Guild Wars 2

Yes, leave a large portion of your players locked out of a very casual and harmless feature for everyone to have. Makes sense. On that note, make Guild halls Raid worthy and only let the top elite of elite have them.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

To those who preach about how I shouldn’t need gold for most of the things I do, or how I should just play the game and gold will come automatically: save it. I’m literally not interested in your opinion on whether I do or do not need gold (I think I know best whether I need gold or not), or how I should just play the game and accept the pitiful amount of silver that the game throws at me after everything I loved doing to make gold got nerfed in their rewards or completely removed from the game.

Shoe.5821:

this was the point of the change?

when you tagged an escort and left you were relying on someone else to actually do the event ~ getting full credit was kinda silly

I must disagree. If you’re fighting at Indigo and protect Blue’s bull as it leaves the area you shouldn’t have to travel to Blue to get credit for the event. If you don’t protect it Blue will never get supplies, if you follow the bull you are no longer protecting Indigo, instead spending your time running back and forth between the forts.

This isn’t a good change for the Meta events.

Anyone who thinks that “stuck with it till the end” are the only people who should get credit really hasn’t done this event.

I commanded this event fairly regularly. Think how many times a commander has said, “Indigo needs help” and in mid-stride breaks off supporting Amber to reinforce Indigo. That how the map works. What? So now everyone just sets up shop in Red, Amber, Indigo, Blue, or is perpetually relegated to kicking some yaks around? That’s real smart. Let’s just cut out all strategy entirely!

Yeah, nothing positive to say about this.

why dont u put this important inforamtion in the patch notes?
im working on frostfang and didnt understand why i couldnt go on.
i had to use google to find this post cause the forum didnt find anythig for “glacial imbued jar”.
when will u enable it again??? and please inform about such things in the patch notes !!!

I mean, I get what you mean but Norns totally don’t worship the human gods :/

They also said play how you want. You don’t have to grind, you CHOOSE to grind. I’m leveling my masteries without grinding. What’s the issue?

The one to Rule.2593:

Not sure where you are getting your definitions from but…

“Anemia is a condition in which you don’t have enough healthy red blood cells to carry adequate oxygen to your tissues. "

Which makes no sense with the context of armor skins.

dictonary.com, vocabulary.com, thefreedictionary.com, google definitions, yourdictionary.com, Merriam Webster? You’re in the medical profession & you’ve only ever heard of the pathological definition of Anemic? That’s highly unlikely.

DarksunG.9537:

Mo Mo.1947:

Factions is a completely different thing from HoT.

1. Factions was a campaign, meant to be completely standalone.

2. It was built on a simpler engine (read less advanced) and thus took less time and resources to develop new 3D content.

3. In Factions, they only had to develop new armor to fit one race, humans, and all armors only had to be optimized to fit the animations of a specific class that only had a certain set of class-specific animations.

Factions and HoT cannot be compared. The situations and structure of the two are completely different. You might as well be comparing Pac Man to Asteroids.

Anet had half the # of employees when they made Factions, they made it way less time & Factions had to make a new set for every class, not just 3 types modified for body types. (especially when the only real modifications are for Charr & asura & the system may even be automated by the look of the quality on the Charr) So yes, it can be compared. & no, it doesn’t always add up.

Apparently you’ve never created a 3d model.

In the GW2 engine, armor must be hand rigged to each and every body type (so 5-6 per gender per race). an “automated” version would look terrible because of little differences between races (humans have longer legs than norn, sylvari dimensions don’t match up with humans…etc) so each of these needs to be done by hand in order to get the aesthetics right.

thirdly, they’re only required to make max level armor (not any starting armor) which has the assumption by the community to look “epic” so that’s even more modeling and rigging.

Yes the team size has doubled but the work has far more than doubled ( 1 body type per armor * 10 professions * 2 genders or 20 separate models to rig to 10 body types * 5 races * 3 armor classes * 2 genders or 150 separate models to rig , and the complexity of the armors have gone up so that rigging takes way more time)

lastly, true armor sets need to not clip with existing armor pieces, see light vigil pants with seer shoes for an example of this not working, so you have to go in and verify with every race (5) every body type(10) and every piece of armor (way too many to count) and every animation (too many to count) to make sure that it doesn’t clip that bad, and yes the current amount of clipping is “not that bad” compared to just slapping that stuff on.

This is the real reason that we’ve gotten so few new “armor sets” (not outfits as they don’t have to jive well with existing armors) and so many new weapons (since they’re fairly simple to avoid clipping). The inclusion of them in to the bltc as opposed to the open world reflects the sheer amount of man hours (I’d guess somewhere around 2 weeks for 2 artists PER armor set)

Factions only had to make sets of armor for humans. Here they need to make 5x that.

In reality, they have added 45 new armor sets.

Derom.1205:

What is your opinion about the Ascalon discussion?

I think the fact that people can be so passionate about Ascalon and both sides have their supporters for different reasons is amazing.

You’d think Anet would take this opportunity and expand this plot because it has so much potential. But no. Eversince the release of GW2, Anet demonized Ascalonian humans and gave the middlefinger to all of the GW1 fans. We even have events to destroy their statues, their legacy.. where can I do the same to the charr?

It’s a shame to see Anet destroy this part of the lore. I bet Rytlock will channel Rurik and undo the foefire too, freeing the land from those evil evil humans…

TL;DR Anet made this great debate into a onesided arguement by supporting the charr in every possible situation and hating on Ascalonians.

I’m definitely in the camp of having issues with the Charr / Human lore. I completely agree with Lutinz’s points. There’s (dare I say) sloppy writing going on here and imo the Charr were really mishandled.

For me, as a player of GW and a player in general, if I’m going to put my heart into a character then I need to relate, sympathize, empathize, and / or connect on some level with that character. After seeing what the Charr did tothe humans, that’s a very tall order.

There’s the usual back and forth about ‘but the humans did this.." Here’s my problem, the Charr, imo, still exhibit those heinous behaviors that made me hate them in the first place.

“Victory at any cost.” That line is absolutely disgusting. I hate it. No heroic race should EVER stand by that creed. Victory at any cost includes any and every dirty, sleezy, or terrible act to achieve a win. As a person I very much believe in the code of “It’s how we win that matters.” Get me on the Charr’s side after the Searing? Easy, make them noble winners. Show that they’re better than Humans in a war. Show that they were disgusted at the Searing, because that’s a dishonorable way to win a war. That may be somewhere in game, but I haven’t really seen that as a major presence among the Charr. (If you’re going to put in here, “that’s not the real world.. wars in the real world were won in horrible ways yada yada,” I’m giving my opinion on how to get me on board with the Charr in a fantasy game. So sure, evil is in the world, but if the world was a video game, I wouldn’t put my money to it. Good thing we can control / give input into our hobbies.)

TBH, all of the races are really troubling to me. The Norn seem like they will abandon any alliances once they get their home back. The Asurans seem like they’re just waiting for an opportunity to smother the other races under their tech to dominate the world. The Charr with their “Victory at any cost” seem poised to reignite those war machines against any bordering race.

The only two races that don’t seem to have an alterior motive are the Humans, b/c they’ve been beaten to death, and the Sylvari, b/c they’re too new to know how crappy the world can be.

In the end, the Charr should have been humanized. Show me that they were victims to the Flame Legion JUST AS MUCH as the humans. Show me the humans were victims to Alderbern JUST AS MUCH as the Charr. Provide mutual understanding between the Charr and every other race. Get rid of Trojan Horses like “Victory at any cost,” and I’m all on board. Otherwise, this is just a race that is still very 2 dimensional.

Again, this is just my opinion. I play a charr character despite the fact I struggle with really enjoying it due to all of the negative relations I have with their lore. Even if I think the writing is sloppy, at the end of the day, I really enjoy the game and the wonderful worlds that are built within in it… just not the Charr ;o

• ignoring this kitten discution started by someone not playing the class *

When i first read this change, i didnt understand why.
Then came the engi part’s patch
And everything become clear

Adrenal Implant: Endurance regeneration is increased by 50%.

This trait has been useless since release since endurance regen cap is +100%
Now you can add this now-OP trait with vigor to get to the cap.

How this worked at Anet

“-GUYS!! Engi have one useless trait! It’s a cataclysm!!! we need to power creep the class to the 8th heaven!!!
- Make it synergyze with by nerfing vigor!
-Genius!!
- but … wait, that would nerf ele ….
- 2bird one shot! gg team
"
as i say about Anet way to release balance patch:

This ain’t a good patch if it doesn’t nerf ele

Daniel Handler.4816:

The causes are only slightly relevant to what comes after.

Said no historian ever. The why is always important.

Kalavier.1097:

To use ingame npc dialogue. “The searing is ANCIENT history. Move on.” How can there be hope of peace if there is nothing but clinging to ancient hatreds? Hell, look at what happened to Ascalon. IF Adelbern hadn’t clung to his hate so fiercely, THINGS probably would’ve been different!

Wow…the irony is strong in this one. It’s interesting that the Searing, which was 250 years ago and let the Charr nearly wipe humanity off the Tyrian continent, should be forgived and forgotten. Yet the Charr were perfectly in the right to wage war on humanity a thousand years after being driven out of a small section of their territory. Peaches.

Also, Adelbern never tried to kill the Krytan ambassador. Even though he was a White Mantle…and probably deserved it. Cite a source anywhere.

Stop trying to dictate how others play….

I hate that! Play what you like. nobody stopping you.

Kalavier.1097:

Honestly… I think in a sense the issue comes from the human side refusing to take fault for what they’ve done. Ascalon has explicitly been stated to been taken from the Charr by force. Charr simply responded to this by invading back to reclaim their homeland. That’s what the siege of Ebonhawke is IMO… them simply trying to kick out that last pesky bit of the nation. Now there is peace forming and humanity WILL GET some of Ascalon back.

Yet that’s not enough. Most Adelbern ascalonians I see (aka most players it seems) aren’t happy at all unless the Charr just GIVE UP EVERYTHING they’ve taken back, and go back north of the wall and just throw away anything and everything they’ve worked on to ‘make it up to the humans’.

Ok, I had to respond to this.

Firstly, the Charr reclaiming their homeland? They only had occupied Ascalon for around one generation and they had taken the land from the native Grawl living there. The Charr warred with everybody. Even the Forgotten.

Secondly, humans had been living in Ascalon for 1000 years by the time of the ‘reclamation’. How long do you have to live in a place before you can make some claim to the land. Anyway the whole basis for the war was driven by the titans which is why they went straight through Ascalon after the Searing and attacked Orr. Was their invasion of Kryta ‘reclamation’?.

Again, Im not arguing that the humans should have Ascalon back. They couldn’t hold it even if the Charr did pull out. Kryta is struggling to hold what it has and Ebonhawke is a pipe dream.

My point earlier in the thread is that Ascalon is a focal point for human fans because it is a poster boy in GW2 for what humans have lost and really for human lore that’s the primary focus. Not where the humans are or where they are going but everything they have lost. That’s a really stark contrast to what the other races have.

Humanity needs that future, that pride. Humanity in GW2 is frankly depressing, pressed by all sides, hardly being able to hold what it had and mainly due to self destructive behaviour of its own people. The peace treaty was useful and convenient for the Charr. The humans needed it.

Humans don’t need Ascalon. They don’t need Orr (and they aren’t going to get that back either). They need to be able to move on and stop feeling like they are a race fading away. Most of the races narrative is a ‘To Tomorrow!’ narrative. Humans have the ‘Just please let me make it to the next day’ narrative. Its depressing.

Kalavier.1097:

I never, ever suggested the Charr instantly made nice. I simply pointed out that in the case of Ebonhawke, the charr made the first gestures of Peace and the Krytan prince ruined everything. Honestly, the way it all was described, the sieges were less of a focus of the legions and more of just something they did. Hell, we know for a fact at the cease fire being signed a human walked out of the gates with some beer, went up to the Charr, and both sides just sat down and had a kittening drink. Some mortal enemies they are if they literally can have a drink and become friends after that.

They have a statue in the BC of the first charr to ever reach the top of Ebonhawke’s walls. The siege wasn’t a joke, particularly for those inside. Again Ghost’s of Ascalon made that pretty kitten clear. Hell, even visiting the Fields of Ruin and talking to the NPCs shows how deep those hatreds run and how hard it is for them to be buried. There is a Vanguard veteran who states she doesn’t think she will ever be able to completely abandon her hate of Charr but her hope is that that hate can die with her generation.

The great irony of the acts of the Separatists and the Renagades are they give the Ebon Vanguard and the Charr as shared enemy which actually pulls the two sides closer together. Funnily enough that’s how Ryltock and Logan first started off. It was others trying to kill them that got them to stop trying to kill each other.

Kalavier.1097:

The Searing also is being healed and doesn’t plague the land with endless issues trying to MURDER EVERYTHING, human or Charr.

Honestly, the effects of the searing have long passed, the land is fertile and growing plants and the rivers are water, not tar. Ascalon is capable of supporting life. Meanwhile, the foefire is on the minds of everybody in Ascalon, EVERY SINGLE DAY because the ghosts are ALL OVER and CONSTANTLY ATTACKING.

And it was ironically the Ghosts that Smolder used as the core of his argument to end the war with humans. The charr didn’t need more enemies at the time.

Again, I think the Foefire was an atrocity. However considering it was a similar type of magic (ie. forbidden) that handed the Charr Ascalon in the first place, its kind of rich for them to play moral superiority.

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t hate the Charr, I don’t think they should be ‘bad guys’ and I don’t think humans should be reclaiming Ascalon. I actually want to see humanity move beyond clinging to the past save maybe for the Six to have some relevance to them again. I infact LIKE the charr, warts and all. The question in this thread was what we don’t like about the charr. Ive been talking about there warts.

Yes, the charr, like every other race has those warts and a good part of them are shown in how they acted in their conquest of Ascalon. Don’t try to whitewash them. Let them wear their warts like the Asura, the Norn, and most definitely, the humans do. Hell even the Sylvari now have their warts.

Kalavier.1097:

Said throwing to beasts was EOTN though. This falls into the “Flame Legion lead everybody and had a stranglehold on control.” Also, as set up by the lore… Parents don’t have THAT much say in Charr upbringing. It’s not like Pyre knew dear old dad and was taught everything he knew about that. Pyre also was willing to work with humans and didn’t feel sorry.

Your basically saying that the invading charr were only Flame Legion or that only the Flame Legion participated in the atrocities. There is no evidence of that and certainly no evidence that the charr at the time gave a kitten . Charr are extremely pragmatic and extremely brutal. Ends generally justify the means as long as the ramifications don’t come back to bite you in the kitten . This is a race where a higher ranking soldier (and every charr is part of the military) can gut you for a failure and the other charr will take it as justified. Pyre was proud of his father. We know his involvement cause Pyre tells the player. Pyre was also completely unapologetic about what the charr did to the humans.

Charr have many great traits but they can be pretty bloody amoral.

Kalavier.1097:

Plenty of Charr in the Priory (Also there are at least three charr scholars IIRC investigating the ruins of Rin). Even then, outside of that location and BC… it’s not brought up or touched. Oldgate and IIRC, Piken Square ruins imply some Charr dislike the Flame Legion actions. I have never gotten the sense that the Flame Legion gets hero worship because of the Searing/breaking the wall.

There are a lot of charr in the Priory but almost none of them actually share their opinions on the events of the fall of Ascalon with us so we can’t speak for them.

There are some charr who reflect that what was done to humans was brutal but most don’t seem to give a kitten . Most seem more kittened they won’t stay dead. Let’s remember that general charr opinion of humans has generally been pretty low till recently.

The Charr of GW2 bear responsibility for their ancestors actions because they embrace them themselves.

I don’t know if I would go so far as to say bear responsibility, but as a person who never played GW1 and knew little about it, the fact that the Charr build on ruins and happily talk about how they leave ruins in place/around them to gloat, basically, was one of the most unlikeable things about them. And even knowing almost nothing about the first game, very little of what Charr characters say about the war sounds true (and noteably, most of what humans say does). I’ve met a few Charr NPCs who were awesome but overall I am always surprised how unlikeable most Charr and their culture are written. I imagine other people are getting something different out of it but doing a group close-reading-of-the-text over messageboard sounds challenging :P

That said, if I could donate gold to get Kirt a scholarship to the Priory of something I would be so happy.

A discussion interesting enough to get me out of Forum retirement. Too bad it has deteriorated to the level where people start to take things personal.

About claims that GW is human-centered in contrast to GW2, there were no other playable species, therefore no alternatives around which the game could center. The Charr are simply evil monsters in Prophecies, and i wonder if some people really expect the game to center around anything else but the “good” guys, which in Prophecies is human heroes.
At least till Eye of the North which equally centers around humans, Asura, Norn and dwarves despite most of them not being playable.

And the Charr are clearly nothing but monsters in Guild Wars till the first appearance of Charr who could talk in NF, which was written by different people. But even in GWEN is the majority of Charr antagonistic and those who ally with you, Pyre’s warband, welcome the actions of the Charr against humanity, like the Searing.

In GW2 we got the so-called “subjective truths” and it seems to me like the writers try to turn the subjective view of the Charr into a general objective truth. The Charr of GW2 bear responsibility for their ancestors actions because they embrace them themselves. They waged war against humanity till recently, and worship some of the worst Flame-Legion monsters as heroes.

If a nation continues a war after a change of government, one they see as “just” even under the new government, then they take responsibility for the old governments actions. To claim otherwise (“the Flame Legion did it”) is hypocrisy. The Charr of today have to bear with the legal and moral heritage left by their ancestors, that of the worst atrocities in Tyrian history. That they do not care shows that they haven’t changed.

We also see no atrocities committed against the Charr by humanity. Some people use the Charr-hide armor as proof, but neither does that counter all the evil deeds of the Charr, nor was it anything noteworthy in Prophecies. Primeval armor uses the bones of demons, does anybody complain about that? How do players get Centaur hooves as trophies in GW2? They cut them off. Charr-hide armor does not “equal” the countless atrocities committed by the Charr. You get Charr hide as a drop if you want it or not.

The only hint of atrocities is in Ghosts of Ascalon when Ember is supposed to get flayed alive. By an Asura by the way. And GoA is GW2 material.

Finally, the last Titan worshipped by the Charr as a god falls in 1078, killed by human heroes just like all the other Titans on the face of Tyria:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Smell_of_Titan_in_the_Morning

Kalavier.1097:

What I hate is how people seem to avoid the idea that the leadership change means a lot.

I mean, does everybody think Germany is all evil now? No. They got new leadership and direction. The Charr overthrew their old leadership, and started a new path. Why people continue to hold ALL CHARR EVERYWHERE TODAY accountable for actions made by/ordered by FLAME LEGION LEADERSHIP is what confuses me.

Well what I hate is when GW2 players think that the whole “the Flame Legion did it” mantra even existed in Prophecies. There was zero indication of this. In fact, the Flame Legion itself wasn’t even written into the narrative until Eye of the North.

And as EotN is first and foremost a prequel to GW2, as ANet has stated, it shouldn’t be a surprise that there is a little disconnect there.

To be fair to Gwen, the charr were really, really bad to her and she was a child. If I remember it right, she only escaped cause they threw her into a pit to get torn apart by a beast for their entertainment of the watching charr and she managed to get past the beast and escape into the tunnels the beast came from.

I think anyone who had been through what she had would be understandable in her hate of charr. Hell, even Pyre thought her hatred was justified. It was her fear of charr he saw as her weakness.

I also wouldn’t really wouldn’t say Gwen is painted as a big shining light, at least any more than say Salma is. Gwen is really only big in Ebonhawke and most players who hadn’t played GW1 or read up on it probably wouldn’t really know who Gwen was.

Kalavier.1097:

Actually, I’d say it’s hard to tell if they mean the titans/destroyers, or if they mean an earlier thing. For all we know, it could be pointing more toward the Flame Legion’s rule since they mention machines of war as I recall.

Its vague but judging by general charr attitudes towards humans I doubt the idea of giving humans credit for their role in freeing the charr from their gods would be popular. Further, its worth pointing out that it was the loss of the titans that first started weakening the Flame Legions power. Humans also killed of a good portion of the Flame Legion’s leadership during Pyre’s time.

Kalavier.1097:

I mean, does everybody think Germany is all evil now? No. They got new leadership and direction. The Charr overthrew their old leadership, and started a new path. Why people continue to hold ALL CHARR EVERYWHERE TODAY accountable for actions made by/ordered by FLAME LEGION LEADERSHIP is what confuses me.

We are 250 years later, after a culture restructured itself and replaced it’s government. People act as if the Charr have a clean slate, but they don’t. There are references (praising and condemning) the flame legion actions during prophecies. There are LITERALLY some charr who outright state the popular charr view of the battle of Rin (where the stormcaller horn was used) isn’t accurate.

Germany doesn’t revere any of hitler’s generals for successful conquests during WW2. Germany actually has as a culture show a deal of remorse for the actions of their nation at the time. The charr do revere at least one Flame Legion general as a hero and show no remorse for what was done to the humans.

I have only ever found one charr who actually stated the popular charr view of the battle of Rin was possibly in accurate and that was born out of a pragmatism and belief in the value of truth over rhetoric rather than any respect for humans.

Kalavier.1097:

Also, in reply to the topic about “Human advances are not there.” Did that person miss the fact one of the KEY ELEMENTS to getting airships off the ground and working was HUMANITY? It was joint between Asura, Human, and Charr tech.

And what actual technology did they contribute? We have actually had this discussion in the Lore forums before. We are told humans contribute but can you point at any of the tech the Pact has and say ‘that was Human contribution’? You can certainly point out Sylvari, Asura and Charr contributions. They are kitten obvious. As for the norn, they at least bring their raw power and spiritual connections since the Norn’s supernatural patrons are actually still talking to them.

If there are human advances we aren’t shown them. The only advancement we have seen is the watchknights and they backfired dramatically and were reengineered tech invented by Scarlet in the first place.

Purely for me, my lingering dislike for the Charr is a certain hypocrisy they seem to have.

They take credit for victory over the humans while ignoring that it was the magics of the Flame Legion, who they hold in contempt, which enabled their victory by crippling Ascalon with the Searing.

They see no real issue with the use of the Searing on the humans but get upset over the humans use of the Foefire on them.

They claim to have killed their gods when it was again humans who did that.

Hell, one of the key figures in the start of the Charr throwing off the yoke of the Flame Legion was infact saved by humans, as was his warband, from Flame Legion cages.

It is ironic that the Charr actually owe a lot of their success to others they look at with contempt.

This isn’t to say I hate Charr, but they do come across as a little full of it.

1. Before humanity came with their big mean gods, Ascalon wasn’t even Ascalon. It was just another nameless area the Charr called their own, they didn’t even have any settlements there. The bulk of their land was north and east of the Ascalon Basin. The humans named the land after themselves…i.e. Ascalonians.

2. Humans never “ethnically cleansed” the Charr, they simply fought them out of the basin then let them be. It was the Charr who were bent on human genocide…as evidenced by the massive assault on all 3 human nations at once. They didn’t do that to win back Ascalon, they did it because they wanted all of humanity to burn.

3. The Charr back then were just as much human-haters as the Flame Legion. This idea that the Flame Legion “forced” the other Charr to attack humans is silly. They wrote that in because the Charr are a playable race now and it would be narrative suicide to have a former apex antagonist simply become the good guys overnight. The Flame Legion became one of the fall guys for the new world order of multi-raced Tyria.

4. The Blood Legion Homelands was never in Ascalon. That was literally added in 2013 sometime by ANet. Besides, it would be rather odd given that the legions were formed after the Charr had been pushed out of Ascalon.

5. The nation of Ascalon’s historical borders reached all the way to the north of the basin rim. By the time of the Searing, the Charr had slowly been advancing on the Wall for several decades in preparation of the Searing.

Diovid To answer your first statement…

…That’s because Prophecies was never written with the Charr winning in mind. The author used them as an early antagonist to fuel the back story of Ascalon and little more. In fact, the author intended Ascalon to win the war by the time of Factions, with the Charr fading off the Tyrian stage. Due to the vague and indeterminate writings on the Charr(or lack thereof) after Proph, future writers(EotN and on) used those gaps in the writing to resurrect the Charr into something they were never supposed to be…i.e. good guys. The reason this topic always becomes personal is because of that narrative disconnect. Ascalon was the birthplace of most Guild Wars characters, which were all human and which all knew the Charr would burn you alive if you let them.

So it shouldn’t come as a surprise that there is a bit of consternation at having a new author come in and not only wipe your nation off the map with a few flicks of his pen, but also hand it to the very creatures who razed your homeland and burned alive your fellow countrymen(and women) by the thousands.

In defense of the humans:

Firstly afaik there aren’t many details about what sparked the first charr human conflicts. The original ascalonian settlers may well have been peaceful, while what we do know is that the charr have a history of being territorial and agressive. And even then if you look at the wall the ascalonians only took a small portion of the land, only a fraction of what lay north of the wall and east of the blazeridge. It’s only after the charr continued throwing themselves at the humans and lost their khan that they started losing land, in part due to violent infighting.

Secondly, claiming land because at some point in time some far ancestor called it home isn’t particularly good ethics. Hell, the forgotten have a greater claim on ascalon than the charr in that case. In the end land belongs to those who are born of it, which then were ascalonians and now are modern day charr. The ‘this is charr land’ justification is no more than an excuse for the glorification of their warmongering history.

Bathos.6341:

The charr didn’t attack ascalon out of malace, they attacked it to take back land taken from them, and to avenge an entire GENERATION of their people massacred by humans.

You realize the charr invasion was nearly a millenium after they were driven out? By all accounts it was ancient history by then, especially when you consider the searing was no more than three centuries ago current time.

Bathos.6341:

Two wrongs don’t equal a right, but right now the scores are even at one genocide a side, and I’d really rather the war stopped there rather than cause any more.

Except the charr didn’t stop at ascalon. Thanks to the charr orr got destroyed & Kryta was taken over by the mursaats and the white mantle.