If you want to carry the orb, change your build. I have seen good thieves do it.
Its not only thieves, engineers, mesmers and necros also have those problems, but their builds ussualy include more basic stats advantage(more hp/armor) still allowing them to give it a try even if not having any movement boosts ur ones they have beeing unavailable(mesmers and thieves).
Problem is allrady very effective bunker builds are even better at this, while less populated glass cannon builds, arent as effective making them even less popular.
I never said bunkers aren’t better orb runners than glass canons (which is kinda obvious). It was just an answer to this:
“ele glass cannon can just rtl + mist form away
thief glass cannon can shadow refuge
mesmer is op enough anyway”
[Edit] Correcting my bad grammar.
Thief cannot stealth/shadowstep, 40% lowered leaps and movespeed. This gives thief only 1 build which is not rly viable in Tpvp a way to carry orb. Mesmer also, no teleports,portal/invisility. This greatly limits viability.
If everyone had equal ammount of hp/armor when carrying orb, it would still be diffrent classes, but just makes less uncapable, or classes too good at it while changing nuthing how class works.
Mesmers are actualy more OP then you imagine, but since they are forced to use portal/illiusion of life in their utility slots you never see full mesmer capabilitys.
However since portal and IoL brings so much team gain, they are actualy forced to use them. The true strenght of mesmers is somewhat still hidden and it wont be shown unless some 1v1 competitions start.
Oh boy, another l2p issue. If you can’t immobilize, cripple, stun, freeze, knockdown (or whatever you can use to keep them in one place) and one-shot them it is not because something is OP. It is because you and your team doesn’t know how to play and/or watch the orb.
At the moment as it stands bunker builds apart from holding points are more effective carrying the orb, while other builds(glass cannon) arent as good at this meta while also lose effectivness carrying orb since they can be instagibbed(thief cant stealth/shadowstep).
Hello . After quite some games in new map, and reading multiple discussions about it, i found an idea which sounded realy good to my fellow mates, so i would like to discuss about it here.
Orb Runner’s buff. Now it slows movespeed by 40%. What if it gave everyone same base health and armor.
I know it sounds silly but it has very reasonable reasons. Running as a glass cannon is impossible, Your low base health and armor does not let you take any punishment while a full bunker can run taking a beating from 2 people quite easy.
You would say why would glass cannon pick up orb in 1st place. Well, some classes dont have functional bunker builds, making glass cannon their only spec(thieves mostly).
That way bunkers ar way stronger stat wise. The only change to Orb carrying would be give default health and armor levels to orb carrier. So that bunkers arent as effective and some classes which dont have effective bunker builds could work.
Mesmers and thieves really do rule the roost in hot join but I wouldn’t judge the viability of any class purely in hot join. 2 hot join players are worth 1 tournament player. 2 tournament players will completely demolish a glass cannon who is in the wrong place at the wrong time. As a thief I can get 300+ points every game in hot join because I can nuke from the outside of a skirmish unmolested. In tournaments I have to be super careful with my positioning as one wrong move and I’m a dead man. Same applies to a mesmer. They’re often the first target in a skirmish.
Thieves main strenght about it beeing OP is its viability which changes depending on how experianced and cooperating with each other, players are.
In Hotjoin thieves mesmers and eles, wont die at all if played well, noone to focus fire, allert people of thief coming or say Ele blew mist form, come help me mr. thief.
The more organized the team the weaker, thieves and mesmers get. Also eles are easier to kill at highter level but even when organised elementalists are harder to counter and still brings more to a team level.
i guess that is what seperates great players from regulars.
when i see a backstab thief 20 feet away from me and he drops shadow refuge i get excited. i know there is about to be a great battle. i know all i have to do is hit him once and he dies or he has to hit me once and i die.
never in my mind do i look at a thief and say he is op because i look at it from both angles which the devs do also.
insta gib thief= easy to kill if they mess up (u see that there is a pro and a con so ppl use them) they can kill ppl fast but they cant stomp. seems fair to me.
moa= 180 sec cooldown, it affects 1 person, its easily avoided, ppl get to doge 2 times in it for 4 seconds invuln plus they get to speed away at a super speed that nothing can catch, so basically it does nothing except waste a cooldown.
everything needs a pro and a con otherwise something is wrong.
all u ppl see is how something affects u instead of the full game.
It tottaly disables 1 person for basicly 10 seconds.(no you wont get the kill if target is fast reacting he will be out of range before you know it.
The good thing is how it counters transformation skills so well.
Plague Form >Moa>plague gone, now you are a chicken
Same with other transformations.
I Would agree. playing versus thief is less fun then playing against other classes and vice versa.
2day did few paid tourneys. 20-30% of game i had daggers equipted and bursting/finishing someone. 70% of game i had shortbow equipted running like mad not to get cought in real combat as i could not take it while my burst/utlitys are down.
Its no fun when i burst someone down, nor is it fun to wait for cooldowns and avoid fighting.
I would love if thief had build like d/d ele. But we wont. Not unless class is remade as we have no stability or protection uptime from traits or skills.
2x sigils of agony do not stack. Get something else(sigil of eath, sigil of coruptions or sth like that( or sigil of energy(50% endurance back on weapeon swap)) For sigils in Spvp i would advise Undread for WvW i would advise stacking bleed duration via difrent combos(afflicted/krait) i think.
Its basicly true. However, some things would get unbalanced. Lets say sigil that drains hp after swaping weapeon. If your phantasm misses then sigils effect should behone right ? Or sigil of intelligence. It will give 100% on next attack of weapeon swap. If you swap your phantasm should get it if i attacks first, not you. Basicly, you are right but it also would bring some disadvantages with certain sigils.
^ what he said. physical damage is based on power/prec/crit dmg while conditions are based on 1 stat Cond dmg and well maybe condition duration but amulets dont include that one. So it would be unbalanced
Its ability to instagib any glass cannon at melee range withouth cast time is what makes it insane. Thief burst takes 1-2 seconds + and uses more resources on longer cooldown.
Wait you think someone thats a glass cannon, should have survivability, because i can assure you that i do not when i run with 15k health as a mesmer myself. In fact i feel that running glass cannon with any class, is basically asking to get downed without hesitation.
Also i dont see how the thieves resources are on a longer cooldown, diversion is 45s, which is what is used to throw up quick stacks. Other than that its just a regular old MW every 15s, and lower end dps in between all of this
Even mesmers basic health with Berserkers is 21k i think… so stop talking BS about 15k hp… mesmer burst at melee range has 0 cast time=0 avoidance possible. This hard counters every single melee burst or melee based balanced spec. If i cant go in melee on melee class cuz i will die in 1 instant cast combo how is it normal ?
The mesmer burst is ok… im not against burst im against what it counters. It counters every single melee. Im afraid to melee good mesmers lately since a good macro/reaction w/e it is will global me. It doesnt apply to thief only. I have been basicly 1 shot balanced bunkerish guardian too. Mind wracks + fire proc + blured frenzy hit me in tottal for 15k on p/v/t gear…
Its ability to instagib any glass cannon at melee range withouth cast time is what makes it insane. Thief burst takes 1-2 seconds + and uses more resources on longer cooldown. But when you get to mesmer in melee range you get instant blown up.
How come you’re saying its 20% Based on my calculations i win around 5% damage below 90% and lose about same 5% while above 90%.
Dagger trianing pairs with your rune effect ( 5% more damage when under might)
You lose scholar bonus + exposed weakness + flanking strike ( trickery VI trait, another one you lose in your build) = 25 % flat damage + 8 % critical damage from runes.
With a 10-30-30 build you’re going to keep frequently 10-12 might stacks ( 350-420 power) , anyway you already lose 150 power from traits ( DA), so you effectively gain only 200-270 power ( around 5 % damage ).
So overall, where you backstab hits for 6 k, mine would hit for 7.8 k ( + 20 % damage + 8% critical damage).
It’s huge.
I would’t say i always got scholars bonus tbh also 300 attack equals almost 15% incrase.
Tests on heavy golem steady weapeons(not taken by me) 2004 power=91 damage on autoattack(no traits)
2304 power=105 damage
300 attack basicly equals 300 power so damage incrase is 15%.)
basicly the diffrence would be 8% critical damage. If you have above 90% hp you outdps me if not you dont.
Also my damage does not ask me to stand behind or have 90% + hp. Its has less variables to count in.
But in fact you have 200 more power ( this , remember, if you have 10 might stacks on you, so it won’t always happen, and surely not as soon as you start the fight, or rather when the thief is called out for help) than a standard glass cannon build.
200 more power= 10 % damage.
You lose 25% more damage from traits and runes + 8% crit damage .
it’s still a 15 % damage loss + 8crit damage loss, very noticable, especially when you have full bloodlust and numbers are pretty high.
Again, that build is more suited for 1vs1, and current thief meta role is simply different, especially as long as mesmers cover that role much more efficiently than us.
How come you’re saying its 20% Based on my calculations i win around 5% damage below 90% and lose about same 5% while above 90%.
Dagger trianing pairs with your rune effect ( 5% more damage when under might)
You lose scholar bonus + exposed weakness + flanking strike ( trickery VI trait, another one you lose in your build) = 25 % flat damage + 8 % critical damage from runes.
With a 10-30-30 build you’re going to keep frequently 10-12 might stacks ( 350-420 power) , anyway you already lose 150 power from traits ( DA), so you effectively gain only 200-270 power ( around 5 % damage ).
So overall, where you backstab hits for 6 k, mine would hit for 7.8 k ( + 20 % damage + 8% critical damage).
It’s huge.
I would’t say i always got scholars bonus tbh also 300 attack equals almost 15% incrase.
Tests on heavy golem steady weapeons(not taken by me) 2004 power=91 damage on autoattack(no traits)
2304 power=105 damage
300 attack basicly equals 300 power so damage incrase is 15%.)
basicly the diffrence would be 8% critical damage. If you have above 90% hp you outdps me if not you dont.
Also my damage does not ask me to stand behind or have 90% + hp. Its has less variables to count in.
I would rate that build nr1… as of possible thief builds(taking in mind a build itself, not how well it shows itself in meta).
Anyways it works great in some team setups.
And it hard counters bursty/heavy roaming setups.
And well, I like playing 15/30/0/0/25 for taking away boons. Ussualy 10 points into deadly arts wont give as much damage as removing protection or stability. Though 15/30/0/25/0 or 25/30/0/15/0 or 25/30/15/0/0 are still playable and worth a try.
Basic 25/30/0/0/15 is good too but im not fan of it.
Im proly only thief rolling 3800 attack build outdps’es and outlives glass cannons with builds such as 25/30/0/0/15 sadly people think building hightest dmg is through dmg lines such as deadly arts
build or didnt happens
runes of stenght 10/30/30/0/0
utlitys smoke screeen/shadow refuge Stack smoke screen at start of game aoe stealth all team for 12 seconds geneating your might stacks, by the time you arrive for first teamfight you will have 3100 attack from gear/traits and 12×35 extra from might stacks extra. If you survive to get 25 stacks of might you will be capable of unkeeping 12 stacks of might all of the time. + 250 attack from bloodlust.
That is 3100+250+12x35=3770 personal attack you can always unkeep.
Your overal stats will be 3800 attack. 49% crit chance 2300 armor 15k hp and passive 330 hp per second healing while stealthed. Your stealths will remove conditions, heal you and last longer this way. And it will refund innitiative. This way you have 4 active and 1 passive way to stealth. If you feel like taking assasins signet/haste you can mug>CnD>backstab combo for around 20k dmg on other glass cannons. Even withouth hiting backstab you will hit around 11k. You can get full innitiative back with shadow refuge in 4 seconds. as each pulse counts for stealth=2 innitaitive.
4 pulses =8 innitiative back + 3 innitiative from natural regeneration making up to 11 innitiative back in 4 seconds. Along wiht 12 might stacks and basicly at least 2 conditions remove, up to 5 if you stay whole duration.
That was the almighty S/D build ( Q_Q).
The reason why this build is not that good, now that S/D has been crushed to hell, is that it relies on heavy stealth uptime to be effective, basically you need to “build up” your burst, which is not always available from the start of the fight.
Moreover, you can’t cap while stealthed.
Moreover*, you lose 20 % damage from scholar runes bonus*, dagger training and exposed weakness ( you regen health constantly, i would prefer scholar runes even with your build).
It’s a very solid build, but current meta is too bursty to have to “wait” in order to build up your damage ( altough i very much prefer those builds instead of the “BAMM dead” builds).
I would go with D/P, for easier access to stealth, anyway.
How come you’re saying its 20% Based on my calculations i win around 5% damage below 90% and lose about same 5% while above 90%.
Im proly only thief rolling 3800 attack build outdps’es and outlives glass cannons with builds such as 25/30/0/0/15 sadly people think building hightest dmg is through dmg lines such as deadly arts
build or didnt happens
runes of stenght 10/30/30/0/0
utlitys smoke screeen/shadow refuge Stack smoke screen at start of game aoe stealth all team for 12 seconds geneating your might stacks, by the time you arrive for first teamfight you will have 3100 attack from gear/traits and 12×35 extra from might stacks extra. If you survive to get 25 stacks of might you will be capable of unkeeping 12 stacks of might all of the time. + 250 attack from bloodlust.
That is 3100+250+12x35=3770 personal attack you can always unkeep.
Your overal stats will be 3800 attack. 49% crit chance 2300 armor 15k hp and passive 330 hp per second healing while stealthed. Your stealths will remove conditions, heal you and last longer this way. And it will refund innitiative. This way you have 4 active and 1 passive way to stealth. If you feel like taking assasins signet/haste you can mug>CnD>backstab combo for around 20k dmg on other glass cannons. Even withouth hiting backstab you will hit around 11k. You can get full innitiative back with shadow refuge in 4 seconds. as each pulse counts for stealth=2 innitaitive.
4 pulses =8 innitiative back + 3 innitiative from natural regeneration making up to 11 innitiative back in 4 seconds. Along wiht 12 might stacks and basicly at least 2 conditions remove, up to 5 if you stay whole duration.
That was the almighty S/D build ( Q_Q).
The reason why this build is not that good, now that S/D has been crushed to hell, is that it relies on heavy stealth uptime to be effective, basically you need to “build up” your burst, which is not always available from the start of the fight.
Moreover, you can’t cap while stealthed.
Moreover, you lose 20 % damage from scholar runes bonus, dagger training and exposed weakness ( you regen health constantly, i would prefer scholar runes even with your build).
It’s a very solid build, but current meta is too bursty to have to “wait” in order to build up your damage ( altough i very much prefer those builds instead of the “BAMM dead” builds).
I would go with D/P, for easier access to stealth, anyway.
Runes of strenght add 5% damage while affected by might=always so it compensates for dagger training. I cant go s/d as it lacks any reasonable finisher moves, making dagger more effective in this case. Building up damage is not neccesary if you just dont let go of it from the start. D/P fits keeping that 12 mights up perfectly, however it has no straightforward damage to eliminate people in combat. The team i run with, mostly runs with 2 thieves so i dont have problem keeping my damage caped with permanent 12 stacks of might. Along with ele auras im ussualy sitting at 4000~ attack.
And about caping points :/. It is very reasonable not to ask thief to cap the point or at least not to defend it so stealth doesnt matter in the end. And well,`Since im basicly invisible unless i end up in encounter with someone, (19 seconds from smoke screen on 30 seconds cd lets you unkeep 12 stacks of might alone + it lets you pick targets on demand since 60% of time you are invisible.
Anyways noone said anything bad about me playing this build in tourneys, and i win most fights vs other roamers even if its thief. Since thief with more innitiative will win taking that we are equaly skilled. But my build has superior stealth/innitiative regen/healing. His build based on instagib cannot win encounters where i can stealth + regenerate innitiative twice at his rate.
Deadly arts tree III
Critical strikes I VI XI
Shadow arts IV V XI
Acrobatics -
Trickery-
Gear Runes of stenght
Sigils bloodlust and air on d/d
Fire on shortbow
After you accumulated 25 stacks of bloodlust slot in force sigil(+5% dmg)(you can still change sigil midgame for those who didnt notice.
Your tactis is to attack from stealth. Once you learn timing you use shortbow for root quick swap to d/d and do backstab through steal(basic steal CnD backstab combo. The backstab will hit faster then does root from invisibility in shortbow. This way you get both snare and backstab dmg. Stunbreakers wont help people as thye also need a condition removal to run away also or position changing stunbreak or invurnuability. This snare coupled with backstab wont allow dodges if you aim to finish with heartseeker.
The setup is based that you will stealth often. Thats why smoke screen. basicly a 17 second stealth on 30 seconds cd if you want to use it like that, not moving(non combat only though.
In combat use it to hide from projectiles heartseeker though it for backstab.
Its also perfect finisher. Lets say 3v3 teamfight. Cluster bombs with stealth nearby stomping allys while doing damage and blinding people, and only you will be revealed. Your allies got a safer stomps.
You can cast CnD on necro minions and other adds why you shouldnt be able to do it on rangers pet. Classes that rely on npc’s and adds to perform well will be easier for thief to kill. Lets say Untouchable guardians spirit weapeons annoys thieves as hell though. There are counters. Sadly dagger offhand tottaly counters whole ranger class.
Im proly only thief rolling 3800 attack build outdps’es and outlives glass cannons with builds such as 25/30/0/0/15 sadly people think building hightest dmg is through dmg lines such as deadly arts
build or didnt happens
runes of stenght 10/30/30/0/0
utlitys smoke screeen/shadow refuge Stack smoke screen at start of game aoe stealth all team for 12 seconds geneating your might stacks, by the time you arrive for first teamfight you will have 3100 attack from gear/traits and 12×35 extra from might stacks extra. If you survive to get 25 stacks of might you will be capable of unkeeping 12 stacks of might all of the time. + 250 attack from bloodlust.
That is 3100+250+12x35=3770 personal attack you can always unkeep.
Your overal stats will be 3800 attack. 49% crit chance 2300 armor 15k hp and passive 330 hp per second healing while stealthed. Your stealths will remove conditions, heal you and last longer this way. And it will refund innitiative. This way you have 4 active and 1 passive way to stealth. If you feel like taking assasins signet/haste you can mug>CnD>backstab combo for around 20k dmg on other glass cannons. Even withouth hiting backstab you will hit around 11k. You can get full innitiative back with shadow refuge in 4 seconds. as each pulse counts for stealth=2 innitaitive.
4 pulses =8 innitiative back + 3 innitiative from natural regeneration making up to 11 innitiative back in 4 seconds. Along wiht 12 might stacks and basicly at least 2 conditions remove, up to 5 if you stay whole duration.
Improving black powder would allow you to face tank on a point, standing and blinding basicly largest part of cap point. Its also possible to chain 3-4 of them since they last 4 seconds you only lose 3 innitiative per 1 field basicly.
Anyways my point is, its a combo field, not “you cant kill me perma blinded” skill
It could be improved though by giving some weapeons(sword etc. combo finisher)
You’re getting off topic. This is about stealth being broken, which can only relate to thieves. Vigor and things of that nature should be left to the big boys that have to manage more than one thing at a time.
You’re right – but what we keep getting as counter-argument in favour of stealth is:
“boo-hoo, without our totally broken class-mechanic we will have no defences”
Here I come to say:
“wait a minute… you can achieve a rate of endurance regen which lets you evade just about any time you care to press the roll button, and have access to some of the best (non-stealth) evasive utilities in the game”
The worst part is that the Thief can easily have his cake and eat it too – I guess we should count ourselves lucky so many Thief players are such hopelessly clueless FOTM-abusing nubbins and haven’t seemed to figure it out yet.
Withdraw makes gaps, you need to close later, gained vigor 66% uptime will be spent at dodges while closing gap you just made with your heal. It has very serious drawback to it.
Im proly only thief rolling 3800 attack build outdps’es and outlives glass cannons with builds such as 25/30/0/0/15 sadly people think building hightest dmg is through dmg lines such as deadly arts
Thieves have the worst survivability, and are fourth on mobility.
What thieves do have however is stealth, which is an advantage.
Funny comment. Thieves have the worst survivabililty? Ridiculous. Whats about their stealth, shadowstep, blinding powder, shortbow 5 …
I played a thief for a few days now and its absolutly easy to jump in the fight – kill 1 or to guys and if your health gets low .. baam – out of fight and no chance for the enemy to catch you.
Survivability is the ability to take damage and live through it.
Nope, thats called mitigation. Survivability is just being able to stay alive. Profs that can drop targets whenever the hell they want, and/or just run away have the most survivability. Thief has the most survivability in the game. Also the most reliable burst and some of the best mobility.
Whats so great from surviving if you cant do your objective(cap/decap the point). Btw Stealth is deception just like mesmers clones. It is survivability in your skills/trickery, not one integrated into gear. And for burst to be effective he has to have good mobility. Burst withouth ability to be where he is needed is useless by itself.
Thief has( my opinion)
3rd best dmg burst.
1st burst by chance to suceed.
1st in combat mobility.
3rd out of combat mobilility.
8th damage migtation.
1st way to avoid taking dmg.
8th place by chance to defend a point from beeing decaped.
4th place at decaping point.
7th place at generating combo fields.
2nd place by generating combo finishers.
4th place at single target sustained dps.
4th place at aoe sustained dps.
d/d ele beats thief if most of these ratings of mine. Rating system is from 1st to 8th.
Thieves are ok. However it has quite some downsides.
In a big teamfight, you wont be able to stomp or ress people withouth help of other classes. Your main contribution will be damage and picking out main target(necro’s in this meta).
Having a thief will contribute greatly to roaming and decaping points, while quickly defending yours in small scale fights.
Once fight grows into all out teamfight, you need to look for weakened people or ones who make mistakes, giving you good positioning to burst them.
You wil never be in middle of combat, you will shoot your shortbow while waiting for 1 target to get low, jump on him, down him, and jump out of combat, as other way you wouldnt survive it.
Sadly heavy bunkers will counter you hard, as do d/d eles… which pretty much brings you to killing enemy necro/thief and decaping side points while helping your points.
You will have to get used to play a vulture… pick out weakened targets stay away for healthy ones.
In conclusion i would call thief 5th by terms of viability in touraments right after guardian/ele/mesmer/necro.
Blinding Powder: 3 second stealth 40 second CD
Cloak and Dagger: 3 second stealth, 6 initiative cost, requires melee range
Hide in Shadows: 3 second stealth, 30 second CD
Shadow Refuge: 10 second stealth, 60 second CD, requires the thief to sit inside it for the full 5 second duration
Which is these is OP again?
shadow refuge and CnD. thanks.
Far from a comprehensive list, here are some more to add:
Can also trait to add one second to stealth skills, trait to stealth on steal, can steal a stealth ability, can trait to stealth/blind when receiving more than 20% damage, HS through blackpowder (6 init-pistol skill) for free stealth, can use C&D on pets etc for stealth, heartseeker through smokescreen (30 sec cd) for stealth, shadow trap (30 sec CD), trait for stealth under 25% health (60 sec CD).
Oh look even more stealth skills, looks like you were lying you dumbkitten. Stop trying to justify a broken class more nerfs are on the way so be prepared to go back to your 1600 wow team
You are the dumb one. WIth things listed first it takes all utility slots allready. Since when do we as thieves got unlimited utility slots. And since when we all spec into defencive trees( for stealth on 25% or stealth taking more then 20% hp in 1 hit, or stealth on steal).
The best thief spec with stealth out there is probably 0/30/30/10/0
It can stealth 50-60% of time. However it has way less damage then any other spec.
If you are stealthed for 50% of time you dont do damage for 50% of time too.
Withouth stealth thief cant possibly kill a warrior.
According to tests: Warrior downed, his random attack downed hits 1500-2k dmg
I got 14k hp. With his interrupt and autoattack damage he kills me faster then i can finish him. His vengeance goes up and he stomps me.
Thieves are best at beeing glassy. We dont have regeneration/protection/retaliation available and lowest hp pool with medium armor. Its way worse then any other glass. Thieves defences are either dodge or stealthy. Stealth is not as good in PvE though, it works but not as good in PvP so dodge is best for thieves. Thats why SoA and acrobatics tree is very important in PvE in my opinion.
This is pretty much it, focus on kiting with shortbow, dodge a lot to stack mights, for ranged/unkitable mobs pistol whip them, works well in WvW too, where you can pick up 50% falling damage or might on dodge depending how you play. Lots of hit volume leads to quite decent heals, and signet of agility for extra dodges and conditions removal.
The mesmer nees a nerf as in melee range burst is instant. No way to avoid it at all. And mesmer has 5k more hp+ team utilitys. Not that their burst is OP, unless you are in melee range(stunbreaks dont help there anymore).
At least i can stunbreak from thief or shadowstep away. Mesmer shatter is insant and you cant see it coming in melee range.
We were told in the BWE that Necro “Needed some love” it was followed up by a nerf to our most viable spec. Now he tells us that we are fine and that evry necro just needs too “Master” DS to be viable, We are the least desired PvP class up there with Elementalist thats just a fact, In PvE yet again least desirable class. For the people who acctualy lvled up Necro and like it who were waiting for that “Love” they promised we have now just been told that we are fine and we need to L2P it properly. That kind of information tends to upset people.
Do you even play game or just write nonsense in forums ? eles and necros unwanted :??
I really hope ANet makes his own mind about the issue and ignores the forum whiners who just want to tear down any class that isn’t theirs.
I love my thief but he isn’t my only character so it’s not like I will care much either way.
as long as all the classes remain fun to play that is all that matters.
I have a thief and I love it pve. If they nerf to hard I won’t like it either anymore. All my of suggestion clearly pointed only in wvw direction, so this isnt ‘nerf thief to hell, QQ whining’ as you are afraid of. But we both know culling, is OP for thiefs in wvw. Add in higher then PVE stats, and the burst damage gets multiplied harder then low damage professions. Add on top of that thoughness barely making a diff, and thief is to OP. I admit just nerfing damage won’t work. Hell they should keep damage as it is. But cloacking is way out of line. Thief has the most dodges of all professions in the game. (Utilities – Roll for iniative -, skills like Death Blossom, trait, that makes endurance return on dodge, kinda making a thief dodge bar has 3 bars compared to other professions). why is this left out? Why does Anet lay the focus on the strongest ‘retreat’ ability? Normal combat (excluding cloacking thus), with the many dodges thief has, should be sufficient to make them ‘viable’. Spammable cloack makes them OP.
Guardian had a serious Greatsword nerf, and recently altruistic healing nerf. They still adapted, and keep playing. All these thiefs saying ‘but thief will be useless’ are lyers. They are just scared to be pushed to adapt to other (less cowardly) skills then cloack.
Ok i encourage you to make a non stealth thief. I will come with all my guardian/mesmer and ele and if you beat any of them ill accept that non stealth thief is viable. Heck you couldnt even beat any class.
@stin. yes you are awesome and have an awesome team. good for you. now if you wanna always play against other 7 awesome teams that’s cool and i understand (but with this system even some of the awesomest teams are in – with tickets). and as you say, it is a good system that doesn’t allow crappy players/teams to play paids as it is. but why do they sell tickets for cash then???
Some new teams starting paids might need it. When paids ware introduced i allready had 70~ tickets from free tourneys. Any new player who started playing after paids ware introduced would have no free tickets. He cannot play…. and he shouldnt untill he has a lot of experiance in free’s and teamwork…
Tbh im not sure why buying tickets is implemented, most top teams dont buy them since they make it with what they earn in paids.
I would guess its an extra way to earn a little money sparing the players some time.
Needing to buy or farm some “tickets” ( like its a movie or something) to be able to pvp in some game is a laughable concept.Why stop there i say, introduce tickets to enter high lvl dungeons too or to be able to log in every day.Hey, its no problem, you can always grind them if you dont wanna buy.Dont know about you all but i think something like this should have never been part of this game.
I am sorry but do you expect to enter paid tourneys just as easy as free ones, play with best teams ingame, withouth any effort ? If you always lose 1st-2nd round in paids its time to think maybe change your team, yourself and tactics or go do free’s.
Its only logical highter quality things are less available.
it seems that people forget to mention that u the actual amount of paid pvp as decrease (at least in NA servers) and the teams that win in the region (mostly 4 main teams) are the ones getting the actual sweet rewards from paid tournaments. The rest, they need to struggle to obtain those tickets and to loose xD.
if u get real, u need to spend 4-6 hours a day in a game (as u said) to have the amount of tickets to scrape 1 (max 3) paid tournament , without taking into account how long those queues are.
and the forge? hope u r having a joke, slivers rarely drop, plus, u what about the glory that u need to spend to get all the freaking dust u need for crafting? and that is without taking into consideration how many times u need to convert (1k glory every-time) to get the mats u lack.
and the region bug? lololol, u waste a week stuck in a region without chests (been there, done that, I feel for you). Reported several tickets, posted in bug forums, asked question in the forum, and not single answer to this problem. apparently, u need to have the same amount of tournaments won from your original region (EU/NA) on the new region in order to get the chest rewards, then again, this is what people have told me, no official response.
ehh from glory of last 2 weeks(basicly 100 hours) i now got enough materials to forge 40 tickets. I also in tottal won around 50-60 tickets in plus while doing paids.
Im am not familiar with region swap. but that is serious issue as you say.
Tourament tickets is the least problem in pvp now. You either sacrifice time to farm frees/buy tickets or an awsome team to end up in + on average.
5v5 is actualy the way to do it. If every class had same ability to 1on1, then the ones with worse team contribution wont be taken. But if 1 class is amazing in teamfight and crappy in 1on1, you will take both best 1on1 and best teamfights class to balance it out.
… your post is nonsense… never paid for tourament ticket and i got 150 or so atm.
If you spend time(4-6 hours daily at least) you will have all tickets you need.
Ofcourse you will lose some over time in paids, lets say 20 paid touraments you spent 100 tickets. but won enough gems to buy 80. Your tickets will be less and less and over couple of weeks you will be out of tickets.
But thats normal system. If you would bring out more tickets out of tourament then there are used it would be a loss for both sides. More non-prestige teams in paids, more stomping and no fun for top teams. I realy enjoy current system.
Its only loss is that longer queues.
btw… you can forge tourament tickets in mystifc forge. 80 orbs 40 crystals and 20 slivers will give you 10 tickers when used with consumable tokens. Getting items above takes around 20-30 chests=10tourament wins+10 glory chests earned during touraments. You could basicly say 1 tourament won=2 tickets.
However you try to justify it this is ridiculous. At least a thief has an entire build devoted to being a quick gib setup, whereas a mesmer can run this setup and have…
1)Instant 10k AREA BURST with more for single target.
2)Portal for control over home point and middle, allowing to contribute in contested team battles.
3)Time warp to give a team area HASTE for 10 seconds for quickness stomps and quick kills.
4)The best duelist in the game.
And people wonder why mesmer is required on every team….
F1 + 1 ,222222222222222222222222
Nice non-rebuttal. I wouldn’t mind thief burst getting nerfed either, its just hilarious listening mesmers try to justify this. They bring so much more to the team other than their damage, which is in many ways more insane than thieves. The only thing they are lacking in is on demand mobility, otherwise you’d be seeing 3 mesmer teams dominating every game.
then let’s not argue on the fact that mesmers need to use different types of skills to actually be useful and your complaining about that fact.
Every class uses different skills to be useful, hence why they are useful. Very few classes bring such all-encompassing utility and damage that the mesmer has in one build. Mesmer’s should have more viable builds for tournies, but this variant is WAYY over the top to the point it outshines anything else they could bring.
they do have more builds, its just a matter of ppl not generalizing that every single mesmer is a shatter build and that their MW is what makes that mesmer.
Im not gonna argue bout that, but answer these plz
1. Which one brings more help to team?
2. Which one can bunker.
3. Which one can burst other glass cannons from 100>0%
4.How many utilitys does it use to set up burst.
My answers
1.Mesmer
2.Mesmer
3.Both
4. Thief (assasins signet and elite)(45 seconds cd for)(steal available each 45 seconds only)
Mesmer( Takes 1 utility, almost same cd) burst available each 10 seconds
Mesmer has more often acess to burst, more team utility too AND he can bunker side point. If he only had mobility of thief i would never probably see thief ingame anymore.
mesmers can’t really bunker, they avoid damage using illusions…
They can defend point and not let enemy cap it, they can port in teammates to help him. Now please tell me how you imagine thief holding the point in glass cannon spec.
100>50% took me 5-9 heartseekers
50>25% took me 2-4 heartseekers
25>0% took me 1-2 heartseekers.
At best possible case its 8 heartseekers(all crits)=24 innitiative minding that guardian didnt pop any heal/active defences, or aeagis.
At worst its 15 heartseekers(0 crits)=45 innitative on guardian stadning afk.
By the time i use 4 heartseekers(12 innitiative) i have enough innitiative for 2 more so its basicly 6 heartseekrs in a row at best(if i haste i will have enough only for 5 since i spend my resources faster)
Testing average heartseeker damage its next to imposible to deal 28k with 5 heartseekers from 100%.
It is possible if he mug>cnd>backstab you pop death shround but are under 25% then average heartseeker on glass cannon is 6-7k. If he did 5 hearseekers like that its entirely viable.
. After quite some games in new map, and reading multiple discussions about it, i found an idea which sounded realy good to my fellow mates, so i would like to discuss about it here..
outdps’es and outlives glass cannons with builds such as 25/30/0/0/15