Guild Wars 2

This wouldn’t take anything away from the Engineer class. People need to actually read the OP’s post before responding.

The OP suggests ADDING (note: there is no subtraction in addition) the ability to place a kit in our second weapon slot. This would give us an ADDITIONAL slot for a kit, without taking away our ability to equip kits in our utility slots, as we do now.

I’m all for it, personally. Engineers are at a disadvantage in PvP while taking kits, since kits limit our ability to take stun breakers (not the only problem with multi-kit loadouts, but it’s probably the most glaring and easy to fix.) If we could choose to take a single kit in our offhand slot, losing the toolbelt skill for that kit and giving that kit a weapon swap cooldown, but keeping a utility slot open, many Engineers would make that trade.

-Travail.

Hmm, weird. I could have sworn I was stacking 2 Might per thrown elixir before. Ah well, question answered.

I’ve been away for a little while, and have only logged in today to see the state of the Engineer post-patch.

It seems that the tossed version of each Elixir is giving only 1 stack of Might per use, while the main utility is giving 2 stacks per use. Every Elixir, including tossed versions, used to give 2 stacks (unless my memory has completely failed me.)

Was this change intentional?

-Travail.

Probably the last time I felt like a classic version of an “Engineer” was while leveling at lower levels, trying to use turrets. After I switched to bombs/grenades, I really didn’t feel like I was putting any cool inventions into play anymore.

Maybe if I had a little screen where I had to “craft” my explosives and elixirs, like WoW Rogues craft poisons, that might help. I’d then be periodically reminded that these are “my” explosives and elixirs, made by my own hand.

It might also help if we could see the kits/gadgets we have on us, even when we aren’t in that kit (IE., seeing the flamethrower or EG strapped to your back, always having grenades hanging off your backpack even when you’re not actually in the grenade kit, actually wearing goggles when we take the Utility Goggles, etc.) as opposed to the Hammerspace effect we have now where we just pull anything we need from behind our back.

-Travail.

I like my Asura, personally. The inventor/scientist story was a perfect fit, and it makes sense that a small race would rely on gadgets and inventions to turn them into formidable opponents.

As for the worst choices, I think the Sylvari and Norn stories would be awkward to play through as an Engineer. The Norn story begins with you proving yourself in battle (something tells me hiding behind turrets would be frowned upon in such a scenario) and the Sylvari seem much too innocent (especially your character, who is newly awakened) to be focused on creating weapons of destruction.

-Travail.

We already know we are very likely going to see a nerf in the next patch containing class balance changes. We should all be prepared for that.

ANet has specifically stated that their next big balance issue is AoE damage versus single target. They see too many players using AoE skills even in 1v1 fights, because the damage of AoE attacks is too comparable to single target attacks. They are either going to reduce the damage of AoE, or increase the damage of single target attacks.

How many attacks does the Engineer have that aren’t AoE?

Circles
Cones
Rebounding
Piercing

Those are all forms of AoE. It doesn’t look good for us.

-Travail.

Hmm… So, no more Jump Shot → Grenade Barrage burst, I guess…

Good bye, gimmicky but effective build. You will be missed.

-Travail.

No kits in a bunker build? Well, I’m always up for a challenge…

sPvP turret bunker Engi:

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mVMzM9Mz0oMwvMMMwrMG0GffVsokmM08kiB7khT7070z7kiB707kIV70V7owY

The main traits are Accelerant-Packed Turrets and Static Discharge. With 3 turrets, you have 3 AoE knockbacks for repeatedly clearing capture points (and a 4th which comes on the shield.) Because both the turret detonation skills and the regular Toolbelt skills for turrets will trigger Static Discharge, each turret slot gives you 2 Static Discharges back-to-back, if you follow the detonation immediately with the Toolbelt Skill. While Static Discharge is a little buggy right now with skills which are not single-target, this trait still provides good synergy with a turret build. It is far less buggy when you are close to your intended target, and this build will be up-close and personal.

With Elixir R, you have a stun breaker, and a self/ally rez. Because of the Inertial Converter trait (Toolbelt skill recharge at 25% health) you are free to use Elixir R’s Toolbelt skill on an ally, or to cure conditions from yourself, then use it again just before you die to rez yourself.

Other than that, the traits are fairly obvious. Self-Regulating Defenses is a pretty standard bunker trait, as are Reinforced Shield and Cloaking Device.

Melandru Runes because you only have a single stun breaker, and it’s on a long cooldown. Sigil of Purity helps with condition removal, which you may find yourself lacking at times (if you’ve already detonated your healing turret for a knockback.) Sigil of Accuracy helps out Sigil of Purity.

You won’t be as tough to kill as some other classes, or an Engi traited for kits, but you’ll be good at keeping a point clear of enemies, and can sometimes cap points for your team while being outnumbered by the enemy, simply through repeatedly knocking enemies off the point. This makes the build suited for both assaulting and defending points.

-Travail.

It’s an interesting take on a kit-based FT build, rather than the standard HGH might stacking builds.

My concern is that this build would seriously lack damage output. Seems almost a waste to sit in the FT kit, when you could be hopping between the Toolkit and Rifle, probably dealing more damage while opening up that utility slot.

-Travail.

Yeah, Backpack Regenerator needs to go in favor of HGH. Running 20 stacks of might (a full 25 stacks if you use some +boon duration gear) is a huge damage bonus to the build.

Also, the vulnerability from Precise Sights lasts for no more than 1 second or so. I’m not a fan of that trait at all. You could use Sitting Duck instead, and Net Shot every 10 seconds would net you just as many vulnerability stacks, but instantly and more reliably than counting on random chance. You should be using Net Shot often, anyway.

If you’re not planning on switching to your rifle for Net/Overcharged Shots, then equip a pistol/shield and give yourself access to a second weapon sigil and the shield abilities for emergencies.

Lastly, you have zero stun breakers. If you’re planning to use the build in PvP, I’d be switching out Elixir U for S. Even in PvE, I personally like to have a single stun breaker.

-Travail.

SpaceCowboy.1398:

As far as Elixir S is concerned, I’m Asura and the camera totally bugs out with Elixir S.

Again, thanks for the advice, please keep it coming! Choosing the right stats worries me the most, as traits are a quick and easy change… gear is not!

I’m an Asura, too. I’ve learned to live with the Elixir S camera, because it’s such a good skill. It’s in every build I’ve used for the past few months, either the utility or Self-Regulating Defenses. :P

-Travail.

Anymras.5729:

Part of the benefit of the Backpack Regenerator and Dolyak Rune bonuses, in my opinion, is that they’re not a boon at all – they’re just an untyped recovery property that can’t be taken away, only counteracted. They also stack with other healing effects, like Regeneration or other untyped recovery properties.

Exactly. These only offer small healing amounts, because they are able to be stacked with the actual regeneration boon, and can’t be removed with boon stripping abilities. If these types of abilities were stronger, it would marginalize the regeneration boon.

-Travail.

For a true one-hit wonder, take Utility Goggles and Elixir U instead of Elixir S and Toolkit. Faster burst, and immunity to blind.

Analyze → Goggles → Net Shot → U → Jump Shot → Barrage → grenade kit swap → Blunderbuss → Overcharged Shot.

Then throw Elixir U and pray for stealth.

-Travail.

If you want to use only the EG, and your focus is WvW, here’s my take on your build:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-VRw;0B-sP-h0s5gTFx0;9;5J-TJ;137;206853-LN1;0J;0TsW6TsW69cH

1. I took Kit Refinement. It’s worth it for the double Super Elixir alone. I took the points out of explosives, because that lacked the most synergy with the rest of the build.

2. I chose Elixir R instead of C. It’s a self-rez or ally rez, breaks stuns, and refills endurance. You don’t really need Elixir C, as Super Elixir cleanses (as does Med Kit, which is also now in the build.)

3. I chose Med Kit instead of Elixir H. Without Elixir specific traits, Med Kit is definitely the better healing slot. It provides a poor man’s version of both Elixir C (now gone from the build) and another source of fury to make up for your low crit chance, and offers more synergy with your kit traits (instead of cycling in/out of EG, you cycle between EG and Med Kit to keep 100% swiftness.)

4. As a rule of thumb, any time I run with a kit (which is… all the time?) I take both Speedy Kits and Invigorating Speed. The combo is just too good to pass up. I took Invigorating Speed in place of Protection Injection, because I’d rather keep Backpack Regenerator. I’d take out Deadly Mixture, but you said you like “melting faces,” so you might want to keep it.

5. As far as what’s listed on that site, I took Melandru runes. Your build had no stun breakers, and the one I posted only has a single stun breaker. Stun reduction will be important, and a reduction in condition duration is a nice bonus. With this build, however, I’d very likely take Runes of Altruism. Simply swapping to Med Kit counts as a “healing skill,” and you are naturally swapping often to keep up 100% swiftness/vigor.

Note: I would also personally take Elixir S instead of B, especially with the Med Kit equipped (gives you Fury, which is the main benefit of Elixir B in a build without high precision) but when offering suggestions for other player’s builds, I like to try to only swap out what I feel is essentially important. Elixir S is pretty nice, as an auto-stomper and another stun breaker, but if you want a more balanced build between offense and defense, B is a fine choice. If you don’t take Elixir R, definitely take Elixir S. You want at least one stun breaker in PvP.

-Travail.

Tabula Rasa made a very capable turret class. The game itself had many faults, but it’s turrets were great.

The Engineer in TR could deploy 5 turrets at once, plus multiple spherical shields (as large as GW2’s capture points) to protect them, plus they had a tool which healed armor, which applied to turrets and acted as an AoE cone heal (other classes also had the same tool, which could also heal your turrets if I’m not mistaken.)

The turrets themselves fired very quickly, and each could both crit, and apply special effects when it crit (based on its damage type. Sonic criticals knocked back, etc.) Their targeting, while not perfect, was adequate and a far cry better than the turret targeting in GW2, and their fast fire meant they could miss a shot or two without too much to worry about. They had no cooldown, and no cast time (though after you placed them, it took 1 second for them to pop up.) They could also be set up anywhere within 20 meters of your toon. This was all stock, no traits required (you had to level up the “turret” skill to gain access to all 5 turrets, that is all.)

You also had access to “traps,” which were fake turrets which dealt only minimal damage, but exploded for extreme damage when destroyed. They looked identical to turrets, and had a high aggro coefficient (drawing mobs away from your other turrets.) While dealing almost no damage, they could still crit on each attack for special effects, just like turrets. You could have a possible 5 different traps (which dealt different damage types) but only one could be placed at a time. Like turrets, they had no cooldown.

In GW2, we see a stark contrast in almost every way. We can only take a maximum of 3 turrets, which sacrifices everything else, even the ability to heal them with the Toolkit. Our turrets fire very slowly. We have no way to protect them from damage. They are placed at our feet unless we take a specific trait. Our turrets deal significantly less damage. The targeting of turrets in GW2 is far inferior. Our turrets have long cooldowns.

The life of the turrets is about the same (TR’s turrets were slightly beefier) but the Engineer class was specifically designed to protect them, with armor heals, protective barriers, and “traps” to taunt with. This offered a lot of synergy that is lacking with the GW2 Engineer.

This also allowed you to be a support character (the shields and armor repair tool affected players as well as turrets) while simultaneously using turrets. With the Engineer, we must commit fully to turrets, and yet they are worse in every way to TR turrets. Let me also assure everyone that turrets were in no way overpowered in Tabula Rasa. The damage of the 5 turrets plus the player weapon was balanced well against the damage output of other classes.

-Travail.

Personally, I’d never PvP without a stun breaker, or some way to get Stability. For the Engineer, the only way to get Stability is Throw Elixir S, which comes with a stun breaker on Elixir S.

I always take either Elixir S or Elixir R in PvP. With one, you’re getting a stun breaker, invulnerability auto-stomp, and a chance at Stability. With the other, you’re getting a stun breaker, extra dodges, and an auto-rez for yourself or others.

IMO, either of those is more powerful than any third kit, especially without taking any of the traits for that kit (and how could you, already traiting for 2 kits and a main weapon?)

-Travail.

This, coupled with allowing us to choose Toolbelt skills independently of utilities (which they’d really have no choice but to do) could be a good change for the Engineer.

The five turrets all in one kit could be good, since even having 5 turrets out at once isn’t all that threatening the way they are, now. This would allow us to take multiple turrets along with the Wrench, and still have a utility slot open for a stun breaker in PvP. This would definitely help PvP turret specs.

A Gadget Kit could also be ok, but you have to realize that the damage of each gadget would have to be nerfed. No way ANet gives the Engineer 3 knockbacks on the same utility, while letting us deal any decent damage with that kit. Personally, I’d take that tradeoff. Every gadget in a single kit, but have them deal only token damage (keep a damage number associated with them so they can proc our “on hit” effects.)

Elixirs would be problematic. If they did that with Elixirs, they’d have to completely rebalance them. With an Elixir kit, you’d have Elixirs B, C, R, S, and U, all taking up only one utility slot. Ignoring their Toolbelt skills, that’s still 5 attacks which can all be traited to cleanse conditions; which all provide powerful buffs; and many of which have other effects (restoring endurance, granting invulnerability, etc.) That would, hands down, be the single best utility slot in the entire game. They’d have to nerf every single Elixir to balance that.

Perhaps they could provide the 5 Toolbelt Elixir skills as a single kit? Then move Elixirs up to the Toolbelt? So, essentially, you’d be able to take Elixirs in place of Toolbelt skills, and then be able to take all of the current Toolbelt Elixirs at the same time (it would basically be an “Elixir throwing kit.”) That would be the only way I could see Elixirs working as a kit, without needing major rebalancing.

-Travail.

—
“Turn up the Good, turn down the Suck!”
-FUBAR.
—

No need to edit that one.

And a little something I’ve been working on:

—
(Set to the tune of ‘Modern Major-General’s Song’)

I am the very ideal of ‘Extreme Versatility’.
I’ve ways to spec in crowd control and kits and high mobility.
When I immobilize you I apply vulnerability,
And then I knock you over again and again incessantly.

My weapon doesn’t have the range the name of ‘rifle’ might suggest.
It’s really more a shotgun but it does its job; I won’t protest.
Oh, sure the Warrior with his can snipe me from a great distance,
But if you play it right the Engi’s rifle really can impress.

It’s difficult to cope with my complete lack of Stability,
But if I take Elixirs I stack other boons increasingly.
In short in matters crowd control and kits and high mobility,
I am the very ideal of ‘Extreme Versatility’.
—

-Travail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y

The video speaks for itself.

-Travail.

Slick Shoes in action.

Not a quote, really… but here’s one for ya:

—
Engi are you ok?
So, Engi are you ok?
Are you ok, Engi?
You’ve Been Hit By-
You’ve Been Struck By-
Extreme Versatility.
—

-Travail.

Whatya gonna do? Nice Rifle Engineer, eh? Don’t wanna get mixed up in melee business? Now you wanna gun down a Guardian because he bashed you in the face a little bit, huh? Whataya think this class is, the Warrior, where you shoot ’em a mile away? You gotta get up close like this… badaBING! you blow their brains all over your nice Priory suit.

(The Godfather)

-Travail.

Was having trouble keeping this one PG. :P

—
Engineer: Ele, I been havin a tough night so treat me nice, aight?

Elementalist14: Aight.

Engineer: Swap out of that attunement baby, yeah.

Elementalist14: I swap out of my attunement, just for you, Engi.

Engineer: Oh yeah, aight. Aight, I equip my Slick Shoes and Utility Goggles.

Elementalist14: Oh, I like to play dress up.

Engineer: Me too baby.

Elementalist14: I heal you lightly with a water field.

Engineer: I cast Net Shot. You are immobilised.

Elementalist14: Hey…

Engineer: I cast Magnet to pull you in, before casting Box of Nails to cripple you.

Elementalist14: Funny I’m still not injured.

Engineer: I then cast Prybar to the face.

Elementalist14: You are the worst leveling partner ever. This is ridiculous.

Engineer: Don’t kitten with me kitten, I’m the mightiest Engineer of the lands.

Engineer: I Analyze yo soul and use Static Discharge for 1,000,000. Your body explodes into a fine bloody mist, because you are only a glass cannon Ele.

Elementalist14: Don’t ever message me again you piece of kitten.

Engineer: Golems are trying to drill my brain but my Static Shield inflicts stun and I place Big ol’ Bomb, leaving the robots as flaming piles of metal.

Engineer: Queen Jenna congratulates me for destroying Toymaker Tixx’s evil army of Robot Socialist Republics. Wintersday ends. Zojja steals my accomplishments and makes like it was cause of her.

Engineer: You still there, Ele?

Engineer: Ele?

(BloodNinja)

(It’s late, or I’d try to do the rest of his epic chats.)

-Travail.

Boondock Saints incoming!

—
Their happy now, just nerfing our specs one by one. And worse, their good at it.

—
Engineer, in response to class description:
kittenin’- What the kittenin’.. kitten.. Who the kitten kittened this kittening… How did you kittening kittens… kitten!

—
(points at Rifle Warrior) Good shooting, (points at Flamethrower Engi) kitteny shooting.

—
This guy takes a blunt object, kittenin’, waam! Nerfs the Engineer with the already poor damage output, right? Why? ‘Cause he’s smart. He knows the Engineer with the already poor damage output, he ain’t goin’ nowhere. He’s goin’… kittenin’… nowhere.

Where you goin’? Nowhere!
(Because we all love this class, despite itself.)

—
Engi 1: Do ya know what we need, man? Some turrets.
Engi 2: Absolutely… -What are ya, insane?
Engi 1: No I ain’t. The TF2 Engi’s always got a turret.
Engi 2: What?
Engi 1: Yeah. He’s got a big ol’ turret placed on the defensive point, and he always ends up using it.
Engi 2: You’ve lost it, haven’t ya?
Engi 1: No, I’m serious.
Engi 2: Me too. That’s stupid. Name one thing you’re gonna be able to kill with turrets.
Engi 1: You don’t kittenin’ know what you’re gonna kill with them. They just always bring ‘em.
Engi 2: What’s this ‘they’ kitten? This isn’t TF2, and our turrets suck.
Engi 1: Oh, right. (spots flamethrower kit in Engi 2’s loadout)
Engi 1: Is that right, Pyro?
Engi 2: All right. Take your stupid kittenin’ turrets.
Engi 1: I’ll take my stupid turrets. I’ll take ’em. Those are some turrets, right there.

—
And Grenadiers we shall be,
For thee, ANet, for thee.
Power hath descended forth from thy hand,
To take away our other weapons’ ability to carry out our commands.
So we shall throw explosives forth for thee,
And teeming with QQ rage, shall we ever be.
In kitteny kitty, Et kitten, Et kittenus kitty.

—
And some of the great ones that don’t require edits:

" Is it dead?"

“Can’t do much damage with that then, can we?”

XD

-Travail.

ANet: You’re a hybrid, you’re really versatile. You’re really versatile.

Engineer: …What do you mean I’m versatile?

ANet: You’re versatile, you know. You’ve got a Toolbelt, it’s versatile, you’re a versatile class.

Engineer: What do you mean, you mean the way I can’t take kits and stun breakers at the same time? What?

ANet: It’s just, you know. You’re just versatile, it’s… versatile, the way you swap kits and everything.

Engineer: (angry) Versatile how? What’s versatile about me?

Elementalist: Engi, no, You got it all wrong-

Engineer: He’s a big boy, he knows what he said. What did ya say? Versatile how?

ANet: Jus…

Engineer: What?

ANet: Just… ya know… you’re versatile.

Engineer: You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it’s me, I’m a little noob maybe, but I’m versatile how? I mean versatile like I have CC, I CC you? I make you crippled, I’m here to kittening BLIND you? What do you mean versatile, versatile how? How am I versatile?

ANet: Just… you know, how you can have lots of attacks, what?

Engineer: No no, I DON’T know, you said it. How do I know? You said I’m versatile. How the kitten am I verastile, what the kitten is so versatile about me!? Tell me, tell me what’s versatile!

ANet: (pauses, laughs) Get the kitten out of here, Engi!

Engineer: (laughs) Ya ANet! I almost had you, I almost had you. Ya ya. Hey Ele, was he shaking? I wonder about you sometimes, ANet. You may fold under QQ threads.

Goodfellas (1990)

- Travail.

The only advantage I see here is that we could use the rifle or pistol auto-attack while using grenades and bombs, allowing us to automatically hit with an auto-attack in between throwing explosives 2-5.

While that does offer some advantages (I’d still want to keep bomb 1 and grenade 1 accessible to me) we have to factor in that you have now removed the Toolbelt skills. No more Big Bomb, and no more Grenade Barrage. That’s a change for the worse, IMO.

As for other kits, there is no advantage at all. We can swap kits instantly and without cooldown. This system may be easier to manage for someone who has trouble keeping track of all of their skills, and finds it hard to swap in and out of kits under pressure. That’s not a reason to change the mechanic, though. People who don’t get flustered can already use kits exactly how the OP describes, and we get to keep our Toolbelt skills.

This system does not address the primary problem with kits (that they take up utility slots) and it takes away all of our Toolbelt skills. I’m not a fan of that. I’d rather them move the kits from the utility slots up to the Toolbelt, and move all the Toolbelt skills down to the utilities section, so we can take a wider variety of kits+utilities overall.

-Travail.

Honestly, Elixir R probably shouldn’t rez us in the first place (it’s one of the Toolbelt skills that is way too strong to be only 1/4 of our Toolbelt.) I would have no problem with the devs removing the ability of Elixir R to rez it’s user. It wouldn’t be a very popular change, I’m sure.

-Travail.

Oh, I smell a meme coming on.

::Tosses Elixir V::

Gained word “Sarchasm”
(The divide between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn’t get it.)

:D

-Travail.

Seems to me someone is trying to make Slick Shoes a meme. I think I missed whatever epic joke spawned this effort, somewhere along the way.

-Travail.

Hmm, seems to me the word “Engineer” is not synonymous with “sniper” or “long range”. In fact, most engineers in other games use short range weapons like hammers, wrenches, pistols, and shotguns.

All I’m saying is, if you created an Engineer with the expectation that he’d be a sniper, that’s on you. There was no logical reason to assume the class would have any long range specs, and to my knowledge, no official description of the class describes it as a long range combatant.

I’m happy with the rifle as it is (bugs notwithstanding.) This class is a medium range skirmisher, and the rifle fits with that design theme.

-Travail.

Clip.6845:

First of all, I’ll summarize what I meant again:
1) don’t compare class mechanics as a standalone aspect & don’t compare utilities as a standalone aspect; classes are balanced as a whole, not per category. When comparing, you have to compare traits, damage, usefulness, combinations, …
2) there ’s much more difference than sheer skill numbers
3) compared to kits, warrior banners are weak as weapons

Secondly,
If we had a kit on F1 and a kit on F2 (I assume it would be from a drop-down list and not stuck with default ones?, which would btw be a real hassle to do and is never going to happen), IF, then we would become OP compared to other professions.
2 kits + 3 utilities is insanely OP. They would have to balance the whole class again and do that so hard it would get a different playstyle altogether because of all the possible new combinations. Then a whole new kittenstorm of unhappy engineers would start. It’s not providing a solution, it’s creating a new problem.

-Clip (few, almost forgot to put my name at the end, would you have known it was me otherwise? :p)

If we had 2 kits and our primary weapon, that would be 15 attacks. Here’s how the other classes break down:

- The Elementalist has 4 attunements (and no “default weapon slots”) for a total of 20 attacks.
- Guardians have 3 Virtues as their F-mechanic. 2 weapons plus the 3 Virtues is 13 attacks.
- The Mesmer has 2 weapon slots and 4 Shatter abilities, for a total of 14 attacks.
- The Necromancer has 2 weapon slots and 4 Death Shroud attacks, for a total of 14 attacks.

You’re telling me 15 attacks would make us “insanely OP”? Come on, now. Only the Warrior and Thief are left out of this party. And it’s not like our kits, themselves, are overpowered.

Balance the whole class again? Completely different playstyle? Lots of “maybe’s” and “would be’s” in your post, without much to substantiate them. All of the current useful Engi builds (TankCat, Static Discharge, Rifle burst, HGH chugging, might stacking FT, Grenades, EIB/EG support) remain intact.

-Travail.

Lots of good suggestions here, but I still think the cleaner way to change the Toolbelt is to make the Toolbelt the place for our kits.

The suggestions in this thread are along the lines of:

- allowing us to pick Toolbelt abilities independently of utilities.
- allowing us to equip gadgets in our Toolbelt.

These are both accomplished by moving kits up to the Toolbelt. Give us 2 kits slots up there (and leave the healing slot up there as well, since our heals are balanced around it), and then let us have our 3 utility slots.

Move all of the current Toolbelt skills down to the utilities section, rename them gadgets, and change any trait that affects the “Toolbelt” to affect “gadgets.” Now, Static Discharge would go off when you used any gadget, and our “Toolbelt recharge reduction” from traiting into Tools would actually now affect all gadgets. This would provide a nice little boost to existing gadgets by allowing their recharge to be reduced, and leave the previous Toolbelt skills completely unchanged.

This negatively effects Elixir builds which use Formula 409 and HGH, so the next step would be to make all Elixirs able to be tossed, have Formula 409 cleanse 2 conditions instead of one, and allow HGH to stack 3 or 4 stacks of might per Elixir instead of the current 2 stacks. You make these traits twice as effective to account for the fact that you can only equip half the Elixirs you used to be able to equip.

I say give us 2 kits slots only, because honestly I feel like having 3 slots for kits on the Toolbelt would be too powerful. It would allow any Engineer, even those specializing in Elixirs, pistols, or rifles, to take an additional 15 bonus attacks. That’s too much. 2 kits, I feel, strikes a nice balance. Yes, we can no longer equip 3 kits. Most of us didn’t before, anyway, so there’s not much lost, there. The additional versatility and strength granted to us from being able to take a full 3 utilities/turrets alongside 2 kits more than makes up for the loss of that 3rd kit slot.

The end result is, all Engineers can now take a main-hand weapon plus 2 kits, completely independent of our utilities. Our utilities, then, are free to be customized any way we want. We also gain a nice little boost to our gagdets, since they are now affected from the recharge reduction in the Tools trait line (and can trigger static discharge), and Elixirs also get a buff, since all of them could now be thrown.

-Travail.

It would be interesting if hitting enemies with Elixirs gave them random conditions, in addition to causing their small bit of damage. Keeping the damage component would allow Elixirs to still proc our “on crit” effects against affected enemies, which I believe is why that trait is there to begin with.

Elixirs grant random boons to us. Afflicting the enemy with random conditions would keep with the flavor of the abilities.

-Travail.

Clip.6845:

I follow all your points but I don’t see how it makes the engineer lackluster, engineer has no cooldown on his kits, has the choice to equip 0, 1, 2 or 3 kits and can feely choose which one to use. An ele can’t go back to his original atunement for 15s (default) and can’t swap out one attunement for another.
It’s generally a pretty bad idea to try to compare other professions with the engineer. It’s a totally different style.
And the fact you are even comparing warrior banners to kits makes you’re whole discussion pretty lame imo. Banners are weak compared to any weapon, the only thing they are good for is short duration buffs and some movement between fights.

Atlantis makes sense in his post, you don’t travail.

PS: for me the engineer’s kits aren’t about versatility, it’s about freedom and choice. People who only look at it on paper tend to forget the 1s cooldown, the kit’s skills cooldowns, the practical use of all the skills, etc. They are just too hung up on number of available skills.

We can’t compare our own class to others? I’m glad the devs don’t share that sentiment, as comparing classes is the only way to balance them. More to the point, comparing individual specs across classes.

Other players talk about versatility as if we are the only class to receive a huge number of attacks, due to our kits. In truth, this is not a mechanic which is unique to kits, and so our “versatility” by virtue of our high number of attacks is overrated.

As to banners, they all grant AoE swiftness, 2 of them grant AoE fury, and each and every one of them is a blast finisher when planted. All the while granting passive, AoE, buffs. Yeah, that sounds pretty terrible. I didn’t mean to use them as a damaging weapon, in the same way I don’t use the EG or the Medkit as damaging weapons. That doesn’t make them useless, or sub-par.

As to the Toolbelt, the point I was trying to make about our Toolbelt is that it’s a bit of a joke as a main class mechanic. Every other class in the game can take signets, which provide two distinct effects, and suddenly they ALL have the equivalent of our Toolbelt. There are so many utilities in the game that have second effects built right into them, that giving our utilities second effects through the Toolbelt isn’t at all amazing, and it certainly isn’t all that unique.

It appears to me that our utilities are balanced against the utilities of other classes like this:

Engineer utility skill + associated toolbelt skill = <class name> utility skill

Our utilities take a hit to their usefulness (not all of them; there are always exceptions) in order to factor in their associated toolbelt skill. The problem is, this fails to take into account that other classes still also have access to an additional mechanic, where our Toolbelt sits.

Our utilities+toolbelt are balanced against other classes’ utilities, leaving those other classes with an additional primary mechanic to give them an edge against us.

As I said, not all of our Toolbelt skills are inferior in this regard, and in fact I would say that our healing abilities are actually some of the best in the game thanks in large part to the additional Toolbelt skill associated with them. But many Toolbelt skills are lackluster, assuming you don’t specifically trait for Static Discharge.

If all of our Toolbelt skills were as powerful as Big ol’ Bomb, Grenade Barrage, and Toss Elixit R, they’d be worthy of being our F-mechanic. Unfortunately, we have many others that are quite lacking, like some other Toss Elixirs, and most of the skills that players combo with Static Discharge (which are quite underpowered on their own, without Static Discharge. Requiring a certain trait just to make an ability useful isn’t a great way to balance said ability.)

This is why I’ve said that our kits should become our F-mechanic. If kits didn’t take up utility slots (denying us that slot to use for other essential utilities) they would be on-par with the F-mechanics of other classes.

-Travail.

Atlanis.6597:

Kits taking up utility slots would be alright IF they used our weapons stats and weren’t buggy. Take, for example, Elixir Gun. By putting this in a utility slot, we get a disengage (4), an aoe cleanse + stacking hot (5), a conal cleanse + poison + vulnerability (3), a bouncing cripple + swiftness (2), and a way to permanently apply weakness (1). That is a LOT more than any other class gets for a single utility slot.

However, the wrench in the machine is that other classes get a second weapon in addition to the three utility slots, which puts us at a disadvantage running 1 kit + 2 other. When we run two or more kits, though, I would say that we have an advantage over everyone save Elementalists (who have four different sets of abilities per weapon).

The Elementalist has the equivalent of 3 kits + 1 primary weapon at all times, without losing access to any utility slots. Necromancers can equip 2 weapons plus Death Shroud (which is essentially a strong kit) again without losing access to any of their utilities. Warrior Banners grant 5 attacks to whoever picks them up, as well as passive AoE buffs. There are weapon summons which grant 5 attacks to the user. We aren’t the only class with access to kits or kit equivalents.

And then there’s the matter of our F mechanic. Look at the Toolbelt for a moment, and consider what it actually does. It gives each of our utilities a second activated effect. Well, that’s great, but it’s not “better” than what other classes have access to without even considering their main mechanic. Every other class in the game, bar none, receives utilities with secondary activated effects.

- Signets (available to every class but ours.)
- The aforementioned Warrior Banners.
- Ranger Spirits.
- Necromancer Minions.
- Guardian Spirit Weapons.
- Mesmer Mantras (multiple uses of a single utility before placing it on cooldown.)

All of these include secondary activated abilities, just like our utilities have Toolbelt skills associated with them. Having a second activated ability associated with utilities is not unique to the Engineer, not by a long shot.

When every other class has F abilities (adrenaline, pets, shatters, etc.) in addition to these double-effect utilities, our Toolbelt starts to look pretty lackluster, doesn’t it?

Make no mistake, this class is no more versatile than any other.

-Travail.

I don’t think the “entire class” needs an overhaul. What we do need:

1. Bug fixes. Badly. The Flamethrower missing, Overcharged Shot and other skills failing to fire, etc.

2. Turrets need an overhaul. Their targeting, damage output, life/toughness, all of it. The turret related traits might be ok, once the turrets themselves see some fixes.

3. The way kits are equipped needs to be changed. Having kits take up utility slots is unacceptable, and takes away much of our supposed “versatility” that is our apparent strong point.

Currently, we are the only class specifically mentioned as having a hybrid tax, yet we are not the most versatile due to the fact that our kits take away our ability to equip essential utility skills, such as stun breakers and self/group buffs. Other classes may equip these freely while still having access to at least 10 weapon attacks each, if not more.

-Travail.

I don’t agree with everything the OP posted (Slick Shoes?) but I agree in principle. Making our kits (our “primary weapons” so the devs say) take up the same slots as our stun breakers and other utility skills is a huge problem with this class.

It’s worse for Turrets. Let’s say everything is balanced correctly with turrets. Each turret is usable and effective, and the Toolkit is worth taking to repair them.

In PvP, every build should have at least 1 stun breaker. That’s 1 utility being used on something other than a turret. Second, you’re going to want the Toolkit to repair the turrets you have out. There’s a second slot down. You’re left with a whopping 1 slot for a turret of your choice, plus the healing turret.

Even with turrets “working as intended,” they won’t really be working as intended. A single turret plus the healing turret in PvP? They’d have to make each turret as good as a Ranger pet for a turret spec to be viable, and I doubt that happens. That could unbalance the rest of the class (as any Engi spec could simply throw in a single turret to their build and see a huge damage boost.)

If turrets are ever to be made viable, we need to at least be able to equip the Toolkit in our “secondary weapon” slot, so we have more utility slots available for actual turrets.

Basically, what I’m saying is that, far from this being a “wanted” change, allowing kits to be equipped in our secondary weapon slot may turn out to be very much a necessary change in order to properly fix turrets.

Alternately, a change allowing kits to be equipped in the “Toolbelt” area instead of taking up utility slots (making our loadout look a lot like the Elementalist) may be warranted.

Either way, I see no way to properly balance turrets with things the way they are, unless they scrap the idea of the wrench healing turrets altogether (balancing the life of turrets so they don’t need to be healed) or place some game-changing traits high up in one trait line to make a single turret as effective as a Ranger pet (more effective, arguably, since ours are stationary.)

-Travail.

kekuso.5837:

I’ve played a warrior, ranger, and ele to level 80 (all geared with exotics), got bored of my guardian at level 70, then recently got my engineer to 80 and got him fully geared. The engineer is amazing.

In WvW (which is pretty much all I do now), no other class I’ve played has had 1500 RANGED AoE burns, blinds, bleeds, chills, and poison. No other class can have that kind of range AND can run through a zerg without dying. With the build I use, I have access to 3 blocks, 6 seconds of invuln, 6 seconds of stealth to get away with…
When I’m chasing someone down I have access to a 1200 RANGED PULL, a cripple, chill, knock back, stun, daze, immobilize…not enough? Well I also have access to every condition in the game except fear, I can put 25 stacks of vulnerability on people 1500 feet away, and I can put down an AoE heal every 15 seconds, and burst heal with my shield’s blast finisher…

In PvE, dungeons and mobs are a joke. It’s pretty dam difficult to hit people even with 1500 ranged, but mobs are just too easy. If they get close to you just cc the kitten out of them, get back to 1500 ranged, and nuke away.

The only reason why I think people don’t like the engineer class is because it takes time to understand the insane amount of kit-swapping and utilities available, then utilize all of it effectively in an actual fight. Such as a 1v5 situtation (which is easy once you get the hang of it!)

Here’s the build that I use both for PvE and PvP (WvW), it’s beautiful (copy-paste)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqiYnvSyF17IyIFdmoJSRlRZfe8WpFEC;ToAA1Cno8y4lwLrXOvkeNKZuA

This is some pretty shoddy logic. You only have 1500 range when the thing you are aiming at is not targeting you, and is stationary. But, when those two conditions are met, then you don’t actually need 1500 range, do you? You could be standing directly behind someone at close range and not get hit, assuming they are standing perfectly still and ignoring you. In short, grenades only have a 1500 meter effective range in a very specific situation where it is completely overkill to have 1500 meters of range. Your 1500 range could be 900 and you’d be just as effective.

I’m also not sure how you are reliably kiting mobs at 1500 range. You, yourself, admit that hitting moving targets at that range is difficult. Do you expect us to believe that you somehow have enough immobilization abilities in that build you linked to constantly keep the mob stationary at 1500m? You expect us to take your word that you can CC something at medium range, and have time to run all the way out to a full 1500m and lob a few grenades before the CC breaks and they become mobile again? Really?

25 stacks of vulnerability at 1500 range? 1 v. 5? You are heavily exaggerating the effectiveness of your build, to be sure.

I’m not saying it’s a bad build. But, it’s not the 1500m range 1v.5 death machine you claim it to be.

-Travail.

My only problem with the rifle is the reliability of the attacks. Overcharged Shot would be fine if a bug didn’t cause it to fail to fire half the time.

Net shot would be amazing if it didn’t miss from longer ranges due to the travel time of the net. In a game with tab targeting -IE. where we can’t manually aim a little ahead of our target to compensate for the travel time- this is inexcusable. The net needs to travel faster, or the skill needs to hit our target regardless what the net animation is actually doing.

With Jump Shot, the only change I want to see is to make it instantly deal it’s damage, the moment you reach your destination. It doesn’t need evasion or anything like that, it just needs to deal it’s damage reliably. It’s already a ground targeted skill, which means the chance of missing a moving target is high. There’s no reason to also have a half-second delay before landing on top of that. That just makes the skill feel unresponsive and clunky.

-Travail.

pkuderov.2843:

I leveled this way and want to say:
1) advice #2 upper seems a bit disputable. I have another key binding of all skills so the ‘1’ skill is on ‘q’ and it fits enough (just FYI)
2)no need to put points only in 1st row of traits especially on early lvls because of 1st tier doesn’t get you very powerfull options. I did that way – put first 9 points into 1st row (for +stats) and than respeced into last row for speedy kits trait. Always be speed boosted is one of the most powerfull sides of engineer (but I don’t deny that 1st row of traits is our the most loved)

Yeah, at low levels you should probably just go into Speedy Kits + Invigorating Speed. You can kite anything with that setup. Even at level 40, I take these two plus Kit Refinement (I run with EG as well, so that’s a Grenade Barrage every 10 seconds, as well as double Super Elixir.) Only after that did I start up the Explosives trait line.

I do think people should keep Grenade 1 on their mouse, though. I have 1, 2, and 3 on my mouse, since they are typically on low cooldowns, regardless what class/weapon/kit you are using. Grenade 1 especially, though, you want on your mouse so you can move in any direction easily with WASD and still spam your main attack. Personal preference, of course.

I use a Logitech G700 which features 3 buttons beside the left mouse button, all of which can be used with my index finger, so I’m essentially just left-clicking to attack. It’s a great gaming mouse for players who don’t like to use a ton of thumb buttons (4 thumb buttons, plus the 3 index finger buttons, for a total of 7 programmable mouse buttons.)

-Travail.

Fiorrello.8126:

Anymras.5729:

Here’s my dream patch note for January:

Engineer:
[Insert a list of all bugs affecting Engineer, and a notice that they have been corrected.]

maybe a resend of a few of their nerfs (increasing the condition duration on pistols)

that aside i believe kit refinement could use a little bit of tweaking. the added effect from the flamethrower and elixir gun are great the way they are; but the added effect from the bomb kit, grenade kit, med kit and tool kit are all garbage.

medkit- on equip cure one condition, convert one condition to a boon, 10 second speed boost. just off of the top of my head.

bombkit- drop a smoke bomb on equip, glue bomb, big ’ol bomb, something better then what we have

tool kit- the caltrops are nice but they aren’t anywhere near as powerful as the thieves caltrops (they don’t stack bleeding like the thieves caltrops do) i propose an oil slick, or a magnetic aura

Tool kit and Grenades are fine with kit refinement. The grenade kit gives you grenade barrage every 10 seconds. That’s plenty powerful. While the caltrops aren’t as good as some other versions of caltrops, don’t forget that this only has a 10 second cooldown, doesn’t cost any kind of resources, and is only one part of what kit refinement does. In that context, the caltrops are powerful, and players make good use of them in builds.

Kit refinement is good, I wouldn’t go nitpicking it. The bomb is fairly lacklustre, and I have no idea what they were thinking with the explosion from med kit, but overall it’s a great trait. If all they did was rework the medkit ability to offer something that works with the theme of the kit (dropping a random bandage/antidote/stimulant?) that would be great.

-Travail.

I’ve suggested something similar in the past.

The bottom line for me is, I don’t want to see kits gain a cooldown, and I don’t think many players want that, either. I like being able to swap between kits as often as possible, and I feel this is one thing that serves to set us apart from the Elementalist class (which is basically forced to blow all it’s cooldowns in one attunement before switching to another.)

What I proposed was giving us 2 kit slots up where our toolbelt currently is (the limit of 2, as opposed to 4 for the Ele, is hopefully so we can keep cooldowns off of kits.) Then, offer the “toolbelt” skills as regular utility skills (now classified as “gadgets”) so players can still take them if they wish.

Change the traits that affect the “toolbelt” to affect “gadgets” instead, and make all of the previous toolbelt skills into gadgets (so there’s no effect on builds like static discharge builds.)

This offers several advantages over the current system. You would be able to choose your toolbelt skills (now regular utilities) independent of your choice of kits. You would be able to use multiple kits while still taking stun breakers in PvP. You would be able to take turrets and kits simultaneously.

Also of note: the 2 kit slots would also be able to contain regular utilities. The last thing I would want to do is hurt elixir builds by limiting the number of elixirs available to only 4. This would give these builds a total of 6 potential slots for elixirs, admittedly down from the current 8 available slots. This would be offset, though, but being able to take better elixirs in those 6 slots (6 unlinked slots = 4 pairs of linked slots?)

-Travail.

I can’t say for sure whether it was nerfed or not. I can’t get it to hit for the same amount as it did before. In sPvP, it was critting for 11k total damage, now it’s 7k max. Using the same gear and spec to test with.

Not sure what’s up. Lots of people say there’s no nerf to this skill, so I’m at a loss to explain my own results after the patch.

-Travail.

If they fix the issues with this skill randomly missing and getting lost in the terrain, there would be nothing wrong with it. You have a knockback in the same kit as the ability, allowing you to maneuver into the proper range for the attack, and we also have knockbacks on both the shield and the rifle to assist us with maneuvering for this ability (and utility skillsif you want, but I usually use elixirs with the FT.)

I don’t mind that the explosion is at a set range. Coming from TERA, where heals and many magic attacks all have ground effects which are placed at a set distance from your character (usually 10m) I’m used to this kind of aiming. The problem with the ability is that it misses even after you properly set yourself up to maximize it’s effectiveness.

-Travail.

Dunnar.8420:

Sigil of Battle is 3 stacks of might (20 second duration) on weapon swap with a 10 second cooldown.
Sigil of Strength is a 30% on crit to gain 1 stack of might (10 second duration) with a 2 second cooldown.
Which one do you like for a might-stacking, Juggernaut build (assuming Sigil of Force is already on the other weapon)?

Sigil of Battle with +might duration can give you a guaranteed 9 stacks of might while in combat. Even with +60% might duration, at best Sigil of Strength will give you 8 stacks under perfect conditions. Sigil of Battle doesn’t rely on RNG, and you also don’t need high precision to take advantage of it’s effect.

IMO, Sigil of Strength is for characters that don’t swap weapons very often. Something like a Shortbow Ranger, maybe, or an Engineer running zero kits (HGH might stacking p/p or rifle builds.)

-Travail.

I’m pretty sure grenades are still our highest dps output if you use HGH might stacking and Sigil of Battle. Something like:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlspSXnwSiF17ICoC5loHPGlNZfe8WtFEC;TIADRmWA

Between the rifle’s CC, Elixir R, and Formula 409, you’ll have some decent group support for a dps build.

-Travail.

The problem isn’t so much that the Engineer class can’t fix golems (just because you can fix a car doesn’t mean you can fix a jet engine, for example.) The problem is more that any non-Asura Engineer class approaches the problem like any other layman, seemingly without even a fundamental knowledge of the mechanical workings of machines. I agree that does seem out of place.

But then, there are plenty of quests to deal with big, bad beasts out there where Rangers aren’t recognized for their affinity with animals, subterfuge quests where Thiefs don’t get to take advantage of their stealth or steal, and the mage classes are often stumped by magic-related quandaries. Engineers aren’t alone in occasionally feeling like their class specialization isn’t taken into account by the game.

However, unless you want Guild Wars 2 to have an over-inflated budget like SW:ToR, there are certain thematic inconsistencies you’ll probably have to live with. One is that your genius of an Engineer happens to know exactly squat about golems.

-Travail.

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Wolfies.8152:

Casia.4281:

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Caldric.1685:

In the mean time I love my 1000+ crit with autoattack Ranger.

Auto-attack rifle engineer has had 1200-1400+ crit at 50-70% crit rate since before launch. And unlike your ranger, due to piercing, a single rifle shot can hit multiple foes. It’s posts like these that make me wonder if the people in this thread ever even tried a non-grenade build.

Have you seen the “rifle is poor damage”posts prior to patch? I was just sitting there scratching my head.
Engi rifle auto attack is like the #2 highest dps ability after grenades in the game..

With traits, arrows can pierce. Maybe you should try lvling a Ranger. Mr. Bad.

Ok, so you spend a trait on something I get for free. Grats Mr. Bad.

Travail.7390:

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Caldric.1685:

In the mean time I love my 1000+ crit with autoattack Ranger.

Auto-attack rifle engineer has had 1200-1400+ crit at 50-70% crit rate since before launch. And unlike your ranger, due to piercing, a single rifle shot can hit multiple foes. It’s posts like these that make me wonder if the people in this thread ever even tried a non-grenade build.

I’m pretty sure the Engi Rifle shoots slower than the Ranger’s short bow, though. Against single targets, or targets who are spread out, the Ranger should win out, I think. Plus, the Ranger applies automatic bleeds when beside or behind their target with their short bow #1.

You also need to factor in pet damage on top of whatever the Ranger is dealing.

-Travail.

And you need to factor in the huge static discharge burst from a proper rifle build. The initial post compared autoattack to autoattack. Apples to apples. Throwing in other abillites is comparing apples to oranges. For a curve ball you could also throw in the extra control rifle has innately. More oranges, yay.

My point was, and still stands, that Rifle 1 has always been a top notch attack, if built for it. This doesn’t excuse the gutting of grenade builds, which were not overpowered in any way, and converting direct damage to condition damage does precisely that — guts grenades.

Its not the end of the engineer class as some have pointed out, but it is inexcusable and unnecessary to gut a damage build that didn’t even come close to the damage of other classes.

The auto-attack of the Ranger suffers from reduced damage specifically in order to incorporate pet damage. The Ranger, in essence, has 2 auto-attacks; his own, and his pet’s. Those two together are balanced to roughly equal the auto-attack of other classes. Without factoring in the pet, of course you’ll be able to say that you are superior to the Ranger, in almost every way in fact.

-Travail.

Daigle.8497:

-snip-

but they should fix Fumigate to self-cure conditions.

Probably a good idea, regardless. That would bring it more inline with other cone heals, like the Elementalist’s Cone of Cold, which also heals the user.

-Travail.

Orissa.1872:

I like Super Elixir for its duration. I can throw it at melee fighters, field is huge enough to let them keep moving/dodging inside of it. Then I’ve got some time to deal damage and put some cc around. Same in WvW, if during the siege group of players is under constant attack (arrow carts, longbow #5) I can keep area of constant healing in addition to regeneration boon

I would never trade current Super Elixir mechanics for Geyser, even if Geyser is a water field. Why?

1. Water field vs Light field
   Geyser is winning here, tho it’s situational. Sometimes constant condition removal is really important and engi can’t afford keeping whole team in tight cone of Fumigate, especially with miss-miss-miss-… issue

1. Radius of 120/180 vs 240
   Much easier to heal and maintain healing with bigger AoE. Also easier to land initial spike heal on moving targets

1. Duration of 2s vs 10s
   Super Elixir better by all means, it’s stacking with regeneration and providing constant sustain. Also field duration matters, short field can’t be utilized by more than 2-3 finishers, even voice communication is not helping this much

Super Elixir no longer provides a constant, sustained heal after players move out of it’s area of effect. And that happens all the time. Better to have it heal the player as much as possible, as fast as possible, IMO.

If the AoE was mobile, for example if it centered around your character and followed you, now that would be something. You could then ensure that the player who needed healing was getting it, by sticking close to them.

I’m of the opinion that the only way to properly balance a ground effect AoE heal in a “skill-based” (read: dodge-based) game is to ensure that the full heal is applied to any player who comes within the area of effect. So, if they are going to use heal-over-time mechanics, they either need to be of an extremely short duration, or the HoT should be applied to any player who enters the circle, and stay on them even if they leave the area of effect.

That’s the other way to go. Give anyone entering Super Elixir’s AoE a 10 second heal-over-time effect which stays with them even if they move out of the circle. Apply that to all ground effect healing while you’re at it.

-Travail.

If an ability is going to be unpredictable, then the “ideal” effects need to be very powerful -borderline overpowered- to offset the unreliable nature.

If they want to keep Elixirs unpredictable, then an Elixir chugging Engineer who has everything work out perfectly for them should be damn near unstoppable for the 10 or so seconds that they are under the effects of those elixirs. We don’t see that right now.

There should be a small chance that ALL of the effects from a random elixir are applied. That would be cool.

-Travail.