I understand people’s concerns with our past, but it’s not healthy to always be in fear of nerfs, or talking about nerfs, etc. GW2 is an MMO with multiple game modes now, and split balance is a thing.
The thing is.. necro could be a good class in PvE if WvW and PvE were splitted. All the call for nerf of the scourge are based on PvP and WvW, nobody will complain if our spec or whole profession is strong in PvE.
I honestly could accept a nerf if our base class was good (it isn’t even “average”) and the other specs that are way more OP than scourge got nerfed to the same level (I don’t believe it will be the case).
Edit : just look at warrior, for exemple : heavy armor, same HP as us, better dps, better defenses and better support. This is getting ridiculous. Meanwhile, we will drop our shroud (our only ‘defense’) and people want to deny us the right to be efficient at one thing… yeah for the double standart.
Well “pets” for the necro is really just a set of utility skills, much like spirits, spirit weapons or something similar. It has no connection to the shroud or weapon skills. Using 1/3 of a trait line just for that is too much, a pure minion master is stuff for an elite spec dedicated to it.
A pure minion master should be doable with core necro. Doable and efficient.
That’s the most obvious thing of this class and a good part of it’s appeal for new players and veterans of the previous game. It’s also iconic and the first thing most people think about when you say “necromancer”.
But our minions are so lame that NPC necro (Traherne and Marjory, for exemple) are using overpowered/bigger versions of them to be cool…
Could have sworn Nightmare gave 20% general condition duration.
That’s why you need to check your facts before considering others to be so clueless they don’t understand how runes work. (after all this time playing GW2, I’d be ashamed to not know that, seriously)
“probably either”? i just told you what it will use. 100% viper gear with nightmare+trapper, malice and geomancy. that way you get 100% on burn, torment, poison, 120% bleed due to trait overcap.
this ofc accounts for the scourge expertise traits.
i will gear scourge like this during tomorrow’s stress test to make sure its 100% viper. its possible maybe there will be 1 armor piece sinister, im not sure of that
I said probably because they might still change a few things, you telling what it will use is great but you don’t know that.
And it’s very unlikely you will cap all of those conditions you listed all together. the scourge trait only adds 15% expertise max.
15% (225 expertise) from 3 shades + (7% of your condi dmg as expertise) from Fell Beacon.
Edit :
Plus it won’t be a good idea anyway, the main conditions are burning and torment.
Depends of what you play. If you invest in corruption, there is bleed and poison. Plus the non-damaging condi.
I think it makes sense to lower decay in pve only.
This would make sense if WvW was not balanced as a PvE area. The issue is that Scourge is strong, very strong in WvW as it is and any PvE buff can make it totally broken. Well, from what’s been seen it’s already broken op in WvW and nerfs to the “PvE” (read WvW) side are already bound to happen at release.
Barrier will probably be hitten hard especially in the “PvE” area because none should be able to grant 160k extra health to a golem or a lord in WvW.
Wait, PvE and WvW aren’t split like PvE and PvP ?
PvP balance only affect sPvP, that’s nothing new. WvW is and has always been looked at like a PvE area. That’s why there are player that still say that reaper’s deathly chill is too strong.
Scourge that have effects that can affect 20 targets is designed with WvW in mind where you usually have those 20 target to support or those 20 foes to reckt, where you have plenty of boons to corrupt or plenty of condition to cleanse.
And the PvE balance will be done accordingly because this is in this PvE area that the maximum potential of the scourge tools will be reached. WvW being a PvE area is illogical yet this is a thing and I don’t think anet is ready to change this anytime soon.
Ok, thanks for the information. I didn’t really pay attention to WvW since I do mostly PvE and a bit of sPvP from time to time.
And I fully agree with the bolded part, that choice of design makes no sense to me.
I think it makes sense to lower decay in pve only.
This would make sense if WvW was not balanced as a PvE area. The issue is that Scourge is strong, very strong in WvW as it is and any PvE buff can make it totally broken. Well, from what’s been seen it’s already broken op in WvW and nerfs to the “PvE” (read WvW) side are already bound to happen at release.
Barrier will probably be hitten hard especially in the “PvE” area because none should be able to grant 160k extra health to a golem or a lord in WvW.
Convenience. Your sandshades are (probably) summoned spirits of the dead. There is plenty of sand in the desert. It’s a cheap and clean way to give them a “body” and allows them to interract with the world around them.
I don’t think so. Every GM of this track has its appeal, it just depends of what you are looking for/the kind of build you play.
Sand Savant is the “I don’t want to manage shades and still get the benefit” trait.
Demonic Lore is the “DPS” trait.
Feed from Corruption is “sadistic kitten” (or PvP) trait.
A trait is too good when you don’t feel like you are loosing something nice when you take it. (Like pre-nerf Vital Persistence) I don’t think this is the case here.
While the actual Superior Rune of the Scourge is pretty lame, this one is too strong.
But I have trouble believing you are not being sarcastic with this suggestion.
If you are serious, remember that a runeset isn’t the sole property of the profession or spec that give it its name. And that with only 4 runes, that’s 50% condi duration. You can get 20% more with the two remaining runes and a signet. And probably reach 100% duration with the favorite condi of any profession without much effort or dedicated gear.
I’m personally excited for synergies between corruptions and F2.
I tried this during the stress test. It was pretty nice. Not really OP, but having another way* to turn those condi into something beneficial was nice.
*Beside condi transfer.
Condi transfer can be a double edged knife though. I’ve lost count of the times I’ve tried to transfer condi, only for it to miss and I end up dying because of it. More actual removal is a nice addition.
Or your target is dead and there is no one around.
I’m personally excited for synergies between corruptions and F2.
I tried this during the stress test. It was pretty nice. Not really OP, but having another way* to turn those condi into something beneficial was nice.
I didn’t think about it when I was playing during the demo, but : Has someone tryed to use Lich Form while playing a scourge ? Are the F1-F5 skills still available and working in Lich Form ?
It would likely go a long way to add a grand master trait to soul reaping that allows utility skill usage in shroud (add it to Death Perception, maybe), and add another elsewhere in soul reaping that removes the incoming damage reduction and converts it to an outgoing damage bonus.
Do we need a GM to use our skills in shroud ? While I don’t think it must be baseline, it could be a minor in Soul Reaping.
I like the tradeoff of the second suggestions. We should have more things like that.
What I always wanted from Plaguelands is to work like a plague, allowing enemies to spread it around. Basically, the existing Plaguelands, but ground targeted. Enemies walking through it or being struck by the initial cast would expand Plaguelands effect as as trail behind them when moving for a few seconds
I hear people QQing in the WvW forum of an alternative reality where the skill works like this. This could be absolutely devastating for zergs in this mode and an instant target for the nerfbat.
But I like the idea of something that spread like a plague. Some sort of effect that could be strong on the first target and weaker on every subsidiary target. Something like this :
Tertiary target : weakness, blind, bleed
…
Until there is no more condi or target. Can’t affect the same target more than once per cast.
This is just a brief descreption of the idea. My actual mechanical visualization was a delayed area explosion that creates the initial Plaguelands zone and players struck by that explosion would get the spreading debuff.
Not necessarily everyone that gets in contact with the AoE, since that would be really snowbally.
This is still potentialy OP in this kind of confrontation. The ability to affect so many players with one skill and the fact that it will probably change the way people are zerging (no character standing close, to reduce the potential of the skill to affect other targets, other consequences implied by a less packed zerg, etc.)
We already have two melee weapons (dagger & greatsword), do we need more ? We are a scholar profession, after all. And axe is our ranged power weapon.
I’d personnaly make Unholy Feast a blast finisher, we lack those, I agree with you on raising the health treshold, not sure on the exact value.
A bit of cleave on Rending Claws could be good too.
What I always wanted from Plaguelands is to work like a plague, allowing enemies to spread it around. Basically, the existing Plaguelands, but ground targeted. Enemies walking through it or being struck by the initial cast would expand Plaguelands effect as as trail behind them when moving for a few seconds
I hear people QQing in the WvW forum of an alternative reality where the skill works like this. This could be absolutely devastating for zergs in this mode and an instant target for the nerfbat.
But I like the idea of something that spread like a plague. Some sort of effect that could be strong on the first target and weaker on every subsidiary target. Something like this :
I like the suggestions for the spectral skills. Always thought they lacked something and there was lot of missed potential in this category.
I’d like every type of utility to be at the level of corruption skills, at least. Summon Bone Minion could summon at least 3 minions (like in the video preview of the necromancer. That was something I was really disapointed about when I learned the skill for the first time. “Where is my third minion ?!”), 4 could be too much.
I don’t know either if Reaper’s Touch needs to change, I think it’s okay as it is.
I agree with you on the rest. Pretty nice suggestions overall.
So this is a topic about an unrealistic situation (40 scourges, really ? Pit them against 40 of the same class, at least. Why not 40 Deadeye, just to see how many second they stays alive ?), with an edited video as “proof” (so worth absolutely nothing since it’s edited) and that’s not counting the fact that it was done during the demo where plenty of bugs weren’t fixed and people were learning their new spec’…
Is this really the reason a nerf is called ? You seriously think the devs will fall for that ?
That’s the most obvious troll I’ve ever seen.
This. They also each proc’ the traits that are activated on auto-attack with the shroud, but in a area around them, every time you activate an F skill (so, Dhuumfire, Unyielding Blast, Reaper’s Might,…)
Some other “on entering/exiting” shroud seems to work through the shades too, but I can’t confirm this part.
Shades are relay to your powers, meant to affect a larger area. With careful positioning of your shades, you could probably have a great control over your surroundings.
I see the reaper as a spec’ that is meant to be slow and steady, the problem is that it is just slow. Too easily interrupted. And not terrifying at all.
If a reaper gets its hands on you, you should think “crap ! I’m done” and that could justify the slow part as a form of balance.
My youngest daughter had a similar problem with HoT. She only plays around casually and didn’t have any character even close to max level, but was dying to be able to glide. We decided on a class she could best play at level 80 without going to much into it, which turned out to be the necromancer (your choice may vary depending on how deep into the combat mechanics of this game you’d like to dive). She boosted her newly created necromancer to level 80, played the introductory story steps, and unlocked the mastery system and the gliding mastery before going back to her lower level characters. Occasionally she pulls out her level 80 to play another story step, but mostly just enjoys gliding on her lower level toons. She’s already planning to unlock the raptor once PoF hits (she’s played the demo where she unlocked the raptor in the first story instance), so her low levels will be able to ride, too .
Sounds like a good way to enjoy the content.
To the OP : My view on the matter is “play the story from vanilla personal story to LW3 – EP6/end of HoT (depends of what you have unlocked) once normaly. It’s worth it. Then skip it if you want.” Knowing the context, the characters involved, etc. will make PoF more enjoyable.
If you don’t care about the story… Ignore this and rush to the kind of content that interest you. This is a game, you should do what you consider to be fun.
I do like the new zone.
Some monster seems to be pretty op ( like the beginning of HoT ), but mostly because i suck with Ranger class, i guess.
Ps: i also mistaken one of the new monster for a lazor engineer, then went afk and got killed lol.
edit: guess i signed up for a “race” without having a raptor.
Made my day. Thanks for this.
On topic, the feedback : beside a very short lag at times (happened 2-3 times and was barely noticeable), everything was smooth.
And thanks Anet for letting us play the new elite spec’ again. While my necro/reaper feels slow and boring, the scourge feels awesome. It’s efficient, add a layer of complexity (and something to learn) with shade management and really nice opportunities. I really love that playstyle.
@ Kaladel, Staff is not really a condi weapon. Its rather weak for condi users.
I tend to consider it a condi weapon because of the damaging conditions on some of the marks (plus the condi transfer on #4 and the projectile finisher on the AA). But you are right, it’s rather weak.
No CD reduction on marks ? They are too slow for what they provide (at least in PvE) and Necrotic Grasp needs more damage.
You seems in favor of making the staff do more, I want it to do things more often.
If I had to buff the staff, I’d make these changes :
Necrotic Grasp: Add one (or two) stack(s) of torment.
Staff is a condi weapon, so it makes sense to put condi on the AA. The name of the skill match the idea of putting torment. And the weapon synergies well with the scourge and the concept of area denial/control.
Mark of Blood: Add the stack of bleed lost in a previous nerf back, at least in PvE.
This mark lacks impact.
Reduce all marks cooldown by 20%: Every profession has something like this and it makes using a staff less boring. (this could be added to a trait, I don’t particularly care, as long as it’s there)
I don’t want to be mean, but this will never happen.
Adding more minions (in that kind of quantity) is very bad for balance (some necros will use old minions + new minions to have a ton of bodies between them and whatever want to kill them) and probably for the health of servers.
Edit : Well, the infinite minions meta didn’t crash servers (as far as I know ?) so I may be wrong on the last part. But the balance issue persist.
The 6% works with the qT build, cause they have max duration for the only condi they are interested in, and already have geomancy. There is nothing else that can improve their dps beside this signet.
The suggestion to add condi on dagger is such a blatant attempt at power creep that I can’t even believe anyone would think this a serious suggestion.
The problem with redditors like you is your strange, and slightly bewildering idea that this is a)power creep and b)bad. No idea why you guys even have this power creep meme, because it’s really, really silly.
If something is bad and unused, buffing it is not “power creep” or whatever word salad you want to shout, it’s bringing it up to par.
Necromancer in GW2 doesn’t know power creep. We’d really like to know what it looks like, it seems interesting. (seriously, that’s not power creep if your profession is so behind the others it’s a joke)
My friend plays condi berzerker warrior with rune of the undead and trailblazer armor/trinkets… So he is specced to facetank everything.. And even without main power stat, only condi damage & toughness his bleed and burn stacks are 1.5 times higher then mine are on viper/carrion combo..
If that is not laughable I don’t know what is
Just look at thief. Their dagger is what our’s should be and the deadly arts trait line is what a good condi oriented trait line looks like.
Curses is clearly crap next to it. I’d take a copy of Deadly Arts with bleed (instead of the more powerful poison) over Curses any day.
Just a word about the scourge : The source of “OPness” some people see in this spec’ seems to be the result from a pair of bugs. For example :
The tooltip of shade skills says explicitely : “Targets affected by this ability can only be affected once per cast.” That wasn’t the case this weekend and that lead to huge stacks of burn and torment from multiple shades affecting the same targed.
Same for Desert Shroud who proc’ed Dhuumfire multiple times instead of once.
So… Once those (and other) bugs are fixed, scourge will be far from OP.
Punishment skills also felt pretty lackluster, but others have already mentioned that fact in details.
That wasn’t meant to happen. It perfectly says on the tooltip that a target can only get hit once per pulse regardless of how many shades are on the player. Now it makes sense why everybody is flipping their eggs like crazy over Scourge.
Oh. That explains it. If it’s meant to work like this, the statement made by the devs in the video about elite specs makes perfect sense (the one about not piling our shades on the same target).
Edit : and we are not really OP, just bugged. I prefer that by a large amount, ’cause that could mean we will not be nerfed to oblivion. Just fixed.
Seconding this.
Open world, PvE, PvP and WvW are different animals and what applies to one doesn’t necessarily to the others. (Look at warhorn#5, for example.)
Personally, I say the signet’s perfectly fine; stuck to be only useful when trait combined with Signets of Suffering, but otherwise fine.
No. Some (most ?) of our skills are crap and not “fine” and we should admit it. What good do you think you are doing to your class and the community playing it by minimising the problem ? I can’t understand this kind of behavior.
That’s another one of the reason why we can’t have nice things.
People will learn to stay out of the shades area, use their superior mobility and/or kill us from afar. We’ll stop being OP in PvP the minute they learn how to manage the spec’.
At last! A staff rework idea that doesn’t completely gut its current purpose or make it crazy overpowered. Very nice ideas.
Same here. All of this sounds reasonable. Maybe a bit too reaper oriented (a little torment somewhere could make the staff viable for both spec’), but pretty good otherwise.
(after all this time playing GW2, I’d be ashamed to not know that, seriously)
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