Guild Wars 2

Alliance names, just use the abbreviation instead the long name on top of players.

Just make alliances to go with the names, not the current linking, where not the names hidden are the problem – but the worlds being thrown around and belong nowhere. All players deserve a permanent home, that is fundamental to RvR, there is no reason to fight otherwise.

You just want to add new linking material. Who would transfer into such things and why, and even if some would do for a while, the rest will remain the same problematic mess as it is.

The only way to solve it is by creating teams anew, focused around WvW guilds: 2-3 NA guilds, 1-2 OCX, SEA, EU at least. Then allow each new team to recruit additional players to fill up their numbers (with non-guild players). This would be a start, then work together with the teams and they will tell you what can be done next to help most.

The ideea is good in theory, though calling it “New Worlds” seems to confuse many; it’s about creating more, smaller groups – call it alliances maybe – that can be moved (linked) around as a single entity (because some players want to stay together as “community”, they will be “conserved” into these cells), balancing overall population numbers, while still keeping community cells intact (friends, guilds, followers).

Creating these cells, as many of them as needed, would be a good first step… but in time, these cells would grow as large or even larger, than what we have now. Simply because: there is no way to stop the MAJORITY to want to join the winning side, cell or alliance or world or whatever is that.
So this ideea will lead to nowhere…

The current structure has to go. There will be never balance otherwise.

Why?
1. You are trying to preserve “communities” that at core are tiny, noncompetitive – not without the bandwagoners that are there just because they are currently “winning”.
Very few active players are left that started ~3 years ago, on the same server they are faithful to now. Not enough to make their world competitive. The rest just transferred there (and can do it again if that will lead to a better game), and many have multiple accounts on many servers – this alone makes ALL your efforts futile: these players play where they want, most likely on the server that is winning (except a few of course, but this is a numbers game). Check accounts, compare IP and so on.
2. The player desires are very dividing:
a. hates “blobs” and want small scale vs. want permanent huge battles
b. wants to have “epic” siege wars for hours (defending or attacking) vs. wants to fight without siege (or just short time siege use)
c. wants 20 vs. 20 (add or remove numbers) vs. wants full map blob vs. anything
d. the list goes on…
No way to please all these wants, without upsetting the opposites. There is varied degree of tolerance towards unwanted parts, but the preferences are clear.

This was different at start, before megaservers and when these wants were not so clear (call it “maturity”). Now “new blood” is scarce, and mostly go to winning sides, call it bandwagon maybe, it’s just normal to want to join the “best”, especially when you are newbie.

Solution: a new realm vs. realm system. Patching the old is not possible anymore: doing so upsets all categories, except those currently “winning” (which is temporary), and leads to losing players.

You need new worlds indeed, but not as addition to the current mess, but has to be new. That needs good rules, well mantained constant balancing (the old was abandoned so long that ended in an unfixable mess). Megaserver has to be it’s source of new recruits, anyone has to be able to join any guild or alliance from any former old world.

How that new system will be can be debated and decided, the current communication it’s excellent props to the new WvW team at Anet. Everyone won’t be pleased and can’t be, but the aim hast to be to save the game mode, though in a new form, that can be
1. fairly better balanced, designed from scratch to achieve this – no. 1 priority – thus keeping every side competitive
2. rewarding – whether gold, or special items, including long term work to obtain ascended and legendaries for participation, and so on

Zenith.6403:

Aeowia.7214:

“During prime time hours, the multiplier would always be at it’s maximum of 3”
Why would be that so called “prime time” treated differently, than the rest?!

Because they want to have equality for player time. One person in 60-man zerg during prime time contributes jack **** for score. Same person catapulting undefended keeps three in the morning would make their server win the matchup and create five thousand point difference in score. Been there, done that. It’s not fair way to give such power to players who play in different time periods. This is why score has to scale with general player activity.

I understand the reasons and agree that it is a problem, I even support changes and ask for changes. This part is fine and fair: “score has to scale with general player activity”.

What I’m against is any form of discrimination, based on a time zone one plays for example. Don’t make those players feel less.

The rule must be the same for every time zone: for example, based on activity level. Without favoring “prime time” time zone, based on server location, as in “During prime time hours, the multiplier would always be at it’s maximum of 3”. No. Let prime time have the same rules: unrestricted multiplier.

This is just the scoring though — this won’t bring players into outmanned maps. Without having close to equal numbers, all this scoring talk is futile: we will still know which server will win, before the match starts, or within a very short time afterwards – and all that will be because COVERAGE. That has to be distributed evenly FIRST of all, by resetting and then creating new servers, then all this transferring around kept under control.
If not, will still be outmanned vs full map.

Solve the coverage problem first: distribute the players evenly. That should be the first step. Even a perfect scoring is meaningless now, there can’t be “competition” while the current coverage differences are still in place.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

• Reduce the need for 24 hour coverage by reducing the effects of off-hours capping (night capping)
  • It’s not okay that the time periods with the smallest number of active players have the largest impact on the score
  • Of course we don’t want to alienate players who play during these period, off-hours coverage will still matter, it just will no longer be the primary factor in determining which world wins any given matchup

• During prime time hours, the multiplier would always be at it’s maximum of 3.
• During off hours, the multiplier might stay at 3 or drop to 2 or 1, depending on on activity level.
• It’s important to include map populations as a factor, to make the system more fair for off hours players and its important to include time-of-day as a factor to prevent a winning team from trying to keep the score muliplier low by exiting WvW

Those are the worse ideeas and will end a 24/7 game mode. You are aware of that, right?

“During prime time hours, the multiplier would always be at it’s maximum of 3”
Why would be that so called “prime time” treated differently, than the rest?!

“off-hours coverage will still matter, it just will no longer be…”
No, won’t matter.

I don’t think the vast majority of “off hour” players will accept it. Why would anyone play in a game that discriminates, based on time zones?
I will stop here, but it’s simply infuriating.

Treat ALL your players with the same measure or make it an NA time zone exclusive game. Or create 2 tiers (6 servers) NA evening exclusive, closed during “off hours”, and 3 servers that are closed during NA, or any variant… but in any case — same rule for everyone.

P.S. And don’t forget to balance population numbers, we frequently have outmanned vs. full map currently. It’s that a different topic? Score fixed first, balance only after?

Ragnarox.9601:

Only problem with ele staff is when they cast meteor shower they can interrupt it and meteor shower still drops for full duration.

That’s false. I know, I do that many times, being forced to interrupt, and never because want to interrupt.
“Movement interrupts the channeling time, resulting in fewer meteors”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Meteor_Shower

Tip: Don’t talk about things you have no ideea.

“Please Nerf”

Ask for balance, ask to be fair – for both sides. Never ask “nerf”.

Already staff ele is useless in 1vs1, needs a group. It’s made for group support.

Air – Static was already nerfed and with current stability changed (which is great change btw) almost useless to waste time with static – air attunement has nothing useful thus.
Earth – The only reason to go there is Magnetic Aura mostly, nothing offensive
Water – this surely won’t kill anyone, it’s about heals
Fire – this is the only left, a slow autoattack, Lava Font good but nothing OP if the enemy keeps moving, Burning Retreat like most teleports many times is executed in the same place, 0 movement, it’s an evade when works…

So staff ele it’s about Meteor Shower… which takes forever to cast, it’s RNG based where will hit, so not all impacts hit a siege on wall, provided that can reach it (that’s rare case with well placed human built siege).

Think about giving something, when nerfing. The nerfed static field removed most CC from ele, with unlimited targets could hit a few non-stab classes, but now the chance is extremely low to find something non-stab, maybe at the end of fight when all is decided already. Also the mirror back received CC traits asks for you having stab to even dare using it.

Fire is all that left, and some water. Pretty close to being useless. Think about the bigger picture and not just the precious siege-humping part. You need numbers balanced, not ability to win outnumbered vs zerg – because you already lost if that happens, you can’t cap anything from the zerg while outnumbered – so the score will favor coverage anyway. At least don’t ruin all classes for an imbalance that has nothing to do with class skills.

Anvil.9230:

And yes, even if I think the mechanism should be tried, if we discover that in practice it’s to easy to abuse threshold effect, abandon it and look for something else to manage extreme situations, as the momentary absence of a team.

Very useful OP and this quote as well: something has to be done, solutions are needed, courage to try out variants and keep improving them, or remove those that doesn’t work.

Also something has to be done with balancing numbers – each timezone considered separately (not just overall total like it is now); by creating two kind of player categories:

1. bound to a server, can’t use the transfer feature
This is for players who value loyalty to a community above everything else
(Allow every WvW player account to define a permanent home server they want to stay loyal to, losing the right/option to ever transfer – they can be transferred in extreme cases by Anet, eventuallly, when their home will be merged again.)

2. available to transfer, can be encouraged with rewards to go where balance asks for
This is for players who value action, fights, balance (siding with underdog), and so on.
Those who won’t define a home server, will be considered “mercenaries” or undecided (doesn’t matter the name), and they can transfer or can be transferred by Anet, and used as balancing players, when needed (with their consent when possible, or given rewards if they accept to transfer to certain world in need of players, same ideea used to balance a sPvP match when becomes one-sided)"

Then start moving players, and don’t forget about incentives.

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

morrolan.9608:

Lurock Turoth.9085:

morrolan.9608:

DillyRoX.4790:

DeWolfe.2174:

littlemunster.1059:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Straegen.2938:

BG finally wins a week with the help of the strongest T8 server after months of losing and proceeds to declare victory. Good to know.

Lol is the word on YB really that BG is winning because of ET? I mean we like those guys, but come on lol.

Yes. ET saved BG. We all know that. But it’s better that they saved BG than YB who only knows how to do siege wars.

The plan right now is to let TC get to T1. This way it’s TC and YB in the same match with BG. That match, with that much siege, it just couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of people.

Muahahahaha….. MUAHAHAHAHAaaaaaaa…..!!!!!!!!!

Seen as your account is on Jade Quarrowcart, I´m sure you know how used we already are to dealing with siege.

Think you’re confusing JQ with YB or maybe TC

Have ye met CloudFly? cause kitten son….no one chucks AC’s for 5 people like CloudFly…

Cloudfly is solely a pugmander and hardly representative of the server as a whole.

Cloudfly is the JQ SEA version of Yak’s Bend DK. He carries JQ much like DK carries YB. Cloudfly builds more ACs than DK does and overall DK is a better commander considering Cloudfly text commands. Yet still he represents the core of JQs coverage especially now.

Cloud Fly actually uses TS, since… months ago. But text command is there too and it’s pretty useful for newbies. Just an fyi. About who builds more AC’s and despite that who is “the better commander”… my goodness, this forum is funny sometimes…

TPMN.1483:

toxic community element …
positive, supportive atmosphere

Think about that. I’m still positive, supportive towards my team, despite some “toxic elements” or what not imperfection. Not that I matter much. But if one can’t help, at least can avoid doing harm: be supportive, on your future server.

If I ever will transfer off or stop playing, will be because me: blaming others just doesn’t help, ever. Only kindness can change the word, to better. Nothing else.

Devils Toy.9205:

It’s about the blatant disrespect of other guilds, commanders, players that was shown. Over the last few months I saw more and more commanders, guilds not willing to work together, only “taking care of themselves”, “we are here to get our fights and leave, who cares if we lose that keep or garri”, attitude. Commanders thinking EB was their’s and telling others to get off the map and those same commanders then not running in public TS but yet wanting to call everyone garbage because they kept getting wiped. People asking for help and certain commanders basically telling them to f off because they only want their fights. And God forbid you bring any of this up in forums. You get laughed at, flamed, etc. All I can say is you reap what you sow and sadly JQ is in a terrible state now because of this. Unfortunately some of these people who created this mess decided to jump ship and go do their thing on other servers instead of staying and be made to suffer with those who did stay. And I commend those who are trying to tough it out. JQ was a good server, with a good community at one time and I know there are many who want that again.

Those were not Jade Quarry, just bandwagon transfers who care about nobody and “just looking for fights”.

Jade Quarry are those who put “realm first”. Just the faithful. Doesn’t matter if one transferred in or was always there: all those loyal to their greater team are Jade Quarry. The rest are not, never were, they are just wanderers; and despite their great help at times, they should not be confused with those who care. Not that I condemn their ways, though as in the example quoted, they can do a great deal of harm to the host server, even if unwillingly… and then move on to the next “victim”. But it’s a valid way of playing the game sadly, because without realm loyalty, a RvR game is meaningless.

“Punishing” the faithful, for these elements, it’s a huge mistake.

Isle of Janthir, our current linked server allies are a great blessing and they can be wholeheartedly considered part of the team, though they were a different realm. But they fight for us and we can depend on them, unlike “fight only” groups that just transit for a while and then move on, doing more harm than good, in the long term. Know your friends, and don’t confuse them with strangers.

We still have many loyal players on other servers, with good reasons to be there; since the game mode became stale and they needed action. Those craving fights, can’t survive for long without. Since the servers are locked, all they can do is pray for us, if they believe in prayers.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Aeowia.7214:

snip

alright, so how would you fix it?

What I’m writing now it’s not WvW exclusive: the reason for staying, has to be deep inside us. It’s either there, or not. It’s about principles and feelings. If one has them, will stand by the team, no matter what. Just follow your heart – that’s all I can say. You either love a community, or not. If you do, there won’t be a “why”. Friendship or love doesn’t ask why.

I choose to stand by my team, no matter how weird some of them are or what they do. Because I am Jade Quarry, just as much as they are. Because many players are friendly and very helpful, even those who can’t even read english. Not everyone can participate in highly organized teamspeak play, for many valid reasons. Always will be a large number who can’t, on every server. But they are still there, waiting for someone who conquers them with kindness, treats them well, and doesn’t just try to rule.

“Don’t walk behind me; I may not lead. Don’t walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend.”

Many reasons can be found to leave, and just as many for staying… but reasons doesn’t matter, except one: who you want to be… One can’t run away forever. We are in this world, to make it a better place. Until we breathe, we can’t give up… I want to die while fighting for this, not while running away.

Devils Toy.9205:

Actually, a lot of the people who left (and not all of us bandwagoned to YB and TC) tried to help fix the issues we were hollering about and were met with brick walls by a lot of the so-called “leaders” of JQ […] Meanwhile these people creating the problems are looked at as pillars of the community. It is always someone else’s problem, not ours, correct? Well now it is JQ’s problem.

There are no “so-called leaders”, “pillars of the community”, you mean the TS maintenance people likely, and they do nothing else.
JQ is just the players, without leaders, and you were one of those players. It’s just a game where people play for a while and that’s it.

Maybe that’s the problem, that there are no leaders and nobody was there to assume that role, and “NA” had no spokesperson to answer. Why are some people live in an imaginary world? Role-playing some organization? Nobody has any kind of “power” or any semblance of it, except the commanders when leading… if and when the players are willing to listen. Guilds and players organizing events, yes. But someone responsible for the whole mess or an entire timezone… really? It’s nice to have an Obama to blame, when something goes wrong, isn’kitten

But then that explains your problems, if you expected the TS maintenance people to “lead” the server or answer complaints about the score. You were barking to the wrong tree. There is nobody else, but those who log in and play, the poor pugs and guilds that try to work together somehow. We are all alone… though, we are still JQ — together.

There is no abstract entity called “JQ” that can be called to repent, change it’s ways and so on. There are only Jade Quarry PLAYERS, all individual entities, each of them equal and free, part of the team.

We, the players, are not “loyal subjects” of the TS or website admins, which some of you call wrongly “leadership”. They just provide a service. Anyone can step up and provide an alternative service, if those already in place are bad (no ideea honestly). Why would anyone let a realm die, because some service providers? Nobody else want to do the work of setting up an alternative service, create rules, and then pay for? Then be blamed for not pleasing one guild or the other, when they start fighting over rules? Always someone will want it done differently.

The world around us is not always perfect — we can run away and look for another place… or stay and fight, to make it a better home.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Aeowia.7214:

Many JQ players answered the call to fight the evil empire that gathered on TC

evil empire lol? you guys outnumbered us at pretty mich all times of day. pretty sure jq is the evil empire, and tc is like some hill tribe scrounging for food in the surrounding environs.

Not TC is the “evil empire” (and that’s a joking role-playing reference to Star Wars), but the the evil empire that gathered on TC
It’s about that “alliance” that moves from server to server, many of them have multiple accounts, and when they had enough with the host server, they just move on to the next one. They are quite “popular” and “admired” for their cross realming, that is bannable offense in some RvR games:

“Cross realming generates great faction imbalance. Destroys ANY semblance of realm pride…. a core foundational principle of faction vs. faction conflict and makes factions almost completely irrelevant.”

Since WvW was in dying state for so long, realm pride (loyalty to your greater team) or “server pride” was weakened and by some viewed as a clutch, a chain that prevents them having fun by moving to where there are “fights”, actually just frequently moving around to have the chance of fighting different opponents, since the game became stale and pointless – and still it is – WvW still has no competition, one can know who will win a match-up before that even starts: coverage still decides everything, linking servers did nothing to evenly distribute coverage across servers and timezones.

The lately so called “evil empire” alliance it’s a group of guilds with questionable ethical values, and their bandwagon followers, with enough numbers to push any server they choose to (they always do that on a server that has the potential to complement their forces, so nobody will be able to stand against without huge effort and time investment), and then proceed to obliterate every matchup, until they get bored again and switch to another host victim (that will be abandoned to fall afterwards).

Is this bad, or against the game rules? Here – nothing is certain; in a game mode like this, abandoned for so long, many are bored to death and start doing strange things. Because they can do it. Some decided to fight them, others were forced to, or had to play alongside.

Now it’s all over, Anet started making changes. It’s a huge mess so far, there is still no equalized coverage and no competition, no reward either for winning that competition, no rewards to encourage loyalty to your realm and encourage players moving where coverage is needed. Different timezones are still outmanned on most servers, and the hope that these will be over one day, slowly fades away.

Royal Punisher.2891:

just bad e.e in DH and being out number constantly by the other two severs and finally week after. 1 stayed and 1 sever went up and now we put up against another sever that outnumbers us by far constantly and another long week which is so bull and dum where was that you drop fast or move up fast in tiers? and i cant transfer servers because im going to college and barely make extra money to spend on a game that the severs cost 1800 gems which is 200 gems more than 20 bucks and i barely make gold in game to turn into gems. why to ruin one of my fav. games

This. When the match-ups are imbalanced, when your server is outmanned in a timezone, the WvW is not fun, and it’s just normal for leaving such game, and look for fun elsewhere.

This is a bleeding wound, this is why WvW loses players, a major cause. Losing a match can be fun if you at least can fight back, have a slight chance to compete. Anet should log in to outmanned timezones and see for themselves, please do it. You need to understand which problem is the most urgent.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Yes how dare NA people on a NA server cry out for their server wide efforts to be worth more then a few OCX/SEA people brought by other server for a free win during off “NA” hours.

#Logic

Exactly this. It’s either everyone equal or not. The “few OCX/SEA people brought by other server” has to cease, they are not slaves worth less… They want balanced match up too. They want to have fun, just like NA. And don’t even start that NA is better, they don’t all stack in one server, or other such superiority argument – they do.

Balance either belongs to all, or to none. Coverage has to be fixed by moving players, and not by making some players effort worth less.

Weli.4568:

Aeowia.7214:

“Reducing off time mattering”… no. One rule for every timezone, anything else is wrong.

Don’t even name a server here, it’s irrelevant. If every server must die, so be it… but without balance WvW will die surely, while there is no competition at all. There can’t be compromises: balance comes first, rest pales in comparison.

Also one rule for everyone – no discrimination. Adjusting point ticks based on number of fights, or similar, that’s fine. Based on a timezone? No.

Funny, I pretty much see only JQ people defending off time capping.
But you don’t find it dumb that mu is decided when minority of players or barely any is online?

As I said, this has nothing to do with a server: the rule has to be same for everyone.

And I don’t defend off time capping – if that means capping empty objectives – no matter in which timezone that is happening. But if you mean favoring one timezone over another: that’s wrong in a 24/7 game. Unless this game becomes an NA evening game for 4 hours in the evening and put offline for the rest of the time.

Don’t make other timezones feel like 2nd class citizens. It’s not “dumb” if a match-up is decided 24/7. Instead ask for equal coverage.

Many JQ players answered the call to fight the evil empire that gathered on TC, before this so called balance patch arrived. But most JQ players already left the game, stopped playing, so the huge playerbase means just unused accounts now.

It’s up to Anet to really balance the game. So far we have excellent SEA coverage, some OCX, but lack EU and NA. It’s not just JQ that is outmanned in certain timezones, and the current linking system does nothing to address this.

Anet has to come up with a better plan quickly, because the players in outmanned timezones – on all servers – can’t have fun playing WvW, and thus will sooner or later leave, resulting in even less overall WvW population. Blaming players for the imbalance is fine to some extent, but useless: this needs to be fixed and now, not a few months later.

This thread will be clearly deleted, so have fun until then, because some players are so narrow-minded about what a thri-realm game means, how the WvW scoring system works and why things are happening, that is almost entertaining.

Always happens when someone is happy with listening to “one side” only, wanting that version to be correct… but rarely it is, if ever.

Just about BG: no way they are leading this PPT race currently because ET, though they helped (which is great, good job for working together, WvW needs that spirit). Blackgate it’s one of the most powerful servers, though the game being almost dead for so long, made most playing something else… same as on most other servers. The giants are asleep… but when a few wake up, the heroes of old times – then can be seen by all, why they were at top for so long, why WvW was full of amazing battles 24/7 about 2 years ago and so. Not the boring backcapping on empty maps that happened lately… but multiple maps queued and huge battles waged, for every objective.

Blackgate is the last bastion of the old times in T1, that some say, survived due to “hibernation”. Of course that part of this is a myth, many heroes are long gone and never returned. But a few are still there, giving legitimacy to aim for that first place in WvW, unlike these newly stacked soulless bandwagon servers that appeared lately.

From your old rivals and friends on Jade Quarry: heartfelt salutes Blackgate! May your reign last until we return, because no other server deserves it more.

Weli.4568:

Sooo… Your answer is more server stacking? You can’t forcefully spread your coverage around the clock as people have real life commitments such as work, studies or maybe even family.

Reducing off time mattering in mu’s is obviously more logical answer.

“Reducing off time mattering”… no. One rule for every timezone, anything else is wrong.

“You can’t forcefully spread your coverage around the clock” That’s true. We, the players, we can’t. But Anet can and should and MUST do it quick. It’s the only way to achieve balance: (close to) same numbers for all servers — in every timezone.

Don’t even name a server here, it’s irrelevant. If every server must die, so be it… but without balance WvW will die surely, while there is no competition at all. There can’t be compromises: balance comes first, rest pales in comparison.

Also one rule for everyone – no discrimination. Adjusting point ticks based on number of fights, or similar, that’s fine. Based on a timezone? No.

Merry.7290:

For the record, some of us are happy with the merges; I speak for a lot of IoJers merged with JQ. Which means we don’t want to be moved every three months.

A sentiment that is shared by many JQ too, IoJ players are most welcome. But for those who are motivated by loyalty to their home realm, moving is a painful process. We understand that balancing requires it, but should happen only once or be extremely rare.

An option would be to allow every WvW player account to define a permanent home server they want to stay loyal to, losing the right/option to ever transfer – they can be transferred in extreme cases by Anet, eventuallly, when their home will be merged again.
Those who won’t define a home server, will be considered “mercenaries” or undecided (doesn’t matter the name), and they can transfer or can be transferred by Anet, and used as balancing players, when needed (with their consent when possible, or given rewards if they accept to transfer to certain world in need of players, same ideea used to balance a sPvP match when becomes one-sided)

This would be sensitive to do, to avoid the pain, felt by those who care. Being faithful to your realm it’s the cornerstone of a RvR game – that is what makes it matter, not the fights, not the winning, not even the “fun” of fooling around in a game. But we all play for different reasons and we all should respect that, there is no reason not to.

Change is needed, even more drastic population rebalancing – because currently there is NO balance at all, most servers are still outmanned in different timezones – and that’s a HUGE red sign that Anet must solve quickly, or all this pain (for some at least) was in vain.

One rule for all timezones – and then it’s fair.

Balancing should be done with spreading players around equally on all servers, encouraging with rewards to do so or other means, and limiting numbers on map equally for all sides. But anything is done, has to be the same rule applied to everyone.

Currently there are huge imbalances, timezone coverage gaps, between different servers. Server linking did nothing to address these and even made it worse.

It’s not something that the players should solve, they will always bandwagon to the winning server, because most players want to “win”, no matter how pointless it is. They need reasons to do it – and that has to come from ArenaNet, from the game design. Most will give up and rather abandon the game, than spread equally on all servers – no matter which timezone we are speaking of. Some have reasons like playing with friends, even if that means PvDooring, but the rest is just joining them, because they have bigger zerg, until nobody is left on the other side(s)

Anet needs a plan to spread players equally and mantain that balance. Encourage that with rewards and more, while preventing the opposite happening. This has to be addressed in game design, won’t just happen magically. No matter of timezone, applies to all of them, bandwagon players are the majority in every timezone, and those looking for challenging conditions barely exist.

Most players have to be “forced” into a balanced competition, or they will just all transfer into a single server for a “win”, killing the game mode for themselves and everyone.

They started doing useful changes, but the game mode is not saved yet… the surgery is still underway. Not everyone is pleased, which is normal: there has to be sacrifices, things cut, bleed and removed alltogether. Until WvW is born again.
The old servers have to go, replaced by a new system – balanced in every timezone. Loyalty transferred to the new teams. This linking system is not enough, the imbalance is just as great as before – there is still no competition at all, and unless the last weakest has a chance for 1st place – WvW will be back to the same empty state very soon.

The WvW team deserves support for trying. They need more courage though, to cut deeper. When all matches all over already on Monday (NA tiers only, no ideea about EU) there is no more reason to play, except because we still try to hope, that more and better changes will be made.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

By far the biggest contributors is large scale combat involving high target player skills…
… there’s no single big offender, it’s a combination of thousands of smaller parts.

At least ArenaNet understands that correctly, nothing to add.

(It’s server lag we talk here specifically, as in the server CPU being overloaded.)

Optimizations are nice, but there always will be a limit where the lag makes the game unplayable. Currently 3-way 60×60×60 fights are way beyond that level. The server barely can handle a 40×40×40 battle – if everyone is spamming skills of course, not just stand there.
You should consider reducing maximum numbers allowed per server per map, though that won’t please everyone, “we want 80 players without lag”, make it happen… right. New games start building custom engines to support large battles, GW2 engine was not made for that, and should stick with a number that can play without extreme lag.

“Stop blobbing” is not a solution. We are looking to play a large scale team based war game, not small scale… 200k vs 300k or even larger battles happened in the samurai era. 200 soldiers it’s a small contingent… so we are far, far away from really “large” scale fights. EVE Online comes closer, but that’s a space ship affair.

Either limit numbers to 40 or so per side, or… let there be extreme lag in really big fights. Since there are almost no calls at all to limit max. numbers – seems that the players prefer having 60-80 blobs… so they can have reasons blaming Anet because lag. Indeed, we all are to blame, because both sides: Anet and the players — want the impossible.

Currently population imbalances (across 24/7 timezones) are still the top problem, it’s absolutely pointless playing for a win: the differences are unsurmontable, despite this server linking.

You did well with these latest changes, but they are by far not enough: keep doing it until last place server really can compete for 1st place. Otherwise the players will give up, already seen a lot exasperated. The key is to make it competive again – one side matches are not fun – and currently all 3 tiers NA are completely one-sided, as in not winnable by 2 out of 3 servers in each tier. If not, all this effort is futile – not being able to play to win – makes it pointless.

Maybe as others before me proposed, it’s time for the old servers to go (initial home players are rare anyway, rest is just bandwagon, and we all can start to be loyal to our new team), and start over. Allow a way for friends from the old communities and friends in general, including guilds and so on – to gather on the same new server/alliance, but balance has to be the first priority, above anything else.

Thanks for the poll, very good ideea.

Currently population imbalances (across 24/7 timezones) are still the top problem, it’s absolutely pointless playing for a win: the differences are unsurmontable, despite this server linking.

You did well with these latest changes, but they are by far not enough: keep doing it until last place server really can compete for 1st place. Otherwise the players will give up, already seen a lot exasperated. The key is to make it competive again – one side matches are not fun – and currently all 3 tiers NA are completely one-sided, as in not winnable by 2 out of 3 servers in each tier. If not, all this effort is futile – not being able to play to win – makes it pointless.

When both can’t be satisfied with a change, then one has to be favored. Here it is WvW as a whole vs. me as a single player (or each of us with our individual needs).

If WvW fails, there won’t be game for no one. The whole WvW has to be put above individual needs. Or any of you see another way, a better solution? I hope you wish both. That includes the well-being of the game mode. True? What I’m saying: put the interests of WvW above, or there won’t be something to “long queue” for.

So far it’s about trying to find solutions. If there are none, the game mode will end. How these should be solved — that is the question. Any of you can think about anything else, a better way? Because WvW needs it. What is tested now is a start. How should be improved?

And yes, I prefer to “throw away money”, if WvW can be saved for most other players, even if I have to find another for myself. There has to be sacrifices sometimes, when it’s not possible another way. Life is more than just games; knowing that at some point I did the right thing, it’s a far greater reward. WvW has to be saved, for most players at least — even if cannot be for everyone.

Keviin Snow.5760:

1st come 1st serve ?

Yes.
No places are reserved or limited.
Everyone gets in queue and enters in that order (or instantly if there’s none).
There’s a map limit of about 40 to 80 (the exact number is secret), so only a maximum number of X players can be on the map from each side at the same time. There are 3 sides; red, green and blue, so X * 3 = total numbers from all 3 sides.

Queues show that a server is alive, that there are players that want to get on that map — it’s a GOOD thing.
If you or anyone have no time to wait in queues:
1. select another map
2. transfer to a server without queues
3. play something else, at least until you have more time, not just ~2hrs (WvW is a 24/7 game mode, not something empty 22/7, think about that)

Also the current situation is just temporary, it’s a beta test. There are still servers with maps that are not queued, and likely most servers have no queue at all on any maps, outside the NA timezone evenings or outside during weekends.
“No queues” is fine, but no players at all on the maps, or not enough players on either side, during any timezone – that’s very bad. That is what should be no. 1 priority: having enough players all the time, balanced all the time.

Stop thinking only about yourself (not addressed to any single person, but in general) — think about what’s best for the WvW players in general. There are many games I can’t play either, because you have to log on during certain exact times to play those – and I can’t; but I won’t complain on their forums. There are games you can play, others you can’t – those games are meant for those who can.

Enus.2781:

I personally love this linking and haven’t been excited for wvw in a long time.

So please, Anet, realize people come on the forums to QQ than they do to recognize your hard work. You’re doing amazing and alot of people in game love the change, you can see it in your logs.

You love this change. That’s fine. But then you complain about complainers who may not like (yet) or just some part of the details – and thus giving feedback about that, which may seem as complaining or QQ (and some it is, because it’s not formulated in a constructive way: as in this I don’t like, because reasons, and this example could be a way to address it).
Complaining about complainers is wrong; and way more useless than their “QQ” – that at least is 1/3 of the constructive feedback, though that should be 3/3.

ArenaNet did well with these latest changes, though it’s far not enough yet, to save WvW. Population imbalance still persists and will become far worse in time if a server starts winning consistently and others losing constantly. More changes needed, especially addressing time zone coverage.

Also the scoring system needs reworked, changed. Class balance, gear and so on, still needs attention. Even rewards, maybe adding a long term chance for obtaining a legendary in WvW for example. And so on.

But what is good: they had the courage to start changing things. That’s awesome, even if it’s way too late for many, but at least those new to the game, may find a better game mode one day. Anet must keep doing changes, reverting or modifying as necessary, and then keeping the best working variant.

Everyone can’t be pleased with every change; ArenaNet should focus on the majority of players, on what’s best for keeping WvW alive and even fun. But “QQ” shouldn’t be ignored, because that “QQ” shows that there is a “collateral damage” despite the good intentions. Everyone can’t be saved: but the changes cannot stop because of that, WvW just received a breath of fresh air, which won’t last forever, if this “surgery” won’t succeed. Stopping now and here is not an option, fixes must keep coming until balance is achieved.

AC can hit way too many targets at once, and keep that up continuously. Can do a lot of damage, both direct and condi, in a very short time, to a very large amount of enemies – from complete safety. When multiple players are doing that, it’s simply a dead zone, no way to cross it. If that’s not enough, the players using it have builds optimized for AC: condi bunkers, wxp maxed. AC damage is sky-high in such situations. Risk is inexistent on AC, while the reward is maxed. Then they run or waypoint away… (maybe this is server specific though)

Siege bunker should allow surving under siege for while. Currently does not. 10% less damage from hits that are higher than your HP (always multiple AC’s) means nothing.

But the point would be to balance attackers vs. defenders in a siege situation. Give them tools, to both sides, make it FUN.

It’s not about AC alone. Devs need to take time and test it, not the AC, but the siege situation. Extreme unbalance is the norm in WvW, and not always was like that. The damage from all sources should be lowered, including players, not just AC’s. It’s far too high. If there’s no time to react, how to counterplay? Except trebs, those still take ages of waiting and are extemely boring to use… should be 5x higher maybe idk

Sviel.7493:

Most importantly, several are claiming that straight PvP is the sole purpose of the game mode.

Not just pointless PvP, but PvP for a reason – though that reason was lost and needs to be restored. I mean past tense, needed a long time again… likely far too late now. The trust in Anet is gone, and the way they currently operate doesn’t help either: fabricating “surprise” fixes that mostly worsen the situation. And the game mode won’t fix itself…

TorquedSoul.8097:

Aeowia.7214:

Doesn’t matter who uses these despicable game mechanics like AC’s against players, cloaking waters, chilling fog, airship, and the list is sadly very long – they are and remain wrong and a major reason for slowly killing the fun of playing WvW.

It’s not the first time we condemn these, but our voice is ignored. There are always a few supporters of anything or anyone, that’s just how humans are – but the dev team should be concerned with the long term health of the game mode and should’ve focused on those who gave life to WvW and now are gone. The last remnant will be gone soon if nothing changes: revert back to pre-stab and nerf AC (or make siege bunker wxp reduce 50-90% instead of 10%).

Yes we JQ, are also guilty, of using these unequivocally detestable game mechanics: capping empty objectives, using multiple AC’s when we outnumber the enemy (I never seen this, but maybe happened, though only 1 server does this), using cloaking waters, chilling fog, dragon banners, and many others. Being guilty doesn’t make these any less reprehensible.

The WvW players deserved a competitive environment, where skill mattered, where everyone would’ve been encouraged to improve and become better, where the winner would’ve been decided based on who played better and not who capped more on deserted maps in a dead game mode. The changes that lead there were forced upon us, WvW gradually became worse, and now it’s at an all time low.

This is the game now and we are guilty for still playing it sometimes, hoping for a miracle, until we leave too. Everytime we use these game mechanics something dies inside, because we know: by using these, we kill our beloved game mode.

Are you trying to shame Anet into creating the game you want?

Despicable game mechanics. Why not just call Anet immoral and be done with it?

Here is what I suggest for the sake of you mental health, go find another game. Walk away. Get some closure. Don’t stay here and let Anet force you to engage in despicable and immoral acts. Its not good for the soul.

You really don’t get it? This isn’t about me alone, far from it. These are the feelings we shared countless times and wasn’t boredom alone that made most of them leave. For WvW to survive these has to be understood, since these voices are no longer with us. That’s my pain, the loss of those players, not the “immorality” in itself.

Also this is likely my last post. Use it to answer the “why all they left” question. Or consider us “just a minority”. Or just continue to ignore all, doesn’t matter anymore.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Yes.

That said, we’ll be increasing the cooldowns on all tactics by 5-10 minutes. Also, once the scribing costs come down, as part of the april build, we can start looking at rebalancing their actual effects as well.

Alpine won’t be the same then. The only good parts brought by HoT are the scouting system from NPC guards and those related to dolyaks. The rest are all very bad or worse. Even more so because these take away time from the dev team, time that should be spent on measures to save WvW, and not on these things.

I guess hoping that WvW won’t completely die is meaningless now. The time is running out for the last of the last players. “One more battle, before all is over”…

To ArenaNet: Thanks for the good times, was fun once, despite culling and orb hacking, the battles were a joy. It was worth playing it.

To the players who made WvW alive: thanks for being part and making this game mode immensely fun, despite the shortcomings all over since the beginning. See you all in the next RvR game!

Doesn’t matter who uses these despicable game mechanics like AC’s against players, cloaking waters, chilling fog, airship, and the list is sadly very long – they are and remain wrong and a major reason for slowly killing the fun of playing WvW.

It’s not the first time we condemn these, but our voice is ignored. There are always a few supporters of anything or anyone, that’s just how humans are – but the dev team should be concerned with the long term health of the game mode and should’ve focused on those who gave life to WvW and now are gone. The last remnant will be gone soon if nothing changes: revert back to pre-stab and nerf AC (or make siege bunker wxp reduce 50-90% instead of 10%).

Yes we JQ, are also guilty, of using these unequivocally detestable game mechanics: capping empty objectives, using multiple AC’s when we outnumber the enemy (I never seen this, but maybe happened, though only 1 server does this), using cloaking waters, chilling fog, dragon banners, and many others. Being guilty doesn’t make these any less reprehensible.

The WvW players deserved a competitive environment, where skill mattered, where everyone would’ve been encouraged to improve and become better, where the winner would’ve been decided based on who played better and not who capped more on deserted maps in a dead game mode. The changes that lead there were forced upon us, WvW gradually became worse, and now it’s at an all time low.

This is the game now and we are guilty for still playing it sometimes, hoping for a miracle, until we leave too. Everytime we use these game mechanics something dies inside, because we know: by using these, we kill our beloved game mode.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Aeowia.7214:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Aeowia.7214:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Just remove them – problem solved.

This. Was asked since… forever

By mostly T1 players because of Yaks Bend.

It’s just as bad in T8. I’m new to tier 1… but it’s not just YB, anyone uses them, kills the fun. Then wonder why nobody comes back “for more”… Thinking is hard.

Funny I can’t remember the last time I died to an AC. If a tower has too many ACs you build an open field treb so they have to come out and fight…. Using more than one tactic is hard.

AC kills the fun… countering with treb and “using more than one tactic” won’t change that. Yes, we do that, did that, boring stuff, no need to explain siege wars… all that would be fine if weren’t used against players.
When the fun is gone, the players will be too. It’s just a matter of time until one says “had enough of this”. Both using AC and being used against you – it’s the same. Last tip: it’s not the “dying” part that pushes us away…

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Aeowia.7214:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Just remove them – problem solved.

This. Was asked since… forever

By mostly T1 players because of Yaks Bend.

It’s just as bad in T8. I’m new to tier 1… but it’s not just YB, anyone uses them, kills the fun. Then wonder why nobody comes back “for more”… Thinking is hard.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Just remove them – problem solved.

This. Was asked since… forever

TheLastNobody.8319:

So much effort and timed wasted and so many players lost.

This. Resources allocated to WvW were always low.
Doesn’t matter anymore for many, time ran out… but they are still way too slow to react… lessons learned?

I will make it simple, though you can search using Google and read many about this, all around the web, but here it is: the only good part of Desert Borderland are the assets; the plants, architecture, rocks, and also the lighting effects, particle effects, sounds – the artists at Anet did well. That’s it.

What went wrong: exaggerated verticality, environment that fights back and difficult to handle even when does not, huge impractical maze-like buildings, almost completely useless map-view because different levels, very long one way paths, dead ends and traps, no open spaces for fights without constantly getting that “obstructed” and “you can’t see that” messages, and more.

On top of that, all that wrong brought by HoT: requirement to play on PvE maps for different things (gear, guild unlocks, others), unbalanced classes, stability change overpowering mindless zerging (large groups are fine, but when mindless large groups can CC to death smaller groups with no counterplay that’s a game fail), siege versus players kept just as bad as ever.

All these happened when WvW was already dying. Instead of proper changes, these were brought in – as a “surprise”, by unknown experts (they aren’t allowed to acknowledge anything). Same time was made a promise that WvW will be the main focus next… Which wasn’t kept so far.

P.S. – Alpine Borderland won’t bring “salvation”, it’s just a bit better map, because it’s not as bad as the DBl. But WvW needs real changes to survive, not just a few maps, though bad maps make things worse.

Lowering arrowcart damage against players, to something insignificant, would have been the most important change towards making WvW fun, alongside a scoring system where winning fights decides the ranking, and varied population balance measures (dare to try out things and keep only those which help).

What we got instead was an encouragement of unskilled bunkering on siege, avoidance of the only fun part that WvW ever had: the fight system, because being cowardly made you a “winner”.

What could have been…

None of the servers discourage PPT activity, including capping empty things: it’s nothing shameful or bad in that, just most players DON’T ENJOY doing it, at least not for a very long time. The only thing fun in WvW are the fights, but since the competition is over, the game mode is meaningless, and thus good fights are rare or none.

WvW needs a scoring system that means something. Fights should be central to all activities, without siege of course or with siege nerfed into ground.

“Game is over” for current WvW, whatever niche activities are still practiced; PPT-ing, looking for fights (small or large scale) – all are irrelevant: leads nowhere, nothing to gain, nothing to lose.

You can still can have fun from time to time? Then have fun, doing whatever. But don’t expect the others to follow your ways, or talk about “server culture” in disdain: because both fights and PPT are pointless, it’s all “Been There, Done That”.

Was a Fight Activity?

- 1. was against NPC’s: guards, lords only, very few or no players involved > no
- 2. one side sit on siege killing besiegers > no, but getting closer
- 3. one side had a gate to retreat, barely came out, instead used siege > no
- 4. one side had a gate to retreat, but sallied forth multiple times, using siege cover > yes, but mostly not a fun fight
- 5. one side had a gate to retreat, but sallied forth multiple times, no siege involved > yes
- 6. both sides met in open field, or chokes, or inside objectives and fought each other > yes

Notes:
A. Fights always involve players on both side and not taking empty objectives
B. Since siege is way over the top deadly against players, it’s simply impossible to call it a fight “that crawling and fast dying” under siege – even if a group can sustain a while, that’s not what generations of WvW players desired or called “fights”. Siege in a RvR game should be a tool against objectives or other siege only, or in the worst case have a very insignificant damage against players.
C. The quality of the fights is also very important, just having bad “fights” it’s not very satisfying. That requires skilled players, coordination, eventually comparable numbers, and so on.

Just lol. 1 minute stealth!! On a WvW map?! Why tweak such “features”, anyone thinks at Anet that we go to WvW to avoid each other? Truly?

TorquedSoul.8097:

Reverence.6915:

TorquedSoul.8097:

Reverence.6915:

At this point, I’d rather get 2v1’d again to get action on the maps. BG seems dead because there’s no action, which causes people to log out, cause we’d rather do anything else other than karma training (I tag up for fights, fights end, half my group logs off). Groups from YB and JQ are just karma training empty borderlands thinking they’re hot stuff, complaining about us zerging them down with 10-15 man groups calling them “blobs”, all the while bunkering in keep lords rooms with siege.

Good joke.

If you want BG to play again, bring us fights without siege. Most of us won’t even care if we’re vastly outnumbered.

@Torqued: You seem bitter that BG won’t respond to your requests to push PPT. Guess what buddy, we’re not here to play for you. We’re here to play for us. If you want to play PPT, tag up and do it. Don’t expect someone else, who has no desire to want to play for PPT, to play that way.

Regardless of your perception of my attitude, the fact is that Blackgate is actively driving away PPT players and putting themselves at a disadvantage. Blackgate will never beat Yak’s Bend until they are willing to become like Yak’s Bend.

No amount of server politics will stop the unwashed hoards of Yak’s Bend.

You don’t know how PPT works, regardless of all those number crunching stuff you do (good work on those btw, they’re interesting to look at, despite not having any real relevance in the current WvW climate).

Why don’t you explain to me how PPT works? I’m always open to learning something new. What is my data missing that is so important? Server politics?

How PPT works? Let’s see… you need a bunch of players willing to capture empty objectives. If they can log out when there’s opposition and return later when the other server(s) are outmanned, even better, which is about 50% or more of the time for both JQ and BG lately.

What if the other servers start doing the same, JQ mostly? No worries, just add a bit of “defensive” siege humping and done.

It’s all about which server has more players who can be ready to log on 24/7 exactly during “dead time zones” and stomach that capping business.

Specific names were avoided, but it’s well known who are the culprits for this horrible PPT-ing in an already long time dead game mode.

Don’t even start me with words like “win” or “losing”… What to win or lose? That awesome match-up? It’s that hard to win the marathon when you are the only one running?! In this case it is, not hard, but unpleasant at least, just try PPT-ing like this. Though I wouldn’t tell anyone that “I won” such a “contest”…

sarahlynn.6943:

IMO, the problem is the new borderlands (Yeah! I know. Slow clap for Sarah)

The problems are far deeper and more than 3 years old. Anet it’s like in a parallel universe: they do things on their own pace, give us inventions we never asked for and ignore what the large majority asks; then they wonder why everyone slowly left… They don’t conduct survey’s to find out what their WvW players really think about major features or major problems, and eventually just pick an ideea here and there from these forums… not the brightest ideeas of course.

Desert Borderland for example: where is the survey asking WvW players about what they think about the new map? How many are pleased and how many are not? Huge amount of time, resources and effort went into this, while the WvW was already in dying state.

How long the community asked for a proper squad UI? From betas. For proper commander tools. For a meaningful scoring system. For reducing siege damage vs. players (they even increased it and left it increased!!). For a separate balance of skills where WvW has different needs. The list goes on…

For how long the WvW community asked for communication? For answers, explanations: what’s the reasoning behind different decisions… We were always ignored, all those are still unknown. And all that evil that slowly killed our communities are still kept unchanged. If not the devs, not the company, who should fix these problems? The players did their utmost to keep their game mode alive. Not everyone fought until the end though, not everyone was so much involved… But once the most faithful started leaving, the whole WvW collapsed: the community that kept this sandbox game mode alive is but a shadow of their former self.

Why we loved so much this WvW game mode? In truth we haven’t. What we loved was our community: the friendship that formed during hard times, during cooperation, the memories of epic struggles. We fought for each other. And now we lost each other… WvW meant the people, those who made it alive. That’s why we still keep logging back sometimes, and still take a sad look at these places, full of memories…

Wasn’t just the time it takes, but traveling on Alpine Borderland could be done using the auto-run, with very few jumps along. You could even relax while running.

On Desert Borderland you can die easily if not extremely careful, also you have to constantly maneuver around all kind of obstacles, you have to solve complex jumping puzzles and pass a gauntlet test (depends on path, from SE corner towards E keep is the worst, but the others aren’t better either).

Even knowing shortcuts and pathing, I can say the Alpine was a pleasure to travel compared to Deserted, which makes you hate your life for getting constantly in a maze, that does everything to slow you down or stop you from reaching your destination in time and have to fight it and takes a lot of effort from start to finish. You can even die if you take a peak at the map while using the auto-run or lag prevents you from stopping before some PvE trick… now you can start over.

And why would one want to endure all this? There’s nothing on that map worth fighting for, the keeps are horrible, no space for fights, it’s just chokes and 10 level verticality. Not a single building worth taking or defending… except the PPT it gives, which is all wrong, but off-topic here (a meaningul scoring system is needed that leads and revolves around fights, not capping empty objectives)

Cerby.1069:

Forums are mostly used by disgruntled playerbase, the people who do like the bl likely won’t be taking to the forums…[/quote]

We don’t know that. Anet could ask us, each of us, in-game vote or email or other tools, if they wanted to. Until then there is the feedback on this forum, on reddit, all over the internet.

Disgruntled? How you dare to categorize your fellow players? There are those satisfied and happy, playing the game and those discontent posting on forums? That’s your vision?! Where is the huge WvW community I used to be part of? Because they are clearly not in game. If they are happy, they are in other games. Those still happy are too few… that’s the number problem, and WvW cannot be with a few. So respect the disgruntled, try to understand their pain and maybe help them if possible.

The day is close when all of us will just “don’t care anymore”. The few “disgruntled” that still left. United, trying to understand each other – or divided and calling names, which way leads forward?

Supreme.3164:

…at least the airship gives a valid fighting chance , was exhilarating to finally kick Seafarer rest in the teeths

I’m not EU so no bias towards either side, don’t care which of you wins.

On topic: NO, it was not “exhilarating” and it gives no “valid fighting chance”. That can’t even be called “fighting”. Was the same as the ground simply collapsing and killing all your enemies or them being launched on an orbit around SM by a GM hand…

These pranks are what kill the desire of ever stepping in the WvW again. You want your enemy to come back and you should want your enemy to enjoy a fight just as much as you do… Right? You NEED to have enemies, who are willing to fight back, who make the game fun. Enemies are just as important as allies, even more so.

Making the players quit the game mode never solves balance, adding tools that simply obliterates one side without any way to counterplay neither. Also this isn’t about balancing population numbers and these are usable by both side, so aren’t meant to help the weaker side.

robotempire.2451:

I don’t want players who consider desert BL to be unplayable to come back because I don’t think people who think like that are very good players.

I also don’t think a “give me back my ball!”-style temper tantrum about the Alpine maps should be something the devs give two kittens about.

That’s your opinion.

The Desert Borderland – as it is now – it’s avoided by most players for many reasons. I’m one of those sometimes playing on it, but every second is a pain that I’m willing to endure for the sake of my realm. I hate every second of my life while being there. Can that map fixed? Yes, with a lot of work, and time that we don’t have. There has to be action NOW, even if it’s too late already.

Some players like DB? Yes, likely. Some like EoTM too. More divide there. How to decide then? Voting maybe, in-game. Considering player numbers, we could have 2x EB maps and nothing else, until the other maps are ready. Then EB, Alpine and a redesigned-Desert or a replacer in future, since verticality can’t be just fixed, chokes and mazes are the central theme of that map.