Guild Wars 2

YUP

Buff ACs ,Nerf aliens

BALANCE

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I love the change of arrowcarts, now make catapults able to be usable outside of AC-range again

Buff trebs and catas 80 % now and give them 33% more range like ACs.Yup that willmake things even.

As many already said .Problem does not stand in retaliation ,but in 100 ticks per second skill.

_I wouldn’t mind making it a net 50% damage returned to the player though ,but that will just make everyone QQ. Hoewver adding an ICD transforming normal cases(not flamethrower and barage) 1500 damage from 5 targets returned to 300 per second even if u hit 5 targets will be a 5x times less damage and pretty unbelievable .Not even confusiont took a 80% nerf in dps ,that is just crazy to ask for and i hope some of you will wake up and realize it.

Nokaru.7831:

Bananasmile.4126:

First of all, if you’re getting Retaliation damage, rest assured you are dealing much more damage to the Guardian

Total raw damage doesn’t really matter. If I did 30,000 damage but it was split evenly among 50 players, a few ticks of Regeneration nullifies this. However, if I even take 1/3rd of that damage, the average health of a player is cut in half. This forces you to burn your self-heal and back off, whereas the players you dealt “more damage” to did not even notice it.

Because there is a 5-target AoE cap, it spreads out the damage among the zerg, but all of the damage of Retaliation is focused on one player. Engineer Grenade Kit, Grenade Barrage, Flamethrower, Elementalist Meteor Shower, and Feedback are a few examples of multiple potential units of damage spread out over an area.

Very simply put: Until Retaliation gets an ICD, it will never be balanced.

Popular argument against ICD: “Use your brain, don’t attack someone with Retaliation.” Against a blob, should you always assume they have Retaliation? Are you supposed to target every single player before you AoE? The players benefiting from Retaliation don’t need to “use their brain” but the players attacking do?

The definition of “overpowered” is something that is easy to do but highly effective. Sounds like Retaliation to me.

Sorry but that is not how it works at all .You are really confused or disinformed.Retal hits for 300 per hit per target for a maximum of 5 targets.Lets say you have 30 k hp .If you can hit anyone 100 times in very few seconds to kill yourself than it is something really wrong with your class.

Caliban.3176:

Reann.9480:

I feel fairly certain in saying that the guilds, which might not be as “pro” as seems to be the requirement in this thread, in Piken Square are all hating this change.

Forcing everyone to blob up to do hours of boring siege warfare, requiring skill or not, is no fun to the small-med guilds running around the field in Piken used to taking on the odds.

There never was a requirement to be “pro” and no guild has claimed they were pro.
I can understand how the patch destroys it for your guilds and I really feel for you. I’m glad that you speak up here.

All the guilds on Piken Square really are pro .Any aspiring or respectable WvW guild out there should at least once take a holiday in their tier to experience the best fights.Fun unique experience and learning guaranteed.

. . .The End !. . .

New thread named " Titles no longer display in WvW"

Anet responds on the thread after 2 hours and 4 posts

I rest my case.

Retaliation itself should not be touched at all .IF they added a cooldown on it it would be completely useless against high burts classes.350 damage per tick lol u mad ? No.Players should use brains when fighting it and pay attention to buffs and the 5 man aoe cap pretty much makes sure you dont oneshot yourself ,cuz you can only hit max 5 ppl duuuh!Not limitless like some dream.

Ranger barrage and engineer grenades/flamethrower skills are ecxceptions and they are the problem here.Anet should fix how these skills proc too much retaliation and make it proc less not ruin retaliation wich is already stupidly low damage on big damage slow shots.

No one ever can oneshot himself even if fighting 5 ppl ,at max u can take 1.5-2kish damage from 5 hit targets(aoe cap).If a class has skills that can hit 5 targets per 0.1 second making that 50 targets per second means pretty much they have broken mechanics and those skills should be asked to be looked into not boons.

So this thread basicly means : Strategy?Organization?

HOW DARE THEY !?

NERF!

yriafelc.6124:

You can’t actually just wait until retal runs out though. A smart group will wait until you release barrage before shouting retaliation. And after a certain point, you cannot stop barrage anymore.

Still think it’s fair though. And Anet probably can’t make barrage cancellable without it turning into a channel skill.

Make it channeled or make it proc less hits,or whatever idk im not an expert of rangers or engies.

Also if people agreed that waiting 10 sec trough 25 stacks of confusion or instadeath was fine ,i thing waiting trough a boon that does 350 damage to you is really not a big problem If anyone even does that ever Lol

Confusion Mesmer

Because in one week they will be so rare that no one will have a clue how to counter it when u drop the doom on them.No one ever will see you coming
Pretty much like my condition longbow/swordhorn warrior .Love it when their like “Hey, a warrior ,activate chasing the free bag RTl gogogo shiny shiny kill xd” only to “Oh snap ,wtf, when did a train hit me or something O.O”

wish.1027:

graverr.6473:

wish.1027:

A Guardian who takes 10k backstabs should L2P. Also, thieves kill themselves with their autoattack and heartseeker spam into the brick wall that is a well played guardian. Retaliation is fine as it is.

Because only guardians have retaliation and god forbid you play with your brain instead of spamming skills with quickness like a robot right ?And cuz also getting 10 k damage in oneshot from stealth is a l2 kitten ue not a game ballance fiasco

My glass cannon thief regularly crits guardians with backstab for 6k or less, 6k being super high for someone with good defense and protection up, and my guardian regularly takes that from backstab. I think you just need to stop wearing berserker gear and then complaining that you get facerolled stupid fast.

1. I never mentioned 10 k hits on a guardian,especially not mine
2.More classes have access to retaliation ,if not from own source than from allies.
3.Can we move along now ?

Sacrx.6721:

Love you cya tomorrow. kiss.

Hope you stacked a kittenload of superior Arrow Carts.

wish.1027:

A Guardian who takes 10k backstabs should L2P. Also, thieves kill themselves with their autoattack and heartseeker spam into the brick wall that is a well played guardian. Retaliation is fine as it is.

Because only guardians have retaliation and god forbid you play with your brain instead of spamming skills with quickness like a robot right ?And cuz also getting 10 k damage in oneshot from stealth is a l2 kitten ue not a game ballance fiasco

Retaliation is more than fine.It looks to me instead that engineers an rangers and other classes that have 600 different ticks per skill/second in a very short time are broken an you should ask anet to fix them instead not ask to nerf a perfectly working boon.
Also taking a backstab for 10 k and hiving only 350 damage back from retal is a joke.So it prolly needs a buff in that direction if you look at it from the other side.

Psykoyul.9147:

Thank you so much.
But the players playing solo and wanting to kill a zerg don’t care about that.

Anyone else can find what is wrong in this picture?

Gab Superstar.4059:

graverr.6473:

Gab Superstar.4059:

graverr.6473:

Gab Superstar.4059:

elderan.2638:

You do realize that defenders can place AC’s so that they can hit a door but cannot not be hit by ANY attacking siege. This plus the damage boost means gate attacks with rams and golems get utterly decimated.

That’s not entirely correct. You can place rams really far away from the gate which makes them invulnerable to the Arrow Carts placed behind it.

Yeah cuz rams don’t need to be in melee range to hit at all.

Not really, no. The radius of their attack is quite large.

Cuz if i place an AC exactly behind the wall slightly left or right from the gate opening i cannot target outside at all and be in complete los safety from attacks right ?

If you place it directly behind the gate you can be hit by enemy arrow carts and Dragon’s Tooth.

Yes but IF you place an arrow cart NOT DIRECTLY BEHIND A GATE but covered by the wall,you can still clearly see and target outside especially if u are a norn,and your AC cannot be targeted by dragon’s tooth unless a zoomhack(cuz unable to click it).Also arrow carts that could target the same areat can be 1st nuked down by the AC inside,even before they get built.

Any of those tactics existed from the game’s laung so i really don’t understand what was the problem with defending prepatch.

Gab Superstar.4059:

graverr.6473:

Gab Superstar.4059:

elderan.2638:

You do realize that defenders can place AC’s so that they can hit a door but cannot not be hit by ANY attacking siege. This plus the damage boost means gate attacks with rams and golems get utterly decimated.

That’s not entirely correct. You can place rams really far away from the gate which makes them invulnerable to the Arrow Carts placed behind it.

Yeah cuz rams don’t need to be in melee range to hit at all.

Not really, no. The radius of their attack is quite large.

Cuz if i place an AC exactly behind the wall slightly left or right from the gate opening i cannot target outside at all and be in complete los safety from attacks right ?

This patch is meant to kill small group(20 ppl) play only Rip outmanned servers

Gab Superstar.4059:

elderan.2638:

You do realize that defenders can place AC’s so that they can hit a door but cannot not be hit by ANY attacking siege. This plus the damage boost means gate attacks with rams and golems get utterly decimated.

That’s not entirely correct. You can place rams really far away from the gate which makes them invulnerable to the Arrow Carts placed behind it.

Yeah cuz rams don’t need to be in melee range to hit at all.

Axle.5182:

AC’s are working fine the only people suffering the most are large pug and guild groups cuz your all to used to stacking on top of each other.

Maybe now you will spread out viz didn’t tonight and paid heavily for it so in effect id say this is a much welcomed change.

Because a 3-4-5 party group that can only carry limited suply is not at all suffering from this change .Cuz a 3 party group can build tons on trebs just because 1 defender is inside.Zerg wont even need to come and help the keep/tower cuz they just can’t take it unless zero defenders with the -50% hp of rams.Why would they bother.1 superior ac can akill all their rams in max 10 seconds.

You answering like this is exactly the sterotype of people defending this patch.Solo player that stays solo inside a keep wanting to negate the cap for 100 others by themselves .Balance ftw.

Heijincks.9267:

So? You still need to make those trebs in the first place, costing 100 supply each. Your point is moot.

Ok im done here.

I really wish there was some kind of upper ground siege range advantage in WvW .

Heijincks.9267:

3 trebs will take another 3 trebs to counter for the sake of currency (supplies)

graverr.6473:

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Then let’s put it to the test. List these spots and I’ll demonstrate if they can be hit or not.

No need too .I am not giving siege lessons for free like that .L2p before pretending you know how to siege.If less players were like you we wouldn’t be finding WvW in this embarrasing situation.

I will gladly show how to take down the ACs you are having trouble with.

Zoomhack ftw ?;) but i dont take exploit lessons ty .I like to play clean.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Then let’s put it to the test. List these spots and I’ll demonstrate if they can be hit or not.

No need too .I am not giving siege lessons for free like that .L2p before pretending you know how to siege.If less players were like you we wouldn’t be finding WvW in this embarrasing situation.

graverr.6473:

I can easily show anyone at least 20 spots in any tower where acs CAN’T BE HIT by trebs or outer siege.Argument invalid.Telling ppl to l2 siege while you lack in very important knowledge about is pretty funny.

There is no invulnerable siege in this game. If you don’t know how to take it down it is just your own lack of knowledge and not the game’s fault.

NO.There are spots where siege cannot hit due to towers arhitecture and angles.Your lack of knowledge about this still continues to be outstanding.People on your server actually you as commander ?No wonder you support the easymode ac buffs that reduce the ammount of strategies to just 1.And you have the nerv to call the rest of us unable to adapt .Unbelievable.

So, now, if want to take a keep, it’s a battle of managing your supply, and trying to prevent your enemies from getting it. Which is, in my opinion, a much more interesting meta than zerg balling everything.

So basicly if a server only has 10 ppl online and are outmanned at night they just shouldn’t cap anything at all right ?/ log off FTW. Or sit on an Ac waiting for the zerg to come to them. Great fun

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Sorenstam Blackrose.8425:

Jski.6180:

If you have 50 ppl standing still and not attking the carts them self i think they should die and not be able to take a keep. Do you think attking should be a guaranteed win? If any thing this IS the zerg counter that every one has been asking for.

How many of those 50 have means to be attacking properly positioned carts?

All of them. Back away from the gate, build a treb, destroy the arrow carts, return to the gate, build your rams, capture the tower, and carry on as usual. Your unwillingness to change your tactics in the face of the patch does not mean the patch is broken. It simply means you refuse to adapt and learn new tactics for accomplishing your goal.

And before you or anyone responds, “But we can’t reach every cart with treb fire! It’s impossible! AC is so OP!!!”, let me stop you right there. Any comment to that effect tells me immediately that the responder’s definition of a siege is to spam auto-attack at the gate and doesn’t know how to use anything other than a ram.

Learn to use the tools available to you. Practice setting up some siege weapons, test their ranges, test their firing arcs, test their blast radius, and discover their ideal placement. Do these things, and you can reach any location that a defender could build an AC that presents a threat to you.

Refuse to do these things by claiming it takes too long or is boring doesn’t equal a broken mechanic. It equals a player who is unwilling to adapt, change, or learn and unwilling to accept that their previous strategy won’t work anymore or won’t work as effectively as it once did.

I can easily show anyone at least 20 spots in any tower where acs CAN’T BE HIT by trebs or outer siege.Argument invalid.Telling ppl to l2 siege while you lack in very important knowledge about is pretty funny.

Cirus.5748:

I fully agree with this thread, Arenanet should remove Golems and Rams from the game seeing as they can’t last 30 seconds under a few arrow carts.

Remove Catapults and Ballistas as well, since their range is shorter than arrow carts and they are now redundant.

+1

Also remove Mass PvP from the game’s description pls.No longer available.

zepp.4109:

Next siege:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46GBjlUOROY

Nice But ac will prolly be buffed to counter it xd

Jski.6180:

Yes a small group can cap things with out the other team knowing for a full 30 sec you can nearly take down a door so from the point of view of the other team a small group is getting though doors faster then a zerg that show up as oranges swords.[/quote]

Nope.
1. Scouts
2.Since when the orrange swords can’t be controlled ?

WvW is dead for small groups .Alive for semi/afk ac sitters only.

Xsorus.2507:

Whaaa? So 20 defenders can’t build 4 or 5 superior arrow carts to defend against 50 ppl before tha patch? Really? I believe what you were experiencing was a chronic symptom of terrible defensive tactics.

Superiors didn’t do enough damage to stop a 50 man zerg before the patch.

I can safely say that in a zerg i’ve never been killed by a bunch of arrow carts shooting me prepatch.

The only thing that ended up killing me in a zerg before the patch was a bigger zerg.

[/quote]

8 months of exclusive videos of arrow carts zerg meltdown begs to differ..You can found them all on youtube.But nice try.

Xsorus.2507:

Lets see if I understand this right..

Before the patch, a group of 50 people comes up on a defended keep with arrowcarts, with say 20 defenders….

They blow through the keep and take it because 20 people with ArrowCarts couldn’t do squat against 50 people.

Now the 50 people are dying and are kind of mad they can’t take a defended keep anymore as easily as before?

Also the whole “Well small mans are screwed cause they can’t take a Supply camp with someone defending with and arrow cart”

That is a load of horsekitten by zergers who are mad they can’t out zerg people anymore.

I small man all the time, I solo all the time, I can safely say if you have an arrow cart in a Supply camp I’ll run in and kill you before you can kill me with an Arrow Cart, hell as a ranger i can send my pet in and he’ll kill you or the siege weapon and you’ll not be able to do squat about it (the guards won’t help you)

I’m sorry you guys can’t bum rush defended keeps anymore with massive numbers and take it…I’m sorry you’ll have to rethink your strategy, but don’t try and use Small Mans and Solo’s as an excuse to nerf Arrow Carts because you want to be a Sea of Bad and throw yourself against a defended gate.

Whaaa? So 20 defenders can’t build4 superior arrow carts to defend against 50 ppl before the patch? Really?We all have seen golem rushes melted by less. I believe what you were experiencing was a chronic symptom of terrible defensive tactics.Pretty much like everything you mentioned in your post.

Aeonblade.8709:

This just in, the US Navy is officially replacing the Phalanx CIWS with Superior Arrow Carts. Costs are expected to be in the trillions.

But still cost less than rams

If people in this thread were really against the zerg they would embrace the buff only being appied to outmanned.Period .Anything else makes no sense and actually encorages zerging the outmanned while gimping outmanned servers even more.

If a server has only 10 guys online and outmanned will never be able to cap any tower at all cuz of 1 person on AC.While the big server will run in circles capping their other stuff down.

FractalChaos.6539:

graverr.6473:

Defenders should ubstantial advantage YES.And that they already have for being covered by walls and having the tactical higher ground advantage + suply stack.

The rest of your post is probably brilliant, but I got hung up on this line. It has already been clearly and amply explained that;

1- PRE-PATCH, attackers could destroy any siege weapon simply by stacking in one spot and spamming AoE skills. The only way to defend was to have equal or better numbers and actually LEAVE the keep…the thing that’s supposed to be giving you an advantage.

2- PRE-PATCH, defenders standing on the wall were utterly useless. Bad coding makes it so that you can’t even shoot back at the people who are shooting YOU!! Do you get this? Do you understand this at all? You’re killing me from below, and the game says I can’t shoot you in the face with my rifle because manatees. That point isn’t even debateable, is it? Massed defenders standing on the wall are lining up to be converted into bags. Period.

3-POST-PATCH, attackers can still AoE down siege weaponry, and they can still yank defenders from the wall, and kill them on the wall. The only difference is that now, attackers WILL get killed and hurt some in the process, instead of typing “zzzzzzz…” in map chat while waiting for the gate to inevitably come down.

So please, explain to me how the walls and the height advantage were useful to the pre-patch defenders when being on said walls meant you couldn’t attack (bad coding), and couldn’t defend (all siege destroyed by stacked and invulnerable zergs).

Sorry but i have to strongly disagree.There are available many siege spots available inside a tower/keep that are unable to get destroyed by any aoe from outside of it,including counter acs and trebs plus anything in between and since we talk about acs ,all of them can target the gates or outside of them..Smart placed siege especially arrowcarts can be safe and attack the gate at 100% safety and that is a fact.The majority of players being obscured of these spots is not exactly making them any less available or strategicly advantaged.

Jski.6180:

graverr.6473:

Jski.6180:

Last point mainly so adding in a 30 sec lag time for under attk harms small scale teams? Your cherry picking parts of this patch for your point of view. If you hatted AC before the patch then your going to hate them after. This is just some evidences that ppl have been waiting for to kittenhis weapon (all be it very bad evidences with one video and a lot of hear say and pic of ppl putting up arrow carts).
The truth is ppl have wanted AC removed from WvW for a long time but these same ppl want all things removed from WvW they just want an open pvp game. They are trying to forces GW2 into something that THEY want and that the community dose NOT want

Ever heard of scouts ? I know at least 5 servers that constantly have 2 or 3 people inside ANY tower and that was prepatch.Argument cannot stand.

It dose stand because the 30 sec trick dose not harm the small man group it harms the zerg size group. Just because ppl can deal with it or not dose not changes the fact of what its aimed at.

???

So a small group can magically cap a tower/keep faster than a small group therefore small group = advantage over zerg ? I am amazed but AC defender replies .I really am.

Only a WvW player can press 1 by sitting still can kill 50 ppl/siege/champions.It’s called a buffed arrow cart .

Jski.6180:

Last point mainly so adding in a 30 sec lag time for under attk harms small scale teams? Your cherry picking parts of this patch for your point of view. If you hatted AC before the patch then your going to hate them after. This is just some evidences that ppl have been waiting for to kittenhis weapon (all be it very bad evidences with one video and a lot of hear say and pic of ppl putting up arrow carts).
The truth is ppl have wanted AC removed from WvW for a long time but these same ppl want all things removed from WvW they just want an open pvp game. They are trying to forces GW2 into something that THEY want and that the community dose NOT want

Ever heard of scouts ? I know at least 5 servers that constantly have 2 or 3 people inside ANY tower and that was prepatch.Argument cannot stand.

nagymbear.5280:

graverr.6473:

What can a 10 man team do now except of flipping camps…

They can build 3 ACs and clear the wall of siege, that’s what they can do. Everyone is concerned about attackers. Well here’s something to think about. A group outside of a keep can spread out. Defenders on the wall, not so much. Wait till zergs find out they can build ACs as well for attacking.

I believe you missed the part where ANY SIEGE standing inside a defending AC range is unusable,unlikely to get built at all or survive more than 5 seconds to deal any damage.Supply is wasted .Any lesser group than megablob or heavily outmanning the defenders = no melee(ac range) siege power because of low suply capability.

Any siege inside defending AC range = useless in prepatch.Only way to counter it is for the tower/objective has no defender inside wich is highly unlikely . The point you presented cannot stand.

If you assume that anyone except really experience commanders in siege warfare with thousand of WvW hours is contesting this change then you are terribly mistaking.These problems are raised by players that know every siege aspect of WvW pre and post patch combined and they are more datailed and valid than simple and unfounded “build counter” arguments.

I will merge a few posts in one WALL OF TEXT because i feel the ammount of Ac lover posts made them be lost in the spam. Please take a time and read this like many other extremely good arguments.Thank you
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

Defending against a big zerg was completely doable before patch.Happened every day and it was perfectly easy for 10 players to defend a tower against 60 for 2- 3 hours.The only difference was that the defenders had to actually use or posess a brain instead of just droping an arrowcart and completely negate 90% of possible tactics.Now is treb or gtfo.
IF you have a large zerg trebs won’t be a problem.However if you only have a 10 – 15 man group you can aswell log off cuz u wont be seeing any action except flipping camps every 10 minutes.
Terrible change for anyone that does not run a 60 man blob and completely gamebreaking for small teams to groups consisting up to 4-5 parties.It completely destroyed any tactical aproach to this game mode except running a a megazerg that is able to drop 10 trebs for 10 suply each.

spconder.2489:

I’m going to do the stupid thing an try to be reasonable about this.

Keeps and towers SHOULD be hard to capture. The whole point of building a fort is to give the defenders a rather substantial advantage, no?

Defenders should ubstantial advantage YES.And that they already have for being covered by walls and having the tactical higher ground advantage + suply stack.SUBSTANTIAL ADVANTAGE not WTFPAWN GODMODE .We can deal with dodge ,we can deal with being oneshoted ,we can live with using better organization and awareness,but we can’t deal that 1 superior ac and 1 player = rams not usable.

Rams and melee siege dies too fast .Acs were buffed 100% but melee range siege has the same crappy HP and it’s a waste of suply to try and build one.Also a small group of people can’t build a treb and and even one treb is completely useless to siege .Small teams are KITTENED no purpoise left for them other than flip camps every 10 min ,another great change thx PvP department.

With suply being stalled like never before due to latest camp buff changes and making low value siege like rams unusable things are over the top harder to mantain a proper siege against a defended position.Not to mention unneficient against same or larger defending force.Outmanned should just log off now cuz no way in hell anyone can cap anything.Anet basicly buffed the strongest server and you guys agree with it.

The only purpoise for rams now are for spies trolling a server’s suply and siege cap.Period.

AC buff needs to go and reimplemented only for OUTMANNED to actually help it’s purpoise and balance the game in the opposite of what they did with this patch.

The ammount of ignorace in AC threads is not even funny .Hur durr all day about "it’s ok to hold 50 ppl with 2 acs and YAY zerg buster " But they can’t be more wrong about it.
What about the small group ? What can a 10 man team do now except of flipping camps considering a treb costs 100 suply and it will take a tremendous ammount of time to destroy anything with it giving even 1 single ele time to suicide gank the treb down by himself befere doing any damage to the tower/keep.
THIS PATCH IS NOT A ZERG BUSTER PATCH at all This patch KILLED SMALL SCALE AND SMALL TEAM COMPLETELY. And it buffed the server that is not outmanned.Outmanned servers are even more kittened then before now.

TLDR
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

-AC buffed 100% > Rams and melee siege cuz still prepatch HP ammount
-Small scale is attacked indirectly because you need 10 people to build a treb.Only 1 treb is also useless so no point in trying.Also killed small scale fun.
-Outmanned servers are even in a worse position now.Biggest server has complete dominance now with no effort
-AC buff should be redesigned to OUTMANNED buff only in order to BALANCE unlike the actual the opposite of what this patched did.

I will merge a few posts in one WALL OF TEXT because i feel the ammount of clueless Ac lover posts made them be lost in the spam. Please take a time and read this like many other extremely good argumentsThank you

Defending against a big zerg was completely doable before patch.Happened every day and it was perfectly easy for 10 players to defend a tower against 60 for 2- 3 hours.The only difference was that the defenders had to actually use or posess a brain instead of just droping an arrowcart and completely negate 90% of possible tactics.Now is treb or gtfo.
IF you have a large zerg trebs won’t be a problem.However if you only have a 10 – 15 man group you can aswell log off cuz u wont be seeing any action except flipping camps every 10 minutes.
Terrible change for anyone that does not run a 60 man blob and completely gamebreaking for small teams to groups consisting up to 4-5 parties.It completely destroyed any tactical aproach to this game mode except running a a megazerg that is able to drop 10 trebs for 10 suply each.

spconder.2489:

I’m going to do the stupid thing an try to be reasonable about this.

Keeps and towers SHOULD be hard to capture. The whole point of building a fort is to give the defenders a rather substantial advantage, no?

Defenders should ubstantial advantage YES.And that they already have for being covered by walls and having the tactical higher ground advantage + suply stack.SUBSTANTIAL ADVANTAGE not WTFPAWN GODMODE .We can deal with dodge ,we can deal with being oneshoted ,we can live with using better organization and awareness,but we can’t deal that 1 superior ac and 1 player = rams not usable.

Rams and melee siege dies too fast .Acs were buffed 100% but melee range siege has the same crappy HP and it’s a waste of suply to try and build one.Also a small group of people can’t build a treb and and even one treb is completely useless to siege .Small teams are KITTENED no purpoise left for them other than flip camps every 10 min ,another great change thx PvP department.

With suply being stalled like never before due to latest camp buff changes and making low value siege like rams unusable things are over the top harder to mantain a proper siege against a defended position.Not to mention unneficient against same or larger defending force.Outmanned should just log off now cuz no way in hell anyone can cap anything.Anet basicly buffed the strongest server and you guys agree with it.

The only purpoise for rams now are for spies trolling a server’s suply and siege cap.Period.

AC buff needs to go and reimplemented only for OUTMANNED to actually help it’s purpoise and balance the game in the opposite of what they did with this patch.

The ammount of ignorace in this thread is not even funny .Hur durr all day about "it’s ok to hold 50 ppl with 2 acs and YAY zerg buster "
What about the small group ? What can a 10 man team do now except of flipping camps considering a treb costs 100 suply and it will take a tremendous ammount of time to destroy anything with it giving even 1 single ele time to suicide gank the treb down by himself befere doing any damage to the tower/keep.
THIS PATCH IS NOT A ZERG BUSTER PATCH This patch KILLED SMALL SCALE AND SMALL TEAM COMPLETELY And it buffed the server that is not outmanned.Outmanned servers are even more kittened then before now.

The ammount of ignorace in this thread is not even funny .Hur durr all day about "it’s ok to hold 50 ppl with 2 acs and YAY zerg buster "

What about the small group ? What can a 10 man team do now except of flipping camps considering a treb costs 100 suply and it will take a tremendous ammount of time to destroy anything with it giving even 1 single ele time to suicide gank the treb down by himself befere doing any damage to the tower/keep.

THIS PATCH IS NOT A ZERG BUSTER PATCH This patch KILLED SMALL SCALE AND SMALL TEAM COMPLETELY And it buffed the server that is not outmanned.Outmanned servers are even more kittened then before now.

spconder.2489:

I’m going to do the stupid thing an try to be reasonable about this.

Keeps and towers SHOULD be hard to capture. The whole point of building a fort is to give the defenders a rather substantial advantage, no?

Defenders should ubstantial advantage YES.And that they already have for being covered by walls and having the tactical higher ground advantage + suply stack.SUBSTANTIAL ADVANTAGE not WTFPAWN GODMODE .We can deal with dodge ,we can deal with being oneshoted ,we can live with using better organization and awareness,but we can’t deal that 1 superior ac and 1 player = rams not usable.

Rams and melee siege dies too fast .Acs were buffed 100% but melee range siege has the same crappy HP and it’s a waste of suply to try and build one.Also a small group of people can’t build a treb and and even one treb is completely useless to siege .Small teams are KITTENED no purpoise left for them other than flip camps every 10 min ,another great change thx PvP department.

With suply being stalled like never before due to latest camp buff changes and making low value siege like rams unusable things are over the top harder to mantain a proper siege against a defended position.Not to mention unneficient against same or larger defending force.Outmanned should just log off now cuz no way in hell anyone can cap anything.Anet basicly buffed the strongest server and you guys agree with it.

The only purpoise for rams now are for spies trolling a server’s suply and siege cap.Period.

AC buff needs to go and reimplemented only for OUTMANNED to actually help it’s purpoise and balance the game in the opposite of what they did with this patch.

evildan.8260:

Anatolian Turk.4057:

evildan.8260:

Kebab.4013:

evildan.8260:

Anything that cuts down on blobs derping down gates is a good move.

It’s like some people here have never heard of cats and trebs to get into places…

There are some people here not knowing what is fun about playing wvwvw…

I like a good siege myself- much more fun than blobbing up and zerging towers in some karma train.

But….it all depends who has the bigger blob. The server with greater number will eventually take down the tower or keep but it will take a bit longer than pre patch days. But re taking the lost tower/keep for smaller servers is going to be impossible now.

PS this isnyt going to stop the karma train but slow it down.

Not necessarily- I’ve been in some glorious 2-3 hour siege defences where the enemy outnumbered us something like 20-60, all our walls were down and we had no supply but we managed to hold and eventually push out and wipe the enemy because we’d got some siege up to hold the lord’s room and chokepoints, and most importantly because we were determined and organised. Eventually the enemy lost their fighting spirit and we pushed them out.

Granted that sort of thing happens rarely given the way WVW rewards sheer numbers, and it reflects badly on the enemy, but I find those fights far more rewarding than zergs autoattacking doors down and rolling onto the next target. Organised field tactics is part of the game, but being able to put up a good nuanced siege offense/defence is what shows a server’s character IMO.

Defending against a big zerg was completely doable before patch.Happened every day and it was perfectly easy for 10 players to defend a tower against 60 for 2- 3 hours.The only difference was that the defenders had to actually use or posess a brain instead of just droping an arrowcart and completely negate 90% of possible tactics.Now is treb or gtfo.
IF you have a large zerg trebs won’t be a problem.However if you only have a 10 – 15 man group you can aswell log off cuz u wont be seeing any action except flipping camps every 10 minutes.
Terrible change for anyone that does not run a 60 man blob and completely gamebreaking for small teams to groups consisting up to 4-5 parties.It completely destroyed any tactical aproach to this game mode except running a a megazerg that is able to drop 10 trebs for 10 suply each.

evildan.8260:

Anatolian Turk.4057:

evildan.8260:

Kebab.4013:

evildan.8260:

Anything that cuts down on blobs derping down gates is a good move.

It’s like some people here have never heard of cats and trebs to get into places…

There are some people here not knowing what is fun about playing wvwvw…

I like a good siege myself- much more fun than blobbing up and zerging towers in some karma train.

But….it all depends who has the bigger blob. The server with greater number will eventually take down the tower or keep but it will take a bit longer than pre patch days. But re taking the lost tower/keep for smaller servers is going to be impossible now.

PS this isnyt going to stop the karma train but slow it down.

Not necessarily- I’ve been in some glorious 2-3 hour siege defences where the enemy outnumbered us something like 20-60, all our walls were down and we had no supply but we managed to hold and eventually push out and wipe the enemy because we’d got some siege up to hold the lord’s room and chokepoints, and most importantly because we were determined and organised. Eventually the enemy lost their fighting spirit and we pushed them out.

Granted that sort of thing happens rarely given the way WVW rewards sheer numbers, and it reflects badly on the enemy, but I find those fights far more rewarding than zergs autoattacking doors down and rolling onto the next target. Organised field tactics is part of the game, but being able to put up a good nuanced siege offense/defence is what shows a server’s character IMO.

THIS.Defending against a big zerg was completely doable before patch.Happened every day and it was perfectly easy for 10 players to defend a tower against 60 for 2- 3 hours.The only difference was that the defenders had to actually use or posess a brain instead of just droping an arrowcart and completely negate 90% of possible tactics.Now is treb or gtfo
IF you have a large zerg trebs won’t be a problem.However if you only have a 10 – 15 aman group you can aswell log off cuz u wont be seeing any action except flipping camps every 10 minutes.
Terrible change for anyone that does not run a 60 man blob and completely gamebreaking for small teams to groups consisting up to 4-5 parties.

Post patch? Easy.The ones that can drop an arrow cart faster and run suply fastest.

………………

Doomdesire.9365:

Moleless.1462:

@Doom, warriors are actually surprisingly mobile, even before this patch.

Yeah, actually one of the most mobile classes I’ve seen. I just don’t think they should be that mobile. Just my opinion though :P

A mostly melee damage dealing class should not have mobility ?Mkaaay