(edited by Ahmon.1730)
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What would it be called? It’s not like they can have every stat on every single one, can they? You would need a lot of names for different combinations.
There’s no healing power, critical damage and vitality either, which sucks.
Seriously? You think they’d have problems coming up with a kittening name?
My maths is bad and I should feel bad but if they raised the cap from 25 > 50, the damage exponentially rises because of some mathematical formula associated with it. It’s on the forums somewhere..
The formula for bleeding damage is given as follows:
0.5 * Level + 0.05 * Condition Damage + 2.5 = per stack per second damage
Either this formula is incorrect or your statement is incorrect. There is no hidden effect from having multiple bleeds applied to the same target.
Think about it, we’re missing a 2hander and could definately use another weapon to round us out.
If anything, there needs to be a 1200 range option to “round out” the class.
Staff is 1200. Necromancers have a mainhand weapon for every range window.
- 130 -> Dagger 1 chain
- 600 -> Dagger 2 & 3 | Axe | Warhorn
- 900 -> Scepter | Focus | Offhand Dagger
- 1200 -> Staff | Traited Focus
Staff is only long range in theory. In practice, Necrotic Grasp is miss or miss at 1200 range and marks are much easier to place quickly and accurately at low or medium range.
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Imho, I don’t think any of the scholars should be toting around great-swords, yeah, I am talking about you too, mesmer. Scholars just don’t fit the bill with great-swords. It looks awkward enough with a mesmer having one.
Ever play a Japanese RPG? Those heroes are almost universally cloth-armored with ridiculously large two-handed weapons.
Think about it, we’re missing a 2hander and could definately use another weapon to round us out.
Staff is a 2-hander. There’s no need for fattening up our melee range, either. Necromancers have close range, mid-range and medium range abilities. If anything, there needs to be a 1200 range option to “round out” the class.
Necro is so different to HoX, and so are your ideas, so I have no idea where you’re going with that comparison.
Also it takes 5 seconds to cast. This must be a bug as well so it should be added. No weak skill should have 5s cast time.
It has a condition transfer. May be part of the design, or unintended. It does feel weak, though.
Unyielding Blast does not apply vulnerability underwater.
Please confirm.
I can confirm. It doesn’t appear to be in the issues list, either.
Hey everyone!
I used to play necro on release, but I quit the game since they seemed pretty useless/weak compared to other classes and no one wanted to bring us along.
I was wondering if they fixed our dmg to be competitive other than just condition builds?
I appreciate your feedback!
Oda
The way the development teams are structured is pathetic for the purpose of fixing bugs and balancing classes. I didn’t think it’d be this bad, but it really is worse than imaginable. The reaction time is simply atrocious. Even games with tiny development teams, like CoH and Vanguard, have had better response times with major outstanding issues.
Yeah, necro underwater in general is just a joke. Has to be the worst class underwater in terms of boring skills AND underwhelming skills.
Trident is a joke, pretty much a pure condition dmg weapon that doesn’t do very good condition dmg, can maintain 5-6 bleeds with the auto and the poison requires you to dash into melee range, the whole thing is just a poorly designed mess. Spear is DECENT only because of it’s 2 skill.
Trident #1 is AoE. Trident #3 does not dash into melee range, but through the target. You’re using trident wrong. The two weapons are excellent in tandem, and arguably better than several other classes’ offerings in the water.
Firstly, you should not just be using the staff for AoE. It is excellent for utility and a few quick bleed stacks, as well. Scepter/dagger is the better weapon setup, but you shouldn’t be hanging out in it when you could use an additional condition transfer, chill or fear/interrupt. You should also be inscribing marks on choke points if you expect to have the cooldowns back up before needed. You should definitely NOT be spamming marks #2 to #5. Especially #4 and #5. In an event, spamming #4 is fine unless you expect to need the condition transfer, but it should be used as much for utility as damage otherwise.
As you say, saving utilities like Epidemic for use during the time you’re in staff mode is a good idea. Assuming you don’t have conditions to transfer or corrupt, it’s nice to stack Bleeds with scepter/dagger, switch to staff, mark Blood and then Epidemic. This gives good uptime on Epidemic conditions I find. However, you should never forget Death Shroud. Life Blast is better than Necrotic Grasp to spam for a few seconds, and you should be applying the Dark Path chill often anyways. And, of course, you can save Life Transfer for this period of time.
That’s a great idea, Vulish! How about you get me a full set of Runes of the Noble so I can test out how many Krytan Hounds I can have and how long they last, and if I can affect them with my abilities.
The problem is not all “allies” means “you” as well. Sigil of water, for example, doesn’t heal you- it heals allies. I think someone should go through and just do a double check on terminology, so it’s all unified. Maybe come up with a new word to differentiate between “allies and you” and “allies”.
You say that like it’s hard. Doing that takes about five minutes in-game. You’d get a much quicker answer.
Getting 6 runes from a dungeon takes you five minutes?
Ah, guess it’s not on the free to test list. Carry on.
We bagged one of them dev varmits the other day, had to chase him around half the map and murder a few clueless zerglings along the way, but we got him eventually!
Slightly more seriously though guys, I know all too well how bugged, busted and pootacular this career is, but at least the people making it have the decency to play it (even if the above case was our nemesis, the guardian) and they are fixing it. Fairly much no other MMO I’ve played in the last 10-12 years or so seemed to really invest much interest in the community past selling the box and collecting the subs, so I will give them credit for that.
You haven’t played many good MMOs, then. Not that there’s a lot that have an open attitude, but there are several prominent ones that had a surprising level of developer involvement.
I’d rather they start looking at balance now. Most of the bugs are low priority to me.
Every class gets more interesting when you actually have utilities. Necromancer weapon abilities are pretty lame, really. The utilities and DS are what make it interesting.
You can. Just need to hit ’em simultaneously.
This video is hilarious.
Jon Peters plays the necro like a complete newbie – like he never ever touched this class before. I really hope he was drunk or has some other excuse.
Extremely good players make average players look horrible. You’d need to see him play more than one match against more than elite opponents to see how good a player he is.
Pistol skills tend to fall around the 600 range.
They tend to have fast attacks and condition damage.
Necro already has many ways to inflict conditions at range and both Life Siphon and Ghastly Claws hit rapidly at range.This is why I’d rather have a Sword, a Greatsword, a Shield, a Torch or the Longbow.
Sword and Greatsword would add more melee skills. We only have one right now.
Shield would go well with Necros already being pretty hard to kill. Be a “tank”.
A torch could give us the ability to inflict Burning and Longbow could give us high single-target damage at long range.I just don’t know what a Pistol would add.
They look cool but I can’t think of what role they’d fulfill that we can’t already do.
Shield is not the Guardian’s tanking off-hand and pistol is not really condition-focused as a Thief. The weapons/off-hands don’t have specific roles.
How are you stopping a Mesmer from using the treb? He can solo you quite handily if you’re a a condition build, or at least force you to retreat. You won’t take down the treb first if he’s alive at all.
@Yukishiro.8792
Please read my posts. I never ever said we could not do damage. We can in fact. But what you can’t ask for is to do the same amount of damage as another Prof while keeping our higher survivability. The point of the Prof was to be an attrition Prof, people are asking for that to be change. If you don’t like that aspect of the Prof please don’t ask it to be changed, just stop playing a Necro. Some of us like the Prof as an attrition Prof. Don’t expect us to be happy with the fact that your trying to change the core aspect of the Prof we wanted to play.
If the point of Necro was to be an attrition profession, the mark was severely missed. Comparing like builds (i.e. survival/bunker to survival/bunker), Necros are only a little better at surviving on average. Necros are markedly better at taking down other condition builds, but there are precious few of these. The direct damage is just too high – Necro damage needs to be boosted so that they can attrit faster or survivability needs to be boosted so they can survive in a glass build markedly longer than other glass builds.
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pistol necro? what in the world?
I think following items (In the order listed) would make more sense for necro:
- 1h sword
- 2h sword
- Axe
- Double wield focus
- Undead cats
- Live cats
- Pistol
Necros do wield axes.
And then Jon Peters tells us that the problem with our class is we are not using Death Shroud optimally.
Would you kindly shut the kitten up about this? It was amusing at first but taking this quote out of context is ruining polite discussion on these forums. The only point he made was that the metagame surrounding Necromancers will evolve as more Necromancers find different ways to employ Death Shroud. As it is a unique ability, this requires extra balancing focus. Nowhere is it implied that Necromancers were at par strength nor that Necromancer players were the primary problem instead of the class.
He deserves to be slammed about it.
I am pretty kitten off that out of the 3 problematic classes: – mesmer – thief -necro
(i.e. the ones where the mechanic of the class stealth/initiative, clones and shattering, DS make it an issue to balance) we were the ones who got shafted, and obviously got the least attention considering the number of bugs. I actually rolled the class betting it would be slightly OP on the survivability side come release given their comments but it didn’t happen. And plague while you do nothing or death shroud while you do nothing doesn’t count.Anyway, I am happy with some of the fixes but it is taking too long so I have rerolled. Risk v reward in this game is borked.
I agree. Playing a Necromancer alongside any other class makes the Necromancer feel innately weak. Jon Peters is an impolitic nitwit with a keyboard on these forums but making it out to be that he’s against Necro players or that the developers are against Necromancers is foolish and unfounded.
Forgive my lack of knowledge of English language and specially slangs: I don’t understand the use of the verb “kitten”. What it’s used for?
So the kitten what? Cap the number of stacks that Epidemic can transfer if it’s a special case. Don’t kitten with people’s damage.
Also, you’re an idiot. Epidemic doesn’t reset the timer on conditions it transfers.
Thank you for your constructive comment but please let me point the fact I was talking about possible exploit: think about two necromancers with epidemic, or two rangers with a lot of bleed, whatever you like. Even if Epidemic doesn’t not reset conditions cooldown you could still apply an enormous quantity of bleed without cap.
I was stating it’s exploitable and thus they put a cap.
Exploitable how? You can’t extend the duration of bleeds/conditions with Epidemic. If you mean exploitable in the sense that it makes Epidemic even more useful, then yeah, that’s true.
@ahmon
Trying to berate me for degrading a “polite discussion” by prefacing your rebuttal with “Would you kindly shut the kitten up about this?”.
You are not making a convincing argument here.
That’s not a rebuttal. I just want you to shut the kitten up with the, “Jon Peters said!” bullkitten.
Bleed cap makes sense when Epidemic come in play: if you have good timing you can copy indefinitely the conditions from one foe to another: in PvP stacking bleed focusing a target is easy and if you epidemic an enemy then epidemic again the other one you can transfer a indecent amount of bleed indefinitely. In tournament this would be an incredible exploit.
Instead I would suggest to keep the cap only for sPvP and tPvP.
So the kitten what? Cap the number of stacks that Epidemic can transfer if it’s a special case. Don’t kitten with people’s damage.
Also, you’re an idiot. Epidemic doesn’t reset the timer on conditions it transfers.
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And then Jon Peters tells us that the problem with our class is we are not using Death Shroud optimally.
Would you kindly shut the kitten up about this? It was amusing at first but taking this quote out of context is ruining polite discussion on these forums. The only point he made was that the metagame surrounding Necromancers will evolve as more Necromancers find different ways to employ Death Shroud. As it is a unique ability, this requires extra balancing focus. Nowhere is it implied that Necromancers were at par strength nor that Necromancer players were the primary problem instead of the class.
I used to think that the 25 stack limit of bleed made some sense. But after some thought I realized how insanely nonsensical it is. If people fight by using bleeds and their main damage comes from conditions, why the hell would you cap that? There’s no cap for direct damage, so why is there a cap for condition damage? It makes absolutely no sense.
So what if there are 100 stacks of bleed on the target? That means it’s how the people trying to kill it deal damage, why would you block half of the people from dealing any sort of decent damage to these creatures? If there’s 100 players who fight using direct damage, you don’t cap the other 75 of these 100 players from not dealing damage because the first 25 are already dealing damage to it.
Yep, that’s exactly how I feel. I could understand if Bleeds rolled or something, but then you’d have a bigger problem with the way most classes can stack 20+ bleeds easily. However, they do not and there is no synergy between each individual bleed. It is insane that this bug/issue has not yet been fixed.
SUre once in a blue moon they get hung up, but pfft, bad pathing is nothing to cry about.
Uh huh.
Careful, if you dig that hole to deep you may not be able to get out.
Actually, I’m with Tassy on this one. Heck, I just changed my build to using only Flesh Golem as I found my minion build made things a little too easy for me. Heck, even not using minions I still find things a little too easy for me. Sometimes I purposely jump off cliffs just to taste death. That’s how much I miss dying, or feeling of defeat.
Perhaps I’m alone in this, but I come to this forum and scratch my head when people say Necro is broken. People comparing Necro’s pets to Mesmer’s clones, or burst damage to Warrior’s. It’s like saying, “Hey, I bought this pizza, butkittenit tastes like pizza. I want it to taste like chocolate sundae instead!” scratches head
And no, don’t ask for videos or builds or whatever. Believe me if you will, or don’t if you won’t.
The way many people see it is as if they ordered a chocolate sundae from a diner and received a pre-packaged frozen chocolate sundae. Yes, it’s a sundae. No, it’s not near what they expected.
Mesmer is one of the core choices for a SPVP team right now. Necromancer is a rare choice. If you’re concerned about this in the short run, roll Mesmer.
Does anyone have any videos of the old staff animation from those beta weekends? I would love to see exactly how fast it was compared to what we have now. I was in all the betas but did not play a necromancer then =(.
K, so i did a search and am still looking through some bwe1 footage but I cannot find what it is that the OP has described. In this video that you linked to around 1:53 you can clearly see her using the staff and the necrotic hand coming out during the autocast.
Yeah. I have no idea what the OP is referring to unless it’s Reaper’s Touch. This is from BWE 2.
this shouldnt have been posted twice, I tried to post this initially, it didnt go through and I thought the title was stupid. weird.
Bear with it. The forums are pretty well-done, but there are a few annoying bugs to be worked out.
Does anyone have any videos of the old staff animation from those beta weekends? I would love to see exactly how fast it was compared to what we have now. I was in all the betas but did not play a necromancer then =(.
No idea whats going on there but looks fun
A man’s man kills 15 bots and a few (3?) bodyguards. It’s a worthwhile cause, but probably a hopeless one.
Not being able to stack conditions in PVE. This goes for Bleed, Burning and Poison. kitten is dumb as hell.
Not sure what your ‘conclusion’ has to do with my post, actually its neither here nor there. Name one other class ability -from any other class- that shouts focus fire me and cc me more than death Shroud and DS #4!
Tome of Wrath.
The real question is why are you spending so much time in DS that it becomes a vulnerability?
Wall combo fields are finished only by leap and projectile finishers.
*Reread that. I guess I don’t know what to think. Interesting that bone minions proc the effect.
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Well fine, nearly all of the Necromancer’s abilities have casting times that are interruptable. Terminology aside it does seem to be a detriment to the class.
It’s not just terminology. The interrupt mechanic is much more detrimental to channeled abilities than casted abilities.
Dagger 3 the immobilize? Yeah it does, go test it. The little bar under it while using the ability means that it’s a channel and interruptable. It’s casting time is just faster than other channels.
That’s a cast bar, not a channeled ability…
That’s a horrible idea. Death shroud is not a ten-second escape cooldown like Stealth. It doesn’t need to be that powerful.
Which weapon sets are you running that only have dagger 1 as a non-channel?
That isn’t even possible. Dagger 3 is not channeled.
I suggested multipe DS forms during beta:
- one for direct damage builds
- one for condition builds
- one for support builds
- one for tank buildsEven if four forms might be a littel over the top, we definitively need separate forms for condition and power builds. Or the should rework the current form so its damage gets increased no matter what your main damage comes from.
/edit
I don’t think a custsmizable DS is very likely.
If each ability had a direct and a condition component, it would be a non-issue.
Yes. Temporarily dismissed. AFAIK, they all come back when you deshift, though.
How the hell do you break MoA?
And for all necros around- If you see the mesmer castign a long spell-MOA
Use Spec armor- Cancels the transformation
Or time and dodge it, or use the horn interrupt. There’s several ways to counter it, but none are terribly effective if the Mesmer pays attention. Dodging is probably best as you can do that twice at least, assuming it’s not been used recently.
I think the thing we need to start demanding is videos.
We have a few people who talk about how fine the Necro is.
I ask to please, please prove me wrong. Post a video containing enough content that we know it isn’t a fluke.
Post a video of you performing in a role better or equal to a different class similarly spec’ed.
If we should all l2p… then teach us how to play. Lead by example.
That could just as easily be turned on you. Make your own videos. Agitate for changes. I plan to when I’m done with Borderlands 2.
Weekends are not a popular time for deploying major updates. I’d expect major updates to fall on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, with more regular patches during the work week until a schedule is worked out.
Seems like fun. I’ll try it out. Why CPC over Epidemic, though?
Read the top comment. It only increases duration, not damage. So you would have longer bleeds that tick smaller but deal the same damage over time (excepting the bonus condition damage). I have not tested and cannot verify, but it may be true.
Probably, but Life Transfer is channeled. The mechanic’s gonna be different.
Prayers are human skills, not Necromancer skills.
But yes, most human skills are also weak.
In GW1 necromancers had a lot of interactivity with corpses. They could make minion from corpse, create well around corpse, finally, explode corpse. Also necros were be able to gain some benefits when someone around dies.
Necromancers from GW2 has no interaction with corpses and death. Hey, they just look like people who associated with death, but actually they are not. If necromancer skill effects will be changed to rainbow from dark-emerald and appearance of minions will be changed to pony from deformed-flesh-things, it will be absolutely fit necro’s mechanics. Current GW2 necromancers don’t use death as tool. As I said, they have no interactions with it. There is no reason to call them necromancers.
That’s simply not true. Necromancers gain Life Force from things dying near them. This is used to power Death Shroud. It’s not as limited as in GW1, but the idea is similar.
Things die. Necromancer does stuff with the life force.
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