Guild Wars 2

Thief does not have stability, also… calltrops has cast time and is droped under myself, so there is no avoiding it, to go long range.

Well but i guess it is ok, Like against minion necro i heal 4x more, since of minions, which hard counters him too. Just healing 4x more and taking 5-6 second stuns fallowed by more CC could be instant death, if ele was burst type.

rickshaw.5279:

I would like to know where this “spammable” invisibility can be found.

I’ve been playing a thief since launch and have yet to find it on my hotbar or in my traits. Is there a magic orb somewhere I need to loot in order to get this mythic ability?

Spamable invisiblity… ye i need that too, unless i spec into shadow arts + take 2 invis at least,(not helping my bursts or damage at all) i cant be invis for more then 20 seconds, if i take 2 utility slots.

Well but they can start blabing about things they want, saying a false belieaf wont make it come true.

Well, others can have perma swiftness, like ele or warrior or even necro i think which is better then thiefs, and dont waste utility slot. Nevertheless, I find it ok.

Spvp and Tpvp including is ok, however lack of biger maps for 8vs8(it sux to do 5vs5 maps as it becomes zerg fest). Few new maps could fix this. I do not see more reasons to rage however.

It does not. Only the hightest movespeed bonus is aplied.
In this case thats swiftness.

You can try disembling items getting Slivers, and trying to make so called “critical” upgrades giving items otherwise unatainable.

IT works in combat however, in combat speed is 66% of normal speed. Boosting 66% by 25% gives us 66*5/4=82.5% movespeed if im correct. Swiftness in combat makes it 88% of normal movespeed.

I would not call this a nerf, i would call this balancing out. Though, it may feel as it is worse.

With what you are suggesting signet would become mandatory in any melee thief build. Nice thats -1 utility slot as i would need my signet all of the time. Oh wait i also need stunbreaker and condition removal, i guess all 3 utility slots would be decided then.

Bsquared.3421:

Arheundel.6451:

You call yourself a good player? You talk about rotation while enemy defenses are up, maybe it’s time to look at more than your initiative bar to spamm 1-2-3 and actually l2p..if you think Anet will nerf non-spammable defense skills for the sake of random button smashers baddies…you’re sadly mistaken

Arheundel and I have certainly had our issues on these here forums before pertaining to the Elementalist class, but in this case, I have to agree 100% with him here.All-in-all, this really is a learn to play issue.

Are you honestly complaining about an Ele eating stack after stack of bleeds JUST to keep you stunned for 5 seconds so that he can unleash hell on you and take away 30% of your hp? Really? Seriously? Maybe he’ll wind up his REALLY BIG DAMAGE item while you’re stunned in melee range, that is churning earth with it’s FOUR SECOND cast time (why that’s only 1 second less than the maximum available stun duration).

Solution to this “problem” (which isn’t really a problem), use your one stunbreak, move out of melee range, resume beating on him while shocking aura is unavailable for 20+ seconds. Oh, and no one believe you “spoke to a Dev” about this (it appears as if the post in which you insinuated you had has been deleted, for good reason)…

You cannot stunbreak it as you get instantly stuned again. If you ware in melee range after he used Shocking aura, you will eat all 5 seconds of stun+ what he cast on you while you are stuned, unless you use Shadowstep(not like everyonehas it)

Its not about thief vs ele balance. thing is Thief condition build got 3 seconds calltrops on dodge and 14 seconds calltops on ground,
So you set calltrops on ground, ele just march in, and since every puse(1 pulse per second) adds stacks of bleed and criple, it somehow also activate Shocking aura, stuning thief as long as that aura is on. Stunbreaker dont help, as you instantly get stuned again unless you use shadowstep. 5 seconds is enought to die as condition thief has 13500 hp and defences based on dodges(get stuned on dodge) and evades from Death blossom.

You are smoe country bumpkins i read you fought thief with 30 seconds stealth, but, they reduced stealth stack time which is around 15 seconds now.

Second of all, thief atm is ultimate Spvp class, which is decently balanced in Tpvp.

So if you nerf thief in Spvp, in Tpvp thief will be unnecesary class, like warrior, outperformed by other profesions in any role they can go.

And someone mentioned signet of shadows needs nerf, to 10%….
DONT BE RIDICULOUS, thief has no swiftness on demand, if he has only 10% passive movespeed we will be one of the slowest classes ingame.
The only swiftness i have acess to is gained from steal, but not every thief has it, and its main use is after you use it in combat, not in bare running.

And seriously shush about ranger needing better movespeed then it is now. I saw ranger criting 4k from max range on light target. Lets give them best speed so they can keep that range and always hit kittenloads of damage right ?

If you carry Assasins signet Signet of shadows and third slot is stunbreaker so you can spam hearseeker, then you will not have invisiblity. you do understand that

Did some tests, here are the results:

Attacks(steal,CnD,backstab,HS,HS)

Test 1 Old trinket
(5k,5k,12k,4k,7k)

Overal damage= 33000

Test 2 New trinket

(5750,5750,9200,4600,8050)

Overal damage= 33350

No trinket

(5k,5k,8k,4k,7k)

Overal damage 29k

As you see damage increase is about 1%.

However now damage is distributed in whole combo, not in 1 hit of backstab. And i dont count damage increase of 1% as a buff in any case.

I would say, that now more skilled players are awarded more, while less skilled players could call this a nerf, since its harder to pull of 5 sucesfull hits then first 3. I myself find this change a positive thing, as it is usefull in far more builds now, then it was before.

This Arc lets you shoot beeing futher away from walls in WvW whichis very reasonable, to keep it as it is. The projectile movespeed could be increased by 25% however.

And it is not normal AoE, since it hits your target then comes back too you like a boomerang. Look basic ida of it You—-•-•-•→target in between there ware 3 objects that will get hit twice. If too many ppl just jump on 1 spot, i can devastate whole mass of them. These things dont rly happen in Tpvp or Spvp often, but in WvW if 100% working way to abuse it(when i try it works at around 10-20% rate) it could be gamebreaking.

Ok done futher tests on Spvp. This thing trigers not always. However, when it does i see ppl geting downed instantly. And this is Spvp. Now ok lets say warrior master how to do this 100% of time. He go WvW bladetrail> 10 ppl on ground 1 skill turned whole battle.

Well, im used to ppl looking for OP stuff on stealthy classes. I played scout(ranged invis class) rogue(World or rogue craft series tell opinion bout them) Commando( old game BfH invis knifer/sniper). and i always see thoe classes beeing created rly powerfull and well balanced. Then they get overnerfed by a lot, then get buffed back up. It seems stealth classes are never balanced for anyone its either UP or OP

Well, might as well roll a warrior and troll with it for a while in Spvp… i wanna see more warrior rage threads maybe thn they forget thief.

The damage increases with number of targets hit, If you warent running minions build i wouldnt hit more then 5k tops, but thing is… this whole thing is disturbing in mass battle scale. Imagine yourself and all your minions cought up in this aoe and 2-3 more ppl in it get wiped by 1 skill ! 1 skill to rule all aoe if positioned well. If he has fury its close to 100% critical too. even if it dont wipe u 1-2 more aoe from random anyone and you are all down.

Ye did tests myself … and when i managed to hit 12 targets at once i did close to 30k to each(same as backstab combo but aoe on 12 ppl)… o so rly reasuring 1 warrior spin through group of ppl all 5 downed. Much more of a reason to QQ about is this.

You do understand for that he needs to keep melee 130 range… all time since invis is just 3 seconds, so you should be able to him him with ur melee attacks easily.
Also CnD damage on glass is around 6k maximum. While warriors basic greatsword attack(glass too) hits me 2500 or so, and in time i need to restealth he can hit me 3 times for like 7500 damage.

Im not sure how its done, i did not play warrior much but ive seen hits of almost equal damage/

Ye it hits a rly lot, 2day was me against warrior(im glass thief not, backstab but no trinket) im left 11 k hp he has some 20% hp, i see bladetrail im dead… was kind of surprising at first, not to mention its aoe, and instant cast, if cast from melee range. Well, the warrior was running pow/prec/vit could do some 20% more on crit via berserkers.

It works pretty ok as long as you dont focus on 1 type of skills, lets say i use Hide in shadws/basilisks/shadow refuge/roll for initiative/SoS, it has 80% chance to rechange sth. each 45 seconds, which is rly well, However, its very useless as a lot of ppl start battles with steal, which, if you start battle in it lets say with BV used has only 20% chnce to recharge BV.

If i was to change it, i would make it like this :

Reduces cooldowns of all utilitys by 5 seconds.

THis would reduce cooldowns by 5 seconds each 45(31.5 if traited) seconds. This is not OP, however it might be bad in some cases etc, use 20% less traps cooldown(30 becomes 24) then 5 seconds off it and calltrops stay on ground 14 seconds and can be used 5 seconds later after they time out. Maybe not best idea but current trait is useless. Noone likes to depend on luck.

The dude above me pretty much said nailed it.

First of all, it all comes to bunkers, if you can bunker well and keep your points, then it all lays down on better roamers. However if bunkers fail roamers wont fix it, If roamers fail bunkers can still pull it off somehow.

labotimy.2439:

aydenunited.5729:

You won’t get it, Knyx. Facts are not valued on this board, nor do several people know what a fact is… or math.

BTW, I play Engineer and have no problem with Thieves. 1v1 I kill them much more often than they kill me. I’m not saying that to brag, I’m a mediocre to upper-mediocre player, but I’m tired of hearing that only thieves defend thieves. It’s not true… and honestly, I could care less if they get nerfed, I just hate to see an ignorant, mouthy flashmob ever get what they want.

in case you didnt realize due to your serious mental inadequacies, facts have been collected, posted, and dismissed by the thief fanbois.

i may be a mouthy flashmob, but ignorant is doubtful considering I HAVE PLAYED A THIEF in spvp and completely dominated due to its sheer lack of skill requirement and 2 shot capability.

are you going to refute the dozens of 10k+ damage backstab screenshots, or the videos demonstrating 2 shot capabilities of thiefs? didnt think so, bads gonna be bads.

You said it SPVP. Now go Tpvp and tell me how you own all. After that we may talk again, And i dont mean play with premade vs pug which shows nuthing too, play in organied premade vs premade and see efectivness of thief against efectivness of other classes.

As fr myself igot 200 tourament wins and around 600 + games on thief only. I could tell you that in Spvp thief is certainly OP thanks to overal stupidity of masses. People zerg mindlesly, there are next to none defencive specs as you dont need that when running with 8 man zerg. I could undoubedly say 75% of all specs are dps/conditions with n survival.

1 more thing. Someone smart said it before. This us current gw2 balance.

Strong earth<——-Mud<——Well made brick——>mud——>flexible water

There is only burst or bunker, and rly hard to make balanced builds.
If other class cant make good burst as thief maybe he should stop trying and make well balanced one or bunker?
isnt that adaptation to curent situation ?
Once you finaly understand saying all classes can d everything only goes to some extent.
Burst thief better then other burst
Bunker guardian better then ther bunker.
Support engi/ele better then other support.

If it wouldnt be like that whats the point of classes existing,

You know if hammer warrior gets first hit and u got no stunbreaker ur 100% dead.

But thats how it should be doesnt it ? if you got no defence thief instagib u. If u got no condition removal necro own you too, you cant expect to win in all situations withouth having to prepare for them. That beeing said Hammer warrior is not even close to OP as long as you have your stunbreaker up and dont encounter him right out of first fight.

Hello, im gonna give basic introduction into this game Spvp as some people just dont seem to get what is needed, and complain about nonsenses (like the guy who complained he need to take stunbreaker in hammer warrior post).

Ok here is the list of things that you need to do/have.

1. Stunbreaker (You will need it get used to it)

2.Conditions removal (you will need this less then stunbreaker, but its still mandatory)

3.Never start going into your first Spvp with Berserkers or rampagers amulet (this will ruin your first pvp experiances as you wil get nubstomped), get something with lots of survivability for starters.

4.If you need help(lets say thief kill you too easy), go to your class forums, not to the one that killed you, this will give you more help, and less L2P responses.

5. If you did went to forums dont make new rage/troll thread. Look up for ones that exist. Noone likes spammers and each new thread will be taken less seriously then ones before.

Thank you for reading,

I do not care about my writing, if it is perfect or not. I just gave you the formula for counting skill damage. The formula reflects truth that attack damage gained from power, is directly affected by toughness.

If you know how to do basic math’s you understood that allready, since i allready gave you the formula.

Match is (weapeon damage*power*skill coeficient)/armor=damage of skill before aplying traits/crit.

1 power is neglected by 1 toughness easy and simple ok ? no need to make up stupid theories.

Well itself as class mechanics part it sux otherwise, some items stolen are rly crap, i mean sharp tooth, 1 minute bleed low damage, has cast time minimum melee range, hiting it is next to imposible and effect sux if you arent running conditions spec, 10 seconds chill from mage, same cast time + minimum range, hard to set up, rly hard, and effect aint worth it most of time.

The maximum time i can keep my stealth would be around 1 minute, However it invloves blowing utilitys, initiative to keep combo field up and having specified weapeons for it only. Thief invisibility boon stacks, and you get revealed only on usage of skill that does damage or negative effect. However combo fielding invis is more visible then normal since it releases sounds+ keeps showing clouds, as you renew it.

Hounds are pretty decent now, that leap with insane aoe damage, just kitten non champion mobs. If they ware any better i’dd just stop using thiefs guild entirely. Only buff they could get is remove rooting yourself when summoning them, so you can still run.

Well yes in damage side it is same, but think of survival now, if i spam cluster bomb, ill be out of innitiative for anything else, and ill lack survival as my defences will be severely cut down by lack of innitiative, means i need utilitys for defence. Warrior or ele can swap weapeon and fast save utilitys for extra cases, That is the diffrence, why thief will not surprass class like warrior or ele, or sth else in aoe/utility. However if you roll the exactly d/d you have survivability(invis) which also helps your damage. Its a win-win not a win-lose like doing sth like shortbow aoe

Shortbows cluster bomb does around 4k damage and 800 bleed each 1.5 seconds. HB does 20k in 3 seconds or 1.5 seconds with frenzy. So we got 5k aoe damage, warrior got 7k or even like 14k with frenzy. How is that even close?

Next is calltrops, in my opinion best thief conditions damage utility. Realy powerfull can stack up to 1250 damage per second(10 stacks), lasts for 14 seconds. means its around 17500 damage from person standing full duration in calltrops(rly good now compare that to elementalist 600+ damage burns for 25 seconds. Thats 15k damage, prettty much the same. However elementalist at same time can whole party a lot. Thief can spam DB and dodge to keep themselfes alife only.

Thief can aoe stealth, keep perma poison and share venoms making party laking in conditions more powerfull on that side, however:

1. It will not outheal elementalist or guardian, or even engineer.
2. It will not give as much utility as elementalists combo fields, mesmer with all aoe buffs or/and guardian.
3. It will not dish out even close damage to warriors,elementalists AoE.
4. It will not give as many buffs(or long lasting ones) for party as Elementalist, or warhorn warrior/ranger.
5.It can innitiaite/disengage battles better then anyone.
6. It can deal damage on par(if not better) with warriors/engineers bursts if i count damage done.

Logicaly, ppl hone their strenghts futher instead of, reducing the weakness of your class.

Atrixer.9275:

Oxygen.5918:

press V

15 char

. Steal/mug does around 5-7k crits so when I dodge away it’s bam, right back in my race again.

Don’t even get me started on trick shot spam.

arent you kindda glassy ? mug(steal) hits 6k on pure glass cannon only

Played thief summoning build with traps, and thiefs guild and venoms share, its pathethicly insanely good at some situations and at other ones its realy realy bad as your adds are ccable and not smart enough to move out of AoE’s so all 3-4 thiefs you have summoned at a time sometimes die in 1 aoe, decreasing your damage by half at least. Out of dungeons it works nicely, and you can dominate any type of mob, however even if it makes things easier, the actaul time of getting experiance is slower, as you need to wait for cds, for max effect. I would rate this build not on par with others.

The actaul damage from skill coeficient table is (glass build)
2040×952.5×2.405/3200=1460.36109375 damage w/o crit traits.

Crit adds 110% damage to it, in glass build. signet adds 58% traits add 5% and 20% raw damage 7% to crit frim behind. Making it into +25% extra raw damage. Ok now based on calculation—→ Summing up, 146025% damage will be 1825 Crit rate multiplier is +110% of damage. Its 1825*2.10=3832 damage. Adding 50% damage into the summed damage from signet is 3832×1.5=5748damage. I think your puzle with no knowladge of damage calculations is solved. Its 5748 not some imaginary 13k damage. If you are in WvW this damage of 5748 can be futher boosted by around 20% damage and 10% more critical damage. Resulting in 7588 damage in WvW. I forgot to add 3 stacks of varnuability though so its +3% damage
Its 7816, with 5 stacks of might and 3 stacks of vurnuability. Ok taking in mind most bursty spec atm ingame can have 21 stack of might could potentialy boost the damage by 16×35/3200 about 14% more.

7816×1.14=8910 damage from backstab at WvW against 3200 armor.

YET, this is maximum damage presumption, with idea, thief blew all 3 utilitys+ healing signet on that 1 strike. Knowing steal hits 2k and CnD hits 2k too at that armor, tottal combo could maximum chain 13k, once again at perfect conditions for thief, with 21 might stack and 100% crit rate which is imposible. If you need more info, I will answer your damage scaling questions in forum showing players who ask for nerfs know nuthing of damage calculations.

Tulisin.6945:

Mirtis.6847:

So i was just making sure but here’s something interesting about the numbers of Condition removers per profession
Thief: 2

Weapon skills – Shadow Return from Infiltrator’s Strike
Heal Skills – Hide in Shadows cures damage-based conditions, Withdraw cures movement-based conditions
Utility skills – Shadow Return from shadow step, Signet of Agility, Roll for Iniative for movement-based conditions.

More like six condition removal skills, three of which are general, two of which only cure movement-based conditions, and the last of which only cures damage-based conditions. Plus whatever is available from traits.

Furthermore, the reason elementalists have so many methods of burning is that burning stacks in duration and is meant to be applied repeatedly to build up burning time. The proper response is to blow condition removal when several burning skills have been stacked, instead of immediately following a short-term burn.

Backstab users use Assasins signet(dont remove stuff) Signet of shadows(+ movespeed so we can position ourselfes for backstab and mostly shadowstep(removes 1 condition on returning to previous place… means when we are running using it while on offence is kitten as you make a gap yourself, instead of closing it, gl going for backstab in range if u doint have steal or some way to go invis to clear distance.

YOu do understand we stealth with our melee hit ? and to get in range of 900 we need to go in close enuf not beeing invisible. Our invisibiity start after we steal(shadowstep to you from 900 range) then invis then backstab, which is clearly noticable unless you are ocupied in a battle. anyways 1200 toughness on light class is like what ?2100 armor ? which is still rly low but w/e im bored with justifying backstab, it does right ammount of damage as it should however signet is the problem, as its only usefull in only backstab build, and i dont mind changing it.

Stacks of might, orbs, and such add power not crit dmg which made last calculation not true, anyways you dont even need to check anything. 18.5 armor is around 1% damage reduction, you can see that too, test steady weapeons. and see damage scaling is equal to armor diffrencex20 per 1% decreased damage. however not fully 20 its close to 19. however im not sure how armor scales as linear or hyperbolic or what other type of function.

swiftness is 33% AND on ele works better i think 40% or sth.

People act like trash you know why ?
yday i met a guy, he was playing warrior but he said his char was crap and thiefs are OP.
i asked him why you think like that.
He said, maybe warrior outdoes thief in some places, however i like getting kills, it feels unfair when thief can so much outperform other classes in killing others.
I beleave that is mass opinion in this game.
You only care about killing people, and not actual balance. Thats where arguments thiefs are OP comes.

From basic asumtions 1000 armor gives you 50% damage reduction, 1000 power gives you 100% more damage(not exactly, but values are not too far) so 200% damage i get reduced by 50% from armor is same 100% attack damage. You completely neglect my power stacking, as its inefective.

OK basic facts, 18.5armor-1% reduced damage. If i cna burst 29k on basic light armor(1836) incrasing armor to 3k, reduces damage by (3000-1836)/18.5= 62.91% making my burst around to 10k damage(if all attacks crit)
with 3300 armor damage reduction is 79.13%. Now lets count, make that 29k into 30 so its easier.
30000x(100-79.13)=6300 of burst. Ok if you use scholars runes add 10% damage if you think you bursted w/o taking any damage. thats 7k damage, with full burst . Now make calculations yourself, after you got basic armor damage reduction value and know burst on 1836 armor(light armor value) to see if i can burst someone with balanced gear.

Anxiety.2054:

So you made a point to say its a 270% crit dmg build yet only showed non-crit dmg and then based your conclusion on it? Here I’ll finish your test for you.

- Backstab -
On 3200 armor backstab will hit for 3855 damage and crit for 14,263
On 3000 armor backstab will hit for 4112 damage and crit for 15,214
On 2800 armor backstab will hit for 4406 damage and crit for 16,302
On 2600 armor backstab will hit for 4745 damage and crit for 17,556
On 2400 armor backstab will hit for 5140 damage and crit for 19,018
On 2200 armor backstab will hit for 5608 damage and crit for 20,749
On 2000 armor backstab will hit for 6168 damage and crit for 22,821

I ate a 13.3k backstab today yet your numbers don’t go above 6.1k?

its not 270% unless you know nuthing of gw2 critical hit match its 150%x% of players crit rate. max available is 72% stacked critical damage makin it 222% critical not 270. You can now lower all damages by 20% plus, thats maximum hit cap, average hit cap is around 10-15% lower too. Meaning. on 1800 armor maximum hit will be, around 14k. While at 3000 armor hit will be at best 7k. However once again, this includes,10% factor that you got conditions, and 10% more that thief got 6 innitiative, if thief plays 30/30/0/0/10 thief will have 10% less damage as after CnD you will have 6 innitiative exactly which dont add 10% extra. Meaning maximum hit on 1800 armor is 12600 on 3000 armor its 6300. Trinket can boost damage by 50%= 19000 on 1800 armor and 9.5k on 3000 armor. Which is maximum possible damage of a thief bursting you 1on1 in WvW. in Spvp make numbers 10%-15% lesser. BS on 1800 armor would be 15k(you deserve it for walking nakad as a light user) and 8500 on heavy with using signet+ BV to ensure the hit.
Is it possible to 3 hit someone on another glass cannon ? Yes it is.

Can you instant burst anyone on 3000 armor ? Straight face imposible. Thx to tests i can burst the target for 13k tottal damage(if all hits crit) and if target dont evade anything. Since crit rate i took is 50% we will ussualy pull of 75% of shown damage.

That is CnD steal and BS will tottaly do around 10k burst to full tanky person. Managing he has 0 defencive traits. which reduce damage or activate protection or sth else. It is straightly imposible And there is still 10% extra critical rate added from WvW which i forgot to reduce tottal damage by 5%. The whole idea is ppl who make nonsense facts, Btw made tests with full toughness myself too. Maximum combo with assasins signet on 3300 armor was, 7600 damage. You can say its still a lot however i just blew my 2 utilitys, elite skill and 50% of innitiative, You survived only by having hight toughness. i cant burst 2nd time like that for 40 seconds andwhen i can i still cant burst you down.

Characters of that type, who put out high damage and dodge most incoming attacks, but go down quickly if they do get hit, are sometimes called “Glass Ninja.”

This is how i imagine thief atm. Its dodgy glass cannon 2-3 hit if you manage to hit.

Calysto.7469:

Anxiety, was the thief who did that a female human running around more than likely solo? I’ve just transferred to N. Shiverpeaks and trying out a backstab build, and while I do feel sorta dirty, I’ve set it up so I can perform more than one role, and I rarely use Heartseeker. Thieves are more or less meant to be a burst class, but when it comes to zerg on zerg action, we lose a lot of our intended purpose to aoe spam. Shortbow does a decent job of helping with that, albeit at a shorter range than most others. I normally run a condition build with dagger/pistol when doing zerg stuff, but using this backstab build I threw together for small group/solo’ing.

I want to see condition dagger/pistol … i rly do… since its only condition damage is from dagger basic attack.