Because I have all character classes I can do comparisons…
Warrior greatsword vs thief dagger.The warrior has 20962 HP and the thief is 13395 for a ratio of 1.56
White damage per hit averages: W: 796.5 vs. T: 942.3
Rush vs deathblossom: W:2001.9 vs T:957.8
Whirlwind vs. Cloak and dagger W:2241.1 vs T: 1930.2
Arcing slice vs Heartseeker W:2877.7 vs T:2324.5
Hundred blades vs. Backstab W:6381.6 vs 5148.7
Where do I even begin with this…
For starters, I guess I’ll start by saying Thief/War are my two mains, so I have decent experience with both. And right out of the gate I can tell you this comparison is bad.
Health Pools are what they are. Warriors have more health/armor than a thief, and this is just a fact of life. But Warriors have almost no evasive abilities and instead need to focus on mitigation (which is a very different thing), so the difference is justified.
As for white damage, a greatsword full combo is almost twice as long as a thief’s full dagger combo, and a thief applies poison with his basic attacks (so more damage and -33% healing). And not only that, but as your list shows, Thieves are hitting harder per hit as well.
Now comparing Rush with Death Blossom is how I knew this list was going to be bad. Rush is a janky ability that usually doesn’t even work as intended, and has a decent CD tied to it, while Death Blossom is designed for Condition damage in mind (so why you are even comparing the white damage between the two is insane). Not only that, but Death Blossom provides evasion as well, and can be used to completely avoid attacks.
Whirlwind would have been a better skill to compare to Death Blossom, but instead you did CnD. And CnD is simply the better of the two. Whirlwind has decent burst, but CnD literally forces your opponent to deselect you if it hits and puts you in stealth, all while applying Vulnerability. It isn’t meant to be a heavy hitting ability, it is a setup for a heavy hitting ability, and provides insane utility all in one skill.
Arcing Slice vs Heartseeker: One requires a full energy source and is the entire class’ main gimmick all tied to a CD once it is used, and the other is a spammable skill for the thief that does comparable damage despite this. I really don’t see where the complaint lies.
100b vs Backstab: One is a channeled skill that roots the user in place while the other is a positional skill that needs to be used in stealth (which the Thief has plenty of), but can be used while moving, and can be guaranteed a full damage crit if traited, where 100b cannot. Did I also mention that 100b can be rolled out of before it can even ramp up damage, whereas a backstab has already dealt it’s intended damage by the time your opponent sees it happen?
I’m not saying Warrior is a bad class by ANY means, but this comparison is downright insane.
Physical: Press 1, deal 2k instant damage
Condition: Press 1, deal 800 damage over 8 secondsOr in the case of a condi Guardian, press a few buttons and cause 8,000 damage every second for 10 seconds.
You where close though.
All of which can be wiped clean with the press of a single button. Anti-condition is flooded in this game, and no one seems to want to use them despite endlessly complaining about their presence. The trade off is that you are now more susceptible against zerker builds (shocker!).
Also, if you think a full Zerker build isn’t able to deal more than 8k dps with a few button presses, you are having a massive case of confirmation bias.
Ye the thing is those people who managed to get into the raid properly already succeeded in killing the bosses (according to reddit).
My point is NOT that there shouldn’t be bugs in beta.
My point IS that the only challenging part about the beta are the bugs.
It might have to do with the fact that GW2 is a PvE flawed game from the get go. People can complain about trinities all they want, but they allow structured fights to take place, and as a result, more unique scenarios for boss encounters can be made from it.
If Anet wanted GW2 to be a PvP focused game, they should have focused more on the PvP nature of it. The sad part is, they really wanted to push for the PvE aspect, and it wasn’t even as good as most F2P MMO’s out there, to be completely honest. If it wasn’t for the subscription less approach, I honestly don’t know if I would have even given GW2 half the time of day that I had.
I hate gw2 thief profession. This game is not for thieves. This game favors ranged. The thief initiative bar is the most restrictive nuisance I’ve yet encountered.
No mana bars please this is not FFXIV tyvm.
GW2 could honestly stand to take some tips from FFIV. The game is probably one of the better MMO’s on the market.
As for Thief’s initiative being intrusive, I really don’t know what to tell you. Thieves are the most flexibly played classes in the game. Everyone else is essentially just spamming attacks when they’re finally off cool-down with the exception of maybe 1 weapon skill they wait on.
Get back to me when you are in a Tier 8 WvW server with an Outnumbered buff almost every time you enter the map.
also condition damage needs to get toned down its beyond lame how one can ram up to 8 ticks of burning or any other crappy conditions on your kitten without any problem and then just run off and watch you die these people dont even wanna fight all they wanna do is apply conditions and run..
How is applying damage over time any less engaging in a fight than simple spamming attacks and crossing your fingers for a crit?
~snip
While you’re “spamming attacks and crossing your fingers for a crit” you risk your health dropping fast since you actually have to give up defense to get worthwhile output that people can’t just out heal or walk away from. Conditions don’t just do damage over time, they can effectively shut down opponent’s ability to perform even basic actions which means even more damage mitigation in favor of someone who can already run pretty tanky. It’s less engaging because there is more cushion for mistakes.
Crits hit harder and burst faster per hit than conditions ever will. There is immediate payoff for going full Zerker, but you get this at the cost of defensive traits. I don’t 1v3 people with my Zerker Warrior/Thief because the bleed/poison ticks caught them off guard. It’s because I am able to completely take a person out of the fight before they even have a chance to hit the TAB key through physical crits having immediate effect, whereas my Rabid Necro/Engineer need to be tanky enough to even get to the point where damage is going to make an actual impact.
Physical: Press 1, deal 2k instant damage
Condition: Press 1, deal 800 damage over 8 seconds
If you can’t see why being tankier is a fair trade-off for condition users (and borderline NEEDED to even be viable in a PvP environment) then PvE honestly is probably more your speed.
All a mana bar would do is religate classes out of the general game play. As some classes would be able to out fps them by virtue of not having one, like a warrior or engineer.
Warriors had an energy bar in GW1, and there’s no reason why Engineers could have one implemented as well. And even if they didn’t get one, it would be obvious that adding in an energy source for attacks would require them to be re balanced to adjust for it.
I would like to start off by saying that I do not think GW2 is in need of mana to make it work, but more of a way to look at how it could work. Guild Wars 1 had an energy bar, and I would be interested to see how GW2 would work with a similar system in mind.
Thieves are currently the closest to the old way Guild Wars used to play, and while I don’t think every class needs to be a Thief clone in order to spam attacks as they wish, I do think cutting back Cooldowns across the board while also implementing a type of energy source (and associated costs for most everything you do) can lead to more tactical game, and some of those more worthless gear sets can possibly become more viable if they were re-purposed with energy/mana regen in mind.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/VIDEO-I-Exy-I-The-Judge-WvW
Ironically a guy just posted a video visualising all this haha :P
I like how people watch these compilations designed to look as impressive as possible from the uploader’s intent, while also apply confirmation bias as why “this proves the build is OP”. Lets not even attempt to bring up the OTHER Warriors in that video that share the exact same build that the uploader put down without much effort along with his 2 buddies. It is entirely possible that the guy playing in the video was really good, and the people he fought weren’t. After all, hardly anyone uploads compilation montages of the user dying.
I remember when running GS in pvp was for the bads
And I was one of those bads, because I loved the flavor of GS. And now OP’s tears make me laugh.
dire for wvw or rabid for pvp is engis only choice if u wana compete
not true at all
soldier, marauder, rabid, and carrion all work in pvp. full glass and power bruiser work in wvw. pure dire is actually terrible in wvw, no way to proc ip. pretty much any mix of rabid/carrion/dire/sinister works in wvw, simply choose how glassy you want to be and make sure you have 20~25% crit rate minimum or int sigil.
what engi cant fight well against in a duel is condi mes/thief/ranger… well.. condi anything tbh. most power builds are killable and the spectrum ranges from tough to easy.
How on earth can you be having a hard time against any stealth builds? Engineers are literally hard counters to them.
also condition damage needs to get toned down its beyond lame how one can ram up to 8 ticks of burning or any other crappy conditions on your kitten without any problem and then just run off and watch you die these people dont even wanna fight all they wanna do is apply conditions and run..
How is applying damage over time any less engaging in a fight than simple spamming attacks and crossing your fingers for a crit? It isn’t like almost every condition attack in the game is unblockable/undodgable, and the difference between straight damage and conditions is that conditions need time to apply, while damage is instant.
You really sound salty over the fact that you basically died 10 seconds ago if the person you were fighting was full Zerker instead, only with conditions you have an opportunity to remedy the problem. If you have an issue with Condition builds, then map anti-condition skills on your toolbar at the cost of DPS. You cannot make a build that is good against everything in this game, so stop trying to feel as though you are entitled to a completely fair fight when your very build is a hard counter to others out there.
EDIT: I’d also like to point out that my new Pistol/Shield Engineer is literally laughing at all stealth builds, atm. Nothing is funnier than seeing a Thief or Mesmer try to stealth away from a fight only to have 6 seconds of Reveal applied to them, or to take a flamethrower to the invisible face and kick their punk!@# out of stealth. Every class has a means to deal with conditions and a good chunk against stealth. If you DON’T have tools against stealth, you are the paper to their scissors. Get used to it.
(edited by McFribble.2349)
If Volley’s damage isn’t excessive, why is Rapid Fire’s? Fully traited, there’s only about a 10% gap between the 2 skills. Both have the same channel time, the same cooldown, and the same trait to reduce the cooldown. Both gain similar damage from vulnerability, though rifle requires a second skill to provide it. If damage is legitimately an issue, the problem isn’t from the skill.
The fact that you need to combine two of the Warrior’s rifle skills alone (and assuming both hit to fully benefit for them) AND still doesn’t add up to the same amount of damage should be a tall tell sign that RF is pretty ridiculous…
I support ANY Thief build buffs that doesn’t rely on stealth. Thief was my first class, and is now sitting shelved almost permanently because I am not using a stealth build for it.
I gotta agree with OP on this one.
I bought this game at basically release, and have played and put money into it off and on since. I can easily say I have close to $100+ spent in the online store alone, and that isn’t even on the core game purchase.
The changes to this game and the overall goal on how the game is layed out (no boxed expansions?! Seriously?! Do you hate money?!) has left me completely sour. I could play WoW for years with only my Rogue and have a blast. Here, I am STUGGLING to keep interest by leveling multiple characters, and I am about to get my 5th and 6th lvl80 in the next few weeks.
The Warrior changes are kittening disgusting, Ham/Bow is still insanely good while everything else suffers because the devs have Z.E.R.O. foresight with their changes in the game. I am all for Adrenaline being a used resource. But how about you actually make it a WORTHWHILE resource before changing it, and making half of the class completely unusable as a result.
I’m about done with the game. Dota is a much better, more balanced, and less time intrusive PvP game that is actually worth playing at this point. GW2 use to fill me MMO PvP itch, but trying to play it is like banging my head against a wall.Too many bad design choices from the get go, and even more added in as the game continues.
I really wish I could get all the time/money invested on the game back, as I was hoping the devs could have turned this into something good. Clearly, I was wrong.
“Don’t get me angry. Anet doesn’t like me when I’m angry.”
Let me know when a GS/S+WH Warrior can kill someone 1v1 without having to put out twice the effort needed, then complain that they run away too easily.
Until then, your complaints for nerfing an already broken weapon for fighting purposes are going to fall on deafened ears.
So sad this topic is still going. I thought I would have ended it with the youtube link and the E. Honda remark. Some people just can’t be reasoned with even when looking at factual information.
Your first mistake was linking those idiots Extra Credit as a reliable source of info. Your second mistake is assuming what the video has to say is even true. Your third mistake was to assume you had some sort of ace to stop all discussions about a controversial change to a class that now makes it easier to play than ALMOST anything in the game (Ham/Bow i still scrubbier, but not by much).
The difference here is that Condition cleanse helps against almost every class in the game. Reflect works well against LB Rangers. If you can’t see the differences here, I don’t know what to tell you. The ENTIRE kittenING GAME shouldn’t have to adapt itself around one class. That is a sign that one class is doing something it probably shouldn’t be doing.
Sigh. This is why we can’t have good things.
The problem isn’t everyone having to adapt themselves around one class. The problem is everyone has been able to ignore that one class for so long. Suddenly that class is buffed so that the abilities it brings to the game now make a difference, and people are in shock because they can’t ignore it anymore.
Basically, anything added to a game which forces you to adapt is a good thing. That’s telling you Anet has successfully added a new and different challenge or mechanic for you learn to overcome. It’s increased the breadth of the game.
You complain that Reflect only works well against LB rangers. That’s probably a valid complaint, but then you incorrectly conclude that it’s a reason to nerf rangers. The correct conclusion is that Anet needs to add more skills to other classes which require reflect to defend against, thus making it equally as important to carry reflect as it is to carry a condition cleanse. That is balance. What’s the point of even having reflect in the game if you never need to carry it because all builds vulnerable to it are non-threatening and thus can be ignored?
As I said in another thread, balance isn’t “I can run around with my preferred build and not have to worry about anything because my build can defend against anything.” That is horribly unbalanced. Balance is “My build has strong defense against certain things but not others, so I have to be careful to play to my strengths and avoid situations which exploit my weaknesses.” Rock, paper, scissors would be a stupid game if scissors were so weak paper could always ignore them.
Again, you are asking Anet and the entire game to balance itself around Rangers. You never, EVER “balance” out something OP by making everything else just as stupidly good. That is how you BREAK your game beyond repair. Reflect already plays key roles in PvE content, and is justified for being in the game. But you can’t change 7 other classes to be heavily countered with reflect just so your special snowflake Ranger can keep his mobile/ranged Hundred Blades. Sorry, but that train of logic is absurd.
No one ignores Rangers before, no matter how much you want to say otherwise. They may not have been priority #1 or 2 (since LONG RANGE MOBILE DAMAGE shouldn’t be dropping players in a matter of seconds), but they sure as hell weren’t ignored, let alone felt when facing against one.
And for anyone who wanted a video of Rangers 1v1ing players to death with little trouble, here you go:
Hey everyone!
I threw this together and played around with it (while also looking at some of the suggested builds above). What do you guys think about it?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqenUISbX23FmYBrXGhtQG54wgeTnMf8QAA-TJhAwA62fQzJAYcZAAPAAA
Basically put, it is a Carrion build (Power, Vit, Con) that uses both condition AND physical damage with the Pistol. With Target the Maimed, I get +5% damage against bleeding foes, and with Flame Legion runes, I get +7% damage against burning foes, with a combined total of 12% when both are applied!
I traited in Napalm Specialist to keep my burn uptime going on Incendiary Powder to 9 second (so almost constantly ticking since it runs on a 10s CD), and used Sigil of Intelligence to force a crit on weapon swap (which has a 9s CD itself).
I opted for Grenades > Bombs, since I can target where the grenades go (personal preference), and the Bleed from Shrapnel Grenades tick for a long time.
Goggles are used as a low CD Stun Breaker, and to add 10% Vulnerability to my target on top of my Bleed/Burn modifiers (and the extra Crit % wouldn’t hurt between weapon swaps)
While I haven’t been able to try out AED in game yet, it looks like the healing skill to go with to work alongside the high HP pool this build has w/ Carrion. And since I am using a lot of Gadgets, I naturally traited in the reduced CD on all of them (more rocket jumps FTW!)
Lemme know if you guys think this build could be viable, as it might be the one I go with. Thanks!
New to the Engineer, and I liked the idea behind Pistol/Shield. Didn’t know if there was already an established build for this set designed for sPvP or WvW.
Also, what kind of gear set should I be focusing on for it? Power/Crit, or Condition Tank (again, newbie to Engi).
Did you know rocket jumping and strafe jumping wasn’t an intended feature in the old Quake games? The developers didn’t even know it existed until players found out and it became the meta.
But because the Devs aren’t fickle about their game, they let it stay, since players really liked it. And from that point on, Quake was considered one of the best online multiplayer shooters on the planet.
Take some notes. Unless something is SERIOUSLY breaking the game, you should NEVER take away strategic options in your game. Lord Bannering is stoppable by covering entrances and locking enemy players down. But because that is apparently too hard, just get rid of Lord Rezzing…
Did you know that, in GW1, the devs would regularly change a handful of skills, often without notice?
Sometimes to increase functionality of the lesser used skills, but often specifically to interfere with meta builds or “must have” skills?
Did you know that this actually made the game better, because there was a constant shifting in the way people did things, rather than doing the same thing every single time?
Take some notes: banner your lord BEFORE he goes down – play better and be useful rather than using an OP skill to make up for sloppy scouting, defending, and mobility.
If it takes a group to break through your outer wall and your inner wall, you want to do nothing until they’re in your lord’s room? And then you want ONE GUY to reset things since you couldn’t be bothered to save him before, or convince enough of your other people to come help?
It’s a terrible way to play the game, and as has been noted earlier this is the upper tier servers that are crying about this, not the lower tier servers. Sounds like there’s less flexibility and adaptability in the top half of the game, which is also where so many of the “this game is getting stale” threads come from.
Learn to play in a new way. Or drop down a few tiers and we’ll teach you.
Meanwhile, GW1 struggles to keep players, and Quake/Counter Strike continue to be some of the most played games on PC. Changing things for the sake of changing them isn’t a smart idea when things weren’t in need of changing. This is how you BREAK things.
Changes should only be made if they are needed. Doing so to keep player interests only shows that what you had before wasn’t worth playing in the first place, and repeated changes for the same reason proves the devs can’t make a solid online experience to save their lives.
“Tryhards… Report them”
Wtf… Is this DotA?
Sometimes I wish it was. Maybe then we’d have a somewhat balanced PvP experience.
But yeah, reporting people for wanting to win and doing everything in their power that the game allows, is sort of the entire point to PvP. Only “tryhards” here are the kittens too salty to lose, but suck too much to win.
I…yea, I am 29, lol. Well, I guess that would explain it. Thanks for the update.
Did you know rocket jumping and strafe jumping wasn’t an intended feature in the old Quake games? The developers didn’t even know it existed until players found out and it became the meta.
But because the Devs aren’t fickle about their game, they let it stay, since players really liked it. And from that point on, Quake was considered one of the best online multiplayer shooters on the planet.
Take some notes. Unless something is SERIOUSLY breaking the game, you should NEVER take away strategic options in your game. Lord Bannering is stoppable by covering entrances and locking enemy players down. But because that is apparently too hard, just get rid of Lord Rezzing…
The debate here is pretty obviously split by tiers.
T1/T2/some T3 servers have enough players without the AP hunters, so the new achievement system is good for reducing queue time and preventing PvE players from taking spots from WvW players.
For just about everyone else, we needed the PvE players to re-invigorate the (very stale) WvW scene and bolster our numbers to give us a fighting chance against larger servers, so the new achievement system really hurts.
This, so much. T1 players bicthing because they can’t get into WvW. Just way too funny.
I am talking about EB. Literally just signed off on my character. After taking three towers, 3 supply camps, and a bunch of flagposts, I managed to gain 1/10th of a level. And that is with a Birthday Booster being active.
This is a huge slap in the face to players who only want to play WvW, and don’t care for PvE.
I know it’s hard to believe, but some people might actually only like playing WvW, and NOT the PvE content the game offers. Who cares if a bunch of low levels show up in WvW and run with a crowd to PvP and gain levels? If all you plan to do with the character is WvW, isn’t this the way they SHOULD be playing?
Please revert the EXP gain back to the way it was pre-patch. There is ZERO reason for this that isn’t completely superficial.
You’re deluding yourselves.
1500m, high velocity, tracking, 8 sec recharge skill that does THAT much dmg that fast is a cancer to the profession and game modes.I have 2 lvl 80 Rangers which i’ve always loved playing, but last night running around wvw was a complete joke. I specc’ed full berzerker 6/6/xxx just to see the changes at thier full potential and it was the least fun i’ve ever had playing my ranger, Fights didn’t feel hard won at all and very very cheesey.
But unfortunately for every player like myself that likes to feel like they’ve earned a wvw kill, there will be 1000 players who just want the ‘i win’ button.Please think before you defend or justify these changes.
Do you want Rangers to become the fotm cheesemode scrub class? because thats exactley the rep they will now get.
Have some pride in your Ranger and in your own skills because being OP gets very old very fast.Still “downed” in one to two shots.
Any builds with any changes like these to counter OTHER builds are still very OP are welcomed.
Sorry, but solo one still can’t do much against some very powerful toons.
Those of you who think Ranger is OP and “better” than other toons, show me a video, show me the OP Ranger in more than ONE single video.
Show me OP Warriors and Thieves can be beaten solo, not in a group, then I will “believe” that we are viable, not OP.
Thought not.
The patch went live two days ago, and GW2 isn’t exactly the most popular game on the planet. You’d be hard pressed to find ANY videos of the game in the past 2 days, let alone one showing off Rangers 1v1ing players.
The hilarious thing is people are actively trying to get Healing Signet nerfed now.
you kitten m8
If this ever happened, I would literally tell Anet to go kitten themselves via singagram sent to their dev team.
It’s not a perfect comparison, but you do gain adrenaline from hitting AND being hit. I’d love to get Illusions when you hit me … but I’ll settle for on-dodge when I have that spec’d.
I’m all for discussions on how fast adrenaline should increase / decrease with/without various traits, utilities, etc..
I’m tired of people saying that adrenaline is broken due to operating very closely to another mechanic that’s been in game unchanged for quite some time.
If someone wants to run the numbers on time to get 1 bar of adrenaline and time to lose 1 bar … please go for it and let’s discuss.
Otherwise, “things changed and I don’t like it” is getting tiresome.
Similarly, Warriors only get Adrenaline from being hit when traited for it. We also don’t get a full bar of adrenaline for using a single skill, regardless if we actually hit your target or not. We don’t get the choice of 4 burst skills at any time regardless of our weapon equipped. And we sure as kitten can’t turn invisible, feint our position, or turn someone into a usless bird for 10 seconds either. So I really don’t know why you tried comparing the two ability at face value in thee first place.
All I am saying is comparing Mesmer Shatters with Warrior Bursts is like comparing a truck to a car. They’re both vehicles, but by no means are they the same thing.
I would for some builds! But then I definitely would on almost all other classes too. :P
Warrior – Banner
Necro – Plague, Lich Form
Mesmer – Time Warp, Mass Invis (depending on what you’re doing)
Guardian – All 3 are useful and commonly used in WvW
Thief – Dagger Storm, sometimes Thieves Guild if in smaller groups or roamingRanger I’m not familiar with, so I’m not sure how useful Entanglement or Rampage are in large-scale WvW. Not sure about engi’s elites either.
Other than these two, though, every other class has viable (and in every case except maybe Dagger Storm, highly asked for in zerg play) elites for WvW. If you think these are useless and not worth slotting like Tornado and FGS will be, you’re doing something wrong. You really can’t compare the lack of viability of what an elementalist’s elites will become to the viability of other class’ elites.
There literally will be no reason to take any elite for large-scale WvW after these nerfs.
Warrior Banner lost it’s “unintended purpose” as well, and is now useless. There is a reason everyone runs with Signet or Rage, but even that is only mapped and is now never used, since Adrenaline is burnt out faster than a matched fart.
Plague Form is only good for Blind/Chill spam in team fights, and functions pretty much the same as the Tornado Elite. Complaining about one while praising the merits of the other is just silly. Lich Form is only good with Power Necros.
Thief Dagger Storm is bad with anything but a Condition build thief. Don’t event pretend it isn’t.
All in all, don’t act like Eles are the only class in the game with crappy Elite picks. If you do think that way, you need to try rolling another class some time.
I’ve been saying this for months now. I don’t care if they made a new elite skill for the Ele that literally let you map another Utility on for 1.5x the CD as well. Just give us something than the trash we have.
Thief is about an entry level as you can get in PvP. Playing an Ele in PvP is like trying to play piano. You never stop pressing something, but you better be kitten sure you’re pressing the right thing at the right time.
You can complain … or you can adapt.
When I get ripped because I don’t have enough condition cleanses … I slot another in my spec and go back to fighting in that match.
It works much better than if I came here and griped because I died to conditions because I didn’t have enough cleanses.
Same thing here when you have 0 defenses and don’t dodge roll, use terrain, etc. when a Range shoots you.
The difference here is that Condition cleanse helps against almost every class in the game. Reflect works well against LB Rangers. If you can’t see the differences here, I don’t know what to tell you. The ENTIRE kittenING GAME shouldn’t have to adapt itself around one class. That is a sign that one class is doing something it probably shouldn’t be doing.
Also, any of you Rangers saying “use terrain to block LOS” are idiots. Its bad enough that a Ranger on high ground as a melee build is literally impossible to counter, but to assume that there is always going to BE terrain to block LOS is grasping at some seriously worn out straws.
Thieves can be butter for my GS Warrior now, but not blind spamming thieves. Can’t hit those kitteners for anything, and they don’t stand still long enough to burst them down even if I wasn’t blind.
Hi … Mesmers lose their illusions when they miss their shatters. Why shouldn’t you lose your adrenaline?
One shatter does direct damage.
One shatter applies confusion.
One shatter is a CC.
One shatter provides distortion.All shatters consume your illusions regardless of whether or not they miss … or if your illusions are killed before they even have a chance to shatter after you’ve pushed the button.
Yeah, but Mesmers also have entire skill bars filled with ways to create Illusions, one of them being on a Dodge(which you should be doing in combat anyways). I can get three Illusions on the field mid combat faster than a Warrior can press Adrenal Health. Combine that with the fact that your Shatter Skills are all on separate cool downs and don’t all happen at the same time (as the Illusions sit at different distances, and shatter individually when they are close enough to hit).
But if you really want to compare the two of them, why don’t I get retaliation at full Adrenaline, when your Illusions individually do just for existing?
You think that’s bad? Look at the Thrill of the Kill trait and tell me that hasn’t gone from bad, to complete and utterly useless.
“Here’s an extra 10 Adrenaline per kill! Too bad it’ll all be gone the second you get it.”
As a GS/S+WH Warrior, I find it incredibly hilarious that people would call my build “Cowerdly”.
Mobility is literally all the build has, and it is done by doing hit and run tactics. Just because I am making distance =/= I’m taking myself out of a fight (I am going OOC or letting HS pump, while letting bleeds tick on you, though). If I didn’t have those mobility skills, there would be no way I could catch up with almost any ranged classes in the game.
Will I turn tail and run if things don’t go my way? Of course. I’m not going to waste my time standing around and dying just to make a 4 minute trip back. But if I COULDN’T have a semi reliable escape, I wouldn’t even bother with the weapon. Because I sure as hell ain’t using it for the amazing burst DPS it doesn’t have.
No it isnt, that would be too much damage to have on GS, you are just salty
Taking a utility IS speccing. Many players run greatsword just because they want greatsword.
The executioner mechanic refers to the thief trait that only gives +20% damage under half health… so it performs much better than “executioner style” and your point is invalid
Those are condition bursts that are obviously not to be compared with power skills.
You can’t stunbreak if you are downed, and forcing players to stunbreak from a low cd skill is more than acceptable. Unless you are a soloQer and don’t have teammates to coordinate with.
Executioner mechanics are not synonymous with the Thief class, and the Thief’s trait is not the benchmark to focus the mechanic around for Warrior.
While I think the weapon is more fun to use as it plays now, it surely isn’t as effective as it should be. Rush does more damage than our burst skill. This is not acceptable, imo (and I am NOT saying to nerf Rush, Anet. Jesus Christ).
So a build that can 1-2 shot and gets 1 shot itself is op?
Sounds balanced to me.
Ignoring the fact that the Ranger has the advantage of…well…RANGE, it certainly isn’t balanced in the least.
You know what melee glass cannons have as a setback to their squishiness? Having to close the gap.
So tell me, what does this new Cheese build have as a setback? It certainly isn’t long windup animations like Warrior skills. It sure isn’t condition stacking. And it sure isn’t defensive issues or the ability to “miss” your target through bad positioning like melee classes can. So, what’s the trade off?
Hate to say it, but the Ranger class has become more cheesy than Thief or Warrior ever was. Now they have a mobile/ranged Hundred Blades pre-nerf, and a stealth field. Just….lol
You do realize that we had all of that BEFORE the patch, right? We have had that for months. The damage at range is the same as its always been, it just doesnt require utility slots. The only difference between today and last week is that today, there are a thousand rangers in full zerk running around blowing people up, where for the last few years the only people running zerk were bearbow idiots. LB zerk is still a bad spec, still does the same damage it always has, but people are trying it out because its shiney.
If there was a thousand s/d ele’s running around globaling people with fresh air bursts, people would say fresh air was OP, when in reality, it is just as strong as its always been.
Oh, it just frees up a utility slot. My bad. Hey Anet, next time please just let my Necro drop Wells instead of Marks for my Staff skills. It won’t change anything, just free up a hard defensive Utility slot when space is already limited. I mean, I’m already going to be dropping wells anyways, so its not like it would be totally OP, or anything. Thanks.
So a build that can 1-2 shot and gets 1 shot itself is op?
Sounds balanced to me.
Ignoring the fact that the Ranger has the advantage of…well…RANGE, it certainly isn’t balanced in the least.
You know what melee glass cannons have as a setback to their squishiness? Having to close the gap.
So tell me, what does this new Cheese build have as a setback? It certainly isn’t long windup animations like Warrior skills. It sure isn’t condition stacking. And it sure isn’t defensive issues or the ability to “miss” your target through bad positioning like melee classes can. So, what’s the trade off?
Hate to say it, but the Ranger class has become more cheesy than Thief or Warrior ever was. Now they have a mobile/ranged Hundred Blades pre-nerf, and a stealth field. Just….lol
Ooh an extra life bar, you have heavy armour so stop crying. You also have plenty of CC and do you know what necros don’t have a lot of? Stability. Try taking a hammer to a necro fight and watch how much easier it is. Warrior can deal with conditions so easily, like I don’t know if it’s a new trend for warriors to complain about necros, but this isn’t the first thread I’ve seen crying about necros. L2P the class, warrior is easy mode, if you struggle on a warrior perhaps the game has too many buttons and you should try something like pacman or solitaire.
Heavy armor that doesn’t do as much as you seem to think it does.
And Life Force isn’t a second HP bar, like you think it is. If any, and I mean ANY, Necro is using his LF as a last minute panic button, he doesn’t know what he is doing.
Life Force should be used within your normal rotations, and it plummets rapidly when triggered. If you think LF give a Necro more sustain than your Heavy Armor + Endure Pain/Berserker Stance does, you’re dreaming. It just looked flashier, ergo, it must be better, right?
The only problem I have with Thieves and stealth, is that stealth can’t be taken off the thief for any reason.
I’d say treat stealth like it was a Boon that cannot have its duration changed unless otherwise stated, and make stealth able to get removed from the thief like any other boon in the game.
Bam. Stealth is fixed.
As a 0/5/3/0/6 Greatsword Warrior in WvW, this nerf is gonna sting, but maybe not all too badly.
The new Burst Skill looks nice and quick, and if I’m going to be losing my Adrenaline at the end of a fight, I might as well pop it as a finishing move (which apparently does additional damage if the target is under 50% HP). I feel a couple of Warrior builds had to ruin the whole class for everyone, but a necessary nerf is a necessary nerf.
The only people who are going to “retire” their Warriors are those who never liked the flavor of the class, and only stuck around for their place on the food chain.
Wall-O-Text inbound:
PvE
- Aggro system with actual roles players can perform in PvE content that isn’t “Stack or git kicked”. I want to feel like boss fights are STRATEGICAL events that have actual mechanics, that will actually punish players for not doing them.
- Make Toughness actually HELP players shave off damage in PvE, as opposed to just being the first one to die in the group, but hold his own for 0.2 second faster.
I am sick and tired of “Full Zerker gear check, or kick”. It is completely idiotic, and the dungeons NEED to be designed to put the hammer on full zerker idiots.
- Make the normal dungeons as hard as Fractal level 10. Dungeons are a kittenwalk to complete. Make players earn their tokens/daily gold, but do it with actually entertaining encounters. Again, a lot of the Fractals are perfect examples on how NORMAL dungeons should operate.
WvWvW
Change the overall structure of WvW. I know, scary. I just feel WvW isn’t turning out to be the server based war game Anet wanted it to be. Instead of players defending their turf and spending points to upgrade, instead the game turns into a perpetual game of ring around the rosie. Just run in circles, cap locations, and move on to the next, all while the other two servers do the same.
Give players insentive to push/capture server Keeps by making them near defensless without supporting Towers to aid them. By making Keeps naturally easy to capture without Towers, you give more value to Towers, making them WORTHWHILE things to defend. This creates a domino effect, where now Camps are WORTHWHILE things to defend, since they are the only way Towers are going to get the resources needed to upgrade them.
Also, PLEASE get rid of gold costs for seige weapon blueprints. in exchange for a different WvW currency. Make it so players can only recieve this currency for successfully defending points, helping transport resources, getting rid of infestation, fighting a WvW world boss, ect (pretty much all of those WvW events that NO ONE DOES). Again, this gives these events actual value, and are important to the core game.
New stuff
- New race
- New classes (2 would be a good number)
- New list of traits for ALL tiers
- New weapon types (spears for land fighting, perhaps? Or just call them Halberds if you NEED to keep them separate)
- New, changeable weapon skills for pre-existing weapons
- New skills/abilities for every class
- New trait tree for every class (wishful thinking on my part)
- New map locations
- New dungeons with weapon/armor skins for them
Thief’s put a lot of pressure on an enemy, often unannounced, forcing them to react quickly. Many classes are unable handle that sort of pressure and thus cave in quickly.
fify
Sorry, but Sigil stacking was completely out of hand for EVERY class. There is a reason most everyone ran their off-weapon sets with one.
Once necros get infinite Life Force at the start of every fight, Warriors always have max Adrenaline, Thieves can Mug whenever, and Mesmers have all three clones out at once is when Eles can have zero attunement cooldown.
But I can sort of understand reducing the base CD to 10 seconds, though.