Guild Wars 2

Lol, was more about team composition and farming ingame where not personal skills but how well your carrys ware allowed to farm. It makes disbalances, as 1 team might have more/less farm. In gw2 you all get same gear, meaning only the outcome of battle is decided by build/skill.
You could say farming takes skill, but there ware heroes better and worse at it.

Chriswck.6490:

I mean one cannot attack from stealth. To attack, one has to first unstealth. Unstealthing has a duration that is commensurate with the time it takes for others to render. Then the first attack soon after unstealthing will be the first hit. That first hit will inherit the effects that currently come with attacking from stealth.

Uhh, in short, think TF2 spy?

I would not want it same way as tf spy… and btw it could 1 hit from behind with knife, thats why it was like that.

Yes, but in here, there is more self healing, and dodges, which are semi counter to burst builds. Anyhow i like this pace which is action rpg, where your relfexes and personal skill can save you from trouble way better then your passive defences and armor.

Just for gags take exotic ranger with berserkers and all traits for longbow damage, its autoattack at 1000+ range can hit up to 5k damage on glass cannons + you have a pet.
Rapid fire does around 15-20k dmg if full channeled, in 2.5 second with quickness.
Dmg wise thief isnt even OP.

I haveiseen quite some teams run warrior, he is good as a bruiser. I ussualy want to be paired with warrior if i got one in my team(im a thief), as it brings great results with him surviving and dealing great damage, while i pick out weakened people faster. But actualy guardians can do that too with more, cc instead of damage. Its up to you, more damage or more control over the target

MistyMountains.3751:

Honestly im finding less and less issue with thief burst…, the only issue i ever have with a thief is HS spam…mainly for the fact it negates all CC u can throw to escape, while any other class would be countered by said CC… I dont believe 1 class should have a perma closer, and should have a 3 sec CD added to it per use…but this is just my opinion

It basicaly has 3 second cd since it takes innitiative points that regenerate in 3 seconds, however if for last lets say 6 seconds thief did just autoatacks he now has enough for 2x HS to gap close and kill you, and its not a problem with heartseekers damage, its just that 450 gap closer should be remade into 350 or 300. But with faster animation a lil.

Fellknight.4820:

I was a big fan of GW1 which is why I’m still here hoping beyond hope that Dev’s will wake up and correct it.

Im sorry but didnt assasins spike as hard in gw1 exept some tanks which arent burstable in here too.

watch from 45 seconds. You see assasin spike people in 1-2 seconds.

StugLyfe.2134:

no class should be auto attacking for 3k hits.

Tell that to warrior, or rangers longbow at 1000 range in WvW hiting 5k as an autoattack.

Thief healing issue ? first time i hear it lol. The only way i heal a lot is 30 points in shadow arts + berserkers gear valkyries jewelry, or sth like that, and 30 points in shadow arts, Ok you heal a lot then, but you cant burst even mst glass cannons down then in 1 combo.

I’dd like to check some things out.
2day met a realy awsome elementalist, as ussualy i was not expecting any collosal damage, however his RTL, updraft + some third skill combo chained 10k + burn that would take off some 2-3k damage of my life.

As having 16k hp,(mind that im a thief with 16k hp and 2500 armor is not a full glass cannon) i found it amusing. While combo was dodgable, if it hit you withouth stunbreaker, i would end up toasted. He also had considerable survival, and often protection.

I’d like to test that build out for myself, however i got no idea which one it is. Could you please post supposed build here ?

You dont need defencive gear to survive. Some traits give that, like warriors block on 25%, thiefs stealth on 25% eles shield, mesmers got sth too if i remember good, guardians are naturaly tanky, engineers got potion S on some hp % if i know it good, necros got death shround and s on

It should but its worst with rangers rapid fire tracks you for 5 seconds… i stealth eat damage during whole stealth and then emerge out of stealth with ranger still using that rapid fire …

nldixon.8514:

I honestly don’t see this as a viable fix to Rangers.

If ANet really wants to fix Rangers there is one simple solution: remove the cast time on pet attacks or allow pet attacks to channel while moving. Boom. Problem solved. Pets would essentially be able to “attack on the run” and Rangers would get back a large portion of their lost damage.

How about no as it would ruin stealth classes with channel while running as you could see where thief is going all the time if you got certain pets. Removing cast time on some pets is ok some pets got too good skills to remove cast time.

Pyrial.2917:

Syko.3726:

Hey everyone, the point of this topic is to post your rankings of what you believe is hardest class to play in PvP (sPvP / tPvP) to the easiest.

1- Ranger
2- Engineer
3- Necromancer
4- Elementalist
5- Mesmer
6- Warrior
7- Guardian
8- Thief

So thief is easiest and ranger is hardest overall, in my opinion.

Hardest to play as in skilll level required or hardest to play as in ability to stomach the current playstyle?

I’d dare to disagree. In my opinion.

1.Ranger(has insane dueling spec, but it isnt tourament viable, if it was it would be nr3)
2.Necro
3.Ele
4.Engi
5.Warrior
6.Thief
7.Mesmer
8.Guardian

Well thief can actualy use spec which allows to stealth around 40% of all time. But that, does not go with burst specs, does not allow extreme damage, as we use all slots for stealth/stunbreak.

Raijinn.9065:

Stin.9781:

Raijinn.9065:

Stin.9781:

Im just wondering if thief is so OP why in touraments i see more guardians/mesmers elementalists and necros lately then thiefs ?

You might be thinking of another post there buddy

http://www.gw2league.com/rankings-spvp.aspx class distribution in Paid touraments. Take a look at it mate, and as i said necros are on the rise.

But this thread is about the next patch being in January…..and so far most of the posts have been relevant to the topic at hand (hint which one does not belong).

The OP mentioned thief needing nerfs. If he is keen on saying thief needs nerfs i say, guardian need nerfs more, its almost 2x more picked class then thief, or any other profesion.

Raijinn.9065:

Stin.9781:

Im just wondering if thief is so OP why in touraments i see more guardians/mesmers elementalists and necros lately then thiefs ?

You might be thinking of another post there buddy

http://www.gw2league.com/rankings-spvp.aspx class distribution in Paid touraments. Take a look at it mate, and as i said necros are on the rise.

Im just wondering if thief is so OP why in touraments i see more guardians/mesmers elementalists and necros lately then thiefs ?

Thief can stealth pretty often too, but he also has weakness called innitiative. Its a double edged blade, we cannot use 2 weapeon sets effectivly, unlike other classes. We use our innitiative and are left defencless, as we cannot cast any skill at all, even if we swap weapons. Stealth is implemented cuz of that, if diffrent weapeons had diffrent innitiative pools you could talk about less stealth.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mckmMc9cogLbMogLbMG0aGGckMVazk8kiW7kiH7kiW7070M7kGU70V7owY8ofv

Not a realy Tpvp viable build however, so far, even if made just for gags noone beat me, Interupts stun and blind field from s/p set, setting ambush trap then waiting for someone to step on it, then setting 1 more under them after Infiltrators strike lets us to have next to permanent thiefs guild. With ressing allly rune + rock dog and Thiefs guild you can potentialy have 7 adds at a time.

If you got that many adds, just daze, him and stop him from using skills and let adds do the job. Steal has 80% chance to recharge 1 of your skills.
Also smoke screen with many of your thiefs pistol attacks processes very often blinds. If you manage to pull off pistol whip, while your thiefs are damaging the target it is certain death for glassy people.

Rangers are very good at 1on1, one of best point defenders when it comes to it beeing able t have almost permanent vigor/regeneration uptime. While having 20 seconds stability from Roam as one, gives a lot of ways not to let point be nulified by knockbard guardian or someone like that. But thats it.

What i would actualy want to see from the ranger is Highter movespeed, between points which your idea makes ideal, however:

The pet would have to defend the point, if he is killed before ranger teleports back, he loses ability to tp back. Pet does not count as a person holding a point. Pet has its protection range, so if attacked from far, he cannot chase target to faraway places.

With these conditions in motion its a rly decent idea.

As a thief I can say Things mentioned above counter me hard:

1. Another stealth(other thiefs and mesmers)
2. Invurnuability(Mesmers who can time it well and eles)
3. Setting up traps/aoes under yourself also channeled skills(necro/ranger)
4. Dodges/evades
5. Aoe controll skills(guardians)
6. Immobilization/daze(Net turret, mesmers daze, some other soft cc)
7.Facing your back against wall(not much chance for backstab/daze)
8.Autoattacking air(most useless but sometimes works)

These are my stealth counters, numbering is from what i feel hardest countering to me. In a row from hardest to lowest.

Sprawl.3891:

felivear.1536:

Sprawl.3891:

the whole hot join/auto balance system just sucks, period. This is not a FPS and does not play like one. Why people are making comparisons to TF2 and BF is just laughable. Matches take a short period of time and the glory grind is endless so crying about potentially losing out on a minuscule amount of glory because you may get DC’d is quite funny.

Nobody, other than Evan pointing out to consider that as a possible issue, is complaining about losing glory due to DC. So, not sure where you are deriving such comedic pleasure.

well that’s what made it so funny. a dev mentioning some thing with zero relevance like it would affect their own game design lol.

Mate he meant that, if they make system, that will not award glory untill the end of game, people would leave less probably, which i got to agree to some point.
However after rank 30 i am not afraid of losing glory from 1 game as it is such a small part of what i need to make its silly.

Now about fixing this:

Some people want to duel/team up and leave the match if they end up in same/diffrent team then their friend.
Way to fix: Custom server/arena where people could do what they want, with each other. It should not award glory though.

2nd problem is people are getting stomped, by another better, more efficient team, unable to gain glory they change server/leave game.
Way to fix: Autobalance at start of game by players rating(some system, like ELO, but rank would suffice too for now).

3rd problem: People while waiting for free/paid touraments to start join hotjoin to do something while waiting.
Way to fix: Players while quequed can only access certain servers(with other quequed people and people who join such servers themselfes)

Disable autoattack, and try not to push too many buttons ahead… Like some people try to do 1-2 heartseers end up doing 3-4 >.< which looks and is kitten

STRanger.5120:

Daecollo.9578:

Unload snares you for 50%…..

Well, I´m yet to experience this, where did you got this conclusion?
I´m fully mobile while channeling Unload, with the exception of dodge, that will of course interrupt it…..

Maybe he is always walking backwards when casting unload.

Daecollo.9578:

Stin.9781:

Daecollo.9578:

Stin.9781:

Daecollo.9578:

Revamp all traits to be useful.

Pistols:
Vital Shot – No cool-down (Double Firing Rate.) [It can now do damage!]
Unload 6 second cool-down. Increase damage by 150%.) [It does less damage then sword autoattack…]
Headshot – 8 second cool-down (Increase damage by 350%.) [Seriously, it does 84 base damage…)
Black Powder -10 Second cool-down. (Increase damage by 250%.) [Seriously, it does 84 base damage…)
Sneak Attack – Increase base damage and bleed duration damage by 50%.)

Daggers:
Double Strike/Chain – No cool-down. (Increase Poison Duration by 25%.)
Heartseeker – 2 second cool-down. (No Damage Change, its fine.)
Death Blossom -* 6 second cool-down*. (Increase power (not bleed.) damage by 250%.)
Dancing Dagger -* 8 second cool-down.* (Increase damage by 120%)
Cloak And Dagger -10 second cool-down. (Increase damage by 50%.)
Backstab – Damage is fine, however make it to where it stuns the target if you hit them from the back instead of doing more damage, front/back damage should be the same.

Forget cooldowns.

And about unload doing 150% more damage…. have you gone mad ? i mean rly… It now does 6k or so damage on glass cannon if it hits whole and you are speced as glass too.

It would do 15k on glass cannons w/o stacks of might blodlust stacks and stuff. With all that could be 20k damage from 1 skill… a ranged non rooting Hundred blades.

Yeah right…

UNLOAD DOES 4k Damage against bunkers and is a slow channal, very easy to avoid. – And costs “5”, FIVE initiative. (because it fires 8 times for 199 damage, this means if the enemy has toughness/protection it contests against every shot and makes each shot do very little.

My Sword Autoattack Chain does 6500 damage if I hit with it, and Unload does not even give the thief evasion.

Unload is very slow and channals and snares the thief, and offers no evasion and is easilly dodged, you also can’t run away while you use it because if you turn around it cancels unload.

It does 199 on paper. When might stacks + dmg traits, critical rate + critical damage comes to mind each hit goes around 350 damage-750+ critical on power precision.(Average hit does 600 if i take 50% critical rate(runes of divinity). and 62% crit damage)

600 hiting 8 times does basicly 5k damage, on Spvp not minding WvW where stats can be much highter. And thats if you take runes of divinity not the best damage runes.

5k*(100% +150% that you propose) is 12500 damage… Withouth might stacks, fury, stacks of Bloodlust.
You can haste it to cast it in 1.5 seconds. You want ranged Hundred blades equivalent skill. Which thiefs thanks to innitiative mechanic(which is well though) could spam and you want support ?

In WvW doing 20k with best gear foods with 114% crit dmg and so on. Oh 1 skill 1 dead , lets cast it on another now.

This was all if you added cool-downs to thief skills like the topic said:

Hundred Blades roots you and is an AOE attack, has 6 second cooldown if traited for it, and grants might on each critical hit, and has a very high chance (80-90%) to critical due to many traits warrior has, the warrior also has heavy armor.

Unload snares you for 50% and is NOT an aoe attack, would have an 8 second cool-down and a much lower chance to critical (60%.), the thief also has medium armor and pistol/pistol thief has little to no access to stealth.
Both attacks break channel if you try to move around too much.

Unload has 900 range, but is not an AOE attack, and the user has less armor and almost no stealth, because you pretty much need traits like (25% movement speed and Shadow-Step.) You also pretty much need +90 Precision Signet so it criticalse
Your also ignoring the other things greatsword offers, the spin move is an aoe attack that offers movement breaks and allows you to move quickly, warriors also have perma swiftness with traits and SoR, which also gives them base fury, Thieves have little to no access to fury.

There WONT be cooldowns on thief weapeons unless class is tottaly remade.
If you do have a suggestion that does not include cooldowns say it, if not keep it to yourself.

Daecollo.9578:

Stin.9781:

Daecollo.9578:

Revamp all traits to be useful.

Pistols:
Vital Shot – No cool-down (Double Firing Rate.) [It can now do damage!]
Unload 6 second cool-down. Increase damage by 150%.) [It does less damage then sword autoattack…]
Headshot – 8 second cool-down (Increase damage by 350%.) [Seriously, it does 84 base damage…)
Black Powder -10 Second cool-down. (Increase damage by 250%.) [Seriously, it does 84 base damage…)
Sneak Attack – Increase base damage and bleed duration damage by 50%.)

Daggers:
Double Strike/Chain – No cool-down. (Increase Poison Duration by 25%.)
Heartseeker – 2 second cool-down. (No Damage Change, its fine.)
Death Blossom -* 6 second cool-down*. (Increase power (not bleed.) damage by 250%.)
Dancing Dagger -* 8 second cool-down.* (Increase damage by 120%)
Cloak And Dagger -10 second cool-down. (Increase damage by 50%.)
Backstab – Damage is fine, however make it to where it stuns the target if you hit them from the back instead of doing more damage, front/back damage should be the same.

Forget cooldowns.

And about unload doing 150% more damage…. have you gone mad ? i mean rly… It now does 6k or so damage on glass cannon if it hits whole and you are speced as glass too.

It would do 15k on glass cannons w/o stacks of might blodlust stacks and stuff. With all that could be 20k damage from 1 skill… a ranged non rooting Hundred blades.

Yeah right…

UNLOAD DOES 4k Damage against bunkers and is a slow channal, very easy to avoid. – And costs “5”, FIVE initiative. (because it fires 8 times for 199 damage, this means if the enemy has toughness/protection it contests against every shot and makes each shot do very little.

My Sword Autoattack Chain does 6500 damage if I hit with it, and Unload does not even give the thief evasion.

Unload is very slow and channals and snares the thief, and offers no evasion and is easilly dodged, you also can’t run away while you use it because if you turn around it cancels unload.

It does 199 on paper. When might stacks + dmg traits, critical rate + critical damage comes to mind each hit goes around 350 damage-750+ critical on power precision.(Average hit does 600 if i take 50% critical rate(runes of divinity). and 62% crit damage)

600 hiting 8 times does basicly 5k damage, on Spvp not minding WvW where stats can be much highter. And thats if you take runes of divinity not the best damage runes.

5k*(100% +150% that you propose) is 12500 damage… Withouth might stacks, fury, stacks of Bloodlust.
You can haste it to cast it in 1.5 seconds. You want ranged Hundred blades equivalent skill. Which thiefs thanks to innitiative mechanic(which is well though) could spam and you want support ?

In WvW doing 20k with best gear foods with 114% crit dmg and so on. Oh 1 skill 1 dead , lets cast it on another now.

Daecollo.9578:

Revamp all traits to be useful.

Pistols:
Vital Shot – No cool-down (Double Firing Rate.) [It can now do damage!]
Unload 6 second cool-down. Increase damage by 150%.) [It does less damage then sword autoattack…]
Headshot – 8 second cool-down (Increase damage by 350%.) [Seriously, it does 84 base damage…)
Black Powder -10 Second cool-down. (Increase damage by 250%.) [Seriously, it does 84 base damage…)
Sneak Attack – Increase base damage and bleed duration damage by 50%.)

Daggers:
Double Strike/Chain – No cool-down. (Increase Poison Duration by 25%.)
Heartseeker – 2 second cool-down. (No Damage Change, its fine.)
Death Blossom – 6 second cool-down. (Increase power (not bleed.) damage by 250%.)
Dancing Dagger – 8 second cool-down. (Increase damage by 120%)
Cloak And Dagger-10 second cool-down. (Increase damage by 50%.)
Backstab – Damage is fine, however make it to where it stuns the target if you hit them from the back instead of doing more damage, front/back damage should be the same.

Forget cooldowns.

And about unload doing 150% more damage…. have you gone mad ? i mean rly… It now does 6k or so damage on glass cannon if it hits whole and you are speced as glass too.

It would do 15k on glass cannons w/o stacks of might blodlust stacks and stuff. With all that could be 20k damage from 1 skill… a ranged non rooting Hundred blades.

Yeah right…

1-5 weapeon skills 1-5
Dodge-shift
jump space

all utilitys on my naga, mouse buttons

Swap weapeon- mouse button 3(wheel click)

Steal-R
Alt-look behind
Tab- swaps target

Look i posted this in thief feedback before:

Thief has 2 weapeon sets:
Lets say shortbow and d/d

Lets say thief has 12 innitiative(basic)

He starts dpsing with d/d

CnD>backstab>HS>HS>HS=o innitiative.(stupid combo though)(counting 3 innitiative that regenerated while executing the combo)

If you arent dead he can only autoattack, Swaping to bow lets you only autoattack with bow.

He has 4 options:

1.Fight with autoatacks and hope to finish off.
2.Stealth via utility.(he can run or try to continue fighting, its up to him)
3.Run away via utility(shadowstep)
4. Regenerate innitiative Via utility(roll for innitiative, Which is also his stunbreaker)

The outcome of this is 1 main weapeon for combat and secondary weapeon for utility and niche situations.

Also thief has to pack much more defencive utilitys then any other class, as they cannot stand toe to toe withouth invisibility against any class in fair and square battle.

I myself pack defencive heal(with invis), 3 defencive utilitys + elite skill(which i swap depending on battles, but ussual Dagger storm is defencive too)

What other class packs 3+ defencive utilitys.

Marduh.4603:

Steal
Cooldown 45 second – too big cooldown compared to other professions.
35 second – ideal number, 27 second with full Trickery line

Mug – Too much damage to Adept trait. Need to reduce the damage by 30-50%.

Professoin:
Warriors – Whirling Axe – awesome
Necromancer – Skull Fear – awesome
Thief – Blinding Tuft – awesome
Guardian – Mace Head Crack – awesome
Mesmer – Consume Ectoplasm – awesome
Ranger – Healing Seed – awesome
Elementalist – Ice Shard Stab – awesome
Engineer – Throw Gunk – totally useless and break stealth
Thieves simply can not use a professional skill against the engineers. You need to replace this useless Junk on Big Ol ’Bomb.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Big_Ol%27_Bomb

My inner thief does not agree stealing from warrior is awsome :<

nldixon.8514:

I realize there are a lot of Thief apologists in this thread, seeing as how it was posted in the Thief forums and non-Thief players are unlikely to see it. I also realize that no one wants to see their profession nerfed.

The problem with initiative goes hand in hand with cooldowns. Maybe Death Blossom was a bad example, but the point remains that without cooldowns on their abilities, Thieves completely bypass the very check that keeps high damage abilities balanced.

Backstab, which is probably the single most damaging ability in the game, can be used every three seconds. There is no cooldown and a Thief never has to worry about not having enough initiative. A Thief basically only has to avoid getting nailed for three seconds, which is incredibly easy to do, until they get back into stealth and repeat the process.

Ehm its 4 seconds at best(if you hit right after CnD, and that involves not attacking with innitiative in between so you can cast CnD.
Avoid getting nailed for 3 seconds withouth using innitiative, idd say its pretty hard + you have to be in melee range and can only autoattack.

Ok writing all things I learned so far and my own conclusions:

Problem Nr1

Thief is actualy more decision based class then cooldowns. Warrior use skill nr2 skill….skill nr5 and swaps weapeons.

Look how this works on thief weapeon set(D/D)(if i falowed some rotations)

12 Innitiative at start>skill nr2>9innitiative>skill nr3>4 innitiave>skill nr4>0 innitiaitive>cant cast skill nr5 Weapeon swap Does not allow us to use skills from other weapeon either.

Conclusion:

Thief has to use lesser ammount of skills and its attacks has to be more powerfull as number of those attacks is limited few times more then other class which fallows rotations.

Outcome: Thief will spam most effective skill for curent situation ignoring other skills and weapeon swaps.

Ways to fix: it is balanced in weapeons that has invisibility or relying on our utility cooldown.(stealth, shadowstep to get away from battle for a while). Change/add some way to enter stealth/shadowstep in more innitiative heavy sets

Problem Nr2

Weapeon set P/P has no access to invisibility and no way to stop damage from incoming for prolonged periods of time. It also involves most pistol offhands making them less usefull.

Conclusion: Pistol offhand is less safe to use then dagger offhand, and is counterable more easy.

Outcome: Most thief builds use dagger offhand. This lowers build diversity by basicly 40%

Ways to fix: Stealth in pistol offhand or reduced innitative costs, on it, letting to use defencive skills more often instead of using more effective ones in dagger offhand.

Problem nr3

Steal mechanic is less diverse, less ranged friendly and less usefull then other class mechanics.

Conclusion:This mechanic is useless for people who want to stay at range. For melee thiefs this either serves mainly as either utility(buffs and their stealing/sharing) or addition to burst( mug>CnD>backstab).

Outcome: Steal is either used to the extreme level or to 0 usefullness.

Ways to fix: Adding additional skill slots in skill mechanic(explanation below)

F1 shadowstep to enemy and deal damage.
F2 search the ground for usable items.(would be feathers/tuft/rock/Icicle/branch)
F3 Stores item Stolen using F1
F4 Stores item found using F2

This way ranged people could use thief mechanics not going in melee range

Problem nr4

Low ammount of viable tourament/competative PvP sets

Conclusion: Even if problem nr1 was fixed thief would still have less builds then most other classes.

Outcome: Most thiefs play tottaly same builds.

Ways to fix: New offhand weapeon would fix it all.(or as some people suggested balanced solo wield weapeons for thiefs alone(5 skills on solo weapeon)
Sword offhand, axe offhand.
These 2 offhands are already usable by other classes, so it would not be a problem adding them to thief aresenal. This would 3 new types of builds for Thief.

Might add more later.

Xyrm.5602:

My biggest issue with thief, the entire time, has been survivability. I’ve learned to dodge thanks to the inherent squishiness of the class, but I feel there is a large hole in thief design that needs to be addressed.

Stealth is supposed to be our saving grace. We share the lowest base HP with the Guardian and Elemental professions, both of which have immunity abilities and lots of other survival utilities. And our defense is supposed to be stealth. Good. Great. I get it.

Here’s the problem. Stealth is, in it’s current form, and OFFENSIVE tool, not defensive, in most scenarios. Sure, it allows you to avoid some direct target skills. Notice I said “some”; we’ll get back to that later. However, it is entirely useless against AoE’s and skills that do not require targeting, which is most melee attacks. Some of those AoE attacks have such a large area of effect that one dodge does NOT get you out of them. Our only form of long lasting stealth puts an area on the ground that anyone can see, and has a fairly small radius in comparison to most aoe attacks, meaning if we stand in it we will likely die against any competent player. Ok, fine, stealth shouldn’t be an “I win” button and make you immune to everything; I can live with trying to juke people into thinking I’m somewhere else.

Here’s what’s GENUINELY broken with stealth: any channeled or cast attack that is put on us before we enter stealth continues to hit us. If we are forced to use stealth as a survival mechanic, this is 100% unacceptable. On top of that, as if the damage received wasn’t bad enough, projectile attacks CONTINUE TO TRACK US, showing the enemy EXACTLY where we are. Good teams in tPvP abuse this, spamming weak, casted or channeled abilities with little to no cooldown and an easy to see effect to prevent thieves from being able to make proper use of stealth. This MUST be fixed, or thieves need to be bumped up to the next HP tier. There is no debate. Our damage has been nerfed to more or less fair levels (mug is still broken, and should be removed from the game completely), but our survivability has received ZERO attention.

I will still play my thief in PvE because I love it, but in PvP and WvW stealth is not an acceptable form of survival in its current form.

Thats why thief has to play burst or offencive builds

Our greatest defence is offence, i can dodge a lot sure, i can go invisible sure, but these are skill based defences, about our timing to dodge/go invis/shadowstep.

Elementalists and guardians got blocks/protection/regeration and healing unkeeps what lets them be defencive passivly. apply protection for 10 seconds and fight as you would normaly, thief defence is active.

Is it bad ? In some way it is, in some it is not.
Your defences are inferior, if you are low/mediocre skill player.
Your defences are superior after some skill level, as passive defences can only do as much as reduce damage not avoid it.

Tulisin.6945:

Stin.9781:

bladie.5084:

Deadly traits is alright.
Critical traits are okay
Acrobatics are pretty nice
Trickery is pretty nice as well

Shadow arts traits is just crazy imba glyphs imho. You get rewarded while in stealth? regen while stealth, gain more initiative while stealth gain, 15 seconds of might when stealth? That’s just crazy and nonsense imo. That’s why decent players can’t kill some of us, once we stealth, we can remove conditions, re heal everything, regain all our initiatives and are ready to go for round 2+3+4 and so on.

Yes it gives decent health regeneration some might, and condition removal. Just that Elementalist has all that in AoE scale while also having damage in AoE scale, not like thief.

The thing a lot of folks fail to realize about stealth is that if you want to utilize all those fancy stealth benefits you’re making a tradeoff in attack uptime. Every second you stay in stealth is a second you can’t attack your enemy (because you want to stay in stealth for safety/positioning/trait reasons), but your enemy has free reign to do whatever they want. If you’re fighting someone incompetent that just stands there while you’re stealthed, this is a huge advantage to you. If you’re fighting someone who is active and has a decent idea of where you are or are going to be stealth is a liability. All the repositioning and trait effects in the world can’t make up for an entire three seconds where your opponent is beating on you and you’re just walking around.

Exactly, that 2k health gained while invisible while speced like that is nuthing if oponent manages to land some attacks on you. 4 seconds passed you merge out of invisibility, oponent has same ammount of hp as you did not attack him, he hit some on you, you went into minus.
Elementalist heals while actualy damaging you, he applys more pressure, then does thief + all that is in AoE scale
Also buffs shared from ele will be in AoE scale too not thief self might stacks.
I do not see reasonable reason to whine about this, not taking in mind other class perspectives.

Tulisin.6945:

Tulisin.6945:

Red Falcon.8257:

Skill 2 is a useless, terribly dumbed down version of shadowstep.

Yeah, shadow step is a terrible utility and I don’t see why anyone would want that crap as a weapon skill.

For anyone that missed it, yes, this was sarcasm. Infiltrator’s Strike is amazing.

Sword’s main problem, as others have noted, is that it no longer has any burst capability since any skill that is able to reach >auto attack levels of DPS has been nerfed down to size. I wouldn’t necessarily agree that D/D is the best way to go for even single-target bosses, given the mobility that IS offers. Furthermore, single-target bosses aren’t all that common, most at least spawn adds which gives you the opportunity to pull far ahead with sword.

Well, after trying d/d again after dagger offhand and daze nerf, i still came back to S/D D/D is so dumb frontal assault, which i do not think thiefs aproach should be.
S/D while not having damage potential and having highter TTK is what makes thief for me. IS to your enemy hit your sword combo. Wait to see some big strike coming, teleport back removing condition(stun removal is somewhat… weirdly working) and rush back to your enemy with steal+ CnD for a daze after his big skill) enemy used his big hit, is dazed and probably lost some 50% of his hp, while took minor to no damage and removed conditions if he stacked any. Problem with sword set is that its basic attack is best damage skill hands down. Fixing flanking strike into rangers type of atack on sword similar to flanking strike, could fix whole weapeon set, into good tourament set.

bladie.5084:

Deadly traits is alright.
Critical traits are okay
Acrobatics are pretty nice
Trickery is pretty nice as well

Shadow arts traits is just crazy imba glyphs imho. You get rewarded while in stealth? regen while stealth, gain more initiative while stealth gain, 15 seconds of might when stealth? That’s just crazy and nonsense imo. That’s why decent players can’t kill some of us, once we stealth, we can remove conditions, re heal everything, regain all our initiatives and are ready to go for round 2+3+4 and so on.

Yes it gives decent health regeneration some might, and condition removal. Just that Elementalist has all that in AoE scale while also having damage in AoE scale, not like thief.

@Brutalisk

Sword teleport only works if i attacked you first… i cannot break out of stun if you attack me first with it. It also has 600 yard range teleport, which is less then any ranged attack. Its only Thing thats good about it is that i can teleport back if i am in trouble. If it didnt had teleport back, why not use heartseeker ? 2-3x damage less tottal innitiative cost. What would be the reason to use that ability if not teleport back.

Kaimick.5109:

I have seen HS crit for 7 or 8 k, as far as the amount it happens not sure regardless I have been at full health and had a Thieve from stealth ( and STEALTH is not the issue ) hit me with 3 HS and I have dropped to 15% health. Regardless of how the skill works no profession none should be able to take you down to 18% health by spamming 1 skill.

I am not suggesting a damage reduction I am just saying to put a 2 second CD on it which will dis allow spam fest on it.

As far as a thieve blowing shadow refuge on a stealth kill or a regular stealth it still doesn’t bring them out and still gives them a 100% success rate, I don’t care if they blew a CD or not. You can’t do your Number 2 ability on a lot of profession unless you have a target. CD or not it shouldn’t be allowed.

As far as the Flanking strike I watched a Thieve do it for a good 30 seconds unless there is another underwater ability that makes you swim around the opponent and strike them. He when swim around strike swim around strike. Regardless this made him invulnerable for that 30 seconds.

Again the sad thing is about this I do not see what I consider to be good players spamming flanking strike, spamming HS, or even stealth finishing people. I mean some of them might but from what I can tell I don’t see it.

I can record you a video with my friend how much Can full glass cannon thief hit full glass cannon necro. Im 100% sure i wont even hit 5k in whole time.

Elloni.2473:

My new favorite thief issue is Shadow Assault underwater. If traited right the you can’t hit a thief at all while he protects the point in Capricorn. Once they have the point just leave a thief their to stealth and hit Shadow assault. You’ll never take the point.

ABSOLUTE BULLkitten

You know such things as conditions,sink,aoe, push/pull?

3v3 is too low, no way of stealing third point if you have 2 points caped atm and defend them, since you will run 1v2 with no help all the time. Time with 3 people to cap back points is too big. More bunkerish playstyle as 3v3=less kills=points caping even more important the it is now.

Brutalistik.6473:

Stin.9781:

Brutalistik.6473:

Stin.9781:

Brutalistik.6473:

Kaimick.5109:

Brutalistik.6473:

Kaimick.5109:

Elloni.2473:

Bottom line it isn’t acceptable. Anet has created one of the most lopsided PvP games I’ve ever played and they seem to not take balance very seriously. I’m all for taking adjustments slowly but when the bugs and balance issues are easy to spot and should be fixed asap.

I tried to get three of my friends to join on the free weekend and everyone one said the same thing. “Why would I subject myself to PvP with theifs and mezers so broken?” Also as new players getting dumped on by HB spaz warriors was frustrating as all hell for them.

PvP is more balanced here than in most games I have seen. With that said PvP here in GW is more about knowing your class knowing how things work and understanding things in the game. There are a lot of First time players that get dumped on, I did till I learned how to work with it and turn it against them. Unlike most other games this game requires skill to be good. Not sure why people think that Mesmer’s are broken, for your common Shatter builds you realize how many things have to be done in order to spike ?

I can agree the pvp is a bit balance in this game, but only to a certain extent because their will be those players that know the system on how to make the pvp in this game unbalance whether its based on skills or not.

You mean the point when a player understands how stuff and skills work and how to play to their full capability to maximize the build they choose? Cause that is not unbalancing that is called a learning curve, and admittedly the Learning curve is unforgiving in GW2 as it was in GW.

No Offense but that is like saying
I am really smart, I just don’t take test well, you mean the part where we test you to see what you have learned?

You can call it a learning curve if that’s how you view it. I call it cheating the system cause once you learn about it you start to overuse it cause what’s going to stop ya from using it over and over knowing good and well it won’t be touch until someone complains about it.

Remember thief whirlwind when they stole it from a warrior? 100% evade when using it and recently it got nerf which I’m glad it did.

It did need a nerf but now about balance.

In gw2 experiance is very important, the better you know all classes the better you can play yours. If you want to be on same level as people with 10x experiance you have, and ask for nerfs, to be on same level instead of learning, you are a scrub.
Thief no longer is even at top of touraments lately. Yet you want to nerf something obviously balanced in top tier level down since it is too powerfull in lower scale of experiance. How is that acceptable to thief players who play in paid touraments, and allready have a hard time.

To be specific me and Kaimick want something to be nerf. Mine is more towards teleport break stuns while his is towards heart seeker damage.

Its allready 50 seconds cooldown… not sure what there needs a nerf as a stun breaker on 50 seconds cd is pretty long allready.
Heartseeker does not need damage nerf, it needs leser leap distance instead of 450 maybe 350 or 300. Thats that. But i cant accept nerfs untill they fix forever broken skills like Flanking strike. Btw as thief vs thief HS is allready crap,(personal opinion)

You’re referring to shadow step cooldown, but I’m referring to sword thief since I play one its constant depending how much initiative I have left. It’s probably the same for mesmer but with a lesser cooldown like 6 seconds.

I play one myself. And yes, it is insanely good utility, and…. only skill worth spending innitiative for if you dont need CnD to get stealth and if you need to engage someone or setting it up before fight as stunbreaker in skill slot. Yet i start with with 3 less innitiative=25% less maximum Whats the problem in it ?

ButterOfDeath.2873:

“Well 2 weapeon sets + weapeon kit + 3 class skills + 5 utilitys make up to 23 skills.”
you can’t swap weapons,kits take 1 class slot.
so 5 skills+15 skills+4 from toolbelt+5 if you use the healing kit and elite=30

and…it’s totally not tottaly x)

and yeah,i still have doubts :<

I did not count in elite, and 1 of toolbelt skills somehow ><

Brutalistik.6473:

Stin.9781:

Brutalistik.6473:

Kaimick.5109:

Brutalistik.6473:

Kaimick.5109:

Elloni.2473:

Bottom line it isn’t acceptable. Anet has created one of the most lopsided PvP games I’ve ever played and they seem to not take balance very seriously. I’m all for taking adjustments slowly but when the bugs and balance issues are easy to spot and should be fixed asap.

I tried to get three of my friends to join on the free weekend and everyone one said the same thing. “Why would I subject myself to PvP with theifs and mezers so broken?” Also as new players getting dumped on by HB spaz warriors was frustrating as all hell for them.

PvP is more balanced here than in most games I have seen. With that said PvP here in GW is more about knowing your class knowing how things work and understanding things in the game. There are a lot of First time players that get dumped on, I did till I learned how to work with it and turn it against them. Unlike most other games this game requires skill to be good. Not sure why people think that Mesmer’s are broken, for your common Shatter builds you realize how many things have to be done in order to spike ?

I can agree the pvp is a bit balance in this game, but only to a certain extent because their will be those players that know the system on how to make the pvp in this game unbalance whether its based on skills or not.

You mean the point when a player understands how stuff and skills work and how to play to their full capability to maximize the build they choose? Cause that is not unbalancing that is called a learning curve, and admittedly the Learning curve is unforgiving in GW2 as it was in GW.

No Offense but that is like saying
I am really smart, I just don’t take test well, you mean the part where we test you to see what you have learned?

You can call it a learning curve if that’s how you view it. I call it cheating the system cause once you learn about it you start to overuse it cause what’s going to stop ya from using it over and over knowing good and well it won’t be touch until someone complains about it.

Remember thief whirlwind when they stole it from a warrior? 100% evade when using it and recently it got nerf which I’m glad it did.

It did need a nerf but now about balance.

In gw2 experiance is very important, the better you know all classes the better you can play yours. If you want to be on same level as people with 10x experiance you have, and ask for nerfs, to be on same level instead of learning, you are a scrub.
Thief no longer is even at top of touraments lately. Yet you want to nerf something obviously balanced in top tier level down since it is too powerfull in lower scale of experiance. How is that acceptable to thief players who play in paid touraments, and allready have a hard time.

To be specific me and Kaimick want something to be nerf. Mine is more towards teleport break stuns while his is towards heart seeker damage.

Its allready 50 seconds cooldown… not sure what there needs a nerf as a stun breaker on 50 seconds cd is pretty long allready.
Heartseeker does not need damage nerf, it needs leser leap distance instead of 450 maybe 350 or 300. Thats that. But i cant accept nerfs untill they fix forever broken skills like Flanking strike. Btw as thief vs thief HS is allready crap,(personal opinion)

Brutalistik.6473:

Kaimick.5109:

Knockbacks work against HS noobs, Just so you know I have done it countless times 1v1. that usually stops the HS spam hit. Again this isn’t about the evade it is about people that use 1 skill to do as much damage as someone that does 6 skills.

Since you admit to playing the HS build, why not play the other build that requires you to hit 6 or 7 skills? they have just as much survivability. If you fail to kill, then I guess you have to get out of there or fight to survive.

I am sorry again but the reason why dagger thieves spam HS is not for the Evade it is to do 18k – 21k damage with out much thought process. if it was just for the evade they would do it to get away rather than to do damage, or close the distance. rather they do it when they are in striking range.

Heart seeker can only get knock back or stun when the attack lands and you time it right before they start another heart seeker attack. The damage increases with heart seeker when players health pools decreases.

I can play other builds and still have my survivability like a mesmer since the only thing I’m missing is a evade mechanic that daggers offer.

Again evade is the issue if you want to talk about heart seeker.

Chill! it reduces 66% movespeed making heartseeker leap 150=almost basic attack range which is 130. Criple makes HS 225 range, which is not enough to catch up to any other player spaming HS. YOu just won versus thief gz. He cannot remove chill almost any skill exept Roll for innitiative or Withdraw. If he uses either he makes aruond 600 yard range in between you 2 gz you got at least 600 range now, plus he wasted 1 of his utilitys. To get close to you it will take at least 2 heartseekers=6 innitiative.

P.S. WtF from you see 3 heartseekers doing 18k damage, i have 2500 armor and never saw more then 4k heartseeker when im under 25%

Brutalistik.6473:

Kaimick.5109:

Brutalistik.6473:

Kaimick.5109:

Elloni.2473:

Bottom line it isn’t acceptable. Anet has created one of the most lopsided PvP games I’ve ever played and they seem to not take balance very seriously. I’m all for taking adjustments slowly but when the bugs and balance issues are easy to spot and should be fixed asap.

I tried to get three of my friends to join on the free weekend and everyone one said the same thing. “Why would I subject myself to PvP with theifs and mezers so broken?” Also as new players getting dumped on by HB spaz warriors was frustrating as all hell for them.

PvP is more balanced here than in most games I have seen. With that said PvP here in GW is more about knowing your class knowing how things work and understanding things in the game. There are a lot of First time players that get dumped on, I did till I learned how to work with it and turn it against them. Unlike most other games this game requires skill to be good. Not sure why people think that Mesmer’s are broken, for your common Shatter builds you realize how many things have to be done in order to spike ?

I can agree the pvp is a bit balance in this game, but only to a certain extent because their will be those players that know the system on how to make the pvp in this game unbalance whether its based on skills or not.

You mean the point when a player understands how stuff and skills work and how to play to their full capability to maximize the build they choose? Cause that is not unbalancing that is called a learning curve, and admittedly the Learning curve is unforgiving in GW2 as it was in GW.

No Offense but that is like saying
I am really smart, I just don’t take test well, you mean the part where we test you to see what you have learned?

You can call it a learning curve if that’s how you view it. I call it cheating the system cause once you learn about it you start to overuse it cause what’s going to stop ya from using it over and over knowing good and well it won’t be touch until someone complains about it.

Remember thief whirlwind when they stole it from a warrior? 100% evade when using it and recently it got nerf which I’m glad it did.

It did need a nerf but now about balance.

In gw2 experiance is very important, the better you know all classes the better you can play yours. If you want to be on same level as people with 10x experiance you have, and ask for nerfs, to be on same level instead of learning, you are a scrub.
Thief no longer is even at top of touraments lately. Yet you want to nerf something obviously balanced in top tier level down since it is too powerfull in lower scale of experiance. How is that acceptable to thief players who play in paid touraments, and allready have a hard time.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsYVlUmaPHfS6E95Ey2jeqC5JuCOV3jrK+sKA;TsAg0CvoqxUjoGbNuak1ssYAxkCA

Would be something like this. If you can get fury uptime from food friend or someone you will have 70-75% critical rate, might on dodge will make your attack roughtly 3000, 10 points in shadow arts for condition removal in stealth, that way you can keep more invisibilitys on your toolbar.

Though i would suggest S/p for PvE, but it has no simple access to invis, as thats not what you asked for. Swaping S/D for S/P might be good if you do only PvE

Well 2 weapeon sets + weapeon kit + 3 class skills + 5 utilitys make up to 23 skills.

Thief makes up to 16 + 1 skill gained from steal in tottal, which changes depending on whom you steal from. Engineer keeps preasure through diffrent weapeon sets and skills in them, while thief keeps preasure with 1-2 damage skills, in each weapeon, Others are utilitys. You wont see too much change in how damage is applied in early learning phase and in endgame. With thief you need to learn how to survive, damage is kind of easy to apply.

On engineer, you need to know all of your skills and which is best for certain cases. It is a harder job for sure. Yet i could say it gives highter maximum skill cap, then thief.

In PvE thief is harder to play then most classes. Mesmers and thiefs beeing somehow decent in PvP arent PvE pros. While engineer can keep decent gameplay in PvE all through out the game if used correctly.

I myself play thief for 1 personal reason:
In my opinion avoiding damage tottaly is “leveled up” version of healing up damage. This class in my opinion has potential to beat anything if played correctly, and if not beat anything then at least runaway. It isnt a win if you run away in Tpvp ofcourse, but im awaiting diffrent game modes where less bunkerish, gamestyles are able to rule.

From what you told i would suggest engineer. Thief has no way to tank oponents damage, and has innitiative shared in both weapeon sets so you will end up closer to 1 trick pony then 1 versalite build in any case.
Engineer on other hand can swap through his weapeon sets almost indefinetly having few sets, which save you from lots of trouble as they are very versalite. But engineer has longer cd’s if you want to stick to 1 weapeon.

Tulisin.6945:

It is worth pointing out that you can trait for permaswiftness if you want to, especially with food available.

I am only Spvp and Tpvp player. WvW lost its meaning to me lately, as i no longer have zerging spirit, and going solo, brings me no joy. And i dont see myself gaining perma swiftness in Spvp