Warrior
-HoT allowed warriors to run something other than greatsword. Condi warrior is actually a thing now, rather than the pre-hot days of power-or-bust
-Berserk mode added fluidity to the class. Core warrior felt extremely clunky to use and was rotationally simplistic. Berserk mode made it a bit more interesting to play.
Hambow ? Shoutbow ? The 2 builds that put warrior on top of the meta didn’t use a greatsword.
And berserk doesn’t add fluidity to the class, it litterally does the opposite.
Because at least you can hit a Rev every now and then. When fighting a DHs, all you see is “blockblockblockevadeevadeevadeblockblockblockimmuneimmuneimmuneblockblockblockandbacktofullhealthblockblockblockrepeat”.
While I agree that I may be biased against rev because they absolutely destroy warriors, I can’t agree with that.
Rev has just as much blocks and invul but they also have one of the best mobility in the game whereas DH has no mobility. Rev are much harder to hit than DH imo.
I realize i’m probably very biased against rev as a warrior player (base warrior, which makes it even worse).
But tbh I find DH rather enjoyable to fight. They have obvious tells to both their offense and defense, and if you play well they eventually run out of defense. Druids for example are a LOT more annoying to fight imo.
Maybe, but when the player can play rev it’s kittening ridiculous. Insane damage, sustain, mobility, boon sharing.
Maybe they’re “weak” to condis, but they’re total godmode vs non condi. And they’re not even THAT weak to condis tbh.
DH is a gimmicky class that’s super easy to deal with if you don’t play mindlessly.
Necro isn’t good 1v2 because it’s the only class that has no invul/block/evade etc, you’re just a damage sponge with shourd but it goes away pretty fast when 1v2.
Also not really much juking potential beside worm.
Every from HoT are just way overloaded with bullkitten.
I’ll just take Scrapper’s hammer as an exemple, auto attack has insane might + vuln stacking, #2 is kittening good damage (cleave) + reflect on a 6s cd, #3 has evade frame triple leap finisher on a good damage gapclose, etc etc.
Everyone (but necro and war) has access to evade/block/invul frame with like 50% uptime, it’s extremely frustrating to play against this.
People can spam AoE with 8 millions condi and cc on them, when I play base necro and I have no stability, I get locked down unable to use any skill for 10 kittening seconds straight.
I agree with OP, nerf kittening everything. And I mean BIG nerfs, not a little slap on the wrist, go back to when Hambow Condi cleansing was considered insane.
I main both War and Engi
When I play Scrapper I simply put a lot of poison
(Sigil of Doom, Fiumigate, Poison nades in a Marauder build, poison shell…)
on the war, and he will die very easy.
When he procs his shield, I proc Acid Bomb (unblockable)
I Always proc Stability to not be CC chained, and I never CC him (Rousing Resilience)
The best way to counter a class is to learn well how to play it
Countering it will be automatic
This really,ive 1on1’d on my condi warr vs a whole lot of people.Some know how to deal with it pretty well and making it hard for me to even land a proper burst and others get wrecked in 2 bursts.The thing is ..Avoid the freaking bursts.
How do you dodge pin down, shield bash headbutt and mace primal burst when you don’t play a bullkitten class with 8 billion invul/block etc ?
Warriors do not need a nerf to Adrenal health or thier sustain. Nerfing it’s kittening sustain was the problem in the first kittening place. It was the core problem of season 2. Cause warriors died so kittening easy that not even palladins amulet or soldiers amulet could save thier hide. Warriors have this healing, because they don’t have kitten like protection and regenration and stability en masse and other kittentons of boons to heal themselves or supprt thier blood. AH is litterally their lifeforce. They have a few boons and a bit of stability, that’s it. And even then thier AH is litterally dependent on their ability to hit you. Power warriors and the double melee condi warriors will suffer from this moreso.
I have to agree with Silberfederling. It’s kittening infuriating. This kittened crusade againsts class XYZ. And A-net caving everykittening time.
I don’t think it needs an nerf at all. But if anything should be nerfed it’s the condi damage. And that alone. No nerf to power at all.
NERF CONDI’S A BIT AND EVERYBODY WILL BE HAPPY.
Jesus christ.
The thing that kittenes me of more is that I know that the damage has been done already.
Honestly I wonder why I should even bother. really.
Yes, I’m crusading against my own main class, do you realize how stupid what you’re implying is ?
There’s a middle ground between the garbage AH we had, and the godlike we have now.
perma 450hps is way too much for just a single trait.
I was not talking to you in particular, just responding to the general “everyone want warrior to suck again”.
Warrior is very op currently and the fact that it was bad before is irrelevant. It doesnt need huge nerf, but it still does need some.
Lower AH healing (because it currently heals for more than HS) and really lower condition application and wars will be fine.
Power warrior is totally fine, but condi warrior is insane.
The amount of condition output they have is absolutely disgusting, especially on such low cd.
Completely agree. Condi output on warrior should be looked at.
And also need a fix on bow prima burst that cleans more condies than normal
Well mace primal burst is absolutely stupid, 4 conditions 2 of them with 4 stacks, + daze + blast finisher + gap closer with 5 second cd ? wtf is that bullkitten ?
well condi dmg originally came from gw1 conditional dmg. In other words you took dmg IF you did certain actions with a debuff on you. Like how confusion used to work… Now though it mine as well be direct dmg.
The sustain buff they promised us is negligeable, and now berserker stance is useless vs necros (but better vs rest).
There was a few good thing though with some cd reduction, and heabutt’s range increase, but overall it’s not a big buff.
Amulet removes/added are a good thing for war though, i’m doing quite decent on a mercenary hambow.
The worst part of this farce was the pip loss system. What kind of fool thought of punishing people for playing this game? This is the root of all the ill will, all the hatred directed at you pvp devs.
Pips and division are supposed to be something to measure your skill, not something to grind through to get your shiny, bad looking wings.
It’s a kittening good thing that you can lose pips, and as a matter of fact you should also be able to lose pips and tier in lower divisions.
Even without fast hands discipline is just too good.
And even if they make fast hands less mandatory, it will still be one of our best traits just for its ability to proc on swap sigils ( which are the best sigils in the game) twice as much.
I agree that it’s a good line otherwise, but I could imagine builds that would get more out of other lines if camping a weapon for 10s was more viable. We’ll just have to see… for all we know it was just meaningless fluff text.
Well, if you want to play a melee warrior, warrior’s sprint is also mandatory considering warrior is the only kitten class not having perma swiftness now, so without it you’d get kited for days (and even with it people outrun you)
The only classes with a lot of boons who are viable in the current meta are scrapper, revenant and bunker mesmer. And even if you face only those classes you are far away from having average +18%.
The 5 most played classes right now are :
druid
elementalist
mesmer (bunker)
revenant
scrapper
All of those classes spam boons all the time, and most of the time they have more than 6 boons on them.
Not to mention all the boonshare going on in a teamfight.
Not to mention that this increased damage may look nice on the paper but has nearly no impact in fact. Especally, against scrapper,revenant and bunker mesmer, warrior is lacking massivly because of the amount of blocks, evades and invulnerability those classes bring with.
+18% damage is +18% damage, the fact that the ennemy has a lot of block or not is irrelevant.
Destruction of the empowered helps as much to kill people as brawlers recovery helps to survive – they don’t – the benefit is marginal.
And if we are going to a more burst meta, warrior will probably be even more useless. Doesn’t matter whether you run DotE or BR. Dps warrior always has and always had a huge disadvantage in a pvp – burst meta compared to classes who have access to instant-spikes/stealth/teleports.
Last time we had a burst meta, warrior was in a “good spot” but not really viable, tho. You had to run shoutbow then which is already nerfed to the ground.
Guess how it will be now.
In this meta DotE is on average a +18% bonus damage on most classes. It’s basically berserker’s power on steroid (active all the time) and it’s our biggest damage increase in a single trait. I wouldn’t say it doesn’t help to kill things and the benefit is marginal.
Even without fast hands discipline is just too good.
And even if they make fast hands less mandatory, it will still be one of our best traits just for its ability to proc on swap sigils ( which are the best sigils in the game) twice as much.
Generally speaking all on swap sigils have an internal cd of 9 seconds. So by swapping every 5 seconds you bring bad synergy between more frequent sigil swaps and procs. Because of this it can be a bad idea to run the same sigil on two different weapon sets, forcing you to build into different sigils.
There aren’t any on swap sigil that benefits from being on both weapons sets beside intel.
Sure… so then you’re still, at best, only getting 1 proc out of a weapon swap sigil every 9 seconds (at the least) -_-u
There are no extra procs vs any other class/build swapping with a 10s weapon swap.
Other classes needs to put a sigil on both weapons to get as much procs as you, in that case you have double the amount of sigil.
My point was that fast hands procs a single sigil twice as much, so either you have double the procs or double the sigil, but either way it’s a huge bonus.
Even without fast hands discipline is just too good.
And even if they make fast hands less mandatory, it will still be one of our best traits just for its ability to proc on swap sigils ( which are the best sigils in the game) twice as much.
Generally speaking all on swap sigils have an internal cd of 9 seconds. So by swapping every 5 seconds you bring bad synergy between more frequent sigil swaps and procs. Because of this it can be a bad idea to run the same sigil on two different weapon sets, forcing you to build into different sigils.
There aren’t any on swap sigil that benefits from being on both weapons sets beside intel.
I don’t quite like your reworked condi/boons idea, but I do agree very much that condis and boon were in a way better and healthier state pre june 23rd.
They will never revert back to this though, that would be admitting that the condi rework was a mistake, and even a company like riot who’s really communicating with its community and listening to feedback almost never does this.
Even without fast hands discipline is just too good.
And even if they make fast hands less mandatory, it will still be one of our best traits just for its ability to proc on swap sigils ( which are the best sigils in the game) twice as much.
BR is good when you have other ways to reliably condi cleanse, but on its own it’s not nearly enough against the amount of condi a rev or reaper is able to put on you.
DotE is a huge damage increase in this meta filled with boons, the fact that your target has protection or not is irrelevant since it would reduce your damage without DotE by just as much.
We can’t have a build with good sustain right now (this might change after patch), so imo it’s better to go all in on what warriors can currently do well : blow up a target.
And tbh I rarely die to condi, with zerker stance and proper dodging i dont eat that much condi, and when i do get condibombed I have signet of healing active.
Right now DotE is way better than brawler’s recovery.
1 condi every 5 seconds doesn’t do kitten against the current condi classes, whereas every has a kittentons of boons making DotE effectively a +15% damage boost most of the time.
The point here is that if your team faces a team with 2-3 necros and 2-3 condi revs you almost certainly lose that match with a comp like 2x druid or druid ele + dps rev + scrapper + bunker mesmer just because the amount of conditions is too much and they do too much damage.
Again class problem, not mechanic problem.
Also condi builds need 1 stat for their damage and they can focus on building survivability while dps needs 3 stats to be effective.
Condi builds have different stats to boost its effectiveness: condition damage, expertise/condition duration and depending on trait setup precision. Second is that stats aren’t the only investment: traits, skills, rune effects , sigils, … are all possible investments for power or condi. Lastly even if there more options to invest in power then condi doesn’t mean that condi is more powerfull, it could just mean that power has a higher damage ceiling.
But still at the moment stacking conditions is way more efficient way to do damage in pvp compared to normal damage.
Nope.
Most dps build in PvP right now are power or hybrid.
I like you and yes, imo u’re 100% correct! Also protection doesn’t defend vs condis (and prot is everywhere T.T)
Exactly. The condi damage is too close to normal damage and normal damage has so many things affecting to it.
How about resistance negating all conditions instead of just reducing them by 33% ?
How about condi clears, removing all the burst you just did ?
There are more means to defend yourself vs condi than vs power damage. And this is why condi hits more than power (also because it does damage over time).
Currently conditions are a bit too easy to apply and they do too much damage. After this new update condition builds will skyrocket if nothing is done to them and it will be all condition to eliminate defensive aspects like block and invuln.
I’d really like to know where this comon misconception about condi being applied through invul and blocks comes from.
You know condi applies when you hit something, right ?
At least condi revs mallyx elite skill pulses conditions through everything while also triggering condition traits that passes through also. It doesn’t matter if you dodge, block, invuln, stealth… the torment from this skill will always apply to you. Also necro and rev has both unblockable conditions. You can test these by yourself if you want.
So this is a problem with rev, not conditions.
And only unblockable condi on necro are marks, which besides chillblains are absolutely not heavy hitters.
Currently conditions are a bit too easy to apply and they do too much damage. After this new update condition builds will skyrocket if nothing is done to them and it will be all condition to eliminate defensive aspects like block and invuln.
I’d really like to know where this comon misconception about condi being applied through invul and blocks comes from.
You know condi applies when you hit something, right ?
I don’t care for protection on warrior.
What I woulf like however, is for heavy armor to actually protect more from direct damage than medium and light armor, you know, like in every kittening rpg.
Obviously balance classes accordingly. It just sounds kittened to me that heavy classes barely have any defense bonus compared to light, a mesmer is basically tankier than a guard (not taking skills into account). Makes no kittening sense to me.
This kitten deals more damage than a full 100b from a glasscanon warrior, except it can be done on a bunker druid and it doesn’t require its target to stay still at melee range.
On the other hand it can be dodged easily, LoSed, is not instant (ranger f2 skill responsiveness is still a bit slow and unreliable) and dependant on the pet positioning (which you have only partial control of). That’s on top of pet being a glass cannon and dying very fast to anything that looks at it, and f2 being that pet’s only practical damage source.
I know that people are used to ranger pets being a joke and something you can ignore, but that definitely should not be a baseline.
Please don’t tell me you are trying to say that bristleback F2 is harder to land than a full 100b.
The warrior also immobilize himself to cast hundred blades leaving him extremely vulnerable, whereas the druid can use the machine gun and do whatever the kitten he pleases : spamming heals, kiting, evading, etc etc.
And it still doesn’t make up fort the fact that bristleback F2 does this damage no matter which kind of amulet you’re using. Wanna know how much a 100b hit for on a Tanky amulet ? Not much.
The worst part about bristleback F2 is that the attack is barely visible, I wouldn’t mind it as much if I could actualy know when i should use shield block before I lost half my health to it.
This kitten deals more damage than a full 100b from a glasscanon warrior, except it can be done on a bunker druid and it doesn’t require its target to stay still at melee range.
Be real druid players, this kitten is 100% broken how can you actually defend it.
Choppy is correct. Besides, it takes time to get your world completion, craft accendeds and get your legendaries. by the time he gets all that, the ballance changes will have gone through.
Don’t listen to people who only play what is best. You will enjoy playing warrior in anything except for sPVP. this is a game, have fun. listen to competitive players when you want to win. follow your heart if you want to have fun.
Even in PvP, warriors are enjoyable to play, and although they’re not great, they’re not nearly as bad as people say on forums, people are just circlejerking.
Ive climbed all the way through diamond playing mostly warrior (about 80% warriot and 20% necro) soloQ only and I’m currently halfway to legendary, which I do intend to get as warrior.
Im not circlejerking,i main a warr for 3 years..Atm i would not recommend a new player going for warr,rev would be the better most obvious pick to go for.They just have more to offer atm.
If it’s for pve only,then yeah it doesn’t matter much,think warr is pretty strong in pve still.
Sure, rev is stronger. But warrior is completely payable, especially against beginners, and if you enjoy warrior’s gameplay more, then play warrior. It won’t prevent you from climbing, and after all, gw2 is a game, so play what you find the most fun, not what you read is op on metabattle.
To be honest, how do you balance elite spec at the same time of balancing core specs? Seems like a promise that was very hard to keep. If Arcana would be buffed to be able to compete with Tempest, how do you keep this buff on Arcana from affecting Tempest at the same time?
I think the way is to buff, or add stuff to old abilities; it can’t be power creeping because those abilities lacked power before anyway. Diamond Skin should be oriented toward something a glyph or arcane skill could benefit from…
Right now you can’t, because besides necro, specializations are badly designed. They just gives you new things and doesn’t take anything away from you as they should. Except for DH, but the new virtues are just like the old one but better which is bad design too.
For a spec to be designed on a healthy base which can be balanced you need something like reaper : yes you get the new reaper’s shroud with mobility and stability, but you lose death shroud with aoe immobilize, instant feat, long chill etc. Sure right now reaper is mostly stronger but its just a matter of number tuning.
This is how every spec should have been designed, for example daredevil should give up steal (and rework new Dodge mechanic accordingly, for example each type of dodge should be f1 f2 f3 that you can swap on the fly at a cost, and you’d get actual GM traits.) Berserker should lose the regular F1 burst, and remove the cd on berserker mode, etc etc.
I don’t play other classes, but as a warrior/necro player, I do sometimes go back to base necro and base warrior because it works better in some situations.
So what of you lose a pip because of a DC ? Its not like it happens all the time. And a system that would prevent pip loss in case of DC would ne so easily exploitable that you’d all be here crying because of a bad system that’s getting exploited.
No team based competitive game deal with DC, and it’s for a reason.
Plus, you have more chance to have a dc in opponent team than in yours, so overall you’re winning from it.
Choppy is correct. Besides, it takes time to get your world completion, craft accendeds and get your legendaries. by the time he gets all that, the ballance changes will have gone through.
Don’t listen to people who only play what is best. You will enjoy playing warrior in anything except for sPVP. this is a game, have fun. listen to competitive players when you want to win. follow your heart if you want to have fun.
Even in PvP, warriors are enjoyable to play, and although they’re not great, they’re not nearly as bad as people say on forums, people are just circlejerking.
Ive climbed all the way through diamond playing mostly warrior (about 80% warriot and 20% necro) soloQ only and I’m currently halfway to legendary, which I do intend to get as warrior.
Necro is the only class for which the elite specialization actually is a different playstyle and not just a straight up upgrade.
They should have taken advice from the dev who did reaper for the other specs. It still needs a bit of work but it’s on a healthy base to work on. Other specs aren’t.
Geo and hydomancy are very much active sigil. They’re actually the most active sigil in the game since you decide when to proc it, and you need to play around them, unlike things like sigil of air.
Man, why do we hear thief players complaining so much when there are 2 other classes that are worse than thief.
Lol, what? What 2 classes do you think are worse than thief?
Warrior and thief are pretty much even in the bottom tier. Im really just curious what other class you think is weak, because all other classes are strong at the moment compared to these two.
You cant seriously believe thief/dd is in any way better than DH. DH can take a thief out while going afk on point. A thief has great mobility, sure, but DH just makes them explode no matter if you are on point or off point and in range of their long bow.
In othet words….You must be super terrible if you actually think DH is anywhere bear as bad as thief/dd
It just baffles me how people are this blind or just this bad at the game
DH are completely gimmicky, they have no mobility what so ever, are extremely easy to focus down and most of their damage is extremely predictable and counterable. It’s only good against bad players.
DD have extreme mobility, very good mostly unavoidable burst, are hard to take down due to their mobility and dodges, utility with team stealth, an elite that’s very good at finishing people off.
But yeah, you have to be better at the game to play DD than to play DH, so I return you the “compliment” : you must be super terrible at the game.
Also, a class winning against another in 1v1 doesn’t make them better than said class. I win 100% of my 1v1 vs tempest as warrior, warrior better than tempest confirmed ?
Man, why do we hear thief players complaining so much when there are 2 other classes that are worse than thief.
Lol, what? What 2 classes do you think are worse than thief?
Warrior and thief are pretty much even in the bottom tier. Im really just curious what other class you think is weak, because all other classes are strong at the moment compared to these two.
Because you think warriors players don’t get harassed ?
I get asked to reroll litterally 3 out of 4 games. Just tell them to kitten off or block them and prove them wrong. Those people actually motivates me to keep playing my warrior.
And btw
YOU (Anet) ruined the class, […] Instead all i see is more nerfs (since HoT) and people that harassed me are still playing.
