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Should there be a counter to Invuln skills?

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

There is already a counter to invulnerability: conditions. It isn’t a reactive counter, but it is a build counter. Invulnerability does not grant immunity to the damage of conditions already placed on you, only the application of additional conditions while the invuln is active.

I don’t think everything needs to be capable of being reactively countered, continued damage from applied conditions and zero point contesting is drawback enough.

Even if a reactive counter were introduced it certainly should not be given to high mobility high burst builds. Getting plussed by these builds is exactly what the invuln is supposed to help against, allowing the player to draw out the engagement and counter the advantage of mobility.

Passive invuln gets a lot of hate, but I’ve also seen it be as much a detriment to the user when faced against a condi build. If high burst/pressure roamers with instant cast skills didn’t exist then there would be no need for these traits to exist because the game would be slower and players allowed more time to react to the plus.

Some kind of skill availability with a button press or recharging the skill if on cooldown seems like a fair middle ground that promotes active play while accomplishing the same goals.

Mirage... I am depressed :(

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

During the first stress test I had the same problem and tried to find ways to work around it that were provided by baseline mesmer or via mirage. It felt really weird to unlearn dodge movement reliance at first.

Movement ambushes: sword, scepter

Movement weapon skills: sword 3, axe 2 and 3, staff 2

Movement utility skills: blink, illusionary ambush, sand through glass, mirage advance, jaunt

Combining these with mirror generation provided adequate defense to pivot around to avoid aoe or just evade through it with mirage cloak and skill evasions. It even had an interesting rhythm to it and generally allowed for continued attacking in one form or another. I was trying to focus on axe play, so staying in melee and avoiding attacks required weaving a lot of this together.

I’m not defending mirage or commenting on its state in any fashion, I’m just describing what I found I had to do to work with it in PvE only, specifically the big bads from the bounties.

Core Mesmer is better at attacking + evade

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

As for your comment on Mantras, I actually really like the heal and daze Mantra in PvP nowadays, pain seems super underwhelming to me, and as strong as the condi cleanse and stability one are, once I’ve used both charges their cast is just hell and doesn’t give any worthwhile effect for finishing it. At least the daze gives 15s off diversion, and the heal gives a nice bandaid.

It’s obvious they want them to be risk vs reward, and honestly the only one that seems that way currently is the Mantra of distraction, and then the heal when it’s trained, all the other ones don’t feel all that rewarding to actually cast mid combat, so once the charges are spent I just kinda pray I won’t need them.

I completely agree.

The charge reward feels so awful on most it doesn’t feel rewarding to cast them in combat as designed.

Mantra of Distraction and Recovery feel good because completing their casts feels like a powerful reward independent of having to follow up with the charges. The others need to be made to fit this blueprint.

Pain and Resolve require immediate use of their charges to realise the potential of their channels and for that reason feel clunky; why not just make them single casts without charges? Concentration also feels weird because gaining a single stack of aegis and stability on charge feels meaningless in the scheme of things.

Pain – Add a strong AOE effect on channel completion centered on target. Could be damage, damaging conditions, debuff conditions, or some combination thereof. For example, AOE application of 3 sec of cripple, blindness, and weakness is what you get for letting me free cast ad nauseam.

Resolve – Straight up cleanse five conditions on channel completion.

Concentration – In addition to stability and aegis, add 5 sec of protection, regeneration, vigor, and swiftness upon channel completion.

These may be a little much, but I think it gets the idea across of what would help make them feel combat cast worthy.

(edited by Allarius.5670)

Bring Back The Pole - Rather, Just DO it.

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

Okay, so what if ranked also …

(1) Locked all visuals for allied and opposing players into standard models without a toggle option (you would still see your character as is)

(2) Masked all player names with random preset alternatives (similar to team names)

(3) Revealed visuals and names only at the final victory screen

(4) Locked players into bases until after the start of the match

(5) Removed duo-queue if needed

(6) Locked profession on queing without swap option

(7) Removed profession stacking if needed

Why must players game the system? This is why we cannot have nice things.

Why I feel Mirage feels so weak

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

@musu

That doesn’t feel like a fair criticism to me. Does Well of Gravity directly help with the Chronomancer theme of casting more? It can be made to by granting alacrity via traits, but that requires traiting and a playstyle shift to stand in it and it certainly doesn’t do it baseline.

Aside from granting Mirage Mirrors, Deception skills provide specialized mobility tools. Is it a big stretch to see how offensive and defensive repositioning can use position to remove hindrances to casting?

I agree ambush isn’t a direct fit outside of thematic alternate Thief mechanics and a way to introduce other skills and any associated utility or offense they may provide as another level of tuning.

Alternate interpretation is going to sound like playing with words, all I can do is try to provide explanation of my reasoning. I make no comment on its purpose or role, only what I think it appears to want to do.

I agree with the lack of clarity from Anet in statements and interviews. In one of the interviews a developer describes the Mirage as being the ultimate multitasker, but many seem more fixated on their statement about pretending to be a clone. None of that is particularly useful.

Why I feel Mirage feels so weak

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Allarius.5670

My goal was to try and help clear up the questions originally posted in so far as I saw them. These questions appeared to be “what is the Mirage’s focus” and “what does the Mirage specialize in”. I was not providing commentary as to whether or not its current toolset was sufficient to achieve this. Although I disagree with the idea Mirage is a vague concept or a bad elite spec, it in no way invalidates anyone else’s opinion.

I apologize for being unclear and leaving the impression that deception means only to detarget and reorient already existing target saturation assets. What I was trying to say is that “deception” as an idea isn’t useful when trying to answer the posed questions because “deception” is too broad a concept for many to agree on.

For example, if Decoy forced retargeting onto the clone would it be deceptive? Some would say yes because stealth masks movement and action, and the retargeting momentarily distracts the player. Someone else would say no because an experienced player knows that the sudden change in behaviour indicates activation of the skill and to anticipate stealthed behaviour based on in-game context.

If someone asked me what Chronomancer’s focus and specialization was, I would say “lower the impact of cooldowns and snares to allow the Mesmer to do more of the same”. I wouldn’t say resummon Illusions upon shattering, even though it can elect to do so, and I wouldn’t necessarily comment on how effectively it could achieve that if someone asked for a basic understanding of what it was trying to do.

Putting aside any notion of deception, what does Mirage do? What does it enable baseline via minor traits? Mirage Cloak, a way to regain endurance to get more Mirage Cloak, and a touch of superspeed on Mirage Cloak. That is the core of what Mirage is meant to provide. This is why I focused on using Mirage Cloak as an example, because it is the quintessential element of the Mirage spec. If you are trying to understand Mirage broadly and on a basic level, look no further.

Outside of Shards of Glass, the player absolutely has control in the placement of Mirage Mirrors. The Mirage specializes in Mirage Cloak and what it can do. Mirrors provide an additional way to obtain Mirage Cloak, but may not actually be flexible enough to provide adequate utility, especially without adopting a playstyle that aims to capitalise on them.

Someone else described Infinite Horizon as a red herring when trying to interpret Mirage identity, and this is a pretty good description. Infinite Horizon provides a way to let illusions avoid attacks and simultaneously gain access to a new skill. It shares Mirage Cloak with Illusions, what a player does with that is up to them.

Detarget and illusion reposition skills do just that. They provide the utility to move illusions around without resummoning them and provide a situation where it may be necessary for opponents to weed through illusions to retarget the Mesmer.

If the Chronomancer is about casting more, the Mirage is about casting unhindered. Maybe it doesn’t do enough of that yet, but its identity seems pretty clear when you put aside all the talk of deception and pretending to be a clone.

Why I feel Mirage feels so weak

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

I think “deception” is a misnomer because of all the potential interpretive baggage that comes with it. It would be more clear if the developers ceased using the word, or similarly ambiguous phrases, to describe what they are talking about and instead used specific mechanics and context. “Detarget and reposition alongside illusions to provide localised target saturation” is more meaningful and less open to ambiguity than “deceive your opponent” or “maintain the illusion you are a clone”. It wouldn’t sound as cool , but it would certainly clear up some of the issues the playerbase has with respect to Mesmer and accurate in-game functionality.

If Holosmith is a customizable weapon and Deadeye is a sniper, Mirage is its namesake: something that appears to be there but isn’t. Mirage is the opponent that is there but doesn’t seem to be there because attacks move through them, they were actually a clone, or they are suddenly elsewhere.

Look no further than Mirage’s primary asset, Mirage Cloak. It enables the Mesmer to continue performing its actions while avoiding attacks. Other aspects enable more Mirage Cloak (endurance gain and Mirage Mirrors) and/or provide specialized mobility and trickery to obtain similar functionality.

This is the same sort of thing as using Distortion to avoid damage while casting and attacking or using Phase Retreat to suddenly reposition while performing another action or gain some positional advantage. The idea is to enable more of this. It doesn’t necessarily mean more damage, but rather a playstyle shift to allow for more aggressive and/or more elusive play independent of any specific weapon selection because of increased access to avoidance.

Mesmer is already really good at defending itself while assaulting because of the de-centralised mechanics of illusions and shatters on top of various instant cast skills. Thief through the eyes of Mesmer is even more of this with arguably more flexibility because of greater potential access and not being locked into a singular attack type (Daredevil).

Mirage specializes in avoiding incoming negative effects while continuing to perform its actions unhindered. This isn’t as obvious or in your face as laser swords or high range high pressure assaults. How useful this is and whether or not it enables new or improved roles is going to depend on interpretation, usage, and final numbers adjustments. Thematically, for a profession with the identity of “utility caster” it seems pretty appropriate.

Infinite Horizon Should Be Removed

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

I could agree with getting rid of Infinite Horizon to justify massive buffs to the Mesmer’s ambush attacks or because you like your suggestion better than the current implementation, but I fail to follow the primary reasoning provided.

Mesmer’s core gameplay and relationship to illusions has always been threefold: (1) benefit from a skill that also summons an illusion (more recently updated to include phantasms), (2) capitalize on illusions in their own capacity, and (3) destroy illusions for empowered effects. The exact nature of skills, illusions, and shatters may change but I struggle to see this dynamic ever truly changing. Mirage is no different, providing additional layers in which to manipulate or alter one or more of these aspects.

The trait could easily be interpreted differently: shatters gain improved functionality with more illusions but illusions are vulnerable, Infinite Horizon allows an additional way to momentarily safeguard illusions and grants an additional way to benefit from them while waiting to shatter. By this logic, Infinite Horizon is the only grandmaster that has an immediate synergy with shatters.

Countless Mirage Podcast Feat Zeromis

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Allarius.5670

No sweat, Countless. I was just sharing how I saw it as written. I am super duper jealous you had the opportunity to pick a developer’s brain about it.

Personally, I thought Mirage Mirrors felt a little out of place too, as though an after thought or not fully integrated; but, the more Mirage video montages I see the more I think there is potential. I just wasn’t fully realising or accessing the spec and the alternative way of playing it allows.

Consider that Mirage is meant to be Thief through the eyes of the Mesmer, and Thief is known for hyper aggressive melee bursts with periods of avoidance. Taking the measure of the full set of Deception skills, this is exactly the playstyle Mirage allows for. Granted, Mesmer already plays like this to a degree, so surely the intent was to provide additional and alternative ways to do it.

The deception skills allow you ways to get in and out of combat, maneuver spatially within combat, and generally avoid damage on top of all the ways core Mesmer already can. Mirage Mirrors help enable that in the skirmishing area, providing additional evasion to avoid retaliation while continuing to harass or escape. The skills do allow for control over the placement of mirrors, but require a playstyle shift to realise their potential. You don’t set them up for later use with a 4 sec lifetime, you aim to capitalise on them almost immediately. Consider Jaunt and its very limited range: it was likely intended as a positionally evasive damage avoidance utility and a Mirror enabler all while engaged in combat, not the full escape tool or raw mobility tool a lot of us tried to use it for or initially thought it would be.

Where the Chronomancer was Utility Mesmer +, the Mirage looks like it wants to be Damage Mesmer +. It lacks the more traditional staying power and utility that Chronomancer can provide, but does have the potential for higher and more frequent bursts for Condi Mesmer and a more evasive tool set for Power Mesmer.

I think Mirage does need adjustment and tweaks, and am totally open to the possibility that I am completely and utterly wrong. I certainly don’t think anyone else’s observations, ideas, and interpretations are incorrect; I am limited by seeing through my own perspective and experiences. It is certainly valid to disagree with the concept and design execution as well if it doesn’t meet what someone feels are the needs and desires of their individual playstyle, though we are all at the mercy of the developers in the end. It will be interesting to see how things develop.

Mirage Mirrors improvements

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

I do not like the idea of profession skills shattering the Mirrors. We already do that with illusions, it isn’t new or interesting. Having illusions not shatter in place of mirrors also feels wrong: it would require a large redesign and is essentially the same concept as Chrono (shatter your illusions and get them back).

Mirrors allow for additional defense in an area. The idea works but feels bad when you cannot take advantage of Mirrors because of expiration or being forced from the position.

The clone concept is cool, but would not change how Mirrors feel in regards to failing to utilise them.

Suggestion: Keep mirrors as they are, but have mirrors spawn a clone at their position on your target when they end before shattering.

Shards of Glass could change from its current implementation to grant two clones per expired mirror with a reasonable internal cooldown should it prove necessary.

This would keep mirrors usable for their intended purpose, help with illusion generation complaints, make mirrors feel better when you cannot shatter them, and would not require a full design rework. It would also allow mirrors to feel like zone control as some folks suggest (especially if Shards of Glass were changed too) because surprise clones into surprise shatter.

Edited for clarity.

(edited by Allarius.5670)

Idea to make Mirrors Tactical

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Allarius.5670

I suggested virtually the same concept elsewhere a couple times, only without the clone spawning and tacking on the ammo mechanic with max charge of 2. Ammo would recharge at a balanced rate while traits and deceptions that currently spawn mirrors would refill a charge.

I cannot speak for the OP, but my logic went like this:

  • Mirrors are cool, but feel a little clunky; increasing player control would help
  • Mirage needs ways to enable Mirage Cloak, Mirage Mirrors allow for this
  • Enabling Mirage Mirrors with an F5 builds it into the core of Mirage
  • Adding additional endurance regeneration or supply is not as interesting, has been done, and would make Elusive Mind even more broken
  • Mirage Mirrors would act as “pre-dodges” that allow for counterplay by advertising future position, but allow for 2 instead of 1 (see Daredevil) and regenerate separate from endurance

Countless Mirage Podcast Feat Zeromis

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Allarius.5670

Whether or not you agree with the implementation, I do think it was intended this way and it is how I read it. The Mirage Cloak trait causes your dodge key to lose its normal function, it now grants the Mirage Cloak status effect. Mirage Mirrors also grant the Mirage Cloak status effect. Elusive Mind insinuates activation of the trait based on the dodge key, not based on gaining the Mirage Cloak status nor evading attacks.

[Feedback]Path of Fire Elite Specialization Preview - August 18-20

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

Loved Mirage, pretty solid conceptually. Requires mostly various numbers adjustments throughout the specialization and its mechanics to improve functionality and fluidity.

Further increase endurance generation or supply and/or integrate Mirage Mirror inherently (F5?) to improve access to and better enable Mirage Cloak. Increase window of Ambush availability. Deceptions need number tweaks to improve functionality. Axe 3 and Illusionary Ambush need to be made to play well with verticality (dramatically decrease distance between mesmer and illusions to their target post shadow step?).

Overall needs to better enable its role to differentiate itself from core Mesmer and Chronomancer. If it is about damage burst/ambush, help make that more apparent.

[Feedback] Mirage Traits

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

General – Most are conceptually workable and require mostly tweaks and adjustments.

Minor Traits

  • Mirage Cloak – Fine.
  • Nomad’s Endurance – Mirage feels like it needs improved access to Mirage Cloak by improved integration of Mirage Mirrors (F5?) or improved endurance regeneration or supply. Having shatters return endurance based on number of illusions shattered is a possibility.
  • Speed of Sand – Increase super speed to 1 sec and add swiftness in duration of 5 sec or higher to improve mobility in and out of combat.

Adept Traits

  • Self-Deception – Decrease deception cool downs (20%) or deception skills always grant a clone on a short cool down.
  • Renewing Oasis – Needs something. Maybe share the healing you receive from regeneration with others in a radius around you, similar to Healing Prism, turning the Mesmer into an “oasis”, or convert into a non-regeneration healing buff.
  • Riddle of Sand – Fine.

Master Traits

  • Shards of Glass – Remove random chance altogether; internal cool down is sufficient and would require a buff notification to the player when available like Riddle of Sand.
  • Mirage Mantle – Increase base duration of protection. Have it grant protection to your illusions as well.
  • Mirrored Axes – Fine.

Grandmaster Traits

  • Infinite Horizon – Fine.
  • Elusive Mind – Fine.
  • Dune Cloak – Increase attack radius of Sand Shards and have it trigger around all of your illusions as well. Functional use in a PvE rotation and plays well with phantasms.

[Feedback] Utilities, Cloak, and Mirrors

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Allarius.5670

Utilities – Mostly okay conceptually, but require tweaks for functionality and ease of use and functionality.

Cloak – Solid concept and great execution. Tweaks in various traits and an increased window of ambush availability, but the core of Mirage Cloak is great.

Mirrors – Great idea but needs polishing by granting improved control to the player. Feels like it should have a greater inherent integration to the Mirage. I’m not a fan of adding profession mechanics just for the sake of it, but I think this is a place where it could help. Definitely needs longer life time.


Profession Mechanic F5 (not a shatter): Mirage Mirror

  • Allows you to place a mirage mirror within 900 like Crystal Sands
  • Holds ammo and recharges over time. Base ammo is approximately 2.
  • Traits and deception skills that grant Mirage Mirror restock ammo charges. Some utilities may add more (for example Crystal Sands).

Would grant greater control of placement. Integrates Mirage Mirror into the spec naturally while feeling like less of an oversight. Enables Mirage Cloak without having to add additional endurance regeneration or supply.

[Feedback] Axe and Ambush Skills

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Allarius.5670

Thank you for this Fay.

Axe

  • General – Increase range of auto attack chain, Imaginary Axes, and Lingering Thoughts to make axe a near-melee weapon. Increases fluidity and functionality of use, slight increase to defensive positioning for self and clones to help mitigate melee vulnerability.
  • Imaginary Axes – Consider increasing number of axes, amount of confusion applied by each, or adding torment or bleed.
  • Lingering Thoughts – Consider increasing distance traveled. Feels like it needs an evade, but that may be too much. Increased range and/or increased activation speed may be a sufficient middle ground.
  • Axes of Symmetry – Decrease distance between mesmer and clones to the target after shadow stepping to help with verticality and chase potential. Increase potential leap distance after shadow stepping to increase chase potential.

Ambush

  • Concept – Mirage Cloak is a solid idea to build the Mirage around. Most ambush attacks feel great with functionality and utility, but feel as though they lack sufficient impact. Improved access to Mirage Cloak via additional endurance regeneration mechanics or improved Mirage Mirror mechanics may be sufficient to help alleviate this.
  • Activation Window – Increase window of activation for the ambush to improve fluidity and functionality of use.
  • Greatsword – Feels lackluster by comparison. Added utility would help.

[Feedback] Mirage aesthetics

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Allarius.5670

I really enjoyed all of the voice lines and visuals. I’d like to see the jarring noise that sounds when a Deception skill with a shadow step is activated toned down.

Mirage is not Chrono

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Allarius.5670

I’m reading between the lines here, but I’d guess the OP is more frustated with the level of cynicsm, hyperbole, and unreasonable stubborness that is mingled with and potentially masking more productive feedback. If you managed to put Mirage through its paces in the little time available and left reasonable, productive criticsm, then I doubt the post was meant for you. It is a meta topic and I’m sure the OP thought it was problematic enough to warrant a more thorough discussion.

No, the Mirage is not a Chronomancer. It is trying to achieve an alternate, more Thief-like playstyle that will not be everyone’s cup of tea. Some folks will be put off by that, some will feel personally offended, and others will enjoy it. That is a reasonable expectation. It still needs some help getting there.

Mirage is extremely good

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Allarius.5670

@musu

Maybe op is good enough to make it work with Viper to add some power on Mind Wrack, but generally I guess the burst would have to come from conditions. Decent torment potential, bleed bursts, and heavy confusion. If they have found some decent combos to stack high confusion with high frequency then you can get some decent damage. At 20 stacks of confusion you can do 5k spike with an interrupt on top of normal condition dps and confusion procs, and you’d want to interrupt post confusion application to get Chaotic Interruption and cover the confusion.

Yeah, you would want Elusive Mind. It dramatically increases the versatility of Mirage Cloak. You wouldn’t use Mirage Cloak just for damage/ambush, just for defense/cover casting, or just for stunbreaks, you would use it for all of the above simultaneously as often as possible.

Mirage Cloak helps enable axe to function more fluidly in melee. Rotation would have to be a blend of near melee axe attacks with shatter for blind, mirage cloak for any of the above, Axes of Symmetry for additional evade, detarget, reposition, and alpha strike, etc.

When recovering endurance and cooldowns you would need to kite out and line of sight, this is when you would channel any mantras.

@zealex
Yeah, that was my impression too. Potential is there, maybe I just need to get better, some tweaks added to the spec, or adjustments to what I was running.

(edited by Allarius.5670)

Mirage is extremely good

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Allarius.5670

mistrust was far better than this with daze mantra . and guess why it was just a niche build .

also , sword is better for your build but sword ambush is still way too slow for what it does and what it costs.

and still :

clone generation is not enough for this to work .

on top of those problems , where is your defense? you don’t even have enough condi removal .no dmg on shatter.

now lets look what u can get from other trait line :
illusion : much more constantly dmg
domination :CS , PB for build with some power stats .not much for condi build tho
inspiration ?condi removal , regen , idefender
chrono : no need to explain for this one

mirage is worse than almost every trait line for one meh blink that takes a elite slot .
or a GM trait that lets you burn your dodge for pitty dmg unless you slowly summon 3 clones during a fight .

i meant the whole build work around Ineptitude. what you even need mirage for ?

Vulnerability to high condition application and condition bombing would be huge! Playstyle would require something similar to power shatter mesmer and thief, avoidance and get-in get-out. This wouldn’t be a dueling, sustain, or hold the point kind of build.

Defense (in addition to major kiting requirements) would probably have to come from its high blind access, repositioning, cc (daze, stun), and evasion (Mirage Cloak, allowing you to continue attacking).

Mirage would be taken to allow for additional condition access, low cooldown stunbreak with minor condition cleanse, access to axe, and cover casting with Mirage Cloak.

Riddle of Sand and Ineptitude would make for easy confusion application on par with Illusions traits without needing any illusions. Axe would grant low cooldown condition application. Torment would come from axe, and you would gain bleed spike potential from Dueling.

Over the weekend I played something different than this, so I cannot verify the idea. This is articulation of what I think the op may be considering and why. I’m just guessing here.

Mirage is extremely good

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Allarius.5670

Oh, this looks fun: whack-a-mole guess the build. Actually, this thread is kind of productive in a round about way: there has been some interesting theory crafting and associated drawbacks brought up and discussed that I haven’t exactly seen elsewhere.

Here is my guess:


“Pulmonary Impact Mirage”
(Daredevil through the eyes of Mesmer)

Dueling: Duelist’s Discipline (with pistol, otherwise Desperate Decoy), Blinding Dissipation, Ineptitude
Chaos: Descent into Madness, Chaotic Dampening, Chaotic Interruption
Mirage: Riddle of Sand, Mirrored Axes, Elusive Mind or maybe Infinite Horizon

Axe with Pistol (?) and Staff
Heal (?), Mantra of Distraction, Portal (?), Blink (?), Jaunt

Sigils: Energy and Cleansing on both
Runes: Lyssa, Nightmare, or Adventure

Amulet: Condi duration is good here (condition spread and not running Illusions for improved Confusion duration) and Precision (bleed procs for Sharper Images). Lower power scaling on axe, so maybe Wanderer or Deadeye, Viper seems too fragile to actually run anywhere (learn to play on my part?).

From what I can tell, it would have problems if it gets condition bombed and it has no real sustain, would need to remain elusive and avoid prolonged focus. It does have burst, control, mobility and evasion to help with survival and roaming. Would also struggle with high, multi-stack stability uptime without boonrip.

Chaos storm access approx every 15 sec, possible interrupt procs with cover conditions and pairs well with Lingering Thoughts whirl finisher. Interrupts enable one another (Mantra refreshes Diversion, interrupts refresh Pistol). Multiple ways to pressure and condition bomb with low relative cooldown and high repetition. Reasonable torment access, high bleed and high confusion, lots of cover potential.

No moles were harmed in this guess work.

Mirage Demo Weekend Feedback

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

I wish a moderator, developer, or frequent mesmer forum community member would create a series of narrowly focused threads about the different aspects of the Mirage to help focus feedback and discussion. This thread, and the forums in general, are a total mess; I’m not sure anyone can really get anything useful out of the current chaos.

Since this seems to be the place to dump feedback in totality, here is my exhaustive feedback in as brief and as organized a fashion as I can muster. For transparency, this is coming from someone who adored the Mirage and focuses on PvP and would play it as is despite lower functionality because of how much I enjoyed it.


Increase range of auto attack chain, Imaginary Axes, and Lingering Thoughts to make axe a near-melee weapon. Increases fluidity and functionality of use, slight increase to defensive positioning for self and clones.

Imaginary Axes – Consider increasing number of axes, amount of confusion applied by each, or adding torment or bleed.

Lingering Thoughts – Consider increasing distance traveled.

Axes of Symmetry – Decrease distance between mesmer and clones to the target after shadow stepping to help with verticality and chase potential. Consider increasing potential leap distance after shadow stepping to increase chase potential.


False Oasis – Decrease cooldown. Depends on what is done to Mirage Mirrors, as this could find use as a functional utility to a PvE rotation to maximize damage.

Illusionary Ambush – Decrease distance between mesmer and illusions to the target after shadow stepping to help with verticality and chase potential. Allow use on target when out of range and out of direct sight to increase chase potential and gap closing.

Mirage Advance – Decrease cast time. Allow use on target when out of range and out of direct sight to increase chase potential and gap closing.

Crystal Sands – Depends on what is done to Mirage Mirrors. Beautiful, but no functional use currently. Could have potential if the cooldown was dramatically decreased and animation speed dramatically increased.

Sand through Glass – Depends on what is done to Mirage Mirrors. Increase evade time slightly and travel distance.

Jaunt – Increase range by a touch, 600 for example. Would dramatically improve functionality for defense, offense, and mobility.


Mirage Cloak – Fine.

Nomad’s Endurance – “Shatter skills return endurance based on the number of illusions shattered and give vigor, which grants condition damage.” Endurance per illusion approx 10 (less if proves to be too strong), may or may not include self. Makes shatters rewarding and enables Mirage Cloak

Speed of Sand – “Gain Superspeed and Swiftness when you gain Mirage Cloak.” Superspeed is fine as is, consider increasing to 1 sec. Add Swiftness in duration of 5 sec or higher to improve mobility in-combat and rotationally (Thief through eyes of a Mesmer after all).


Self-Deception – Either rename as appropriate (Desert Deception?) and decrease deception cooldowns (20%) OR deception skills always grant a clone.

Renewing Oasis – Great conceptually but needs something. Maybe share the healing you receive from regeneration with others in a radius around you, similar to Healing Prism, turning the mesmer into an “oasis”.

Riddle of Sand – Fine.


Shards of Glass – Depends on what you do with Mirage Mirrors. Could be okay with decreased cooldown.

Mirage Mantle – Increase base duration of protection. Have it grant protection to your illusions as well.

Mirrored Axes – Increase attack distance (see axe suggestions above).


Infinite Horizon – Fine.

Elusive Mind – Fine.

Dune Cloak – Increase attack radius of Sand Shards and have it trigger around all of your illusions as well. A fair homage to “on-death” traits that some mesmers cannot get over and would find functional use in a PvE rotation with phantasms.


Increase window of activation for the ambush to improve functionality of use. Ideally also remove the cooldown and have each Mirage Cloak grant 1 ambush.

These all feel good, but consider adding additional to the greatsword ambush. Massive stacks of vulnerabilty and/or a cripple may be sufficient.


Increase life time duration of the mirror and increase the radius by which weakness is applied.

These are beautiful and interesting, albeit clunky. I’d hate to see them go so much as their functionality smoothed over. Here is a more “wild” suggestion I had.

Profession Mechanic F5 (not a shatter): Mirage Mirror – Allows you to place a mirage mirror within 900 like Crystal Sands. Holds ammo and recharges over time. Base ammo is 1 but traits and deception skills that grant Mirage Mirror add additional ammo charges. Some utilities may add more (for example Crystal Sands). Grants greater control of placement and builds Mirage Mirror into the spec naturally while feeling like less of an oversight. Might also remove the need to alter Nomad’s Endurance as suggested above.

Predict the next expanions elite spec

in Mesmer

Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

I dunno about stats/abilities but i would love a spec based around illusionary weaponry (like from gw 1) summoning illusionary weapons that do physical damage as if they were real weapons (like mesmer version of an engi kit)

Hah! I was thinking about this exact same idea the other day, using illusionary weapons to create “engineer through the eyes of a mesmer”. In my day dreaming it was called “Saboteur” and illusionary weapon kits were like partial engineer kits: equipping one only generated a main-hand or off-hand weapon based on type. Heal and elite were main-hand and the four utilities were offhand. What each shatter did changed based on the heal, utility, and elite equipped like the tool belt. It was beautiful!

Am I the only one at least a little pleased?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

Here is a thought I wanted to run by the rest of the community to see what you think regarding the Mirage Mirror and Ambush dilemma to increase functionality and general smoothness of use:

Profession Mechanic F5 (not a shatter, goes above health globe): Mirage Mirror

  • Place a Mirage Mirror within 900 (like Crystal Sands without the confusion; also, increase mirror lifetime)
  • When you have Mirage Cloak, F5 sequences into your Ambush skill (longer window)
  • Recharges at set rate and holds additional charges (ammo mechanic)
  • Deception skills and traits that produce Mirage Mirrors now add a charge to your F5 (can be variable based on source; for example, Crystal Sands could add >1 charge)

Other Feedback

I’m enjoying it as well. I’m not saying its perfect and agree it needs something, but I AM having fun with it. This isn’t exhaustive, there is plenty of feedback going around, but here are a few thoughts.

Axe and Illusionary Ambush: Greatly reduce the distance between the mirage and illusions to their destination target when shadow stepping. Hopefully this would greatly improve flexibility and solve vertical axis problems.

Axe: Double (or more?) the range of the auto attack and Lingering Thoughts. Allow Imaginary Axes (ambush skill) to cast without having to face target. This would change axe into a “near melee” range (similar to elementalist dagger) caster-style weapon. I feel both the suggested changes would dramatically increase its functionality.

Ambush Skills: Autoattacking into mirage cloak feels clunky because of the relationship with ambush; it does not feel responsive. Window to utilize ambush skills would feel much better if increased. Possible solution suggested above.

Ambush skills

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

These are supposed to be the core of Mirage’s DPS potential

Where did you hear this?

Armor type skins for every class

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

I too want this. I always pictured it implemented as a “Custom Outfit” gem store item where you specified heavy, medium, or light, filled it out like you would any other time you switch skins, and then use it.

There are lots of ways they could implement it. Maybe it would be “Custom Outfit: Heavy”, etc. Changing the outfit could cost transmutation charges or require a new purchase each time depending on just how much they wanted to use the gemstone.

Outfits and default models really did remove any need to maintain purity of profession appearance for easy identification.

All Mirage Skills and Traits

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

None of this fixes the problem of Power shatter that the initial burst won’t finish off any decent spec and we have no follow up damage to get the kill.

Power shatter is a +1 roamer. I think I understand what you are saying, but I’m not sure where you are going with it.

All Mirage Skills and Traits

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

Honestly, by the looks of how things have shaped up, I fully expect power shatter mirage to be the default spec for PvP, at least initially. Mirage enables power shatter so rediculously well on paper.

Start with:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAsfhk1qBz0Q50gKzQzTAZAWwyB-TZxHABXXGw/HAw3HBgx3fAgTBAA

Mirage: Self Deception, Shards of Glass, Elusive Mind

Heal: False Oasis, Ether Feast, or Mirror depending on matchup

Utility: Illusionary Ambush

Elite: Jaunt

Optional runes: Lynx for additional mobiliy, Pack all around, Lyssa against overwhelming condition teams, Scholar

Optional amulet: Berserker

Role: DPS roamer, Asssasin

All Mirage Skills and Traits

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Allarius.5670

It looks like they wanted to give mirage greatsword a ranged cleave, which it will do in a different/easier fashion than the autoattack. This sounds okay mechanically and meets the long requested ability to range tag effectively. If it is undertuned it can be made workable by boosting damage and/or adding utility, like boon rip. I think the reasoning is sound, but the functionality (like the axe ambush) feels a little lackluster compared to some of the others because of all the little bits they get added on.

Tournaments are unbalanced

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

This is how I understand it. Blow out matches do not help losing players to improve because the match is so one sided they cannot identify where things went wrong and what to try doing different next time. Tournaments do not exist to help players improve, they exist to identify and award the best team within the tournament.

This is a case of misidentifying what either party is talking about. Players complaining would like an avenue to play as a team against other teams of more comparable skill such that they can improve. They do not want to win an automated tournament, they want to be challenged and improve. Skrims are ideal for this situation, but it is likely they have had no luck finding an additional set of 5 players for a coordinated time. To encourage improvement, some have suggested adding a lower skill tournament that runs simultaneously or a skrim tournament that runs constantly and initiates when enough players are found. In either case, rewards are not equivalent to the normal automated tournament because it isn’t about winning or the rewards, but about practice and improvement.

Controversial, Celestial back with PoF

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

I agree with Trevor. Assuming spellbreaker and scourge successfully counter what would likely be the rise of multiple cele builds: (1) you force all teams to include both counter specs and limit build diversity, and (2) if all the needed boons are stripped away consistently, what would have been the purpose to reintroduce cele anyway? Assuming both counters cannot keep up with aoe boon support of multiple opponents, then you’ve successfully slowed down the game and forced cele use to compete, again limiting diversity.

Let us move beyond the nostalgia of yesterday and try to concretely determine what cele would actually bring to the current state of the game and what we anticipate with PoF. Show us some theory crafting of builds you would expect to become functional and worthwhile only upon introduction of cele that are currently not or otherwise would not be upon the expansion release AND that would also be good for the game and promote diversity.

Mirage offhand choice

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

Can U give link to footages with this changes?

Sorry for the delay, went to bed shortly after posting. The footage is in Wooden Potato’s after show. For a brief moment he passes over The Prestige at some point. He also has the trait panel open multiple times and you can see the trait swap. Unfortunately I couldn’t find any preview video where trait lines other than Dueling, Illusions, and Mirage were open. Aurora Peachy’s long elite spec preview video has a moment where it hovers over Phantasmal Mage and I did not see any changes there. I certainly could’ve missed something and there is always the possibility one or more of these changes don’t make live.

Mirage offhand choice

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Allarius.5670

Looks like there are some additional changes that may be worth considering. The Prestige now removes a condition without its trait. Mistrust and Ineptitude have swapped places, and it appears as though Ineptitude now applies two stacks of confusion on blind. Thematically Ineptitude belongs in Dueling, but I’ll personally miss grabbing both Mistrust and Master of Fragmentation. Will be interesting to see what other changes come through.

Mirage is a phantasm build?

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Allarius.5670

What’s the targeting range on jaunt, btw?

I don’t think we know yet. The tool tip was partially cut off in the videos I watched and hid the range. I think 600 would be a safe bet, 900 feels like it might be pushing it and less than 600 seems very restrictive.

Infinite Horizon shouldn't be a GM trait.

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

Addendum to previous thought …

What if Wooden Potatoes was partially correct in “clones have auto attack > ambush changes auto attack > clones get ambush”. Consider that Infinite Horizon applies the Mirage Cloak trait to all of your illusions, but the ambush skill is an auto attack flip mechanic and phantasms do not share the auto attack. This would mean that only clones get the ambush, but phantasms still get the blur.

Consider also that the ambush skills we’ve seen so far apply torment and confusion, decidedly less effective conditions in PvE. Axe clones can be very effective bleed spammers and PvE mesmer aims to primarily stack bleeds via pistol.

I’m not a hard core PvE’er, but this does seem to suggest that Dune Cloak was intended for PvE use and squarely places each grandmaster into a different function: Infinite Horizon to diversify condition application outside of shatters in PvP settings, Elusive Mind for defense/support/power PvP roles, and Dune Cloak for PvE condi dps.

(edited by Allarius.5670)

Infinite Horizon shouldn't be a GM trait.

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Allarius.5670

Unless I’m understanding this wrong, a singular Ether Barrage puts out an average of 2.5 confusion and 2.5 torment because it reads either one or the other, not both.

If Infinite Horizon is going to be moved, it absolutely should be a minor or built into the mechanic, anywhere else will just rule out selection of alternatives in that tier as the discussion suggests now.

The only place that Dune Cloak makes sense is in PvE unless Infinite Horizon allows phantasms to deal effective power damage, in which case I do not see a place for Dune Cloak as is. It requires melee and condition duration is usually favored less over condition damage by most PvP players. Infinite Horizon is just too versatile in any kind of player vs player format for Dune Cloak to see use there.

Elusive Mind is a very different beast. I could see this being used in a non-damage, support role allowing the Mirage to take additional support utilities over stun breaks.

(edited by Allarius.5670)

Infinite Horizon shouldn't be a GM trait.

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Allarius.5670

I will play devil’s advocate because I think this is an interesting point to explore.

Thematically, based on the descriptions provided by the developers in the release trailer, the Mirage is all about enabling the Mesmer to blend into their environment, most especially the desert.

In the game world, this presumedly makes opponents question whether or not the Mesmer is really there or just a mirage, the desert playing tricks on them. This is in contrast to the idea that it makes the Mesmer appear as if they were one of their traditional illusions, which is decidedly not the theme.

Infinite Horizon expands this theme to include illusions, making opponents in the game world wonder if the illusions are mirages too. Because illusions exist in the minds of opponents, this acts as an additional layer of confusion, causing the opponent to further question what is real and what is not.

In the game world, opponents already question which illusion is the real Mesmer. Helping the Mesmer blend into their illusions is a player interpretation forced on to the theme, not actually part of the native theme.

There is no reason why the trait still could not be included as a minor and just always have the theme expand to include illusions, except in so far as allowing the Mirage room to distance its identity from the Mesmer as a clone/phantasm generator. In other words, not including guaranteed access allows the Mirage to deemphasize traditional illusions in favour of emphasizing cloaking themselves in illusion magic so far as theme and identity are concerned.

Regarding gameplay and player opponents, the “illusions get ambush” mechanic was likely considered too strong to grant to all Mirages on top of other grandmaster traits and mechanics. Regarding balance, it probably made sense to enforce choice on the player. Considering room for counterplaying (illusion cleaving, dodging a single coordinated attack, projectile reflection, etc.) and potential incoming nerfs, there is probably gameplay space for the other traits to see use, especially once players get used to it and how to counter it.

This is just playing devil’s advocate for the sake of discussion. Personally, I see and understand the argument for, but I am undecided as to where I stand on it without actual in-game experience with it both thematically and mechanically.

PoF Website Profession Symbol Swap

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

Just noticed that when browsing the elite specializations on the Path of Fire website page, the Mirage symbol is titled Necromancer and links you to Scourge, vice versa for the Scourge symbol. Watching the videos shows the associated symbol, which does not matched with the link symbol.

Mirage - power build discussion

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

Specialization trait:
Mirage cloak – should work fine with power builds
Ambush attack – could be good with power builds. Remember, each weapon gets its own ambush. So while axe and staff (shown in the woodenpotatoes video) were condi barrages, its likely sword and greatsword will get power based ambushes.
-Note: with traits (grandmaster 1), ambush attacks can trigger on both clones AND phantasms. We currently don’t know what phantasms will do in practice though – maybe mirror your mainhand ambush, or possibly do nothing.

—1. Infinite horizon: Ambushes trigger for illusions (clones and phantasms) as well. Works with power.

We only really have speculation at this point regarding exact mechanics, but I’m leaning on this interpretation being correct. After carefully re-watching the videos I’d seen previously, in every case where the traits were shown, Infinite Horizon was always selected. In no case were phantasms ever spawned for verification. So, based on wording of all traits, Wooden Potato’s explanation to the effect of ‘auto-attack becomes ambush > clones auto-attack > clones get ambush innately’ does not seem correct.

I suspect the ambush skill is enabled on all illusions as stated and the associated stats of the illusion are applied: clones deal near zero power damage, phantasms deal normal power damage, and both deal full condition damage. Whether or not power or power/condi hybrid is an effective option is going to depend on the power coefficients of the ambush skills.

Regarding detargeting and PvP, I suspect the the “which one am I” playstyle interpretation is not the intention of the entire profession. Thematically and in PvE sure, but for PvP the best case scenario is a delay in reaction, buying you a moment of time in addition to the axe 3 evade. Since axe 3 does not stop actual casting, whatever skill the opponent was casting should still follow through just like against opponents who go stealth mid-attack.

I fully expect it to mess with targeting when combined with target saturation and stealth, so some creative use should certainly be effective. However, the primary use is likely to be the 600 range shadow step and illusion re-target for in-combat mobility (damage avoidance by position) and surprise shattering.

With regards to Mirage Cloak, I wouldn’t underestimate the functional utility of having such amazing cover for casting. But, should one find that insufficient, and if the interpretation of the grandmaster trait above turns out to be true, Mirage Cloak may also provide power burst via ambush skills.

Weaver discussion

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

Looks very intresting. But will be hard if i canĀ“t swap to an element gaining the same skills on 4+5 evry time. E.G. when i swap to air for breaking a block shield i need my unblockable knockdown on 5, regardless which element i currently am in …
Same for magnetic wave. I am dead if i need 3s to use it. the swap, cast when i see rapid fire aiming or a condi bomb striking makes win or die.

Definitely a change of pace emphasizing proactive gameplay over reactive gameplay with respect to skills 4 and 5. Sort of like a Mesmer using blurred frenzy as a layer of defense more often than as a reaction to a specific incoming attack. The real meat of swapping is immediate access to the dual skill and it’s functionality.

I stopped maining ele when cele d/d was born, but this looks pretty sick!

Scourge got portal.....

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Allarius.5670

I saw a tooltip for it somewhere but cannot find it now. I do recall it stating that it removed a condition from allies that used it … Indicating it can be used by allies. Dunno if it has the same kind of range, but I hope it does.

Distributing portal does a number of really great things for PvP (and keep in mind it would be locked behind Scourge). For starters, it allows Mesmers to run with an alternate utility other than portal and diversify accessible roles by doing so. Second, additional rotational capacity (Scourge + Mesmer) could help effectively counter Thief/Daredevil rotation effectiveness, something that cannot be matched at the moment. Based on the second note, countering +1 Thief allows for Thief to expand to other accessible roles as well.

A little more off topic, but increasing team fight effectiveness in this kind of way might encourage greater build interdependence, emphasizing specialized roles and deemphasizing “do-everything builds”.

Mantra Update

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

Just FYI

Firebrand tooltips on Reddit suggest new mantra mechanic.

1) Long initial cast
2) Stores charges as normal
3) Final charge is more effective
4) So long as final charge is not spent, mantra will continue regaining charges on an interval

Edit: Dunno whether this is Firebrand only or all mantras.

(edited by Allarius.5670)

Mirage dodge?

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Allarius.5670

A few things to note:

1) The Grandmaster Minor may help with the lack of innate movement with the dodge. Still no dodge jumping in the traditional sense, but maybe this helps make up for it to a degree:

Grandmaster Minor: Speed of Sand – Gain Superspeed (0.75 sec) when you gain mirage cloak

2) From Wooden Potato’s explanation, it would seem the Ambush skill only works on clones, not phantasms, because it alters the auto attack shared with the clones.

3) Two skills that we know of so far that detarget: Axe 3 and (based on Wooden Potato’s explanation) the Elite (max 3 charges). It turns out that each skill also applies a random shadow step mechanic with the mesmer AND clones (like a visual reset). This means that re-targeting the mesmer will not be immediate and a delay will exist, more so depending on where the shadow step has put the mesmer.

Axes of Symmetry: You and all your axe clones shadowstep to a random location around your target and strike, applying confusion. This attack breaks enemy targeting, and your illusions change focus to the targeted foe.

Mirage dodge?

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

The versatility of activating skills during an evade frame might outweigh the mobility loss, especially considering some of the on weapon mobility mesmer has access to: sword 3, staff 2, and axe 3.

I love that GW1 Mesmer is finally here!

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Allarius.5670

There was also a Grandmaster trait that broke stun and cleansed a condition on using dodge (whatever the new mechanic is called). So even if it is difficult to necessarily avoid detection and successfully blend in, locking you down may turn out to be very hard. Or, well, at least long enough for some of that crazy condi burst to do its work (mesmer cloak = auto attack becomes “stealth” attack = all clones get that too).

All the specs do look crazy op. Apparently there are coming (major?) adjustments to current elite specs to help focus them and give better distinction with the coming ones. The concept of the spec (hiding in plain sight) is pretty sweet … well, all of them were pretty sweet. Very beautiful all around.

Path of Fire ... No PvP content?

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Allarius.5670

In a recent AMA they stated that sPvP and WvW content is released as it is available and is not held back for expansions.

Is Abaddon dead or alive?

in Lore

Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

By this logic, plus other speculation on my part, would it not be possible that Balthazar is not actually Balthazar, but Abaddon in disguise?

From the GW1 wiki it sounds like he was trying to coalesce his essence into form, hence his appearance as a disembodied head and hands. Maybe the bloodstone explosion provided energy to do something like this, generating an under-powered bodily form, especially in the context he was drained of power in his prior defeat. It might also explain why he had access to Lyssa’s mirror given what we now know regarding Siren’s landing, how he kept various relics from all the gods safe and had such an easy time accessing these vaults (or getting others to do so for him).

Earlier in the season there was also a letter that referred to Balthazar (supposedly?) as “master” … which struck me as an odd turn of phrase, but doesn’t mean much. I dunno why he would throw off the Lazarous disguise for a Balthazar one, though.

Considering other speculation I saw elsewhere regarding how Abaddon may have known about dragon magic, and utilized it, previously, could explain his willingness to hunt down and drain the dragons of power. Is there anything to suggest Balthazar, other than being a god, would be so fully capable in the realm of magic energy manipulation and the use of various relics not his own?

I’m not a lore hound, so this is just unsubstantiated ruminating for funzies!

MASSIVE Balance changes.

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Allarius.5670

I started reading but stopped at #2.. terrormancer was not like burn guard or condi thief. Fire (burn) did not stack back then, so it was def not like this current meta.

Whelp, I guess that is your prerogative. Generally, if you wan to encourage good discussion, you don’t run at the first sign of disagreement, but instead ask for clarification.

Not that you did, but clarifying my statement …

1) No build pre-HOT is like what we have today. You need to compare pre-HOT builds to pre-HOT metas and how the game was played then. I am NOT suggesting Terrormancer is like burn Guard or condi Thief of today, or even that Terrormancer was exactly like burn Guard back then.

2) Keeping Terrormancer in context of its early meta, NOT what we have today. How do YOU define burst or burst build? Lots of damage in a short period of time, usually with a period of relief between episodes of damage. How did Terrormancer play? Condi-saturate in a short period of time to cover chain fears that dealt respectable damage (for the time). It isn’t burst LIKE a burn Guard, but it is a burst PLAYSTYLE (for that time and meta)

Feel free to disagree, everyone has a different perspective. Your response is … unfortunate. Pre-HOT metas look to be part of the conversation you wanted to have (looking at the past), but isn’t the main focus you hoped for (what can be done about the game). To that end, getting lost in the technicalities of prior metas, and assuming it is an indicator of the validity of other statements, is … well, your prerogative.

MASSIVE Balance changes.

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Allarius.5670

Big thanks for topic and discussion! Here is a stream of thought in response to various points in various posts and on the overall topic/suggestions. Mostly follows a pseudo time-line. I apologize for not creating a more cohesive structure.

1) Elite specs are the way ANET has decided to advance the game; suggesting they get removed is probably counterproductive to fruitful discussion because it isn’t realistic. Good starting point for discussion though!

2) Burst condi existed previously: terrormancer. Condi-overload and chain fear to achieve kills.

3) Condi had low presence in early metas because of support guard. There were a few options: (1) apply overload of condies to cover high damage burst condies (terrormancer), (2) apply high damage condies with reasonable frequency (cele ele, burn guard), or (3) some level of both (side-point dueling ranger builds: traps, spirits). Condi mesmer struggled to make meta because team fight cleave and slow(er) illusion generation made it difficult to support team fights or hold a side node (stealth and avoidance reliance).

4) There are counters to each mechanic. Builds become meta when they can apply overwhelming force to eat through potential counters and apply their effect.

5) Generally, pre-HOT meta builds had more weaknesses because professions were initially designed for these to exist. This made meta builds more reliant on a team to help cover in areas they lacked. ANET supported this design (see spirit ranger nerf) up until the cele ele reign.

6) Hard counters were more apparent pre-HOT because of these increased weaknesses and some professions (low mesmer population in NA and low necromancer population in EU) struggled more than others.

7) Fast forward to post-HOT and professions are given new tools to round out their toolbox, making cele ele design a standard.

8) Through various (rapid) iterations, meta undergoes multiple changes from bunker to today.

9) Meta builds are well rounded (cele ele+) and still focus on overwhelming application of one or a few mechanics to achieve effectiveness. Builds are less dependent on the team and more capable of filling alternative roles on the fly. Anything that isn’t meta (doesn’t use the elite spec) is less well rounded, less flexible, and more of a liability because of increased vulnerability to counterplay.

10) Conquest will always weed out less flexible builds because of how it forces players to split away from the team. A greater focus on team play might increase diversity by allowing builds to go “all in” and utilize alllies to cover their weaknesses. We can see this evolution by the drop off in necro population in the last community tournament for EU because of the meta build’s greater dependency on support.

11) Hard counters are not fun and are not okay (see thief/mesmer interaction for majority of pre-HOT). Increasing vulnerabilities decreases chance of counterplay if team fights are not also focused.

12) The game is a rotational one and players are drivers of meta builds. Skill comes in rotating, and fascilitating rotations, to apply the correct overwhelming mechanic to the most vulnerable target more often and in a more effective manner than the opposing team.

What can reasonably be done?

  1. Build, alter, or develop game modes and maps/map mechanics that focus heavily on team proximity and team play to encourage greater specialization and interdependence.
  2. Use precision skill/balance iteration to reduce the synergies that make a build so effective. Apply strategy across all over-performing meta builds that pop up. (Current approach)
  3. Use future elite specializations to open alternate builds and increase diversity. Bonus points if they include mechanisms that can punish current mechanics in some way that doesn’t feel “cheesy”, increasing vulnerabilities and forcing counter-building (and by extension build diversity).

(edited by Allarius.5670)

What I would like to see in a new profession:

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

I wrote up an elite spec idea for elementalist recently that shares some of these ideas (minus the pets). I called it “Spell Forge” and it used two-handed hammer as a ranged casting weapon with a “spell-smithing” kind of theme. It focused on control and condi application in a sort of mirror of staff. Each #2 skill was an attunement associated mark (like necro marks).

The utility skills were something I called seals. The mechanic for seals went like this:

  1. Lock a spell behind a magical seal, allowing it to build in power. Would have some kind of visual marker associated with it to notify players and opponents of its location and the identity of the specific seal.
  2. After casting a seal a sequence skill becomes available to remove the seal and release the built up spell.
  3. The sequence skill can be activated immediatly for a diminished effect, but after every increment of 3 seconds the power of the spell would increase and layer an additional effect over the first with an even greater radius for the new effect. Increments max out at twice, so after 6 seconds of gestation the spell reaches maximum effectiveness but can still be held off on activation.

Here is an example:


Seal of Flame – (0.5 sec cast, 20 sec cd) Lock a spell of fire magic behind a seal to later be released.

Sequence 1 (Immediately available): Break the Seal – (0.25 sec cast) Unleash your spell to create a lingering area of flames that damages foes (Fire field, 3 sec duration, 360 radius).

Sequence 2 (Available after 3 sec): Break the Seal – (0.25 sec cast) Unleash your spell to create a lingering area of flames that damages foes (Fire field, 3 sec duration, 360 radius). Create a blast of energy that damages nearby foes (Blast finisher, 600 radius damage application).

Sequence 3 (Available after 6 sec): Break the Seal – (0.25 sec cast) Unleash your spell to create a lingering area of flames that damages foes (Fire field, 3 sec duration, 360 radius). Create a blast of energy that damages nearby foes (Blast finisher, 600 radius damage application range). Unleash a devestating wave of flame to burn all foes in a large area (Applies multiple burn stacks, 1200 radius application range).

F5 was a new profession mechanic that consumed “Arcane Flux”, temporarily locked you into an attunement, and replaced attunements with a set of low cd arcane themed skills that provided defense, utility, or enhancement buffs for your other skills.

Not quite the same, but like others have said it could certainly be executed through an elite specialization. Thanks for sharing!