Guild Wars 2

I’ve made a few posts about this issue already, and this shall be my last one.

It appears A.net are really going all the way with this Ascended gear project. Essentially, they’re now competing with WoW and other similar MMOs for the same audience (that is, vertical gear grinders), but in the case of WoW, it has the upper hand since it had nearly a decade of experience to perfect the vertical progression model. However disappointed I am, I wish them luck, but I have a feeling this will not bode well.

In a way, Arenanet are putting themselves on a treadmill as well: vertical grinders will never be satisfied, and Arenanet will have to push out more vertical content just to go back to where they were before (that is, to get these players back). Yet, if they don’t, they’ll lose more players. It amazes me that they’re willing to throw away their seven-year old philosophy just to fill a “gap” that only exists for some players and not all. I never felt there was a gap, as I never thought about going after a Legendary. I’m sure I’m not the only one who felt this way.

Anyhow, although I felt betrayed by this 180 degree turn of theirs, it did prove to me one thing: the higher the expectation, the bigger the disappointment. I waited five years for this game, and I expected A.net to deliver it in accordance with the promises they’ve made throughout these years. What a big mistake I made; I suppose I should’ve smarten up and be more sceptical of things. Yesterday I decided to uninstall the game and stay away from it. I could’ve just deal with the crap and continue playing, since I haven’t completely finished the game yet (the only dungeon I’ve completed is story mode Arah) and I paid for its content (and possibly Lost Shore and FoTM as well). However, to me this is about principle and dignity, and I’m not giving them up just to get my money’s worth. I just don’t appreciate being lied to. In addition, I feared of becoming another victim to gear treadmill, as once I start grinding for Ascended gear, it’s very hard to go back.

Until the introduction of this patch, GW2 had the potential to become the premiere MMORPG with horizontal progression, just as WoW is currently the premiere MMORPG with vertical progression. Unfortunately, as shown by this thread, the damage has been done. I sincerely hope the developers would come to their senses and revert to their original philosophy before it’s too late.

Izzy may think all progressions are important to GW2, but as said before..

“The man who chases two rabbits, catches neither.”

Urxx.6840:

I wish Mike O’Brien never said in the Forbes interview that they wanted to surpass WoW. Now they are starting to suffer the same fate of any other game that tried to beat WoW: to start to “WoWize” itself, fight on Blizzard’s ground, lose the battle and in the process also lose all those players who were looking for a no-threadmill game because they were sick of WoW and / or its clones.

It’s quite sad, really. No MMO thus far had managed to overcome the superpower that is WoW. Now that GW2 has chosen to attack on WoW’s homeland (that is, to introduce gear treadmill), where WoW has significant home advantage, GW2 has finally sealed its fate.

Chii.2814:

Arenanet, there’s an old saying.
“The man who chases two rabbits, catches neither”

A.net developers seriously need to repeat this quote a hundred times in their head. It seems like they don’t really know what they’re doing at the moment.

fellyn.5083:

Because it’s not a gear treadmill. Yet. It’s one additional tier of equipment.

That is, by definition, a gear treadmill. A gear treadmill is where you either grind for the newest tier and stay where you were before (that is, maximum combat effectiveness) or don’t grind for it and get moved one step backward, both relative to game content. In actuality, you’re not making any progress at all. In other words, a gear treadmill gives the illusion of progression, which is essentially what A.net is doing currently.

It appears getting Ascended gear is going to be a huge grind, according to this article:

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists

I’ll take my leave.

Rarer infusions will probably be much more powerful than that. It looks like my Exotic gear will now be even more worthless than before.

“I love the stats on my Exotic gear.”

Pants.8315:

Actually, the Legendary weapons do have more damage/stats on them:

Legendary >> http://www.gw2db.com/items/63469-twilight << 1011-1117, +182 Power, +130 Toughness, +130 Vitality

Exotic >> http://www.gw2db.com/items/48101-invaders-greatsword << 995-1100, +179 Power, +128 Toughness, + 128 Vitality.

Comparing Twilight to the WvWvW Exotic GS: That’s +16 -17 to damage range, + 3 power, +2 Toughness and + 3 Vitality. Which is actually about the same stats creep we’re seeing in the Ascended items.

Taking that into account, if Anet introduce legendary items for every slot, then realistically Ascended items won’t have had any stats creep at all, they will just match the Legendary stats creep that’s already a feature of the game.

Legendaries aren’t more powerful than Exotics at the moment. That information is wrong.

Naoko.7096:

-snip-

Big Difference. One is vertical progression, while the other is horizontal progression.

Skins don’t affect gameplay, but stats do. Having the “best” skin doesn’t give you any advantages, but having the best stats does. Now, this so called “fashion treadmill” is only a treadmill if you make it out to be, since beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Nobody is required to chase after any existing skin since it affects nothing in the game, but some are required to chase after the highest level of gear if they desire to attain maximum combat effectiveness. And if they introduce a new tier (and in the case of GW2, the Ascended tier), we would have a gear treadmill forming: you either (1) try getting that newest tier and stay where you were before (maximum combat effectiveness), or (2) you don’t and get moved backward as a result. You’re not going anywhere by having any skin.

warmonkey.8013:

Euthil.5209:

Plague.5329:

Is it possible for games to maintain a sense of personal progress without tying that progress to an investment in gear numbers?

Creativity and innovation say “yes.”

No, accountants and execs who look at the numbers in the MMO market currently say “yes”. Because WoW is huge, and the entire market is catering to a single design decision — tiered gear progression.

There’s plenty of other ways to go about it. In fact there’s nothing that says a different type of game can’t be bigger than WoW. Fact is, nobody’s even tried. GW2 was trying — and IMO they were succeeding — but they’re waving the flag of surrender.

Long and short of it? No, there’s other ways of doing it, but no, we’ll never see them. Game industry is ridiculously risk-averse at the moment — RIDICULOUSLY risk-averse, that’s why some certain companies are only producing sequels to existing franchises right now — and the MMO market is even more risk-averse (my completely uneducated guess is because it’s a riskier investment, it’s a larger thing to make and maintain and the accountants and execs get their fingers into things tighter and force “safe” decisions more frequently which is code for “copy this other game that did well”).

So sir, while your answer wins on snark points, it loses on reality points — there hasn’t been any serious challenge to the gear-treadmill paradigm since… GW1. And this. But they gave up. So no, friend, innovation doesn’t say “yes” — no MMO since WoW has really been very creative or innovative, merely emulative.

Makes me a saaaaad panda

I don’t see how that contradicts what I said. Your argument, if I understand correctly, is that there is a way around this issue, but it’s currently not feasible for financial reasons. Yet, you forgot something, which is that there’s no telling what will happen in the future. And thus my point still stands: it is possible through creativity and innovation. Just because nobody has the balls to find the solution right now doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

Plague.5329:

Is it possible for games to maintain a sense of personal progress without tying that progress to an investment in gear numbers?

Creativity and innovation say “yes.”

I haven’t logged on ever since they made that Ascend Gear announcement. Realizing that all the hard work I’ve put into getting full exotics will soon be for nothing, I’ve lost motivation to continue playing. I’ll see how the patch turns out, though.

If getting Ascended gear requires more time than getting Exotics, then I’m leaving this game for good. I’m willing to give them one last chance. I’ve grinded enough to get my character fully decked out in Exotics, and I’m not doing it again. As someone who has played their games for many years (since 2005), I must say it’s a shame it has to end like this.

I bought this game because I was told by them that there will be no vertical gear progression, that everything else after I’ve obtained the best possible gear in the game is purely for cosmetic purposes only. I was foolish enough to believe that they will stick to their guns and keep only horizontal gear progression in this game, just like they did in GW1. I have little interest in playing games made by developers that turn their backs on their own philosophies and lie to their customers.

The “fight” with Zhaitan was probably one of the most (if not the most) anti-climatic moments I’ve ever experienced in a game. It truly wasn’t even a fight, but an execution. how Before I entered the dungeon, I really thought the encounter would be epic, seeing how both the game and A.net hyped the powers of Zhaitan so much. Zhaitan, the Destroyer of Worlds and the Lord of Orr and the Risen, was ultimately gunned down by merely five cannons on a single airship. What a shame.

I wish they would change the way we confront Zhaitan some time in the future. At the current state, Zhaitan has nothing on any major dragon bosses that I’ve seen, let alone Bahamut. Even Zhaitan’s servants put up a better fight.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Why “3 months”? Are you trying to imply that you guys would introduce newer tiers in the future, but only at a slower pace than that?

“Bunker Guardians are absolutely worthless in tPvP. Anyone who thinks otherwise should consider the uninstalling the game.”

“I’m a Thief and I never manage to run away from dual mace Warriors. I think they’re excellent chasers.”

“I think the culling issue with stealth is fine! I mean, if I can’t see them, they can’t see me, right?”

“Legendary weapons are a showcase of skill, not wealth.”

Agemnon.4608:

Euthil.5209:

“I panic whenever I see a Warrior.”

Ahem….

Are you kidding me?

Go roll a Guardian then, if you want a warrior-like class with magic capabilities. We warriors don’t need no petty magics to achieve victory.

“This game is balanced.”

“Hundred Blades is the most unavoidable skill in the game.”

“If you feel lonely, you should enter the Heart of the Mists.”

“A.net never lied in their manifesto. Never.”

“I panic whenever I see a Warrior.”

Whether we’re willing to try out the patch or not is hardly relevant, because A.net already confirmed, in their blog, what we’ve assumed (that is, we must get X in order to get pass Y). We believed A.Net will live up to their promise that we aren’t required to grind for anything in order to have a fair chance of completing certain parts of the game, but now we will be due to the implementation of Agony.

To deal with Agony at the deepest point of the Fractals, you need Infusion (otherwise you’ll never get pass it, as the blog stated: “until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must”), and to get Infusion you need Ascended items. And since Ascended items are better than Exotics and Exotics were once considered the apex gear, chances are getting Ascended items will not be easier than getting Exotics (and getting them was a grind already). That means there will be grind for Ascended items in order to have a fair chance of completing a certain part of the game. That means they broke their promise, and thus we have every right to feel betrayed by them.

However, your argument is valid if, for some reason, A.net design the game so that getting Ascended items is super easy and absolutely not a grind (unlike Exotics). If that is truly the case then I’ll concede.

But I highly doubt it, as that won’t make any sense.

No, I hate the new ascended items.

I just spent gold to replace some of my Berserker trinkets with Knight trinkets (rings!) two days ago. And now they decide to add something that is better than the ones I’ve just bought. I don’t care if a single Ascended item is only slight better than its Exotic counterpart, for I know that when you have a full set of Ascended and compare it with a full set of Exotic (same type), the difference between them in stats becomes much more noticeable.

As a player who’ve been following them since Guild Wars 1, I feel very betrayed and angry by this. I’m not sure if I should continue playing their game, knowing that I’ll have to grind more (to achieve 100% combat effectiveness in WvW) when they start adding more Ascended gear types in the future. I’ve already spent and grinded enough to get my character fully decked out in Exotics (and then further more to balance out my character’s stats). Sigh..

A.net, you need to do a reality check if you seriously think this is the right way to keep players in your game.

I wish all abilities are designed so that they can be used while moving without being overpowered. That would make combat much more fun and fluid. In addition, as others have pointed out, self-rooting abilities have no place in a game where constant movement is crucial for survival. Strategies can still be utilized in a game without such abilities.

Yeah, it’s pretty ridiculous. The bug occurred a few times in WvW today. Like the OP, I had Berserker’s Power. Hopefully it gets fixed in the next patch.

Hardest

1) Necromancer (It’s literally the Shadow Priest from WoW here, with the extra health bars and the insane amounts of condition this class can pull out. It’s a battle of attrition, and it’s usually in their favor.)

2) Guardian (They can do serious damage to me while being as tough as a rock simultaneously. Add that to the fact they can keep burning me. Don’t get me started on bunker Guardians.)

3.) Elementalist (Like the Necromancer and the Guardian, they’re almost unkillable if they’re well-specced and competent. And they can put good pressure on me at the same time.)

4.) Mesmer (They’re not as tough as the three above, but they can really drive me crazy sometimes, especially when they’re in a group or when they cast Moa on me. Pull out Shield Stance with Missile Deflection and the illusions will start killing themselves; finish the job with a Whirlwind Attack.)

5.) Engineer (The good ones are very annoying and difficult to kill, but that’s probably because I don’t know much about them. Shield Stance with Missile Deflection and Balanced Stance are crucial for this fight.)

6.) Thief (Good thieves can be quite annoying, while bad thieves are free kills for me. In most cases, withstand their initial burst and they’re pretty much done. Condition thieves, however, are a different story.)

7.) Ranger (Unless the fight takes place on an open field, I usually try making use of terrain obstacles to get as much of his shots obstructed as possible and thus draw him closer toward me. When he starts popping quickness, pull out Shield Stance with Missile Deflection and watch him eat his own cooldowns.)

8.) Warrior (They’re the easiest due to their predictable nature. I have just enough toughness and vitality to involuntarily swallow their Frenzied Hundred Blades whole and still remain strong enough to take on them. Signet Warriors are free kills, but they hit the hardest.)

Easiest

I have had no problems with glass-cannon Thieves, so far. They are super squishy and, in most fights, will usually start backpedaling once they unloaded all their cooldowns and/or initiatives onto my Shield Stance or Endure Pain. The only time they kill me is when I’m already fighting another player(s) for quite a while.

Haha, that’s awesome. Happy Halloween to you too, Captain.

I remember I used to hate this skill with a passion (goes way back before the BWEs) due to the fact that it removes control over my warrior, but now it has become my favorite Warrior skill in the game (Shield Stance comes close second). It’s mobile and allows me to break the enemy lines and cause havoc, while at the same time providing me a very short duration of invulnerability. To me, it’s one of the best skills to use when charging the zerg swarm or any clusterf— of enemies. I also use it to finish people off, move quickly, or escape.

In any case, it’s one of the most versatile skills in the game.

/signed

A.net, please consider this. I (and I’m sure many others as well) really don’t want to invest 10 points just to make my longbow shoot a bit further.

This occurred to me as well. I was holding on my own against two players with Shield Stance on, but the skill was interrupted when some fat warrior decided to Rifle Butt me from the back. It doesn’t make any sense though, since Rifle Butt is considered an attack and Shield Stance blocks attacks. Or am I missing something here?

I would love to see my Warrior wielding a pole-arm on land in the future. A two-handed axe sounds awesome as well.

I approve of this thread.

Zsymon.8457:

Warriors are easy to use, but it is very hard to actually take down a skilled player, since all warrior abilities can be so easily avoided. If you go glass cannon as a warrior, all that health and armor will also mean nothing, you will die in seconds since the only things that go towards our survivability are the health and heavy armor, which does not actually make a profession more survivable. Survivability has little to do with health and armor.. having high values of those will just let you survive a few seconds longer, but you still die since you have no other surviving tools the way other professions have.

This. Perhaps I’m just bad, but I always feel like I have to be in perfect condition and play twice as hard as my opponent in order to best him.

>implying 99% of the commanders are actually good at PvP

I’ve killed plenty of commanders on the battlefield, even when they’re surrounded by their army. I rarely, if ever, come face to face with a commander that knows how to fight. I used to think WvW PvP is where it’s at in terms of difficulty and intensity, until I started playing structured PvP.

What’s wrong with us getting buffed? We’re a joke in PvP anyway.

I was hoping they would fix Fast hands too. And perhaps Bull’s Charge and Rush.

Yeah, I’ve always wished that they could reduce the damage output of Hundred Blades by 25%-30% (and perhaps increase the cooldown as well) but make the ability usable while moving. At the current state, it can be used effectively only in very controlled situations, as you probably deal less DPS than auto-attack while voluntarily rooting yourself in the process if you try to use it freely. Now, I dislike using the common Frenzy+Bull’s Charge+Hundred Blades combo, as it’s a one-trick pony and I don’t like wasting two utility slots for a combo that has a high failure rate. However, if I bring only Bull’s Charge and use it with Hundred Blades, I could probably land at most 3 to 4 hits with the combo before the enemy dodges.

No glory without Grub, no glory without Durios. Fight to the last zergling.

-Sanctum of Rall

Warrior here. Although I’m very capable of running away from a Thief if I utilize correctly the many gap closing abilities that I have using the Sword/Greatsword combo, I vowed never to run away from anybody. I never ran from a Thief, and never will. It’s just not a very honorable thing to do. As a Warrior, I would rather fight to the death than run away like a coward.