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Firebrand Demo Weekend Feedback

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

Feedback? Okay…

If FB is supposed to be our support elite spec, we have no support elite spec.

Tomes are a joke with those cooldowns. Why is it that this cooldown trend is in place? Where ToJ is shorter than ToR is shorter than ToC? They all do vastly different things. All the tomes should simply be 30 sec when traited. Mantras should have 600 radius just like shield #4. ToR needs WAAAAYYY better scaling. Going from a 1200 to a 1600 heal on ToR 4 with full clerics is laughable. (I approximated those numbers) lol

That’s my 5 cents.

New Mantra Idea...

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

The idea is precisely due to the fact that RF is the preferred elite in all game modes. It allows such little diversity. The way FB in particular is designed, RF is all but NECESSARY.

As far as utilities not being tied to profession mechanics. Weaver is getting Unravel, which is also interacts directly with their profession mechanics.

I do agree with everything else you said though, and thanks for the feedback.. I just wish mantras weren’t dead on arrival.

- Sele

New Mantra Idea...

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

Okay I think we generally all agree mantras suck. So my first idea is to just wrap Mantra of Flame and Truth into a singular Mantra to make it a little more appealing.

This frees up a utility for a new Mantra:

“Mantra of ______”: I suck at writing fancy descriptions, so I’ll just explain what it would do.

Expending a charge will reduce cooldowns on all tomes by 10sec, or if you’re in a Tome, instantly add 2 pages to the tome count (without exceeding max pages of course). Final charge reduces recharge by 15 and adds 3 pages.

This way the long cooldowns are a little less terrible. And for those staying in a tome, this Mantra will allow you to make the most out of it.

I don’t know, it can be tweaked. I’m just trying to find a way to save mantras at this point…..and something like this would be unique…

- Sele

Post your firebrand build

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Selendile.9106

Well, let me amend that: all mantras except the burn mantra for PvE condi builds will be useless.

- Sele

I don’t even know that the burn mantra will be use for PvE. From what I recall it was a horribly inefficient way to apply burn.

Sadly, this is a fair point.

Post your firebrand build

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

Rather interesting see so different builds and different weapon sets. Might be so that FB actually allows for more than one new way of playing.

Yeah i think so too… with Firebrand you are no longer forced to use Meditations (THANK GOD). Shouts work very good with firebrnad, Consecrations are a viable option too, with just a LITTLE tweaking Mantras are in a very good spot aswell, and if you want you still can use that old boring meditations.

what i want to say is that you will have much more build and utility diversity.

True, except tomes all but REQUIRE you to take Renewed Focus in their current form. So that’s at least 1 meditation on everyone’s skill bar.

Until mantras are either pbAoE (which I wouldn’t prefer) or have a range/angle similar to shield #4 (which I WOULD prefer), mantras will be useless. Well, let me amend that: all mantras except the burn mantra for PvE condi builds will be useless.

- Sele

Post your firebrand build

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

Full minstrel gear.

Mace+Shield / Staff.

Honor: 1 – 2 – 1.
Virtues: 2 – 2 – 2 (or 3; the VoC one; pretty sure that’s 3).
Firebrand: 3 – 3 – 3.

Sigils of Concentration and Renewal. Runes of Leadership.

Utilities: Shout Heal, SyG, HtL, and the final utility and elite are up for grabs still. Gotta play test.

I just like playing a guardian who, you know, GUARDS and supports. All my other 6 characters are damage dealers, and frankly, I’m bored of the same rotations…

- Sele

Mace ....

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

My big suggestion for mace?

Third hit of the AA taunts. Or maybe the mace symbol pulse taunts. It’s just laughable how with the introduction of taunt, guards got NONE. And we’re guardians….makes no sense.

- Sele

Firebrand: Great Potential

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

They are the worst example of bad resources system

  1. The virtues/tomes have a high cd for their reward
  2. The skills rely on pages, which don’t regenerate
  3. The tome skill themselves also have a cd

You have to pay three times a price for a reward.
That’s why many consider revenant’s system as bad, because you have to pay energy and cd for a skill, firebrand even three times a price.

Actually FB has 4:

Huge Tome cd
Tome casting times
Tome skill casting times and cd
Pages

(5 if you divide tome skills cd and casting times)

:)

It’s even better than I thought! On top of a small area of effect.

Yea that 240 taunt is clearly a winner

And the real kicker? They aren’t even worth it. ToR has kittenty healing power scaling and that taunt on ToC is just LMAO. Can anyone tell me why guardian, of all classes, doesn’t have more taunts? Geez, Mace AA 3rd strike should have a taunt. Or Mace symbol should pulse taunt enemies. SOMETHING.

- Sele

Firebrand: Great Potential

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Selendile.9106

I think f1 and f3 tomes are fine. They are very impactful and the big cds make sense because of this. Additionally, these tomes have ways to be refreshed beyond using renewed focus. you can get f1 back by using radiance and you can get f3 back by using valor. The only outlier is f2 tome that doesn’t feel strong enough to be worth the cd and resource limitation. The healing is too low and unlike f1 and f3 (killing an enemy and rezzing an ally), does not have an alternative to get refreshed. It might make sense to place a minor in the honor or virtues line that refreshes f2 on core guardian.

I sorta agree on the usefulness of F1 and F3. F2 needs to scale better with healing power or it’s utterly useless.

I disagree on the cooldowns. NO reason for 90s. Frankly, all 3 tomes should have a 20 sec cooldown when traited in Virtues, 25s otherwise. All three tomes fulfill wildly different roles, no reason to have such different cooldowns. This is something I never understood with base guardian as well….

I’m just tired of HAVING to use Renewed Focus. And if tomes are implemented as is, ALL firebrands will need it. It’ll be pretty much mandatory.

Just my 2 cents.

Tome idea/suggestion

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Selendile.9106

Actually i would be delighted if cooldowns would be calculated trough this formula..

Cooldown = max coolldown * pages left/ max pages

Should be ‘pages used’ rather than ‘pages left’. The way you have it, it would benefit the most to use all but one page, then exit the tome for an enormous cd reduction.

Unfortunately this needs to be altered slightly, as that equation would allow one to go in and out of tomes without cooldown if you use no pages, thus endlessly proccing the virtue trait line boon-on-virtue traits. There would simply need to be a base cooldown of 10sec added to that, for example.

Viper build for fractals?

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Selendile.9106

Frankly, it may not be meta, but with the build suggested above (thanks in large part to Chilling Darkness), and with Viper/Rabid gear….I simply choose Weakening Shroud instead of Lingering Curse, and I can put up some serious damage wielding almost exclusively my greatsword. You’d be surprised how much blind/chill you can pump out. And constantly going into and out of shroud to use skills and proccing Weakening Shroud makes for a fun build. Oh, and yeah, I use the new Plaguelands elite.

Once again, I know it’s not meta, but frankly I’ve never really cared. This build carries me through T4 fractals with literally no problem.

- Sele

Gear for your Renegade?

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Selendile.9106

Full vipers on armor/weapons/back, with some dire thrown in on the accessories/amulet/rings for survivability. Torment runes, and bursting/malice sigils.

Wondering now if torment sigil is better than bursting sigil…..hmmmm…..

(edited by Selendile.9106)

Remove Energy cost from Renegade F-Skills

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Selendile.9106

I’d rather see an overall buff where Revenant starts combat with 100% energy rather than with 50%, I mean energy is sort of like mana, in which game do you start a fight with half your mana and no potion, do thieves start with half initiative, besides energy grows so slowly a player will never exceed 50% once in combat which also makes traits like Charged Mist rather useless, this trait should also grant a faster recharge rate for energy with eventually the drawback of having longer cooldown for utilities.

This x2000. It’s such a broken system. If you have more than 50 energy after the beginning of the fight, it literally means you’re standing there auto attacking. In other words, you’re not doing anything. Absolutely no reason not to start at 100%.

- Sele

[Feedback]Path of Fire Elite Specialization Preview - August 18-20

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

Renegade:

Adjust energy cost, sheesh. As it stands now, the F skills aren’t even worth considering to use because they are a huge drain on energy, essentially forcing you to swap legends in order to maintain damage. Not only that, but their impact is minimal to boot. I would also like to see some synergy between Renegade and Corruption trait lines. Basic example would be to make Icerazor chill rather than cripple. Renegade ‘wells’ should spawn with stability if you insist on making them killable. Short bow is fine once you fix some numbers and paths.

Firebrand:

If this is our support build, I want to cry. Having tomes with a cast time defeats their entire purpose. Example: say you’re in WvW and need to pop a projectile reflect…..if you wanted to do this as FB, you’d need to activate ToC…cast time…then cast the correct chapter….cast time. Congrats, your party is dead. Too heavy on cast times as it stands. Tomes should be instant. Cooldowns on tomes should be reduced across the board, healing power scaling on ToR should be much higher, and some system that reduces tome cooldown based on the number of remaining pages when stowed should be put in. Last note, if you WANT to keep tome cast time….we should have a minor trait that grants party-wide barrier and stability when activating a tome. This way our party stands a chance while we frickin channel a tome. MANTRAS ARE UNUSEABLE! Give them the same radius and angle as shield #4 or no one will want to use them.

Mirage:

You know what a perfect elite is? One that has a clear focus, but allows some interesting build ideas. Reaper was perfect in this regard. Clearly a power build, but a viable condi build came out of it too. Mirage, currently, is not like this. It would be nice to see some power build potential. Also, phantasms should ambush too. Easily can institute a short daze on them to balance it.

Weaver:

By now I was sick of condi builds. Please make sword at least as strong as dagger. I mean, you have to get closer after all….as far as attuning…get rid of unravel and add a new stance. Instead, make it so attuning to an element only kicks off CD on the other 3 elements, this way you can always double tap an attunement to access whatever off hand abilities you need. This is by far the best idea. Barrier base values need to be higher. I’d like a trait that allows barrier strength to scale with power for weaver, but I know that’s a bit of a stretch…

General: barriers need to degenerate slower. It’s much too fast.

(edited by Selendile.9106)

FireBrand, The Guardians success and failings

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

I mean….this is a minor point but….

Why don’t we have the big floating book in front of us when we have a tome active, like back when tome was our elite? Geez, it looks so stupid standing in combat weaponless.

Also, yes, as it stands I have no intention of using any mantras. They are terrible. And tomes have such high cooldown, that you’re pretty much forced to take virtues and RF if you want even a CHANCE at being decent support.

Fractal gearing

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Selendile.9106

I farm T4 fractals with…

Honor/Valor/Virtues, full minstrel, leadership runes, mace+shield and staff.

Definitely not fractal meta, and I don’t care. Not only have I never been booted, my party usually breezes through. Note: if a Druid is present, i do switch to a different character. Lol

- Sele

Oh yeah? That does sound like my cup of tea. As I said at the beginning I do love support! I definitely see the benefits of the Zerker gear (Dead things don’t hurt you) but the thought of being the unbreakable object that protects the group calls to me!

Mind letting me know what Utilities you generally run with? Might start off trying the Zerker thing (Blowing stuff up is fun for sure) but hearing that you play the support build I play with friends (Who are pretty casual so the healing is good for them, not to mention aegis) gives me hope for a guarding guardian!

I love how you can switch playstyles so easily in this game! I was mostly worried that support was seen as a “leech” of sorts in Fractals. Though watching WoodenPotatoes’ healing aura-tempest in Fractal 100 gave me hope for my guardian (And I love my guardian, don’t want to switch)

Thanks everyone for the input!

Full minstrel, leadership (or durability runes, if it’s the best you can do), sigil of concentration and renewal. Staff and Mace+Shield.

Virtues: 2, 2, 2.
Honor: 1, 1, 2. (Despite using shouts, I personally like writs of persistence).
Valor: 2, 2 (sometimes 1), 2.

Of course, I change traits when the situation calls for it. Superior Aria is sometimes an unavoidably better choice than writs of persistence, for example. I just happen to prefer the play style of WoP.

Abilities: healing shout, smite condition, merciful intervention (or stand your ground), hold the line. Elite: renewed focus.

Once again, this isn’t meta (in fact, it looks like a WvW build). But you’ll be kitten near unkillable and this build pretty much Maxs out your support potential.

- Sele

(edited by Selendile.9106)

Fractal gearing

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

I farm T4 fractals with…

Honor/Valor/Virtues, full minstrel, leadership runes, mace+shield and staff.

Definitely not fractal meta, and I don’t care. Not only have I never been booted, my party usually breezes through. Note: if a Druid is present, i do switch to a different character. Lol

- Sele

(edited by Selendile.9106)

Why are we doing this?

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

I think all the elite specs can use a bit of polish. This is to be expected. On the list of “elite specs that need the most work”, I don’t think Mirage is in the top 3. I’d say Renegade, FB, and maybe Weaver are the most.

Mirage Power Build, anyone?

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Selendile.9106

I did. It was mostly a resounding meh for small & mid scale WvW encounters. And completely useless for large scale encounters, whether that be as someone eating at the tail or someone in the zerg.

Chrono offers more independence while simultaneously being less selfish than Mirage.

Mirage was really good at surviving, but actually doing lethal damage wasn’t easy while running power.

Playing Mirage as condi was quite a bit better in small scale, but still beneath Chrono imo.

Try any sPvP as power or condi mirage? If so, thoughts?

Remove Energy cost from Renegade F-Skills

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

It’s not the energy that’s the problem. It’s the fact that there is no conceivable reason to USE them over other things. Effective use of our energy is the core mechanic of our class, and as it is now, there is no reason to waste energy on these skills when we get more bang from our buck on other abilities.

The skill is already balanced due to the cooldown. Trim the energy cost slightly and make the abilities more appealing to use. That’s all they need.

Mirage Power Build, anyone?

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Selendile.9106

So, did anyone test out a S+S mirage power build this past weekend? If so, thoughts? Any viability?

The Staff Nerf

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Selendile.9106

And worse? The rest of the darn skills are 1200 range except for the auto attack. Anet can’t make up their minds on the staff’s role…

Remove energy cost from weapon skills

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

call me whatever you like,tell me I don’t know how to rev but…. lol, I never lack energy and you do

I’m not going to call you anything, because that would be mean :P. What spec do you play? Because as a PvE Mallyx build, I am CONSTANTLY out. Without even using the elite skill.

Frankly, for what it does, Pain Absorption shouldn’t have such a steep energy cost. AT ALL. Using it ONCE almost completely kills my dps. lol

I talk pvp wise or WvW I dont pve…sage amulet/berserker rune Retrib/invo/coruption, hammer- mace/sword
yea pain absorption cost alot it’s a freakin break stun,if you could do it like 4-5 times it would be stupid and pretty sure anet doesn’t want us to sit in only 1 legend, the point is to create a sinergy between your 2 legends

but as it stands now, good luck having the energy to use it when you need it even once. unless you sit on your energy, which makes you a burden on your party anyway because you’re more-or-less just auto attacking at that point.

frankly, a little off topic, but no other class has these kinds of drawbacks. no other class has to sacrifice damage for the use of support abilities. but meh, maybe that’s just me.

Remove energy cost from weapon skills

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Selendile.9106

call me whatever you like,tell me I don’t know how to rev but…. lol, I never lack energy and you do

I’m not going to call you anything, because that would be mean :P. What spec do you play? Because as a PvE Mallyx build, I am CONSTANTLY out. Without even using the elite skill.

Frankly, for what it does, Pain Absorption shouldn’t have such a steep energy cost. AT ALL. Using it ONCE almost completely kills my dps. lol

I talk pvp wise or WvW I dont pve…sage amulet/berserker rune Retrib/invo/coruption, hammer- mace/sword
yea pain absorption cost alot it’s a freakin break stun,if you could do it like 4-5 times it would be stupid and pretty sure anet doesn’t want us to sit in only 1 legend, the point is to create a sinergy between your 2 legends

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT .. we are saying that we should be able to choose when to switch not have to do it on CD just for energy.

This. Swapping legends isn’t something we do for utilities when the need arises, we have to do it to maintain consistent damage.

Firebrand ascended armor

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

I’d only have the gold to create 1 set, so I want it to be the right one. I just know I want it to be a burning build. Not power oriented (GS, or something). Thinking of Scepter/Focus & Axe/Torch. Would be nice if I could support a bit tho. Hard to decide what to craft.

For burning builds, go dire because Expertise won’t do you much good.
You can easily get high additional Burning duration without fancy shmance HoT stats by using: Sigil of Smoldering (20%), Runes of Balthazar (45% with all 6 runes), Radiant Fire trait via Radiance (+20%). That’s a total of +85% burning duration. With foods/utils, you can get an additional +8.66% condition duration (100 expertise/ 70 condi damage food & Furious Tuning Crystal which yields 30 expertise from 1000 precision).

Sure you can cap your duration with a bit of trailblazers, but eh.

Getting Dire gear is easy. Go on the tp and search for exotic lvl 80 trinkets with condi, tough, and vit. You’ll find trinkets like “Fang of Tequatl” which have dire stats. You can also do Crucible of Eternity and earn Dire armor/weapons that way.

During the beta weekend I was fooling around with Support/Heal guard for small scale WvW. Went pretty well if you know which buttons to press and when. Boon duration (Minstrel’s) is fine, but with all the boon corrupt coming via Path of Fire, I’m most likely going to go Nomad’s. Could also go Apothecary/Settler’s if you wanna mix condi and healing.

My guard (and ultimately FB) is full minstrel/leadership runes support. Minus the scourge boon corruption stuff, how’d you fair as full support? Were tome cast times ever an issue? That’s my biggest fear.

Remove energy cost from weapon skills

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

call me whatever you like,tell me I don’t know how to rev but…. lol, I never lack energy and you do

I’m not going to call you anything, because that would be mean :P. What spec do you play? Because as a PvE Mallyx build, I am CONSTANTLY out. Without even using the elite skill.

Frankly, for what it does, Pain Absorption shouldn’t have such a steep energy cost. AT ALL. Using it ONCE almost completely kills my dps. lol

Remove energy cost from weapon skills

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

Should just be a mechanic where your legends are separate F keys. Activating a legend
starts the CD as usual…..but once it’s finished you can press the same legend’s F key to instantly restore 50 energy, restarting the CD. This way nothing changes, but you can sit in one legend without sacrificing DPS.

EDIT: To be clear, this is no different from switching legends for the 50 energy, just minus the actual “switching legends” part. Nothing would even need to be re-balanced.

EDIT 2: it even allows rev to have kind of an “oh kitten” thing where, for example, you may be in Mallyx and NEED a quick party-wide resistance buff……so you can quickly hit Mallyx F key and have the energy to do it, even if you’re already in Mallyx.

(edited by Selendile.9106)

Firebrand ascended armor

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

I’d seriously consider waiting for the new stat combos. But if not, maybe consider Seraph, just to utilize everything a FB can bring to the table. It’ll also shake up the norm a bit, because Viper is just so played to death. lol

A Possible Solution for Most

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

Barrier scaling with healing power is utterly ridiculous. What’s the point of even giving it to Weaver if they planned to scale it this way?

Firebrand - Group barrier?

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

This is one of the problems with FB. It can’t play reactionary. All your “oh kitten” abilities are gated behind huge cast times. Look at ToC’s projectile reflect. Good luck having that ready when you actually need it. It’s pretty much a wasted ability. Seems to be a trend with several elites in PoF. Same applies for weaver with having to rotate elements twice to get off hand skills they need. At least they get Unravel. Frankly my #1 biggest problem with FB in its current form is tome cast times. That would HELP, not fix. HELP. Combine that with mantras having similar range as Shield #4, and we’re in business. lol

Firebrand - Group barrier?

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

Pretty sure group barriers are Scourge’s thing.

And weaver. Why not guard?

Because the entire point of Scourge as a support (which according to devs it’s supposed to be) is to give group barriers.

Holosmith and Weaver’s barriers are personal barriers not group barriers.

Giving Firebrand group barriers would make scourge completely pointless as a support.

Frankly, I’m not convinced Scourge support is going to really be a thing anyway.

Firebrand - Group barrier?

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

So the solution is to revamp the support aspect of FB to focus more on damage mitigation through barriers and protection. There is plenty of synergy there, too. You can have a trait like “When a barrier you apply breaks, the player gains protection” or kitten like that. Wording is obviously bad, but you get the point. If our healing won’t be made more competitive, and remain locked behind long cast times/cooldowns, we need to be able to compensate through damage mitigation. That’s the way to provide focus to our support capabilities.

Firebrand - Group barrier?

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

Pretty sure group barriers are Scourge’s thing.

And weaver. Why not guard?

Firebrand - Group barrier?

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Selendile.9106

It seems like a mechanic that would be utilized by guardians, since barriers…….ya know……..guard. Lol

Firebrand - Group barrier?

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Selendile.9106

Agreed, actually. Just trying to come up with solutions that don’t involve tots revamps, ya know?

I think FB Should be capable of generating barriers. It makes up for the sub-par healing. Damage mitigation.

Firebrand - Group barrier?

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

Quick idea to help Firebrand in a support setting:

New Grandmaster MajorTrait, or maybe even a minor trait:

“Activating a tome grants barrier and stability to all allies within 600 yard radius”.

The mentality is FB healing won’t be competitive against druids, it seems. So, perhaps adding in more group damage mitigation would compensate this.

Thoughts?

EDIT: can also wrap up another idea with this. Can make burn damage scale with healing power rather than condi damage. This way support guards will have passable burn damage and barriers (which scale with healing power already). This idea is “meh”, but I think the barrier idea is pretty good.

- Sele

(edited by Selendile.9106)

Firebrand feels indredibly clunky

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

Solution?

Reduced cast time base, replace that trait with.

“You gain a barrier and stability whenever you activate a tome”.

Or, kitten it, make that buff AoE. 600 range around the guard. This way, even full support guards (minstrels/leadership) have a reason to at least swap into the burn tome: pop it, drop tome #5 and #3 if you want to do some defiance damage (pve), then drop out. Team barrier.

Fixed.

- Sele

(edited by Selendile.9106)