Guild Wars 2

It should be part of sPvP.

Tons of players want guild-affiliated spvp. Tons of players want more than 5v5 spvp. Tons of players want more than conquest-only spvp.

This stuff is all obvious.

Fights between guilds?

Sounds like a cool idea for a game called Guild Wars 2.

We just lost a fully upgraded Bay keep because the enemy could shoot through walls and hit anywhere within range of their arrow carts, regardless of walls and normal line-of-sight.

What should have been a fun fight was quickly over as arrow carts blanketed every inch inside the keep (including our siege, which couldn’t fire back), through the walls.

This is a well-known exploit, easily achievable by windowing the game and quickly adjusting the screen proportions.

Any word on when to expect a fix? Because it’s no fun losing a fully upgraded keep like that. It’s obvious that it wasn’t intended by normally achievable screen zoom/proportions.

Okay. So if someone is god-awful and literally AFK, pointing out that their (“A—-F—-K” is censored WOW nevermind you’re all [cluckin] weirdos) is why they failed to achieve something is an “insult” and therefore against the TOS.

Yeah that’s stupid. Oh crap, that’s an insult. So let’s ignore that I was banned for language and remove this post for an “insult” and ignore that I was banned for language.

Such “insults” you refer to happen ALL THE TIME and wayyyy worse than I engaged in. I was banned, to the best of my knowledge, for a single message. And all of your horse[spit] conjecture is worth no more than… horse [spit].

I didn’t realize you can’t even say “AYE—EFF-KAY” on the forums. Wow. Nevermind. Later.

It was gameplay-oriented discourse.

People were complaining about ineffectiveness while effectively (AFK)ing.

While your link refers to a generally-admirable axiom, it doesn’t answer my question. Which words are auto-ban words?

When inactive players complain about progress in WvW, can we never comment on their inactiveness or be banned? To some degree, pointing out that they’re inactive is certainly not saying something nice. The TOS does not include notice of bans on the grounds of such commentary.

You’re saying it’s policy to ban anyone for pointing out that the inactiveness of inactive players is the reason for the lack of progress they complain about.

I’m just asking for a more formal declaration of this policy.

I think you are incorrect. I think it was a matter of language (I don’t know. No notice. No email.). Either way, a formal declaration would be sweet.

I was just banned for 70+ hours for using some words to describe a few commanders and players running back and forth, jumping up and down, doing nothing in WvW, while complaining about things not happening.

I have received no notification as to why I was banned. I have received no email, nor in-client message. The words I used were in one single message in map chat, not repeated. (as someone stated they reported me for)

These words were not used to disparage any individual or group. I named no one. In my culture, these words refer to weak people, incapable of distinct action. Comparable words would be “weakling,” or “invalid,” or phrases like “girly-man,” etc. While not necessarily politically-correct, they are widely-used terms not denoting hate nor derisiveness to any individual nor group.

Can’t sensitive, politically-correct minded people be protected from such subjective language by filters? Why was my account banned for a single message, the content of which I was never informed would be considered objectionable?

Can we please get a list of words which, used a single time, result in bans?

Can I say “commie”? Can I say “tea-bagger”? How do I know how PC I need to be to not get banned for a single map-chat message regarding gameplay in casual terms?

Trolls use these unknown words to get people banned. It’d be good to know what’s on the troll-bait list.

Solo queue “competitive” play? GG, RIP.

Everyone does. Since the betas. Still waiting.

Decrypter.1785:

Just wanting to know if we will see GVG with ladder n rankings , like GW1 ?

No. Check back in a couple of years.

The number of games it takes for “solo queue” (that’s how you spell it) ratings to mean ANYTHING with random teams of 5v5 is ridiculously high.

1v1 takes a certain number of games for players to reach a reasonably accurate rating. 2v2 with random teams takes twice as many games. 3v3 with random teams takes the 1v1 number of games to the third power. ETC.

And, if the base rating doesn’t start at 0, it’s even worse, as a constant influx of new players with inappropriate ratings constantly skew ratings.

Ratings for individuals in random teams [of such sizes as 5v5] are always gimmicky nonsense, implemented knowingly, in the interest of pleasing the ignorant who don’t understand basic mathematics.

I don’t mean to offend anyone’s intelligence, but this discussion has been had a thousand times before in the forums of other MMORPGs. There are people that understand the math, and people that just want a number to exploit/brag about without understanding how that number is calculated and why it’s often nearly entirely meaningless.

Stated differently, you cannot competitively engage in 5v5 strategic gameplay queued solo. Everyone wants to pretend to be competitive without being competitive. Sorry, you can’t have it both ways. The desire for a rating doesn’t negate basic math and give that rating meaning.

Mesmer mechanics just don’t fit well in this game.

Fought 2 summon necros running with a mesmer the other day (sticking close together—they knew what they were doing). It was a headache just to get a hero targetted.

Do we have a “tab doesn’t target minions” or “disable targeting minions” options? No. We fight the UI.

Two+ mesmers is similar. If you get enough other units close together, just targetting them is a pain. Again, you fight the UI. Everyone is moving, and they gain seconds every time they drop target because of UI functions.

I’m sorry, but this is not a pvp game.

I watched/listened to hours of developer interviews waiting for the game to be released, and it was made very clear very many times that the game would be balanced around 5v5, and 5v5 would be its competitive play.

If you don’t mind it being broken, then what’s the problem? :P

My team just got bugged out of a free tournament fighting for first place.

Frees are pretty relaxed. We were having fun. The world isn’t ending. But the game isn’t AAA. It’s been 5 months and it’s buggy all over, from the interface to queue up to bugging out of a match in round 3.

Speaking of bugs, I’m completing my February monthly in January. Doesn’t make any sense.

It’s so broken and neglected that the awesome core mechanics are going to waste and players are leaving. (those than haven’t already)

This effects us all.

If your purpose is nuking, there are better options. Being a necro with an axe and trying to nuke just means you’ve gimped your team and should be playing another class.

firebreathz.7692:

can i ask when you state “the game is not intended to be balanced for 1v1” is there any arenanet post that says this or just from the player base?

They’ve said about a thousand times that the game is balanced for 5v5 conquest.

sPvP isn’t anywhere near AAA. Don’t hold your breath.

Sadistis, a lie is a lie. Saying “this is our goal with this game,” then making absolutely no attempt to reach that goal is a lie. Lying about it doesn’t change anything.

The game is easier to balance if it has cookie cutter specs and crappy specs.

In a word, “no.”

You can come up with some sort of build that’ll use it. But your build won’t be nearly as good at its role as other classes. You’ll gimp yourself and your team.

The answer is pvp isn’t complete, nor a priority.

firebreathz is incorrect; the game is not intended to be balanced for 1v1. There’s no “yet” about it. They’re obviously not waiting for something which they have no intention of ever doing to implement dueling. That’s logically inconsistent with their stated intention to get around to adding dueling… eventually.

I play a mesmer. I disagree. They’re not THAT inherently fragile. And I play a glass shatter bomb much more often than confusion bomb (significantly more survivable).

The fact is, mesmers do have a number of target-drop, oh-[kitten], and invulnerability skills available. And, short on those, there’s always daze when you’re in a pinch.

I like my mesmer. I play it often. I don’t think it’s horribly overpowered, but kitten if it doesn’t have tons of utilities available for all kinds of situations. It’s very demanding to play, but I think it’s totally inaccurate to say they’re inherently squishy, supposedly balancing out their strengths. I don’t think they’re that squishy, even built [well] as glass.

That said, I don’t think they’re horribly overpowered—though they can be, given stealth rendering issues still present 5+ months after release. I just think they’re annoying to fight.

It’s been 5+ months. No, obviously sPvP is not a priority. It’s just a fact.

The list of broken and neglected things is too long to even bother posting here.

Their class mechanics don’t fit very well into this type of game. Unfortunately, they’re a GW class and they’re not going anywhere, nor are their core mechanics.

What rmBossa said is funny because it’s exactly how PvE lessens a lot of our fun with WvW—W/o PvEing, you can’t have the best gear for WvW.

Presumably QP will be removed or made irrelevant. It’s not competitive-gaming-relevant (sorry I think the term “esport” is silly :P). It doesn’t measure skill, which is the only thing that should matter. (rating)

Activity should be a result of competition and fun. Artificial annoyances designed to prod people into playing more matches than they would otherwise detract from the game.

Bella.6432:

The old saying, “The squeaky wheel gets the grease” became a saying because of the truth behind it. Sad to say it is not always a good thing, as the squeakers are just given that grease to shut them up and for no other good reason. (And certainly NOT because they speak for the rest of the players.

But what of their constructive criticism do you disagree with? It’s all well and good to contest that complaints are legitimate and representative of many players, but you’re being a bit vague here.

The fact that sPvP activity is so abysmal for the sequel to a game which had so much PvP enthusiasm suggests that at least some of the squeaks you’re hearing represent the displeasure of many players who’ve just stopped playing, at least for the time being. Whether or not they come back (and many of us keep playing) depends on the changes that happen in the coming months.

I’ve very rarely posted on these forums since some feedback during the beta weekends. I really enjoy the game’s mechanics. I think it has a lot of potential. But I think that most of that potential in regard to sPvP is wasted with one game mode, an unrefined point system for casual play, and a tournament system of competitive play which never should have made it past the idea phase.

These things have led to the terribly limited population which makes free tournaments (or, ideally, will make PUG 1v1s w/rating in the future) too time-consuming for many people to bother putting together.

A game needs a thriving casual base for competitive play to thrive. WoW arena became such a tiny minority activity because there was no place for casuals in it. GW2 sPvP has become such a tiny minority activity because there’s just so little for casuals to do in it—one game mode, where you’re rewarded the most for bad play. As is obvious from the server lists, there just aren’t that many players into it.

I’m focusing so much on casual play because it’s the player base from which players learn the game (or, in this case, don’t), shape up a little and get interested in competitive play. Without a player base, the community’s tiny, and it’s a novelty game that’s harder and more time-consuming to get into. (and less enjoyable)

Zyrusticae.7245:

You CANNOT take 7 months to FINALLY introduce some sweeping changes to the game. It’s too late! It’s already too late, and taking even MORE time is just adding insult to injury.

The PvP side of the game receives so little support it’s absolutely laughable. Any other PvP game, especially the MOBAs, have been receiving several times as much support and actually seeing changes that shake up the meta in some way. Here? Nothing. Nothing at all.

I think here you’ve summed up the worst part. I think most of us are here because we love the game’s mechanics and think it has a ton of potential for sPvP. But there’s just been so many errors in development and implementation which haven’t gotten any attention whatsoever in 5+ months.

With a target date of 7 months for changes we all wanted at release (and still having very little idea what nearly any of those changes will be), does anyone have confidence that sPvP is a priority? I find it funny to even ask that question, given the delay in sPvP development.

butch.8136:

We can whine about it all we want. It’s just the fact. I would love to have seen these things at launch or very soon after but it’s not. They’ve set the deadline to febr/march since december (i think), so we can only wait.

It’s certainly a legitimate point that we have a target date, and whining is unproductive. It’s a wait-and-see period now, after the past 5 month wait period.

I think the problem with this is what it still means for the community to have waited so long. Even if the update is significant and shows very good progress (which hopefully will be followed up with before another 7 months), there’s the matter of the number of players. Just because the game (no sub) is easier to come back to doesn’t mean players are necessarily more likely to return.

Time is of the essence. Though, of course, this doesn’t make whining productive, none of us want to be a member of a community of a couple hundred, if that, playing sPvP (hot join doesn’t count). Even if things get fixed, that’s just kind of embarrassing. We want a better and larger community than that, and that requires attention.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Pugging free tourneys is currently the closest thing to casual PvP we have…. In free tourneys, you’re likely to get a decent match every other queue or so on weeknights.

I should probably do that more often for casual play. My problem is that I hate solo queuing because it’s just not competitive, and it’s usually crickets when looking for more PUG teammates.

I’ve put together some PUG groups from guild members, friends, and random people. I’ve had fun doing frees with PUGs. But I generally find it’s more trouble than it’s worth. It just takes too long because not enough people are PvPing.

BonzerSkate.6275:

I don’t think everyone realizes how hard developer work is, everyone is expecting them to design all kinds of new stuff from scratch while making changes to stuff that’s already in the game. Have you ever programmed for a Triple A title? No, just be patient.

I think the problem is that the sPvP in GW2 just isn’t Triple A:

One game mode 5 months after release.

Buggy hot join join/full error 5 months after release.

A tournament competitive structure which was obviously terrible finally maybe starting to get fixed 5 months after release.

A point system which rewards bad gameplay resulting in losses more than good gameplay—which goes a long way to make hot join gameplay the complete rubbish that it is—unchanged 5 months after release.

@O S I A S

If he wasn’t referring to hot join, then I was just poking a little fun. Obviously, frees/paids are functional with some actual competition and team-oriented gameplay.

I was venting about about the complete rubbish that the game’s casual spvp is. tPvP’s problems are obviously significantly different from sPvP’s hot join rubbish, but his OP wasn’t specific so I had some fun.

The beer reference suggested to me he meant non-competitive play. Though I am not objecting to a couple for tournament play. For some people it reduces hesitation and speeds up reaction time!

I really hate the idea of frees, or any rated play, involving solo queues. It’s a matter of mathematics and calculating player ratings with random teams and a potentially large player base. For random teams, every additional player on a team means more games necessary to produce an accurate rating.

Add in an influx of new players (who often aren’t started with a 0 rating, messing things up even more), and you have a constant source of people with inappropriate ratings inappropriately affecting other players’ ratings.

The fact is, ELO/TSR ratings for 5v5 games with random teams like DOTA are mostly there just to make ignorant kids (and adults with the math educations of kids :P) happy to have a number to manipulate/be proud of.

This is obviously just for random teams. And some of your other ideas—and there are many more—have a lot of merit. There’s certainly a lot of things that could be done.

The fact that the current tournament system was ever programmed and implemented is a negative sign, however, considering that it’s literally as if they thought up the worst possible system then spend time and money putting it into the game.

I’ll have to spend some time on temple this week. Unfortunately, I haven’t been on much for weeks and don’t have a team handy anymore. But it is certainly a positive sign that they’re thinking about getting away from the horrible tournament system (as a basis for pvp, rather than ratings—there’s nothing wrong with occasional tournaments) which never should have been implemented.

I didn’t mean any offense to Waffles; I was poking fun in asking what he was referring to. My complaints stated here were all about casual sPvP being complete rubbish. I found his response to be very appropriate and even bit insightful. I’ll listen to the crickets and put together more PUG teams, if I have the time to wait for players.

I thought hot join was already zombie mode.

It’s broken.

It’s been broken since the betas.

It’s terribly annoying.

WaffylesYay,

Is it because you enjoy mindlessly zerging around in hot-join? Some players do enjoy being rewarded for play which does not result in wins for their teams. And ArenaNet presumably encourages this, considering their point system remains unchanged to any degree.

It’s not very many, though, judging from the number of people participating in sPvP.

Personally, I’m bored as [kitten] of it. Tournaments can be fun, but who wants to play competitively all the time? There is no casual play in this game. It’s competitive or complete garbage. And when talking competitively, there are some balance and mechanics issues that could use some attention.

But if you enjoy rolling around randomly in hot join without regard for winning a match, sure. There’s certainly some of you guys having fun with that. But there’s a lot of people who don’t enjoy that.

I thought we were supposed to have options from watching hours of developer interviews before the game came out.

I’m a bit disappointed that there’s no attempt to give any class the capacity to do more than 1-2 roles remotely competitively in PvP. Some trait lines just exist to troll new players, because no competitive player can possibly justify some build choices.

The same applies to some weapon choices, even if a player traits and chooses stats (gear) to compliment their build. The game just isn’t balanced to make some options feasible, ever. Now it’s been openly stated that it won’t be.

I understand that it’d be difficult, but I expected a tour-de-force from all that had been said, or at least a real attempt. Obviously balance with so many factors and builds is difficult, but I think that never having tried is a waste.

The game combat is fun, and the mechanics to give players actual options for builds (trait lines, weapon options, stat (gear) options) are there. But no attempt to balance any class for more than one or possibly two roles has ever been made. Other builds are intentionally left weak so balancing them is irrelevant because they’re not remotely competitive.

I meant the idea, not it’s implementation. :P I stopped playing after a few months, along with everybody else.

I think the resolve bar in SWTOR was about literally the only thing the game did right.

What you propose here is supported by a tiny minority of players, and Arenanet has never hinted or suggested they’d consider anything even remotely like it.

The game wasn’t built for what you propose. It wasn’t marketed to players as the sort of game you propose. Literally no one involved in the creation of the game has ever whispered of even thinking about what you propose. And it would be a radical alteration to the game, which already has established customers.

I’m not sure if your thread is trolling, or just plain stupid.

If anyone’s trolling, presumably it’s the guy with the outlandish idea with 0% of being picked up to any degree insulting others’ intelligence.

Cookie cutters and build options are a game balance issue. If certain cookie-cutter comps and builds dominate and there’s no competition, that’s on Arena Net to balance the game so that other classes/builds can compete in those same roles.

This game offers a much better framework for actual options in builds than most, but they obviously need significant balancing work. And it needs to be made clear that some trait lines are just there to troll new players, because ArenaNet has recently made clear they do not intend for all professions to be capable of all roles in the meta, no matter the build/weapons/utilities/gear.

It’s no player’s fault that the best option for a role is so undisputed, or that he’s playing well.

The issue of organized teams “farming” free tournaments is one of incentives, just as the lack of people PvPing is.

There need to be rewards for paids that those organized teams care about, and the rewards for frees need to become marginal for them after they’ve won tons of them and established they can do so pretty consistently. They need to be motivated to take the next step, and motivation for them to remain in frees needs to be reduced.

On the other end of the spectrum, PvP needs to be incentivized and made open to the largest possible player base. Teams that can win paids farming frees is what ruined WoW arena for the casual player: There was no bracket for casual players. You wouldn’t even get to a rating that stopped matching you against decently ranked opponents until you lost 50 games.

Nobody enjoyed that. Casuals stopped doing it entirely—not because they didn’t like arena pvp, but because the only arena pvp available was 95% opponents who facerolled them w/o any effort. Better teams need to be motivated to move on so casuals can have their fun.

As mentioned, there need need need to be more game modes. sPvP doesn’t have a real progression beyond bragging rights and sexy looking gear. We’re all doing it just for fun. It needs to be as fun as possible, regardless of whether all game modes offered ranked play now or ever.

As has been pointed out, there are all kinds of game modes people really, really enjoy (much more than conquest). People also enjoy variety and options. The game needs them.

That’s pretty awesome.

Rezz.8019:

Comparing a MMO game to some japanese fighter game is just lol… I hope you know that many of those people have serious creativity problems.

They’re completely different, and Anet did want to get everyone on the same level. Meaning: if one player is good and can protect himself against burst all day long, but other player isn’t, it would lead to unfair advantage.
Also: bursts would become useless after a while as everyone would learn to play, and it would just be bunkers all the way.

What does the MMO element of GW2 have to do with sPvP 5v5 combat?

I’m pretty sure Arena Net never intended to remove the advantages gained by skill, as you claim. There’s nothing unfair about gaining advantage by avoiding damage better than someone else.

Until you win tournaments with 5 bunkers, we can all rest assured you’re wrong about the future of the meta as well.

There’s nothing “completely different” about action-oriented combat vs action-oriented combat. Games, including RPG-type games, have come a long way since 8-bit turn-based combat where characters had virtually no direct interaction.

It’s obvious that such elements as the OP suggests are already in the game and were intended to be. Many powerful abilities require channeling (can be interrupted), immobilize the caster, are more difficult than average to connect, etc.

The discussion here is whether there are enough of these elements in the gameplay of some bursting mechanics, and if they’re done as well as they could be.

My guess is that most competitive PvP players would choose to show off their accomplishments via high tier gear, so not many of that already limited player base would use the shop much, so Arena Net just didn’t bother.

Why would I be offended by generalities concerning a host of changes you’d like to see which aren’t going to happen?

I just pointed out that the game was never marketed, hinted, suggested, or otherwise expected to have such non-rpg, full-action targetting.

I’m all for changes, but you might as well ask for jet-packs as such a change as Coffee proposes here. I was just pointing out the obvious. No offense intended if you want to talk about something which will positively never happen, which a majority of players don’t want anyway. Continue!

I’m disappointed by the lack of attention to sPvP in general.

Everybody is bored of conquest-only, at least for casual (non rated) play, but that’s all we’ve got 4 months after release with barely anybody playing sPvP.

The servers/system are/is still buggy; it’s annoying just joining servers.
(clicks to join server at 14/16
waits 10 seconds
is told server is full
selects “Play Now”
is put in a 2v3 match
repeat!)

On top of this, we don’t get any festive skins. No candycane hammers to hit people in the face with. No icicle daggers. No Santa hats.

I wouldn’t mind a Santa hat to wear all through the summer.

Hopefully sPvP gets the attention it needs, rather than a write-off because it’s not the money-maker. It could be more of one, but the longer it takes to get the attention it needs, the less likely that becomes.

The game just isn’t designed for it. That’s a much more action-oriented mechanic and this is an action-oriented RPG—It still has and was always intended to have those RPG elements.

I couldn’t agree more. I love the game’s action-oriented combat, but I think it needs some attention. I think the OP’s points are thoughtful and well-stated.

Burst is, of course, appropriate and very necessary. But, as it’s a more action-oriented game, it needs to have its place in combat. 10k+ damage with quickness in 1-2 seconds with no visual cue or lead-up isn’t the appropriate place.

And you can’t show off your spvp skins in pve/wvw either.

Yer playin’ a pve game, mate!

Agreed. I want to compete with players, not fight the UI.

There’s certainly skill and strategy to it (tournaments), but it’s too largely the wrong things which constitute most of the challenge for many of us.

WoW arena became 90% about team composition and disable coordination. It was still skill-based and there was strategy, but it wasn’t the sort I wanted to play.

Coordinating roamers is and of course will always be important. Coordinating CC is and always will be as well.

But I’d prefer if the fights themselves were more important. I’d prefer the action itself and countering were more important to matches than they are now, where we can usually predict the outcome of a fight by the classes involved before the fight starts, regardless of who plays better. We know which role every class is (90% of the time), we know who’s going to focus who first, and we even know who’s going to tend to down who first most of the time. Before the fight even starts.

I suppose this is primarily a result of conquest being the only game type and the size of the spectrum between bunker and bursty roamer. But either of these can be modified. I hope some changes are made.

I’m more than a bit disappointed in the meta. I’ve stopped playing much, as have most of my friends. This is largely a result of conquest being the only game type and the bunker/burst meta it results in for obvious reasons.

I have a friend who talks about wanting to “break” the meta with some clever counter. But he can’t do it. More mobile, more bursty roamers just get the job done better.

The challenge of most games is more in the specifics of the fight and outplaying your opponent. In most tournaments 90% of the challenge is the coordination of blowing up your opponents with cookie-cutter FOTM bursty roamers. This just isn’t as much fun as more of the challenge being the fight itself and outplaying/countering your opponents.

Needless to say, hot join is even less enjoyable. The scoring system doesn’t incentivize others to play to win with you. So it’s back to cookie-cutter FOTM monster dueler builds to wrack up kills and points. That’s it. Hot join is just futilely playing to win w/o a team that cares, or pointlessly stacking up kills/points without purpose.

There’s just no competition. No intense fight for victory. It’s just roam around and kill for points.

I think all classes’ roles in the meta are in for some adjustment.

As a necromancer main, I can certainly feel your pain.

But the game was marketed as not having this particular meta, at least not so clearly defined and uncontested. I think all we can do is wait (and hopefully not wait months for every adjustment) and see where they’re taking the game.

Unfortunately, I think this is why we’re not seeing a lot of tweaks in the mean time. Compounding adjustments and balance with minor changes which don’t address bigger issues would just break things further, especially when bigger fixes and adjustments are ready for release.