Guild Wars 2

Genesis.5169:

voidvector.2780:

Just a bunch of spoiled brats whining, because for 3 years the only class they play have been atop the DPS leader board unchallenged.

Except all the ones that pvp on eles.

Look on the brightside, atleast we don’t have to do anything else as d/f eles. More reason to get magi over mender’s.

What, it isn’t enough that thief explodes in aoe / thief has a 50/50 on 1v1s, now we don’t want them to disengage too?

All i’m reading is “I couldn’t kill the thief who was running away. I should be able to. Nerf that kitten.”

Was expecting someone to ask for an icd on PI.

note: ele main. ocassional thief. and yes core thief is a whole different league of hard esp with HoT.

R O C.6574:

They are trying to lower survivability. So you see obsidian flesh lose some duration, wash the pain away got an increase cool down…

Stop thinking of it as HOT vs Core. They are looking at the profession as a whole. If you don’t have HOT, I don’t feel sorry for your lack of competitiveness. Buy the xpac cheapskate!

I feel sad if what you say about “looking at the profession as a whole” is really true for anet. That means eles are now only relegated to play bunker for the whole expac. Funny how they say when elite specs rolled out that they wanted build diversity. I guess 1 build is pretty diverse enough when some professions had none in the past.

Playing ele so far has been a rollercoaster of disappointment. It has been so hard making d/x variants work on competent opponents. I have had minimal success on d/x sage/menders running tempest or arcana but the burst on niche classes like rev, mesmer, and warriors make it a pain to play. Staff and S/x variants I’ve had more success with. Simply because I try to stay away from everyone even remotely glancing at me.

I don’t want to give up. I’ll still play ele come S4. But gkitten Anet is making it so hard to love pvp ele.

Maybe change Arcane attunement recharge to work with overload?

As staff backline, main problem you WILL get is not how much damage you can really put out but how much of it you can take from retal. I can run full zerk with scholar runes but once you start hitting 3-5 people with retaliation prepare to melt like butter. This fact made me drop running dps backline to a more hybrid of damage/support with full cele.

+1 to OP, i want to nap while winning pips.

Is it just me, or does anyone else find that fighting a condi warr to be really intense and exhilarating. I know what skills are gonna be his main burst and prepare for it, but if I am not careful, its certain death. After fighting thru bunkers regularly, fights with warriors feels like a godsend. Fights go either way, but mostly stalemates.

Playing tempest d/f. Tried scrapper, trooper, and radiance runes. All three worked well enough.

Agemnon.4608:

If you play like an emerald you should be in emerald. However, since rubies start off in emerald you should rank out of it naturally with time.

You actually make good sense. Would explain why i’m getting good fights in emerald. For those having a hard time pushing up the ladder, playing the season at a later time helps.

Gokil.2543:

Since this is a very hot topic, I figured I’d weigh in with my 2 cents.

D/D ele used to be strong because it was the king of controlling an engagement. Mainly soft cc and medium range were its greatest assets. Enough CC (chill/cripple/immob/stun/knockdown/knockback) to keep the enemy at bay and avoid being overwhelmed by him. Enough range to keep the pressure up against both heavy melee specs and specs that were built to kite.

It’s innately a low damage spec, but a medium-high pressure spec due to its ability to keep the damage rolling at all times, by virtue of its medium range and ability to control the engagement. (I know this sounds a little vague, but I had to edit out a lot of text to keep things concise)

Heart of thorns did 2 things mainly:
- Establish ranged damage as a cornerstone of combat, with specs like rev/druid/dh (and buffed necro scepter to some degree) being able to apply unprecedented ranged pressure
- Litter melee specs with hard immunities to counter balance the added risk of being a melee spec in this landscape

Both of these are very hard to reconcile with what D/D ele is and has always been. The point I’m trying to make is that trying to make D/D ele work in the game as it is now, would require completely turning around what the spec is, or completely turning around what the game is.

If you’re still here at this point, I’ll try to explain why this shift in meta hits D/D ele particularly hard.

- All the options D/D ele has to keep someone out of his melee range are obviously useless vs ranged pressure. The main tool of damage mitigation it employs is therefore rendered obsolete vs a very large portion of pressure. If you go through the list, pretty much every ability on the D/D set works to stop other melee-based builds from going full pve rotation on the ele. That’s its main tool of damage mitigation. Soft CC. I hope it’s starting to make a little sense.

- D/D ele being a low damage but high pressure spec falls apart when its contestants in melee range get spammed with immunities. The reason old D/D ele could get away with having low innate damage, is because it could keep very high uptime on its damage. Both by staying healthy due to high sustain, and by outranging its opponents slightly. Now think about a scrapper, which is one of the most prominent competitors for the bruiser role. It’s no longer possible to keep a decent uptime of damage since they can avoid so much of it by hard immunities (hammer 4, 3, sneak gyro, stability uptime). Rev is the most notable offender on this front, but daredevil is also very problematic for ele in particular. This ofcourse impacts every class, but D/D ele suffers especially, since it’s a low damage class by nature, meaning it can’t reach killing pressure anymore without proper uptime and control of engagement.

So in short, DD ele can’t really work in this game anymore without either changing everything the spec is about, or changing the game’s landscape.

I’d love to discuss this a little. I skimped over some stuff(DD sustain) to try to paint a clear picture, but in hindsight I’m not sure it worked out.

Thank you for this. This honestly reconciled my sad heart about D/D ele in this meta. Its still able to hold its own, but for average to excellent players its hard to push for that extra damage to net the kill.

Columbo.5924:

Aeolus.3615:

Smallest size asuran, get mixed on necro minons, most players wont be able to select u.

That is a serious issue actually and the reason why most sPvP players use the smallest size asuras for reasons like that. The result is an ugly gremlin warfare that is just pure eye cancer to watch.

Never had a problem spotting enemy asuras before, tho i have had a big problem fighting charr. I can’t see my self, often missing my animation cues.

OP, i think ele is a tough selection cos of attunement swap. Elementalists shout their attunements so much, I found that if you hate that sound its gonna be unbearable to play. For me, i found the asuras sassy nature a perfect match with myself.

zinkz.7045:

Josh XT.6053:

zinkz.7045:

Josh XT.6053:

Usually fights with cheesy stealth engineers end in draws because they spend the whole fight running away from me instead of damaging me.

Because builds with huge sustain, running a stat that was deemed so broken OP it got removed from PvP, aren’t cheesy at all…

Keep in mind that it wasn’t just eles that were using celestial and living forever lol. Remember Cele necros, engineers and medi guardians were also a thing in PvP that were pretty strong.

Why do I need to keep those in mind, they are irrelevant to the point (and incidentally none other than engy compared, and engy build got removed when they changed the trait lines), you whine about “cheesy stealth engineers” yet seem oblivious to the reality you are playing one of the cheesiest builds the game has ever seen cele ele, that carried bads in PvP for ages and was eventually kicked out of PvP because it was so broken OP you had a team with 4 cele eles (& 1 thief) winning a tourney.

If you want people to fight you rather than thinking I’m not fighting this AIDS and withdrawing, then I suggest you play something less faceroll, less dull to fight and less forgiving.

You don’t seem to realise it, but when roaming in WvW (unlesss you are PPT monkey and are bothered about camps, etc) there is only one “win” condition and that is the other guy dead or downed on the floor, it isn’t PvP where disengaging has a cost like losing a point, or the time wasted contributing nothing to the score and moving on to the next the point, so if people see some dull forgiving build like cele ele, condi perma stealth thief, PU perplexity mes, etc, many simply move off, and if you’ve made a build that has focused on fighting ability, sustain, etc, over quick kills, mobility / being able to chase down, then that is your problem, you are roaming in wvw, not playing 1v1 duelling.

Cele ele in pvp and wvw was different. Sure the wvw build was still strong, but it wasn’t godkitten awful as that in pvp. There was no need to hold points and no need to take a bath in the ele’s kill zone. Atleast it felt different.

Agreed on posts about mobility. Having successes in roaming D/D with variants of air/earth/tempest, earth/water/tempest, or x/arcane/tempest. Chasing down thieves and druids are a pain, and air overload is prone to being kited unless you start casting after a chill/cripple/immob. I’m now curious how the others running D/Wh counter kiting

Chase.2798:

Outsider.6051:

Chase.2798:

Hlord.5940:

Chase.2798:

Hlord.5940:

Booms.3952:

Hlord.5940:

Devitz.2136:

“and it ignores the fact that mes has trash damage in team fight also is countered by war , condi necro , and DH even DD could beat a condi mes on its own .”

“core necro ,power reaper seems better now "

You are a real clown, a guy who should be banned from the forums because of the amount of bs you’re spreading. Or is it just some kind of a social experiment? Just checking how people react to your insane babble?
Teams would run at least 3 mesmers with maybe 2 revs or 1rev/ele just to add sth else than condi dmg if they could and I’m sure of it. Simply because moa counters everything, mes survi is great and you cover all the points with portals.

You simply have no clue about what you’re writing.

And for gods sake learn to use all the punctation marks or simply disappear until you learn sth about this game.

“3 mes and 2 rev” This got me interested, do tell when and where a team run 3 mes? before the recent update? before the no stacking rule? ESL?

no he’s probably right. “if they could” he said btw.
but yeah if there was no class stackign rule I’d expect 3 mes 1 rev 1 ele/druid tbh. Maybe -1 mes for another ele/druid.

Well they could before the no stacking rule but i’ve never seen any team taking mesmer, let alone staking 2 mesmer in their team, before the staking rule come in mesmer got alacrity nerf by 50% and their so call chrono bunker got guts, so I wonder when does these 3 mes, 1 rev and 1 ele/druid come in

You’ve never seen a team with a mesmer?every game in both seasons has had at least 1 mesmer and usually 2, and in season 1 most had 4 in each game 2 for each team

If possible could you give me a link to them? Especially the last two season

Just go to youtube and watch a few matchups…especially season1

I don’t follow the pro pvp scene that firmly, all the animations give me headaches. I remember one site posting stats across the board on compositions, class usage, etc. etc.

Not sure if this will be relevant, EU league stats from 5 months ago:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/EU-Pro-League-Meta/first

I believe that is only from the first match so it was before the meta really formed around bunker mesmer

Yeah, I was looking for the post/site that went out when people got wind of bunker mes and viper rev.

Chase.2798:

Hlord.5940:

Chase.2798:

Hlord.5940:

Booms.3952:

Hlord.5940:

Devitz.2136:

“and it ignores the fact that mes has trash damage in team fight also is countered by war , condi necro , and DH even DD could beat a condi mes on its own .”

“core necro ,power reaper seems better now "

You are a real clown, a guy who should be banned from the forums because of the amount of bs you’re spreading. Or is it just some kind of a social experiment? Just checking how people react to your insane babble?
Teams would run at least 3 mesmers with maybe 2 revs or 1rev/ele just to add sth else than condi dmg if they could and I’m sure of it. Simply because moa counters everything, mes survi is great and you cover all the points with portals.

You simply have no clue about what you’re writing.

And for gods sake learn to use all the punctation marks or simply disappear until you learn sth about this game.

“3 mes and 2 rev” This got me interested, do tell when and where a team run 3 mes? before the recent update? before the no stacking rule? ESL?

no he’s probably right. “if they could” he said btw.
but yeah if there was no class stackign rule I’d expect 3 mes 1 rev 1 ele/druid tbh. Maybe -1 mes for another ele/druid.

Well they could before the no stacking rule but i’ve never seen any team taking mesmer, let alone staking 2 mesmer in their team, before the staking rule come in mesmer got alacrity nerf by 50% and their so call chrono bunker got guts, so I wonder when does these 3 mes, 1 rev and 1 ele/druid come in

You’ve never seen a team with a mesmer?every game in both seasons has had at least 1 mesmer and usually 2, and in season 1 most had 4 in each game 2 for each team

If possible could you give me a link to them? Especially the last two season

Just go to youtube and watch a few matchups…especially season1

I don’t follow the pro pvp scene that firmly, all the animations give me headaches. I remember one site posting stats across the board on compositions, class usage, etc. etc.

Not sure if this will be relevant, EU league stats from 5 months ago:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/EU-Pro-League-Meta/first

joshmossas.6542:

ZERKER SHATTER MES \o/

AKA the best mes

That is all I have to say

God i loved that build. Had to play mes for 6 months straight until I hated it to be able to understand how to counter it. Can’t say the same for other builds.

Looking back at things now, I seemed to play a lot more builds pre-HoT. Would like to see condi signet ele back.

FINALLY someone with the same taste. I can’t stress how much i’ve wanted to roleplay shooting stuff from my fists. I doubt they will implement this soon (or ever), but as an asura, closest I can get is using godskull daggers. Coupled with the ultra tiny size of daggers on asura, the godskull kris would look invisible.

Supreme.3164:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Supreme.3164:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

hmm complain how u cant kill ele, what do you think of chrono bunker? you know those who use bunker amulet like soldier and sentinel?

GW2 rule n1: When the opponents wins…it’s never due to skill it’s always due to some “OP” aspect of his class.

A skilled ele can defeat a condi reaper without diamond skin, nerfing the trait would do little because necros will be here again asking for some other nerfs because they’re too skilled to lose to anything that’s not OP/broken

At 200% knowing the necro community, the day after ds get nerfed..they would be here asking to nerf the “OP” sustain, then they will come for the dmg…finally they’ll come because they don’t like the name “elementalist”

Hardly. Without Diamond Skin, eles have always been manageable by Necros. Never easy (aside from when Eles were the weakest class), but managable (or did you forget that post June 23, Cele Signet Necro was the only build that had a realistic chance of winning vs Celementalist, and even that was only about 50/50).

Right now, condi Necro vs Ele is decided by a simple yes/no check: Is the ele running Diamond Skin? If yes, then the Ele wins. If no, then there’s an actual fight to be had.

What most Necros (and other professions, including some Eles) are calling on for Diamond Skin isn’t a nerf, but a total rework to not make it binary in nature. Wouldn’t it be nice to pick it to ward off Soldier builds as well? This would come at the cost of being totally immune to condition builds, sure, but it would still be a strong condition defense trait, ideally.

Diamond Skin should be strong, but a single trait should never decide the fight before it’s begun.

Really diamond skin allows eles to use powerful aura and become support auramancer for the meta, should diamond cease to be useful, eles will simply use cleansing water and people would revert back to tanky roamer but this time using tempest.

In the end , the situation won’t change much for necros, when you rely on a single source of damage and typical youtube rotation (staff-staff-chill to the bone- spin to win)..you should expect to be hard-countered soon or later

Time would be better spent and changing builds rather than follow “metabattle” and youtube/twitch stream followed by copy/paste build/rotation

+1. Without DS, I would simply run earth line with stone heart.

the comments in this section. I say GG regardless if i won, lost, facerolled, or get decimated by the enemy. Why do people have to overanalyze everything. Take the compliment and be happy.

Waiting for that 1v1 challenge with warbignime. You stream it? <3

Anyway, playing leagues makes me feel like i’m trying to play with the system more than I should. I soloQ on times where I feel like there’s eneough soloers to play with the premades. I watch how many times i’ve lost so I don’t get stressed too much. I ride the losers train til it takes a roundabout. No I don’t tank my MMR.

geekilo.8512:

Please redesign the maps
Because you have to hold the captured point, that’s how all these bunker builds come to live. The current meta is extremely unhealthy for the game. As many players predict if you nerf one bunker build, another bunker build will come up and take its place, then it becomes a cycle, the problem isn’t bunkering. The problem is in the map design.
AND i’m extremely fed up with the current bunker meta.

+1 need more map options.

There is actually a sure way to climb up the ladder. Tank your MMR. Im guessing half of the season you lose all your matches. You should end up in legendary division by then. Who needs a team.

On my last game last night in my quest for pips, I 1v1’d a tempest on point. I dozed off for like 10s and we were no closer to killing each other. Good times.

Nice vid. Would you say running cantrips to cover water overload pulls out better team cleanse than 2 shouts with soldier runes?

On another note, watching pvp vids make me feel sad now. This meta has been nothing but a bunker fest.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

If this is the reason why Ruby people are Ruby then I gotta question their skill set.

Had a few matches with ruby players. Feels like Ruby is the new dragon rank.

Harvey.7820:

Ban hammer incoming

As a pvp player in different games (dota 2, sc 2, WoW in Wotlk, Destiny, BF3, etc.)
I find it extremely hard to tank. Even when you go into a game with the mindset that you just in it for fun or you go in it to lose (tanking mmr), I always end up being competitive and playing for keeps. Old habits die hard.

By all means ban players who tank. I’m not liable for this offense, i hope this culture ends. I can live with the current meta of power creeps and bunker teams but this mindset is downright stupid. I see desperate players playing for rewards rather than playing to improve their skills.

Almost tempted to tank MMR. Played 7 games, won 4, lost the other 3. I’m back to square one. The system tries too hard to get you to stay in 50% range. Before i lost my streak, i had a match against a real tough premade. We won, but I already guessed that the next match was gonna be the combo breaker. Had the same match against the same premade, only this time we had 3 confused players.

Why not make the matches progress? If I’m up to 60% win rate, make me play with people that have the same win rate as me. Would make for a more balanced match. That way when you tank MMR, you get matched with low MMR players, but you also get low MMR teammates. Maybe pair it with something else like division. You get matched with people of the same win rate and same skill level.

Alekt.5803:

GoZero.9708:

They also forgot to change Lava Font, Burning Retreat, Meteor Shower, Water Blast, Ice Spike, Geyser, Frozen Ground, Healing Rain, Arc Lightning, Lightning Surge, Static Field, Stoning, Eruption, Unsteady Ground, Shockwave, Dragon’s Tooth, Phoenix, Shatterstone, Water Trident, Arc Lightning, Rock Barrier, Dust Devil, Heat Sync, Wildfire, Tidal Surge, Water Globe, Cyclone, Sand Squall, Dust Storm, Dragon’s Claw, Drake’s Breath, Ring of Fire, Vapor Blade, Cone of Cold, Cleansing Wave, Lightning Whip, Ride the Lightning, Ring of Earth, Churning Earth, Glyph of Storms, Mist Form, Armor of Earth, Tornado, Grasping Earth, and every summoned weapon skill.

You forgot Ether Renewal… The noise, I can’t stand it!

Don’t forget the cantrips. Armor of earth is too noisy.

At this rate we gonna end up looking like warriors…

+1. Magnetic aura on an asura is pretty hard to see, even if you zoom in. I admit they look more like auras emanating off the body now instead of bubbles like before but you can’t see what aura a tempest has on esp on a teamfight. Anet wants us to look at the buff bar more instead of the fight onscreen?

In unranked q? Is it possible to have a guildie q so he can end up on another team?

ReaperJr.5967:

I think its really difficult to create a build that works well with dagger offhand in the current meta. Too many counters atm. Ive theorycrafted many builds but all of them end up in the gutter lol.

But ay, you will need all the cleanse you can get since you’re not going earth. So all cantrips, and your choice of heal and elite depending on your playstyle. Water/arcana/tempest or fire/water/tempest (would recommend slotting out cleansing fire for an aura shout if so) for more damage and smoother rotations but less defense, heal and might stacking. I think hoelbrak runes are mandatory if you intend to stack might otherwise you can either go soldiers if you’re running shouts or travellers if you aren’t. Leeching/energy sigils always :p

Hope this helps.

Edit: If you’re not running focus dont go aurashare, you cant afford it. So the usual 1 1 1 in water.

How would you say dagger offhand is dropped out? I’ve played the old cele meta and it was harder to survive which is pretty interesting. Old cele never had problems with conditions, and with tempest we have 40% damage reduction in protection, heals from auras and with it more access to regen. I played W/Ar/T with 3 cantrips, switching from signet heal to shout heal. Played cele, and played marauder, both durability runes with energy/battle sigil and doom/leeching. I’m interested to find out. I love offhand dagger and i’ve been looking for new ways to make it work for me again. I just seem to melt so fast even if i save my dodges instead of dodge rolling earth for extra might.

TL;DR
I’m confused, why does the old cele fare poorly in this new meta?

Tried the build for a some matches (15? not sure) and while its a small test size, i found out some stuff:
1.) I only ever used conjures in PvE, and i’ll be kitten ed they feel clunky to use. The cast time makes it feel slow, and i sometimes get kitten having earth shield on me. I can’t drop the shield fast enough to access weapon skills.

2.) I can drop a shout in my utilities for something else. I take feel the burn mostly for on demand protection, but with no elemental shielding it doesn’t matter for me anymore. That said, I don’t get much on demand protection anymore I might considering using arcana instead of water, or earth again.

3.) How does earth shield 4 work? I don’t see the pull happening. I really need to use other utilities more.

4.) This build worked wonders for frontline wvw combat. Pop earth shield, run in the mess of a fight, tank with the shield while using overloads for pressure. I used to run the shield on capping garrisons and keep where the zergs grow huge. earth 2 and 5 helps with survivability.

BlackBeard.2873:

Jekkt.6045:

Neko.9021:

Tempest is fine. It’s used on the top teams of PvP and Raids. Can’t speak for WvW/GvG though, I suppose. But for the things that matter, it’s great.

just because people use it doesn’t mean that it’s fine or well designed… it just means that it’s not completely useless.

So true. Tempest doesn’t open up many new play-styles, it only offers aura healing + overloads for damage/extra auras.

Worst of all, it is SO NOT FUN to play. Sitting there lightning whipping 30% of the time, overloading 40% of the time, and occasionally using other skills. I can’t make clutch pvp plays by identifying an important target. You just rotate through your sustain and pump out those extra heals/auras/boons to your team in the process. Still tanky sustain, but with less mobility and damage for more support.

Tempest is usable, but not fun. It is not varied in the builds it opens up. It is not exciting. Still pigeon-holed with build choices.

I play it for now because its different, but it has me losing my desire to play ele or the game.

How true this statement is. I’ve been reading the wiki lately and read the description on tempest and it says tempest is for team support and constant pressure. I have to say it does live up to the description, tempest does deal constant damage even if it is lightning whipping most of the time. What I do find is that tempest pumps out a lot of support in teamfights. Sharing shock and magnetic aura is problematic for the enemy team, and i’ve found myself targetting the tempest in groups when i’m playing other classes. Ele could have been made more interesting with a burst spec. Tempest feels a lot like D/D 2.0. We just shifted boon generation from cantrips and attunement swaps to getting them from auras.

Edit:
If i’d change anything on the tempest, it’d be overloads. I’m no pro, just my 2 cents:

Fire:
– Larger aoe. Even with swiftness, a simple juke makes us miss. I only ever find use for it on might stacking during teamfights. Maybe more projectiles to shoot out? idk

Air:
- Am i the only one that feels OA is just air auto with vulnerability? Maybe give us more hits per second. Tooltip says interval is at .25s, but wiki says its actually .5s.

Water
- I find water heals lacking. Autoattacks can outdamage the pulse heal, and its pretty hard to use it of its locked out for 4s. Someone in this forum said maybe its better for OW to be instant. Maybe he’s right.

Earth
- I’m not sure about earth too. I rarely ever use it, as it locks out key focus skills. I feel like OE is what churning earth should have been, a mobile channeled attack that hits hard if you can pull it off. Maybe put churning earth’s damage on channel completion and finally rework churning earth.

+1!

Maybe throw in more game modes Anet? Deathmath, Capture the Flag, Offense-defense maps, etc. PVP game modes are abundant in other games.

Nice vid! Maybe i’ll try this out later. Did you try other weapon set/conjure combos?

Ryld.1340:

Outsider.6051:

Laraley.7695:

Outsider.6051:

What builds run condi that aren’t able to dish out 1.7k damage? (10% of spvp ele health with cele and no vit on runes i believe).

Been asking around on fights i’ve been in where they constantly complain about it. And they said they aren’t running dire, so what is it? Only condi build i played is trapper ranger and that never had any problem getting 10% off an ele.

Hm, I wonder if it has anything to do with the ele having 40% (33% at worst) dmg reduction 100% uptime.

Screw this then, lets remove all earth line.

The 7% increase is Tempest, not Earth.

Was pointing to elemental shielding, where its quite easy to have perma regen and vigor and near permanent prot. Besides, thread was pointing to DS as a hard counter to condi builds, found also in this line with elemental shielding.

Edit: Now my question was genuine, what builds are having difficulty with hitting the 90% threshold, as i’ve only ever played condi ranger (sometimes condi engi but i suck).
I’ve read before in these forums suggestions on a more active play type of diamond skin, such as resist on earth attune or a lower threshold but change immune to – condi duration. Before, water was the strong line for condi clears, now that we have to drop one line to get tempest in the mix. I’m all for changes to reward skilled play.

Laraley.7695:

Outsider.6051:

What builds run condi that aren’t able to dish out 1.7k damage? (10% of spvp ele health with cele and no vit on runes i believe).

Been asking around on fights i’ve been in where they constantly complain about it. And they said they aren’t running dire, so what is it? Only condi build i played is trapper ranger and that never had any problem getting 10% off an ele.

Hm, I wonder if it has anything to do with the ele having 40% (33% at worst) dmg reduction 100% uptime.

Screw this then, lets remove all earth line.

Jekkt.6045:

witcher.3197:

Jekkt.6045:

this build is complete garbage… not only do you die easily to focus in a teamfight because you don’t have an actual stunbreak or teleport but you also lack ranged support to go offnode when you need it but still have to support allies.

tripple utility shout is a terrible idea and i would put scepter before staff and dagger at last. diamond skin is way too situational to be first pick and is more or less only useful in a 1v1 against a condi build, which will end in a tie because xou don’t have the damage to kill it either nor should you be in a 1v1 as a supporter at all.

this just shows the lack of knowledge of the metabattle admins to put this in te meta section…

thanks, by putting it there karl will now think tempest is fine and doesn’t need many fixes/qol and traitoverhauls

This is by far the most common ele/tempest build in both EUand NA high tier.

Some people are going to win thousands of dollars with this build while you’re posting here about how you can’t comprehend why it’s good, which (by your logic) obviously means that everyone else is wrong.

How does that make you feel?

i never said anything about not comprehending “why it’s good”, because it’s not. running support on a build that can get yourself killed easily against teams that know how to focus is a terrible idea. most of the eles that played in the qualifiers are the same bandwagon d/d eles that have never touched a staff or a scepter in their lives before, just with a new build that requires them to press shouts instead of cantrips :^) i don’t need thousands of dollars to know which eles suck and which builds are bad. bring 1 smart marauder herald and your “most common eu and na” build bites to the dust; and there goes your support.

This. Instead of boons on attunement swaps, we now get them from auras. 4 secs window to interrupt the overload not enough for people?

What builds run condi that aren’t able to dish out 1.7k damage? (10% of spvp ele health with cele and no vit on runes i believe).

Been asking around on fights i’ve been in where they constantly complain about it. And they said they aren’t running dire, so what is it? Only condi build i played is trapper ranger and that never had any problem getting 10% off an ele.

BlackBeard.2873:

No stunbreaks for 5s every time they swap elements…

Very few ways to survive focus fire after shocking aura and obsidian flesh…

Try to keep track of the utilities and spike after forcing those. One of the best times to spike them is while overloading: they will either die or be forced to cancel the overload to swap to earth. Also, they are extremely weak after swapping out of earth.

Making it rather risky for eles to overload earth, as they won’t have obsidian flesh ready when they need it.

I’m genuinely curious, which condi builds have a hard time dealing the 10% damage? Maybe a sample build will also be nice.

Morwath.9817:

Shap.7562:

Morwath.9817:

I am so confused… why would someone make thread about Hot Join.

Because its still apart of the game I paid for..

If you want to play “fair” matches que for Ranked/Unranked. HJ is for casual trolling.

Then he grows into a better player, but just as the dream rushes in, he gets hit by the weird matchmaking or gets pitted up against premades. The pains of life <\3

Aside from the obvious where hotjoin is always eschewed, curious why didn’t they just implement a team lockout similar to op’s point.

Senario.2038:

MadRabbit.3179:

Tempest was represented by every team in the monthly finals the other day, so that is something, but still basically as a support/bunker role.

So given that, I don’t think it’s in too bad of a state. When I played with it, it certainly provided more support and survivability than the old bunker spec.

However, it’s a really bad time right now to be a bunker, particularly if you are going solo without a team you can count on to support you. There is just so much burst damage being thrown around right now that you get wrecked.

Personally, I still think the spec is underwhelming and flawed in comparison to other elite specs. Reaper, scrapper, dragonhunter, for example, opened up a lot of new builds. I think there is like 9 different reaper builds up for draft and test on metabattle. Like the addition of Reaper actually made bunker necro a thing. I saw someone play the build in the finals.

We, on the other hand, have like 4 which are all variations of the same celestial support/bunker theme and all of those focus on auras being their main mechanic and not overloads. Several of the guides I have read even actively discouraging overloading except at specific times, because of how bad it can kitten you over for very little gain.

To be hones, being an aura bot is straight up boring to me. And kind of sad. And I’m pretty much done with elementalist for the first time since the game launched. I’ve posted a lot of constructive feedback on how to make the spec better, but the developers have been completely silent for weeks now.

So I am going to my necro to play reaper because A it’s fun and B the developers apparently give a kitten about it.

It could be worse though. We could be warriors. I did a miss a few games in the finals yesterday, but the one’s I did watch, nobody rolled a warrior.

It is disappointing that the only real time Tempests are useful are during 5v5 PvP situations and not really much else. I do recognize that aura bot is actually ok now with tempest but tempest as a concept really should’ve just been called “auramancer” there isn’t anything tempest like about it.

There is something tempest-like about my ele shouting all the time. Between the attunment swaps and the shout skills, I’m a whirlwind of noise. If i don’t break the enemy’s face, i’ll sure break their ears. If you throw the warhorn in, no one would wanna stay close to you.

Arutha.9874:

blubberblasen.3901:

do not use tempest LoL
play classic dd ele
armor of earth -> walk in -> teleport out -> kill him -> gg

Hey just to point out, Tempest has an easier way to do this without needing to use two utilities with a 75 and 40 second cooldowns.
Engage in earth with earth overload which has 3 stacks of stability and swiftness, proc all the traps then leave out of them, and get reflect aura afterwards which likely cleanses his burn stack and heals you back to full.

Never thought of starting fights in earth. Gotten so used to opening fights in air or fire. Maybe the key to playing tempest is forget how to play ele?

I’m still hoping they change the warhorn skills (fire 5, water globe, dust storm) to work like warrior’s flames of war on torch. When the speculating began on the datamined horn, i thought they were going this way. I want to be a walking firestorm Anet.

Or maybe just have them look at air 5. Its so slow and awkward to use, i’m pretty sure i can manage a /laugh emote before casually moving out of its way.

i find the focus to be a must in shutting down longbow damage. focus (2 projectile counters) + aftershock makes sure he never hits you with that bow again. I am finding it hard to survive getting 1v2 with a DH on point tho. It might be a L2P issue but i don’t feel bad. I shouldn’t even win 1v2s anyway.

One thing i noticed tho and i’m not sure if its with the ele being squishy overall but even with high prot uptime, scrapper runes and celestial amulet, the traps can get me to 25%. Maybe an issue on me eating the traps, but that damage is amazing.

I have this feeling that warhorn skills would be mobile aoes like necro on death shroud, something like the Glyph of storms on Earth but moves with you. I think OP’s idea of having a resource that functions like adrenaline or revenant’s energy upkeep may be the way to go, so we don’t end up having 4 generic skills on warhorn for each attunement that produces an aoe/field around us. That might just end up like a less mobile D/D.

Anet introduced the idea of directional aoe, much like the dragonhunter’s projectile destroying arrow and revenant’s mobile front reflect, maybe an elementalist version?

Laraley.7695:

Outsider.6051:

I’d go against people here saying elemental surge is bad. It may not be the best tho. For your build to focus on arcane and ES, you’re looking for high burning stacks in a short amount of time to insta down the opponent. I’d change a few things tho. You might want to change elemental contingency with final shielding, i don’t think you want to be taking a lot of hits, that way you can drop it in your skill bar and swap it with lightning flash. Start in fire, hit all arcane skills and stack up the burning then stun with air focus. Might be a one-trick pony build. Also prob better mileage with dagger mh. You can use arcane power, then fire 3 + teleport on their face than use all arcane skills and cast fire 2 for maximum burns.

If you want burning stacks, then you probably don’t want to play zerker, do you? I don’t understand mixing these two when there is already such build – cele ele. You’re better of going full zerker than throwing in random rabid trinkets.

Also, I would go against people saying to take Final shielding. It’s just so bad, come on. It’s on freaking 75 sec cd, procs at 25% hp and you might as well lose on the stunbreak if you dont take Arcane Shield on your utility bar.

Point taken. I was merely commenting on OP’s choice of putting elemental surge into his build, that there is a way to make it work despite people saying it is bad. Well it IS compared to its GM competitors but hey, there is a way to make it work to your advantage.

On final shielding, I thought to remove it from the utility bar because LF opens up combos still in respect to using elemental surge. I rarely use final shielding too, i like the boons you get from elemental contingency. Beyond its horrible CD, there are a lot of chances to be one shotted before you get the 25% hp mark.

I’d go against people here saying elemental surge is bad. It may not be the best tho. For your build to focus on arcane and ES, you’re looking for high burning stacks in a short amount of time to insta down the opponent. I’d change a few things tho. You might want to change elemental contingency with final shielding, i don’t think you want to be taking a lot of hits, that way you can drop it in your skill bar and swap it with lightning flash. Start in fire, hit all arcane skills and stack up the burning then stun with air focus. Might be a one-trick pony build. Also prob better mileage with dagger mh. You can use arcane power, then fire 3 + teleport on their face than use all arcane skills and cast fire 2 for maximum burns.

i think whats crazy is how fire line synergies the high might stacks with burning. Playing cele before we got sustained damage overall from power and condi, but nothing too amazing. Now might stacking helps us stack 2k+ burning ticks on a target making it feel like drakes breath does more damage than burning speed for me.

Maybe when they change how burning damage works, the fire line will normalize as you said.

Treeoflife.4031:

Outsider.6051:

Treeoflife.4031:

Celestial Armor. Pack Runes. Mix of Zerk, Cav, And Valk Trinkets. Zerk Daggers. Is working well for me.

What i really want to know is if anyone had tried Radiance or Traveler Runes with Celestial Gear.

Really wanted to try radiance, light aura with elemental contingency seems to be a great way to stack up retaliation.

Anyone else feeling the loss of boon duration? I never had a problem before with fury on attunement swap, but this time the 2s of fury doesn’t seem to last long enough, just barely for 1 skill after you swap.

Agreed about Fury! Is why im using Zephyr’s boon and Pack Runes. I am personally more interested in the movement speed + Aura Duration of Radiance Runes tho. I Do like Air line but i really want to try a Fire/Earth/Water Set Up. But without some access to movement speed it really just doesnt cut it in WvW setting. Need Dat Speed!

I’ve gotten so used to the might duration runes, i’m feeling uncomfortable dropping them in any build. I tried other boon duration runes, and so far water runes work for me in getting more uses out of the fury on swap, even if it is barely a second longer. Does might stacking in pack runes work well? The passive 10% boon duration on arcana feels so small compared to what we had before.