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Always the same people in the same guilds/teams, all the time, every single night, sometimes even in a row.
Yep. Its a dead horse alright.
The pvp dailies is the only thing that makes people play.
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eh. Warriors lost around 30% of their total damage across the board since healing signet was buffed and people are still complaining about them.
After you get the next survivability buffs you will be in a great to OP state for the next few months. Hopefully eles wont get the same hate and crap we warriors have been putting with for months now.
lyssa runes, lyssa runes, lyssa runes.
Just nerf the kitten lyssa runes already.
In wvw you have applied fortitude, 70 vitality from lemongrass, the ruins bonus and the wvw health bonus.
How much health do you really need?
Knight armour + full berserk trinkets and weapons.
If you need more toughness then just exchange the 2 rings for cavaliers.
You’re done.
What are you guys talking about? Mending is absolutely horrible. Both the heal amount and the recharge time.
ah, such purity just begging to be corrupted:)
I blame it on the removal of the wvw matchup discussion forum.
Everyones loves drama, and the lack of it made people lose interest.
Trash talking is a part of competition and sports.
Warriors can deal with this easily, other classes that bring range only weapons cant however.
1.Sure they can, they just move out of the way.
2. If they’re not warrior, how did the thief get WA?
4. I’m trying to to think which class in the game is beholden soley to projectile weapons? The only one I can think of is Engineer, who also has the option of getting out of the way and further begs the question, where did the thief get WA?It seems bizarre to me that the few bizarre claims that the WA is somehow overpowered, seems to come from people who use projectile weapons and don’t know how to stop shooting or warriors who don’t know how to use dodge. Both of whom, lets face it, deserve to lose for their laziness and would do so anyway given that these mechanics (reflect + dodge) are core to GW2 gameplay.
Sigh, you do know they dont have to use it as soon as they get it.
They can steal it and just use it whenever.
Warriors can deal with this easily, other classes that bring range only weapons cant however.
Its just lag. A scenario that happens often is using flurry at the same time the enmy initiates a dodge roll. In that event the immobilize will take effect after the roll has finished, whenever that player landed.
Im also suprised to see power necros so low in these lists. If you are basing the lists in 1v1 potential yes theyre pretty awful except when lich form that can guarantee a 1v1 win 90% of the time.
However, power necros are roamers, they can turn the tide of teamfights completely. If you see a power necro attacking a point or dueling someone 1v1, hes just bad.
So, in teamfight support, I would definitely put him on A tier. Definitely not S tier, but not B or less.
The warriors all understood what you meant, but who are you replying to?
I took the time to read everything.
I’m sorry to say that while it started interesting, most of the above changes are such a nerf to warriors to not only make then unviable, but put them in a worst state that they were the first 10 months of the games.
As highlights ,the sword is already one of the more badly designed warrior weapons,
requiring to be a hybrid to be able to use all skills effectively does not warrant any nerfs. The opposite really, we have been asking for sword buffs for a while now.
Agreed on the impale change though.
Youre also nerfing healing signet way too harshly, without proposing any other form of viable sustain. Read any of the healing signet daily whine threads and look for posts supporting why healing signet is fine as it is.
Youre also nerfing viable condition warrior builds (granted they do need a nerf, but not as harsh as this).
Longbow. We have only one skill that blinds the opponent and you are taking it away from us. F1 burst radius is already nerfed for no good reason on dec 10 patch, it does not need an extra nerf. Pin down has a nerf incoming already (again with no good reason).
Greatsword. Interesting proposal on F1 burst. Though I still wouldnt use the autoattack to put vulnerability on an enemy (widely regarded the weakest condition).
Also, why are you making a predominantly power weapon be reliant on conditions appliance to do damage? Whirlwind change is awful, as even now in order to do damage the enemy has to have you immobilized in melee range or against the wall.
Most people use whirlwind for the extra dodge and mobility, rather than the damage.
Rush is still broken, on the few times it hits it warranties the damage.
Still no change to 100b rooting.
Leg specialist first nerf was already ridiculous. You are now just burying it.
Shield. Why. Just. Why? Its already far sub par to other classes that can use shields.
Hammer. Already double nerfed. Now triple nerfed. Well done.
Signets. No.
Stances. Interesting, but not unless you completely redesign the condition meta, or new pvp nodes are added. Else youre just nerfing the and with it warrior survivability.
Granted, I did not read all your other threads about the other classes.
However, the above changes, to be blunt, would make all the warriors ragequit.
if you have a power necro, send him to defend close. Lich form will guarantee a kill pretty much always for all but the best engis.. If lich form is on cd, a good power necro can still kill the engi relatively easy.
I think that base warrior damage should be reduced but they should get better offensive traits so that there is actually a reason for them to invest in traits that give damage. If this happens we might even see more build diversity. However, I’m not sure that warriors will invest offensively in the current pvp condition meta.[/quote]
I’m for this as a general design for all classes. Lower base, higher coefficients. Make a person choose precisely how they want to do damage.[/quote]
Im sorry but did you read the patches so far to see how much warriors damage has been already reduced?
If I were to modify stealth.
Failed attacks cause you to leave stealth.
Hell no, this would kill Thieves for a lot of people I know since we play with a constant 250+ms ping. We can literally be right behind someone and have our backstabs miss.
Youre not the only people and profession that play with high ping you know.
Also, backstab does the bonus damage from the sides too.But we are the only class that has our most powerful skill (backstab) come from stealth, revealed on miss means it’s a waste of an attack and we can’t use it again for another 4secs.
No, youre not the only class that have powerful skills on long cooldowns. 4s is nothing.
And those skills are also affected by ping.
Only other classes cant do it from stealth and are highly telegraphed.
Again, to be honest I have nothing against the thief class, I dont think it needs any nerfs at all. Just the kitten Lyssa runes that carry the class so hard.
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Vengeance is awful. Warriors have the worst downed state.
That is all
remove lyssa runes. problem solved
That’s the easiest way to bring more problems due to condispam being able to destroy low hp class with few condi removals (thief in 1st position)
so giving them aegis, stability and protection while putting down a blind field and immobilizing/basilisk venom, making it really hard for you to retaliate, while eating insane burst, is not a problem in your eyes?
And all that every time they use their elite which has the lowest cd in the game?
you can leave the remove all condis in lyssa runes if you want. Its the boons that are the problem.insane burst comes from ogre rune thieves…
Right… Because thieves need ogre runes to do decent burst.
[sarcasm]I also started pvp yesterday.[/sarcasm]
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remove lyssa runes. problem solved
That’s the easiest way to bring more problems due to condispam being able to destroy low hp class with few condi removals (thief in 1st position)
so giving them aegis, stability and protection while putting down a blind field and immobilizing/basilisk venom, making it really hard for you to retaliate, while eating insane burst, is not a problem in your eyes?
And all that every time they use their elite which has the lowest cd in the game?
you can leave the remove all condis in lyssa runes if you want. Its the boons that are the problem.
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remove lyssa runes. problem solved
Thieves are only carried by lyssa runes atm. Nerf or remove them and thieves will be way easier to deal with.
If I were to modify stealth.
Failed attacks cause you to leave stealth.
Hell no, this would kill Thieves for a lot of people I know since we play with a constant 250+ms ping. We can literally be right behind someone and have our backstabs miss.
Youre not the only people and profession that play with high ping you know.
Also, backstab does the bonus damage from the sides too.
You have never played a power necro in lich form.
But if youre just talking about class diversity onl;y and not build diversity,
I would say that its just eles that arent viable and to a lesser degree rangers.
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the second screenshot looks like a necro to me.
The first is a warrior AND a necro.
1: see my previous post. Warriors have no other viable sustain. Before you nerf it, consider the side effects of that nerf to the class, At the very least propose another viable sustain for a predominantly melee class with no access to protection, blinds, evades.
Beside having an area blind on longbow (smoldering arrow, 15s cooldown) and an evade on greatsword (10s cooldown) and several blocks (counterblow, riposte, shield stance). And those are just weapon skills.
Obviously that’s without counting the innate high hp and defense of the class. And the utilities like endure pain and berserker’s stance.
And it isn’t like warriors are the only class without direct access to protection, in any case.
Not that it matters much, though…it isn’t like they’re immune to it, and since quite any party ends up having a guardian, it will be applied anyway…and along with a sustain supposedly balanced about not having said buff.
1 blind skill on a single weapon does not equate access to blinds (i.e guardian)
Were sacrificing all our utilities for stances because healing signet cant quite cut it alone to survive. We sacrifice all our runes and food slot to also be able to limitate conditions and movement impairing as well. We also need 20 trait points allocated into defense before we even think of the next of the build.
And for god sake people adrenal health has an interval of 3 seconds and requires full adrenaline. At most, its 120hp/s.
Sigh. Im coming to the realization that people just do the threads vs warriors just to vent, without knowing anything about the class. Enough is enough. Let anet decide what to do, im done with this thread.
Now that we actually pose a threat, all the whiners want warriors to go back to being insignificant.
Don’t you think warriors are a little bit too significant right now? How many people play warriors? A lot, right? They dominate all areas of the game.
Now contrast this to the other classes. Something is a little off there. And it’s not just the easy-to-play nature of the class.
No we dont. Like explained above in pve we arent the top damage dealers anymore.
in wvw mesmers and thieves make far better duelists and roamers.
In pvp hambow has already been harshly nerfed, we can make a great secondary bun ker but noone near guardians and engis. Our best build right now is conditions, and again engis and necros do that far better than us.
We are at least very viable, but not OP or UP.
Dont kid yourself.
1) Healing Signet – the Passive “nerf” is simply not enough and you can bet that the buff to the active will be more than 8%. the “nerf” is a mere 38(ish) HpS that is really nothing.
2) Hammer – The CC spam on this weapon is out of control and the Conditions last for to long. A few tweaks to the cool downs, mostly of the Burst and this would be fixed
3) Mobility – A simple fix, make Rush and other skills work the same as Ride The Lightening. If you don’t hit a target a target, you get a double cool down. This is mostly for Rush
1: see my previous post. Warriors have no other viable sustain. Before you nerf it, consider the side effects of that nerf to the class, At the very least propose another viable sustain for a predominantly melee class with no access to protection, blinds, evades.
2. Hammer was nerfed with a whopping 31% damage nerf. kitten people learn to dodge the obvious animations and bring stability.
3. Rush has been broken since the beta and its doesnt hit absolutely anything. We would like to use it for anything else but disengaging, but please look for some very funny youtube videos on how bad rush is. We would actually trade ir for RTL.
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I mean, you have the best mobility (thieves), the highest health (tied with necro), highest armor (heavy class, tied with guardian)), insane CC spamming ability(thief, mesmer), the best regen in the game (ranger, guardian) and very good damage( around the middle of the list) and yet you want MORE….
Fixed it for you
What we have not: Boon spamming and boon hate, clones, stealth, non telegraphed skills, fields, access to protection, blind spam.Just carrying the Greatsword you can escape ANYONE
You compare the health with Necro – yet Necro have low armor and next to no defensive options. They have 6second protection every 60 seconds and a Class Mechanic that not only needs to have A LOT of traits to be any good but melts the moment it is focused AND has VERY little access to stability. You compare Armor, how much health does Guardian have again?Lol did you just say Mesmer have insane CC? Yeah, if they take 2 Utilities with 30 second and 45 second cool downs, take Greatsword for another on 30second cool down and another on 45 second cool down. That 4 and it costs A LOT seeing as you are having to use 2/3 of your utilities. Warrior – 3 with 10second, 20second and 30 second cool downs and thats just from ONE weapon set (and Burst) you could also get another 3 from Utilities….
Sorry but Healing Signet is ONE slot item, requires NOTHING else. I have over 500 healing on my ele and my Regen would require FOUR stacks to be ONLY marginally better than a Passive Regen that requires it to be slotted and nothing more.
what other class has ALL of this…
You don’t need any of that when you have the joint highest health, joint highest armor (and only class to be top of both) blocks, immunities, insane regen, insane mobility and other things…
Actually you cant escape anyone but probably necros with greatsword alone.
You need to sacrifice both your weapons sets to get this mobility. Thieves can do it with longbow alone.
Ahem, you know mesmers can unload those abilities from 1200 range while we need to be at 130 (bar earthshaker). They can also do it from stealth or while hiding between their clones. They also have way too many ways to escape from our cc in case they hit.
Healing signet is all the sustain we have. Without it we would die way too easily.
If you want it taken away then propose another form of viable sustain for warriors.
PS: mending is a joke and healing surge isnt cutting it at 30s cd. (devs said they would lower the cds but they forgot.)
Now. We had all those things since the beta and the warrior was still considered a free kill for 9 months before cleansing ire and healing signet.
We even had at least double the damage, but we couldnt live long enough to do it.
Noone ofcourse complained about these things back then.
Now that we actually pose a threat, all the whiners want warriors to go back to being insignificant.
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I mean, you have the best mobility (thieves), the highest health (tied with necro), highest armor (heavy class, tied with guardian)), insane CC spamming ability(thief, mesmer), the best regen in the game (ranger, guardian) and very good damage( around the middle of the list) and yet you want MORE….
Fixed it for you
What we have not: Boon spamming and boon hate, clones, stealth, non telegraphed skills, fields, access to protection, blind spam.
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It is much easier for a warrior to out DPS almost every Elementalist since melee skills have 2 to 3 times the DPS as ranged
Im sorry…what? Are you still in the beta?
Also, yeah there is still this misconception that warriors still do top DPS for some reason.
Please review warrior changes over the patches and see for yourself how many damage nerfs we took.Not to say that elementalists and thieves didnt get their fair share of nerfs, ofcourse.
But the above quote is still wrong on so many levelsThere is a massive difference between theoretical best DPS (where Warriors are nowhere close to the top, to be honest) and practical max DPS. In the later category, which is what really matters, Warriors are, in fact, on top because they don’t have to constantly back off to survive, unlike those professions that can out-damage them. Because of this, Warriors do, in practice, have the highest DPS in the game. The only thing that might out-do them is in PvE where a necro could land a massive Epidemic, but the stars have to align for a mob to have that many conditions and not already be dead.
Practical Max dps: Im assuming you mean how easy it is to deliver your damage payload. In that case: Power necros, fresh air eles, heartseeker spam thieves, guardian greatsword whirling wrath that does more dps in practice than our 100b.
Were still not on the top. Not for quite a while now.
It is much easier for a warrior to out DPS almost every Elementalist since melee skills have 2 to 3 times the DPS as ranged
Im sorry…what? Are you still in the beta?
Also, yeah there is still this misconception that warriors still do top DPS for some reason.
Please review warrior changes over the patches and see for yourself how many damage nerfs we took.
Not to say that elementalists and thieves didnt get their fair share of nerfs, ofcourse.
But the above quote is still wrong on so many levels
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I didnt read the whole thread, but did anyone mention that backstab extra damage happens also from the sides and not just from the back, thus making it quite easy to land?
The reason Fast Hands will be pushed down to 10 points is because it should go in conjunction with Adrenal Health’s move as a Major Trait. Warriors can’t get Dogged March, Adrenal Health, and Cleansing Ire with just mere 20 points anymore so they get to spend less for Fast Hands and get to spend more to defense if they still want to pursue getting all 3 traits.
Adrenal health is already useless since warriors dont sit on their adrenaline. I would gladly exchange it with a decent minor trait.
Adrenal Health is useless? Many people will beg to differ. I know it needs at least 2 levels of adrenaline to synergize well with Healing Signet but it gives warriors a win-win situation if they go for Cleansing Ire.
You sit with your adrenaline then you get additional Sustain. You spend your adrenaline then you get more cleanse. Everybody know how easy it is to build Adrenaline.
Ok, its not totally useless. Lets call it borderline useless.
Why would you even sit on your adrenaline and not make liberal use of cleansing ire with all the conditions flying around?
At lvl 3 adrenaline, 120hp/s assuming the attacker has NO condition damage AT ALL (ie. 0, zero, zilch) counters 3 stacks of bleeding, poison eliminates it (33% less healing = 80 hp/s left and poison does 84/s), a single stack of torment and nothing against burning.
And power builds would laugh at 120hp/s anyway when you do 2k per autoattack.
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If anything cleansing Ire should be moved away from the Defense line and put into Strength master or even grandmaster. Similar shuffle should also be done for other classes so that glass counter condi (and condi counters direct damage bunkering/regen, and bunker counters glass, etc).
No. Please read the discussion before posting, your change would absolutely ruin the class.
We already discussed how bad it would be to even get moved to grandmaster and require 10 more trait points to get.
And you want to invest 20 in strength now?
The only class that should come close to having an absolute defensive privilege is Guardian.
On what basis do you support this claim?
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The reason Fast Hands will be pushed down to 10 points is because it should go in conjunction with Adrenal Health’s move as a Major Trait. Warriors can’t get Dogged March, Adrenal Health, and Cleansing Ire with just mere 20 points anymore so they get to spend less for Fast Hands and get to spend more to defense if they still want to pursue getting all 3 traits.
Adrenal health is already useless since warriors dont sit on their adrenaline. I would gladly exchange it with a decent minor trait.
Warriors will still get cleansing Ire wherever they put it. But it would really be a big blow to warriors if its changed with the current meta.
Also, far too many traits have been moved up the line for warriors already.
Most of our adept tier major traits suck. Arms and strength adept traits especially.
It was nerfed in the dec 10 patch you know.
31% overall hammer damage nerf in fact.
So, uh ..yeah.
Wait, you can actually USE healing signet? It has a cooldown? Huh, I just assumed it didn’t work. 6 key must be broken…
Actually, going down with healing signet not activated is VERY BAD form.
It is a lifesaver in some situations.
Hey guys, thief here.
I’m only posting thoughts because this thread is alive, otherwise I wouldnt… but here are some of the larger issues I’ve noticed myself, and other people having in common towards warriors(specifically in WvW).
It has to do with the amount of high sustainability, mobility, and damage. Three factors that are the primary attributes needed to survive in WvW, something that no other class has. The combination all those three particular strengths makes someone incredibly hard to fight against. Once the truck is in combat, the truck hits hard, and takes a lot of damage and time to take down. If at any point the truck wants to leave combat, they easily can(assuming swords are equipt). I’m no newbie to pvp and wvw…there have been multiple times where a warrior trolls with small groups of people and runs away at will after a massive amount of AoE damage is splashed about.
My suggestions? Don’t nerf the damage, dont nerf the survivability… Nerf the mobility just a tad. I’m not sure why it turned out to be this way, but warriors being the most mobile(assuming swords) class in the game is a bit counter intuitive for a massive hulking tanky class covered in layers of steel.
Longbow / D/P Thief has the most mobility assuming they have a target to teleport steal and shadowshot.
Elementalists Fire sword also provides one of the best ways to run away from absolutely everything:)
Rangers greatsword Swoop is just a dream with only 12 seconds untraited cd
Yet people always complain about warriors.
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Immobilization is broken because of 20 second immobilization that thieves and engineers can put out. Not because of warrior’s 3 second immobilize.
Well, it would make it easy to get 6 seconds immobilize at least with sword /greatsword and signet of fury.
Still too much.
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there was already a solution to the problem of zerkers against condition called SIGILL OF PURITY. all what was needed was a fix and improve of a shorter cooldown.
sigil of purity procc’ed on cooldown, even without having a single condition on you. It was and is bad.
Also, please lets not balance a class based on sigil and runes. For the love of god.
Speaking of runes, lets wait for rune and sigil redesign first. People are expecting a lot of power creep, and I think it will shake the meta to the core.
Hooma, Harper, DuranArgith…. thank you for putting out some very clear and constructive thoughts on the defense tree (helps little ole’ me who doesn’t have a warrior and can’t grasp the concept as fast).
So…… has anyone suggested that Cleansing Ire be switched with Spiked Armor to become a grandmaster major trait? Wouldn’t this solve the supposed problem of an easy 20 into the trait tree and make the warrior actually build for 30 before chosing either the condition cleanse OR the low hp EP proc (kinda like ranger’s WS line)?
Please don’t shred my idea …. I just can’t judge very well what this would do for the profession so could you more experienced warriors tell me?
Well, a warrior in my opinion needs 35 trait points that are an absolute must.
15 in fast hands and 20 for cleansing ire.Your idea would mean that warriors would be starving for trait points if they needed 45 points out of 70 in order to even be viable.
Sounds kinda boring and build restricting to “require” 35 trait points already. My suggestion might mean even more of a restriction OR more build diversity and I think that other professions already have the issue of “requiring” to go 30 into at least one trait tree.
Anyways, what do you suggest as an alternative?
I cant really suggest any alternative. Most condition battling traits for classes are on the master level. Cleansing Ire being a master level is consistent.
I’ll have my cleansing wave remove three conditions and reduce attunement recharges by one second then, if you please, (does 3 conditions every ten seconds with a boost to my profession mechanic included in my defense traitline sound familiar?).
If Cleansing Ire is comparable to master-level major traits of other classes, then you would presumably be okay with receiving the equivalent of one of these skills in its place:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Inscriptions
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Wave_ (mentally replace this with a weapon swap, on 10-13 second cooldown)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleaning_Formula_409 (mentally replace this with shouts or banners or something)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inscribed_Removal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Absolute_Resolution (mentally replace this with something that has a 60-second cooldown)I assume you aren’t, because every single one of these (and these are the master major cleansing traits for other classes) is quite obviously weaker. I would go so far as to say that most grandmaster cleansing traits are weaker.
This isn’t to say that Cleansing Ire is in the wrong place, just to show how far and above it is beyond equivalent cleansing traits, and thus to show how wrong it is to say that cleansing ire is consistent with other master-level traits.
You haven’t read the conversation about cleansing ire at all, have you….
Also, youre comparing elementalist, a class that noone can deny that needs buffs to other classes.
Also, the above are like I said: condition battling traits are master level consistently. Noone said that all traits are equal, though the examples you gave gives you more control compared to cleansing ire. you dont need to hit to use signets, or to attune to air. It happens 100% of the time.
This is not the thread to talk about classes traits power really.
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The only other trait against conditions warriors have is restorative strength
(10 points in strength, removes weakness, immobilize, chilled and crippled when using a healing skill)Pretty kitten worthless. dogged march , runes and lemongrass make it completely obsolete.
Other than that and cleansing ire, warriors have no other trait that deals with conditions, at all.Just checked the wiki and saw the “Shake it Off” and “Quick Breathing” traits under Tactics. Those seem fine…. are they actually not good in application? If they actually are then doesn’t that strengthen my suggestion of moving “Cleansing Ire” to the Grandmaster Major trait selection as a means to make warriors choose to combat their weakness to conditions?
Edit: On second thought it sounds even better because it means warriors might opt to go 10 into defense, and 20 in tactics instead of the full 30 into defense, but they will have to really make a choice to get that adrenal health as 15 in discipline seems “required” (meaning build restriction though….).
Oh yeah, completely forgot about those since I haven’t used them in ages. My bad.
Mobile strikes only deals with a single condition and only when running away really. And it just removes immobilize at the start of the skill, you can get immobilised again during the animation. And the lemongrass combo deals with that as well. Its a better trait in pvp though, but like I said warriors starve for trait points and many opt to just ignore it. Also optimal use requires the warrior to get pidgeonholed into greatsword and sword. (eathshaker and shield bash work as well, but.)
Now shrug it off is just..bad. You have no control over it, 25 seconds is a lot of cd for one condition (even 20 is long when traited) and you need to have 2 conditions on you to trigger. Just avoid.
Quick breathing is actually good if you use warhorn. I believe it went out of fashion long ago, warriors were using it because the trait was bugged and removed 2 conditions instead of 1). Also, noone uses warhorn in PVP, or PVE. In wvw, the only reason to bring warhorn is for the mobility, but really, is mobility one of warriors problems?
Also I would like to take this opportunity to make a plea to the devs: Please, warriors have been asking for the tactics line minor traits to be reworked since the beta. Please do something about it, I dont want to be specialized in reviving people. Its not the warriors role. Thank you.
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The only other trait against conditions warriors have is restorative strength
(10 points in strength, removes weakness, immobilize, chilled and crippled when using a healing skill)
Pretty kitten worthless. dogged march , runes and lemongrass make it completely obsolete.
Other than that and cleansing ire, warriors have no other trait that deals with conditions, at all.
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Hooma, Harper, DuranArgith…. thank you for putting out some very clear and constructive thoughts on the defense tree (helps little ole’ me who doesn’t have a warrior and can’t grasp the concept as fast).
So…… has anyone suggested that Cleansing Ire be switched with Spiked Armor to become a grandmaster major trait? Wouldn’t this solve the supposed problem of an easy 20 into the trait tree and make the warrior actually build for 30 before chosing either the condition cleanse OR the low hp EP proc (kinda like ranger’s WS line)?
Please don’t shred my idea …. I just can’t judge very well what this would do for the profession so could you more experienced warriors tell me?
Well, a warrior in my opinion needs 35 trait points that are an absolute must.
15 in fast hands and 20 for cleansing ire.Your idea would mean that warriors would be starving for trait points if they needed 45 points out of 70 in order to even be viable.
Sounds kinda boring and build restricting to “require” 35 trait points already. My suggestion might mean even more of a restriction OR more build diversity and I think that other professions already have the issue of “requiring” to go 30 into at least one trait tree.
Anyways, what do you suggest as an alternative?
I cant really suggest any alternative. Most condition battling traits for classes are on the master level. Cleansing Ire being a master level is consistent.
Hooma, Harper, DuranArgith…. thank you for putting out some very clear and constructive thoughts on the defense tree (helps little ole’ me who doesn’t have a warrior and can’t grasp the concept as fast).
So…… has anyone suggested that Cleansing Ire be switched with Spiked Armor to become a grandmaster major trait? Wouldn’t this solve the supposed problem of an easy 20 into the trait tree and make the warrior actually build for 30 before chosing either the condition cleanse OR the low hp EP proc (kinda like ranger’s WS line)?
Please don’t shred my idea …. I just can’t judge very well what this would do for the profession so could you more experienced warriors tell me?
Well, a warrior in my opinion needs 35 trait points that are an absolute must.
15 in fast hands and 20 for cleansing ire.
Your idea would mean that warriors would be starving for trait points if they needed 45 points out of 70 in order to even be viable.
Warrior’s condition management was buffed in an attempt by Anet to make the meta shift from condi-heavy to something else.
That’s not what happened – what happened is people jumped on playing warriors instead of countering the newly emerging threat. Either that or went to the forums and started crying about how OP warriors now are instead of finding a counter and moving from there.Here’s what I think – Cleansing Ire is not as bad as people make it out to be – you actually have to LAND your F1 in order to clear the condies – and a good player won’t allow you to.
The problem are the bads that will and that will cry that you killed them.
another troll or just unexperienced? how comes that u think u can add something to this discussion?
just as reminder: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combustive_Shot
yes, well longbow burst and sword flurry are the only burst skills that make use of cleansing ire reliably. And sword burst is 130 range.
And even then, combustive shot got nerfed last patch.
All other burst skills can be avoided the same way as any melee attack. So, warrior needs to hit meanwhile guardians lose 2 conditions every 10 seconds and ranger 3 as long pet is alive (always) NO MATTER WHAT.
So yeah, cleansing ire is fine.
And if you miss your burst? Congratulations you cant cleanse conditions for 7-10 seconds while being eaten alive. If you miss both your bursts well then….Sounds like a weakness and a good tradeoff to me.
(edited by DuranArgith.1354)
F1 skills do not generate adrenaline unless you have the furious trait and you crit.
Anet also believed this was the case and nerfed the longbow without any reason.Also, no D/D eles are not melee. D/D ele is range 300, melee weapons are range 130.
Warriors only have 1 semi viable ranged weapon, the longbow. Rifle is…unfortunate:(
And yes, while other classes can go melee as well, its the warrior that defines the melee playstyle.
Cleansing ire, that is the source of your adrenal regen. Because you’re pretty much constantly being hit in a fight adrenaline just fills right back up. I’ve played warrior enough to understand adrenal mechanics and how easy and quickly the bar refills.
Are you really saying that 300 range isn’t melee range? Try and maintain 300 distance from another ‘melee’ player, as in theory you shouldn’t get hit at all, record it and come back. Should be easy since 300 is such a huge distance in this game apparently.
If you’re saying being able to do 15kcrits at 1200+ range every 7 seconds or so is unfortunate, then you’ve not played any other classes have you. I’m sure being able to instakill players in the time it takes for a full adrenal must really be hard going.
If you ever, ever, ever get hit by killshot, one on one or a small skirmish, the problem is the player, not the skill. Block it, reflect it, aegis, blind it, you know when its coming because a giant red circle appears below your character which means youre the target of a channeled skill. It really cant get more obvious than that. And even if the burst is great, it doesn’t amount to the other 5 bad skills of the rifle. Even longbow outdps the rifle in the long run. The only use rifle has is against stealth thieves, but most warriors wont even carry a rifle to combat one single class.
Now, I sure wish I had that extra 170 range on my melee attacks, every warrior would give his right leg for it, because if you play melee long enough you would know how much of an advantage that would give you. Im guessing you never played melee as you claim, if you think that those extra units are nothing.
Yes, cleansing ire produces most of the adrenaline, but the conversation is about adrenal health, and like I said, warriors DO NOT sit on their adrenaline. They use it as much as possible which makes adrenal give only a fraction of the regen.
(edited by DuranArgith.1354)
Warrior is a melee?
So a d/d ele isn’t a melee? A gs/axe ranger isn’t a melee? A d/d necro isn’t a melee?
You’re only a melee if you choose to be. You have access to rifle and longbow. If those weapons weren’t that effective why do I see so many of them in pvp/wvw. If I said to you ’Would you rather have a longbow ranger on your team or a longbow warrior..which would you have? ’ Every class can be kited.
Don’t even begin to suggest that adrenaline gain is somehow a problem. Adrenaline is back to full a few seconds after using an F1 ability in fights. Also how is a constant health regen useless in battle?
Fast hands being a class feature? Eles have to spec 30 pnts into arcane just to get their swaps down to 10 seconds from 13 seconds.
It’s always the same when you argue with warrior players, you somehow believe that warriors are the only ones to take damage in this game or are subject to cc or conditions which justifies all your abilities and hitpoints/toughness.
Preach the truth!
F1 skills do not generate adrenaline unless you have the furious trait and you crit.
Anet also believed this was the case and nerfed the longbow without any reason.
Also, no D/D eles are not melee. D/D ele is range 300, melee weapons are range 130.
Warriors only have 1 semi viable ranged weapon, the longbow. Rifle is…unfortunate:(
And yes, while other classes can go melee as well, its the warrior that defines the melee playstyle.