Guild Wars 2

Bleh that ruins a little idea i had with it owell :P

Quick question does the torment on heal work with Power Return (the charge skill of the mantra heal) and if so is there any internal cooldown on the rune?

Cheers

Honestly i think all clones that are on their way to shatter should be invulnerable in PvE and PvP. They should still be blockable, stunable, crippled just not outright killed. Almost every other classes damage skills (apart from rangers and necro minions but they are a seprate boat) can’t be “killed” unless you kill the character.

can someone post a screen shot of someone using i haven’t seen one yet?

Are they harder to see at all.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Pendragon.8735:

For people that enjoy being sentries, there is nothing stopping them from doing it, and it already gave an advantage like it should as it was. The swords couldn’t tell you how many attackers (could even be more than 25 just not all attacking) what kind of siege was up, what kind of defenses were there, you needed human intel for that, great.

But it shouldn’t be mandatory at every location, and this makes it nearly so. If a zerg hits and you don’t have notification for 30 seconds, good chance you lost it. Especially now with WxP already having made less waypoints and upgrades around most maps.

It should be basic to have a scout at every structure.

If you are not placing a scout in your towers/keeps, you deserve to loose.

In the higher teirs where im guessing you play and where i play its easy to do that, but remember lower teirs can’t afford to do that sort of stuff kinda kills it for them. And its not scouting its guarding and sentry duty. Scouting is whatt you do when you go and check out what the enemy has standing around sucking your thumb in your tower is being a sentry

Caliban.3176:

Kolisch.4691:

Those 3 will be useless once intelligent people (not the stupid zerg that goes omg we can’t stand in this circle, we’re doomed!) start putting a catapult far from the arrow carts.

Lol, 15 points in the rank ability line and you have a huge range increase for Arrow Carts. Many good cata spots will become useless as well.

Doesnt help if you cant see it to target it, unless your using zoom hacks. All those ACS placed on the floor by the supply huts are gonna be deadly now (and they were very deadly as it was already)

Ruprect.7260:

VOLKON.1290:

The “under attack” notice at objectives now displays 30 seconds after it is first attacked. Does not affect waypoint usage.

Well, better place guards in all your towers and camps now, it’s become ridiculously easy for the zerg to flip areas and you never know it’s happening. So, designate people to go into WvW and sit there for who knows how long, watching all the gates, …

This was not well thought out.

It means the exact opposite, you will never have to have sentries if you have a WP. As soon as you see white swords you can just WP in.

wow i didn’t know there were WP’s in every single tower and supply camp aswell!

Even so as people have stated getting those WP’s is gonna be a kitten now as holding that supply line is going to be hard because even a 5 man group can flip a camp in 30seconds

Kolisch.4691:

Zumos.2056:

You can’t dodge out of ACs, you can’t run out of them when sieging, there is no skill at all using them.

So people ramming can’t switch/swap in another person? The person meant to eat all the arrows until the door goes down?

And there’s absolutely no skill at all getting out of the arrow circle. Yeah you get hit once, but it was LOL dmg.

Sure you can swap peopel but your ram is gonna sit there and take them all. It doesn’t tkae long atm for ACS to down rams now it takes nothing at all. IF there are any AC’s in a keep from now on it will just be treb or cata so in higher tiers rams are practiaclly useless now

Draygo.9473:

I remember reading once: “Wah wah wah defense is impossible all this game is about is attacking things you cant defend wah its impossible” so devs just buffed ac’s to make defending more possible and now its “wah wah wah game is too static, attacking is too hard…”

Really, make up your minds people.

Honestly where they were at before was fine even with the WXP skills they would be fine but an overall 80% damage buff is insane.

The main problem is that you can’t wipe all the AC’s before taking a keep as defenders can build em on corners and behind the gate. Put two sup Ac’s by supply hut and jsut watch every single ram melt in a few seconds. Now you just need to worry about sitting there and counter trebbing 24/7 and those people wasting your supply to reapir walls for the wxp from the said trebs that now can’t be blocked

FractalChaos.6539:

Aneu.1748:

With the ability to put 12 arrowcarts on a single door, adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing, increasing arrowcarts damage by 80%, with arrowcarts being so easily built with such small amount of supply required and increasing the time within which bleed stays on you from a cart… how do you think this is a positive addition to WvW?

I cant even … Im utterly dumbfounded at why someone at arenanet would think this is a good idea…

1- Use trebuchet to destroy inner siege.
2- Use said trebuchet to take down wall.

It’s going to be slower, more difficult, and require more effort and I bloody love it!!!

The only people who will really mind are the people who just wanted to continue the current flip-flip-flip-ARE-YOU-SERIOUS-DEFEND-?-flip-flip-flip trend. Fast xp, fast rewards, gimme gimme gimme.

And all they will do is build a counter treb, a bali or use their increased AC range. Its just going to slow things right down and cause massive stale mates. Were already starting to see it now in WvW and its only a few hours after patch

Raestloz.7134:

McNuggetBandit.8376:

Theftwind.8976:

I wonder…. build a catapult on an obscure portion of wall, hit the wall for 20-25 seconds, should be able to get several shots in, and then stop until after the 30 second update. Would the swords still show? It would be interesting to try that out as a lone person could break into a Garrison without anyone being the wiser, place a mesmer and boom!

Swrods show no matter what after the 30second point

If you stop attacking, they might go “Oh, maybe just monsters” and go. Rinse and repeat until someone’s day is crushed

If they do that they deserve to me hung, draw and quartered i’ve never seen anyone go “oh white swords at keep must be mosters”

The Spiral King.2483:

Aneu.1748:

Dawdler.8521:

… build catapults instead of rams just outside the range of the defending ACs.

I dont really get what the problem is. More focus on clever siege work is better.

Attack with AC > Enemy make counter AC > we make counter treb > enemy make counter treb!

YAY SIEGE WARS.

I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, because compared to zerg wars, siege wars sounds fun as kitten.

not when your one of the 75% of people who can’t man siege cause of siege cap so you sit there for 8 hours /dancing while they treb each other

Theftwind.8976:

I wonder…. build a catapult on an obscure portion of wall, hit the wall for 20-25 seconds, should be able to get several shots in, and then stop until after the 30 second update. Would the swords still show? It would be interesting to try that out as a lone person could break into a Garrison without anyone being the wiser, place a mesmer and boom!

Swrods show no matter what after the 30second point

Dawdler.8521:

… build catapults instead of rams just outside the range of the defending ACs.

I dont really get what the problem is. More focus on clever siege work is better.

Yes peopel can do that but now if there are defenders you have no way to ram the wall also try taking a well sieged lords room now and see how fast your face melts haha

Luiz Swordbreaker.6547:

Good. Anything that forces a server to split in smaller groups to actually check the map is a nice change. No more relying on a 60-men zerg (oh sorry, I think the correct term is “skill”) to cover the entire map .

Roaming groups, let’s drive them mad!

Thats still not how it will work all you will have now is your one mega zerg and people sitting at every tower or camp. As soon as the enmeny shows up that mega zerg will go there and man the AC’s and wipe you in 5seconds due to the massive damage they do now.

And now those mega zergs can get iside you tower without you even knowing if you don’t have scouts as they can melt a gate in 30seconds. While your roaming group will only be 50% trough the gate when the zerg rocks up and melts you with ACS

your obvisouly focusing on staff 1 and chaos storm for your conditions these are weak as they have a chance for vunrability aswell. All this means is your lucky to maintain 2 stacks of either bleed or burn so your just gonna be tickling them. If they removed that vunrability and fixed staff clones attaak bounce condition mesmers would become viable again

McNuggetBandit.8376:

Not really a smart zerg now will just drop 5 rams on your gate and not attack them selves, it will be 75% dead if not fully dead before you even know they are there unless you have scouts sitting there bored out of their mind 24/7

Well that more fault of the other team then the team attking if you miss a zerg coming in your not trying to hold any thing.[/quote]

The problem is that no you MUST have a person in every tower and 3 people in every keep and about 4 people in SM jsut so you can make sure you have every point covered for those 30seconds. These people get no points or rewards at all for doing this. Let me know when your next gonna go in and spend 8 hours standing there doing nothing for the day?

Not to mention a person in every camp aswell cause even a small 5 man team can wipe a camp in 30seconds so have fun trying to upgrade your towers on reset

Jski.6180:

VOLKON.1290:

This does bring up an interesting question…

If a thief runs up and hits a door and runs away, do swords go up 30 seconds later? Will the WP be contested 30 seconds later?

The better question your avoiding is what about oranges swords? Do they still show up when there are 25+ ppl attking if so this update is a major hit to zergs over all effectiveness. It makes them painfully easy to track and at the same time the non zergs of 5-24 groups able to truly ninja keeps and towers with a 30 sec “free” time if the other teams are not watching for it at all.

This update alone should destroy zergs caping. If you see a zerg coming you can WP ppl in because of a 30 sec “free” time BUT at the same time this zerg coming in will show up as oranges swords and EVERYONE can see it on the map and you have 30 sec to react to it.

Not really a smart zerg now will just drop 5 rams on your gate and not attack them selves, it will be 75% dead if not fully dead before you even know they are there unless you have scouts sitting there bored out of their mind 24/7

Gotta put credits out to Fay for getting me started on this path love your mantra builds.

Anyway this is a slight variation on Fays Pancea support mantra build more focused for WvW. It can run zerg support quite well but i find it excels in small team support even more.

With the up coming changes to to mesmer mantra cast times this should hopefully maek it even more powerful (will update later today after patch with new test results)

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/mesmer/?4.1|c.1k.h6.d.1k.h10|6.1k.h6|1k.71i.1k.71i.1k.71i.1k.71i.1k.71i.1k.71i|1k.68.1k.68.1k.68.1k.68.1k.68.1a.68|0.0.k4a.u2a8.k28|4x.1|32.3i.38.39.3q|e

Idea’s of the build

The idea of this build is to use mantra of Recovery to pop your runes of altruism every 10 seconds giving your group 3 stacks of might and vigor on every pop of this skill.

For aoe heals you need to be constanly popping Mantra of pain to get those AoE heals up, combine this with the regenration from phantasms and you can dish out a bunch of healing.

The third aspect of this build is the blind on glamour i find this incredibly usefull in small team fights and zerg v zerg to drop at the front and kill that initial hit that your group will take. This will buy you a seocond tops but in WvW battles that second can be life or death. With this you also get reflects from Feeback and traited focus.

Lastly with retalitation on cry of frustration and from light field leap finshers (of which you have two) you can hold your own rather well in 1v1 situations and laugh as that group trys to burst through your healing as they all die around you.

Gear

The armour I’ve gone with is clerics as I find by having a more direct damage output from the power I work better in small team fights while still being effective in zergs. on this i run 6x runes of altruism. also run full clerics acceroices.

Weapons

For weapons I run Sword/focus and Staff all clerics with sigil of life on sword and staff (for added healing) and for focus i run speed, however this is just personal prefernce and can be changed to what ever you want.

Skills

The two key skills that you need to run in this build are mantra of recovery and mantra of pain. As it also focuses on glamours you will want to full your other 2 utility slots with glamour skills, I tend to run Feedback and null field however portal and veil can be swapped in and out depending on the situation. For elites I mainly run Timewarp however mass invisibily can be swapped out on an on need basis

Traits

for this build i go with 0/0/20/30/20 taking
- Illusionary Defense
- Chaotic Dampening
- Glamour Mastery
- Restorative Mantra
-Wardens Feedback
- Confusing Cry
- Dazzling Glamours

Out of these the only 2 key traits that are needed for this build are Restorative Mantra and Dazzling glamours as these priovided two of your key mecanics. The rest are there to complint these key mecanics and i find they are the best choice for each slot. One thing to note if you find yourself lacking condition removal on yourself drop glamour mastery for Menders Purity, Do note however this will slow down your ability to apply blinds to targets.

Anyway thats my build so far guys unfortuanatly I do not have any gameplay videos as my PC doesn’t handle it very well however if you have any questions fire away!

as long as it cant be done inside citys go for it

Hazal.9560:

Even with the nerf, glamour will still be our best zerg build for both dmg and support. We can still blind an entire zerg walking into our fields, and we will still put our 4 stacks of confusion on them.

Zerg fights are not at all like small group or 1v1 combat, a whole zerg cant afford to just stop attacking with another pushing into them.

the thing is the overall damage you do now to that zerg with be very minimal, sure your gona tag em all and so it will still work there however its not going to provide much more support.

Atm you can drop that cofusion on the zerg and start ticking them for 500-1500 dmg (depending on how many fields they go through as your not gonna get much higher stacks on a full zerg) currently this damage on its own still shouldn’t kill someone. What is does those is forces players to think of their actions more which causes a slight slow down in their attacks (or they will die if they keep attacking) this allows the your zerg time to infict more damage killing the rest of that zerg that you have now weakend.

In my mind thats why glamours are strong zerg v zerg, the can hit the whole zerg and deal some okay damage to everyone (and mabye burst 1 or 2) but cause them to slow down as they have to think if they can take the damage from that confusion hit buying your zerg time to kill them

With the reduction in damage now you will just hit them for 250-750 ticks reall which is almost nothing considering it last only a few seconds because of foods or the condtion removal of a zerg. Now players will jusst fight through it and laugh as the regen that just got applied out does your confusion damage

Lifewaster.5912:

McNuggetBandit.8376:

It would atually befenit the zerg over a skeleton crew defending, sure you can counter then siege now with your catas or treb but so can they, and they have more numbers which means more supply to put up more siege. All a smart zerg would do is spread out their siege by the time you take down one treb and try to turn to take the next all the siege in your tower will be dead

A skeleton crew will not have swirls, a zerg will. At least now they have a chance to deal some dmg to the enemy siege.

Currently, a 30 man zerg with 300 supply can build 6 catapults , swirl them with 4 eles and ignore the 1-2 defense trebs/mortars inside the fort. A small team defending has zero chance and the fortified wall will be down in 3 minutes.

With the change, the zerg is forced to firstly build treb to take out the defense siege, even with spike building the defending trebs will get the first hits in and probably kill 2 of the 3 trebs and dmg the 3rd before they lose theirs.

This leaves the enemy zerg with a half a treb at a cost of 300 supply. This is now a far less potent attack compared to 6 catas. They have to send runners to resupply, meanwhile defenders can spike build more trebs using their stockpile and repeat the process untill the tower or keep runs out.

What used to be a 3 minute catapult roflstomp of a keep wall is now turned into a far longer battle of attrition, costing the attackers 600 + supply before they can fully suppress a small team of defenders in a sieged up fort.

The thing is catas arn’t the big issue with this all that zerg will do now is spread those catas out so you cna only hit one at a time, cool you killed one now they just do it with 5.

What the big problem most peopel are annoyed with is the effect on trebs. I mostly play EB and currently from SM you can treb ANZ,Durios,WC and klovan and if your smart OL, and those can treb back respectivly. What used to happen is people woulnd’t worry to much about SM trebs right away as an ele can stop 90% of those shots buying you more time. However now that you can’t block those you need to counter those trebs. Getting up a counter treb in a tower to hit SM is hard if they are already zeroed in as there arn’t many places you can drop it to build them giving them the upper hand already. What it will force people in EB into doing is fighting constantly over SM, all it will do is promote zergs to rush in there take the tower and hold it for dear life and put trebs up to hit every tower. by doing that you can take down walls on 3-4 towers at a time all you need to do is send a small group to each one and you will take atleast 1 of those towers each time the walls go down.

The other big issue that will cause is your now going to have all 3 servers 100man zergs in SM more often leading to constant skill lag across all the maps.

Talmor.9048:

So it seems that the best way to defend against counter Trebs is to spread out your trebs and catapults instead of clumping them together!

problem is as a defender in towers there are only a few places you can place trebs so they are usefully and so they can’t be hit from group attackers with AC’s or balis etc so they tend to get quite clumped

Coldviper.6794:

This will actually allow skeleton crews to defend their keep with their siege against zergs, otherwise zergs can just stand back treb EVERYTHING down, and even if the skeleton crew is defending with their seige it doesn’t matter because they just protect their seige with swirlies making the zerg have to put much of any effort at all into taking a keep.

It would atually befenit the zerg over a skeleton crew defending, sure you can counter then siege now with your catas or treb but so can they, and they have more numbers which means more supply to put up more siege. All a smart zerg would do is spread out their siege by the time you take down one treb and try to turn to take the next all the siege in your tower will be dead

Hickeroar.9734:

McNuggetBandit.8376:

This is gonna eff over EB the most i fell, all its going to do is force the fights into stonemist more leading to ever more huge skill lag, as who ever controls SM can treb most of the towers on the map, not to metion that OL is the only keep able to treb SM. If this is the case the way trebs work or their siege placement needs to be changed

OL needs to be able to treb SM. OL is the hardest to defend keep on the map, and any help they can get is better. If they balance up that map so OL/Anz/Mends aren’t horrible, then I can see getting rid of the ability to treb SM. Besides, the treb positions are easy to counter…

Not going to go into the points of defending towers as this is more a offensive thing, being able to counter is fine i know it can be done do it numerous times myself, However its the fact that now all we will be doing is sitting there and putting up counter trebn after counter treb so we don’t lose SM otherwise we will lose all our towers as we need to then try and counter treb SM get back there and then start counter trebing OL. It just puts even more priority onto an annoying aspect. If towers and keeps were further apart and there was no way to treb from inside your own tower i would be fine and dandy with this but as it is now its going to be a litten piece of kitten

This is gonna eff over EB the most i fell, all its going to do is force the fights into stonemist more leading to ever more huge skill lag, as who ever controls SM can treb most of the towers on the map, not to metion that OL is the only keep able to treb SM. If this is the case the way trebs work or their siege placement needs to be changed

greyblue.4962:

its not portal that most people are after its the timewarp

Timewarp is useless in WvW: it rotates who it buffs and it’s too small a buff for its cooldown.

it is still great in a zerg for adding that little bit of extra burst to take down towerslords etc help build the siege and rez. Even more effective in small groups

It may not be good in open field zerg v zerg but thats why we have multiple choices in elites to swap out for different situations

Richard Nixon.6573:

I would be perfectly happy with this, would finally shut up the people who QQ about mesmers being “mandatory” due to their utility.

I’m not sure Engineers will be to happy with getting even more of their skills nerfed though.

and then you would be kitten at everyone QQing over wanting engis and also QQing over wanting mesmers, its not portal that most people are after its the timewarp

Ive been at work did we (TC) lose any of our towers in EB over night, spent hours rebuilding those yesterday don’t wanna do it again when i get back fro mwork in a few hours ><

as said above scepter/focus is only used in glamour builds really as it has 1 small confsuon burst on it, and becasue glam mesmers do not do well getting close (no condition removal really and no stun breaks if going full glamour) so we avoid weapons like sword.

Scepter has never been good except for the “okayish” reason i stated. the 1 skill is slow as hell and does negible damage the number two block is good but sword still gives much better utility here with a evasion plus damage wraped into the 2 skill, plus a gap close (a buggy one at that though) and a powerfully 1 attack.

Reason staff is used in almost all pvp based builds is that it is a heavy defensive weapon that can still produced huge damage via clones for shatter making it in my mind our most balanced and best weapon at this stage (bar the useless vunrablilty on staff 1)

Daecollo.9578:

However that lies the problem. Stealth thieves cannot turn last refuse off, its a ‘5’ point minor trait that we are forced to recieve. When it procs at 25% and we have confusion, it usually just spikes and kills us.

I did not know that never had a theif, however as the poster above me stated thats a problem with how confusion and those sort of traits work together. In reality these sort of minor perks are what make confusion very powerly (things like procing on dodges) These are the things that need to be addressed to make confusion more balanced not damage reduction

Daecollo.9578

Yes, but traits that remove conditions don’t remove conditions until after the ability is finished.

The ability for example grants you stealth after you use it.

1 You use the ability. (Cloak and Dagger for example.)
2 You take confusion damage.
3 You go into stealth since you used it. (Because it successfully hit a target.)
4 Then the trait that removes conditions proc.

This is how just thieves are, I have no idea how other classes work except warrior, and it has traits similar with the warhorn that are also strange, it removes conditions before the ability happens, so you get less condition removal from warrior warhorn because of that.

I see what your saying however i just see that as a trade off for using a condition removal trait instead of a condition removal utility. You save yourself a spot in your utility bar that can be used for something else while still getting condition removal (i do the same with my mantra build).

Daecollo.9578:

You take damage before you get the condition removed. Also it only removes the latest condition. If you do another one after that it removes that. I usually see mesmers use sigils or poison weapon switching just because of that.

You really need to take in all factors when you think about why things are nerfed.

Confusion was just so much better of a condition then all the other ones.

To my knowldege confusion damage is applied after the skills finishes casting at the end of the cast chain, So unless you clenese via combo fields (whirl+light etc) you should be able to remove confusion before the damage pops.

The clensing other condtions before confusion is a seprate issue to the damage confusion can cause when burt in high stacks, There does need to be priority on what gets clensed as atm its hard to get what you want off. Some form of proritoy system that is disclosed to the player base would be nice (something like cripples>freeze>confusion>posion/burn>bleed etc)

The big problem with this nerf is that it does not jsut effect glamour mesmers it effects almost every single build our class can run so it turn its a blanket damage reduction to every mesmer build

Im thinking of toying with a reworked glamour build going to be testing tommrow, instead of turning my blinds into confusion i will jsut focus on applying those inital blinds and then usin reflects to lock down ranged. This wil not be a damage build but it will be highly supportive in small team situations where every hit counts

It would be cool but i honestly don’t think the engine could handle it, it would also require a massive rework of our class as it would make us incredbly powerfull and hard to kill, and we are already dam hard to kill atm with all our active defence and escapes. Cool idea though would be fun but i don’t think its viable with the current class build and the game engine

Numot.3965:

Here’s a video: “http://youtu.be/LE7T4vq8JoM”

For those thinking “oh you’re bad if you just spam skills through it” consider this; confusion triggers on all skills, including your condition removal, and skills that trigger on dodge roll.

Getting hit with a massive stack of confusion is pretty much a lose/lose for the victim. For example lets say you get hit with it a large stack, dodge to avoid some other large incoming damage, take 4k for dodging, then eat another 4k cause you try to clean it off. Sure you could not do anything, but that means potentially taking more damage from just face tanking a skill, and waiting it out isn’t exactly the best choice either if confusion came bundled with other conditions.

Heck, I remember back when shatter bomb was all the rage, one of the most frustrating things was getting bombed, then almost killing your self from trying to defend yourself.

It will only hit you on dodge if you have a skill that activates on dodge like guardians heal (which needs to be chaged i personally feel thats a bug) 2ndly if you clear the condition the confusion will not hit you as the confusion hits AFTER the skill casts so if you clense it its no longer ther to hit you. And lastly if you are being bomed for 4k damage by confusion any other burst should have killed you by now.

Emapudapus.1307:

Beside, ranger was still shooting me while invisible, no matter if i moved left or right, the arrows were still folowing me, like he still has me targeted. And pets should attack you again while you come out of stealth … not while you are stelthed. Fail mechanics are fail….

If they are still channeling a skill liek Longbow #2 it will still hit you other skills after that will not (unless its ground targeted aoe etc)

ExZee.8109:

Anet decides to put on ezmode, where a lot of other things also got the nerf bat besides confusion.

Aye the biggest things that needed fixing in WvW and sPvP were stealth spiking and stealth rezzing (includeds most form elixer s etc)

graverr.6473:

No.

Sorry but had to lol at this.How exactly is confussion the easiest to deal with with intelligent gameplay.i have a really nice scenario for you, ,actually more than one.

Warrior 2 cond removals equiped with 2 more from shout spec for a total of 5 conditions remove possibility.Activating 1 of them.Oh kitten stack of bleeding was removed.10K damage taken from confusion.Rinse and repeat, i still have 2 more skills to use for total of 3 cond. Hopefully i can remove it before poison, chill, immobilize, weakness, burning, vulnerability, crippled.Love my chancess.I also win the loterry everyday:).Meanwhile all other conditions are bringing me down fast or other players.Sit and pray or 7 to1 chance to kaboom.Both choices = DEAD

get confussion stacks.Place light field= 10 k damage taken from conf.Use whirl finisher on field to cleanse condition = other 10 k damage taken.
Easily countered with intelligent play.Yes right? You have 5 times more chances to sit afk trought 25 stacks of bleed for 20 seconds and still be able to get out alive.

Sad thing this is the main argument glamour mesmers have against the “nerf”(actuall returned to as intended state).As you can see argument does not stand unless you are a thief with heartserker on macro lvl of players or ofc “deceiving” mesmers wich is written in the class description btw

Im happy that a dev finally had a chance to blowhimself up in wvw an realize -Wtf is this kitten!I would have paid to be there tbh

This situation is slighty wrong for one if you got the stacks on you to get hit for 10k when you went to clenese any other classes burt would have killed you because you have atleast 15stacks on you to take that much damage.

and also if you have all those other conditions on you it means your either facing a condition engi or a group with a glam mesmers or engis so you need to change your stratgey. If its just that lone engi run from him a bit and wait for confusion to drop down the stakcs will all but be gone it 3-5seconds (thats if you dont want to risk the condition removal) get in stun drop a quick burst and move out of confusion again.

If its a group your going up against you should either 1 bne in a group yourself otherwise your prttey screwed in the first place (yes i know some builds can 3v1 etc but its not easy) If you have your own group get them to drop condition removals our move behind them and get them to defend you while those confusion stacks go down in a group confusion is much easier to deal with.

As i said above i will admit confusion needs some tweaking however its not as deadly as everyone states it has its conteres and they are some of the easier conters do deal with, i die more often to bleed burn or posion stacks cause that last alot longer and get stakced up from every other class out there almost

CrassBippy.4619:

McNuggetBandit.8376:

CrassBippy.4619:

if you had any knowledge of the pvp system confusion was pretty obviously out of whack with everything else. Even people abusing it had to see it coming

I know the system quite well (from a WvW aspect which is where this nerf is happening) and it wasn’t very far out of wack as to get those numbers on a mesmer (i cant talk for engis here as i don’t play one) you needed to completly murder every other aspect of your build to get it to that height. The reason people did this is it has passive AoE potential which memers have almost none of what so ever, and even then its damage was no further out of sync with other classes bursts in my mind its harder to die from confusion alone that pure damage.

thats not even what is overpowered, the fact that you think this nerf is tied to glamour specs is why you are wrong. There are builds that can abuse the kitten out of confusion along with high dmg from other sources and you cannot out cleanse by yourself, even with 2 full remove alls.

But keep on thinking that ANET and everyone else who isnt maining a mesmer/engineer dont know what they are doing, obviously

The only other build that can stack up confusion that will do any signifcant dmg due to +condition dmg that i know of is a engineer as without that extra damage it isn’t going to kill you, it will help for sure but not kill you. It does need some tweaking for sure in the terms of either a lower stack cap or at most a 25% reducition in damage (if you read my other posts you would have seen i stated this) but a 50% nerf is going way over board.

The reason most people are focusing on glamour builds is because this nerf will have the most effect on them, If ANET didn’t plan on people making a build to run full glamour with confusion why would they have designed all those traits to specificlly do exactly.

Ramiah.5648:

Confusion has always been OP. It probably still will be after the change. Players have a choice when thy are hit with confusion- do nothing, cleanse, or take 3k+ damage every skill usage. If the player does nothing, you take him down. If they cleanse, they just burned a cooldown and you can normally confuse again pretty quickly, if they keep fighting, they go down. Regardless of what they choose, advantage goes to the Mesmer and we can do this to entire groups of players.

The fact is to still get those 3k hits a memser needs to stack confusion quite high which either means the enemy has ran though every glamou field we dropped our we dropped our confusion burst on them with shatters and/or scepter. This burt is no different to a hundred blades warrior coming at you as you can still dodge all these confusion hits and even if you dont manage to dodge just wait it out, they will last for all of 5 seconds until all or most of the stacks have gone and in that time a glam mesmer won’t be able to kill you on his own.

This is what people don’t understand about confusion its not 1 stack equals 10k hit its a BURST just like your warrior burst, your theif burst your ele burst just like every single other damage build in the game it is a burst.

What glam mesmers real strength was, was its ability to tag and whole entire zerg due to each “tick” (people crossing the glamour field) had its own 5 man aoe cap and you were very unlikely to get more that 5 people at once pass through a glam field. This is where the nerf should of came if anything but definatly not to overall confusion damage as this will effect all memser builds

CrassBippy.4619:

if you had any knowledge of the pvp system confusion was pretty obviously out of whack with everything else. Even people abusing it had to see it coming

I know the system quite well (from a WvW aspect which is where this nerf is happening) and it wasn’t very far out of wack as to get those numbers on a mesmer (i cant talk for engis here as i don’t play one) you needed to completly murder every other aspect of your build to get it to that height. The reason people did this is it has passive AoE potential which memers have almost none of what so ever, and even then its damage was no further out of sync with other classes bursts in my mind its harder to die from confusion alone that pure damage.

Gisei.5749:

Perhaps instead of trying to make Confusion your primary source of damage, use it as just another source of damage. Even with a 50% reduction, it won’t be weak, but it also won’t completely insta-kill most of the player base.

And it isn’t “easily negated by attentive and intelligent players”. Not in a long shot. My Engi can push confusion to 5k per skill use, and I’m nearly a bunker(3k tough, 1k Healing power). My friend pushes Condition damage and has his Engi pushing 7500 damage per skill use. No amount of attentiveness will prevent that first attack. Most players won’t be able to stop their second attack. At that point, even attempting to remove the condition will kill you. And waiting nearly 10secs is not an option.

I personally think this will only kill off builds that rely Solely on confusion damage, which isn’t a bad thing, since no “condition build” should rely on a single condition.

I’m not saying 50% isn’t overkill, but I don’t think it is ridiculous either.

In another thread i had stated that in my opnion the confusion nerf should have been the form of a 25% damage reduction and a drop in the number of stacks that you can put on, This would still make the damage viable but not make massive stacks over kill.

And in making it the only source of damage if you want to run conditions on a mesmer its prttey much your only way to run a condition build aswell as an AoE build (due to the fact that we cant reliably stack other conditons) i agree that change was needed but this was more of a take a sleged hammer to my car and set it of fire sort of fix, instead of just reworking it so its not as punishing but still viable

number 1 i agree with however definatly not number 2.

Confusion already has a rediciously short duration and those burts are no different to other classes pure damage bursts in that they have long cooldowns and as it relies on you attacking that burst is much easier to avoid

Rising Dusk.2408:

• The boon hate trait will require a 30 point investment in Discipline, which very, very few Warriors can afford to do because it severely cuts into necessary investments for builds elsewhere.
• The discipline line for Warriors has an awful secondary stat booster, which reduces the net effectiveness of a Warrior investing into it (+3% burst damage with 30 point investment)
• The warrior still suffers from a lack of sustainability in small-scale matches, and melts under pressure if Endure Pain / Shield Stance are not up in zerg combat

Honestly, I don’t think it will make a big difference at all, and your worry is for naught.

I hope you are right however i still don’t agree that adding a passive effect that adds extra damage for something that is supposed to grant you support, Having boon hate in terms of nercos corruption and theives stripping is fine as it is an active counter to an active buff (just like condtional removal is an active counter to conditons)

Hope that made sense

Cheers missed that post haha, still wanna do some testing then kinda kills how i wanted to make my mantra build for small scale skirmishing but it will still work just not as strong

I will keep it there and test it once the patch releases, however i dont feel it will be as viable in WvW as Spvp still due to there being many more numbers which in turn bring much more condtion removal and faster fights so lower damage will hurt confusion a lot here.

It will still do a good job of tagging for badges so ill keep running it for that as i need em for siege but i plan to be switching to a new spec. still holding hope for confusion but it doesn’t look likley with tests i have done with my guild in Spvp even in 8v8 it is incedibly easy to deal with, upcale that to 50+ people with condition removal and its bonned

Daecollo.9578:

When you hit yourself for 5k when you use a skill its pretty self explanatory.

The thing is to hit that 5k you have to stack up 12+ stacks which is dam freaking hard when each stack lasts for a few seconds, once you get that burst you need to stop attacking, if that glamour mesmer manages to kill you during those 3 seconds without confusion them something sure is wrong with what you did then. The only bit that really needed fixing was it activating on dodge skills which i believe it should not do

Yea im tlaking about the trait,

So lets put this into a theory situation,

I have the trait selected and i go to charge mantra of pain,

On the end of charge the healing will proc which in turn will proc the runes?

(after runes internal CD) i then cast matra of pain charge wil lthis then pop a heal and another rune or not?

thanks for you help

The only thing i can see with thier reasoning is initialy confusion in WvW and PvE was buffed by 50% to compesate for it being horrible in PvE (WvW and PvE were still linked back then)

They are no taking that 50% buff away which was what made it a reliable source of damage in the first place. In all honesty what it really needed in WvW was either a lower stack cap (say 7-10) or a reduction in damage by 25%-30% tops.

If the nerf comes as a 50% reduction i would expect to see some reworking in the next patch after this one to make it more viable again (especially seems there are traits built into mesmer that 100% let you make confusion your 1 source of damage) otherwise all mesmers not just glamours will suffer.

So don’t throw your rabid gear away yet have faith and if not just roll a 100 blades warrior and laugh it up with the boon hate on guardians