I need to see if the conditions here improve. If I didn’t love the game, if I didn’t care about it’s future, then I wouldn’t have been following and participating in discussion for the last few months.

I really hope there is a turnaround. I think it’s great that you are here talking again! But, you also have to understand that a lot of ill-will came about by months silence. I’m hoping that these discussions, and the up-and-coming CDI will improve the current player/dev relationship.

Hi,

I am resposting a response i posted yesterday as it is pertinent:

’It’s worth pointing out that I had way more time to do the more PVE centric CDIs than some of the other guys and girls did. This is important because I haven’t really gone into this before. there is no doubt that some CDIs were better represented than others.

I acknowledge that that there is a time vs dev problem. If you look back at my posts you will see more details on this.

Do please understand however that just because there are no replies to feedback that we aren’t constantly reading the forums.

We have plans to stop this being an issue in regard to CDI moving forward.

Chris’

If you get a chance have a look at some of the other CDI stickies and hopefully you see just how well we can connect if we have the time.

Thanks for you feedback,

Chris

One thing to add is that we are always looking at the forums. Just because we aren’t active in the discussion doesn’t mean we aren’t reading it. This isn’t an excuse. i just wanted to clarify.

Chris

Illysharia.7286:

phys.7689:

<big snip>

its a very real statement that people have no idea what the future of gw2 holds, and that isnt working well for a lot of people (especially people who have been playing longer)

I agree, and I would add that it isn’t just the uncertain, unknown future of GW2 that is causing player friction in regards to lack of communication. They seem to have that wrapped up in a tight little bow of company policy. What about the very current issue of the last feature patch and the wall of silence that followed? I’d say that isn’t working well for a lot of people either, but it would be a thunderous understatement.

Chris, I suppose I would just like to know why feedback threads were made and then there was no reciprocal discussion. Your players made thousands of well thought out posts, with suggestions of improvements, and there wasn’t even acknowledgement by your team that our concerns were being looked into. I simply don’t understand how that choice on your end was a good decision.

I’m also going to share that my personal frustration of the Trait re-vamp, our attempts to gain answers and fixes, and then 5 months of silence was a deciding factor in making me leave your game. Not only uninstalling, but throwing the CD in the garbage. I don’t want to sound over-dramatic on that, but it is exactly what happened.

Now, understand that I love GW2. I was having a blast up until the last Feature Patch in April. But, the non-communication just killed the game for me (as well as the Trait re-vamp). I have no problems whatsoever buying another copy of your game, but I need to see if the conditions here improve. If I didn’t love the game, if I didn’t care about it’s future, then I wouldn’t have been following and participating in discussion for the last few months.

I really hope there is a turnaround. I think it’s great that you are here talking again! But, you also have to understand that a lot of ill-will came about by months silence. I’m hoping that these discussions, and the up-and-coming CDI will improve the current player/dev relationship.

Hi,

I am resposting a response i posted yesterday as it is pertinent:

’It’s worth pointing out that I had way more time to do the more PVE centric CDIs than some of the other guys and girls did. This is important because I haven’t really gone into this before. there is no doubt that some CDIs were better represented than others.

I acknowledge that that there is a time vs dev problem. If you look back at my posts you will see more details on this.

Do please understand however that just because there are no replies to feedback that we aren’t constantly reading the forums.

We have plans to stop this being an issue in regard to CDI moving forward.

Chris’

If you get a chance have a look at some of the other CDI stickies and hopefully you see just how well we can connect if we have the time.

Thanks for you feedback,

Chris

I’ll start a separate thread shortly to discussion one of the potential ideas for how we could help provide at least a bit more of a clear picture similar to CDI to help guide and discuss topics while staying within the company policies on communication development.

I’ll also make sure your feedback is passed up the chain from those who gave feedback on that specific policy.

Thanks folks!

synk.8762:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

The precursor hunt is simply something we just wasn’t ready to be discussed. Case in point therefore regarding policy.

I’d like to address this specifically, because it keeps coming up, and it illustrates a larger issue.

Regardless of whether you jumped the gun mentioning it, it’s obviously something people wanted to hear. People keep bringing it up because it’s become obvious that the route to a Legendary isn’t functional with drop/forge RNG at this point in the game. It’s become more of an economic and playtime issue than anything. I truly believe you’d be hearing about precursor crafting at this point in the game, regardless of whether you’d mentioned it or not.

Having a route to a precursor means a focused goal that people can work towards. It’s also new content in some shape or form. Similar to new PvP and WvW maps, new dungeons, new open world content, it’s representative of something the game community wants – new content and new goals. The reason people keep harping on these things that you guys mentioned two years ago is because they’re still important and relevant, now more than ever, since so much of the game has become familiar to long term players. I understand the frustration of having people hang on your every word, but please understand that these are things that the community have prioritized over others and want in the game.

And thank you to you and all the other Anet folks that have taken time to read and respond, especially on your day off. It shows a marked change for the better and is much appreciated.

Thanks for your feedback and you are exactly right. I think it is fine for us to discuss features in the CDI but discussion around Precursors etc was way to early and as such there was no point in continuing to discuss it and thus the disconnect.

Chris

Grebcol.5984:

@Ipan

I know but a small update like “its not from the table” would be nice.

I will ask the folks tomorrow.

Chris

MFoy.3284:

Mr Whiteside -

Well, After my question about the actual impact of the CDI’s it looks like several items have actually been implemented! Wonderful, I love being wrong at times. I have a couple suggestions that might make things make the next steps forward a bit easier on everyone.

o Please don’t feel the need to write a monograph wall-o-text review of the CDI accomplishments. I think a short bullet chart showing the implemented changes should be enough. Personally, I’m convinced based solely on the community response.

o I’m not sure I’d start another CDI based on my perception of your team’s current workload. Rather, I’d dust off the old summaries from prior events and somehow (magic?) give us a broad brush view of where we are and where we’re headed. The root cause of our problems is when, in the absence of information, we players begin to speculate wildly about the future.

In closing, I’d like to offer an apology for suggesting the Devs are off in a field picking flowers. That was untoward and I’m sure not the case. As a Systems Engineer living in the Silicon Valley my pressures are not your pressures; my methods are not yours.

All the best to you and yours

-M

No need to apologize Mfoy and many thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it.

Chris

cainejw.7142:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

However a number of CDIs…

Now, this is part of the problem. You say it did, but you can’t say how. Say how!

I’ll give you an example. Recently, a game was making overhaul changes to some characters. People were throwing around all sorts of great ideas, but I threw one too. In it, I said that one power or ability could increase the power of another set of abilities resulting in a wider power set usage. It allowed depth and synergy. Suddenly, when you used Power A, a whole set of powers became more powerful and more useful.

The developers did not respond with “That’s a good idea.” or “We’ll look into that.” They made the change, came back to the forums and said, “Bam! Your idea is now in the game. Look for it!”

You know what that did to me and to other players? We perked up immediately. It was clear that our feedback was directly changing gameplay. We knew something we’d done made it into the game. Personally, it made my character feel unique to me because I helped to make the character! More feedback flew in with such strangely cool ideas that people felt included in the game even more. One change. Might have already been in there for all we know, if it felt like we did it.

That is what could help. It doesn’t require being instant. You can say, “Ooh, I love that idea. I’m going to take that to someone and see if we can get that done.” If it can get done, “You got it! It’s in!” if not? “I wanted that in so much, but it’s just not doable. Sorry.” Then the players feel like even if they failed, they were involved somewhere, somehow, in the creation of the power of their character or the definition of what the character cannot do. They feel involved.

I wish the City of Heroes forums were still around. That gave is the template for how developers should interface with their community. You’re developers. We love talking to you guys because it makes us feel connected to the game on a deeper level. Talk to us like people. Joke with us, take our memes with you, etc. You do this some, but it’s really few and far between.

If you think our complaints about Necromancer are valid, jump in and say “You know, I personally agree with you. I’m going to see if I can get that changed. I can’t promise it’ll happen, but we’ll try.” You can even say, “I don’t think that Necro has a problem there, but I’ll bring it up to someone here and see what they think.”

I know you guys and ladies work. You have to do work, but part of your work is to make your players feel connected in a world of play that requires a player to feel connected at all times or else the world you create relies only on your ivory tower without any connection to the real problems. See: academia. Ivory towers.

And I keep harping on it, but ANet has got to get the gem store under control. I again point you to City of Heroes and how they used their store. You could get almost everything in the game in a relatively reasonable amount of time. The store was there as sort of a “if you want it, here it is” alternative. The Gem Store is literally the only place you can have some items at all and others within reason.

So while the developers are in their disconnected Ivory Tower, they’re putting things through the store that you can’t get anywhere else. That, to many people, looks disconnected and like the emphasis is not on developmental or quality. It’s on money. Make gems achievable in the actual game outside of gold. Make the items achievable. Make it feel like the gem store is just a side thing where you go if you want a look at a bunch of cool stuff. Stop making it a vital part of the game where you HAVE to go if you want a new outfit, a new armor, new pets, etc. One way to do this could be to have the items in the store a certain time then in the world after the initial release.

The point is, as I posted before, you gotta treat users as more than wallets. You gotta talk to users like people. Joke with us, laugh with us, take 30 minutes out of your day to reply to 2-3 threads either with content based on the game or just jokes and laughter. Join your community. Then you won’t have to push the gem store with “And you can get gold!” We will see you as people who we want to support so we’ll buy that useless, silly trinket in the store because it goes to help the developers we appreciate.

Finally, in today’s world, professionalism is dead. You’re wearing jeans and t-shirts to work. Unless you’re at the top of the ladder, you’re going polo and slacks. You guys don’t have to treat us like you’re in suits. Treat us like you’re in jeans. Be cool. Be fun. Be HUMAN.

You should probably read through the entire thread. Every one of your points as been covered and for want of a better term is old feedback now.

Thanks for taking the time to post however.

Chris

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

good morning Chris! Take your time, welcome back!

Morning Marcus and everyone.

Chris

phys.7689:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Prysin.8542:

which in hindsight can be seen as a bad policy. Just look at the dissatisfaction on these forums, that policy is the sole cause of that. […]

I understand your point, but how would you suggest to prevent future outrages about features that get announced (like the precursor hunt) and possibly scrapped later on because it doesn’t meet Anets standards?

People will scream that they’d rather want a bad implementation than nothing at all, but this would lead to a game where half-baked stuff is implemented which would lower the quality of the game as a whole.

you dont, thats what it all boils down to. Yes you create expectations you dont fullfill, but many times its worse to create no expectations than to fail to meet one. Also explaining WHY you didnt meet expectations, and HOW you plan to meet them asap is a HUGE means of dealing with expectations that arent met.

The reality is that the announcement of the precursor scavenger hunt SAVED anet for many many many months. They had a big problem boiling, and knowing it was in the works HELPED anet and players grin and bear it because they had hope for the future. Never announcing that feature would have helped no one, and hearing peoples feedback about the concept probably helped anet scrap some ideas that they may have gone with if they didnt announce that idea.

precursor hunt announcement gave anet a lot more benefit than not doing it would have done, the results were bad because they didnt deliver, the results would have been worse had they said nothing about it 1 year ago, and we still had no solutions, or if they had gone forward with a system that all feedback that came from the announcement shows would be a bad answer.

short version, for arenanet, the precursor announcement was actually a way better thing than the current system would allow, even with its negative backlash.

The precursor hunt is simply something we just wasn’t ready to be discussed. Case in point therefore regarding policy.

This said I personally feel that there is room for maneuver and a policy adjustment to be more inclusive.

I am really looking forward to seeing how the next CDI goes as that could lead to some more open discussion for sure.

Chris

P.S: Going back to bed for a bit.

Hi All,

The CDI is starting up again. How would you like the topic/s to be chosen for this round.

Here are you options for now:

1: Anet chooses.
2: You list your number 1 topic and the one with the must number of votes wins.

Note: This isn’t a call for topics just asking how to pick them(-:

Chris

Good morning all.

I am up to date on the discussion and will post my thoughts etc in a bit.

I haven’t had much sleep so I am going to try to get an hour or two and then I will be back.

Meanwhile I am going to start a thread on how we want to pick the next topic for the CDI.

Happy Sunday!

Chris

ipan.4356:

May I ask, “not allowed” by whom? You guys are the developers. Who do you need permission from?

Sorry that should say: “Our company policy is not to talk about what’s in development”.

-CJ

Romek.4201:

@colin

maby you should than not make a blogpost with things you will give us this year BUT

a blogpost with things you work on

i guess people would be happy to read things like: we work on housing but far from release, we have 3 dungeons in beta status, we had to restart work on precursor crafting and its back to alpha status ………

something like this

That would also break the company policy of what we’re allowed to discuss in regards of what is in development

Though I wonder if we went a little more broad and kept a rolling “top categorical issues” the community team communicated or owned that summarizing high level things the development team is aware of and might or might not be working on, but see’s as core fundamental issues to address, and players just had constant brainstorm threads on those topics – if it’d at least get us halfway there.

Atlas.9704:

Maybe one of the CDIs could be more of what ANet thinks is important and we sit and listen for a change? I can’t remember if this was done in the past, but personally it would help discussions in the future.

I think that’d be an interesting discussion, you’ll probably be surprised to find the “big” lists aren’t that different, it’s just that since we can’t share the projects we’re working on to solve them – it’s not clear we’re actually working on, or even aware of or worried about the issue. Worse, when people see work being done in other areas shipping rather than what seems like a core area, they assume no work is being done and no one is even aware of the other issue.

At its core, I think that’s a lot of the problem communication wise – it’s a tough nut to crack when we’re also not allowed to discuss what’s in development, but I’m sure we can find a better balance than we have currently and your suggestion at its core could be a good way to help find that balance.

Maybe the community team could keep a rolling “top over-all concerns” for core development areas of the game from the dev teams perspective? We wouldn’t be allowed to go into specifics per our rules about not discussing what’s in development, but certainly categorical summaries could help?

Anymras.5729:

…ugh, that awkward moment when the only questions you have are things that probably won’t be answered or on-topic: Whether Hobosacks (Engineer Kit backpacks) will ever not override back item visuals, and if that every-class-every-weapon thing is still in the works.

Anyway, it’s really cool that this communication thing is happening. I mean it! I know text can be difficult to ‘tone,’ but communication – actual communication like this has been – is always appreciated. Especially since it can be so difficult, whatever the reason.

.. (-: Going to make some dinner and watch Locke.

See you all tomorrow and thanks for the discussion it was fun.

Chris

Atlas.9704:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Morning All,

You asked me to be honest so I am going to be. I am starting to feel like doing another CDI just isn’t worth the frustration, huge amount of time and heartache.

As i have said many many times before getting the logistics around communication right is extremely important. Time is precious and anything that can be done to make every second more valuable is paramount. Any time a developer spends on CDI is time away from the game. The benefit however is huge in terms of the products evolution so it is an extremely difficult balancing act.

Chris

As a developer I sympathize with your frustrations.
There’s too many times I’ll listen to a client use their “client speak” about what they want while my brain tries to translate the problem into “dev speak”.

All that time used could have been used for something constructive (IMO) like coding, maybe finding that blasted bug they will eventually discover, or getting a soda as I rage at the potentially new project that will last a month or more just on pure committee.

Even though my kneejerk reaction would be “maybe if the CDI is a headache we shouldn’t do it” I also get what you’re saying.

ANet needs to see where the community thinks we need fixes, then internally compares them with what ANet sees, and eventually something comes out of it.

Maybe one of the CDIs could be more of what ANet thinks is important and we sit and listen for a change? I can’t remember if this was done in the past, but personally it would help discussions in the future.

If ANet is more concerned about (example) Living world story satisfaction and folks are still wondering why no mounts/ duels/ non gem store skins, the community can at least see the latter being well off your radar at this time.

I’ll still contribute to CDIs if I have something worthwhile, but I wanted to let you know that you have my sympathies during these hectic times.

Thanks for your feedback and understanding.

it’s all good I understand the frustration.

Chris

HHR LostProphet.4801:

The (First World) Problem of GuildWars 2
The real problem with GW2 is that the flaws are multi-dimensional and sometimes that big, that they affect nearly every part of the game. Many of these flaws are so huge that they probably can’t be removed until ANet is willing to rework huge portions of the game to please players who have played this game a long time now, the non-casual gamers.
And I honetly don’t think this will ever happen.

Some initial information:

I’ve played this game now since release and dumbed more than 4k hours in this game. Thus, I wouldn’t describe me as casual player. All “flaws” I am going to list and analyze will only become obvious after multiple, multiple hours in-game time. If you’re new to GuildWars 2 or if you don’t want to stay “forever”, you can happily ignore my concerns, since you wont be limited by the “flaws” I’ll list.

But let’s look for the flaws:

GW2 Manifesto
No Grinding! That was one of the promises GW2 tries to achieve. But how?

1. Currencies as reward instead of items. There is no content dedicated to farm special items. This bares the risk of dominating currencies. We have the problem with gold. Except of fractal skins, everything can be bought with gold or requires no preparations at all.
2. RNG Drops. You can farm everywhere and nowhere because the RNG assures that you always have the same small chance of getting what you want.
3. Diminishing Returns. This actively prevents anyone from farming anything effectively.

Casual Friendly! What it did to the game:

1. Easy content. Anything can be completed with every profession or gear. It may take longer but it’s not impossible. This leads to the fact that there is no challenge in the game and many people get bored quickly. It also limits build diversity.
   Since there is no defensive required, everyone is compelled to maximise their DPS and there can be only one build for each class offering the most damage.
2. Simple AI. Stacking in corners. Nuff said. If I’m recalling correctly, mobs used to walk out of AoEs as example. But this got scrapped before the game shipped.

Balanced Economy! This is how it backfires:

1. Limiting item/currency creation. This ensures that the economy doesn’t get flooded with gold. But because of this, events grant almost no reward and dungeons also grant low reward. Entire PvE maps become redundant because there is nothing to do that grants acceptable reward.
2. Everything can be traded. This also leads to the dominating role of gold. Everything can be bought with gold.
3. Gems can be converted to gold. This, in combination with the dominating role of gold as currency and in combination with the low reward from in-game activities, leads to the fact that it would be more rewarding goldwise, to work in RL to buy gems, rather than to farm in-game to get what one wants.

ArenaNet as company
There are also issues related with the way ANet works as a company:

1. Small Staff. We can see this being an issue on the basis of patchcyles and the age of the content. New content gets only developed in small bits, no huge updates since release, bugs reamin unfixed for several months.
2. Balance. This would also apply to the small staff, but it deserves a separate bullet point. The amount of skills got reduced drastically compared to GW1, yet the balance is still a mess. Countless traits and utilities remain completely unused, there are only one or two “competitive” builds for each class and broken builds like HamBow Warrior, Decap Engie or PU Mesmer remain untouched for far too long.
3. Wrong Ambitions. ANet tries to go it’s own way, tries to push PvP into ESports, tries to satisfy the PvE community with temporary content aka. Living Story, rather than working on popular modes like GvG or delivering permanent content for PvE. Most people would even pay for more PvE content. Not to say ANet shouldn’t be allowed to aim for those goals, but they should address the issues the game has, like old, stale content by delivering new content, rather than to stave off the community with half-baked permanent content.
4. Missing Professionalism. I don’t want to upset anybody, I just suggest to read following thread: Biconics can’t carry GW Franchise.
5. Unloved aspects of the game. See Dungeons. They almost never got (and probably will get) any love.

Note i won’t be replying on the forum to this excellent post as I have asked if we can speak on the phone so I can have a deeper discussion.

Chris

P.S: I have had to delete some of it to be within count sorry.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

zenleto.6179:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

On a separate topic I can’t get over how good this fan made video is.

I mention it because i am watching it again atm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gHsliMTzhg

Chris

This is wonderful, thanks for putting it in.

It makes up for the sour taste from the Forum -1 I got from page 3. Watch out for those Chris, with the liberation of communication

I have 2 already (-:

Chris

And yeah it is really well done. Great level of understanding of the story.

Chris

zenleto.6179:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

On a separate topic I can’t get over how good this fan made video is.

I mention it because i am watching it again atm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gHsliMTzhg

Chris

This is wonderful, thanks for putting it in.

It makes up for the sour taste from the Forum -1 I got from page 3. Watch out for those Chris, with the liberation of communication

I have 2 already (-:

Chris

Aeromu.9134:

CDIs aren’t worth developer time because all we have learned from the first ones we have done is that you don’t have time to go through them anyways. I wouldn’t want to read about work when I am not at my job and I don’t expect you guys to do it either. I do expect our comments to be read and the good non-toxic ones to be passed on to you or management by a community team member. I don’t see the community team doing their job well enough that you shouldn’t have to even look at the forums. There seems to be a disconnect there. I hope that you guys move forward to a transparent way of communication because I love the game and I hope the best for it. At this point, depending on how you continue and move forward with the communication will determine if you can keep myself and I am sure others playing the game and/or buying gems.

It’s worth pointing out that I had way more time to do the more PVE centric CDIs than some of the other guys and girls did. This is important because I haven’t really gone into this before. there is no doubt that some CDIs were better represented than others.

I acknowledge that that there is a time vs dev problem. If you look back at my posts you will see more details on this.

Do please understand however that just because there are no replies to feedback that we aren’t constantly reading the forums.

We have plans to stop this being an issue in regard to CDI moving forward.

Chris