Guild Wars 2

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

TwoBit.5903:

I think the quote was directly referencing the writing of the LS, which in my experience, isn’t anything like the old Guild Wars lore and feels more like a cheesy Saturday morning cartoon in terms of quality. That said the comparison felt like ANet are blatantly coat-tailing the popularity Martin’s work, that is unless they’re referencing the writing of the awful Game of Thrones GAMES :P

I think the quote would have been “I guessed who shot JR” if it was fifteen to twenty years ago. Or “I figured out what the Island was” five to ten years ago.

They’re using the presence of a pop culture, hot topic people can actually relate to outside of small reference pools so they can let it be known “there’s a twist people guessed at already, and others saying it’s just crazy”.

It’s not at all representative of what’s in game though, and by using the comparison they’re setting potential players up for disappointment.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Meglobob.8620:

I can’t believe that they compared living story with Game of Thrones…lol…

Game of Thrones utterly awesome 9.99/10 better than Lord of the Rings, Tolkien.

No. No it is not.

Both are made by authors who spent a considerable amount of time crafting their worlds and nailing down details nobody will ever probably know so they can work in a full world. With its own myths, legends, secrets, rules . . .

The only difference is George R.R. Martin went with a more historical interpretation and something less idealized and instead darker and less happy. Tolkein went with forming it as a mythological construct, not unlike how people view Ancient Greece through the myths which are told about it.

I don’t find one better than the other just because one has hobbits and the other has Arya Stark. One had Tom Bombadil and the other had a few really bad weddings/marriages.

I’d say Guild Wars as a whole has felt a lot more like something closer to The Forgotten Realms novel lines from TSR. Really good writing, some really cliched writing (not, mind you, mutually exclusive) and awareness it’s all in a game universe.

Guild Wars seems to take quite a few inspirations from the Elder Scrolls in terms of the structure its lore and the mechanics of its world. The style of writing has always been pastiche, either taking inspirations from other works or directly referencing them. Then again all fantasy is derivative (read: laden with tropes) so that’s not really saying much.

Tolkein vs. Martin is really High Fantasy vs. Dark, Low Fantasy. The latter is more refreshing because of how overdone and derivative the former has become in the recent years. They’re both fairly well-written from a literary standpoint, but they seem great because fantasy is a genre generally written for appeal and not literary quality.

I think the quote was directly referencing the writing of the LS, which in my experience, isn’t anything like the old Guild Wars lore and feels more like a cheesy Saturday morning cartoon in terms of quality. That said the comparison felt like ANet are blatantly coat-tailing the popularity Martin’s work, that is unless they’re referencing the writing of the awful Game of Thrones GAMES :P

>ESL
>Prestigious

About as believable as the comparison between this game and Game of Thrones.

1. The naming. People have made a point about this name of this game not being accurate. For all intents and purposes, I believe the name should be changed to “Guild Wars Too.” When players think of most MMOs, they’ll now think of “Guild Wars Too.” Grind? Treadmills? Guild Wars Too!

2. Particles. ANet have designed the game’s particles to be more gratuitous and rewarding than the loot, so much so that players will eventually go blind.

3. The combat. Guild Wars 2 was a milestone in MMOs because its active combat system. Instant canceling and the lack of rooting added infinite depth and counterplay into the genre, but it they don’t take it far enough! They didn’t take it to the next level of movement: Warping. You can see ANet experiementing with warping with thieves, the most balanced and fun profession to fight, and traces of it can be seen in WvW (on crowded nights). With warping the player doesn’t need to worry about dodging attacks, they can skillfully warp away. PvP is also much more fun and suspenseful when players can not tell where their opponent will appear. It’s almost as suspenseful as letting server determine if and when the players’ will occur at random.

4. The story. Simply put, there’s not enough Scarlet. Players like to complain about Scarlet, but only because she lacks character depth, which means she isn’t responsible for enough of the plot. Not only should she be responsible for the molten alliance she should have a hand in the revival of the dragons, rise and downfall of the titans, the basic elements, the mists, the creation of the universe, everything. It may also add depth to the player character if Scarlet turns out to be their mother, father, uncle, aunt, and child all at the same time (preferably). Anything is possible for a is self-empowered female Sylvari.

5. The lack of features for the game’s most promising mode, by which I mean champion trains (no cares about PvP). There needs to be in-game UI notification for champion spawns, a “train” chat, train specific skill balancing (classes are horribly imbalanced at the moment), train queue and train observer mode. To cover the development costs, ANet can easily monetize trains by including train autopilot and train-specific finishers and costumes.

Love: The Promises written in the Manifesto

Hate: ANet’s eventual interpretation of the Manifesto.

Not worth it at this point as the GW1 players that left have not only left but lost hope in the company. It’ll be too little too late for the amount of work required. The infrastructure of the game’s combat wouldn’t allow GW1’s design choices to work anyhow (mostly because of movecasting, instant canceling and the lack of resources), and, as with SWG, changing that infrastructure will upset the ones that do like the game. The best that’ll happen without changing that infrastructure would be a GW2 with a bunch of useless skills, easily min-maxed because of the lack of risk-reward and counterplay. It’ll be like GW1’s after Nightfall but much worse. Could be fun though, and fun is supposed to be Arenanet’s superlative metric.

Eloquence.5207:

They added dodge. So much skillz!

To be perfectly fair takes a certain amount of concentration to actually see through the particles and make out the red circles you’re supposed to dodge out of.

Skill varies from game to game.

In competitive pokemon it’s prediction, counterplay through typing stats and skill selection; and being blessed by the critical hit gods.

In Street Fighter skill is the ability to get into your opponents head to either figure out which move to counter or force them into a disadvantageous situation. Not to mention, there’s an incredibly high skill ceiling for the actual execution of attacks.

In MOBAs it’s countering the opposing team based on inductive reasoning and communication, the resulting counterplay culminating highly coordinated team fights.

In GW2 it’s using the flavor of the month cheese build or spamming dps and standing outside of red circles, depending on the game mode. No need to theorycraft too much either, just wait for the devs to change the game’s balance every month and figure out the the next optimal cheese/dps build.

VOLKON.1290:

TwoBit.5903:

VOLKON.1290:

Oh, that’s right, you’re using the wrong definition of pay to win to try and make your argument. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Let’s shift back to the real definition. Show me something on the cash shop you must buy to compete.

None, but that’s not how most pay to win cash shops work.
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaminShokrizade/20130626/194933/

Reading is cool, kids.

Well that explains a lot. You’re now confusing monetization efforts (which can encompass pay to win) with pay to win in general.

No one can argue that there are some efforts in the shop that are designed to make money. Wouldn’t be much of a cash shop if it didn’t, would it? However, there is no pay to win, which is a specific subset of the whole.

We’re not talking about how cash shops work. We’re talking about pay to win. They are not the same thing.

Are you sure you don’t have the wrong definition. If it’s item or privilege exclusive to real money spending then its pay for access, not P2W.

VOLKON.1290:

TwoBit.5903:

VOLKON.1290:

TwoBit.5903:

VOLKON.1290:

Corpus Christi.2057:

VOLKON.1290:

Guild Wars 2 is not even remotely pay to win. This discussion is not even worth having.

No one forces you to discuss it. Nevertheless, thanks for forcing your view onto us.

Cheers

A pleasure. Of course, I wouldn’t do it if I wasn’t right.

You cannot buy win.

Oh, and here’s the best part that people completely forget… even if you bought the materials for ascended gear using gold you got from converting gems… you’re not buying the materials from ArenaNet. You’re buying them from other players.

I’ll bet those that actually think there’s a P2W element in the game are incapable of understanding the significance of that simple, basic fact.

You can buy gold to purchase materials from ANet if you don’t want to go through the pain of grinding. In fact, in many games there are ways you can trade cash only items for goods earned within the games, a process that’s not so dissimilar from trading bought gold.

What mats are being sold in the cash shop that are needed to craft ascended gear? Am I missing something here? All the materials on the trading post are there because players put them there, not ANet.

Anet designed the trading post in mind to take advantage of the fact? So they can sell gems to help people to buy those materials? To reduce the pain?

Oh, that’s right, you’re using the wrong definition of pay to win to try and make your argument. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Let’s shift back to the real definition. Show me something on the cash shop you must buy to compete.

None, but that’s not how most pay to win cash shops work.
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaminShokrizade/20130626/194933/

Reading is cool, kids.

I love the look of the GW2 forums. Gives me reason to wear sunglasses indoors.

VOLKON.1290:

TwoBit.5903:

VOLKON.1290:

Corpus Christi.2057:

VOLKON.1290:

Guild Wars 2 is not even remotely pay to win. This discussion is not even worth having.

No one forces you to discuss it. Nevertheless, thanks for forcing your view onto us.

Cheers

A pleasure. Of course, I wouldn’t do it if I wasn’t right.

You cannot buy win.

Oh, and here’s the best part that people completely forget… even if you bought the materials for ascended gear using gold you got from converting gems… you’re not buying the materials from ArenaNet. You’re buying them from other players.

I’ll bet those that actually think there’s a P2W element in the game are incapable of understanding the significance of that simple, basic fact.

You can buy gold to purchase materials from ANet if you don’t want to go through the pain of grinding. In fact, in many games there are ways you can trade cash only items for goods earned within the games, a process that’s not so dissimilar from trading bought gold.

What mats are being sold in the cash shop that are needed to craft ascended gear? Am I missing something here? All the materials on the trading post are there because players put them there, not ANet.

Anet designed the trading post in mind to take advantage of the fact? So they can sell gems to help people to buy those materials? To reduce the pain? 2+2= 4?

VOLKON.1290:

Corpus Christi.2057:

VOLKON.1290:

Guild Wars 2 is not even remotely pay to win. This discussion is not even worth having.

No one forces you to discuss it. Nevertheless, thanks for forcing your view onto us.

Cheers

A pleasure. Of course, I wouldn’t do it if I wasn’t right.

You cannot buy win.

Oh, and here’s the best part that people completely forget… even if you bought the materials for ascended gear using gold you got from converting gems… you’re not buying the materials from ArenaNet. You’re buying them from other players.

I’ll bet those that actually think there’s a P2W element in the game are incapable of understanding the significance of that simple, basic fact.

You can buy gold to purchase materials from ANet if you don’t want to go through the pain of grinding. In fact, in many games there are ways you can trade cash only items for goods earned within the games, a process that’s not so dissimilar from trading bought gold.

DownPour.5903:

Protoavis.9107:

DownPour.5903:

Ascended and legendary is not enough stat increase for people to actually not party up with people who don’t have it.

It’s still new, given the zerker only listings in LFG I won’t be surprised if it goes ascended zerker only in a month or two.

Yes, but then again, those people are just being silly. Just because all they want is to force through content, good for them. Better just ignore them and start your own group.

There will be plenty of people without ascended gear, and they will do equally fine without them. It isn’t the game itself being unfair, it’s the player.

If we’re looking at zerkers, there’s around 15% increase in offensive power. That’s justifiable increase in speed runs, especially when the objective is to get loot/gold as fast as possible. Though it is true that there will be groups who aren’t so demanding as to make you ping your gear.

VOLKON.1290:

Of course it’s not pay to win. I played a game once, forget the name, that was a space shooter type of game. You played through a leveling area, growing your ships, gathering resources and blowing people up, kind of a micro-EveOnline (with no wheres near the sophistication). However, once you maxed out (which took far too long), that was it. Unless, of course, you bought the ship they were selling, which was vastly superior to the best you could get in game. No comparison. To compete, you bought this ship. Oh… and the expendable ammo they sold. It was twice as powerful as the best you could get without cash. That is pure pay to win. To compete, you were forced to open the wallet.

Anyone suggesting that GW2 is even remotely pay to win makes me wonder if they’re either lacking in gaming experience (never actually experienced pay to win) or simply posting known fallacies for the sake of either generating arguments for fun or for bashing the game.

Guild Wars 2 is not even remotely pay to win. This discussion is not even worth having.

I agree! Loud noises and denial!

milo.6942:

this game is P2AG
pay to avoid grind
there is no way to “win” in this game
the gem operation is borderline P2W but so far it is mostly fine.
mostly the problem is legendaries that can be bought

The term “pain” often comes when reading articles on F2P cash shops. The pain is something players don’t enjoy or aren’t engaged to do to earn something desirable. This can be anything from gating content behind tokens a la Candy Crush Saga, Gating gear progression behind a RNG progression or gating better gear behind grind. The P2W aspects of those cash shops lie in the goods that the sell specifically to reduce the amount of pain that their patrons experience. Candy Crush sells tokens to allow you to continue and most korean P2W games sell items that reduce or negate the effects of failed upgrading.

In GW2 Ascended acts as the goal and anyone chasing after it is subjected to time games and grind, in other words the pain. Gold acts as the pain reliever as you can bypass crafting time gates and get your gear much quicker. You can of course earn gold through playing, but it’s often less painful to buy gold via real life money. It’s very much P2W, but not as obvious or severe as, say, PWI’s scheme.

Personally, I agree with you that no player is technically winning in the process ;]

That’s describing the difference in the severity of two P2W systems, not a difference in the fundamental workings of those system.

It’s pay2win, just more cleverly layered.

Who’s to say that the lack of transparency didn’t do more harm than good, given all the possible implications? I can very easily call it an act of cowardice and many would be believe me.

So what should they admit?

“Hello, we are a company, and the model we envisioned in our manifesto would not let the game survive nor make us enough money to be worth all the time and effort spent on it, therefore we made changes to interest a bigger audience”?

No matter what they say or do people will complain.
But the main issue is that people refuse to understand what a manifesto actually is.

Better to have the back the respect of some rather than none.

The manifesto was for all intents and purposes a marketing tool the sincerity of it notwithstanding. ANet needs own up for dashing the expectations set by it seeing as how they are responsible for its contents.

CEDWYN.5392:

Designers have no say when it comes to money. Their bosses bosses don’t care as much about PR as they care about money. If that means changing what makes them money… they do it… and then wonder months later why no one wants to play their game. It is risk vs. reward. They have daily meeting about this very thing, and what they can get away with.

The only way to make them change their methods is to stop playing. Tell people not to play the game. Once the numbers drop, anet will release manifesto-ish content to get you to come back. You return, enjoy it while it lasts then leave again. Repeat this cycle until you die.

Though this hints at a sad truth in corporate-run game development, some companies, like Valve and Riot, are clever enough to work the give and take into a relationship that’s highly beneficial to both parties.

PVE meta Zerker Cooldown spam. I suppose you can be creative with the order of the skills spammed? Not that the game’s combat design engages creativity anyway.

The fact that ANet said needed to add a new tier gear to engage players to play implicates they failed to create an MMO that avoids the trapping of WoW and its clones. Because that’s part of what people hate about MMOs, chasing superficial carrots laid before rather than having a meaningful experience. Or is zerging around like a zombie somehow meaningful? If it is I may as well just sit around and do nothing because that would just as meaningful.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

No one says the game is without problems. Sure it has problems. But saying that Anet advertised something, when all they did was mention it in a couple of interviews is overstatement for the sake of trying to prove a point.

Sorry, when a game development representative talks to a fansite while the game is in development, they are advertising the game. That’s how these companies advertise their games. Maybe you were extremely casual about advertising your business(es), but that doesn’t mean companies spending millions of dollars to produce a game are.

Whether or not the logistics are the same, the end result is that it sets expectations, and expectations are what sells games these days, not necessarily quality or execution. It’s not so difficult to see why many would hold developers accountable for the expectations they set after incidents like Mass Effect 3 (it wasn’t just the ending that was poorly done) and Aliens: CM.

The fact that players bring up these threads means that although expectations have been betrayed there’s always room for redemption.

I sincerely hope they’re not learning plot and story writing from this game.

Wasn’t GW2 in development for 5 years? What happened during those 5 years if they weren’t building the game? How did it get to this point after 5 years of development?

I wouldn’t call it MLG or even eSports in the sense that most players would generally interpret those terms. Most games supported by Gamebattles are, in fact, inactive.

Pretty much. Game is focusing on retention through time-gating rather than delivering content with intrinsic longevity. It’s ironic though, since these decisions have pretty much made me and most of my friends quit.

ITT: people forget that the GW2 combat engine was designed for esports. Sigh.

Lack of features, game modes and tactical gameplay would have people thinking otherwise.

If there were 20-50k unique views (you can do wonders with kludge math) from 2k listed views wouldn’t that mean that other games had more than the number of unique viewers listed on their twitch channels as well?

As for the OP, what’s fun to watch in team games are the interesting and creative strategies. Conquest allows for only very few macro strategies like boss rushing, but there can be a variety of on the spot strategies through the actual combat. However, the combat is nearly illegible, not only because of the poor telegraphing but because important factors like boons and conditions are UI elements that are spammed faster than the shoutcaster can explain what’s going on, and the application is much faster and more frequent than the players can counter them (this leads to moments of no commentary aside from banal quips about petting zoos and passive play lulz) ANet has to start over at the very basics of their mechanics to address problems with legibility, otherwise they’re going to keep running headfirst into brick walls.

Vayne.8563:

I run a lot more dungeons now than before.

Vocal minority.

Can you link to that thread? I wouldn’t be too surprised if I don’t find a post as incendiary as yours is right now.

chemiclord.3978:

TwoBit.5903:

Toxicity may be an issue, but I have to mention that Riot, the developer of game whose target demographic is widely considered to be the most toxic of gamers, is able to be maintain a high level of transparency and communication with their players. It astounds me how little communication there is between the GW2 devs and their playerbase when one of the things that sold me on this franchise was a playerbase that’s considered to be more mature than the norm.

I think “toxicity” is being used as a relative term. If I were to do a count, I see far more posts attacking the those “toxic” players (not just their opinions) who dislike ascended gear than ones who provide thoughtful counterarguments. This was case during prelaunch as well, when those idiot no nothing players who criticized the story and its delivery were downvoted into oblivion on Reddit. I wonder, what’s the consensus on the story now? If its true people see what they want to see, and then I think everyone should take a step back count their own sins before judging others. Remember, matters of perception are wholly relative.

And yet Riot’s official forums are largely a cesspool of spite and venom filled with players venting angrily about [x] or [y], even WITH Riot’s transparency and communication.

It’s just how these things are. Satisfied customers will rarely go out of their way to log into the forums and say “Smashing job, fellas! Keep it up!” The sort of people who WILL go to those lengths are the sort that want an outlet for their displeasure.

And the Devs still respond in spite of that and, in general, the responses show a level of appreciation of those efforts.

Toxicity may be an issue, but I have to mention that Riot, the developer of game whose target demographic is widely considered to be the most toxic of gamers, is able to be maintain a high level of transparency and communication with their players. It astounds me how little communication there is between the GW2 devs and their playerbase when one of the things that sold me on this franchise was a playerbase that’s considered to be more mature than the norm.

I think “toxicity” is being used as a relative term. If I were to do a count, I see far more posts attacking the those “toxic” players (not just their opinions) who dislike ascended gear than ones who provide thoughtful counterarguments. This was case during prelaunch as well, when those idiot no nothing players who criticized the story and its delivery were downvoted into oblivion on Reddit. I wonder, what’s the consensus on the story now? If its true people see what they want to see, and then I think everyone should take a step back count their own sins before judging others. Remember, matters of perception are wholly relative.

There’s a clear lack of challenge outside of dodging and spamming attacks. Outside of stability and reflects there’s not much to support in PvE (and this is why the dungeon meta favors Guardians.) and why control when you can spam even more DPS to bring down enemies even faster?

I hate bringing this up again, but I think action games like Vindi have the right of it when there are no specified roles. The challenge in those types of games needs to come from actually executing attacks and dodging attacks rather than manipulating HP/resource bars.

If there needs to be roles, then give all professions the ability to swap between them to some degree like in GW1. Or better yet, get rid of professions and let players create their own roles to suit the situation.

Reesha.7901:

Seems the communication with a-net is limited to the spvp part of the forum.

Lol, no. It’s kind of bad all around. In fact there was an incident with spam last week on the sPvP forums caused by the lack of transparency. That part of the forums is getting more responses but it’s the same apologetic PR vagaries they were getting before communication stopped in the first place.

stof.9341:

Actually, I want the Ascended gear out of this game :o That or they remove the extra stats compared to Exotics.

Pretty much this. The tier does more harm than good.

Just ignore Maddoctor. He’s either delusional or a troll. Keep arguing and and the mods will have grounds for deleting the thread. And they will find every reason to do it.

At this point, I can’t help but recall Mike Obrian’s statement about VP. How is whatever we have right now less static than GW1? Even if the numbers in GW1 didn’t get any higher, the possibilities provided by the skill system extended to the stars. Now, in GW2, if we want some semblance of variety we’re forced through horrendous time gates simply to the most of your build. This was a problem even before the introduction of AC gear, because if you had alts you had to grind to 80 and then kit them out as well. How is GW1 more static than this?

WoW was always easy to pick on despite its success, and it was perhaps through ANet’s intentions/hubris that GW2 marketed as sort of an antithesis to WoW and it’s ideas. This is evident in how some of GW2 ideas only sounded good when they were compared to the apparent failings of WoW. Hindsight is kind of funny considering the current direction of this game, but I digress. Just a bit of history that could explain the disposition of GW2 players.

Azunai.5974:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Fishbait.6723:

At least we learnt where we were going wrong.
Most if not all of us use all attunements, according to Sharp, all the ele he`s seen only use fire.

/faccepalmdeskfloor

They were talking about how they wanted rangers to have more control over pet skills, but jsharp said that would be too complex for new players to learn. then they brought up the argument of the ele or engi being complex as well, then jsharp said most new eles are in one attunement like fire. i believe thats where you may be getting confused, he didnt assume everyone who plays the class is a noob.

So JSharp is going to base balance on the assumption that new players will not progress from using one attunement to attunement swapping?

There is a reason why they are called new players. Because they’re playing a flawed playtyle that they naturally grow out of as they get better, or should. But apparently that’s not JSharp thinks. If he thinks at all.

What. You don’t compromise your game for newbies, you simply make it easier to get into. Sigh, and that’s why this class has little hope.

Whatever the intention behind it was, I think Onshi is pretty much described why it’s not really hard mode.
I’m not sure about I Wanna be the Guy, but I actually beat Kazio Mario and I can honestly say that’s its purely skill based. All obstacles can be overcome and are completely visible. There’s trial and error, but it’s overcome with sharpening reaction time and reflexes, not memory.

Galtrix.7369:

As far as I can tell, Anet always intended to have ascended weapons/armor. As of now, the current best weapon in the game is a legendary and Anet said they wanted the legendary only to be cosmetically better and not statistically better. If you look right now, there’s a gap of damage between the exotic weapons and the legendary. The ascended weapons will fix that by bridging the gap and will have the same damage and stats of the legendary weapons.

Ascended is the last tier.

The last one promised this year*

@OP: The game’s stat progression is vapid and pointless. So no, I’d rather not have another tier.

The game’s focused changed from friendly MMO to reward treadmill, so it’s not unthinkable that the previous playerbase would distill/change to current one.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Can this stupid argument end already? They’ve said time and time again that they won’t add any more tiers.

Secondly: they’ve used all 6 primary and secondary colors of the CMYK color wheel to colorized the rarities of items. There aren’t any left.

They said they won’t be adding anymore sets this year.

If they disabled the hit animations the game would be far more legible. They don’t even need to touch the actual skill animations.

No

For me, core of the game simply has too many issues. Build and statistics often dominate creativity and skill. There’s very little headroom to improve as a player and if you do the game simply doesn’t facilitate personal progression outside of a grind meter.

gwawer.9805:

sooo criticism threads and a dev post gets deleted, but this thread is still up

It had a thumbs up within 1 minute of being posted as well. It took me at least several to decipher the garble.

Tellah.8073:

TwoBit.5903:

Tellah.8073:

TwoBit.5903:

Isn’t this thread subversive in the exact same way? Belittling opinions of a demographic through passive aggressive remarks?

if i were being subversive, i wouldnt want the game to work. if the pvp community showed a little more repect and gratitude, than i could only guess that devs might be slightly more motivated to work on pvp with positive outcomes.

what im pointing out is that this demographic is the one causing the biggest problems because of the generally mean-spirited aura surrounding it. no i dont think anet staff are saints, no i dont think the game is perfect, im simply pointing out the lack of common courtesy amongst the community and the perpetual demoralization that it causes.

i see staff making informative, very pleasant, non-scathing posts about whatever, and i see the pvp community erupt in ignorant attacks and slander about stuff they have absolutely no clue about every time, and then you expect this will somehow yield positive results.

It’s subversive because you’re not arguing, but you’re writing off. This is evident in how cherrypick among facts. Players aren’t trained professionals, so you will hear ignorance from them them but there are constructive feedback threads and responses from those very players. I’d use Xeph’s thread as an example, but I’m not sure that ANet wants me to believe it exists anymore. I’ve made several threads in vain of being constructive as well.

i dont think you understand what subversive means.

if i were writing these opinions off, id be saying the game is perfect and you have no reason to complain, but im not. im saying the manner by which you viciously attack people youve never met and dehumanize them into your personal programming puppet slaves and verbally lash out and discredit all the work theyve poured into this game over the years with all-encompassing miserable basement tantrums, all following suite with a few “opinion leaders”, will create a bulwark of mutual distrust and contempt which will only lead to decay.

Viciously attack? lol Dehumanize into personal programming puppoet slaves. My, you should Fox news or something, you’re quite talented. I’ll respond again once you actually address the point and my issues rather than to subversively attack me.

Tellah.8073:

TwoBit.5903:

Isn’t this thread subversive in the exact same way? Belittling opinions of a demographic through passive aggressive remarks?

if i were being subversive, i wouldnt want the game to work. if the pvp community showed a little more repect and gratitude, than i could only guess that devs might be slightly more motivated to work on pvp with positive outcomes.

what im pointing out is that this demographic is the one causing the biggest problems because of the generally mean-spirited aura surrounding it. no i dont think anet staff are saints, no i dont think the game is perfect, im simply pointing out the lack of common courtesy amongst the community and the perpetual demoralization that it causes.

i see staff making informative, very pleasant, non-scathing posts about whatever, and i see the pvp community erupt in ignorant attacks and slander about stuff they have absolutely no clue about every time, and then you expect this will somehow yield positive results.

It’s subversive because you’re not arguing, but you’re writing off. This is evident in how cherrypick among facts. Players aren’t trained professionals, so you will hear ignorance from them them but there are constructive feedback threads and responses from those very players. I’d use Xeph’s thread as an example, but I’m not sure that ANet wants me to believe it exists anymore. I’ve made several threads in vain of being constructive as well.

Maybe childishness is the result of the Devs blissfully ignoring constructive feedback from players.

It’s the responsibility of the speaker to make sure his audience understands his points. If players have issue with Jon it’s because he either didn’t communicate his point well enough or that the players just flat out disagree with him.

Isn’t this thread subversive in the exact same way? Belittling opinions of a demographic through passive aggressive remarks?

The ones that hate sPvP are the vocal minority obviously. The devs are clearly voicing the opinion of the silent majority, the demographic that only ANet are conveniently aware of and are somehow a good gauge of quality despite being silent…

Or it could just be PR fluff, like most of the articles of recent. Push comes to shove, sales are more important than honesty.

I see. So NASCAR is the epitome of eSports. Players don’t watch for the strategy or artistry of play, but for the flashy explosions and accidents I’ll go forward that to the Riot development team. They’ve had it wrong all this time! The numbers clearly indicate that GW2 is the superior spectator sport. Oh wait…

Knote.2904:

Oh yeah… and “Our focus right now is making a game type that is easy to watch and understand. That is one of the things we have accomplished so far and we want to keep that concept”.

What. They have not accomplished that, not by a long shot. You’d probably would have an easier time trying to learn ancient Cantonese than whatever the hell is going on in an sPvP fight.