Guild Wars 2

Last year’s event was a lot of fun, so it’s a shame I can’t join the festivities this time. I guess I’ll have to be satisfied just joining the raffle. I’d like number 30, if it’s still available.

Good luck finding Hobo’s valentine and I hope you have a great time.

Twitch chat, like Youtube comments and most of Twitter, is just a toxic environment that’s best avoided. Exceptions exist, but usually there’s nothing lost in ignoring it or turning it off.

As for the presentation and the gameplay shown:

These are devs talking about the game they’re working on, not people trained at public speaking or how to play the crowd. That makes it a bit awkward at times, as they think of what they can and want to say and how they can say it, but also comes off as more genuine and spontaneous. Also, playing and talking to an audience at the same time is difficult.

The same is true about the footage. For one, they’re limited in what they can show us. This was the first showing of gameplay footage. They would not show us things that weren’t talked about in depth in a blog yet. In fact, what was announced is this:

They’ll venture into the Maguuma Jungle to show you one of the adventures we heard about earlier this week. Plus, they’ll discuss how some of the systems work.

They told us what we would get to see and that is what we got, but we also got to see a couple of things that they probably didn’t mean for us to see.

Some people here are asking for prerecorded footage, but what makes you think we would see more than we did now? If anything, we would’ve seen less. In anything going out to the players, PR will be involved. Producers and PR want everything to be controlled for a certain reaction. Non-live footage can and will be edited to show exactly what they want to show. No crashes that show us the Revenant icon, no Pop or Testcine hopping into the screen, no fps and video information, no message about guilds and chapters. All of the random stuff that happened would have been edited out. I, for one, would rather see live gameplay than edited footage.

Also, the map obviously showed only the tiny area they had explored on that character. You see the same on any character on an unexplored map.

I’m happy with what I got to see. Devs sounding excited about the game makes me more excited about what’s coming than hearing a PR person talk about it would. And the raw gameplay gives me stuff to think about. Then again, I don’t let unreasonable expectations cloud my mind going into these showings. It’s still early in the reveals, we’ll get more as we get closer to PAX East, Rezzed and beta.

The glowy armour sort of reminds me of the Zodiac armour.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I’ll consider it, especially if others highly suggest it to me. But for now, I need a break. I may log in later today/tomorrow just to unlock E8, so who knows, I may take time to actually go through it.

I would suggest playing it eventually. I think there’s a lot of interesting details in it, though I’m not too familiar with GW1 lore.

Mental Paradox.3845:

No, nobody’s kitten was hurt, that must be why people are ragequitting the game forever.

When someone is so disappointed in something that they don’t feel like spending any more time on it, they often decide to leave.

I don’t think anyone here said they’re leaving the game indefinitely, though. Even Konig said he might still play.

Rednik.3809:

I have no idea how someone can protect literally “innocent mary sue” state of sylvari when Anet finally gave them a depth.

Nobody is saying that the Sylvari shouldn’t have more depth, just that the direction they took for this depth is (currently) rather disappointing.

I don’t think anyone’s kitten was hurt during this episode. The regulars on the lore forum are probably used to their theories being proven wrong occasionally, so why would they care about that this time? It’s just that they, or at least some of them, are disappointed in the direction Anet seems to be going with the lore. The often apparent continuity errors don’t help either, even if they are because stuff changed between original reveal and now.

That said, I’ll be sad to see you go, Konig. I enjoy reading your posts. They’re usually informative and very well put together.

lordkrall.7241:

So, the whole thing that points against the (clearly true) theory was that it didn’t work the same way as everything else? There is nothing in any of those points that PROVE anything at all.

Sylvari are clearly completely different from Glint, so assuming they would need to be freed in the same way as Glint is a bit far-fetched and so on.

The Dragons clearly are different, with different methods and such, so why assume that freeing minions from their influence works the exact same way?

All it comes down to people disagreeing with things, nothing about any actual proof.

The same ritual that was used to free Glint from Kralkatorrik was used on a minion of Zhaitan. And it worked.

The ‘Sylvari are (freed) Dragon minions’ theory had hardly any evidence to support it. We still don’t know how they’re not without will now, just that they’re not all mindless minions of Mordremoth. When you spend so much time debunking the theory and arguing with people who refuse to accept that you may have a point, it’s no wonder if you start to hate it.

It was (and actually still is) my least favourite theory as well, even though I do like this release. There were a couple of ideas I had that I thought would be more interesting, the Sylvari being created by the Forgotten or some other ancient race, for instance, but I suppose that doesn’t matter anymore now.

We’ll have to see how it goes from here. I am curious what Heart of Thorns will bring.

Simzani.4318:

You can look at the CDI to see what it isnt coming. CDI mean that they don’t work (or plan to begin to work, or think to plan it) on its subject.

The CDI is a tool for the developers. They take a look at parts that may be missing or broken and get players to brainstorm on ideas. This gives them an incredible amount of ideas that they by themselves may not have thought of and at the same time gives an insight into what the community thinks and wants.

Some of the CDI topics are massive in scope, but the impatient and excited community doesn’t realize or seem to care for the amount of time it might take for these projects to come to completion, if they ever do.

Because of how the community reacted in the past (see precursor crafting) and because they aren’t sure if things will work out and when, they don’t want to tell us whether they are working on on those projects or not. They might not fit into the game or they might not be fun, after all.

Don’t you just love how some people casually demand to have both Cantha ánd Elona added within a year, despite the enormous amount of effort it would take to redesign, model, animate and place everything in it. Not to mention writing and adding the stories, events, music and everything else ArenaNet does.

Great content takes time to create and GW2 is an entirely different beast than GW, even if it takes place in the same fictional universe.

When you wake up on the rooftop of the Chamber of Ministers in Divinity’s Reach and you can’t remember how you got there, you know it was a good party.

Roseberry.8912:

Oooh you gotta see this one too! Its even more hilarious!! Just look at these guys!! XD

Oh look, it’s the ‘creepy and cute’ Asura. I seem to have a picture of you.

I loved the event and I’m looking forward to the next one. I didn’t take that many screenshots, so here are the good ones.

Oooh, an announcement. That was a bit sooner than I was expecting from ‘next week’.

If everything goes well and I’m in the neighbourhood, I should be able to join the adventure. I’m looking forward to it. And you won’t have to worry about me bringing any hungry hungry herbivores. The risk is too great. *shudders*

Oh, and could I have number 85, please?

I don’t know much about the eagle in Celtic mythology, what I’ve found generally points to the eagle being less important than some other animals, but I did find an interesting Welsh story involving an eagle. You can read the entire story here, but the interesting part is this:

A hero named Lleu Llaw Gyffes transformed into an eagle when he was struck by a spear. His uncle Gwydion searches for him and eventually finds him perched in an oak tree.

This story is widely believed to be linked to the story of Odin and Yggdrasil, in which Odin relates how he sacrificed himself to himself by hanging from a tree after having stabbed himself. Yggdrasil also has an eagle perched on top, with a hawk sitting between its eyes.

Lleu Llaw Gyffes is also known by other names, namely the Irish Lugh and the Gaulish Lugus, both deities.

Both the oak tree and Yggdrasil are what is known as Axis Mundi, or world pillars. It is the world’s center, the navel of the world (Omphalos) and its point of origin, and links the Heavens and the Earth.

Besides the obvious one, there are some other very interesting similarities between the Pale Tree and Yggdrasil and the various stories related to it, but that’s more off topic than I want to go right now. I might decide to write about it later in a new topic if you find it interesting.

Also, like some other birds, the eagle is often not only seen as a link between life and death, but also as a link between the gods and the humans and a symbol of ascension. Ganymedes was abducted by Zeus, in eagle form, to serve as cupbearer in Olympus. Later, he was placed in the sky as the constellation Aquarius, which is related to Aquila (the Eagle). And Christianity has the Tetramorph, which contains an eagle that represents ascension.

The episode was enjoyable enough. I loved learning more of the Asura and Sylvari history, even with the mistakes made and some of the added confusion.

Learning Caithe’s skills was odd and got me killed a couple of times. After having to restart the last instance several times to get the achievements, I didn’t even need any added motivation to kill the centaurs.

Jumping on sticks and ropes to get badges isn’t improving my mood either, even though the actual jumping puzzle is really fun.

I haven’t played the first Guild Wars game very much, so I don’t know a lot about Mamnoon Lagoon, but Mad Queen Malafide was kind enough to point it out to me when her and Daniel Frozenwind. Then we noticed how the green spot that was left of it on the unrevealed map was very close to the door. When I went there, I noticed that the ground in front of it has a blue pulsating effect at night. I wonder what that is about, I haven’t seen anyone mention it.

Superior Rune of Aurora Glade (6/6)
(1): +25 Madness
(2): +35 Fashionability during contests
(3): +50 Friendliness
(4): 10% Chance to encounter community events
(5): +100 Fun
(6): 1% Chance to summon a random character from Aurora Glade to help you. (Cooldown: 1 day)

The summoned characters are powerful and all have their own abilities.
Possible summons:
Angry Bearded Hobo, drunk Norn, grants Drunken Might and dyes the world in a fashionable humiliation pink.
Eexa, Asura Mesmer, distracts enemies and creates portals.
Jadexi, naked dancing Sylvari, grants speed boons by dancing and may hand out gold.
Santa Claus, jolly old man, spawns in a random location on the map and gives out presents when found.
Mad Queen Malafide, wife of Mad King Thorn, spawns minions/followers and starts adventures.
Daniel Frozenwind, Snowman King, freezes enemies and organizes events.

Others can be included.

This sounds fun, it seems I returned to Tyria just in time. I should be able to join the festivities this Friday.

As for the raffle, I already have a Mini llama so I’m not entirely certain I should still join. Is it still worth it or should I pass so someone else can have my spot?

In case it doesn’t matter, I’d like to register my character Spring Flow for number 415. Otherwise you can disregard this last paragraph.

I was under the impression that Mordremoth wasn’t known before now, so it really shattered my immersion when my character suddenly named him and the biconics reacted as if it was common knowledge.

I posted a first idea for a change when I gave my feedback, but I just had another idea.

What if they wrote a short story about the Priory finding an ancient tablet or artifact that mentioned Mordremoth, and then put it somewhere accessible for players to interact with in the game? It wouldn’t fix everything, but at least it would be a little less jarring, and possibly not too much work to create.

Kapina.9012:

After reading most of the posts here, an idea from an old game I used to play popped into my head.

I used to play Runescape years and years ago…in that game enemies had a chance (2%?) to drop a clue…there were easy, medium and hard clues. the hardest clue would give the best reward (ranging from somewhat decent loot to extremely expensive item(s)).

You could only carry 1 clue at a time, no matter if it’s easy, medium or hard. You can’t get another one until you either complete the clue, or you destroy it.

The idea behind the clue was simple: You get a clue from random enemy, read it, and it would tell you a hint as where the next part of the clue would be…it could be ANYWHERE in the world..it was up to you to find it (or be lazy and use some website to look it up.) After going to the next spot where the clue might be, you use spade and dig around the place and hope that you find the next clue. You’d keep doing this until eventually you would get your reward instead of another clue.

This clue system made players explore the world, use their heads, and work for their reward. It could also require some combat skill since sometimes the clue led you to wilderness (pvp zone) where other players might kill you and you’d lose your clue. This could be wvw in gw2 world.

In runescape there were a lot of different clues too, so you shouldn’t get same clue too often (I never remember getting same clue twice, although sometimes the clue led me to a same place as before, but the next clue led to a completely new place.)

Just my 2 cents.

Interesting concept. I think it would be great to have something like this in the game.

Dean Calaway.9718:

Better rewards for people to farm?
That veteran talk reminds me of something, oh yeah, the Champions “they should have better rewards” alright there you go what did people do? Yeah…

Finding it its is own reward, and it the devs got to the trouble of making something for the journal (which would be a substantial amount of work) 99% wouldn’t care while the other 1% would complain about some detail that its not 100% accurate according to GW1 “they’re killing the game! So much disregard”.

Exploring, by its nature, takes up more time than just killing stuff, and as such it is a less effective farming mechanism. While having unique skins or items only available from exploring would be nice, that’ll just be put under the RNG system again and isn’t (necessarily) what we’re talking about.

That’s why we’re trying to come up with ways to reward exploring without resorting to instant rewards.

Also, right now there is no incentive to go around exploring again after you’ve seen everything once. The views are nice, but they don’t offer much else. I don’t even pay much attention to the jumping puzzles anymore, because I’ve done them too often. I run through when the monthly is up, collect my assortment of greens and blues and leave.

I don’t like that. I want to explore the world, because it’s fun and it looks beautiful, but since there is no real purpose to it now and there are faster ways to achieve my other goals, there is no real incentive to actually do so. Something like riddles and clues, a lore codex, achievements, or maybe something completely different, would probably compel me to run around more to try and complete that.

Yes, it may take time to create something like this, but anything that makes Tyria more interesting is worth looking into, in my opinion.

Such a disappointing explanation, if it was intended to be like this from the start. People here on the forums and in the game came up with several better ways to give the reveal, and less than a day after release. Sure, we already had the writers’ framework to build on, but they really should’ve seen those options themselves.

I wonder if maybe it was just an oversight, due to working on the story for so long, or another one of those “it wasn’t in our lore wiki, so we wrote it like this”.

Would it be a good thing that it is told in an interview and not in the game, thus malleable? I wouldn’t be against a story-patch in cases like this.

I don’t mind that they’re taking breaks every now and then. It gives them more time to improve the upcoming releases and, if there is a feature patch, it gives us time to check out the changes.

LS1 was pretty stressful at times, with all the temporary achievements that needed to be done and temporary tokens/loot that needed to be gathered. LS2 is a lot better in that regard and I’m taking the time to do my own thing and enjoy myself.

Also, it’s the middle of summer and people like to take a vacation during this time, to spend some time with their family and/or relax. Things can only get worse if the developers get burned out from overworking themselves.

I’ve seen similar ideas for a Lore Codex on the Horizontal Character Progression CDI a while back. I still hope something like this will be added in some way or another. It gives those who like to explore a reason to do so and completes the objective of having more lore in the game at the same time.

The idea from the CDI and my contribution to it:

Errannar.8263

Eli Stormstrike.8637

LORE CODEX
One thing certain other games have, such as SWTOR and Diablo III, which would be very useful in GW2, is a Codex where the lore and story of the game world is stored.

We already have a similar log for our personal stories, except this expanded log might give us background information on the zones we visit, as a reward for map completion and exploration, could expand the achievement system with a new category, as a guideline on where to find these tidbits of lore.

The end goal is to provide an in-game library of lore, story and continuity that would allow both new and old players to find information on, for example, the time between GW1 and GW2 and compile the history of Guild Wars, which might also get more people interested in the zones and quests which they are doing.

Getting players immersed in the gameworld and interested in the content they’re consuming can only be a positive, and it would allow the Living World Story, which many find confusing, to be compiled in a simple, in-game log, for people to follow and read through, and could be another reward for completing the LW meta-achievement.

If we combine this with the housing idea, we can have the house contain a bookshelf or study, which can be the physical representation of this codex. Possibly let it start out empty and then fill it with books when a player completes more of their codex.

The codex can be filled in several ways:

• Players can compile a bestiary by slaying different kinds of creatures in Tyria.
• Players get a book containing lore of a zone by completing it, as mentioned by Eli.
• Players are given hints that will lead them to lore books. These will be hidden in places somehow related to the lore they cover. The books can be hidden in chests, dropped by (related) mobs, hidden behind a puzzle, obtained or put together through a quest or even just found out somewhere hidden in the environment.

Some examples on gathering these books:

• You find the ship of a famous pirate and collect their diary or logbook.
• You follow a series of clues and gather pages that form a book, like the Mad Memoires quest.
• You slap a (Risen) Priestess of Dwayna to obtain a book about the goddess.

It will give players the chance to explore the world and perform several tasks while showing them more of the lore.

One more thing I would like to see added to possible house decorations, is a buyable, or maybe craftable, portrait of your Order mentor(s).

khani.4786:

I also want that “Termite Shovel” to be a hammer skin too, it looks like a giant wooden Spoon. I’d run around yelling SPOOOOON! >.>

A Norn with an entirely blue outfit, running around with that and accompanied by a human in an entirely white outfit. I’d watch that.

Interesting topic.

The Warden sword and greatsword are my current favourites, mostly because I like the colour and the thinness of the blade. It goes well with my Sylvari Guardian. I find that the crossguards are too big, though, especially on the greatsword.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/5/51/Warden_Greatsword.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/e/ee/Warden_Sword.jpg

I’d like to see some more slimmer or realistic swords, with or without a fantasy touch.

Or maybe something to tell us there was something wrong, like a scream in the distance? The cutscene we got when we found her was already quite something.

And the BLTC will be run by Evon and Mordremoth.

Since I had some trouble finding out where to place this, I decided to make a general feedback thread. Feel free to post your own feedback, of course, it’s a forum.

In my opinion this is one of the best releases yet, even though I think that it has one major flaw that made it just good instead of great, but I will elaborate on that later.

The new zone is fun and it looks amazing. I’ve spent a lot of time just looking at the oasis and the leyline hub. I also like the vertical movement using the Zephyrite skills, it creates so much room for exploration.

Furthermore, I think the storytelling has really improved.

• I’m someone who actually likes the biconics and I think it’s fun to party up with ‘our little guild’. It reminds me a bit of Baldur’s Gate and other RPG’s, even if we can’t always choose our party members. That’s why it was nice to have some choice in who will accompany you in Concordia.
• Being able to choose how you end a conversation really improves immersion. It would be nice to have personality system or something like it come back into play, but this was already a good step forward.
• While Belinda’s death didn’t personally hit me as hard as Sieran’s did, but it made me feel sad for Marjory. I hope she’ll one day be ready to tell us some stories about her sister.
• When Taimi entered Omadd’s device, I actually shouted “NO!” and tried to run after her. I haven’t done something like that in a game in a while.
• And finally, the cinematic was simply amazing. I’m looking forward to seeing where this is heading.

Unfortunately, it wasn’t all great.

• First off, Braham’s mail made it sound like Taimi was in some pretty serious danger, but the only thing I saw when I arrived in Prosperity were the vines. There was no event going on at the time, so I didn’t feel any danger, until I ran out afterward when it suddenly started and my character was quickly turned into compost. I think this story instance could’ve been improved by starting it on the edge or outside of Prosperity and having us fight our way to Taimi with Braham.
• I also feel that a cinematic shot of Prosperity was missing when I arrived (I arrived during a sandstorm, just to make it worse). It would’ve set the scene nicely.
• And then there is the one thing that is still bothering me. How did my character and the biconics know of Mordremoth. The way this was revealed makes it look like an entire part of the story was missing. We ended the last chapter fighting Aerin, but we never confirmed that he was possessed by an Elder Dragon, nor have we ever found any evidence of Mordremoth’s existance or his name, apart from a green zone in the Infinite Coil Reactor and a skill used by Subject Alpha. My character just concluding that it was Mordremoth shattered my immersion, made me look through the forums for half an hour afterward and had me bother someone more knowledgeable about lore than me while they were playing through their own story.

I have a few ideas that I think would’ve made this release better, give it a better story flow overall.

• For one, we could’ve fought the Mordrem without knowing who they are exactly. The PC can’t see name-tags or skill names, so the Mordrem would just be a new threat to Tyria. The PC and the biconics could even make the observation that they seem similar to Zhaitan’s minions somehow and wonder if there’s an entirely new Elder Dragon that has awoken, without actually naming him.
• The rest of the instances would still show the strength of the new dragon minions and not knowing what dragon is behind it would make the threat bigger.
• The ideal reveal for Mordremoth’s name would actually be after the PC has seen the vision. It would actually make sense then, since the PC could have picked up in the vision, like the information about playing a part of the fate of the world.

I’m not sure if you would consider patching the Living Story, or if it would even be a good idea, but then again, I don’t have to make that decision. I hope the Living World will get even better in the future and I’m looking forward to the next chapter. Keep up the good work.

PS. Is anyone else concerned about the amount of money Mordremoth got when he killed Drooburt?

This does not ‘just’ affect one sylvari’s age, it affects the entire history of the Sylvari. The Firstborn are looked up to because of the experience and wisdom they gathered in the years after they were born and before the Secondborn came, which they shared with the Pale Tree and the Dream. According to the original blogpost, from which most of this information comes, the first of the Secondborn is Cadeyrn, so he has to be born before Scarlet. Since Mender Serimon tended to Scarlet when she emerged, he had to be around for a while as well. And what about the master artisans among the sylvari that she is supposed to have learned skills from?

Putting Scarlet’s birth a mere two years after the Firstborn’s doesn’t give them much time to build up their knowledge. It lessens the importance the Firstborn have for the sylvari, like the human Gods after their lore changes, which is one of the main problems I have with it.

Another problem is that it seems like the lore is being adapted around Scarlet again, instead of fitting Scarlet into the world and the lore. Maybe the writers realized that they had her do too many things so it wouldn’t fit in the span of her life, but I don’t think adapting the history of her race is the way to deal with that. The inconsistency was with Scarlet, after all, not with the history of the sylvari.

I know that the ingame lore is the most important and that all lore can be subject to change, but the way it was handled here is appalling. If there are reasons to change it, I want them to say so, even if they can’t specify because reasons. Even if they say they made a mistake it’s still fine, they’re only human after all. Working within the existing lore would still be the better way of doing it, since retconning can be a very crude method.

Draxynnic said it pretty well:

draxynnic.3719:

I’ve seen a few posts supporting the ‘game is the primary source’ line, and to tell the truth… that’s exactly the way it should be. What we see in-game will naturally be the highest-ranking source for information. However, if you look back to Konig’s post – the issue is not so much that out-of-game lore got retconned, but that it got retconned casually. If we’d received a ‘we thought carefully about it, but we decided it was better in the long run to make a retcon because of reason A, reason B, and/or a reason C that we cannot disclose at that time’, that would be one thing. What we’ve been getting is messages to the effect that ArenaNet’s writing team considers anything from an out-of-game source to be something to be thrown out on a whim. It’s not that retcons are happening that’s the real problem, it’s that they’re being treated so casually: “Oh, it’s not in the game then? Don’t worry about it, it doesn’t count!”

A last note, I am not throwing a tantrum or leaving the game. I still enjoy the playing and I like some of the improvements the story part had (maybe a bit less hand holding in the future?). I’m just worried about what this does for the overall lore and the precedent this sets for the future handling of inconsistencies.

RedStar.4218:

But which color will our new golem be ? Personally, I think it’d be pink because it’s the same color as her bow.

Then again now that I really think about it, it’s probably going to be scarlet.

I would prefer dark blue, but I think you’re right. That would make it look a lot like an Inquest golem, though…

Faction changes confirmed!

RedStar.4218:

Hey look at the bright side ! You can always theorize on which one of Kass or Marjory is going to propose to the other or which body part will Braham injure next !

I think Taimi will start a vendetta against Rox’s tail soon. We’ll get a golem and she’ll use Scruffy and then we’ll have a Charr Chucking mini-game.

SoulyD.9125:

I think the point you are missing is that scarlets age is not the first or one of many but the final drop. It doesn’t matter how small or insignificant it is, it is the final drop that causes the system to break.
And sure enough, the statement doesn’t say all lore is invalid now, but it does say that we can’t trust it because it could become invalid anytime, even without us knowing. Taking scarlets age as an example: we “knew” until now, that the secondborn were born in 1308-1309. So 1304 didn’t make sense. But now we know that this was changed but we were never told. Not in-game, not outside of it. So everything that was based on this number just crumbled away. Of course, that 1304 is also not in-game, but on a t-shirt. So is it true? Is it a lie? Is it subject to change? We don’t know. And maybe we never will.
Sure does take away any motivation for theory-building.

Her age is now also in a new book in the Priory library, so it’s an ingame fact. As is her creating the steam creatures, proving the leylines exist and a whole slew of other things.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

Priory Durmand library

“Scarlet Briar: a Brief”

“Scarlet Briar: a brief” by Priory Scholar Donn
(read on)
Scarlet Briar: 1304 – 1327 (Sylvari, Cycle of Day)
(read on)
Her name upon awakening was Ceara, which she eventually rejected along with her roots.
(read on)
She worked with each of the asuran colleges, allowing them to study her cognitive abilities while introducing her to advanced asuran philosophies and knowledge.
(read on)
Other mentors trained her in more technical skills, including Beigarth, a Norn who lives in Hoelbrack.
(read on)
Following her time with an Asura named Omadd, she took the self-made name of Scarlet Briar and severed her ties to the Pale Tree and the Dream.
(leave)

JMadFour.9730:

RedStar.4218:

So if the game is priority, why the hell waste everyone’s time with interviews and short stories and books ?
What’s next Abaddon making a come back ?

Expanded Universe(which is short stories, books and interviews) ONLY sets lore when it does not contradict what is ingame.

It expands, adds to, what is in the game. But the Game itself is the prime source. it has to be.

Whenever the game makes a change that contradicts previous Expanded Universe content, the Game should take precedence.

GW1 is Prime Source.
GW2 is Prime Source.

everything else is EXTRA goodness.

Except that a lot of the lore, the background of important characters, their motivations and several important events found place in this Expanded Universe, making them (almost) a required read to make sense of what was happening ingame. That made the Expanded Universe and interviews a prime source of lore and quite important. We were also told that ingame characters can be wrong, which makes things even less certain.

JMadFour.9730:

my confusion with all the stomping and tantrum throwing, is that this is a MINOR change to be stomping and tantruming about. it is the age of a single character. changing this single character’s age does not invalidate every single piece of lore thre has ever been for Guild Wars. hell, it doesn’t really even invalidate anything at all.

yet you all are treating it as it they just said that the entirety of Guild Wars Prophecies didn’t happen.

I think you guys are making a Shiverpeak Mountain out of a Moledavia Molehill.

The age and birthday of that single character invalidate part of our knowledge of the history of one of the player races. A history that was told in a big lore post on the Guild Wars 2 website itself and strengthened in subsequent interviews. It may not invalidate the entirety of GW lore, but it does mean that anything we think we know, can be or may already have been changed without us knowing.

How can we attempt to create valid theories and hold interesting discussions about the lore, when the basic foundation of facts upon which we try to build them might not even exist anymore?

JMadFour.9730:

I’m sure I’m going to get raged at for this, but I’m gonna be that guy. I can take it.

I’m not understanding what Konig is rage-quitting about, in regards to changing the lore/retconning, in this particular instance. I’m not sure changing Scarlet’s age is something worth quitting the game for. it is a very, very minor detail in the grand scheme of things.

It’s always a general policy, that The Game > Everything else. Books, Interviews, Movies, TV Shows. This is universal, not specific to GW2. You all should know this already.

What happens in The Game always takes precedence over what happens in the Books/Interviews/whatever. When there is a conflict between something said out of game by a Developer, or something that takes place in a Book, and something that happens in the game, you always go with what happens in The Game. The Game is always the prime source of lore, and it always should be.

Just like Star Wars, anything that happens in the Movies takes precedence over anything that happens in a game or book, because the Movies are the prime source of lore.

You go with what is said in interviews and in books, until the Game contradicts it. Then you go with the Game. that is standard procedure for pretty much any MMORPG.

Game Lore > Book Lore > Interview Lore. always.

It is ANet’s job to make sure all three sources do not contradict, but if they deem that it works better ingame for something to be a certain way that contradicts an Interview, then that’s how it needs to be. And it is also ANet’s job to make sure that these contradictions/retcons are few and far between. We’ll just have to trust that this is the case, and there won’t be any mass retcons of everything.

we can be upset and rage about it now, but it won’t change, and we’ll adjust to it. Or we can move to another game, and then rage-quit there, when something that happened in a Book gets retconned by something that happens ingame.

I think everyone needs to have a coke and smile, and take a few deep breaths. the entirety of GW lore is not changing. just Scarlet’s age.

That may be so, but it’s annoying when we’re left with just the old information to work with, without knowing what has changed and what hasn’t. Moreover, this has seemingly been done just to accommodate a single sylvari, who breaks away from all previously established lore. Though I have an interest in the lore, I’m not sure anymore if it’s worth reading up on it if everything I read may be tossed away whenever a writer feels like it.

I can understand Konig’s feelings on this. It’s not the first time something like this has happened (Bloodstones, calendar, etc.), and going by Bobby’s post, I’m sure it won’t be the last. It’s really a kitten annoyance that it’s being said like this.

I may not be someone who joins in on the discussions and theories, but I love to read them. I guess I’ll have to miss that from now on.

Cruril Darksbane.2318:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Cruril Darksbane.2318:

Mechanically it was poorly done, again your pretty much dead if your not in berserk gear or find it a fair bit more difficult than it should be, at least that is my experience with my guardian.

Huh? I’ve been playing it in Soldiers Gear, and while some of the fights were challenging, I did not get the impression that I needed to be in berserker gear.

What class?

A tanky class like Guardian with almost no damage makes the fights without NPC distractions a living hell. Either that or the fact I only have one ascended piece of armor and 2 ascended trinkets.

I just tried it in exotic Soldier gear on my Guardian, with Scepter and Focus as my main weapons and a shout build, and I didn’t really have any trouble. It took a bit longer than when I used my Knight gear, but I never felt that it got difficult.

First time was the most challenging, since I went after him with the GS and Sword + Focus, and I had to jump the platforms to hit. I still didn’t get defeated, though. The Inquest Assassins are more annoying.

I wonder why Concordia is being attacked, since most of the Pact is currently located at Fort Trinity. Would an Elder Dragon perform a symbolic attack? Psychological warfare, maybe?

The thorny vines might be moving along the leylines, given that they have started appearing near other waypoints and the text in one of the new books.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

Priory Durmand library

“Erosion and Waypoint Stability” by Technican Penn

A short technical paper by Technican Penn, entitled “Erosion and Waypoint Stability.”
(read on)
It says, “Some waypoints gradually fail over time, while others thrive. Current theories tie the failing waypoints to terrain that hinders the flow of energies.”
(read on)
It continues, “However, we have not been able to predict where a waypoint will thrive or fail. The specific conditions required for failure remain unknown.”
(read on)
It concludes, “We have no other recourse but to apply a trial-and-error method to waypoint placement. Those that fail are dismanteled to keep the waypoint grid strong.”
(leave)

draxynnic.3719:

Dondarrion.2748:

Tiny question on upcoming LS season and predictions here. With Mordremoth and obviously some sort of elder dragon corruption tied in with the story in Maguuma Jungle now, I was a bit curious when I came across some concept art done by Kekai Kotaki.

There’s a series of artworks dubbed ‘Evil Sylvari’ and maybe they’re just what became Nightmare Court because at that point of drawing the artists maybe just imagined Nightmare Court as evil version of the Sylvari. However, they don’t look so much like any of the incarnations we’ve seen of the Nightmare Court so far – maybe with the exception of some of the Toxic Alliance.

Here’s the concept art:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Evil_sylvari_concept_art_2.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Evil_sylvari_concept_art_3.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Evil_sylvari_concept_art_4.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Evil_sylvari_concept_art_5.jpg

Plus an evil forest plant mob:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Evil_plant_enemy_concept_art_2.jpg

These evil Sylvari distinguish themselves quite a lot from the Nightmare Court sylvari who are less “viny” and less thwarted/transformed, which could seem a bit like the corruption of an elder forest/jungle dragon like Mordremoth’s work.

Could we be seeing a new sylvari enemy and derivates of them like those husks/beasts in the upcoming season of Living World. That would be really interesting, I think.

Hrrrmn…

It seems they went up on the wiki relatively recently, but do we know the history of those images?

They make me think of really old sylvari artwork from before the redesign, when sylvari actually had hair (or something a lot more hairlike) rather than the foliage they have on their heads now. So it may be that someone’s just found something old rather than this being a hint as to what’s to come.

It’s old concept art by Kekai Kotaki and it can be found on his website. About two thirds down.

Edit: Another link, to his tumblr this time and it has a bit of explanation. “Very early concepts of Evil Sylvari and various evil plant-based enemies.”

Thank you, ANet!

I loved it. I explored the world, saw all the creatures and laughed so much that my sides still hurt. I really needed a good laugh.

I’ll actually be sad to see it go, so I’m hoping we can one day have a bobblehead tonic or something else to trigger this.

Curtis Johnson.8456:

To expand more on what I mean by better support, It helps if you think of town clothes as a 4th weight class of armor. Clothing was meant to offer visual options that break the class roles, however we were never completely happy with the way it was isolated from the rest of the game and still felt largely the same. Many pieces could have easily been mistaken for light or medium armor. In many ways it was more akin to building an alt character because town-clothes and armor were so separated. Additionally, every time we added something to town-clothes, it didn’t really help someone building their light, medium, or heavy look. And there was no way to add combat gear fairly without creating 3 versions on the back end (light, medium, and heavy). As a customization platform and sustainable expansion design it left a lot to be desired.

Re-reading this, I think I understand a bit better what Curtis is trying to say.

Basically

• Every piece of armor and clothing has to be designed by (at least) one person.
• When that person, or group, is busy creating the new items, they will be too busy to create others.
• Every time an armor set is created, there has to be one for all three weight classes, or we’ll have people complaining about it on the forums (not that it seems to help much this way either).
• If you insert town clothes into this, it’s essentially an extra weight class that has separate rules to design for and will take time in development that can’t be used to create new armor.

The change will likely mean that the developer and artist’s work process can become more streamlined, so in the long run it would mean we get more customization.

Nike.2631:

Its also my conclusion that the reason they aren’t planning returns for outfits (as opposed to tonics) is that over time those may evolve into something more like the functionality we see today – a collection of parts that can be mix-and-matched both with other town clothes and the various weights of armor. Basically I’m hopeful outfits work as a (non-returnable) placeholder until that process is complete.

Curtis did say they were building this system for the future.

You have to remember that this system is likely built into the new wardrobe system. So if they decide to stop the town clothes/outfit update, it’s highly probable we won’t get the wardrobe either until they’re finished with the next design.

With the old (current) system they would have to test every piece of town clothing with every other piece to make sure it didn’t glitch. With the new one, they wouldn’t have to do that. And it’s always easier to design one complete outfit, that fits a certain aesthetic.

Also, I’m guessing one of the reasons why they chose this system is that, they would be able to create outfits faster. If it’s the same team that builds the armor, though, they might be swamped in work already.

It’s still only the first LW season, though. I’m sure they have more planned for the characters, including arcs focusing on their respective backgrounds and situations. But I know I’d hate it if they rushed things and we would have a bad character story.

For the record, I thought it was a sweet scene and it didn’t seem out of place to me.

It’s been in the game even in beta, I think. I remember hearing it back then as well. One time it was so bad that I threw off my headphones and had to step away for a few minutes to calm my nerves.

It was mainly on my old pc, though. I haven’t noticed it since I switched to the new one.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

ThiBash.5634:

So what does that mean?

-no elementalists, rifle engineers or melee because they have aoe they cannot turn off.
-no mesmers, necors or rangers because they have pets.
-no professions with conditions, ground target damage over time skills or retaliation because you cannot make them stop dealing damage when your buff runs out.

What does that leave us with? Rifle warrior and scepter guardian?

Exactly! And this make me angry. Stop designing the game for only warriors and guardians! I am a necromancer dangit! And I have the right to earn these achievements just like any other class. Stop disregarding my class! Stop disregarding the ranger as well, or the engineer.

Well, guardians have this lovely ability called Virtue of Justice which causes burning on a target. So if it can be failed through conditions (of which I’m not sure if it can, due to the way they phrased it), we have to be careful there as well.

I agree that the other classes need to be given some love. The only thing keeping players from their achieving should be unskillful play, not class abilities and mechanics.

ElysianEternity.6215:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

ElysianEternity.6215:

Also looks like story bits may occasionally land on flickr.

Oh dear. I hope they don’t do this frequently. That’s worse than on the main page!

…yep, I feel you there. sigh

Here’s another one. Seems like they’re going to continue with it, for now.

Haha, that really made my day. I’m surprised that I was this accurate in predicting the event with something I wrote on a whim. It all makes it that much more epic, though. Truly a tale befitting heroes.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I feel honored to be mentioned in such an epic song. I hope we get to sing it proudly as we charge into battle, to defend our beloved city. I’m sure Frozenwind and Angry Bearded Hobo feel the same.

Thank you. I loved working on it and I’m glad I got it done before the patch, even if it did mean I had to forego some of the festivities last night.

KyreneZA.8617:

This is titled “Ode to a Lost Cause,” right?

I for one welcome the fact that it will get rid of that lagfest cesspool, along with the unsavoury row of prostitutes and a naked green Sylvari outside the bank.

It’s more of an ode to three of the great Community Event hosts on Aurora Glade, Daniel Frozenwind, Angry Bearded Hobo and Mad Queen Malafide. I would have included more people, but I don’t know them or their stories yet. Of these three I felt confident I could write something interesting.

It’s not so much about Lion’s Arch, but more the heroes defending it. Having them fight for Lion’s Arch worked well with the upcoming patch, but the setting could just as easily have been modified to fit the Marionette fight.

Heroes gather in Lion’s Arch, bathed in scarlet light,
When enemies surround them all, looking for a fight.
A hasty message is sent to friends, please come to our aid.
Will their friends arrive in time, or will they be too late.

The heroes bravely hold the line, but one by one they fall.
Scarlet’s force has them outmatched, they cannot stop them all.
But then as things seem dark at best and the roaring city burns,
The defenders hear some distant shouts, the tide of battle turns.

An icy fog drifts through the town, it brings a touch of frost.
The enemies charge forward still, but do so at a cost.
Their feet are frozen to the ground and they can’t do a thing,
They fall before a mighty foe. He’s here, the snowman king.

Singing songs while beating foes, an strange clad Norn appears.
His chest is bare, his armor pink, his biggest fear the shears.
He dances while he’s drinking beer, his anger knows no bounds,
And with his drunken fighting style, he quickly clears the grounds.

And lo behold, with clarion call, the Mad Queen, Malafide
Has come to aid the heroes all, her followers by her side.
A sign, a laugh, a battle cry, they jump into the fray,
But will it prove enough to win? We can but hope and pray.

I really like the Marionette as well. It’s really some of the most interesting content I’ve done in ages. It’s fun to cheer people on and try your best as a lane/group, most fun I’ve had since I chanced upon a Wintersday community event on my server, Aurora’s Glade, a while back (thanks again, my Queen)

Ah, I really wanted to join my server in beating Scarlet’s puppet. But unfortunately, some kitten roadworker hit the fiberglass cable and now I can’t do anything besides browse the forums on my phone. I can only hope the line gets restored some time early next week.

I have a question for someone from Anet. I’ve read that this event will last 2+ weeks, does that mean that we get more time to finish the Living Story achievements for this part as well?

Edit: Whoops, mustn’t forget to thank Daniel Frozenwind as well. Thank you, snowman-king.

<Continued>

3. Minions and corruption
Risen spread Zhaitan’s corruption, because those killed while fighting them will almost always immediately be transformed into Risen themselves.
Jormag usually works through his minions, seducing the races with whispers of power. The Dragonspawn however, one of his champions, was able to turn others into Icebrood with its breath.
The Shatterer is said to keep Kralkatorrik’s corruption active in the Brand, so it likely spreads corruption (it’s crystals?).
Primordus can corrupt beings, but does not usually do so.
So depending on the dragon, minions can corrupt or spread corruption. The Pale Tree does not appear to spread any corruption, however. Still, we cannot decisively conclude whether the Pale Tree is a former dragon champion or not from this.

The main problem is that you can argue both ways, depending on the weight you give certain statements made both in and outside the game. And that seems to happen quite a lot when lore is involved.

It’s still pretty interesting, though.

Shadowbane.7109:

You really stopped reading properly. I never stated that scarlet was interested in these factions. Quite the opposite. Notice the question mark at the end of the sentence.

The way you phrased it was really confusing, though. It appeared to be a statement rather than a question, so I for one assumed the question mark was an unintentional error. You might want to keep the other person’s perception of something in mind, before saying something that will probably be construed as a personal attack.

TheNinjaCupcake.3465:

Another item I thought of: This is Konig’s response to some ideas about Sylvari corruption:

Side note:
The main reason why I don’t affiliate the Pale Tree with this all is threefold:
1. Malyck shows no signs of being like the Nightmare Court which, by definition of the Pale Tree being a dragon champion turned good like the all-too-common hypothesis claims, would be the “natural sylvari.”
2. While I believe the Dream of Dreams is being used by Mordremoth to spread his corruption, the White Stag proves that the Dream of Dreams is not unique to sylvari, and Malyck proves that not all sylvari are tied to the Dream of Dreams.
3. There are too many things not tied to the Pale Tree being corrupted (spiders, wurms, treants, grubs).

1. We know almost nothing about Malyck. He seems to be a glitch in the system, unknown to both the Nightmare Court and the Pale Tree. In fact, the Nightmare Court seems to herald him as the Harbinger, given that he has no access to the Dream. If anything, Malyck seems to be a natural-born “Soundless”, but who knows why this happened? It doesn’t disprove the fact that the Pale Tree might be a minion of Mordremoth, given that it’s just one Sylvari born out of the system. Knowing why Malyck turned out the way he did would require knowing more about how the Pale Tree creates Sylvari.
2. I think this is a matter of interpretation. The Stag, Bercillak, and the Shield of the Moon are all symbols present in the Dream that fuel your personal quest, but that doesn’t mean they come from the dream. Since the Pale Tree has absorbed knowledge for 250 years, then she is still doing this, presumably, and imparts some of this knowledge on her young. It seems to be implied that this is how the Sylvari gain knowledge, but if she is only the dream’s caretaker, as she says, how is this knowledge regulated? If it isn’t, then wouldn’t the Sylvari awaken with far more knowledge than they have?
3. Well, yes, there are. The Pale Tree isn’t a dragon itself, it’s a minion at most and just a tree at the least. Corruption doesn’t derive from champions, it derives from the dragons.

Whew, there’s a nice comprehensive argumentation. I think I understand how the quote system works better too, after all that!

To answer your question, I think upsetment derives from the fact that a lot of your arguments seem to take little pieces and pick at them without giving thought to the theory as a whole. For example, your argument concerning the Pale Tree doing a “terrible job” at creating corrupted Sylvari doesn’t keep in mind the fact that the theory is supposing that the Tree is a free will dragon champion. Usually, argumentation concerning a theory disagrees or agrees based on the parameters set by the theory, not by external factors. Those are used as evidence to the contrary, but ignoring or not thinking about the parameters just makes it seem like you aren’t paying attention to what the theory is trying to say. That’s all, not trying to be rude, just putting in my own two cents.

1. Malyck
Malyck did not sprout from the Pale Tree, or she would’ve known him. A Sylvari seer surmised that he’s from another Tree, and that the seed the Pale Tree came from was one of many. He possesses the same virtues the Pale Tree has, loyalty, courage, etc., but not the Dream. So he wonders whether his Tree had a Dream at all.
Malyck also isn’t interested in or drawn to the Nightmare. So this might be a sign that the evil nature of the Nightmare Court is not something natural to Sylvari.
The Nightmare Court is after him because a Tree that does not possess Ventari’s tablet would likely be easier to corrupt.

2. The Dream of Dreams
The Stag is not created by the Pale Tree, but a creature of pure magic and a conduit between Tyria and the Dream. It exists in both worlds, like the Pale Tree.
Bercilak is a Sylvari who turned to the Nightmare, it’s his magical armour that makes him special. That his image is in the Dream is no big surprise. The Sylvari he’s slain are still connected to the Dream, he’s still connected to the Nightmare and it’s said that the Dream can show the future.
The Shield was a sign pointing toward the person who needed the player’s help the most at the time.
As for why the Sylvari aren’t all-knowing, Ree Soesbee has actually told us why.