Guild Wars 2

Terror damage does not increase with vulnerability stacks. With the recent changes that allow vulnerability to apply to condition damage I assume it is meant to apply to Terror as well.

I logged in to post exactly that, Me Games Ma! The cooldown was 5 sec … so you should be able to maintain permanent Fury up time if you can get your opponent below 75% health.

As interesting as I though the previous trait was, I like this change as it benefits both condition and power builds.

Hey Chaos! I had something similar in mind when I mentioned “Inspirational Interruptions” in the lock-down thread. But since were are talking about Chaos Maestro, here are some quick thoughts from a pvp perspective …

The build wants to be front to mid-line to maximize boon generation and amplification. Even with frequent protection, zerker is going to be more vulnerable. With the condition changes much of staff’s damage feels wasted without some condi investment.

Interruption here can be used as a precision implement to put priority skills on cooldown and/or generate boons. That versatility sounds great but feels like it is pulling the use of interrupts in two directions. The Domination traits are nice, but the build might get more mileage out of 0/6/6/6/0 and going celestial. It adds more condition pressure, staying power, and increases the effectiveness of other possibilities (Restorative Illusions).

Dueling: Phantasmal Fury or Desperate Decoy, Blinding Dissipation, Deceptive Evasion
Chaos: Master of Manipulation, Chaotic Dampening, Chaotic Interruption
Inspiration: Medic’s Feedback, Warden’s Feedback or Restorative Illusions, Illusionary Inspiration

I think Robert said in the video that Restorative Illusions still removes conditions from allies. Even if this isn’t the case it still gives improved personal staying power.

If the build is expected to be a primary point holder, Bountiful Dissillusionment may go up in priority, but Shoutbow goes without stability just fine. The synergy
with Into the Void>Phantasmal Warden in a team fight is just so nice.

Considering the likelihood of being in the midst of a fight, blink feels like a must for the on-demand re-positioning. Null field would also help with Chaos Armor upkeep in
addition to all its other perks.

I think these changes would help give the build more of a defined role to fulfill in addition to spreading the boon love.

What is this? No Inspirational Interruptions (6/0/6/6/0)?

Trait Changes:

I’ve read some suggestions about reworking Death Shroud to remove “life force as health” to accommodate a plethora of different ideas (from receiving heals in Death Shroud, to more active defensive options, etc.). What do you think this would actually look like in a balanced, practical form while still maintaining that Necro flair and identity?

With Life Force no longer restrained to “second health bar” I liked the idea of using it as a resource for more than just entering and maintaining Death Shroud, much like the profession description suggests.

Also, Jagged Horrors could be used as another resource in and around traits that effect minions, alleviating the need to go full minion master.

I also like the idea of forgoing actual damage in siphoning traits (generally your hits are doing damage anyways) … allowing for what would hopefully be an easier time balancing a “heal on hit” effect.

In the posts below I gathered some ideas I saw floating around the forums with a few that came to mind. Feel free to post feed back, but mostly I’m interested in additional ideas you might come up with for skills, traits, or whatever.

Clone on death traits were an interesting mechanic, but like current phantasm builds they discouraged you from actively using what is supposed to be the defining mechanic of the Mesmer profession: shatters. Creating illusions and then shattering them for base and traited effects are the vision the devs have for the Mesmer class, and arguably the vision they have had from the beginning, discouraging use of the profession mechanic is not part of that vision.

I think that is reasonable.

Death Nova and Minion Master may be an alternative worth looking into.

Mimic, 1/4 sec cast, 30 sec cooldown
Manipulation: Copy boons and daze your foe. Copy all boons if you interrupt your foe.
Daze: 1 sec
Boons Copied: 3
Boons Copied on Interrupt: 12
Range: 900
Unblockable

… I think that might just about do it …

:D

So, what if …

Instead of swapping to a second pet, the Druid and his pet meld. It wouldn’t be a full weapon set swap, but rather alter their profession skills (F1-F3), with F4 splitting the Ranger and pet apart again. The profession skills could be based on the family of the pet that was equipped, perhaps even one being a Ranger counterpart to that pet’s species specific skill.

I don’t think we know how traits, trait lines, and trait line attributes will change with any specialization yet, but if they are kept much the same then any points in the Beast Mastery equivalent (healing power and Pet Attribute Bonus) could award the Druid the Pet Attribute Bonus while melded.

Just a fun thought that came to mind and figured I would share.

I believe Chaos has a similar trait spread from long ago when he was experimenting with a lot of support builds. I think it is in the build sticky at the top of the forum. It may be worth looking into that too.

My “go to” build is extremely similar, but I mostly sPvP and do not WvW:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsdWlknpWtNqxMNMrNipxc6jWaLSGQDlslxB-TpBFwACeAAIOEA12fYxRAoaZAAnAAA

The primary, or “core”, trait selection is the same (Shattered Concentration, Deceptive Evasion, Shattered Conditions) with the same overarching concept as yours: remove enemy offensive and defensive assets while contributing to your team.

I dropped the build for a while to experiment with others and try to better grasp shatter (power and condi)/interrupt/pure support, but I have begun messing around with it again to see how I might be able to make it work better for me.

I have always been partial to the idea of Mantra channeling happening in the background, simultaneous to the activation of other skills, but still interrupted by cc or dodging; only a single mantra at a time, mind you.

“I think we would have had a better chance of winning if we had regrouped more often. What do you guys think would have helped?”

Who is the figure with the shield and sword at the end of the cinematic when Braham is speaking? It sort of seems to resemble Canach, but I’m not sure …

Nick.6972:

I’m actually quite disappointed, If this is indeed the “big background project” they’ve been working for two years.
I’ve never been into the new lore of GW2, or PvE, however I always hoped that we’ll be returning to the other two continents by the time the first expansion rolls out, but, it’s quite obvious that this new thing confirms the opposite, it’s as if they’re avoiding GW1.
So, no thumbs up from me, but I’m hoping that this supposed expansion pack at least brings a new map and extremely needed WvW changes.

Well … there was the creature hovering about in the cinematic when Caithe was talking. Looked an awful lot like something from GW1 … Maybe that helps?

perilisk.1874:

Awesome! Hopefully the logo and name implies that we can finally get some content that’s focused on the Sylvari.

Not sure if serious, lol

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empowered_Illusions
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Strength

According to the wiki, Empowered Illusions only affects direct damage and not conditions. I tested this trait and Phantasmal Strength with iMage and the information on the wiki appears to be correct. Hope this helps.

Temporal Curtain on Mesmer Focus, ability #4, is not acting as a light field in The Heart of the Mists when using a leap finisher. Projectile and whirl finishers appear to be behaving normally.

This problem did not appear when tested in PvE (Lion’s Arch) and in an actual hotjoin match (Foefire).

Crazy duels, I was shaking by the end. Thanks again for the experience and for sharing, I am very grateful!

Carighan.6758:

How does inspiration support shatter work? I mean, is it just shatter-vigor + shatter-condicleanse + general shatter stuff from Dom and Duel?

Here is the build I run. My nickname for it is “Spell Breaker”. For the duels I swapped out Feedback for Decoy, and Moa for Mass Invisibility.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsdWlknpUttqxMNMrNipxc6jWaLSGQDlskxB-TZBFwA12fIxhAYxTAoaZAAnAAA

Like you suggest, pretty common trait selection. I am more than happy to talk about my experience with it so far, choices made, etc. I’d rather not hijack the Lockdown thread though. If anyone is interested let me know and I can post a new thread for discussion.

There are three traits (Debilitating Dissipation, Crippling Dissipation, and Confusing Combatants) that trigger conditions on nearby opponents when a clone is killed by damage or replacement (when the Mesmer creates a clone or phantasm when they already have three illusions up). Currently these three traits trigger on opponents regardless of whether the opponent dodges, blinds the Mesmer or clones, evades, or blocks.

The change to these traits will allow dodges, blinds, evades, and blocks to counter these traits, meaning if the opponent does any of these four things they may avoid the conditions that the traits try to apply when the clone dies.

These traits do not trigger with shatters and should not directly indicate a nerf to shattering damage.

Edit: Also, Debilitating Dissipation is being changed further. Currently it has a chance of applying Vulnerability, Weakness, or 3xBleeds for 5 seconds. The Bleed portion will be changed to 2xBleeds for 4 seconds.

Not to incite unwarranted hype, but I was curious … did anyone else notice something odd about the Mesmer/Necro picture on the blog post this week that gave us a vague outline of what is to come?

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-changes-in-the-september-2014-feature-pack/

Namely, the picture shows the Mesmer has cast Illusionary Leap at the Necro. There are a full set of illusions (2 clones and 1 phantasm) out. Notice, however, that the back Mesmer (where you would expect the player to be) has no animation showing, something you would expect considering: (1) the distance between the Mesmer and Necro, (2) the lunge animation of the other two Mesmers, and (3) the animation/timing for Illusionary Leap you currently see in game.

I suspect the back Mesmer is actually a clone, and the ability has been changed to leap the Mesmer forward. What this means for Swap and the immobility I don’t know. What do you think?

When I first read the blog I was thinking conditions on auto attacks as well. I was thinking something like Confusion (3 sec) > Torment (4 sec) > Clone. As the clones only use the first part of the chain, they would contribute only Confusion.

JinDaVikk.7291:

BUT they get more on demand condi cleanse. no more can you blind them to screw their non longbow condi cleanse.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Skill-Bar-Cleansing-Ire

Just for clarification, I don’t think this is the case … unless I’m missing something.

You’ll lose burst but you should have little problem surviving the condi onslaught and still pressure the mesmer into stealth and/or off point by going dagger/focus:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAodhMMacW4wzBf0AdABxxphBNlzbnB-TJxHwADeAAa2fAwJAoYZAA

Something like that should just about do it. Pace the condi cleanses apart to avoid an opening to condi burst, but keep it consistent … basically alleviating the condi pressure and using what sustain you do have to keep your health up. Swirling Winds, Magnetic Wave, and if necessary Obsidian Flesh should give you some great defensive options as well considering no small portion of the condis are coming from ranged attacks (Staff auto/clones, iMage).

For what it is worth here is my take on it …

I understand confusing images can be difficult to land during the best of times, but just how bad does that make the skill? First, if it does get altered, what are the chances it won’t be worse (bugged Mesmer abilities and all that …)? Second, consider ways of improving (though not guaranteeing) your chance to land it (Chaotic Interruption, Chaos Storm, etc.). Third, if it almost always baits out a dodge can you find a way to take advantage of that? Sometimes abilities are better because of their unintended results rather than the initially intended ones …

If it were to be changed I think something like Necro dagger 5 would be awesome, applying 3 stacks of confusion to all enemies in a 900 range, 240 radius ground targeted AOE. If that were the case I would also prefer removal of most of its power damage for another condition or secondary effect (blind, weakness, torment, etc.) to better emphasize scepter’s condition emphasis.

I’m pretty casual, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but here is my take on it …

Staff is a great support weapon, but for those reasons you have discovered/listed it struggles to provide the ele with the right tools for primary bunker. If you are going to try and do what a guardian does, I think the best place to start is to try and replicate the same toolkit as close as possible and then deviate away with play testing until you get something that works uniquely for you and your team setup.

To this end I suggest going scepter/focus and 0/0/4/4/4 at a minimum … the last two points going where you feel it works best for you. You certainly lose a lot of the great toys the staff provides, but you gain a great deal more similar to the bunker guardian’s kit … blinds, invulnerability, condi removal outside of water … but also great projectile defense, unique toughness boost, etc. Throw in arcane shield (lame cool down I know) for additional on demand blocks. With all the weapon set condi removal, plus cleansing fire if you take it, you could potentially switch out for another heal (signet of restoration, glyph, etc.).

Armor of earth will probably come from traits, but lightning flash and mist form are both great options … though I think another, often undervalued option is signet of air. The speed boost is beneficial for rotations, and the on demand blind and/or stun break gives it some great versatility. Plus, if you are only packing one cantrip you can think about forgoing reduced cantrip cooldowns for Soothing Wave … coupled with cleansing water should give you some nice additional condi cleansing over time.

Just a thought, take from it what you will. Best of luck

Thank you for the walk through Selan, this was very informative. I appreciate you taking the time to spell it out for me.

The skills I listed do not interrupt on their own, but combined with the Imbued Diversion trait (6 in Illusions I think) there is some potential for aoe daze. These skills generate the clone at the target (I think), allowing (in theory) to summon and shatter for aoe diversion in quick succession. But it would not be a short cooldown, and it seems like aoe interrupts are not likely to be effective due to rampant stability

I apologize if I have somehow offended any of you, this was not my intention and is why I admitted ignorance and asked for clarification. I am only trying to understand the situation, which I think is important to the cause of the discussion and for other readers who may not be fully familiar.

I agree, throwing down a utility skill every 60 seconds or so does not sound like fun, but I was thinking of an overarching “utility” role. I don’t know how WvW Mesmers build, but I was thinking (perhaps wrongfully) that a utility role would include reflection (i.e. feedback and traited temporal curtain), null field, and choice of portal or veil depending on what was needed. I would take scepter/focus and staff. As a utility role damage would be secondary to support (i.e. protection/punishment via reflection, condition/boon strip for the front line, troop redeployment via portal, chaos storm for support, etc.).

To me that sounds like it could be fun and would feel as though I had an important role that contributes to the greater success of the group. But it is true, it is only partially punishment oriented: reflection, temporal curtain secondary effect to punish bad positioning, portal tricks to punish poor deployment, etc.

Clone/phantasm death really does seem like an unfortunate circumstance, but also an unavoidable one. Maybe the developers are trying to do something about it already: as far as I know boon on shatter traits are not impacted by clone/phantasm number with the exception of shattered strength. I don’t think a boon share build in a zerg will be all that great though.

What about an interrupt build for zerg spamming punishment? Staff for chaos storm dazes, focus for the curtain pull … there is also the potential for AOE daze through the use of Mirror Blade/Scepter Auto/Illusionary Counter/Illusionary Riposte with Imbued Diversion. Again, not sure how effective this may be in practice, but the potential for three ranged aoe interrupts along with some Mesmer interrupt traits sounds like it would be fun to at least try.

Trading relative power/impact/importance of phantasms (and possibly clones) in exchange for greater effectiveness for Mesmer centered abilities seems like a very logical thing to do given the context of this discussion. Such a change should immediately increase the Mesmer’s effectiveness in WvW to some degree as well as reduce its 1v1 potential to some degree. It would be a fair trade for the WvWers and for opponents who detest the Mesmer’s mechanics without reducing (in theory) the profession’s overall capabilities … just play style.

For better or worse I don’t think the developers would institute such a change. Not only would it require a great deal of re-balancing throughout all aspects of the profession, but it would also detract from their concept for the profession. The phantasm/clone mechanic is a punishment mechanic at its core, though its effectiveness can be debated (i.e. go after the phantasm or the Mesmer, or go after the Mesmer’s shatter resource or the Mesmer).

I feel the plight of WvW Mesmers because this set up is without question less effective with increasing number of opponents.

I have heard that WvW Mesmers feel like utility bots, or veil bots, or what have you. So my question is: why is this necessarily a bad thing? It sounds like a role to me, so I do not think I understand the situation fully. I would appreciate any clarification that could be offered as I feel truly ignorant. Although glamours do not wreck folks like they used to, they still seem amazingly useful, particularly in a WvW setting. Is it more a case of Mesmers have a use/role/function in WvW, but its just a matter that most WvW Mesmers would rather be doing something else?

If you like lockdown why completely give it up? I have not played in a few months due to different priorities, but the last time I was playing I was using an interrupt/condi burst hybrid. I had great fun with it and found it to be effective enough for my needs.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQNAW7alknpUt1oxMNcrNiY6RwhcCHKFXX2VSBudhA-TsAAzCpIKSVkrITRyisFNqY9xuCA

If other runes have been brought to a similar level of power/potential it would be a good idea to show the community this by revealing some of these additional changes. If it is true then some fears should be alleviated, if not then they should be even more prepared to make appropriate adjustments at the drop of a hat.

Which do we know? The only other two I can recall from the ready ups are Traveler, Lyssa, and Monk, none of which appear to be quite as defining as Perplexity.

Random power ups, perhaps like those from the bazaar of the four winds release, I enjoyed that.

I don’t like that answer either because it feels defeatist. Rather than opt for hoping for buffs, however, I think you’ll feel better by being more proactive and trying to improve your own gameplay and find a role/build that you can make work for you. I’m not saying they don’t need buffs or other professions don’t need nerfs; I’m not interested in that. For what it is worth I’m just saying you are probably going to have more fun working at it if you take a problem solving approach rather than ‘I fail’, ‘this profession is flawed’, ‘opponent is op’.

So, let’s brainstorm. What are you having problems with specifically/what are you trying to do that you aren’t succeeding at? Specifics are key here because that is how we get better: incrementally.

To some extent, rerolling is actually a really good answer. Reroll to learn other professions, their builds, how they are played, etc. I don’t just mean sign on to one and check out their traits, I mean actually play them until you feel reasonably competent. This will dramatically increase your performance as you will know what to look for and the best ways to counter if and when possible. But reroll until a profession is buffed? Nah, you could be waiting a real long time. Play the profession that you enjoy.

However, with profession choice also comes an understanding of how they fit into the current meta and what that means for build choice and role, as well as the inherent limitations of the profession in general due to how it operates. Are you trying to get your ele to do something it just cannot do? I’m of the camp that the ele is limited to a primarily defensive roamer, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they will always be limited to this role in the long run due to their mechanical limitations.

Hey there Chopps. I know you are taking the changes pretty rough and I am sorry for that. My suggestion is to go back into sPvP (hotjoin, soloqueue, teamqueue, whatever it is you prefer) and find a way to make it work if Spirits is the build you really, really like.

On first glance it seems the changes have put Spirits inline with other utility summons for other professions and, by consequence, made the build require more thought and skill. This is not to say that the build is dead, however, but it will likely have a different feel and flow to it.

Don’t let the changes, or other players, get you down. If Spirits is the build you love then go in and play Spirits; learn how to adjust to the changes. If after putting in sufficient experience playing with it you feel the changes have destroyed the Spirit utilities, then come back with evidence and suggestions.

Phaeton.9582:

There are some great players NA

The whole team mind set and approach towards competitive pvp is wrong there though. Anyone who’s played in both regions will know what I mean.

I have not played in both regions, but I definitely suspected different in-game cultures for the two regions would have some sort of major effect. Would you mind explaining what this difference is exactly?

I’m not looking to bait you into an argument, I just have no idea what the actual difference is and am genuinely curious. Either way, thanks for the insight!

Arheundel.6451:

The ele has after all 20 skills akittens disposal so it’s logical to have an attunement recharge reduction trait in each attunement, what we need now is an additional effect to each one of them

You are absolutely correct. I think I got caught up in the moment.

I’m all for increasing rewards (items, rank, glory, etc) for solo queue and team queue to make them more comparable to hotjoins; but, I do not think glory rewards for hotjoin should be lowered, made contingent on winning, or other changes unless other aspects were changed.

Rewards are already considered bad enough based on a general consensus of the forums, making it worse for hotjoiners to get rewarded is only going to make it worse for those players. If you want impetus for players to go into solo and team queues then ADD rewards to them as opposed to taking rewards away from hotjoin.

IF you were to make rewards contingent on winning a hotjoin and/or not zerging then the ability to join whichever team you want from observer mode needs to be removed … or some other method of randomization introduced to disallow hotjoin team stacking. Hotjoin team stacking has already got to be a huge detraction from pvping for new folks coming in trying to learn … every one expects to lose when they are first learning, but being completely demolished is another matter altogether.

I think there may be multiple ways to go about solving some of the problems. Perhaps the Arcane trait tree can be largely left alone IF each attunement was a bit more stand alone in each weapon set. I don’t mean changing any of the skills drastically, but boosting certain aspects or adding another aspect … like an evade on fire dagger 3, a heal/water field on water focus 4 or 5, longer duration on auras, etc. Not to mention, as was stated previously, a proper damage increase to autoattacks.

If evasive arcana were incorporated into each trait line, an alternative 30 point arcane talent could easily be a passive bonus to stats based on your current attunement in sort of the same vein as the 10 point arcane boon trait, or vice versa. Currently the 5 point traits don’t seem to play all that much of a factor except for water and arcane.

Additionally, other professions get a single trait for reducing 50% of their weapon cooldowns (usually with an additional effect) while an ele requires a single trait for 25% of their weapon cooldowns (with no additional effect).

Personally, I like the burst healing aspect of the ele and I don’t think base health should change. Healing can be increased by boosting the heals we already have available (our signet is stupidily sad compared to warriors, but that is a different story). Also, water skill heals can have their base heal boosted and healing trait scaling reduced to compensate.

Would you mind defining “gimmicky builds”? It just seems that this kind of terminology is open to a wide variety of interpretation. I mean, most builds that “work” have a sort-of theme about them and some folks might call any kind of theme a sort-of “gimmick”. However, I do not think this is what you mean and I just wanted to try and understand your point of view.

TheKidHenry.5732:

Its great to see another mesmer playing with interrupts! I’m sure you saw that our builds are very similar. On the note of Chaotic Interruption, I love the trait… especially with a sigil of battle, I’m usually between 10 and 20 stacks of might at all times! I just weigh that against staff cooldowns, but usually I’ll trait for phantasms anyway so its not too bad. I’ll usually build slightly more toughness, definitely runes of the undead as opposed to getting some condition duration on there with runes to make up for it. Which do you think is more viable?

I think you might be confusing Bountiful Interruption with Chaotic Interruption, but I could be misreading you. Chaotic Interruption is the 30 point trait that immobilizes your target and applies blind, cripple, or chill on a successful interrupt. I have not been able to give up reduced staff cool downs for Bountiful Interruption, but I may have to give it a shot based on your suggestion.

I think in this case the rune selection is really just a matter of personal preference and play style. I don’t think you could go wrong by selecting undead for a condi build at all. I am actually using Lyssa more so for the additional precision and the 6 rune benefit; the additional condi duration is really just a side benefit. For me, I like being able to use Mass Invisibility as a full reset and I feel that the 6 rune benefit from Lyssa allows this.

The additional toughness from undead would certainly help with surviving an onslaught of burst whereas being able to drop all condis from Lyssa would help against opposing condis, in addition to Arcane Thievery. I find Illusionary Retreat, Illusionary Counter, and Chaos Armor to be sufficient for surviving burst in addition to the interrupt play style and standard Mesmer fare (Distortion, Blink, etc.).

Since this is such an awesome discussion, and I love me some condi-control Mesmer action, I thought I’d throw my build into the mix as well.

The build I’ve been running is also focused on interruption and conditions: 0/15/30/0/25.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAraWlwzipXTTjGb9IhpHEH5CHNjrn9yHwNA-TkAAzEFpKyVkpIZR2iGEsqA

I do not feel as though I ever have a problem pumping out enough clones, particularly with 25 in Illusions and reduced staff cool downs. In a team environment it is pretty selfish aside from tossing around a few boons, but the primary focus is on control and condi bursting. The key is really making sure to interrupt the important skills and shut down the opponent while pistol phantasm loads up bleeds, etc. Interrupting the right opponent at the right time is really the primary group support the build offers. Arcane Thievery is just an additional emphasis on the build’s goal, allowing for stability stripping or additional condition pressure. With the long cast times of Necromancers I find it does really well against them.

Since it IS an interrupt hybrid, I find Mantra of Distraction a complete necessity for the on demand daze. Chaos Storm and Magic Bullet are used more as control options, while the Mantra really puts the shutdown icing on the cake.

Pistol here serves a duel purpose, bleed stacking and the interrupt. I do not know how the community feels about Chaotic Interruption, but in this build I have had great success with it … it allows that little extra bit of control that helps land those phantasm bleeds or buys your team that brief moment to capitalize on an incapacitated opponent that is dazed/interrupted and immobilized.

But, this IS a condi/interrupt hybrid; I wouldn’t suggest it if you just want to go full out condi damage or do not like the interrupt play style.

I really like these ideas. The only one I am not sold on is TPvP supported Arenas. I like the addition of 10v10 capture the flag and 2v2 or 3v3 Arenas, but as long as professions are balanced around a core pvp mode of conquest I am uncertain as to whether any additional modes should be emphasized beyond for the pure enjoyment of it/privately hosted tournaments.

I really like this because it reverts conquest to the 5v5 it is balanced for and yet you can still get all your zerg in via 10v10 capture the flag. Even with a much bigger map you could still obtain that “protection of the horde” feel. When you want to practice more specific skill sets you have dueling and arena options; which in the end help to hone your skills for conquest. Conquest still has that primary sPvP mode feel to it, but these other options open up a world of possibilities to cater to additional potential pvpers.

I do not think “bad” is probably the best descriptor, but I give you that it is a difficult one not to use. At first glance the community (on the sPvP forums specifically) comes across as very, very negative. Although complaining and whining are ubiquitous, I do not think that is the root of the problem. I believe the problem is more so in how it is carried out. Name calling, personal attacks, and cynicism are rampant. Not only is this directed at the developers, but also at one another.

Whining and complaining are not the problem, it is the behavior many use to carry it out. I understand that folks really care about the game, want it to succeed, and want it to meet their personal views of what will make it good, but I fail to see how that is an adequate excuse for refusing to act more mature. Nor is frustration with one another and the developers a valid excuse.

Could you imagine how much more inviting the game would be to those who stop by the forums and see objective, reasoned debate and disagreement rather than name calling, personal attacks, and cynicism? Some people behave rationally and their posts are little stars in the darkness, but it takes a whole community to define itself.

I think the reason Necromancers are suddenly viewed as “OP” is primarily because the last patch shook up the meta. We all knew going in that the Necromancers were going to be buffed in some capacity and many non-Necromancers were anticipating this; they made a profession switch to reap the benefits of playing a profession generally rarely encountered previously … fotm style player driven self fulfilling prophecy.

As far as balance goes, both sides speak the truth … there is a great deal of sudden complaining about what was hardly impacted by the patch, and yet there have been tweaks that have elevated the profession above its prior capacity.

I personally think the meta still needs some time to settle as people research and implement counters. In my experience thus far, Necromancers are taken down not by superior condition cleanse (that is fighting a losing battle … and based on the offense priority of the game rightly so) but by maintaining superior ranged damage or cc locking/controlling the Necromancer … especially with coordinated spikes. The long cast times of Necromancer abilities just beg for interruption counters.

I do not play a thief, though I have given them a try to see what they are all about (traits, weapons, builds, etc.). I do not think spamming was a design flaw so much as part of the whole idea to begin with … use whatever ability you have that is most optimal at that time, and if that includes spamming one ability then go on and spam it. I agree that it can most certainly be annoying/frustrating/rage-provoking to deal with. However, I think this was intentional and should not be hampered … it is just part and parcel of the profession.

I enjoyed the video and I like the idea behind it. I think it could have used more general polish, but I imagine that comes with time and practice. I think you have a good idea for all the reasons already stated and I hope you do not get discouraged.

As for the privacy issues … I get it. However, I cannot also help but feel they are a little bunk. With observer mode you get more information than you did before, certainly, but I fail to see how this is so drastically different than those folks who would (still do?) post videos of themselves wrecking players who are obviously learning. They do not go out of their way to hide their opponents names. Many of those players that get wrecked may feel anger and frustration for being used this way without their prior consent … and yet there has never been outrage against these types of video makers. What gives?

I’m not here to complain about thieves. I am here to say that your argument doesn’t make much sense. Don’t get me wrong, I know exactly where you are coming from … I dislike seemingly random nerfs and overnerfing as much as the next player, most especially when it appears to be solely done due to folks who complain on official forums.

However, consider that perhaps the complainers are correct and that the damage is too high. You are right, people will want to play the most effective build for the least amount of effort and so a mass migration of thieves will move on to the condition build. Regardless of complaints, if this too is over tuned then it will also get adjusted until it falls appropriately into the dev’s designs. The complainers will complain, but Anet has made it clear that changes are based on hard evidence available to them regardless.

Do you see where I’m going with this? The OP comes across as spiteful rather than contributing something helpful. Isn’t that just as bad?

If they were to somehow give points to those that simply stay on points to defend them they should split those points between all those present. If only 5 points are given every 30 sec, those 5 points should be randomly split as evenly as possible to all those present.

If they were to promote wins then they would be doing two things: putting a great deal of focus on actually winning and promoting point defense. In hotjoin the idea is to get in and have fun with a bit of reckless abandon, it isn’t supposed to be overly stressful. Losing is never much fun, but if in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t matter much because you still get about the same reward then it isn’t worrisome. Obviously this is not the case with tournaments where winning is the whole point.

If you promote point defense you dramatically increase the number of players that build defensively and you will see tanky types become the norm. Suddenly now no-one can do enough damage to kill one another and it becomes a big stalemate … I cannot imagine such an outcome will have any sense of progression and instead be a lot of frustration.

I’m not saying a happy medium cannot be reached, I’m just saying it is important to consider what exactly is being asked for overall.

Wow, just wow. This is awesome, I love looking at hard data like this. Thank you so much for putting this together and sharing it with the community; you have my eternal gratitude.

Is the vertical axis on the right hand chart the same as on the left hand chart (percentage of total at that level)?

Were you able to remove multiples of the same player/character combination?

If you were able to record this kind of information, how did you handle same player but with different characters?

From what I understand from reading various threads and posts on here it is a number of things. I think it all comes down to whether or not people feel like they have a chance:

-Stealth drives many folks up the wall. High burst builds coupled with stealth is a lot of damage with a lot of defense. This is primarily a case with thieves and mesmers for obvious reasons. If a person manages to survive the burst and retaliate effectively, the thief or mesmer can often times just vanish and leave the battle altogether. People do not like that these two professions do not necessarily have to commit to a fight once they engage in one and fail to see driving the thief or mesmer off as a victory.

-Using cc in sequence for long duration control while you kill the opponent is undoubtedly something that is also frustrating to many players, but it isn’t burst in the same regard. People do not care about how many key strokes, per say, but by how long it takes. If they get jumped and do not have their cooldowns up, die in 2-3 seconds, then they feel powerless. If a cc queen does the same thing the player has more time to consider what is going on and a greater window of opportunity for their cooldowns to come up or other players to intervene. This window may not be effectively very large depending on the builds being used, but in many cases it is long enough to give people a greater feeling of control … even if it is only illusionary.

-Raw probability. Jump into hot join and there is a good chance you will see a surplus of thieves in regards to other professions. As far as I can tell, hot join is played over free/payed tournies from a strict number of users point of view. If more people play hot join, and hot join is made up significantly by thieves, then you should expect more complaints regarding thief abilities. I’ve played hot join games where there were no thieves to be found, but that is a rare case. It is true that you can come across games where any profession is dominating in population, but I am not talking about what is possible in hot join composition, only what is more common.

I’m not defending, advocating, or crying. This is just how I understand the sentiment you are referring to.

I largely agree with Rhydian. I think most of us agree that getting points for what Rhydian described would be disastrous to sPvP. In all honesty, the OP does not make this distinction … actually, they mention wanting glory points without tagging or assisting directly in kills, which suggests they are promoting exactly what Rhydian described.

Support roles in GW2 are combat oriented; if you are assisting solely by casting heals, boons, and boon removals, then in most cases you are not contributing in a significant way to the outcome of the skirmish (the exception might be when you are up against an epidemic, condi dmg necro). You also need to be contributing directly to the team’s damage output.

I hate the notion of the zerg that happens in almost every 8v8 too, but what is the alternative? This is a very delicate balancing act … if you give points to defenders then there is a chance that the hotjoin meta changes to promote point holding and denial. Suddenly games become stagnant and lack any forward momentum because people will hit a defended node and bounce off. Bunker builds will then become the norm and no one will die. I’ve seen this in many games already without points being awarded for bunking … unless you count the match win bonus.

I do not think the current point awards are perfect at all, I’m just saying we need to be careful what we wish for. If I had to choose I would promote the zerg, even though I hate it, because at least that way you get the feeling that something is actually happening and you are getting somewhere.