I don’t get where some of you are getting this whole omg just putting them for the sake of gayness would be bad! Obviously. No one is saying they should just throw characters—any characters—in with bad backstory or whatever just because. You don’t to assert and reassert that omg they better not put the gay in just because. Shouldn’t that hold for anyone they decide to add, regardless?
The Asura believe in a concept that is scientific in nature, not deity based. The Norn believe in animal spirits, yes. Again, no gods. The Sylvari do not believe in the gods and want proof of the Six gods’ existence before they decide what to think on it. The Charr do not believe in gods. They believe faith leads to bad magics that make everything go boom in a bad way. It is perfectly possible to be an animist and have no deities in your belief system at all, which is what the Norn have. The Asura believe in an ultimate design, not deity centered design. With them it’s more like the refinement of all the sciences taken to the utmost level. SOME humans still believe, though if you hang out in DR you will see this is not a universal thing. The ones who do believe may have faith, but the fact is their gods are absent. That amounts to a very atheistic game.
just have to agree with legendary armor. want it so bad.
I LOVE the gigantic eyes one. Now my Engi has an adorable little bug face. <3
I love that Sylvari are obviously not human, that they’re plant-y. Elves are boring and overdone.
Male light especially is outright ridiculous a lot of the time.
A way to organize and plan outfits, save dye schemes, and so forth. Have all acquired skins go in to a bank like the Zenith skins do, able to be withdrawn at any time instead of taking up bank slots.
A roleplay panel that lets you enter rp relevant details/character description that can be toggled on and off; if it’s on anyone else with it switched on can see what you wrote.
Challenging PVE content that fully utilizes support, dps, and control. I don’t think it’s possible to do this without complex, instanced, raid level content. A group of randos is never going to be successful at a fight that intricate, so it makes Anet lean towards high hp punching bag bosses.
More skins in general, ideally as a reward for said challenging pVE content. More Syl cultural that doesn’t look like a mess of crumpled leaves.
Sure some ambient or personal story stuff would be nice, but what’s on my wish list is iconic characters. Being openly gay isn’t the “defining” trait of a character but it is important. Another thing people hardly ever say about straight people. Imagine “I just wish their heterosexuality wasn’t their defining character trait” coming out of someone’s mouth.
I also just have to say I think Kasmeer is the best character in the game so far. Team Kasmeer!
Another idea is that if there are story things that happen in raids, make it like the current cut scene npcs so anyone can watch those bits. Then you don’t exclude non raiders from story content.
The fired the initial dungeon team? Wow. Any idea why that happened?
@SkylightMoon exactly my point. There’s plenty of casual stuff for people to enjoy, so why not some tough PVE content for the people who are in to that? You can’t please everyone all of the time; so what if people QQ over it a little? People do that for every single aspect of the game.
@Tanith
Thank you
Yeah I know the lore behind the charr thing and I think it’s really interesting that they’re taking that road, it’s just not a very common or usual one. Most people in the U.S. are moderately to very religious, so it is a big risk to make such a game where the gods are absent or even nonexistent.
But see that’s the thing, I shouldn’t have to devise my own challenges to that degree should I? Oh do naked Lupi runs…well, that just shows how little challenge is actually built in to the game in the first place.
I am so bored! I mean, not so much that I’d quit the game because I have fun just messing about with dyes and the like, but I miss that feeling of mastering a difficult raid fight. I’d almost do it for very little return. I get that casuals have a place in this game. Hell by some reckonings I’m casual. But really they’d make a lot of money off more serious players if they catered to us too. I’ve spent hundreds in the gem shop and I’ll spend hundreds more. Hook me up, Anet pls
At first, I was against them. Running on the gear treadmill is not fun, and if you run small guilds like I do it’s a giant pain getting ten people (or god forbid twenty five) who are competent and can take direction together.
However, the amount of complaining I have seen about a very bog standard simple fight (the holo) I find myself here begging for challenging PVE content that doesn’t actually reward you unless you succeed. I know we have some open world bosses and I think that’s interesting. The problem arises, though, when it’s a fight that requires coordination but you have to use whoever shows up. We need some instanced raid difficulty content (I would prefer if it only needed five people), desperately. Right now, the focus is on dps to the detriment of literally every other potential role. Having instanced content allows for far more intricacy than open world, because it assumes you have a regular group. A group of randos can’t handle complex content, period. But, a group of friends can. Raid style/difficulty level content opens the door for actual utility for support and control classes.
And besides that, there is a not insignificant portion of the PVE player base that wants a challenge. I think it’s great that GW2 is less about progression, progression, progression, but I am hurting for a challenge here. And another suggestion is to make all the raid rewards purely cosmetic. People don’t get gated out of content they legit need to progress, but those who want to tackle something hard get to look a little cooler, or different.
tl;dr PLEASE ANET CHALLENGE ME MORE
I would even be happy with just one of the pair being human, I think, though for reasons stated above I am highly in favor of human/human.
Yes I am a big fan of things having far reaching effects, and Scarlet impacted almost all of Tyria when you think about it. What about a Sylvari more like Sieran? She was energetic, even bubbly, but still cared and did her job.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the bit of a dandy thing, it’s just when the only gay characters are mincing stereotypes that I get mad. (Looking at you Zevran, you terrible, terrible character)
Agreed! Very unique and cool. Though I suspect they might keep it unavailable to keep Scarlet herself unique in the eyes of the players.
@Vexander I like that idea. Taimi sounds perfect for the Asura, wanting to replicate the genius of Scarlet without resorting to her amoral methods. It would be nice to see a younger Sylvari too, since both Caithe and Trahearne are sort of sticks in the mud.
What people don’t or do not want to realize is the concept of heteronormativity. Hetero stuff is assumed to be the default, the correct way to do things, the natural way people exist. Therefore people don’t notice straight relationships the same way because they’re just assumed. It’s a symptom of privilege that every single gay relationship sticks out like a sore thumb.
Is that enough hetero relationships for ya? Did ya notice the introduction of Rox’s deceased mate? There are hetero relationships around, people just don’t look for them apparently…
THANK YOU. How can privileged people be so kittening stingy? It’s nasty and petty and small minded. The one of THREE WHOLE GAMES I can think of that has consistent female authority figures and prominent gay relationships, and people can’t handle that? Think of all the times I have to sit there and swallow another straight romance, because it’s the only thing available and I want to experience the romance aspects of a game. Think of all the girls and women playing this game and many others who want to see themselves reflected in a positive light, instead of as an ornament, or the manipulative one, or the damsel in distress? After EONS of being in power relative to everyone else, straight cis men can’t give over a little? I’m sorry for being so heated but after DAYS of reading that kind of commentary, my heart hurts. Why must we always content ourselves with scraps? You don’t feel empowered straight white cis guy? Really? How much media oriented specifically to you do you need before you feel happy and important enough? And it’s so blithe too because you know somewhere inside that the protests of people who don’t have your advantages will only ever get so much attention, that you can freely toss our hurt and concerns and needs to the side with little to no impact on your life or your enjoyment of SERIOUSLY ALL THE MEDIA that strokes your balls daily.
Ugh.
Are you kidding me? Literally every other game ever is full of male-dominant power fantasies. It still isn’t enough for you, though? Like when there’s finally a game that has many female characters (but also still many male ones) in positions of power and authority, then uh oh, can’t be letting the world not completely revolve around men for once.
I know this word sets off a lot of alarms in people’s heads, but sheesh, talk about not recognizing your privilege. If “too much feminism” means “men and women are more or less equals in this game” then I’m a proud feminist. Bring on more feminism, anet.
Speaking of, why does the idea of women “bossing you around” upset you so, but men bossing you around doesn’t? Women shouldn’t be allowed to outrank you? You always have to be dominant over them? Please.
If you want “male empowerment,” all you have to do is go and play literally any other game.
As for Marjory/Kasmeer, well, let’s just say that most of these discussions wouldn’t even be happening if it weren’t between two women. Just because they’re both attractive women doesn’t mean they’re “fan-service” or “forced,” sheesh. Couples occur in real life, I dunno why some people are so afraid of seeing romance in their games. Particularly healthy, non-abusive romances. Just because caithe and faolain are troubled and emo doesn’t make it better or more realistic writing.
[quote=3724617;Dubbleyew.1029:]
No personal offense meant, but I don’t think some of you realize how hurtful it is for people to assume LGBT inclusion is some soulless political ploy, or that if there’s even a hint that there might be more than one gay relationship in a story, it’s “shoving it down [your] throat.” I realize that gay rights is a political issue, but gay lives and relationships are not. They’re real and have all the same complexities and intricacies as straight relationships, and they’re as valid. The assumption that their only reason for existing within a popular medium is for the devs to get some kind of social justice points is painful.
Why does it bother you to see gay relationships? Does it make you feel alienated? Now imagine how I feel, as an avid gamer, where almost every single game asks me to accept and empathize with a hetero relationship. I have nothing against hetero relationships and there have been many that I have loved and supported. But to then turn around, when it’s a gay person’s turn to see themselves reflected, and say now don’t get any ideas that is going to be the norm…well I find that very discouraging. Why shouldn’t there be a game, for once, where LGBT people are common and front and center? Would that really be so offensive?
It’s like an authority figure waving a finger in your face like, don’t you dare think this (in this case Kas and Jory and arguably Caithe and Fao) means you matter.
And really GW2 is already pushing the envelope in other ways. It’s a VERY atheistic game. The internet kind of skews how common atheism is in the U.S.; it is still FAR more common to have faith and religion than it is to go without. Yet the major races in the game either have no gods (asura, sylvari) have absent gods (humans) interact with spirits (norn) or actively punish members with deity or faith based ideas (charr). And yet there is little to no uproar over that because the vast majority of people on the internet espouse atheist ideals.
I’m just saying, please think of the people and their feelings behind the issue. When you say inclusion is just for politics, it’s all so politically correct, it’s a smoke screen for real issues etc it invalidates a whole group of people who are already struggling.
Now if you just don’t like romance in games at all, that’s a different issue and worth debating. I love romance in games and I think it’s a natural part of an epic story, but there’s certainly lots of room for disagreement. I feel it breathes life in to the game and makes me care about what happens to the people in the relationship.
Hey I have nothing against charr! Gay romance for everyone! It’s just less challenging when it’s portrayed within the non-human species because it can be written off as oh well, who cares what the non humans do.
I agree somewhat. Attractive lesbians sell games and the average gamer is a straight male, sooo it can come off as fan service-y. However I do think they did a fair job of making their romance feel genuine. That said what I really want is a human gay male romance where neither party is a stereotype. I just posted about it in this same forum. I hesitate to call lesbian characters completely fan service. Lesbians deserve representation too. But gay males will always be more ‘edgy’ in the gaming world and I want to see Anet deal with that.
One you see for ten minutes is not plenty in my world.
I know that you want human couple, but Sylvaris have plenty of gay males couple in the story.
The thing is we do know quite a bit. All the evidence we examined. The short stories. The living world. The contributions of the NPC.
Scarlet is the epitome of genius and madness are two sides of the same coin. She went too far, and in my opinion was introduced to the part of her that knows she and the other Sylvari are dragon minions. The Pale Tree tried to warn her away, knowing that without her influence Ceara would go mad. This plays in to the idea that the Pale Tree (and perhaps other trees like her) are keeping the Sylvari safe from dragon influence.
Scarlet ignored this and went in to Omadd’s machine, where the dragon took hold. Her vision of the vine wrapped around the Pale Tree was not, imo, Scarlet herself but the dragon. When she got out her purpose became walking Mord. She forged Alliances by claiming she would give each group something they craved. This is where she got all the tech and shock troops required to form a big enough distraction from her drilling.
I mean what more is there to know? Caithe’s connection, yes, and confirmation about dragon minions, but they’re going to draw that out because frankly it makes for more and imo better story if not every single detail is spelled out in a single update.
I’m mostly in agreement but I also don’t want to wholly dismiss lesbian relationships as fan service, though I do protest the fact that there are some pretty big aspects of that. Still, at least Kas and Jory are portrayed as interesting and as a legit couple. They even [spoiler=scarlet cut scene]got the iconic scene of Kas crying over Jory, thinking Jory was dead. [/spoiler] That’s a scene usually reserved for straight romances.
I love Kas and Jory, but they’re not exactly breaking the mold. I think conventionally attractive women in a lesbian relationship is a lot easier for most people to accept. However, what I personally would love to see is a gay male relationship in the spotlight, where neither party is a stereotype, i.e. where neither of them is expected to play ‘the woman.’ or act flamboyantly. I’d also ideally like them to be human, because I find that other species don’t really ‘count’ to the average person.
Good job Anet on inclusion so far, just another hopeful suggestion from a queer player who is desperate to see gay men in an actual romance, as opposed to portrayed negatively or in a way that’s oriented around sex.
I think you’re mistaking Anet pandering towards its audience for them trying to go for more inclusion.
They’re doing the lesbian thing because they know a large percentage of their customers are young males — and a large percentage of them like to see exactly that.
But to come back to the point : gay relationships are probably harder to correctly write and as annoying as it is, let’s not forget that Today’s society is more likely to not mind a lesbian relationship compared to a male/male couple.
This is exactly my point. I think Jory and Kas are nice enough but they’re a lot easier for the average gamer to accept. As for why I want humans well, it’s for this reason too. If they’re a different species it’s easier to put in the Other box. Like oh, who cares they’re plant people whatever.
And yes in the Green Knight storyline you see a gay male couple for like twenty minutes and that’s it.
I love Kas and Jory, but they’re not exactly breaking the mold. I think conventionally attractive women in a lesbian relationship is a lot easier for most people to accept. However, what I personally would love to see is a gay male relationship in the spotlight, where neither party is a stereotype, i.e. where neither of them is expected to play ‘the woman.’ or act flamboyantly. I’d also ideally like them to be human, because I find that other species don’t really ‘count’ to the average person.
Good job Anet on inclusion so far, just another hopeful suggestion from a queer player who is desperate to see gay men in an actual romance, as opposed to portrayed negatively or in a way that’s oriented around sex.
I agree. I enjoy them more on the creature or plant side of things, though of course I understand that they’re meant to be humanoid too. I think that’s one of the things that’s great about them. I just very much don’t want them to turn in to elves with some leaves stuck in their hair. MOAR PLANTY/FLOWERY/FRUITY!
As an aside, I really do love the sylvari concept and would hate if they became more humanoid than they already are. The plant concept is something that should progressed, not regressed (even though I did pick the more conventionally “pretty, plain, and minimalistic” faces—for all of them). I’d also think that the Pale Tree’s siblings’ children would look even less human (with Malyck looking as he did, with shrek-ear mushrooms growing off his forehead) and as they should, since they’d be even further from their influence (however this mechanic of physiology is being played).
Keep up the great work (and awesome attitude), Ms. Kristen Perry!
Especially love the face with the huge crystalline eyes! Nice to see such effort lavished on my favorite race.
*Spoilers* MIND BLOWN right now! A++++ ANet
in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath
Posted by: HumaCarrionEater.8254
Also loved the creep factor at the very end
**Spoiler** The lack of choice in the end
in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath
Posted by: HumaCarrionEater.8254
I’m sure we’re going to get those answers. Scarlet wouldn’t have told the truth anyway.
Yeah, killing Scarlet before we get any real answers, that seems like a mistake. I actually thought it was a little anti-climactic. This was their chance to redeem Scarlet as a villain, to give some satisfying answers, to explore her fall from Ceara to the person she was when she died. I wanted to know more about her struggle with Mordremoth, more about her descent and more about Scarlet as a person. Instead we get Braham’s silly comment and the shoehorned love plot (really? over a year of this villain and more prominence is given to a “progressive” kiss scene than what is given to the motives of the character this whole thing was about?). Now how are we supposed to get satisfying answers? Unless the Pale Tree’s connection was restored with Scarlet in the end, how are we supposed to see more about Scarlet?
I personally don’t care too much about illusion of choice (I like choice) but it would have been better if I could at least attempt to hear what Scarlet had to say.
**Spoiler** The lack of choice in the end
in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath
Posted by: HumaCarrionEater.8254
Honestly though, I think choice has become sort of overrated. Bioware titles did some great things there. I think they’re the stand out gaming company when it comes to that. But then it became almost a fad to cram choices in to every single game, even when they weren’t needed. See the end of Deus Ex Human Revolution, a totally terrible imo ‘choice’ ending.
**Spoiler** What did scarlet do?
in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath
Posted by: HumaCarrionEater.8254
Because she ignored literally all warnings to the contrary and the Pale Tree couldn’t protect her anymore. Remember the bit where the Pale Tree is trying to warn her away from discovering the truth? And the whole bit about it being something inside Scarlet herself? That Sylvari are dragon minions and the Pale Tree is protecting them from the influence, maybe.
What if…
The Sylvari are to Mordremoth as the Undead are to Zhaitan…
That theory has been thrown around many times. The best reasoning may be that the Sylvari cannot be corrupted by other dragons – since they are already minions of another Dragon.
Problem is, other Dragon Minion can be corrupted by another Dragon, Sylvari can’t they just drop off dead if a dragon tries to corrupt them. The question is. Why can Mordremoth have influence over Scarlet, while other dragons can’t. They are not his minions by nature.
There are still enough questions about the Sylvari and the Dream and I think it has to do with the Dream, getting Mordremoth a hole in the Sylvari anti dragon firewall.
**Spoiler** What did scarlet do?
in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath
Posted by: HumaCarrionEater.8254
Sylvari are my absolute favorite and I am completely stoked to see where this goes. Looks like those ideas about Sylvari being jungle dragon related just might be more than mere guesses and I can’t wait to find out more.
*Spoilers* MIND BLOWN right now! A++++ ANet
in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath
Posted by: HumaCarrionEater.8254
this is what I came here to say!
WELL DONE ANET. I didn’t like this whole thing at first, but it really paid off and I am totally satisfied with how things are going so far.
Oh and thank you for not pulling some silly redemption nonsense out of your kittens.
Rox X Braham forevah btw, get on that! :P
I love the idea of the living world but with a couple of exceptions, I do not like the execution. I miss the big box expansions.
I think to me, the majority of the living world updates have felt like the same shallow conflict repackaged several times over. How many times can we fight OOOH WEIRD ALLIANCEZ ? I respect what the team is trying to do. I think I would just appreciate maybe fewer updates even. Every two weeks is a lot.
What I don’t understand about the arena design is why it isn’t the same as the place where you fight Scarlet. That’s a perfectly open, viable floor plan that wouldn’t screw you over.
the only thing that bothers me is how quickly you can face plant with a single mistake, if only because it doesn’t leave much opportunity to learn the fight organically.
I can’t for the life of me find a source about whether the masks are a permanent gem store addition. Can anyone confirm? Thanks.
This is nonsensical. It is part of their existence. It’s like asking why humans bother walking upright when other animals do fine on all fours.
But why Sylvari so need this dream and connections? Other races live good without.
Seriously the farming is out of control and is leaving players like me in the dust. I like rewards but it’s way out of hand.
The only way to fix champ farming and get people off the Zerg train and spreadout is if Anet fixes champ drops so that champs only drop one loot bag per day.
I love DEs and it bothers me to see Anet saying there’s no interest. I think some of the content has been delivered in such a way that players don’t even realize its been implemented. I also don’t need a huge bag of coins dropped on me for everything I do, either. I do pretty much all the DEs I encounter. I hope Anet isn’t drawing their assumptions solely from this forum because there are plenty of players who don’t even come here.
It is not that they don’t have the dream, per se, but that they may have different dreams and purposes. Trahearne hints at this if you meet Malyck as part of your personal story. There are other Trees and presumably each of those Trees may see a different dream, or different part of the dream.
Sylvari think of themselves as distant cousins with a fuzzy sort of predisposition to like each other, and that’s it by word of Anet.
Sylvari don’t have predetermined fates. Those with Wyld Hunts have specific tasks they are meant to accomplish but their paths are by no means laid out for them. There are many ways to reach these goals. The Sylvari way of living is not a terribly dogmatic one and they even view the tablet as guidelines rather than hard and fast religious type rules. They have no gods or goddesses and are very clear that the Pale Tree is not a goddess.
I disagree with Evans, there are more sylvari than just those from The Grove, and those sylvari do not have the dream, and they seem to be just fine, except for the one guy with amnesia who tells us of the other sylvari. I do wonder how much empathy sylvari feel towards one another, as the dream certainly enhances it.
My problem is that this revelation of sylvari having predetermined fates, I don’t like that so much, even if our characters are predetermined to be heroes.
Frankly after having read her story I think she’s lying to herself. She’s clearly some version of Nightmare Court, what with all the spiky vines and other tells. I think she’s delusional and believes she saw the eternal alchemy when in reality she’s just corrupted. The whole genius and madness are two sides of the same coin thing.
Also I think the Nightmare Court is full of it in the first place. The tablet is never presented as some kind of rigid dogma, but as a set of guidelines. It’s not like the Grove Syl are a bunch of fundies. The Court just uses whatever it can to justify it’s cruelty.
“But I reject that call. I reject the notion that that I must choose the Dream or be lost to Nightmare. The forces that push us this way or that can be redirected. They can be set against one another to the detriment of both, and now I know how.”
Any ideas what Scarlet can (but obviously she can do nothing with game) do with sylvari and what happens with race without pale tree and court?
Yes I think it’s a bad thing that farming is rewarded over finishing an event as intended Anet needs to rethink their rewards, their core players, and how players can achieve prestige items like legendaries. As long as things are time/mats gated people will try and farm. I think it negatively impacts the community, too. Everyone is suddenly very negative and punishing those who want to actually complete events.
Yeah I mean, I find her very stereotypical but still fun.