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Posted by: PowerBottom.5796
Although my primary suggestion is that you balance mesmer instead of removing mercenaries I am going to present an alternative idea since it is unlikely the team is going to revert their decision.
Replace the vitality on mercenary with precision to make it less defensive overall.
So thats a nerf to mesmer (doesn’t necessarily need a nerf like that), a bigger nerf to necro (doesn’t need a nerf at all) and a buff to warrior, which is very likely the strongest class using mercs atm.
If you think warrior is stronger than mesmer atm you are delusional.
In a 1v1 there’s not even a contest, war beats it easily. War wins all 1v1’s basically. In a teamcomp, Mesmer still offers a lot though, even though he isn’t dominating every single 1v1 anymore.
Still, you don’t need to remove mercs to balance mesmer, just add an ICD on illusionary reversion of about 8s. Also, buff physical DMG of GS for example.
mhmm… I actually think that is by far the better option than simply removing amu’s and creating new imbalanced ones without thinking about it every season.
Although my primary suggestion is that you balance mesmer instead of removing mercenaries I am going to present an alternative idea since it is unlikely the team is going to revert their decision.
Replace the vitality on mercenary with precision to make it less defensive overall.
So thats a nerf to mesmer (doesn’t necessarily need a nerf like that), a bigger nerf to necro (doesn’t need a nerf at all) and a buff to warrior, which is very likely the strongest class using mercs atm.
Why?
Only mesmers and warriors use it – warrior doesn’t seem too strong with it at all and with reference to mesmer it’s not the amulet which is the root of the problem.
Necro is greatly dependant on it, no idea why some use wanderers, it’s so much worse. But Necro doesn’t need a nerf anyways.
I see no reason whatsoever to remove mercs amu.
Okay, here is my view on why the removal of Merc’s amu is a mistake.I’ll try to be objective and give reasons:
1) Removing an amulet reduces build diversity – this one is pretty simple.
2) What builds are currently using Merc’s amu? Condi-mesmer, necro and condi-war, but are they OP?
- Condi-Mesmer:* I’m not too sure about if this build is actually OP or not since the Moa-nerf. Also, there’s the rise of condi-war, which absolutely shred them. Now there are 4 builds that can deal with condi-mesmer pretty well (win, or hold a point) in the current meta: necro (with either 4 shouts+soldiers or consume conditions, it’s IMHO a even, skill-based MU, slightly Mesmer favoured maybe), Ele can easily hold the point if he plays well, druid can actually even win and condi-war shreds the mesmer. This build would disappear with the removal of mercs amu.
- Necro:* In a pretty decent place now, but removing Mercs would hurt it greatly. I have no clue why some ppl actually choose to run wanderers, it’s so much worse than merc’s.
- Condi-war:* It’s too early to say if it’s OP, but it likely is. But the kicker is, that out of the 3 builds that use mercs amu, war has by far the easiest time going for another amulet.
3) There might be some builds that could use mercs amu in the future, based on how the patches look like, especially D/D-Ele and condi-thief, which greatly rely on the mercs amu, because they simply need the stats provided by it.
I think p/p core engie which is running rampant nowadays too uses mercenary with grenades, I might be wrong though.
I also remember condi rev using mercenary iirc.
True – they might have a bit of an easier time switching to another amu, but since the builds aren’t OP whatsoever, why remove the amu that works best for them?
Okay, here is my view on why the removal of Merc’s amu is a mistake.I’ll try to be objective and give reasons:
1) Removing an amulet reduces build diversity – this one is pretty simple.
2) What builds are currently using Merc’s amu? Condi-mesmer, necro and condi-war, but are they OP?
- Condi-Mesmer: I’m not too sure about if this build is actually OP or not since the Moa-nerf. Also, there’s the rise of condi-war, which absolutely shred them. Now there are 4 builds that can deal with condi-mesmer pretty well (win, or hold a point) in the current meta: necro (with either 4 shouts+soldiers or consume conditions, it’s IMHO a even, skill-based MU, slightly Mesmer favoured maybe), Ele can easily hold the point if he plays well, druid can actually even win and condi-war shreds the mesmer. This build would disappear with the removal of mercs amu.
- Necro: In a pretty decent place now, but removing Mercs would hurt it greatly. I have no clue why some ppl actually choose to run wanderers, it’s so much worse than merc’s.
-Condi-war: It’s too early to say if it’s OP, but it likely is. But the kicker is, that out of the 3 builds that use mercs amu, war has by far the easiest time going for another amulet.
3) There might be some builds that could use mercs amu in the future, based on how the patches look like, especially D/D-Ele and condi-thief, which greatly rely on the mercs amu, because they simply need the stats provided by it.
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
Everyone is crying for a pause mode. Obviously i have no clue about online sports but real sports doesnt have the “ok lets stop everything for the hurt player”.
Many sports do, although there are about a bazillion other factors that matter when playing a game over the internet that can’t really be controlled that easily….. It’s simply a necessity to have a pause option in any game that wants to be taken serious as a competetive game.
@Topic: I really don’t watch the interviews…. I’d watch them if they’d talk about why they’ve made certain build decisions and precise strategic movements etc, but not that weird and boring fluff stuff or Helseth just being a troll. Maybe some of the interviews do offer more insight, but I don’t wanna listen to all the other stuff to maybe get some information Im actually interrsted in.
Well, so long warriors, again.
No. Power War with Demolisher GS X/Shield will be very good in Season 3 since Mesmer/Necros are squishier now.
Demo-War has no problem whatsoever against Necro, but it’s pretty even against Mesmer, so it’ll help there for sure.
Also, War could still use various other amus. Even running LB with demo-amu works pretty well.
Condi wins easily over power, the amount of condis applied by the war is simply too much for the power-war.
Power-War really isn’t that strong in 1v1’s anyways; I think it’s better than condi in teamfights, but the biggest benefit of condi war is IMHO that it has moderate to high advantages in basically every 1v1 matchup, while still being useful in teamfights.
@Spartacus: I don’t think condi-war will have big problems switching over to wanderer. Also, Power-War actually was pretty good against Condi-Mesmer and Necro’s, so it’s not really that good that those builds might be played less for the demo-war. ^^’
When will anet realize, that amulets are not the (main) issue?
So very very true. Amulets make builds possible, not necessarily overpowered and even if they turn out to be too strong, you can simply nerf the build and not negate whole builds and playstyles by removing the amulet.
Look what removing cele amu did: Ppl still complain about imbalanced stuff and ele being too strong, but ele is now just forced into clerics AMU and a full support build many players don’t enjoy playing. Also, Cele D/D would very likely not be too strong, same for cele druid and potential other cele-builds.
Removing Merc’s will simply make builds that use mixed dmg fully commit to condition dmg or fade away: We will potentially loose builds and gain more ppl complaining about condition-dmg being too strong.
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
Amulets are never the problem really….. They might make some builds possible, but instead of taking away those builds by removing amulets, they could just balance them…..
They don’t stand 2v1’s against even semi-decent dmg-dealers, so just don’t 1v1 them on point’s they control.
I was running this demo-war mostly:
I think it is slightly better in teamfights than tarcis’ LB/Mace+Shield build and a little better against Necro, but I think overall, his favourite build might indeed be one of the top-builds currently.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: War is gonna be meta next season.
True, we should show that this is exactly the thing we want: Precise and quick patches that fix obvious issues.
Keep ’em coming bois!
Good stuff, a few more rounds of those small but good balance-updates and I think we could be pretty happy.
what am i looking at exactly?
Rev is likely the best counter to demo/marauder/zerker-war, you can’t really do much except avoid the matchup.
Not the biggest of deals, since the build (GS Axe/Shield demo-war) is excellent in teamfights and most MU’s are either balanced or in favour of the War (except Rev obviously and Condi-Mesmer).
I run this build: (With Demolisher Amu!)
MM Necro
A bit harder than normal reaper, but still doable: LoS, block and dodge when he is in shroud, otherwhise burst him down with CC. Use Berserker Stance well during times when you cannot get rid of the condis with F1 skills.
Reaper
Likely the easiest MU for this Warrior build, you can burst him down pretty quickly with berserker stance on, or you can play it more safely by not just instapopping zerker stance and using F1 to cleanse.
Ele
This War build is actually one of the few builds that might win a 1v1 against an Ele. You sure as hell won´t die to it. Holding a point is very easy against it, but getting one back by actually killing the ele is a bit trickier: keep the CD´s of the ele in mind and try and burst him when he just came out of earth.
Chrono
One of the harder MU´s, but thats true for every build fighting chrono. Key is actually hitting your F1´s so they do dmg and not against blocks, evades, distortion. Also, manage your condi-cleanse well and as always, dodge Moa. One trick I use to dodge Moa is to look at the icons under the Mesmers healthbar when you have him targeted: If you don´t see the icon for the Moa, you´re good, if you see it, w8 until you see the icon for the F5, cuz most Mesmers will use it then. The Animation is quite distinct as well. Of course you shouldn´t just look at the icons, but just take a quick look every few seconds.
Ranger
Just practice to evade the big bursts of the Pet´s and use mass CC when he´s in F5-form. It´s really a quite easy MU.
DH
This one is likely one of th harder MU´s, cuz he has tons of blocks and most of your big dmg are single-atk´s. Try and burst him when he just switched to bow to not face the focus-blocks and LoS/dodge/block the bow.
Made a post about this recently – wanted this for years now…. Just show those kitten healthbars permanently over the chars – paleeeeaaaaase! ^^
Still loving skyhammer, but I have one major problem with Spirit Watch: The Orb transformation:
- You’re way too vulnerable.
- It’s not fun with just 2 useless skills.
- I don’t think it’s necessary that every class/build is equally able to run the orb.
Only a temporary ban… I’m surprised. Guess the community is too small to actually punish them.
well, 2016 just started, so a year long ban is IMHO enough…
I actually think the balance we have now is likely one of the best we’ve had in quite some time. But it’s just weird that when a class dominates a whole season, it gets buffed evn more in an otherwise pretty good balance patch.
I’ve played some Mesmer on this build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW8encfClph1fC2qBEgilnjq+PT0FFdxynH7sACgDD-TJRHABAcRAC4JAUfZAd3fAA
It actually feels pretty adequate, not too strong, still strong enough to be played on the highest levels. I feel the main offenders in terms of being too strong are:
1) Illusionary Reversion + Chronophantasma: These two together just make it way too easy to retain your illu’s and just spam out those shatters. Either nerf one of them into oblivion, or give them an ICD of maybe 8 seconds.
2) Signet of Illusions: Just way too strong together with IR and Chronophantasma.
3) Moa: It’s just a totally broken skill, single-handedly making it possible for the Mesmer to win any 1v1 he enters. They should completely revamp it and/or heavily reduce the Moa-duration. Again: The Mesmer has very viable alternatives to Moa, so they could just patch it out of the game for all I care. ^^’
Mesmers are part of the meta and have been due to portal.
Not in the last two seasons of the Leagues…..
First, there were the bunker-mesmers, which often didn’t even run portal and last season and now, the portal is just one part of what makes the mesmer likely the best build in the game:
- Amazing mobility (Portal, Blink, Staff2)
- One of the best, if not the best class for 1v1’s
- double Moa
- strong in teamfights as well (hard to focus, strong AoE, decent CC, Moa to kill clerics-ele’s, decent stomping/rezzing thanks to distortion).
It’s just a beast in all aspects of the game and there’s no doubt in my mind we’d see 2 condi-mesmers in most ESL teams if they were allowed to.
ICD of 10s on chronophantasma and illusionary reversion and completely revamp Moa into sth. that isn’t can’t single-handedly win you each and every matchup possible.
I have been playing a power based warrior intensively for the last couple of days in spvp, and i can honestly say… NO.
We have insane condi removal and surivability right now. I have been completely wrecking stuff left and right without too many issues, including mesmers necros and condi thiefs.
I have no idea what more you people want, warrior is perfectly fine as is. Some build variety to get out of the “def/disc/bers” trinity would be nice, but as is, i see very little reason to complain.
edit: I used almost the exact same build as poster above, with shield master instead of dogged march and eternal champion instead of bloody roar instead.
I went up against my first power war today as a a condimancer. Felt like my conditions just slid off them. Once they finally caught me with a hard CC and blink on CD it was game over for me. I can see wars getting back into the meta as a counter to condi classes.
Not necessarily a counter to condi-classes, since the matchup against condi-shatter is probably about even. Reaper has much more problems against the spiked dmg and in contrast to condi-shatter, isn’t completely broken. ^^’
As for other condi-builds…. there are none. :P
So here’s my Update after a few hours of 1v1’s and unranked regarding the different MU’s:
This is the build I used, with demo amu:
It’s supposed to be a well-balanced, 1v1-oriented build, possibly not the strongest role for war, as I think it’s best in teamfights.
VS Reaper: Heavily war-favoured. The condi-DMG of the reaper isn’t high/bursty enough and the reaper has severe problems with the CC and his low sustain.
VS Clerics Ele: The war isn’t going to die, but it’s one of the only builds I was actually able to kill multiple clerics-ele’s with in 1v1’s. In teamfights, demo-war practically eats clerics-eles. :P
VS Ranger: The Ranger gets shredded. Like the reaper he has huge problems with the CC and the high power-dmg really rips the menders-druids apart. I think war will be one of the reasons why menders-druid will be phased out in the competetive meta.
VS Engi: Haven’t played many engis, but it felt a bit engi-favoured. Have they changed rapid regen yet btw? ^^
VS Condi-Chrono: It’s not an easy MU, probably slightly mesmer-favoured. Then again; which 1v1 isn’t condi-mesmer favoured?
VS Rev: Haven’t played many either and couldn’t find decent players to 1v1, it’s also kinda hard to theorycraft the MU. My build is definitely not the best variation against rev, so I really don’t know who’d win. Any1 have some experiences with this MU?
VS Thief: very hard to play MU for the war and the one who makes a mistake looses. Blinds/dodges and well timed dazes/stuns can rip the war apart, but if I just land 1 stun and a combo and the thief has used his stunbreakers, he’s history.
VS DH: In theorycrafting, I thought this MU would be hard, cuz of aegis/focus blocks,
decent stability and stunbreakers of the DH. I only played a few DH’s in unranked, but I had no problems at all. I’d still say the MU is even at best for the war.
I think the MU’s look promosing for the fact that the build is much better in teamfights than in 1v1’s and a superb +1 roamer; if more than half of the MU’s are either even or favoured for the war, I can see it being pretty useful in high-level play.
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
GW2 PvP……condi spam still rule the world from PvP to WvW passing through PvE….
Pointless to ask for nerfs or changes at this point..it will never happen I guess, it was fun for a couple of days to try power builds…now back to condi cleanse bots…
I have the feeling that half of the actually played condition builds (reaper and chrono), got nerfed enough so it won’t be played like crazy anymore. Chrono is still too strong, but reaper really isn’t that amazing anymore and might be in the middle of the classes now.
Also, some new power builds came out of the new patch, like demo war and thief that might actually be quite decent.
But yes, you will have to either have some condi-cleanse yourself (at least if you wanna go for sidenodes and 1v1, cuz you will encounter a chronomesmer), or have an ele in your teamfights to take care of some of the condis.
I absolutely see no problem with that.
l2p issue: Current demo war build with defense/disc/Berz is very strong, but hard to play and hard to play against. Learn the MU’s and how to play it and be amazed at what it can do.
people complaing about warrior sustain have no clue as to what they are doing, Warrior is in a good spot right now, If anything its OP.
Warrior OP because it has better semi-passive regen?
Wow.
1) Better regen is an understatement, it’s a massive boost.
2) The defensive traits got buffed as well, it might not look like much, but for example the fact that endure pain triggers at 50% instead of 25% health is huge and the double amount of regen (from 30% to 60% uptime) and better thick skin is decent as well.
3) The new demolisher amu works extremely well with warrior, since war lacks dmg-mitigation (no protection, no %-dmg reduction, not much evades and a underwhelming block), so more toughness is always better than a higher healthpool, which is already very large.
I’ve played with the build again today and I still like it very much. I got strong results in many 1v1’s and in teamfights together with an ele (for protection and more sustain) the build is basically godmode.
It’s a very hard and unforgiving build to play and it requires skill to play against it as well: Most dmg comes from single-hit attacks, which can make the build vulnerable to well-timed blinds, dodges, blocks etc. It’s also crucial for the war to use the CC right and land those important attacks, while it’s crucial for the opposing player to prevent that. I think that’s a very nice dynamic that rewards the better player greatly.
In teamfights though, that is often a smaller issue; you got other players that CC as well and most atk’s can hit multiple targets, so it’s not as unforgiving. I think the build will be used more as a teamfighter or +1 roamer, but it can hold it’s own in quite a few 1v1-matchups, but that likely won’t be the smartest way to play the build.
no to this change. this is not what warrior needs, what warrior needs is usefulness to the team.
Sorry, but surviving and killing the enemy “is” usefulness. Warrior shouldn’t be a utility class, this isn’t pve.
shoutbow and hambow were both picked because of their utility in the past. shoutbow for heal cleanse and res, hambow for stun combo setups.
all a berserker can do can be achieved by any other class more successfully.
every other class brings at least 1 more thing than just “kill and survive”.
ele – reflect + heal + cleanse
ranger – heal + shoutres
engi – heal + reflect + stealth
mesmer – portal + moa
rev – boons + boon removal with mallyx
thief – mobility + instastomp
necro – boon removal
guardian – aoe stability + cleanse + heal
warrior – ?Warrior – best CC in the game, best cleave in the game, sick amounts of stability if traited, likely highest DPS, decent mobility.
Also, I really liked how zerker war was used in the US meta and by ORNG before HoT’s – It needed a lot of support and didn’t offer a ton of teamsupport/utilities, but it was worth it cuz it was simply a DPS-machine.
Seriously..? do you play mesmer, ranger, rev..or anything? best CC?…best cleave?…sick amounts of stability? really?…
and dps war really? people only used it for rampage and even so people are slowly learning to dodge it and it was dropping out of the meta either wayseriously, people who thinks warrior are fine are either amber level or just wvw killing uplevels……….unless they prove me wrong in-game or video with high end plays against competent opponent, other then that it’s just BS talk..every single patch since hot there are people like this who say warrior fine cuz they killed some people…no..later they just disappare
Well, I kinda don’t fit your profile then, cuz I have about 10k PvP Games and with two seasons combined Legendary Rank x10+. I also talk to a lot of top-players, including multiple ESL-players and LX5+ ppl and they all feel that the demolisher war build has a lot of potential. Yes, it’s just a first assumption and the meta needs to be figured out better to know which 1v1’s actually matter, but at first glance, war looks amazing.
I also predicted most common comps in the last few ESL-seasons and told ppl that certain builds will be meta and got laughed at and I turned out to be right: Clerics-amu Ele is the last example, ppl told me more or less the same stuff you’re telling me on the forums, but I turned out to be right. You know why? Cuz I extensively test builds, have a deep understanding of how the game works and cuz I talk with a multitude of high-performing players.
But yes, not all builds combine all the aspects I’ve mentioned before, cleave obviously comes to a large part from the GS, CC from the Hammer etc. And with downed cleave, I mean fast dmg that you can’t actually rez up against, very few come close to war in that aspect.
And if anything gets more stability than war with balanced stance, last stand and eternal champion, plz do let me know.
I’m gonna extensively test the build again today in some designated 1v1’s and I’ll be able to come to a better grip of how strong the build is.
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
People want to play the warrior to be this sustain machine. As soon as they accept the fact that we have good, hard, reliable, cc and some insane dps we can put a ton of pressure on these “meta” classes, the better off they will be. I personally have never had an issue in spvp, even versus meta classes, I mean I down necros and mesmers fairly easy, maybe they are bad? Maybe I’m just better?
It takes work, and situational awareness to play warrior, you cant just mash buttons and win most times, but it can be done.
We just have a bad stigma.
I like the approach of War needing some support, but offering tons of DPS/CC to make up for it, but it might not be true anymore with the new adrenal health. Have you seen those heal numbers? Together with Heal Sig, it’s like 8k/10s. Add the highest base-stats in the game and very strong condi-cleanse and it doesn’t look as bad in terms of survival. And I tested that stuff on demolisher Amu and still did some of the highest DPS I ever had on any class.
I think war might actually be in a good place right now, maybe not “condi-shatter mesmer good”, but “worth-playing in ESL good” and I like that.
no to this change. this is not what warrior needs, what warrior needs is usefulness to the team.
Sorry, but surviving and killing the enemy “is” usefulness. Warrior shouldn’t be a utility class, this isn’t pve.
shoutbow and hambow were both picked because of their utility in the past. shoutbow for heal cleanse and res, hambow for stun combo setups.
all a berserker can do can be achieved by any other class more successfully.
every other class brings at least 1 more thing than just “kill and survive”.
ele – reflect + heal + cleanse
ranger – heal + shoutres
engi – heal + reflect + stealth
mesmer – portal + moa
rev – boons + boon removal with mallyx
thief – mobility + instastomp
necro – boon removal
guardian – aoe stability + cleanse + heal
warrior – ?
Warrior – best CC in the game, best cleave in the game, sick amounts of stability if traited, likely highest DPS, decent mobility.
Also, I really liked how zerker war was used in the US meta and by ORNG before HoT’s – It needed a lot of support and didn’t offer a ton of teamsupport/utilities, but it was worth it cuz it was simply a DPS-machine.
Wow, when I read the title to this thread I thought: Ppl are ALREADY complaining that war is too survivable? But it’s the opposite. :p
The new Defense Trait-changes are great, except adrenal health, cuz thats borderline broken. First, let’s see what builds ppl come up with, cuz even on pretty offensive amu’s (demolisher), the war felt very very tanky to me and I had some of the highest DPS number’s I’ve had on any build.
I totally wrecked any condition-build and most power-builds, only thief gave me a bit of problems cuz of constant blinds/dodges, but I think if I time the burst/CC right, the MU might be pretty 50:50. It’s also the only build where I was able to kill clerics bunker-ele’s…. Only unranked ones though, so take that with a grain of salt. ^^
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
Plzplzplz,
This is sooooo needed.
Currently, if I wanna heal/support properly, I either have to always look at the names and then search the character on the battlefield, or manually keep moving over my allies to see their HP.
I also don’t think the argument of “it requires more skill” is valid, since it’s more of an issue for solo-Q: in team-Q, you communicate, know the players better and where they are etc which makes it much easier to find them quickly.
This really shouldn’t be too big of a request now, would it? ^^
Condi shatter mesmer definitely needed a nerf, but got a buff instead – really don’t know why. It simply needs an ICD of 10 seconds on both Illu Reversion and Chronophantasma.
Other than that, the patch was great: Still not sure if Ele is usable without clerics (which is important to me, cuz I don’t wanna necessarily keep playing clerics all the time), but it looks more promising than last patch.
The top-3 builds are maybe still a bit too strong (power-rev, clerics ele and condi-mesmer) but the rest got much more closer together. Srsly: If they tone down the top-3 builds a bit, it might be the closest balance between classes yet.
First glance opinion of course.
I absolute love the changes they did and my first opinion is that they will work great in ESL and ranked play.
Anyone else getting destroyed by revenant? For some reason they feel even stronger now.
Do you use stone heart? Do you double dodge UA?
The only skill which is hard to avoid is staff 5, that thing hit hard and almost instant but luckily revs will use it out of a precise pattern, you can double dodge precision strike and UA, strife out of legendary blast with timing, do your best to avoid chaotic release with either a dodge (if you had stone heart to counter UA/precision strike) or lightning flash out of it
Luckily they are far more bad revs than good ones, the first will just predictably unload all burst in one go, which will leave them out of juice after few secs, the latter can be stalled..for as long as one of the two opponents does not make a huge mistake
Does not matter. A good rev will eat a FA ele alive. Hell they can even eat druids alive. They are simply overtuned.
I see no way that an FA ele can beat rev atm. but is that really that bad? I mean, FA is a teamfight build anyways and I think it might even have quite a few 1v1’s where it does well or at least can hold the point a bit.
I think in teamfights, an FA is much more worth than a rev, the question is, is it worth playing in a 5man comp, when the clearly best ele build still is clerics?
Gonna definitely try scepter on clerics build though, the on-point/downed pressure is way better than on dagger.
Yepp, the Scepter buffs really made me happy as wel, can’t w8 to test them out. I’d be very happy if Fresh Air finally turned out to be a viable build, since it’s one of the hardest and most fun builds to play.
I think it was a good nerf. The Problem is that some of the strongest classes got no nerf. If Mesmer, Rev and Ele (cleric, everything else was trash before and might now have some value… at least at first glance) got the same treatment as Engi, then they would be more in line with the rest.
Also, Engi can still boost his healing power up very easily: Energy Amplifier gives him a 250 by default, runes easily add even more and Engi is a class that can actually gor for sth. like menders runes, cuz you got traits like adaptive armor.
Also, many of the elixirs got minor buff and slick shoes a nerf anyways, so ppl might simply choose another elixir instead of the shoes and go for mass momentum instead of rapid regen…..
I still see Engi being viable in ESL-teams. Without class stacking though, it’s gonna be all 2 Power Rev, 2 Condi-Mes and 1 clerics-Ele. :P
because some power specs last more than the 3 seconds that the average power rev lasts vs the condi cancer classes out there.
This is only a problem of random groups, because:
- More condi-classes are played even though it makes no sense
- People don’t focus properly, if they would, power would have a huge advantage in design alone over conditions
- People often don’t run the proper builds/lack support
- People run certain Reaper builds for example that would get destroyed within seconds against good teams because they run offensive utilities and don’t get punished for it.
Was nice to see some non-meta builds, but as expected, they lost: Guess thats why the builds are non-meta.
I think the builds have potential, but you can’t just use them against whatever comp you like.
I mean: I can see the DH of Tagé doing well, but maybe if there’s 1 less direct counter on the team. For example if the enemy team has no scrapper.
I liked to combination of DH and Ele though, I can see this comp holding on against 3 players while the other 3 highly mobile dps-classes collapse on a point.
I was actually just making a really. really bad joke. (bow to me)
I kinda liked it. :P
This is actually amazing news! I hated that weird lock-on so much, I’m already happy with the upcoming patch. :P
Most ppl here haven’t played against good thieves I guess. The problem aren’t the spikes, it’s the pressure with impacting disruption headshots and steal/shadowshot/shadowstep into autoattacks – at least for me it was.
Best advice is to LoS well and set up overloads, use absorb/reflect/blinds against the ranged interrupts and spike him down when he tries to come in for AA’s.
On certain nodes, where you can’t really LoS the thief, it’s IMHO almost unwinnable.
^this, unwinnable it’s the correct word
Zerk fresh air should be taking tempest defense. Thief has literally 0 answers to shocking aura. It’s one of the most onesided matchups in the game.
ooookay….. ^^’
Let me explain how a good thief plays this MU:
- stay ranged, spam headshots to interrupt the overloads or any other spells, this will also trigger tempest defense, making it utterly useless in this MU. It will also proc impacting disruption, dealing huge amounts of dmg.
- As soon as ele switches out of air, he goes in for autoattacks (often with a steal, to take away your prot).
- Then he goes ranged and likely invis again and does it all over again.There’s no way you’ll outsustain it, since you deal no dmg to the thief if you don’t land an insane stun/knockback-combo, which good thiefs won’t let happen.
I’m so tired of people who are simply bad at the game assuming that their personal failings should be addressed by balance changes.
You’re literally losing to headshot spam playing fresh air. And still have the balls to come and pretend like you know what you’re talking about. Maybe it makes you feel better about your losses to think that the matchup is a bad one, but it’s doing the rest of the community a disservice to spread delusions as facts.
totally knew sth like that was coming.
But good for you if you win against thief. I have played maybe 50 1v1’s against Legend x5+ Thiefs at the start of last season on fresh air (yes, it’s been quite a while) and lost most of them. I’m also not a player who gives up easily and I tried quite a few different ways to approach the MU but didn’t find an answer. I gave up on the build although I felt it was strong in teamfights, because it lost almost all 1v1 MU’s and is too slow for a +1/teamfighter compared to rev.
I would build the basic fresh ait like this.
You can take shoking aura over cooldown reduction in air, but that extra precision is nice in the build.http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJArdnMIC9MgdOAOOA8RghGATCkBgPYVIvCRhJF0BmhA-TJBFAB6s/ABnAAAeAAiXGAA
This should be much more suited. I have good experience with arcane brilliance and the shield traited. Vamire rune + brilliance rocks too ;-).
Earth + stone heart + FSG is dam good. You put up rock barrier and draw the sword.I personally used scavenger rune but the power of vamire suits well too. My build was condi.
I also used leeching sigil for maximum drains but air hurts a bit more.
The only reason fresh air is only semi-bad and not complete trash is cuz you get air-overload every 10 seconds (if you always fully channel it), why would you not run tempest?
There you go; fresh air, teamfight build:
You can also go stoneheart+marauder amu.
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
Most ppl here haven’t played against good thieves I guess. The problem aren’t the spikes, it’s the pressure with impacting disruption headshots and steal/shadowshot/shadowstep into autoattacks – at least for me it was.
Best advice is to LoS well and set up overloads, use absorb/reflect/blinds against the ranged interrupts and spike him down when he tries to come in for AA’s.
On certain nodes, where you can’t really LoS the thief, it’s IMHO almost unwinnable.
^this, unwinnable it’s the correct word
Zerk fresh air should be taking tempest defense. Thief has literally 0 answers to shocking aura. It’s one of the most onesided matchups in the game.
ooookay….. ^^’
Let me explain how a good thief plays this MU:
- stay ranged, spam headshots to interrupt the overloads or any other spells, this will also trigger tempest defense, making it utterly useless in this MU. It will also proc impacting disruption, dealing huge amounts of dmg.
- As soon as ele switches out of air, he goes in for autoattacks (often with a steal, to take away your prot).
- Then he goes ranged and likely invis again and does it all over again.
There’s no way you’ll outsustain it, since you deal no dmg to the thief if you don’t land an insane stun/knockback-combo, which good thiefs won’t let happen.
Looks interesting, but not running DS pretty much means you’ll loose to Mesmer and Necro (not 100% sure about necro, but the fact that you’ll do more dmg to yourself with conditions than to the necro, I think this MU is lost). So we’re left with scrapper/rev and druid as the most common 1v1’s. I highly doubt it will win against any of those, but I’d have to try myself. I’ll realy need to see how good stone-heart feels against physical DMG nowadays.
But the Problem is exactly the opposite of what you’re saying: Ele heals aren’t too high, they are too low – on low healing power numbers that is.
They should just get rid of clerics (I’m baffled why they didn’t already) and boost the ele’s heal (mostly on low healing power numbers) and I mean boost it a lot!
After playing D/D with menders, pala and merc against decent players, I have to say it’s pretty terrible. I came up with an interesting build I’m currently trying out though:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYn0XCdOg9XCWOAcYilPAjYEEB2ADHgAQ/z9teX/rA-TJRHwAAOBA82fQZZgAPAAA
You basically trade flash freeze for mist form so you can’t be spiked down so easily (cuz focus is great against spiked dmg, offhand dagger – not so much). Also, I like the added condi-dmg from strength of stone, since I don’t need the earth CD’s reduced and I have more than enough condi-clear for reduced durations to come into play that often.
So you get more condi-dmg, more power-dmg, more mobility, but you’re easier to spike down (still decent against spiked dmg though) and worse against projectiles (which I don’t see that often anyways).
I think the main advantage is that this build might actually be able to kill certain low-sustain classes in 1v1’s, haven’t tested it yet though. It also offers more dmg, which can be pretty important in 2v2’s especially.