Guild Wars 2

Start killing the cat. They’re much more fragile than the smokescale or bristleback.

Xenesis.6389:

Oh right they just followed what the community threw at them and made the elite specs overpowered, they have no control over balance because of the players.

Asking for buffs doesn’t automatically mean asking to be overpowered.

Listened to their player base too well, LOL thanks for the laugh.

You’re putting words in my mouth, and over simplifying the argument to serve your point (which you still haven’t made btw).

It is most certainly possible to listen to the community too well, as the players aren’t all-knowing about what balance decisions need to be made. This was a case of the players getting their way at too many junctions. Anet has control, I never said they don’t lol. They just didn’t exercise it very well with the release of the elite specs (this is where apharma’s point comes in, Anet did not reconcile their goals with the players’).

When did I imply the process was automatic btw?

It’s so ironic that you were just commended for your maturity in discussion only to immediately reply with… that drivel lol.

Xenesis.6389:

They wanted them fixed not overpowered, a couple specs were lackluster compared to the others. Everyone wants the spec they play to be competitive with every other one, of course there’s the ones that want it to destroy everyone else, but those are the crazy outliners that don’t care about anything but themselves getting easy wins.

Anet also said they would keep them in line with the older specs, and they sure as hell didn’t.

Yes we are talking about the same patch, the one that took the game down the path in ruining combat balance.

I literally addressed all of this in my response. Of course the players thought they were fixing their classes, but in many cases they were misguided. It led to what we have today. Arenanet listened to their playerbase a little too well when Elite Specs were being introduced.

At this point you’re just belligerently agreeing with people. It’s not a huge jump in logic to realize that people didn’t deliberately make their class op, but that was essentially the end result. Come to think of it I’m not sure where you even disagreed with the other poster when you started with “wait… wut.”

Xenesis.6389:

Roy G Biv.1625:

The July 2015 specialization change patch and the community asking for more over powered elite specs’ brought WvW roaming to where it is now.

Wait… wut?

Players were calling for new weapons and maybe a new class, I’m pretty sure the competitive community wouldn’t be calling for overpowered specs. In fact they were content that Anet said they would make the new elite specs on par with the old ones, to which they never have done.

The june 23rd 2015 patch, basically a pre-load of the re-balancing traits with the new elites and changes to conditions coming with the expansion, really messed up this game.

When the elite specs arrived I distinctly remember the community demanding buffs for some of them (tempest, dh, and more). The Tempest demo dev died to svanir/chieftain for pete’s sake. The concerns weren’t unfounded.

The community may not have wanted to make the specs OP but they did contribute to the Elite Specs no longer being side-grades as advertised.

Also I’m fairly certain you two are talking about the same patch.

Some of the listed changes are reasonable, but for S/F’s damage to be substantially increased I would also rework several of the instant casts.

Currently S/F already has decent 1v1 matchups even on a vanilla build. This is because it can simply outkite and slowly pressure out cooldowns until the ele is able to bait their enemy into a larger burst. Frankly the “Buff S/F” movement has become a bit of a kitten that might do more harm to ele than good in the long run. S/F is not the underdog kit everyone wants to make it out to be. It has the potential to be very very broken with the wrong buffs because of its reliance on instant (and therefore untelegraphed) pressure.

Also buffing magnetic wave is a non-negotiable no unless you nerf other focus skills. It’s currently a very effective and loaded skill.

Congrats, man! Improvement is what leagues are all about. Glad you’re getting the most out of the system.

Appreciate the write up, but wanted to say that I’m pretty sure Alkore ran staff/longbow for vermillion in proleague LAN. This is in reply to your saying it’s never been used in top tier organized play.

In fairness, this was also when search and rescue was unnerfed. Vermillion was also in the minority running this iirc during season 2 I believe.

Ele died for me and many others right about when HoT dropped. It’s viable, just pretty mind numbing as well.

Shadow.1345:

Saiyan.1704:

Here’s my list in terms of class unhappiness in PvP according to forum complaints.
Top is worse
1. Ele
2. Thief

That ends my list. Anyone else uncontent with their class? Who should be 3rd & 4th picks?

Thief and Ele mains are always unhappy with every balance pach.

It’s kinda hard to be thrilled about being pigeonholed into cleric bunker.

Shadowflare.2759:

BigEvs.6971:

Tempest is the worst thing to happen to the Elementalist in years. Its nerfing was a mercy-killing imo, so I’m happy about that I guess.

They whacked both tempest and base ele with the nerfbat when they should have just took power away from tempest and gave it to base ele.

The collateral damage to vanilla ele kinda sucks, but tbh vanilla ele was already bad. It felt bad before the nerf and it feels about the same, or at least not worse enough for me to feel the difference. It’s hard for it to get much worse.

Tempest being nerfed IS the best chance for power to get transferred to vanilla ele. We don’t know if anet simply needed a beat to see where exactly the nerfs would put ele/tempest on the spectrum of viability.

Xillllix.3485:

BigEvs.6971:

Tempest is the worst thing to happen to the Elementalist in years. Its nerfing was a mercy-killing imo, so I’m happy about that I guess.

Yes I guess that’s one positive way to look at it. It’s just sad to think about the wasted potential of this game. They had everything they need to make something remarkable for a competitive mmo.

Deciding to not add a GvG mode was probably the moment where they took the wrong turn.

I’m hoping anet just realized that there weren’t many obvious ways to buff ele’s weak points without strengthening bunker ele further. The scepter buffs have clearly been super safe half-measure changes for example. I think ele needed to be kinda demolished, and that includes the nice things we had like 33% cooldown reduction traits.

Tempest was always a dead-end to me in terms of fun. Even the non-bunker builds were, for the most part, just (usually air) overload spam builds or some other gimmick. I think most people who are frustrated with the tempest nerfs are specifically frustrated at ele’s best chance at viability being snuffed out. Still, this could be a sign for something different and (hopefully) more fun to come in the future.

Tempest is the worst thing to happen to the Elementalist in years. Its nerfing was a mercy-killing imo, so I’m happy about that I guess.

I’ve known about this general interaction for awhile but didn’t even think about chrono block. That’s incredibly frustrating. I’m starting to wonder if tempest defense and lightning rod’s lack of synergy is deliberate. The bug is just too blatant to have been left alone otherwise.

In any case, thanks for the heads up.

So from what I know, D/D is simply more suited to sustain-y builds that have some healing power and other innate defensive statistics.

On the other hand, offhand focus is generally better suited for squishier, zerker builds because of the invulns and projectile hate. A zerker spec doesn’t need any toughness, vitality, or healing power to take the same advantage of a 4 sec invuln that a tankier spec would. An invuln is an invuln, a reflect is a reflect. This is why S/D isn’t has highly favored as S/F for fresh air zerker builds these days (not saying it can’t be used).

So yeah, I guess TL;DR:

If you’re tankier, likely go D/D
If you’re zerker, you’ll take better advantage of offhand focus than a tankier spec would.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear, if I’m spreading misinformation, or if my info was simply redundant.

Pretty much what Keksmuffin said.

As an average joe level guardian, I really appreciate Scepter. It allows me to keep pressure on my enemies while I back out of melee for some breathing room during a teamfight.

I mean, the skill is bad but Scepter itself isn’t that great in PvP overall IMO.

Reducing the aftercast was a step in the right direction. Casting this skill on a downed body while you don’t have swaps to other attunements available is the best way to use this. The skill may suck, but no opponent wants to sit and get hit by it anyway. Think of it as cheap area denial.

Worst case scenario:
Your opponent moves away. For a cheap CD you made your opponent move.

Best case:
Opponent eats damage for cheap CD and possible proc of Fresh Air

Either way with the aftercast reduced you can move on to other skills quicker now.

The problem for me isn’t the uplevels as much as it is the people who were clearly making their way to a zerg or something and just didn’t care about your desire to fight (the guys who sat still for you to kill them). Just not worth putting in the vid IMO.

Nothing against your skill or anything, I can’t judge that (in great part because this video just didn’t show me much about your proficiency with this build). Try to look for better footage, draw from a week’s play as opposed to a day, etc.

I personally think Arenanet is right to use GW1 GvG to inspire Stronghold. GW1 was a solid game and it only make sense to take a few cues from it (which I believe this game has been in need of for a long time despite how much I love GW2). We will just have to wait and see.

Also, why the splitting of hairs over the legitimacy of guilds based on SIZE of all things?

I tried these runes.
Fluctuated between 0/2/0/6/6 (Group Fury+Swiftness), 0/0/2/6/6 (Group Protection), and 0/2/2/6/4 (Both group buffs at the cost of Evasive Arcana).
I ran this in WvW with D/D and it was… okay. I think I had around 7 seconds of Frost Aura which was cool. I dropped the experiment after a few hours (Kept the armor though).
I really wanted to try Radiance Runes in sPvP because I believe Aura sharing is stronger there than in zergs (and I could never get a havoc group going in WvW).
If anyone used these runes to better effect, let us know.

Just wanted to pop in and say a few things from the view of a less-than-expert player.
Ele burst is not very hard to time evades or blinds or blocks for. Burning Speed, for example, is a large portion of a D/D Ele’s damage and is one of the most telegraphed skills in the game.
Furthermore, OP’s request is already becoming a bit of a reality with skills like Corrupt Boon having a slightly increased cast time.

I’d use other amulets if they didn’t seem so underwhelming on paper.

Don’t nerf sigils. You’re gonna hurt everyone.
Don’t nerf acrobatics, the entire trait line should not pay for one spec that isn’t even OP.
Don’t nerf trickery, you will hurt non-S/D thieves more.
If you must nerf anything, let it be Flank Strike/Larc Strike. Increase initiative cost by like one and you will have less evade spamming. Otherwise? Use weakness on the thief and hurt their evades.
50% nerf, 50% Learn-to-Counterplay.

Im Mudbone.1437:

runeblade.7514:

Dusty Moon.4382:

runeblade.7514:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Gele.2048:

reading this made me hate some of the gw 2 comminity WHY do u have SO much against DUELING itS Fun if u have something against it DONT PLAY IT DONT DUEL let us enjoy dueling kitten

AS A.NET has said in the past, this game is not balanced for 1 vs. 1 and it is especially NOT balanced wihile using PvE items. The only way to balance the whole game is to have PvP – which duleing is BTW, in PvP and PvE by itself.

from GW2 WIKI

“Player versus Player
Primary article: Player versus Player Is there any type of Open World PvP?
No, there is no open world PvP of any kind, this includes dueling. If you wish to fight against a player, you must do so in custom arenas. If you wish to participate in large scale battles against other servers, then World versus World would be the closest thing to open world PvP.
What types of PvP will be available?
Currently, the game includes two types:

1. World versus World — huge, ongoing battles in the Mists between uneven groups of players of different levels.
2. Structured PvP has two major types: tournament play, similar to guild battles in Guild Wars — this pits two evenly matched teams against each other; and pick-up play where individual players or groups can pick games to join based on available space, map and other settings.¹¹

In addition, certain activities are also considered PvP, e.g. bar brawling and snowball fights."

This should put an end to this thread. No to dueling in PvE areas.

For a very specific quote, you must have a link somewhere.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions

It is in the FAQ – how hard is it to find it.

This ancient text should stop dueling because…?

LOOK, you asked for his proof, he gave it and now you attack the makers for not making a new posting saying the same thing with a current date(because nothing will change in that wiki post) that you call ancient. GEEZ, the makers themselves could come here and sa uniquvically that it’s not going to happen and you guys would still want proof. -LOL

I understand you were joking in that last sentence but you’re wrong. The fact is, dueling has never been completely ruled out (if anyone finds an official statement that contradicts me please let me know so I can minimize my idiocy). Go check out the http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP page.

“Currently, dueling other players in the world has not been implemented but it has been mentioned several times as possible upcoming feature.”

If Arenanet said “We will never implement/have no plans to implement dueling.” I’d shut up.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

runeblade.7514:

Dusty Moon.4382:

runeblade.7514:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Gele.2048:

reading this made me hate some of the gw 2 comminity WHY do u have SO much against DUELING itS Fun if u have something against it DONT PLAY IT DONT DUEL let us enjoy dueling kitten

AS A.NET has said in the past, this game is not balanced for 1 vs. 1 and it is especially NOT balanced wihile using PvE items. The only way to balance the whole game is to have PvP – which duleing is BTW, in PvP and PvE by itself.

from GW2 WIKI

“Player versus Player
Primary article: Player versus Player Is there any type of Open World PvP?
No, there is no open world PvP of any kind, this includes dueling. If you wish to fight against a player, you must do so in custom arenas. If you wish to participate in large scale battles against other servers, then World versus World would be the closest thing to open world PvP.
What types of PvP will be available?
Currently, the game includes two types:

1. World versus World — huge, ongoing battles in the Mists between uneven groups of players of different levels.
2. Structured PvP has two major types: tournament play, similar to guild battles in Guild Wars — this pits two evenly matched teams against each other; and pick-up play where individual players or groups can pick games to join based on available space, map and other settings.¹¹

In addition, certain activities are also considered PvP, e.g. bar brawling and snowball fights."

This should put an end to this thread. No to dueling in PvE areas.

For a very specific quote, you must have a link somewhere.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions

It is in the FAQ – how hard is it to find it.

This ancient text should stop dueling because…?

Because, at this time, the owners of this intellectual property have said No. You all are repeatedly asking an answered question.

I’m missing the part where the FAQ’s said dueling will never exist. All this said is dueling does not currently exist. So… because something does not currently exist that means it should never? Do Guild Halls fall under this category?

If anything, the “owners of this intellectual property” have already expressed an interest in implementing dueling, “Currently, dueling other players in the world has not been implemented but it has been mentioned several times as possible upcoming feature.” This is from http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP

Not saying Arenanet is currently in support of dueling, but until they say anything else (or if anyone could find a more recent statement on the implementation of dueling that’d be great) we can’t 100% tell either way.

Sorry to bump this argument further, but saying that the FAQ’s prove Arenanet has already answered “No” to the possibility of dueling is incorrect.

Brother Grimm.5176:

BigEvs.6971:

Neural.1824:

-1. Game is doing just fine without it, and no-one yet has proven that even a barely passable majority have any interest in it.

Keep that “logic” out of these forums. No one can prove that the majority of players are for/against dueling without using anecdotal evidence.

Such terrible overreacting in these dueling threads.

Not sure your “logic” about what to keep out of the forums is in anyway needed either.

The overreaction is due to continual posting (over and over) of the same ideas by the same basic segment of the player base. I’d also say he is quite correct that a vast majority of player do NOT want this type of option in Open World zones and his evidence IS the vast majority of negative reactions to these types of threads (tho assuming the forum goers are representative of the overall playerbase is far from accurate). There is already 2 game modes that allow for PvP and the majority of those that are PvE only players are NOT interested in competitive 1v1 gameplay in the least.

Do you have numbers for your claims that the majority of the playerbase is against dueling? No. You don’t, and you will probably never be able to get them. You even admit that the forums are not an accurate representation for player opinions. I’m not saying the majority supports dueling, I’m just saying that it’s pointless to even bring up and highlights how quick people are to ignore any of the acceptable ways dueling could be implemented in this game. I’m not here to take away your PvE. Put me in the mists to duel, but don’t make me pay gold/rl money to do so and don’t make me coordinate server transfers to duel in the Obsidian Sanctum. That’s all I ask. I just want to test some stuff out.

Neural.1824:

-1. Game is doing just fine without it, and no-one yet has proven that even a barely passable majority have any interest in it.

Keep that “logic” out of these forums. No one can prove that the majority of players are for/against dueling without using anecdotal evidence.

Such terrible overreacting in these dueling threads.

MSFone.3026:

Dusty Moon.4382:

If you think 2 pnts here – 3 pnts there actually mean something you are fooling yourself. For power – each pnt increase is one pnt in dmg – say your all your armor is a 10 pnt increase 1890 vs 1900 is not much. That is a 0.5% increase in damage.

Really, I guess math isn’t your strong point at all is it? That is why Celestial armor is not wanted that much – it is too much of a compromise over other armors, especially in PvE. In WvWvW, I prefer PTV armor.

Dude look at what you have typed: Above you say the difference is small so celestial is basically ascended gear, and now you are saying the difference makes people not want it? What is your point? Is it basically ascended, which is good and makes people want it, or is it a crappy compromise so nobody wants it? Or do you just not have a point and are typing confused nonsense instead of just being straight about it: You like to grind and so other people should too.

I pointed out the stat difference between ascended and exotic is basically the same as all other sets, so your first point doesn’t hold water.

Celestial armor is wanted a lot by a plenty of people. It’s a great set for certain ele builds, and I know I can get a stat allotment that suits my build better with celestial than without it, so I want it. I use a celestial amulet in sPvP and it rules; I’d like to do the same in WvW. I didn’t ask for your silly advice about PVT armor (without even mentioning class and build, dur).

As I said you’re pretty much just typing stuff to argue that it should be gated because you ground it out so everyone one else should grind too. But you’re bumping the thread, which is what I want, so go ahead keep typing nonsense. You can see most other people think it’s reasonable to have a standard stat allotment in sPvP readily available in exotic form. Even if they just added it to karma at a temple or WvW badges that would be better.

You sir are my hero. Worded what I had to say like I could not.

I’ve decided to bite the bullet and craft a set. Certainly not happy but I won’t be bitter if the stat is easier to acquire AFTER I craft it. Anet will probably make Celestial tradable once I craft the set (with my luck), but I’m willing to make the sacrifice for the good of the players.

I want to believe!!!!

Seriously though, what this guy said.

Yes, I agree. Please make this armor trade-able.

IMO, this kind of time-gated grind should be reserved for Ascended (and Legendary) Gear ONLY.

Chaba.5410:

Gbok, it is the same, not different. There is no stopping a grenade toss, grenade barrage, or the 10x hits of ft 1.

I also play ranger, and have nearly met my demise barraging zergs using retaliation. He means that when you have channeled barrage it attacks several times over the course of several seconds. The damage and retal from grenades all occur at once, while the barrage occurs over many seconds. The difference here is that the ranger likely realized that what they did was a mistake by the first volley of arrows, but there is literally no way to stop the rest of them if they’ve channeled the skill. The difference is slim, but whereas an engineer can throw one volley of grenades and stop, and ranger must sit there and hope their heal is off CD.
It’s simply the difference between receiving retal all at once from a mistake or being unable to stop attacking and receiving retal in pulses long after you realized you should stop attacking.
The outcomes are generally the same, but saying that the actions are the same is not totally correct.

RyuDragnier.9476:

BigEvs.6971:

Idk if this was already suggested, but what if a player could only receive retaliation damage from one source (the most powerful one) at any time? No ICD.

As someone who spends a majority of my time on Guardian using the Healway build, the main reason I use retal is for small fights. I personally don’t care about Retaliation in a large group setting. I was always focused more on Protection, Stability, Regen, and cleansing conditions via Pure of Voice. Heck, half the reason I zerg is to gain Bloodlust Stacks so I have a bit more power for roaming.

Restricting retal to one (and again, the most powerful) source as opposed to installing an ICD would not hurt me in a small group setting where I am already at a disadvantage to Engineers. I like fighting Engineers as they are a great challenge, but retal is one of the few sources of damage I have. It allows me to chip away at my opponent while I consolidate what few boosts to damage I possess (Fury from SY, Might, etc.).

That’s my perspective on this retal debate. Go ahead and reign in its viability in zergfests, but I would like to keep it useful in small group encounters.

Sorry if what I said has already been stated, and I am also sorry if my perspective is off-base or downright idiotic. Thanks for your time

This is part of the reason why I suggested a 33% flat damage return across the board on this skill. It won’t completely wreck people who are using multihit skills (and who have low power), and will badly damage anybody trying to burst. Both of which are the opposite of what’s going on now, it overly damages people who do a lot of hits fast with little power, while doing nothing to people who burst with a single attack. In other words, I want them to be changing it into a well-balanced boon.

I see the merit in this idea, but people who pack their damage into a smaller amount of attacks are already being mitigated by the Guardian’s ability to pump out blinds and blocks indefinitely. I think I might be misunderstanding you

Idk if this was already suggested, but what if a player could only receive retaliation damage from one source (the most powerful one) at any time? No ICD.

As someone who spends a majority of my time on Guardian using the Healway build, the main reason I use retal is for small fights. I personally don’t care about Retaliation in a large group setting. I was always focused more on Protection, Stability, Regen, and cleansing conditions via Pure of Voice. Heck, half the reason I zerg is to gain Bloodlust Stacks so I have a bit more power for roaming.

Restricting retal to one (and again, the most powerful) source as opposed to installing an ICD would not hurt me in a small group setting where I am already at a disadvantage to Engineers. I like fighting Engineers as they are a great challenge, but retal is one of the few sources of damage I have. It allows me to chip away at my opponent while I consolidate what few boosts to damage I possess (Fury from SY, Might, etc.).

That’s my perspective on this retal debate. Go ahead and reign in its viability in zergfests, but I would like to keep it useful in small group encounters.

Sorry if what I said has already been stated, and I am also sorry if my perspective is off-base or downright idiotic. Thanks for your time

I ran AH for a long time thinking it was the end all be all spec, but Healway has worked much better for me.

Longer boons means better support for a group, and I have no more trouble surviving in a Zerg with Healway than I do with AH. The best part for me was seeing my performance stay consistent when running in a Zerg, small group, or solo.

I can out-heal most damage, block/blind against spikes, and take nearly any enemy down with attrition. 2v1? No problem with Healway!

Cazio.2137:

Vayne.8563:

Cazio.2137:

Vayne.8563:

Except that achievement points, unlike gear grind, don’t provide enough of an in game advantage so that someone who can’t do the content can’t play the game. That’s the big difference between the gear grind in WoW and what we have here.

I have people in my Guild who’ve come back from a six month break and they just jump right in and start running dungeons with us, including the newest dungeons.

Try that in other MMOs.

The reason they are coming back from a six month break is due to the boredom GW2 has in the first place once you reach max level…

Because you know these people personally and you know that they were bored (as opposed to sick or busy with life, or having internet problems, or focusing on school).

You are correct, I’m sorry. I shouldn’t have assumed they were part of the mass exodus that too place after release.

That happens in most if not all MMO’s. What GW2 has done is made sure the game is playable when/if they come back, even if for a few minutes to just test the water.

Everything? Well, I guess I never have to worry about death from falling ever again!

But OP… Think these things through! If you’re getting hit for 5k damage per second you might last 4-5 seconds under your system. Still pretty close to instant death, and just as inescapable as the normal system since CC will still keep you locked down. You better believe a team of 30 will hit you with a lot of it.

Some time ago you tell guardians that Altruistic Healing needs nerfing, and now this!

Not off to a good start, OP.

I’m not making excuses, I’m providing a valid argument for the players who duel for reasons other than the typical “For the Glory” mentality.

Please, I am trying to be respectful. I like TC and have considered transferring there before. All players, not just duelers, should be able to test their builds in another way besides transferring to the other server to fight in the Sanctum JP.

timidobserver.7925:

BigEvs.6971:

timidobserver.7925:

BigEvs.6971:

timidobserver.7925:

BigEvs.6971:

timidobserver.7925:

Clockradio.3257:

Because SPVP is about point capture, and you have to use SPVP gear.

WvW allows for far greater stat variety. Figure you need 30 vitality for a bit more survivability? Not a problem. In SPVP it is.

People duel in WvW because they don’t understand the point of WvW. Like the person I quoted who doesn’t realize that WvW is also about point capture.

The difference is that people are more likely to notice you failing to be productive in Spvp because of the limited people. Your whole team might then call them on how much they fail. Failing people in WvW aren’t usually noted due to the large amount of people that tend to fail in WvW.

That’s not why they duel…
They duel because sPvP stats can’t vary like they can in the open world/WvW.

Dueling is a positive experience as it teaches both parties about the strengths of their class.

I wouldn’t duel in WvW if I didn’t feel that I HAD to (same goes for the Obsidian Sanctum). Open world (PvE) dueling would solve this problem, but that is not a simple debate either.

I am a player that is usually out doing things that actually are productive toward the ultimate goal of winning the week’s matchup. To me, dueling people are useless wastes of queue space. Particularly if they jump in on reset night go run around and duel.

Again, most wouldn’t waste such space if they didn’t need to.

Honestly, my presence or lack of in a Zerg isn’t going to tip the scale in a fight. That, however, is ALSO a separate debate.

If open world dueling were implemented, I’d have no reason to duel in WvW. Even if I wanted to duel against someone from another server, they can GUEST to me!

I understand your attitude towards duelers, but you must understand that partaking in duels is educational as well as conducive to creating friendship when done right!

The (partially) forced location is not entirely the fault of the dueler!

Your presence won’t tip the anything no, but a bunch of people like you thinking the same thing does tip the scale which is typically the issue. It is more or less the difference between server tiering honestly. I play on TC, and this week we are seeing how effective it is when servers can rally just about everyone that is in WvW to work toward the goal of the match up. Once you see SoR in action, you’d realize how counterproductive your dueling really is.

Dueling in WvW is no more or less educational than dueling in Spvp. The only difference is how gear works, and that you are more likely to be noticed failing and called on failing in Spvp if you run around doing things not relating to the objective.

Also, I didn’t say that zerging is the only way to be productive. At least be dueling someone over a Yak or something.

Okay, in a general sense, you are right. WvW dueling and sPvP dueling are equal in terms of education.

But hear me out. It’s common knowledge that builds viable in sPvP may not be so in WvW, right?

Say I want to know how to take care of thieves in WvW where their roaming is most effective. IF I could duel a thief to know the ins and outs of his build as well as mine (both of which may not be possible to create in sPvP) I might stop complaining about how apparently OP they are. The only place I can achieve this right now is WvW.
This is also why I support open world dueling despite its risks to the community as a whole. If I can duel outside of WvW I will duel outside of WvW. sPvP is an entirely different playing field and just doesn’t cut it. Until a solution comes, duelers will go to WvW.

I do understand how effective it can be to rally up EVERYONE in a map for an objective, it’s quite epic actually respect for TC, btw, I am from FA.

Seems like you should be able to accomplish this in the EB Jumping Puzzle, which would allow you to duel and remain out of the queue space.

I am there now. And it’s being griefed. But it is a PvP area, so it’s expected.

What if I want to test a build with a friend, who is most likely on MY server?

timidobserver.7925:

BigEvs.6971:

timidobserver.7925:

BigEvs.6971:

timidobserver.7925:

Clockradio.3257:

Because SPVP is about point capture, and you have to use SPVP gear.

WvW allows for far greater stat variety. Figure you need 30 vitality for a bit more survivability? Not a problem. In SPVP it is.

People duel in WvW because they don’t understand the point of WvW. Like the person I quoted who doesn’t realize that WvW is also about point capture.

The difference is that people are more likely to notice you failing to be productive in Spvp because of the limited people. Your whole team might then call them on how much they fail. Failing people in WvW aren’t usually noted due to the large amount of people that tend to fail in WvW.

That’s not why they duel…
They duel because sPvP stats can’t vary like they can in the open world/WvW.

Dueling is a positive experience as it teaches both parties about the strengths of their class.

I wouldn’t duel in WvW if I didn’t feel that I HAD to (same goes for the Obsidian Sanctum). Open world (PvE) dueling would solve this problem, but that is not a simple debate either.

I am a player that is usually out doing things that actually are productive toward the ultimate goal of winning the week’s matchup. To me, dueling people are useless wastes of queue space. Particularly if they jump in on reset night go run around and duel.

Again, most wouldn’t waste such space if they didn’t need to.

Honestly, my presence or lack of in a Zerg isn’t going to tip the scale in a fight. That, however, is ALSO a separate debate.

If open world dueling were implemented, I’d have no reason to duel in WvW. Even if I wanted to duel against someone from another server, they can GUEST to me!

I understand your attitude towards duelers, but you must understand that partaking in duels is educational as well as conducive to creating friendship when done right!

The (partially) forced location is not entirely the fault of the dueler!

Your presence won’t tip the anything no, but a bunch of people like you thinking the same thing does tip the scale which is typically the issue. It is more or less the difference between server tiering honestly. I play on TC, and this week we are seeing how effective it is when servers can rally just about everyone that is in WvW to work toward the goal of the match up. Once you see SoR in action, you’d realize how counterproductive your dueling really is.

Dueling in WvW is no more or less educational than dueling in Spvp. The only difference is how gear works, and that you are more likely to be noticed failing and called on failing in Spvp if you run around doing things not relating to the objective.

Also, I didn’t say that zerging is the only way to be productive. At least be dueling someone over a Yak or something.

Okay, in a general sense, you are right. WvW dueling and sPvP dueling are equal in terms of education.

But hear me out. It’s common knowledge that builds viable in sPvP may not be so in WvW, right?

Say I want to know how to take care of thieves in WvW where their roaming is most effective. IF I could duel a thief to know the ins and outs of his build as well as mine (both of which may not be possible to create in sPvP) I might stop complaining about how apparently OP they are. The only place I can achieve this right now is WvW.
This is also why I support open world dueling despite its risks to the community as a whole. If I can duel outside of WvW I will duel outside of WvW. sPvP is an entirely different playing field and just doesn’t cut it. Until a solution comes, duelers will go to WvW.

I do understand how effective it can be to rally up EVERYONE in a map for an objective, it’s quite epic actually respect for TC, btw, I am from FA.

timidobserver.7925:

BigEvs.6971:

timidobserver.7925:

Clockradio.3257:

Because SPVP is about point capture, and you have to use SPVP gear.

WvW allows for far greater stat variety. Figure you need 30 vitality for a bit more survivability? Not a problem. In SPVP it is.

People duel in WvW because they don’t understand the point of WvW. Like the person I quoted who doesn’t realize that WvW is also about point capture.

The difference is that people are more likely to notice you failing to be productive in Spvp because of the limited people. Your whole team might then call them on how much they fail. Failing people in WvW aren’t usually noted due to the large amount of people that tend to fail in WvW.

That’s not why they duel…
They duel because sPvP stats can’t vary like they can in the open world/WvW.

Dueling is a positive experience as it teaches both parties about the strengths of their class.

I wouldn’t duel in WvW if I didn’t feel that I HAD to (same goes for the Obsidian Sanctum). Open world (PvE) dueling would solve this problem, but that is not a simple debate either.

I am a player that is usually out doing things that actually are productive toward the ultimate goal of winning the week’s matchup. To me, dueling people are useless wastes of queue space. Particularly if they jump in on reset night go run around and duel.

Again, most wouldn’t waste such space if they didn’t need to.

Honestly, my presence or lack of in a Zerg isn’t going to tip the scale in a fight. That, however, is ALSO a separate debate.

If open world dueling were implemented, I’d have no reason to duel in WvW. Even if I wanted to duel against someone from another server, they can GUEST to me!

I understand your attitude towards duelers, but you must understand that partaking in duels is educational as well as conducive to creating friendship when done right!

The (partially) forced location is not entirely the fault of the dueler!

Edit: just saw your comment about sPvP. It’s not the same. MANY builds usable in WvW cannot be made in sPvP. Telling duelers to just go to sPvP isn’t even close to a solution.

timidobserver.7925:

Clockradio.3257:

Because SPVP is about point capture, and you have to use SPVP gear.

WvW allows for far greater stat variety. Figure you need 30 vitality for a bit more survivability? Not a problem. In SPVP it is.

People duel in WvW because they don’t understand the point of WvW. Like the person I quoted who doesn’t realize that WvW is also about point capture.

The difference is that people are more likely to notice you failing to be productive in Spvp because of the limited people. Your whole team might then call them on how much they fail. Failing people in WvW aren’t usually noted due to the large amount of people that tend to fail in WvW.

That’s not why they duel…
They duel because sPvP stats can’t vary like they can in the open world/WvW.

Dueling is a positive experience as it teaches both parties about the strengths of their class.

I wouldn’t duel in WvW if I didn’t feel that I HAD to (same goes for the Obsidian Sanctum). Open world (PvE) dueling would solve this problem, but that is not a simple debate either.

If you must transfer, I’ve have a lot of fun on Fort Aspenwood. It’s “in the middle” as far as WvW goes. By that I mean you’ll find both zergs and small squads to play with.
Variety and choice are the spices of life!

Silentstorm.7531:

“AH doesn’t heal anyone except yourself. If it was something like “Heal allies whenever you apply a boon on them” it would at least be more useful, and I can also guarantee you no one would ever take it.”

Oh really yea about 20,000 views in the 2.5 post would like to disagree with you on that. Don’t assume never assume in gaming. Because your reality is not everyone elses. Also a bunker Guardian wouldn’t outdps a Paladin 2.5 Guardian already been proved.

I mean you can argue if you like. But I already proved this stuff months ago lol……Which is why it got that used and popular in the first place. I just stop talking because you reach a wall. But pretty soon that said wall will be removed. With the addition of new traits and skills.

Silentstorm, thanks for your contributions to the Guardian community, but flashing your channel/views like its bling is just off putting. Especially when you use it to justify the viability of your build. If the build is viable, it can stand on its own merits (not the merits of over 20K views). Others who have made tremendous contributions to this profession are usually slow to point out their feats.

AH is not the only viable setup at all. It’s great (which is why so many people use it), but I abandoned it long ago because I was frustrated at how ineffective I was in a small fight. It’s just not very versatile as it only thrives with allies nearby.

The Healway build on this forum is extremely versatile and is capable of taking down 3 attackers at once in the right hands. It can do well supporting in a Zerg as well. In fact, it can be effective in just about any setting.

Just watch the videos of Healway (as someone else suggest before me).

beriah.5168:

What’s the benefit of Defender’s Flame over Retributive Armor or Purity? The build doesn’t seem to get any benefit out of opponents’ being on fire, and the damage seems minimal.

Also, thanks for posting the build! I’ve heard a lot about Healway but it’s great to get the info from the original source. :-) I’ll have to craft up a set of cleric’s gear and try it out.

For starters, Retributive Armor isn’t so viable because Crit Chance is negligible (4%) in the first place. Any more Precision you gain is useless because you could use the trait for Defenders Flame or Purity. If I remember correctly, Chris isn’t concrete on which traits you MUST use (some exceptions such as +25% Retal Duration). Think of Defender’s Flame as another Retal source since Retal doesn’t go off when you block. I switch back and forth, as sometimes I agree that the passive condition removal (which this build lacks) is nice.
I know you probably wanted Chris to answer, but I thought I’d give it a shot too!

Farzo.8410:

BigEvs.6971:

Ranger – Definitely Signet of the Hunt for +25% move speed
Guardian – Shouts in general as far as WvW goes. I love the idea of Consecrations (Hallowed Ground stability sounds awesome) but shouts allow for much more versatility in the open field. Consecrations such as Sanctuary have crippling CD even when traited too.

OP I would consider changing this topic to Utilities that you feel are a “staple” to their respective professions. Feeling “forced” is a bit negative
Also, maybe expand the topic to weapons or trait lines as opposed to just utilities?
Just something to consider, good post!

I could rename it, but I named it like this because the more ‘dramatic’ the name is, the more people will get their attention to it, that is also why I put the apostrophes on ‘forced’, meaning that I was sarcastic, because people aren’t forced to anything, it’s their own choice on which utility they take.

I think I will stay with the utility topic for now, but people can post more things if they feel like it ;P

Fair enough, thanks for your consideration!

Ranger – Definitely Signet of the Hunt for +25% move speed
Guardian – Shouts in general as far as WvW goes. I love the idea of Consecrations (Hallowed Ground stability sounds awesome) but shouts allow for much more versatility in the open field. Consecrations such as Sanctuary have crippling CD even when traited too.

OP I would consider changing this topic to Utilities that you feel are a “staple” to their respective professions. Feeling “forced” is a bit negative
Also, maybe expand the topic to weapons or trait lines as opposed to just utilities?
Just something to consider, good post!

I would recommend the ranger. The guardian used to be my favorite before tinkering with the ranger. If you invest trait points in your pet, it will tank or damage (depending on pet type) extremely well. Controlling is easy as clicking attack (or pressing F1), using special abilities (most are situational) at F2, and return/swap. While the pet does the dirty work, you can hang back and shoot with a Shortbow/Longbow paired with a greatsword as it is the most forgiving of ranger melee weapons.
The pets have been buffed, and although their damage is said to be coming down I believe they’ll still be viable when traited. Their AI, although still a bit idiotic at times, is a VAST improvement over what it was.
Bunker is great in the (ugh) “meta,” and may suit you well with its heals. Even as a bunker the pet will provide great amounts of damage when traited.
Good Luck! GW2 is glad to have you!

I’ve used your Basic Ranger, as well as this Hybrid and I Love them both. WvW is actually more fun on my ranger than my Guardian!

Also, I tried this in sPvP. Wasn’t able to get the stats exactly right, AND I forgot to equip the sigils, but this build does pretty good work (I don’t frequent the sPvP often, but I got Top Player about 4/5 games I played).

norc.5073:

and a short range AoE attack that cannot even hit on walls.

If you want a quick tip on using the staff for siege defense, the Staffs AoE hits through the gate. I’ve actually killed careless people melee-ing the gate or using a ram, and at a 40%+ crit rate, the damage is steady and not too bad at all!