Personally the thief profession is made to excel at pve and be not really efficient in pvp. Since HoT (even there, since the reworked traits tree) thief lost competivity which is bad for the profession and I think anet will try to address that. It’s one of the only class (probably mesmer too) that is Esport worthy because the other are completly passive atm.
For passive offense the Mallyx elite is a better example since with sword 3 you’re at least pressing a button and asking yourself if it’s a good time to use it (such as evading dragonhunter traps while keeping your dodges unspent) whereas Mallyx elite applies torment merely for being in the opponents’ presence.
Yeah but they added so many of these thing thats its so unfun to play atm… And lots of those are meta now.
Is it just me or the “high risk high reward” took a xX360NoScopeXx headshot in this HoT expansion pack? I feel like I just cannot play zerker and get away with outplay and superior fire power like I did before. Its so unfun and frustrating to play spvp at the moment.
Everyone and every meta class got massive passive defense aswell as passive offense. By passive defense I mean ridiculous uptime of protecition, lots of invulnerability, alot of block, toughness gain on hit, heal on hit, etc… And by passive offense I mean Rev sword #3, rev might stacking, ele fire attument overload and such…
It kills intelligent plays and excitement. Having to fight for 5 min until someone die in duel is reallly REALLY boring…
Hey guys, protection stacking is too strong so the answer is to let thief prioritize it to get massive protection uptime as well!
No, just remove protection stacking from other classes so you can burst classes easier. But the answer isn’t so much the protection uptime as it is the block and evasion uptime on new kitten with elite specs and revenant.
Stealing protection only apply like 3 sec of protection… And it reward boon stealing.
Hey thanks for the new builds, I’ll try those too !
I actually found a fun build aswell. I’m still trying to tune it so it’s far from being perfect, any suggestions would be welcome.
I’m still hesitating between quick draw or Light on your feets. First one is pretty good on 1V1 situations, but the piercing arrow and extra condi damage is nice during teamfights.
I’m also testing for the sigils if I should go full bleed (agonie ) or use also torment.
For the amulet, I’m testing also things such as wanderer, sinster and viper. I like rabid for the moment for the extra toughness.
I would drop sharpening stone for quickening zephyr. It is way more versatile skill and if you attack from the back or the side you will output those 5 bleeds stack as fast as the sharpening stone.
Also maybe give go to the sigil of frailty + sigil of torment on your shortbow. Since vulnerabilities boost condi dmg and the sigil has a 1 sec internal cooldown, the vulnerability might get cleansed protecting some of your damaging condis. And the torment stack is also one more condi that might get cleanse.
For pets, Lynx + wolf would be good… Wolf is a must have for alot of situation (aka safe rez, safe stomp, kiting or chain cc with the knock down).
I’d like a disguise skill. Keeps you from getting aggro in PvE, and changes your colour in WvW.
Or better yet, a disguise skill that makes the thief look like a rabbit… or moa bird.
Of course I’m kidding, lol.
For day-to-day content it’s useless.
Raids haven’t sounded yet, but you’ll need Ascended gear for that anyway.
People keep posting on the raid forum that full ascended is only 2% better than exotic armor with ascended trinkets and weapons, so it may be of some use. We all know how “deftly” anet can sense what 2% is…
Maybe that 2% is in the same statistic section of the ranger’s pet doing 30% of all his dmg…
Rev benefits from having all the latest design ideas/animations and since its a new profession does not carry any baggage with it (i.e., it was built on a clean slate with today’s game iteration/meta in mind.) Its still unfinished though (e.g. placeholder water skills) and the class could use another few passes to smooth out the rough edges.
Rev feels like a mixture of Thief (e.g., energy mechanics, high damage, mobility, evades/active defenses), Warrior (good hp, heavy armor) and Necro (looks and lore-wise). If this appeals to you then I’d suggest giving it a try.
It feels very much like a second generation profession rather than being on the same tier as the other professions I’ve played (Ranger/Mesmer). To illustratte, when you cast Swiftness on Rev, you don’t hear a horn playing like on Ranger, you hear a sonic boom .
To me it looks like a non-AI dependant ritualist from GW1. Which is good, because we know what is an AI dependant class is… (along with necro MM and turret engis).
If you buff the damage of this skill, you will not see any zerker spec around. That happened before the ‘ol backstab/CnD nerf. And Anet don’t want 100-0 from thief (DH its ok… or mesmer).
D/P thief is in a good spot. Other spec, a bit less…
Everything is pretty much broke now. Only the developers think otherwise.
I don’t think I recall seeing a more borked expansion pack than this – it even gives Trials of Atlantis / DaOC a run for its money.
Pure marketing stuff… Broken elite specs force people to buy the xpac to be effective (or quit). They gonna “SHAVE IT OFF” (well known anet shout) in about 6 months (as usual…).
Disagree. Sword is ok atm except maybe for the auto. But from a PVP point of view, even the auto is useful (as you should never auto as a ranger, except when your target is fleeing and does not retaliate. Which is why the sword rooting + in built leaps help ALOT).
I feel that that verdant etching is too strong to give up for ns. I run staff / s+ wh for pvp so I have access to swiftness anyway. Seed of life being a light field makes verdant etching even stronger as I can use Astral grace or call of the wild to blast it for area retaliation.
Dont waste carion bound on that… Use it on Celestial form #4 for a heal, while healing.
Guys havent tought of the teleport trap shark, followed by LB ring and to add some spicy salt, hammer ring. How can any class without stability with instant cast (2 class only have this) can survive that…
Remove Daze on trap too. Put cripple. Down them to ranger state see how it goes…
Who wouldn’t be happy with the birds to have the swiftness in F2 and the actual F2 handled by the AI?
lulwut? This is a terrible change. Nerf application of go for the eyes and Wilting strike by 400% for some superfluous swiftness?
You can also use the F2 on hawk/eagle to cancel out the kittenty swoop and swiftness skills as well as use them right after a normal attack for added burst.
No thanks…
You can cancel by pressing F3 as far as I remember (dawg master race…) and then press f1.
Don’t ever take a fight 1v1 vs a damage guard. Unless you are playing against pure scrubs.
The only time to fight a damage guard 1v1 is if you know help is on the way and you have to just survive for like 30 seconds. In which case you blind and dodge in between doing poke attacks.
I dont know too much about thief to give any tips how to counter DH however I do understand that theives have a tough time.
I could imagine however that the biggest difficulty lies within two traits. Trap mastery like you mentioned and Hunters Determination which places a trap on cc and provides aegis.
so basically you want to avoid that situation. engaging with a hard cc without stability on will take away your engaging advantage completely and give the DH time to react to you.
so basically i would advise on fainting a burst. prepare dodges, time them well let the DH blow CD on traps, reposition and engage again. you are probably better of trying to take a chunk off the hp from distance. If you run in traps that you have seen place its your fault. thieve has enough blinks, shadowsteps back evades to nullify traps.
The standard thieve cookie cutter strategy doesnt work on DH no more as is.
the incoming daze is a pointer when to dodge also I think its pretty challenging to react to that.
Distance is, sadly, no option vs the LB. snipe ability is way too strong for that cooldown. And even for a daredevil spamming dodge to avoid that + the traps is not enough lol..
How am I suppose to play vs a DH as a thief? I would post on the thief forum but… They would shout NERF THEM out loud (I’m not against that tough… DH is kinda imbalanced imho)!!!!! Any tips to give? Does anything from a thief irritate you?
My concern atm is daze on trap, It’s hard to retaliate when you go in and instantly get daze + take 1/4 of your hp in one trap :S
When we gain alacrity, the f2 seems to recharge faster BUT only the cooldown animation. You can press all you want, it won’t activate. Am I alone to have noticed that?
The elite was made for pvp, using it in PvE is pointless to say the least
Daredevil is bad for both PvP and PvE.
In PvE it just doesnt do enough to warrent being used and other specs are better
In PvP physical skills are to slow to be used period and you lose to much taking it over other specs.
Thief is in a horrible position at the moment.
I like stun breaker block physical skill… At best it block all ranged dmg, at worst it stun a melee fighter… Saved me alot of times from enemy thieves!
I agree with this, it open a whole new world for ranger. Pet would be a tool rather than a random factor most of the time. I could see alot of use considering how diverse the pets are! Ex: Drake tail swipe blast, moa healing, bird swiftness on demand (for travelling), etc.
The celestial form should be like the water attunement for ele. You don’t go in water and expect the little extra dps to finish a fight. You go in water because you needs to get your health back on demand. And that’s what the AF doesnt do correctly… When you or your team needs it, it might be on cd or not even charge. And the most important quality of a healer is to heal on demand… Which is not the case at all atm.
So I would be very happy to have only a cd and no AF generation. Or it could retain AF generation (fixed of course) and function like a Death shroud (enter whenever you want, drains slowly when using it and when you leave, it stays at the level it was and not dropping to 50%).
Overall this new mechanic doesnt make sense at all since the base weapon dont have anything to generate AF like the staff do which is poor implementation of an elite spec.
To me, it sounds like they recruited a hunter/trapper and glued a medic insignas on his forehead.
Ok I made a quick vid of me soloing and also randoms attacking the spvp isle “lordroom” npcs. I just kinda go crazy and button smash and am generating 100% AF in ~17-27 sec if I math right.
Will someone with pvp skill be able to achieve similar or better results in an actual pvp match? We wont know if people cry druid is trash and wont attempt to make something of it.
Wow 25secs to generate it without allies and getting the multiple hits from barrage on multiple targets. 25 seconds. Too strong. Cant believe people don’t think that is sufficient generation.
Solo you don’t need CF more then once every 30sec. There is just so little to do in CF that requires you to be in it frequently or for a long duration. Watch where I am forced to cast TU while in celestial form. There just isn’t enough pressure/defensive skills to merit being in it while solo and the npcs arnt dying any faster.
So according to you, we should build around the CF so it is usable???? None of the other spec needs to be build around their new features. Why would druid be the only one?
Ok I made a quick vid of me soloing and also randoms attacking the spvp isle “lordroom” npcs. I just kinda go crazy and button smash and am generating 100% AF in ~17-27 sec if I math right.
Will someone with pvp skill be able to achieve similar or better results in an actual pvp match? We wont know if people cry druid is trash and wont attempt to make something of it.
2 teamates and TU. Nothing to prove there. Plus, you use staff.
If you are running solo or duo its going to charge slowly. Celestial Form is not meant to be a reset button.
If people would like to see Celestial Form become more reliable beyond +5man content maybe instead of AF generation they could just have CF start recharging at beginning of combat on ~15sec cd. Once off CD it can be used for ~7sec? When it ends it goes CD again. Leaving combat it is disabled.
Since when a elite specialisation needs to have some friends around to work? None of the others spec have any requirement on how to use theirs… Why ours? Too stronk? well it could balance the 3 years of ranger being last at everything.
now some of you guys are changing your tune. most of the complaints had to do with not generating enough AF for the avatar. being dependent on the staff is an entirely different issue. perhaps they want us to be.
And they claim to try and promote build diversity???? I mean it makes no sense. Unless they give the ranger a complete overhaul, that celestial form aint gonna work at all.
Client code hasn’t even been out for 24 hours yet it is the end of the world and the sky is falling. Give them a bit of time, it will sort out.
Granted, I will say we probably knew this was going to be the case anyway with only one public beta weekend compared to the others. However, go visit the other profession forums and you will see similar threads.
Oh well.
False lol. I just checked all other forum and they dont really complain the way we do it… We filled up the first page with “Celestial form QQ”…. Others have like 1 or 2 max thread that QQ.
And following our my experience of ranger:
1st gutted , last fixed (if we can call that a fix).
What I don’t like about it is that they dont seems to even try to care about the class. They don’t communicate with the ranger community of their intention. At least if we had some sort of message about willing to change the ranger (and now druid) current state, it would be better. Lack of communication = bad company marketing.
+1 I would really appreciate a list of the druid changes post BWE3.
They gave a list of improvements to Celestial Form. They left out a minor detail, though: you can’t actually get into it anymore!
Druid entering celestial form is a bug. Not suppose to happen ever. Ive sent a bug report that I have been able to enter it once during the time I played. I hope it will get fixed asap.
Once again you answer trough hate… Sigh… I just came here asking only to be convince that im wrong and all I get is a bunch of haters. Thats a lovely mesmer community you got there.
You’re coming in making wild accusations and expecting us to believe you and like you? Please, regain touch with reality. If you want anyone to take you as something other than a troll, you need to provide solid proof that you’re not lying.
100-0 people all the time? Great, take a video and prove it.
More stealth than a thief? Great, take a video and prove it.
Ranged dps rivaling ranger? Great, take a video and prove it.
Since these are all lies, you won’t be able to, but at least trying to do so will maybe get the point across to you.
Where did I said i can 100-0 all the time? It is situational but I have seen carrion gourdian get insta gib by mesmer…
For the more stealth than thief… the stealth uptime of thief in a fight isnt that big. So it is comparable.
For ranged dps, ranger got his dps down by quite a bit since they removed alot of major +% dmg. Mesmer with the GS GM trait that stack might can probably achieve such dps. And there I dont really count the burst DMG on top of that.
Also the fact that you straight up says it is all lies from the start without providing any source isnt really helpful to the discussion.
In a discussion, the burden is on both party. I gived my insight. You need to give back.
Lol, you call that insight? I call it blatant misrepresentations of reality. We’ve all done the math, seen the math, played the class, done the bursts, experienced the reality. We know you’re full of it. We don’t have to provide proof, we just have to sit here laughing at you.
Since you like analogies, here’s one. This would be as if you went to a cosmetic surgery conference, say on hair transplant surgery. You somehow snuck in the back door and made it on stage. Then you gave a 20 minute presentation about how everyone has been doing it wrong, and the proper tools of hair transplant surgery are a rusty nail to create sites, and a steak knife to harvest the donor grafts. Then when all the other doctors called you on your bull, you cried “THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU TO PROVE THAT I’M WRONG!!!!1111”.
Ridiculous.
Once again you answer trough hate… Sigh… I just came here asking only to be convince that im wrong and all I get is a bunch of haters. Thats a lovely mesmer community you got there.
You are misunderstanding my statement. I roughly said, “I come with some insight that mesmer is a bit OP mainly because the kits is too well made compared to any other class. Discuss”
Its like the king looking at his treasure and saying im poor I only have a few thousand gold pieces! While the peasant or artisan might be happy with what they have. But when they change place with the king, they don’t want to go back to the peasant/artisan life.
There is only one king, Lord Helseth. The rest of us are peasant mesmers. Get the facts straight.
I also hate the fact that players think their own experience is the best gauge of balance.
At least use some proofs from higher level plays(like ESL tourney) to back up your claim
Someone started that by saying some of you had thousands of hours of experience. I showed that experience means nothing by saying that. It was only to show how stupid that sounded like. Thanks to approve
You once again didnt read my post. I mentionned how priviligied the class feels like from a stranger to the class.
And you didn’t read his.
You made wild, totally inaccurate claims about what you can accomplish with your mesmer that make you feel so “privileged,” and he pointed out that they were not true.
Make realistic claims, and you’ll perhaps get a realistic response.
But lie to us again, and you’ll just get the boot to the face again.
The only realistic claim I could do is agree with you all by what it seems. But its not what my experience dictate. You guys are getting so pumped with your emotions that doesnt even bother to bring in argument. You are saying my arguments are unfounded? Prove it and I will agree with you. You are playing the same old song (IE unrealistic claim).
You’re the one claiming Mesmer is OP, the burden of proof is on you :p
All you did was list a bunch of features a Mesmer has and shout “OP! OP!”
In a discussion, the burden is on both party. I gived my insight. You need to give back.
And I never shout OPOPOPOPOPOP… you read my argument like it is because its what you think it is. It is not. I just want to know, from person that understand the class why they would think it is balanced.
I’ll help you out since you are not able to do so…
Mesmer are not OP because they have a blatant weakness to conditions.
You once again didnt read my post. I mentionned how priviligied the class feels like from a stranger to the class.
And you didn’t read his.
You made wild, totally inaccurate claims about what you can accomplish with your mesmer that make you feel so “privileged,” and he pointed out that they were not true.
Make realistic claims, and you’ll perhaps get a realistic response.
But lie to us again, and you’ll just get the boot to the face again.
The only realistic claim I could do is agree with you all by what it seems. But its not what my experience dictate. You guys are getting so pumped with your emotions that doesnt even bother to bring in argument. You are saying my arguments are unfounded? Prove it and I will agree with you. You are playing the same old song (IE unrealistic claim).
Also some comments are really offensive. The mesmer community image suffer alot from this.
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