I’ve been legendary last season. I know the basics of pvp, how else i would have 3000 games already? I think Anet made a bad algorithm in their MMR. I always get people who are unexperienced in my team in pvp. How am i suposed to get out tier 3 sapphire if i keep getting a team with 3 necro’s in the last 2 pips of the third tier????
Legendary last season means nothing and 3000 games mean nothing as well. 3000 isn’t that much either, I have 8k+.
Atm. an easy tip I can give you to not be just a kitten, is: multiclass.
The counters in the current meta are often so hard, it makes up for quite a lot of skill if you have some experience with the class. I currently switch between clerics-ele, marauder-rev and necro:
- Ele hardcounters necro, condi-rev and DH.
- Rev I use when we need mobility and DPS, it counters DH and thief and is strong against Ele’s in teamfights. It’s also strong against rez-rangers in teamfights, thx to high mobility and enough AoE-CC to abuse the low amount of stability the ranger has.
- Necro is against rev’s, rangers and scrappers (the new build really doesn’t seem that good against reapers).
Scrapper of course counters DH and rev’s, so it can be a good choice as well.
Two of the undoubtedly best classes aren’t played very often at all (rev and scrapper), while two of the worst ones are (thief and DH). It’s pretty weird.
not gonna happen, not needed. The classes are mostly different enough so that stacking one 3+ times won’t help you against balanced teams.
most of my games are +2 pips… last 10 games are 9 wins.
i kept getting thrown into a team that cant even handle a 1v1
and if manage to win once a blue moon, is a 2 pip…that kind of team….
Today, I was literally holding a 2v1 for a good 5 Minutes and the team still managed to not win any fights on the other nodes. :P
It really shows how bad some players are when it comes to handling downed bodies (stomping, rezzing, cleaving) and how bad the positioning is. Literally just 4 ppl standing on top of a Node while being bombarded with traps, marks etc. No wonder noobs call DH strong. -.-°
80% are very easy wins and the rest my teammates are so bad it’s an absolute stomp.
I agree that on certain classes, specific traitlines are pretty redundant in what they do, while those things are absent in others. You’ve already pointed out some examples, here’s my take on the IMHO worst ones:
Mesmer
Inspiration condition-removal or dealing with conditions through resistance: Menders Purity, Restorative Illusions and Temporal Enchanter (Medic’s Feedback which is directly linked to it). So 4 traits dedicated to dealing with condi’s in one traitline, while all the others combined don’t even have that much.
Warrior:
Almost all defensive traits are in either the aptly named “defense” traitline, or in tactics. Counting all defensive traits (power defense, anti-condition, healing etc.),
- Defenses has about 9 (depending on what exactly you count as defensive, I counted the vigor/stability of Last stand as well)
- Tactics has 5
- Strength 2 // Arms 0 // Discipline 3 (2 being awful) // Berserker 2 (Dead or Alive arguably awful)
Just switch around some of the traits. I don’t even mind if there are instances of traits existing in multiple traitlines, it’s better to have useful options twice on multiple traitlines than to have more diverse traits, but half of them are never gonna be used.
You guys do realize that all this would come with a huge drawback: longer wait-times. It’s simply not possible in ranked, since ppl can switch the class before the Match anyways, so they’d have to change that as well, which creates more problems since you wouldn’t be able to react to your opponents comp anymore (which is IMHO a good thing for sth. like leagues).
That was way less than I expected…. They could’ve done some pretty decent balance-changes that where only minor number-tweaks that didn’t take much effort…
Pretty disappointed… That being said, I think the meta is better than at the start of the last league-season. Doesn’t say too much though. :P
“Wash the Pain Away!” Reduce healing to allies by 50%. Additionnally, increase area of first pulse to 240, up from 180; increase second pulse to 360, up from 240.
Bring Geomancer’s Training and Elemental Shielding at the same trait tier to force a choice between one or the other.
Split Cleric Amulet in a four stat amulet.
1050 power 1050 healing 560 precision 560 thoughness.
And I am not here just for nerfs.
1. Reduce the recharge of Overloads to 15 seconds, down from 20.
2. Increase the protection duration from Hardy Conduit to 5 seconds, up from 3.
Looks like you haven’t thought one second about those changes…
Wash the Pain away is actually a hard to use and impactful skill that doesn’t exist in other classes, why nerf it? To make the heal more or less like all the other heals? -.-°
And why make the AoE bigger? So it’s just another huge AoE-ability where you don’t have to think about positioning? I really don’t get it.
Also, geomancers training and elemental shielding are pretty much core-aspects of why the build works. Might as well just get rid of it if you make Ele’s choose between one of them. At least think about bringing other traits up to a useful strength, like increasing the stability-time on rock solid to at least 3 seconds.
I think there is a pretty easy and effective way to slightly tone down clerics-ele without killing it and to bring more offensive ele-builds up to a playable level: Make the heal-skills scale less with healing power, but start at a better baseline. Cut off 10% at the top and make it start at 10% better healing with 0 Healing Power.
Eles strength is very closely tied to it’s sustain and healing; it doesn’t have tons of evades, blocks, stealth and other stuff, so it relies heavily on having sustain. With the new amu’s, you have no real choice but to go Merc or Pala for offensive builds, since you desperately need the defensive stats.
Clerics amu only works cuz of the huge toughness and the ability to go for so many anti-condition traits, that the low healthpool isn’t as bad against conditions. It also relies heavily on the CD’s of the focus. If you take one of them away, the build is trash.
But the build has such a low DMG-output and can easily be countered with smart play, that it really doesn’t need a nerf at all.
*Edit: Of course bad players will whine like hell if they can’t kill the bunker build with 1 high-dps build or with 2 low-dps builds when they just spam skills on top of it without thinking about the ele’s CD’s, stunlocking, interrupting the right stuff etc.
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
Well, the builsd were pretty much what I was expecting. Druid was a bit surprising, but not that much. The only curveball was the mesmer, which was a pick I didn’t understand at all.
Thief is just a decapper/+1 and is way too bad in teamfights. They could maybe change sth. about Shortbow or the survival of the Thief to make up for that.
Warrior needs a complete overhaul, they can easily combine half of the berserker traits or make some of them baseline und put in more defensive options.
Mesmer doesn’t need tons of changes, just a split of alacrity from PvE and up to 50% reduction in PvP.
In terms of druid, they should decrease the DMG of Bristle/Smokescale and buff the druid itself a bit. Pretty much all weapons except staff are crap or get hardcountered by the meta (projectiles suck, that’s why DH sucks so much) and Staff could even use a slight buff. The traits and skills all seem fine to me, but most weapons just need a dps-buff.
DH has similar problems: The only decent weapon with enough DMG is LB, but it gets hardcountered by all the projectile-absorb/reflect. Just buff the DMG of the other weapons. Like on the druid, I think the traits and skills are fine, but the weapons just suck.
I enjoyed the finals quite a bit; the meta looked pretty decent and it was more fast-paced without all the quickness-rezzes and stuff.
The builds were pretty much what I was expecting, but I was glad to see that certain builds, like the druid, had a strong showing, even though it was only played by one team.
well, if there are so many thiefs, It clearly has nothing to do with balance, cuz thiefs are still mid tier at best.
And reaper is pretty much on an equal level as the other top-builds (scrapper, ele, rev). I guess ppl just like to play reaper and thief, regardless of balance. Not much you can do about that.
It’s a hotfix. ANet knows that this isn’t going to fix the problem in the long run or replace balancing.
Besides, I actually think teams will have looked exactly the same even without class stacking rules.
My hopes:
- Scrapper: Tone down healing numbers by at least 20%.Tone down healing number for spec without healing power, but for those who like to heals with healing power, give something more.
Support need to get “clear”. We can’t kill things up, but at least give us the way to support our team mate.
At least, plz don’t nerf healing for all spec, just for DPS one.
Thank you,
Dal
Decent scaling would have to start beyond 250 though, since most Scrapper builds get 250 Healing Power by default via traits and very high reg-uptime.
I had tons of 5+ winning streaks and I think it’s a good thing, cuz it allows better and more consistent players to climb the ranks more quickly.
Stop whining.
Yes, a lot of ppl play thief, but that really doesn’t say anything about how strong it is, cuz it’s not very strong. Thief doesn’t need a nerf at all.
- Druid: Staff AA DMG buff by 20%, Bristle and SMokescale DMG reduction by 20%
Stop suggesting that garbage. How often are we supposed to tell you that staff dmg exceeds all the other ranger weapons even though dmg is the main purpose of those. Do some testing if you don’t believe it. Staff already beats all ranger melee weapons because their slightly higher dmg is so much harder to connect on melee range. It also has a much more reliable chance to hit dodging thieves or through aegis due to the 3 small pulses per attack. And it straight out beats longbow damage on close and midrange. Max range is literally the only distance where a signle weapon is left (lb) that beats staff.
Stop. Suggesting. That garbage.
Sm1 is salty today…. Also, it doesn’t matter one bit if the other weapons of the Ranger do less DMG, since the other weapons are pretty much all crap.
Like many of the older weapons, they simply cannot compete whatsoever in terms of DMG with the new ones like pretty much all weapons from the rev, scrapper hammer, DH LB (it’s still crap, cuz it gets hardcountered too easily) etc.
I’m also for a buff on Ranger Sword AA (just make it a normal atk-chain with 20% more DMG), but I wanted to keep my suggestions short.
So, either deal with my opinion, or be salty about it and keep raging; I really don’t care. ^^’
daredevil and DH are bad…. Sooo many hardcounters to choose from; learn to play one.
My hopes:
- Reaper: Chill DMG reduction by 20%.
- Rev: Sword 3 DMG nerf by 20% and Infuse Light healing nerf by 20%.
- Ele: Healing scaling better for low healing power numbers & Scepter AA buff by about 20%.
- Chronomancer: Alacrity from 33% up to 50% recharge reduction.
- Scrapper: Tone down healing numbers by at least 20%.
- Druid: Staff AA DMG buff by 20%, Bristle and SMokescale DMG reduction by 20%.
- The other classes IMHO require more elaborate changes for a “minor balance tweak” patch.
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
Once again people qq that dh is the 6th best class! Wow! Way too good right, pls nerf. Warrior too
haha, so true… really shows the amount of knowledge/skill floating around on this forum….
Sometimes its more than strict class meta ranking in the pro tournaments that matter. I will argue that for the bulk of players (within a standard deviation or two of talent from the median) the DH is far more effective than the pro’s find it.
Consider the whole engi turret debacle. I suspect if you take an objective look you were probably happy to see turrets get nerfed, and those turret engi builds weren’t by any means used in pro league at all. The reason the nerf was needed was not because of relative strength of the build, but because of the play style and game flow it engendered. And there were some eggs broken with that omlette because it made supply crate suck, which is something that all engi builds were relying on at the time, not just the turret ones. So it might help you to understand the complaints if you frame them in the same light as the engi turret hate that was on before.
Incidentally thanks to that turrets are absolutely useless now (aside from healing), and so their nerf wasn’t to adjust to make it more competitive or skill based but to remove the things all together from use…. which was a very lazy fix in my opinion. I’m hoping that doesn’t happen here.
I don’t think DH is as dumb as turret engi or minion mancer, traps actually offer a few unique strategic opportunities; the build isn’t the hardest to play, but it’s not the easiest either.
The reason why it’s better in lower levels of play is pretty simple: The hardest counters like D/F-clerics Ele and Scrapper and builds that do decent against it like rev’s, are IMHO played way less than Necro, which is not really strong against DH at all.
Also, most hardcounters actually require skill to hardcounter the DH, so on top of the counters being played less often, they are also played less effectively.
Those counters really are IMHO the downfall of the DH and why it’s strength is so closely tied to the meta: it gets countered extremely hard by projectile absorbs/reflects and decent amounts of stability/invulnerability. Also, the decent amount of block/evades on for example rev and scrapper do very well against the DH’s very bursty dmg. But if those counters aren’t being played, the build suddenly get pretty strong. That’s IMHO not how a well balanced game should turn out.
Cool stuff, actually looking forward to the 23rd!
I think S2 will be much less salty than S1, which was McDonald’s Fries levels of salt. ^^’
If the small balance changes are decent and If ANet reacts fast to any possible important issues (concerning balance or the league system in general), I think I’ll be playing quite a bit again.
Once again people qq that dh is the 6th best class! Wow! Way too good right, pls nerf. Warrior too
haha, so true… really shows the amount of knowledge/skill floating around on this forum….
DH is not strong…. there will be no DH’s in the ESL finals nor in the upcoming league games.
kek just watch and learn you’re in for a sweet surprise
wanna bet 10 gold we’ll see no DH on saturday in the finals?
DH is not strong…. there will be no DH’s in the ESL finals nor in the upcoming league games.
Traps are decent, but in terms of weapons, the only thing useful is the LB, which gets hardcountered into oblivion by way too many top-builds. Even the Traps have some serious hardcounters within the top metabuilds.
If you constantly loose against DH’s, why not run one of the many builds that crushes it, if no1 in your team wants to play anything but reaper? -.-°
It’s your opinion that hybrid builds lose 1vs1, whether is true or not…it requires another thread. Although i can guarantee you that merc/paladin builds can hold/win still when built properly
Well, I’ve played D/D-Ele almost all of the last league season and made it to LX2 in almost only solo-Q’s. I actively searched 1v1’s and I’ve had a very good win-rate in 1v1’s (I didn’t engage druids cuz I knew I’d loose and I knew I’d only get a draw against scrappers, so I only engaged when I was holding the point for our team).
With the new Patch, I’ve tested several more offensive ele builds against strong Legendary players in hundreds of 1v1’s and talked to a few ESL-players about the state of Ele in 1v1’s and how they are doing: Most of them said they can beat Reaper (in my experience, it’s possible, but it’s a very unforgiving MU for the Ele, 1 mistake and you’re out), but they are having problems against scrapper, druid, power-rev and some builds even struggle with thiefs. The sustain was almost always what allowed ele to beat more offensive builds and at least made him survive against more balanced and sustain-oriented builds and you feel that very strongly in 1v1’s.
So yes, it’s my opinion based on extensive testing/theorycrafting and that of some other players, but I cannot give you scientific proof for it. -.-°
So ele is left with a good support build wich ele players don´t like …..
I tried clerics and it feels bad…. I prefer a hybrid build that do active support and preassure. Just taking the punch evadign and healing is to one dimensional. I use my hybrid in solo que and it works well. I am weak to 3+ focus fire. If i notice a coordianted team oposing me i can´t play lazy :-).
First of all, I like playing pure support, secondly, more dps-oriented builds might “feel” useful in some situations and they actually can be slightly better than clerics in some specific scenarios (best example are 2v2 scenarios where you often need a bit more dmg), but in 1v1’s, it just looses to way too many builds and in teamfights where you actually have enough dmg, clerics ele is IMHO better as well.
Best thing you can do to make more hybrid and dps-oriented builds better is IMHO:
- Bring the very strong builds in line by toning them down a bit (reaper, scrapper, rev)
- Better base-stats for Ele (could be making clerics better as well, so there would maybe need to be some changes there)
- Better Healing Power Runes.
- Some ways to boost healing power on ele, likely through traits, based on more dps-oriented stats like condi-dmg or power.
- Slightly better healing on low healing power levels.
The suggested build is bad, it does not work. That is not a support build at all.
Yes, it removes conditions with shouts, but the cooldown on shouts can not provide elementalist the status of support.
Choosing Cleric or Mender amulets can not provide status of support to ele, because all that healing (from major stats) goes mostly to self healing, not party healing, therefore… no support in healing.
In best case scenario (build provided) an elementalist is a selfish bunker with 29 useless spells for himself to troll around on a point.
Have fun.
Wrong on so many levels…. Just w8 till the league finals, I’ve already talked to many top-players and they all said that their team is definitely gonna run a D/F clerics-ele.
Maybe D/F cleric or mender but if top level teams use that spec it will be with aura share which your build doesn’t have. Your build is not a team build.
aura share depends on your comp and your opponents comp. Some might run aura-share, some might run condi-cleanse. But in the current meta in top-teams, aurashare is probably more likely, true.
If you look at soloQ or sth. though with 3+ reapers per team, condi-cleanse is better. :P
The suggested build is bad, it does not work. That is not a support build at all.
Yes, it removes conditions with shouts, but the cooldown on shouts can not provide elementalist the status of support.
Choosing Cleric or Mender amulets can not provide status of support to ele, because all that healing (from major stats) goes mostly to self healing, not party healing, therefore… no support in healing.
In best case scenario (build provided) an elementalist is a selfish bunker with 29 useless spells for himself to troll around on a point.
Have fun.
Wrong on so many levels…. Just w8 till the league finals, I’ve already talked to many top-players and they all said that their team is definitely gonna run a D/F clerics-ele.
Any team right now that can’t kill an Ele in a focus fire is not ESL material.
Any Ele that is bad enough to simply get focused down so easily is not ESL material either.
Also, any teammates of the ele that don’t know how to relieve pressure from the ele and to apply counterpressure aren’t ESL material either.
Nope – Ele is pretty sick actually. Try this:
By far highest support (boons, condi-removal, auras, healing numbers) and unkillable in a 1v1.
I saw this build from tons of competetive players and smaller tournaments and I thought it would suck as well, but it’s insane. Yes, you have no DMG, but in all other aspects, it’s pretty much godlike.
Also, reapers won’t do anything to this build.
*Edit: It’s actually that good, that I’ve seen quite a few ESL-players that normally don’t play Ele practice it, likely for the upcoming season finale. Not gonna drop names though, since they helped me with the build and I don’t wanna spoil any teams strategies.
So you don’t die, what is the point, in a 4vs4 team fight, can you keep you team mate alive when he is focused, I don’t think so. Can you keep yourself alive in 4vs4 when you are focus fired, I don’t think so.
You don’t deal any damage so what is the purpose.
They change the name of the Ele class and call it ‘Big Circle’ this is the same staff we had 2 years ago before Cele buff, hopeless tries to make Ele work with cleric amulet, one stun lock and you will drop like stone.
I tried to use D/X to see how bad it is, I can only take it for 2 minutes, clear condi, loaded again with condi, clear condi loaded again with condi and guess what I can’t heal without healing power, drop toughness and get healing, ohhh, thief one shots me.
Only Ele I can even tolerate at the moment is S/F FA because he does not have to eat all meaningless AOE condi spam on melee range.
D/X versions without toughness/vitality/healing are no-go.
Well, you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about.
A good cleric-ele can in fact heal against spikes and put out healing numbers, condi-cleanses, protection and auras to a degree where it easily makes up for the lack of dps.
FA is pretty bad and won’t see any competetive play at all. The D/F clerics builds is literally the only build that works in the current meta with scrappers, reapers, revs and the cleric-ele itself.
Fresh air is viable? That’s a new one. At least if you talk about marauder/zerker fresh air. It can maybe work in unranked, but once you face decent people you’ll be better off with anything else. That might be the issue for the whole class, not just one build, though.
Fresh air was never viable in the first place to the point it was competitive. Then it got nerfed and other stuff buffed.
EDIT: Yeah, FA got buffed, but it still didn’t solve the core issues of the spec.
Fresh Air isn’t bad, but on a competetive level it has too many disadvantages:
- Good Interrupts pwn it.
- Mobility isn’t high enough.
- Can be trained down too easy.
- Doesn’t do well in too many 1v1’s.
- Rev simply is a better choice as a DPS-class in almost every aspect.
Nope – Ele is pretty sick actually. Try this:
By far highest support (boons, condi-removal, auras, healing numbers) and unkillable in a 1v1.
I saw this build from tons of competetive players and smaller tournaments and I thought it would suck as well, but it’s insane. Yes, you have no DMG, but in all other aspects, it’s pretty much godlike.
Also, reapers won’t do anything to this build.
*Edit: It’s actually that good, that I’ve seen quite a few ESL-players that normally don’t play Ele practice it, likely for the upcoming season finale. Not gonna drop names though, since they helped me with the build and I don’t wanna spoil any teams strategies.
The only reason this build may be seen in pvp at all, it’s because of the ESL rule that prohibits profession stacking otherwise you would see only reaper-scrappers-druid-heralds and thieves in the meta section of metabattle
I used to think so too, but I’m not sure anymore, since the ele provides much needed support/condicleanse in teamfights. Also, the DMG should be enough with revs and reaper to allow a low-dps support class in the comp.
It’s possible that some teams would rather play another reaper or scrapper though, but some teams would still run an ele IMHO.
Ele will be meta 100%
ESL players can’t stack 2 revs for ESL rules, so druid will be in the core team.
I hear you can stack 1 class 2 times.
But even if you can’t stack 2 revs, I think more teams will choose thief over druid. -.-°
You druids are a mess to balance. You guys deal a ton of single target damage because of your pet, while using bunker-bruiser amulet.
What’s the real solution?
nerf dps-pets (bristle and smokescale) and buff druid…. it’s really simple.
I like the proposed changes, especially activating it before it’s full. This allows decent options to switch in and out quickly for stealth/superspeed, condiremoval or a quick burstheal etc.
They would probably have to make the CD of celestial avatar a bit higher, like 15 seconds. but I think the added versatility would make up for that.
Also, I don’t think you gain AF by taking dmg…
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
Nope – Ele is pretty sick actually. Try this:
By far highest support (boons, condi-removal, auras, healing numbers) and unkillable in a 1v1.
I saw this build from tons of competetive players and smaller tournaments and I thought it would suck as well, but it’s insane. Yes, you have no DMG, but in all other aspects, it’s pretty much godlike.
Also, reapers won’t do anything to this build.
*Edit: It’s actually that good, that I’ve seen quite a few ESL-players that normally don’t play Ele practice it, likely for the upcoming season finale. Not gonna drop names though, since they helped me with the build and I don’t wanna spoil any teams strategies.
Yay, time to continue being the support b****. Exactly how I wanted to play my elementalist.
I think it’s pretty fun to play and very likely the hardest to play build in the current meta. But it’s true, I’ve tried tons of different Ele builds; some of them work, but they are just slightly weaker scrappers, this build actually has a clear role and place in the meta IMHO.
Nope – Ele is pretty sick actually. Try this:
By far highest support (boons, condi-removal, auras, healing numbers) and unkillable in a 1v1.
I saw this build from tons of competetive players and smaller tournaments and I thought it would suck as well, but it’s insane. Yes, you have no DMG, but in all other aspects, it’s pretty much godlike.
Also, reapers won’t do anything to this build.
*Edit: It’s actually that good, that I’ve seen quite a few ESL-players that normally don’t play Ele practice it, likely for the upcoming season finale.
Not gonna happen, just a tryhard attempt to keep elementalist alive, you should find some build to dont get easily rekt, but thats all.
That build sounds pretty exciting btw
Heavily doubt it, regarding the fact that I’ve seen players that normally don’t play ele at all practicing the build. I’ve also seen it in smaller US-tournaments.
Yes, it certainly has sth. to do with the fact that they can’t use 2 engi’s, 2 revs and 1 reaper (no class-stacking in ESL), so the build probably isn’t Top-3, but it’s IMHO pretty close to it in the right composition.
But if you don’t believe me, w8 until the season finale where every team is gonna run one of these eles, guaranteed. :P
*Edit: Here’s what the teams will look like btw:
1x Scrapper (paladin, hoelbrak)
1x Reaper (merc, nightmare)
1x Tempest (cleric, soldier)
2x Rev (marauder/zerker, hoelbrak/strength/scrapper) / maybe 1 Thief instead 2nd rev.I’m open to take bets btw. :P
That was my same guess but took druid over rev
There will be some Druids, but It’s IMHO not that good. Druid sucks in teamfights and if you take “Search and Rescue”, you are slightly better in teamfights, but worse in 1v1’s, in which druid already has a problem against reapers and scrappers. Also, because of the low stability-uptime, the druid isn’t even that good of a rezzer even if he takes Search and Rescue (be it the trait or the shout itself, or both).
Also, the 2 revs are very much needed for dps.
*Edit: I’ve spent countless hours testing out stuff, theorycrafting about the possible meta and builds and talking to good players, and the comp above seems the best so far.
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
Nope – Ele is pretty sick actually. Try this:
By far highest support (boons, condi-removal, auras, healing numbers) and unkillable in a 1v1.
I saw this build from tons of competetive players and smaller tournaments and I thought it would suck as well, but it’s insane. Yes, you have no DMG, but in all other aspects, it’s pretty much godlike.
Also, reapers won’t do anything to this build.
*Edit: It’s actually that good, that I’ve seen quite a few ESL-players that normally don’t play Ele practice it, likely for the upcoming season finale.
Not gonna happen, just a tryhard attempt to keep elementalist alive, you should find some build to dont get easily rekt, but thats all.
That build sounds pretty exciting btw
Heavily doubt it, regarding the fact that I’ve seen players that normally don’t play ele at all practicing the build. I’ve also seen it in smaller US-tournaments.
Yes, it certainly has sth. to do with the fact that they can’t use 2 engi’s, 2 revs and 1 reaper (no class-stacking in ESL), so the build probably isn’t Top-3, but it’s IMHO pretty close to it in the right composition.
But if you don’t believe me, w8 until the season finale where every team is gonna run one of these eles, guaranteed. :P
*Edit: Here’s what the ideal team will look like btw: (It will only differ cuz of personal preference of the players. Like ROM will play a Druid or Toker a Thief – there’s some wiggle-room, but this will likely be the best comp.)
1x Scrapper (paladin, hoelbrak)
1x Reaper (merc, nightmare)
1x Tempest (cleric, soldier)
2x Rev (marauder/zerker, hoelbrak/strength/scrapper)
I’m open to take bets btw. :P
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
I currently think your build is pretty viable and have to revise my previous statement. I’m currentl running it with 5 shouts though, If there’s too much CC, I take “Eye of the Storm”, otherwhise, “Aftershock”. Also, more often than not I go for Cleansing Water over aura-share, but it heavily depends on the enemy team’s composition.
The Support is insane and it can hold a 1v1 against any build and even some 2v1’s. The DMG is more or less non-existant though (I’ve still won 1v1’s against reaper, thief and rev’s though, but it took some time. At least you’l be able to hold the point pretty easily).
The healing, boons, condi-removal and auras you put out in teamfights more than make up for the lack of DPS in any composition that has some decent damage-dealers though.
That’s not a build..that’s a whole profession shafted into healingbot role by unexperienced devs that stall fight forever 1vs1 at very low MMR in ranked and unranked/hotjoin
The healing/condi removal whatever…everything is spent on builds that need none of it from you to start with, that’t to say you’re supporting already strong builds that gives you an illusion of utility.
Having such a build in a teamcomp that lack strong teamfight builds won’t suddenly change the tides of battle…basically you’re just nice to have but never a necessity
Support should be a choice..not the entire point of your profession, you can’t force holy trinity on us when you marketed the game as “play the game the way you want” or “no more need for monks”
So now that they realize that their original idea was BS they try to force these “semi roles” by nerfing everything except support…just change the name from elementalist to Healementalist..some people seems to be happy to play healbot I kill nothing but heal a lot
Well, that’s your opinion, I personally like the fact that not every build has to be good at everything and that strong support is actually viable because of the removal of some of the strongest revive-bots.
I also think the skills you use to support require good positioning and timing (wash the pain away, reflects/absorbs, rebound and the overloads). Yes, they are often AoE, but it’s IMHO way less spammy than what we saw from a shoutwar for example.
So if the build requires skill, can be countered and is fun to play, I really don’t have a problem with that. Regardless if it deals damage or not.
I mean, I’ve played a Infuser Monk in GW1 for years, dealt close to 0 DMG, but it was a crucial and very hard to play role in the game.
GW2 doesn’t have the holy trinity, but if there are some builds that come somewhat closer to what a healer was in GW1, then I really don’t have a problem with that.
Nope – Ele is pretty sick actually. Try this:
By far highest support (boons, condi-removal, auras, healing numbers) and unkillable in a 1v1.
I saw this build from tons of competetive players and smaller tournaments and I thought it would suck as well, but it’s insane. Yes, you have no DMG, but in all other aspects, it’s pretty much godlike.
Also, reapers won’t do anything to this build.
*Edit: It’s actually that good, that I’ve seen quite a few ESL-players that normally don’t play Ele practice it, likely for the upcoming season finale. Not gonna drop names though, since they helped me with the build and I don’t wanna spoil any teams strategies.
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
I currently think your build is pretty viable and have to revise my previous statement. I’m currentl running it with 5 shouts though, If there’s too much CC, I take “Eye of the Storm”, otherwhise, “Aftershock”. Also, more often than not I go for Cleansing Water over aura-share, but it heavily depends on the enemy team’s composition.
The Support is insane and it can hold a 1v1 against any build and even some 2v1’s. The DMG is more or less non-existant though (I’ve still won 1v1’s against reaper, thief and rev’s though, but it took some time. At least you’l be able to hold the point pretty easily).
The healing, boons, condi-removal and auras you put out in teamfights more than make up for the lack of DPS in any composition that has some decent damage-dealers though.
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
This build is one I’ve seen a lot in competetive play and after asking some ESL-players about their ele builds:
It’s supposed to be pure bunker/support, the dmg is really low, but it can hold against any build in a 1v1 and survive quite a while against 2 players if they aren’t both high-dps.
I personally prefer going offhand dagger when it’s not completely necessary or beneficial to go focus (either tons of physical burst or projectiles).
Might be the smartest way to go currently on ele, cuz in terms of DPS, I don’t really kill the more sustainy specs like druid or engi in a 1v1 anyways and against the more offensive oriented builds like rev/reaper/thief, I think I have good chances with this build as well.
If you really want to focus on teamfights, you can also go for aura-share of course and against certain comps, stoneheart can be better than DS, but the build above is probably the most well-rounded for what it needs to do.
Is it so difficult move the pet damage to ranger and use f2 for utility only?
It really isn’t – and it would actually give the ranger some choices which pet they wanna pick. Right now, you can either pick bristle and smokescale, or sth. bad.
Just make Sword AA useful and not this weird thing it is now (just a normal AA-chain plz, like anyone else), give Staff and GS a bit more dps on AA and give Shortbow an overhaul, like guaranteed bleed on AA.
Then just tone down dmg of smoke and bristle by at least 20% and voilà!
No, blinding ashes is complained about because it is frustrating to play against.
This is basically what i said. Frustrating can still mean its balanced.
I think a trait where timing actually matters is better though; we really don’t need more passive no-skill traits. Maybe sth. like AoE blind a 240 radius around you after weapon-swap with 9s CD? I think the fact that you could actually time it would more than make up for the higher CD.
reaper can beat it and maybe scrapper has a chance as well.
Since they got 3 months till the next update i want to gather all your suggestions. Try to discribe them in detail and point out why you think this would be good for the class. Please no OP suggestions and constructive critisism.
Things I suggest:
Weapons:
Shortbow:
-Improve the AA, so it will apply bleed on baseline regardless of direction and additional stacks when flanking
-Change poison volley to a Skillshot based Attack similar to the reflecting shot of DH, just it applies 3 stacks of poison when travelling through enemies and at the end it produces a poison field
-for the third skill grant quickness if you are evading an attack and apply swiftness on baseline.
-Crippling shot change->Wounding Shot: shoot an arrow into your target wich applies 1 stack of torment per second and your pet deals additional dmg as long as active
-Concussive Shot: apply confusion on hit and additional stacks when flanking, daze and stun as default and you knock enemies down which are already disabledSword:
-AA just like a normal sword Autochain similar to Warrior, effects as default but change cripple with bleed
-Hornet Sting: Remove the first part of this skill to skill number 3, give it a bigger evade distance and leave behind a weakening and dmg trail of spikes which functions as a poison field.
-Monarchs leap: Merge it with Serpents Strike to number 2, jumpm into battle criplling enemies and after that you can evade and apply 3 stacks of poison and additional weakness if the enemie already has a poison stack.Axe:
-Improve aftercast similar how it was done with axe throw on warr
-Winters bite Baseline AoE
-Splitblade: Change this skill to a single target nuke->Savage Axe: A spinning axe hitting a target for 5 times, this skill is solo dmg based and has no bleed effect, improve dmg respectivelyDagger:
-Crippling talon: Add a shadowstep that you port to your target
-Stalkers strike: Jump over the target while evading and applying poison -> like thief skillI thought about these changes because it provides better Conditioning for Sb and better usability in skirmishing. Sword has better controlability and is more a condition based weapon. Axe is solo pure dmg, because it will simplify the weapon choice and playstyle. Dagger changes should give now better mobility and impact.
This were solo my weapon suggestions i got some more for utilities and traits.
What do you want for the next update balance patch?
Pretty cool ideas, I’d welcome all of them and I think they’d work well balance-wise.
I’d add:
- Bristle F2 and smokescale smoke assault dmg reduced by 20%
- Staff AA dmg buff by 10%
→ makes you less reliant on the pet dps and will maybe actually give ppl the option to not run both bristle and smokescale…..
I feel like the 2 condi power dmg amus don’t work too well on staff, for two main reasons:
- Staff doesn’t have too much condi-dmg.
- other than in 1v1’s, you can’t really use sigils (geomancy+doom) as effective to boost your condi-dps, since geomancy requires you to be melee, which is sth. you probably rather want to avoid in teamfights.
Now for menders or paladin:
- I feel like menders can work with stoneheart and soldier runes, but I kinda prefer it with melandru runes, for the following reasons:
- Reapers won’t be able to set up Shroud 5 with the fear (even with nightmares runes, which is way many reapers run it); if you spam dodge, you’ll be able to dodge before Shroud kittens.
- Chill-duration gets reduced quite a bit with melandru+geomancer’s training.
- The added toughness helps against power-dmg, which is definitely the biggest weakness of the build.
Overall, I still prefer pala amu + monk runes though; you’ll still have amazing teamsupport and good teams won’t be able to train you down with 1-2 good rev’s/engi’s/thief’s in a teamfights.
dps is too low and you’re too easy to be trained down when using menders without stoneheart. Also, you loose tons of sustain/support when using focus. So yes, focus helps against burst so you can use menders moer comfortably, but menders is way less useful when using focus. So I think there’s almost no way around stoneheart when going for menders.
It can work to a certain degree, but it’s at best mid-tier.
I’ve had the best success when running menders with staff and stoneheart, cleansing water and aquamancers training (I personally prefer it over cleansing wave on pretty much every build). I also prefer renewal sigil over hydromancy. Otherwise it’s the same.