Guild Wars 2

ammayhem.5962:

Oh, and it gets on my nerves how Temporal Curtain doesn’t add time to any Swiftness I may already have.

already confirmed to be working as intended…

Pyroathiest.4168:

Advent.6193:

We can only hope it’s an oversight, silverfire. Using the same build, atm, and noticed that issue. (sobs)

Don’t worry, it’ll be fixed in 2 years. That’s just how long it took them to fix the signet distortion.

Whats this? Pyro being optimistic…?

This will probably get the “working as intended” seal of approval from the devs… we arent allowed to have nice things.

just slap a 10 sec cast time on switching templates… short enough to be worth switching but long enough to be an issue if your caught in the middle of a change.

Silent Shino.7239:

scepter skill 2, decoy and a torch, means that unless the thief is especially good, you’ll win.

just about every build listed in the forums will work with staff as well… most of the condition based ones have it listed in as one of the weapons the build is made around.

Mbelch.9028:

You really think you know a good bit about this don’t you?

It would be difficult to balance every class for 1v1, but it is the best option in my opinion. If you balance for 1v1, everybody in a Zerg can take care of him or herself. They ditched the trinity for a reason.

I won’t go past that. I have valid views, you have yours. Don’t call mine illogical when yours are very similar to mine, just on the opposite side of the spectrum.

No one called your views illogical, they arent. Misguided, probably, filled with an agenda most definitely, but not illogical. They fit perfectly with someone who is not happy with facing things they dont know how to beat yet but is slow coming to the realization that they cant, wont and possibly arent supposed to.

Anet didnt ditch the idea of the trinity, they just renamed it and swaped around how each part is handled. damage is still damage, tanks are now control, and healing is now support. Instead of every class falling into one main role and possibly into a second, they all have a little of each but can build to focus on any role they want.

This has been just about the only important topic in the mes forum for about a month now. I seen valid arguments to 1v1 concepts but at the end of the day they all have one fatal flaw, anet did not build this game on 1v1 foundations. Dueling may be fun but its just not what the game is made for yet people still attempt to fabricate “information” like this to try and influence the devs one way or another.

Are our opinions similar? I cant say. the only point ive made is that balancing around 1v1 is not a good idea in a game like this. All i can say is that close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, and that i will continue pointing out blatant opinion labeled as fact where ever i see it.

This is the profession balance forum, lets balance around things that are actually a thing in the game…

@DanSH

“strongest 1v1 spec” is something that cannot be determined when all the classes are balanced around PvE and small group utility. When the game design is based on a RPS style system, there is always some setup that is stronger compared to another. This post is pure opinion, which is fine, just dont present it as fact. There is no way to determine the “facts” and even if there were a way, unless you work for anet, you would not have the tools needed to find out.

@Mbelch
No one said “zerging” was a game type, but it does work better with the goal of balancing then a “duel” does. When you balance around zergs, wvw, or PvE you can assume you will have enough players to ensure all the needed roles are filled. Its then just a matter of which classes provide which tools and how efficient they are with them. When you attempt to balance to a 1v1 setting you now have to make sure everyone has all the tools, otherwise you end up with specific setups being far more powerful then all the others or very distinct hard counters to any individual. On top of that you have to now balance how much of each tool each class gets or you end up with the same hard counters… the only way not to fall into the trap of 1v1 imbalance is to make all the players exactly the same.

Having fun with dueling is fine, thats what games are for. Dont try to change the mechanics of the game based on a fun but still unsupported game type and no one should be upset when they are hard countered when playing rock paper scissors but they only get to pick one for the entire length of the match.

I normally dont respond to personal attacks but, please learn the difference between skill and talent. the “skill” of this game is knowing how to push the buttons, the “talent” is knowing how to get your opponent to hit the wrong ones.

you all realize that “1v1” is not a game type. “roaming” is not a game type…

the purpose of a list like this is the get the things you dont like about the game nerfed or removed. The problem is that changing mechanics based on game types that dont exist is bad design…

you do not balance mechanics around game types that don’t exist…

you do not balance mechanics in a vacuum…

1)1v1 is not an official game mode, it only comes up through players using specific tactics to create such situations. Changing PU based on 1v1 results is short sighted at best and bad design at worst.

2)you have to take into account the affect of what your changing on everything else thats happening with the class. You cant continually weaken or introduce bugs to one area while strengthening and removing bugs from others. Mesmers need a fix all around, just changing PU doesnt do enough.

@Chaos
the purpose of balance isnt to make the game fun… its to make the game fair. Not necessarily equal, but fair. Imbalances are what make a game a game. Without them two players of equal skill would fight to a draw every time, If you want perfect “balance” play tic tac toe.

Revelations.3154:

SNIP

You miss the point. No one is arguing to keep the status quo, most are asking for just the opposite. Many would gladly use other things if they had the same return on investment as PU builds do. Anet has made a point of pushing the class more and more towards this trait by weakening everything around it. PU is literally our last position of high ground. Between nerfs and bugs, other builds are constant uphill battles to only get similar results. Having to fight your own mechanics into submission is not a display of skill, its a display of masochism

Some have created this code of honor that they expect everyone to adhere to but in practice there is no such thing. People will use what works, and so far Anet has made sure that the only thing that works on a reasonable amount of effort are PU builds.

There is also a false equivalence being thrown around that just taking PU means you dont know how to play or that you are of lesser status which gets us as a community nowhere when we have both thieves and warriors pointing at us to take the attention off of them. Our community has become quite toxic around this issue all due to outside pressures. In the overall scheme of the game, we are talking about a single aspect of a single game mode. Our two main rivals in this aspect have gotten us to argue amongst ourselves and against our own interests to push us out while they are still strong across the board.

Joonks.7501:

And all this talk about the glory days of when people had respect for mesmers because they played builds which required skill is nonsense. Players of other professions have always complained about mesmers because they’re inherently confusing to fight against.

My guildies and I had a long conversation on this topic last night, and during that i heard this sentiment put in a way that made a lot of sense.

When fighting a mesmer, you’re not so much fighting against the skills of the class or the character but actually the person behind the keyboard.

Fighting mesmers seems to feel very personal to some, where losing can be felt on a level outside of the mechanics of the game

WhiteRose.6934:

The problem isn’t that other builds aren’t more viable. It’s that other builds aren’t as easy as PU.

Shatter is perfectly viable. Condition builds without PU are viable. The “problem” is that it’s harder and more risky to roam with this way, and people don’t like that. Players want everything handed to them easy mode, and it seems the new mesmer community is quickly going down that same mindset route.

This is why PU is a crutch. Players do well with it, think it’s because they’re a good mesmer so they try something else and fail. “Well PU is our only viable option.”

No. It’s because while you’re using a build that allows you to ignore half of the classes mechanics, and ignore basic game mechanics (map awareness, smart dodging), you progressively become more and more dependent on the build that allows you to do all of this and can’t be bothered to learn anything else.

This is why I’ve said in every thread about this topic: The type of players that this build has spawned are embarrassing to me and if/when the nerf happens I’ll be more than happy to see them drop the class.

I can see the threads now: “PU build nerf! Mesmer destroyed can’t possibly play moving to warrior.”

Shatter specs are not viable when illusions are completely obliterated in the aoe spam-fest of wvw, dont do equivlent damage in the zerk/phantasm pve meta and are hardly more then glass cannons in spvp caving at the slightest bit of team pressure.

Sure shatters work in 1v1, along with most everything mez can do, so why would you hamstring yourself by not using PU? How do you argue against the players that dont use PU as a “crutch” but as a tool along with “map awareness” and “smart dodging.”

PU on its own is not the problem, its a good trait deep in a not so good tree. If other traits were presented to allow other play styles to return you would see PU fall to the wayside. Right now, its not our only option just the best one for the job.

Chaos.3579:

however even if those builds were brought back to their viable state PU would still be a issue.
…
however it was not used alot and was a rare sight to see
the reason people did not use it was because it was in the grandmaster section which i think was somewhat unjustified. if arena net wanted to promote diversity they should have moved the trait to the master section. not buff it to insanity.

snip

You have made my argument for me.

If the other build types were made more viable, then you wouldn’t see PU builds at all because its very deep in an otherwise low synergy, unfocused tree. It would literally cost too many points to take in other builds, and taking it forces you into a winning but not very fulfilling play style.

Chaos.3579:

the argument is not about builds more so then it is about diversity

pyros argument was “One trait/set of builds has absolutely no significance on the potential diversity of a class,”

although it does not effect “potential” diversity that does not mean it does not effect what the diversity of builds you will see players using when playing the game.

…snip…

the problem with your argument is that its not the fault of PU that its the best option of the builds. The other builds have been trimed and nerfed to the point where there is no point in using them. The diversity has been killed because everytime we find something that works the devs make a point of carving it out of existance…

take it as a blessing, maybe they wont bother much with us. There is a history of changes being mostly nerfs or breaking things that worked…

maybe if once the shatter is activated, the clones get healed and a hp boost, similar to phantasm hp, but they become super obvious like instead of being identical to the mesmer in appearance they turn into swarm of butterflies or something.

Molch.2078:

While we’re at it, raise the illusion cap to 8 and give the clones this clone generation abillity, too

This hero in Dota 2 is called “Cancer-lancer” for a reason…

i would much rather see clones and phantasms separated for our shatter/illusion count then just a straight spam and cap increase.

staff is one of the two weapons mesmers have that isnt having an identity crisis right now. its just as efficient in power builds as it is in condition builds.

scepter 1 already creates clones as the last step of a 3 skill chain, i dont see why a melee weapon couldnt have a similar mechanic.

its not my build, im just here discussing the issue in the hopes of improving my own knowledge.

@Xaylin: all valid points. I understand your position much better now.

10% crit dmg reduction across the board is a 10% crit dmg reduction across the board. the numbers are smaller but everyone stays in the same relative position. The only possible change is shrinking the gap between power vs condition, but the main cause of that gap is how conditions are handled and not because of zerker gear

Wyrden.4713:

actually i wonder about why ppl say this, some classes can do everything we can do better , buuuuuuuuuuuut~ u guys even thought about that ?: they might be doing better ,but we r like 2-3 proffession combine and do everything 3 classes do as a single classes, just slightly lower then the other classes do but we can do em all.

i always wondered why u ppl be like: mesmer is useless, everything we do is crap compared to other classes.

mesmer is pretty flexible and thats why i love playing it

Dont get me wrong, i know that mesmers strength is being able to do many things at the same time, Its why we are so powerful in 1v1 situations. We have so many tools on hand that we just simply overwhelm our opponents. But the question then becomes how many times does that 1v1 situation come up? Unless your strictly spvp or a wvw roamer (very narrow aspects of the game) its not often. So when grouped with others who do specialize in a role, your short comings are all the more apparent.

As for this thread, im just saying its a bit rough on a reasonable build to say its not focused, when that aspect is baked into the class and has very little to do with the build itself.

isnt the current problem with mesmers in general that no matter how we trait we dont really do that thing very well compared to others? Its not all that fair to say a build is “unfocused” when one of the characteristics of the class currently is being unfocused

yanniell.1236:

Do we need that precision on the rabid set? Wouldn’t dire be better?

sharper images – clones cause bleed on crit

thats what the precision is for

Im glad that we were listened to and a bad change was rethought. But i worry when items that were off the radar for most of us (Illusion of Drowning) are the only things that are getting openly discussed by the devs. It makes me think that the planned changes are either so massive they cant discuss them or they are non existent and there is nothing to discuss.

A simple statement of the overall goal of the changes would go a long way to put my mind at ease, or to at least let me understand whats supposed to be happening instead of thinking the devs are just throwing darts.

“Purple-Cheesegate” will not be behind us until the devs show some understanding of the wants and needs of the community… it was never about the changes but the complete lack of understanding about the problems.

Im glad that we were listened to and a bad change was rethought. But i worry when items that were off the radar for most of us are the only things that are getting openly discussed by the devs. It makes me think that the planned changes are either so massive they cant discuss them or they are non existent and there is nothing to discuss.

A simple statement of the overall goal of the changes would go a long way to put my mind at ease, or to at least let me understand whats supposed to be happening instead of thinking the devs are just throwing darts.

This absolutely needs to happen. Some guildies and I just happened to be talking about a similar topic the other night

is any one else bothered that mesmer’s one bunker build is labeled “cheese” while all the others are glass cannons?

Mesmer’s confusion was unique when the game first released. They were the only class with it and it was much more powerful, it wasnt until later that its pvp damage was cut in half and everyone got access to confusion

in order to make most viable builds you need 20 points in 3 lines with a high possibility of missing traits that would help you because they are 20 points into a 4th.

If we are broken beyond the known bugs its most likely because our traits are so scattered.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Increase travel speed by about 40%
Ether Bolt: 100% projectile finisher
Remove Ether Blast
Damage increases by 10% for every condition on the target

That should do it.

Shall we start another thread about Scepter 2?

we probably shouldnt start a new thread, but instead just continue to the other skills here and ask the mods to rename the thread. The whole point is to keep everything together so the devs can actually look at it without searching the whole forum. with that said.

Mods could you please rename the thread to be about all scepter skills?

If scepter 2 was a little more responsive it would feel better, sometimes i hit the key and theres a long delay between then and when the block actually goes up. It often ends with me getting hit in the face then wasting my block.

Hell if all the skills on scepter just activated a bit more crisply i think the weapon would just feel better to use even if it didnt actually make the weapon any more powerful or defined

i remember having this conversation before at some point. I think someone suggested making one step of the scepter chain a short range aoe with a chance of blast finisher. I dont know how balanced that would be, but it would make scepter interesting and helpful in groups

Zaxares.5419:

-immediately votes “DEATH”-

Trust me, Taimi, this is for your own good. There are some things man- er, Asura, were not meant to know.

Blasphemer! All knowledge is part of the eternal alchemy and therefore must be thoroughly researched

A major focus of the last balance pass was to limit how long vigor would stay up without having any boon duration across all the classes. After that pass mesmers still could maintain almost 100% uptime.

We were a tall nail, it was only a matter of time before we were hammered.

Shanaeri Rynale.6897:

They should separate your WvW server of choice from your PvE servers. Keep the same WvW restrictions for your WvW choice and remove them for PvE

you mean exactly how guesting works?

anyone looking to PvE can easily guest to wherever they think is better to PvE when ever they want to. The only people who have an issue with server transfers are those who want to ride the coat tails or other servers.

Wasbunny.6531:

It must also not cost anything to switch except for the initial template addition, which should be as hard to acquire/expensive as crafting an ascended item to continue to evolve and customize your character long after reaching level 80 (horizontal progression).

…

Make extra build tabs a one time upgrade, like a bank tab or commander tag. Make it expensive, make us work for it but make it a permanent evolution of our character. Allowing characters to progress beyond 80 not by power but flexibility is an idea that to me would be a game changer and I dream of the day it gets implemented.

The mechanics are simple: Out of combat only and with a small channeled switch animation, swaps build as well as armor/weapon sets and skills.

…

The ways to earn an extra build tab could be interesting too. Maybe something that needs to be crafted from hard to find materials, a bit like ascended items. This would ensure the tabs aren’t just bought but earned through playing multiple aspects of the game.

If there is no limit to how many extra build tabs you could have you could continue to refine your character well past the time it takes to settle on any cosmetic changes or having all gear be best in slot.

I think there should be greater restriction to when and where you can swap templates.

I agree that having multiple trait templates available would a nice feature, and that obtaining that feature should be no easy task. But I do not think switching templates should be as convenient as just getting out of combat. You should at least be required to go to a specific area before you can change templates. If you can have as many templates as you like that you can swap into or out of when ever your not directly engaged you would just switch to your best build per situation, and none of your decisions would matter since you could just change them when ever you dropped combat for a moment.

Your linked post made me come to this conclusion. You really should be slightly less effective if you choose to change your objective in the middle of what ever it was that you were doing or if your opponent catches you out of your element. If you choose to roam, then you miss out on the safety and profitability of the zerg. If you choose to zerg, then your at the mercy of those who roam if you get separated. You should not be able to seamlessly go from one to the other getting the benefits of both while risking the consequences of neither.

With that said, the place where you go to swap templates should be relatively safe and easy to access. In WvW it should be something you can build in keeps or SM, and a permanent one in spawn. Outside of WvW maybe any place of power with something added to LA that would qualify. You wouldnt need to channel anything, just be within range of the object and you can swap.

there needs to be a way to tell which zones you have cleared and how much of zones you have completed with out having to go to that zone or trying to pick over the world map

CelestialStormZ.5102:

Oh yes. Those server alliances are very real. This is ET and JQ having tea while ganging Henge.
http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/StormofBladeZ/GW2%20WvW%20HoD%20vs%20Others/

That is hilarious to see myself in your pics…

i think people are just failing to realize the change in the game and are falling back on what they know from former games.

Give it time, theres a large influx of new players (read: non-beta people) and this will sort itself out as people learn the game

never seen Ruin or Team Legacy in WvW and Henge has still been rolling… held more then 2/3 of the world as late as last night. so….

first tip, sometimes it takes a while for someone to see your post.

secondly: A combo is performed by combining the actions of two skills in order to obtain an additional and/or greater effect. It requires that a combo field is interacted with by a combo finisher.

combo fields usually fall into two types, aoe fields and walls…

combo finishers have several types, projectiles, leaps and bursts…

if your skill falls into either of these categories it will be noted in that skills tool tip.

finishers that originate from, finish in, or pass through a combo field will apply the secondary effect.

the type of effect is determined by the field, while how that effect is applied is determined by the finisher

example:
player a puts down a aoe field with the poision combo effect.
player b shoots a projectile through the field at an enemy on the other side.
the Poision combo effect will be applied to the enemy

i like greatsword, but only when i have someone to tank for me. damage is ranged based and if the mob gets a chance to close the fight can turn into a bit of a bog.

@ grodder

lolz, i use just about the same thing. I swap a pistol for the Torch and laugh as i get jumped, make the other guy all but kill himself, then pop him with a stun to finish him as they try to run away.

learning is just that, learning.

I think this game does a great job at allowing new players to learn because it doesnt hold any expectations of you and it allows you to explore most of your options rather early on without any fear of “messing it up.”

Now if you’re looking to be taught by the game then yes its a little lacking because this game does not hold a players hand for very long (read: at all). But thats why this game is a massively multiplayer online game; you’re supposed to be social, you’re supposed to talk to the other players. This game leaves absolutely no reason not to help your fellow players (unless you’re in a pvp battle =D). And while that may not be what you want to do to get the teaching your looking for, thats what you need to do to get it.

But in the end you really can not do it wrong in this game.

(p.s. chain skills are just that, skills that work as a chain. you do the first, then you follow it with the next, and follow that with the next)

i would suggest putting “ideal” or “best” builds out of your mind.

There are some traits that are better for different situations, but the game is really more about your skill sets. Find weapons and skills that you enjoy playing with, then take the traits that favor those skills.

Do not chase enemies into their base camp.

No matter how badly your team is routing the others, entering an opposing spawn is insta-death.

One thing ive seen people forget about is the active dodge system this game employes. People have some measure of control over avoiding attacks, and there are many many skills along with active dodge that allow players to prevent damage.

Plus when a player is downed, they are immune to all damage for a few moments. This is something that i have seen many others forget about.

Players who are out of range will also sometimes pop the immune message.

Like Erauntien said, you should probably look into moving to another server. I believe jade quarry is one of the highest population servers, and in this early stage of the game you are literally queuing with just about everyone else on the server.

never too late for crafting.

Having sold some mats may slow you down a little since you may have to buy/farm some things to progress. But even at max level you still have potential to gain from crafting even if its just by selling your wares in the trade house