Percentages scale with numbers. 10% will ALWAYS be 10%, no matter how many people you throw into the fray.
A group of 5 zerkers will be hit just as hard as a group of 100 zerkers. Their overall DPS will be dropped by 10%.
What ANet have done is tip the scales a bit, and made Condition builds more viable. Zerkers are still dishing out 10% less damage, but just so Condition builds can compete. Running a group of 5 Zerkers is still just as viable as ever, only it isn’t going to hurt your group DPS nearly as bad if 1 or 2 (or all) of the players are also running condition.
Change it so that you gain heal just on hit on HS. Thats my 50 cent.
Fine by me. 100blades spam inside Zergs will make me even more tanky than I already am. That would be a buff for my build.
Well, that sucks. I was hoping for something interesting, and instead we got Grandmaster Traits in spots they don’t even belong in.
How Burst Precision isn’t a Discipline trait (the one DESIGNED around Burst attacks), is beyond me…
For a profession that already has the highest tier HP, heavy armor, extreme/great damage, extreme distance coverage (making them able to just laugh if they get anywhere near low health as they zip away)—that they also have some of the strongest HP/s in the game is frustrating. They are already strong as-is. Why should Warriors get to have the Mango Pie and eat it too? Why aren’t there any gives and takes? My Warrior gets to be good at everything all at once. I don’t like it, and I sure don’t like fighting against it on my other characters.
ftfy
The fact of the matter is that the Warrior is a class that relies on optimal building to be a powerhouse. Before the Warrior got buffed to relevancy, the class was absolute trash for two reasons:
1) ZERO sustain
2) Very little options to break CC
These two things alone sent Warriors to the pits time and time again, and people would literally /laugh at Warriors in any PvP setting. Because of this, Warriors needed to spec in a fashion that worked against their main weakness. Dogged March was introduced, and while it isn’t much in the way of amazing by itself, utilizing your full armor runes with Lyssa, you could remedy the Warrior’s problem against CC at the cost of your full Rune set.
The problem with sustain remained, however. Healing Signet was literally USELESS for the first half of the game. It needed a buff to be viable, and the Warrior really didn’t have too many great options for Healing Skills (outside of HS, they STILL don’t. Who the hell cares if you can regen your Adrenaline when it fills up fast already?). Adrenal Health was added in so that Warriors going down the Defense line had some sustain, and it was INTENDED for HS to work hand and hand with Adrenal Health.
Keep in mind, Warriors sacrifice a decent amount of damage for their current defensive properties everyone loves to moan about. Can I survive and possibly heal the damage I soaked up in a zerg by running away for a bit? Sure. But Healing Signet doesn’t really play into that, since disengaging combat fills your lifebar up in less than 5 seconds. HS does, however, give me a few precious moments INSIDE the zerg, so that I can try to make some difference in the fight with the asinine amount of NO SKILL AoE spam that swallows fights whole. Sorry, but just because you and 4 other Eles decided to each drop a Meteor Shower in the middle of a red blob does NOT mean you are entitled to a bunch of free bags.
8% reduction in HS shouldn’t make/break you, and if it will, you relied on it WAY too much. This is literally the only confirmed nerf to come from the announcement, and everything else is just there for the sake of build diversity.
At least wait for an actual reason to complain before crying on the forums.
Because 99% of the people playing this game are really bad.
It is literally impossibly for 99% of an entire player pool to be bad. Learn what averages are, and how they work.
The fact of the matter is that thieves are tied for most annoying class to fight in the game next to Mesmers. Guess what both classes have in common…
D/D is considered one of the most balanced and “fair” stealth builds a Thief can make, and I run little trouble downing players when I run it. D/P or P/D is literally GW2 cancer.
I wouldn’t mind an F2 skill for ALL off-hand weapons, to be honest. Make it so X/Axe,Sword,Mace do an attack with feeds off of both weapons, and make shield have an F2 skill that allows directional block, as you stated.
However, this directional block would have to drain your Adrenaline meter faster than a trophy wife to a bank account, and wouldn’t technically count as a burst skill. You’d be surprised how taxing blocking attacks with a shield can be on a person.
I know the general rule of thumb in these forums are to complain first, then think later, but I don’t feel people should be getting bent out of shape because Anet are trying to add build diversity to the game. The whole point to these traits (at least from what I gather) are to NOT improve what currently works, and instead shake things up.
Obviously, some of these new traits may end up helping older builds, but lets at least wait until we see a full list of trait changes before people start accusing Anet of being incompetent. Especially when we haven’t even had a chance to play around with new build ideas.
You know Warriors have no defenses outside of their healing and armor, right? Avoiding damage in this game is FAR more effective than passive damage mitigation. Shadow’s Rejuvination in conjunction with Hide in Shadow & Blinds will always mitigate damage better than HS and armor ever could. I don’t thieves realize just how strong disableing your opponents target from you really is, especially when you never lose target in the process (and thats not even taking into the fact you are complete invisible).
I’m not saying Thieves don’t need stealth to survive. I am saying their ability to remedy any and all mistakes through it is too kitten much. Reduce healing in stealth, and Thieves will now have to be punished for getting hit in the first place (as it should be).
As you said disabling your opponents counts as a defensive maneuver, so I’m pretty sure that you’ll agree that stunning, knocking down and knocking back your opponents counts as defensive mechanisms, especially when said ccs hit the whole enemy party and cooldowns are so low.
Warrior also get massive hp, good regeneration from HS and Adrenal Health, 10 seconds of condition immunity with berserker stance, -10% damage from Dolyak Signet, stability from Dolyak Signet and Balanced Stance both working also as stun break, almost permanent weakness from Fierce Blow, small blind and immobilize from longbow. Also they get to cleanse 3 conditions every 7 seconds. These are the defenses that warrior has in the build I’m using, so I’d say that they definitely have more defenses outside their healing and armor. Keep in mind they get all of this while doing damage while thief has to sit in stealth if he wants to regenerate and cleanse and even then warrior simply gets more.
Then they can also get additional cleanses through warhorn, Shrug it off, Shake it off and Signet of Stamina, additional disables with Physical skills and Fear Me, invulnerability with Endure Pain and Defy Pain and additional stability and stun break from Last Stand, disabling conditions reduction from Dogged March and additional regeneration…
On warrior you can hold your ground on a point against 2 opponents and 3 opponents for some time, this is something on thief you can’t do. First, thief’s blind don’t work all that well against ranged and aoes. Second, stealth don’t hold a point making the whole battle pointless and letting me die anyway because of aoes and cleave weapons.
I think the part you are forgetting is that Ham/Bow is a single broken build for the Warrior and Healing Signet is already confirmed to reducing healing by 8%. God forbid someone uses something else, like GS, Axe, Sword, or Mace, they really don’t benefit from much of what you posted, because they NEED full adrenaline to actually dish out damage , whereas any Thief build can benefit from going heavy into Shadow Arts. Honestly, the only thief build that requires a lick of skill is Sword/X. Dagger/X or Pistol/X is stupidly easy to win with. If only Shortbow was viable, though.
If these people who claim thief to be OP ever played a thief, they would realize that trying to enter the fight in sPvP while capping a point that has a 2v2 or 3v3 going on can be deadly. We have stealth and evades so we can get away from dying so easily!!! If we did not have these skills we would surely be KO’d in seconds from any class that has some sort of zerker cc or conditions even! Most of our condition removal is in stealth!
I have a tendency to tell each Warrior which says that Thief is OP to reroll something else, because he’s beyond saving.
I have an 80 Thief, an 80 Warrior, and close to getting my Elementalist to 80.
Thief is BY FAR the easiest class of these three to play in PvP. The QQ is sound. I suggest YOU try playing a class that doesn’t have two reliable escapes on hand at nearly all times, and then tell me thieves aren’t an uphill fight from the get go.
The biggest culprit is the asinine amount of healing Thieves get while in stealth. This wouldn’t be too much a problem if they didn’t also have an abundant access to blinds as well. There have been many times I dropped a thief (and have been dropped) to 10% health just to regen most of it back in little time, and continue fighting while his opponent is still heavily hurt.
You know that warriors heal much more while out of stealth with 0 healing power, right?
You know Warriors have no defenses outside of their healing and armor, right? Avoiding damage in this game is FAR more effective than passive damage mitigation. Shadow’s Rejuvination in conjunction with Hide in Shadow & Blinds will always mitigate damage better than HS and armor ever could. I don’t thieves realize just how strong disableing your opponents target from you really is, especially when you never lose target in the process (and thats not even taking into the fact you are complete invisible).
I’m not saying Thieves don’t need stealth to survive. I am saying their ability to remedy any and all mistakes through it is too kitten much. Reduce healing in stealth, and Thieves will now have to be punished for getting hit in the first place (as it should be).
Yes we can have all of this healing but if u go for all of this healing you don’t kill anyone.
You don’t need all of it, that’s the problem. You only need 1 or 2, and with a combination of blinds/stealth, you’re going to be tanky as hell. This is even without needing healing gear, so all the people claiming “you’ll hit like a wet noodle” are wrong. Most of your damage comes straight from gear stats.
If these people who claim thief to be OP ever played a thief, they would realize that trying to enter the fight in sPvP while capping a point that has a 2v2 or 3v3 going on can be deadly. We have stealth and evades so we can get away from dying so easily!!! If we did not have these skills we would surely be KO’d in seconds from any class that has some sort of zerker cc or conditions even! Most of our condition removal is in stealth!
I have a tendency to tell each Warrior which says that Thief is OP to reroll something else, because he’s beyond saving.
I have an 80 Thief, an 80 Warrior, and close to getting my Elementalist to 80.
Thief is BY FAR the easiest class of these three to play in PvP. The QQ is sound. I suggest YOU try playing a class that doesn’t have two reliable escapes on hand at nearly all times, and then tell me thieves aren’t an uphill fight from the get go.
The biggest culprit is the asinine amount of healing Thieves get while in stealth. This wouldn’t be too much a problem if they didn’t also have an abundant access to blinds as well. There have been many times I dropped a thief (and have been dropped) to 10% health just to regen most of it back in little time, and continue fighting while his opponent is still heavily hurt.
The problem with healing singet is not any specific build its the heal itself. Compare it to any other heal in the game and its way better. Singet of restoration from ele. 200hp per cast each auto attack takes 1 second. So you have to actively cast to get half of healing singet. If ele had hs people would call it op. If guard had 400+ hps on top of thier f whatever healing and the big elite heal they would be considered op. Mesmer singet has to have 3 clones out to still get considerable less than hs. Mesmer with striaght 400 hps all the time would be op. The only comparable heal to healing singet is healing turret from engi which is also one of the reasons condi bunker decap engi is so annoying in spvp as well.
Except you are wrong in the grand scheme of things. This is why I roll my eyes at the cries for Warrior nerfs when people compared hard numbers with other classes, and forget to take into consideration the other X, Y, and Z factors as well.
Eles get a heal every time they cast a spell. Every auto attack, every ability they manually trigger, and every Arcane ability dropped WILL tick that heal. As an Ele, if you aren’t dropping some form of attack every second, you’re playing the class wrong anyways. This isn’t even taking into account the spells and passive attunement healing they get from the Water attunements (just swapping to it on certain builds heals 800 HP alone, before a spell is even cast), and the fact that Eles have lots of ranged abillities available to them. Lets not forget protection through Auras and access to blinds if you decide to go D/D. But comparing Eles to Warriors is bad anyways, because Eles are in need of a buff, while Warrior is just were it needs to be if you go anything but Ham/Bow (which ALONE needs a nerf, not anything else).
Just something to consider. Also remember that most Warriors using HS are also traited with Adrenal Health, which is its own passive healing completely separate from HS (but most people just assume its the signet itself doing all the ticks).
Shockwave will not hit a moving target. Unreliable.
Erruption will not hit moving target. Unreliable
Lightning surge is decent, but 10sec cooldown. Can not sustain with it.
Gust unreliable unless on top of target.
Ice Spike will not hit a moving target. Unreliable
Arcane skills = 20-30sec cooldown, can not sustain
Fire skills- will not hit moving targets, Fireball is decent damage but if target jumps or side steps, you miss, now have 1 sec cast time again.but like I said, after your burst rotation an ele is a sitting duck because you had to blow your CC’s in order to land your burst, if it lands.
I believe ele would be in a good spot if other classes were toned down, as they will buffed as the ele was nerfed every patch.
First off, every skill mentioned is plenty reliable. It is up to the Ele to time his attacks peroperly, and they have more than enough supporting skills within those attunementz to help make sure those attacks stick. If your aim is bad or you are terrible at skill shots, it is a player skill issue and nothing more.
Second, if I clearly stated that TRAITED arcane skills have low CD (16-24 Seconds), and if heavy into Arcane, hit like a wrecking ball with attunement effects. And can ALWAYS be casted no matter what state the Elementalist is in.
The fact of the matter is that you should be timing your skills and attunement swaps acccordingly. If your “burst rotation” involves needlessly swapping attunements to spam every attack you have to offer, you are playing Ele very VERY wrong.
(edited by McFribble.2349)
Make 100 Blades the Burst skill, let the Warrior move at 50% speed while doing it, making each level of burst determine the number of swings.
Make Arcing Slice the new skill 2 for more reliable fury stacks.
Now Warriors won’t be quite as OP in PvE, and GS will be more reliable (and viable) in PvP.
As I stood there getting hit by a mesmer greatsword auto from 1200 away noting it it for 600-1k a tick I thought, arn’t eles meant to be the true casters of this game? I mean we’re on the low hp and low armour tables, so that must mean we should be most damaging at range yes?
I really don’t get what they wanted elementalists to be in this game
Realistically they should have faster, spammable ranged damage.
If a thief catches you unaware at melee then you should be the dead one, if you catch him unaware at ranged then he should be the dead one. Currently if you have a staff equipped and a thief sees you, it’s over. Coming from playing a thief, the only thing easier than killing an ele, was a staff ele.
And scepter autos…don’t even start with that, fire auto attack, a 1 1/4 cast time? Truthfully, has anyone ever switched to scepter, cast phoenix and whatever else is on 4+5 and then thought, maybe i’ll get in a few autos…..? I didn’t think so.
Then dagger auto attacks, we all know that air is the only one worth using, out of all four atunements using anything but air is just such a huge drop in dps.
So if you’re going to keep the elementalist such a punching bag for everyone, at least make them more dangerous at range without having to be absolutely paper.
Sounds exactly like the Warrior forums a year ago. Just wait for the next balance patch, and I’m sure Eles will be on the QQ list for months to come.
I really wonder why thieves, who already is in medium armor, has more access to spammable blinds and evades even though they already have easy access to stealth.
Because the Thief can’t nuke someone with heavy hitting attacks from a good range away. This is MMO balance 101.
However, don’t get me started on how stupid the stealth system in this game is.
People don’t realize that the burst from an ele is a huge cost to it. Meaning if it is dodge or misses you are now on 20+ seconds of dealing mediocre damage and are open for being focused. Ele is not running around like thief porting in and out of combat hitting for 3-12k damage. One random dodge or ageis will throw your whole combo off and now you have to keep pressure on with auto attacks that barely break 1k damage.
Or you could switch Attunements, and keep dishing out
hard hits with great utility… Lets not act like Elementalists don’t have cool downs on par with almost every other class in the game, AND have access to four weapon skill bars on the fly. I’m not saying Eles are amazing, but part of the problem I see with a lot of Eles in WvW is that they stick to one attunement and never switch. It is the equivalent of a Warrior who never switches weapons; it makes zero sense.Please explain these hard hitting abilities in other attunements that you have available after your burst rotation. You cannot sustain in combat as well as other classes while their autos apply massive condis or damage. While you just burned 3 attunements, where usually the only one open is water, or wait a few seconds for earth or air to pop back up.
Earth:
Shockwave: Decent damage with a nice bleed, that immobilizes your target
Erruption: Good damage and a 3k (minimum) bleed
Air:
Lightening Surge: Good damage and causes blindness
+ a movement and stun skill for heavy escapes
Water:
Ice Spike: Decent damage and causes Vulnerability with 5 stacks.
Fire:
All of it hurts.
This isn’t even taking into consideration that you can activate Arcane skills while knocked down/stunned or without canceling your channels, and if traited, will be used just as often as your weapon skills. This means you’ll always have Arcane Blast available no matter what attunement you currently have.
The Problem with ele:
1) forced into Water and Arcane trait lines
2) forced into Toughness and Vitality gear
3) Insane cool downs on defensive skills that are WORSE than comparable ones of other classes who also deal better damage, have more health, have more armor and more sustainability.Some classes have no need to switch. A Hammer warrior for example, Most Thief builds for another example. I could EASILY go whole fights on my other classes without even needing to think about switching weapon – Ele have no choice thanks to the fact they have insane cool downs on weapon skills that mean they are mostly just auto attacking most of the time.
Our attunements will NOT save us. It will simply delay the inevitable against certain builds/classes.
1. Kind of like how Warriors (the class everyone likes to kitten about) are forced into Defense? But its okay (and even OP) if other classes do it.
2. You aren’t FORCED into any gear. If you think full Zerker Warriors (again, because people LOVE to complain) with no traits or points in Defense are still able to take hits without going down, you are delusional. This is taking into consideration that Warriors actually need to enter zergs to fight, where Eles can safely bomb zergs from the rear lines.
3. You got only ONE thing right on this one; the cool downs are too kitten long. But to think they are WORSE is laughable. Sure, other classes may be able to deal more single target damage by the numbers, but Ele is still king of AoE damage, and can dish it out uninterrupted from a large distance away.
You say some classes don’t need to switch to win in a fight. Well, Eles are no different. In both cases, the players of both classes are idiots for not utilizing the benefits with ZERO tradeoffs for having a second set of weapons skill (4 in the Eles case).
Again, Eles are not an easy class to win with. They may be on the lower end of the class “tier list” due to long cool downs on good defensive skills. They are FAR from useless however, and with the right map positioning and knowing your attunements left and right, Eles can be a powerhouse.
Actually, thieves need major nerfs, while eles only need minor buffs.
All they need is a 30-40second cool down on Backstab. The skill hits for WAY to much for it not to have a cool down, well i guess the 4 second delay on being able to use stealth again is a minor cool down. But for a skill that can hit up to 16k+ It needs to be at least 30-40seconds.
A skill that requires the player to be positioned behind his target, within stealth, and needs to be traited to assure a crit, is hardly in need of a ridiculously long cool down, let alone 30-40 (more than some heavy duty utility skills in this game). I know everyone has been on the thief hate train since this games release, but lets not “fix” something by breaking it. Actively nerfing a skill into uselessness is NOT how one fixes a game, no matter how much YOU dislike it.
People don’t realize that the burst from an ele is a huge cost to it. Meaning if it is dodge or misses you are now on 20+ seconds of dealing mediocre damage and are open for being focused. Ele is not running around like thief porting in and out of combat hitting for 3-12k damage. One random dodge or ageis will throw your whole combo off and now you have to keep pressure on with auto attacks that barely break 1k damage.
Or you could switch Attunements, and keep dishing out hard hits with great utility… Lets not act like Elementalists don’t have cool downs on par with almost every other class in the game, AND have access to four weapon skill bars on the fly. I’m not saying Eles are amazing, but part of the problem I see with a lot of Eles in WvW is that they stick to one attunement and never switch. It is the equivalent of a Warrior who never switches weapons; it makes zero sense.
Wow, as if fights weren’t long winded kitten shows as is…
Why nerf crit damage? It makes no sense and literally NOBODY gets any benefit for it outside of Condition builds.
Now stacking toughness/power is going to be a good option for every class. Why play glass cannon when your cannonball is essentially missing?
You know a build is stupid strong when a D/P thief can fight 3 people at once, and walk away whenever he wants. Hell, screw walking away, they can keep on fighting and act like they’’ve never been hit with how much health regen they get in stealth.
dp is def and strong set but if 3 people can’t beat 1 dp thief(assuming they are spec for right) they are bad thats all there is to it.
The problem isn’t player skill. The fact of the matter is that D/P gets to completely control the flow of the fight when they want. At no moment can you be stopped going into stealth, and from there it is invisible wack-a-mole to whoever the D/P thief is fighting. Some classes rely on their long cooldowns in order to win, and playing guessing games against an invisible opponent (who is getting back a huge % of health every second while stealthed, mind you) makes for a very tiring fight that no one wants to do.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard so much complaining about half a second for a cast time in any MMO I have ever played. GW2 Thieves really are a jaded bunch, aren’t they?
Outstanding generalisation skills. Btw actually I don’t play my thief anymore, just because I found out warrior is much better in every aspect, except for evading angry mobs. Does that mean that warriors are a jaded bunch, since I am against an unjustified and poorly executed nerf?
Because God forbid a thief has to actually TIME his hard escapes. Thieves have more than enough escape mechanics for multiple builds, that a 0.5 (ZERO POINT FIVE) cast time is hardly a setback.
You know a build is stupid strong when a D/P thief can fight 3 people at once, and walk away whenever he wants. Hell, screw walking away, they can keep on fighting and act like they’’ve never been hit with how much health regen they get in stealth.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard so much complaining about half a second for a cast time in any MMO I have ever played. GW2 Thieves really are a jaded bunch, aren’t they?
I honestly feel that 80% of the complaints regarding HS are because of condi warriors and LB. I know I’m going to rile up some folks but at least hear me out and keep in mind this is in regard to sPvP only. The basic premise of buffing HS in the first place was to help add some sustain to the Warrior class which it desperately needed…..especially when it was focused on power builds. With a classic zerker build, or even a PTV build, you are dependent upon being in your opponents face as much as possible to deal damage. Playing too defensively only leads to less damage output and often more damaged received. Without HS power based warriors, in my opinion, take a rather significant nerf……In fact the expected nerf to HS will have a much bigger impact on them then it will to condi/LB warriors.
Why? Because conditions and LB allow you to apply a good deal of condition damage extremely easily and you can play defensively while they tick away doing significant damage the whole time. You have essentially given a class that depends on high armor and HP pool access to tons of condition damage and great sustain. You easily can go with a heavy emphasis on Toughness and Vitality with Condition Damage as the easy achieved cherry on top. Perhaps against classes with tons of condition removal this setup might not be as successful but against those with even “good” amounts of removal it ends up not being enough.
The difference between warriors who are running LB and/or condition builds versus those who don’t is rather severe. It is almost like two entirely different classes if you ask me. I’ve fought plenty of other warriors and those that are running without a LB and/or condi builds….well lets just say that HS really is not a big deal. Fighting the ones that run LB and/or condi builds is much different. They have such an easy time of applying and maintaining conditions that even if you start to get an upperhand on them they can back off and kite around while bleeds or torment do their thing…..all the while that HS is just ticking. It’s the ability to still do damage while avoiding any that is a problem.
Can other classes do this? Yea they can but they also are not running around in heavy armor with Toughness through the roof and a massive HP pool. When a guy in pajamas is applying dots and kiting me around its one thing…..when Arnold Schwarzenegger is doing it its another. Yes, I play warrior and yes I’m concerned with my class. Proposed changes to HS along with a potential nerf to +crit damage has a much more significant impact to power warrior builds and if anything are going to promote even more condi/LB warriors in sPvP…..and that is not a good thing!
I’m completely prepared for flames but I would simply ask if you could keep them classy!
150% this. As a Warrior running GS/Axe, I end up dying pretty frequently even with partial Knight gear, Malandru Runes, and HS against someone who knows what they’re doing (AS IT SHOULD BE).
If there is a problem with a particular build, then balance out that build. Don’t nerf the class as a whole because one build is too efficient.
Play what you want. There is literally zero reason to min/max in this game, as surviving encounters with something you are comfortable playing is FAR more important than raw numbers on a build you don’t like (and could get you killed).
The difference between pure optimized cookie cutter dungeon groups vs. A group playing whatever they want is the difference between mere minutes of playtime. That’s really all.
The only thing that is “broken” about stealth is how much health regen Thieves get inside it. Thats pretty much it. Take out the Health Regen trait for something else, and stealth is completely balanced.
Shadow’s Rejuvenation: Remove and swap with something different (something like reviving players at twice the speed while in stealth)
Shadow Protector: Only apply to allies instead of allies and self. Almost every Thief skill that grants stealth offers some form of protection/healing ALREADY. (Blind is the best defensive skill in the game).
This is all that really should be changed (but not needed). Stealth is REALLY good, but not OP.
So, I play a D/D Thief in sPvP most of the time. I usually can handle Warriors okay – if I can’t take them down, I can usually manage to get away from them. But not this guy. This guy continually kicked my a** across the map.
I’ve figured out a good portion of the build, but I’m curious what the rest of this build involved.
It was Axe + Shield/Greatsword. Healing Signet, Dolyak Signet, Berserker Stance, Endure Pain, Signet of Rage.
He managed to take little damage, deal out a respectable DPS, have around 27k health, and also throw out some conditions (especially Chill). I assume the Chill was a result of a Sigil of Hydromancy.
But what about the rest of it? Is this a common build that I’m just missing? What are the traits/runes that go with this build?
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-t7wg;1NKkP0g4NL-60;9;9;9;331c
Please don’t respond with “WARRIORS ARE OP.” I’m sincerely interested in what build this was. Thanks!
Better question. What is YOUR build? Please link, with armor and everything. A lot of the times, people complain because they run full Glass Cannon and wonder why a Warrior build designed to take down glass cannons are dominating them.
Warriors were always fine in WvW.
The buffs just made them grossly overpowered compared to everyone else.
Warriors cannot be OP in WvW but not s/tPvP. It literally cannot happen. Adding an extra hundred bodies to the mix doesn’t change a thing other than the number of people you’re fighting at a time, in which case, ranged AoE classes get the most bang for it.
There is no skill or trait that comes to mind for a Warrior that actually gets better the more people he is fighting.
People are seriously complaining about Outnumbered? Most games wouldn’t even try to benefit you for having less players on your side.
The solution? Join a WvW guild, and stop leaving WvW when the buff pops up. You are only making the problem worse when you do.
“I want to feel cool and take on 10 people by myself.”
No. This is not how PvP works. The only thing I would say MIGHT work without breaking the game too badly is giving a SMALL stat buff to Outnumbered servers.
+10% Increase on all stats when outnumbered.
+2% Damage Dealt
-2% Damage Taken
^ That is even a lot.
Warriors were a joke in PvP for a while. Now they’re viable. If a patch came out that made another class strong after a huge lul period of being bad to play, you can bet your bottom dollar that is all you’d see as well.
Warriors are flavor of the patch. Like Mesmers were for months before the Confusion nerf (which was absolutely needed).
I love how people are complaining about tanky support builds being tanky, and supportive.
Really, it is hilarious.
It’s cute that you people would even try to argue that Warrior isn’t OP. The End.
Why? Because they can soak up an insane amount damage while afking in the middle of a small group and dish it out at an insane rate too while dashing all over the place? It’s what OP Warriors DO.
Thieves are annoying kittens who fight dirty with stealth. Even though most classes played well can make them run (unless the are god mode), still every guild raid group should have 1 for scouting.
Mesmers are tricky kittens that literally clone themselves and can turn invisible (which is great for tpvp and roaming, or they can also stand around and do nothing unless it’s a portal bomb or veil for all I care).
Guardians are kings of giving me more boons to make me even more OP.
Elementalists hit hard with a 1 trick ranged AoE and give me water fields in WvW, I don’t want them anywhere else though.
Necromancers are tanky condition spewing nightmares, which is easily countered in anything other that small conflicts. They literally have a second life/dps bar and no mobility, easy to CC….but they can take damage almost as good as us until they die.
Honestly, the only classes who should be complaining are Rangers and Engineers. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one I couldn’t at least come close to killing with each of my toons.
Broke.
Sorry you got in a fistacuffs match with a Warrior and lost. Perhaps try using your class strengths to your advantage next time, instead of trying to outdo a class at what it does best?
It’s cute that you people would even try to argue that Warrior isn’t OP. The End.
Why? Because they can soak up an okay amount and damage and dish it out as well? It’s what Warriors DO.
Thieves are annoying kittens who fight dirty with stealth.
Mesmers are tricky kittens that literally clone themselves and can turn invisible.
Guardians are kings of protection and eating hits
Elementalists hit hard with ranged AoE, and have access to more skills at all times than any other class in the game.
Necromancers are tanky condition spewing nightmares you literally have a second life/dps bar.
Honestly, the only classes who should be comaining are Rangers and Engineers. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one I couldn’t at least come close to killing with each of my toons.
What disturbs me is that a warrior running berserker amulet can have some level of substained defense as a elementalist running clerks amulet. I don’t think warriors are overpowered but other classes surely need some buffs so they can fight on the same level.
talking about lockdowns there is no such thing in this game it seems there is so much stability and easy ways for melee classes to catch you it’s kitten. If warriors are supose to have this high armor/health/healing/damage midigation I think it would be reasonable to be able to lock them down aswell. I play elementalist mainly and I can say that it would be a BIG relief to get a breather every now and then when fighting a warrior as it is now you guys just pop your stances and steamroll, no fun at all.
Funny. Here I thought all of those stuns and CC was actually happening, just at a reduced rate with the help of runes that are available to all classes…
So speccing and building to counter heavy CC is now officially OP ladies and gentlemen. Dota/League have clouded people’s minds…
Warriors become “OP” after years of being pretty bad in PvP, and the players having to put in 110% to win through consintration, and proper character building.
Now, Warriors are on par with everyone else in PvP, but they still put in the 110%.
A profession that does little outside pestering the enemy and pwning in 1v1’s
Lol. Pestering and pwning in 1v1s gives far more satisfaction and is much more rewarding than taking some impersonal tower or keep.
1v1s are what really matter from an emotional point of view. Group play is overrated.
Said every Call of Duty Xbro in the world.
Thieves are hard to catch? They can stealth too much? They also have (one) of the lowest HP pools, and also are one of the squishiest classes.
You are just clueless if you think so. Roll a real thief build and see how squishy you actually are xD.
You mean how even with full Vit/Toughness gear they can only manage to get 18k HP even with food?
My Warrior gets that in full Zerker and not a single point on Vit. Yes, Thieves ARE squishy. They just have a lot of evasive options. Learn the difference.
If you feel that you are somehow “easy to kill” / “squishy” as a thief, you are just a bad player. I’m not even a good thief yet I hardly ever die. If I do it’s because I did something super stupid. (like ran to legendary defenders)
Learn the difference.
I have already: evasion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> face tanking.
You are denying that Thieves can’t take much abuse before dying. That is what squishy means. Try to save face all you want, but you are wrong, plain and simple.
AVOIDING an attack is very different from eating one. And under the right circumstances, any class can force a Thief to eat a hefty number of attacks either killing him or forcing him to run away.
Thieves are hard to catch? They can stealth too much? They also have (one) of the lowest HP pools, and also are one of the squishiest classes.
You are just clueless if you think so. Roll a real thief build and see how squishy you actually are xD.
You mean how even with full Vit/Toughness gear they can only manage to get 18k HP even with food?
My Warrior gets that in full Zerker and not a single point on Vit. Yes, Thieves ARE squishy. They just have a lot of evasive options. Learn the difference.
To fix perma-stealth they could just make heart-seeker a 20% chance of being a leap finisher.
Or they could just prevent stacking stealth while in stealth. You know, stop the problem akittens source?
The simple solution is to make any weapon skill usage cause reveal rather than only ones that hit. This would prevent the Smoke Screen / Cluster Bomb combo from granting unlimited stealth without destroying the stealth mechanic itself.
I find this solution acceptable and while it would change the way I play my thief it would be a small change and I myself (despite playing a thief) do believe that perma-stealth should not be possible.
^^ I agree with this, but making it on missed attack would not work at all. Infinite stealth IS bogus and shouldn’t exist, but there is no reason why a missed attack should screw up an entire build when skill lag is still a very OBVIOUS issue in this game.
Infinite stealth does need to go, though.
I find it very hard to believe that Warriors are putting themselves in a potision to have their Boons taken from them in the first place. A S/D Thief is designed to steal boons. He does little else. So a common sense counter to this is to NOT use skills that offer boons against a build designed to steal them.
…And that’s it. You just countered the S/D Thief. Instead of Frenzy, use Stomp and laugh as you knock that Thief out of Refuge.
If you don’t like the idea of NOT using Signet of Rage against a build that is meant to counter the effects that specific skill happens to produce, take the banner. Banners have a great mechanic where the boons last a short time, but restack every few seconds. The Thief will rip your boons only for them to last 3 seconds, and yours are constantly reapplied. At the very worst, it keeps both you and the Thief on equal footing with what boons you have.
Or again, you can go the common sense route and simply adapt to your opposition by not rely so heavily on Boons in the wake of CC tools that will make a S/D either get swarmed by your teammates or run away with his tail between his legs.
(edited by McFribble.2349)
It gives 3 seconds of Fury/5 Might/Swiftness every 3 seconds for 30 seconds.
This way its harder to steal.
Or you could simply NOT pop it against a S/D Thief. There is always that.
Something big? Biger then Quickness nerf? Quickness is now +50% attack speed it was +100% before nerf… (its double if you have problems with math)
Just because the speed was cut in half doesn’t make Quickness bad. It just means it isn’t pant-on-head strong. Quickness NEEDED to be nerfed, and even post nerf, it is still very good. Just proves the change was just.
What, was OP expecting anything better than every other chest in the game?
WvW chests contain EXACTLY what people need for WvW; Badges and Blueprints. Anything else is just free $$$.
WvW DOES = Zerg fights. The problem is that you seem to think “zergs” are a bad thing. You can demonize the term all you want, but in the end of the day, zergs are nothing more than a large group of people working together towards a common goal. Sorry you hate teamwork in a large scale team-oriented game. There are other PvP options available to you, and I’d suggest you use them.
Zergs <> teamwork…its pretty obvious you didn’t play much other MMOs
Please explain how zergs =/= teamwork.
Zergs:
-Require a large number of players
-Roaming together
-Attacking together
-Healing/Assisting one another
-Taking the same objective
This is basically be the definition of teamwork. You sure have a skewed perception of the word.