Guild Wars 2

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/484cwj/why_the_current_matchmaking_is_flawed/

Here, I’ve done your job for you Anet:

1) Make it so new players start with low MMR, not average.
so that you are not grouping new players with no experience alongside average-level veterans.

2) Revert all other players’ MMR to where it was at the beginning of season 2 (veterans with at least 500 ranked games played, for example).
this will give everyone a clean slate (MMR-wise) for the remainder of the season, as it has been disastrous so far.

3) Reduce the variability of MMR for recently-played games for those players who have already played a lot of ranked matches.
so that losing streaks don’t get severely punished and win streaks don’t get extra rewards. some MMR change is necessary, but the current volatility of MMR is causing increasingly severe punishments for losing players and unnecessary rewards for winning players. losing/winning pips is enough of an incentive without worrying about an MMR death-spiral.

4) Put a soft cap on the total MMR difference that two opposing teams will have.
the maximum difference should be reasonable without creating only 50/50 matchups (60/40 or 70/30 might be fair). if a match within this range can’t be found within a reasonable amount of time, look for the closest possible matchup to avoid long queue times and prevent blowouts.

This would create a reward system based on actual player skill that still tries to create competitive matchups where possible. It also would allow players to play on alts or at non-optimal times without getting caught in a losing spiral. In addition, this would prevent newer players or bad players from being carried, while giving them matchups that are both competitive and fair.

Vague Memory.2817:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

well, the thing with PvP is that, if they cannot take 10-15 losses then they are not fit for pvp.

true PvP players will keep on playing and will become better eventually.

You make it sound like one person wins a team match. If you are personal scoring high all the time, what difference does getting better make in teams that loses 250-500.

Funny you should ask that.

Well, FYFI,

I just finished a match where we lost 485 to 500… all because this piece of human trash ele decided to go beast at start AND DIED TO IT. Fighting outnumbered, my team still managed to down 3 of the enemy team and finished off one of them in the first teamfight at mid. The rest of the match they were feeding the enemy points and bringing our team down. We probably would’ve done better if they were afk, and we certainly would’ve won IF THEY COULD SOLO THE kittenING CHIEFTAIN.

This sounds like pay2win to me; I definitely don’t support this idea. Yes, it can be frustrating, but losing points is part of the risk of queuing ranked.

Your logic makes sense, except for one small detail:

Teammates are chosen based on your current MMR (and your current tier and division) so if you lose an extra game or two here and there just to get the losing streak bonus, eventually this will lead you to have worse teammates than if you had just played your best every match. In contrast, your opponents are chosen ONLY based on your current tier/division (unlike season 1), so losing more games will also not change the level of competition you face.

Sure, some ppl might think it makes sense to lose on purpose to grind to ruby, but once they get to ruby (or perhaps even earlier), they will have to deal with the unintended consequences of tanking their MMR.

In short: the more games you lose, the worse your teammates are. It’s true that the losing streak bonus may help you grind to ruby, but I can assure you that this strategy is incredibly short-sighted and the ppl who do so will definitely regret their decision.

The last couple days I’ve played it seems like I’m facing at least 2 support bunkers (eles or druids) on every team. Matches are starting to feel very similar to last season. I’m thankful that I don’t have to deal with bunker mesmers, but matches still have a very slow, grindy feel to them.

Anyone else feel the same?

tl;dr —-——→ If you start losing a lot of games, stop queuing ranked. At least until more players of “average” skill level reach the division you are in.

Aenesthesia.1697:

This season started nicely, with a reasonable win streak. The best thing i noticed, is i was being paired with reasonable people. We could win or lose, but my teammates were ok.

But today something went horribly wrong. Now i am on a losing streak, and my teammates seem to be getting worse by the hour. We have lost games against teams with people that barely knew how to play their profession. The last match was the worst, with our team winning every teamfight but our thief commiting suicide again and again, and nobody keeping close-

I guess the game now thinks i am bad and pairs me with bad players. The thing is, i cannot win playing with these guys, except by chance. I can carry some games if my team is half decent, but i am not good enough to carry a team of horrible players to victory.

I am dealing with the same issue. I had an unbelievable win streak to start, I think I got about 3/4 thru emerald by the time I lost my first match. Recently, I’m like 2-8 in my last 10 games. As I think about this, though, I’ve played so many ranked matches that my MMR shouldn’t be changing all that much based on losing a handful of games.

Personally, I think the issue is this:

Most of the weaker players, and even average players, have probably rage quit due to the matchmaking these past few days. This leaves only the top 20% or so of PvPers (granted, with some exceptions), so now, it has become exponentially more difficult for the average player to progress. This difficulty is also amplified the higher your division.

Perhaps this could change in a couple of weeks, but for now, I will probably go the same route as many others and just stop queuing ranked for now.

I think most peoples’ issue with the matchmaking is the following: the matches are way too easy for the first 5,10, maybe 15 matches. Then, you hit a wall, and all of a sudden you can’t seem to win a game to save your life.

If the goal of leagues this season is to give players a sense of progression, while also keeping the game fair and fun, Anet has failed in at least 2/3 of these goals.

As much as it pains me to say it, I think last season’s model worked better. At least the matches were competitive.

This sounds like a good idea. I don’t know how well it’ll work in practice, but in theory, it sounds like it could solve a lot of problems at once.

I know starcraft uses a series of 5 (I think?) placement matches for their ladder games so that you start off in an appropriate division. The one problem with that system is that those first 5 matches count a lot more towards your ladder ranking than the subsequent matches you play. This seems to solve that problem.

I’m guessing you are intending for preseason matches to take the place of ranked matches during the off-season, so that people still have the option to play semi-competitive unranked games that won’t affect their season standing. As long as we have a separate MMR for unranked matches (I believe that’s how the system currently works anyway), I think this is a great idea.

what the actual kitten? that seems kind of backwards to me…

I thought that in the new season, MMR doesn’t affect matchmaking, and the matches are made based on where players are in their divisions. Am I wrong?

On my most recent Dragon’s Stand run, the server had a huge lag spike while fighting the Mouth of Mordremoth. Every single person on the map was experiencing skill lag of 10+ seconds. Needless to say, almost everyone wiped and we lost the event as soon as the vine growths spawned. I guarantee that we would’ve beaten Mordremoth in 10 minutes or less had this not happened.

Losing an event like this after spending over an hour to get to that point is completely unacceptable. I am extremely frustrated right now.

I am asking Anet to reimburse everyone on the map for the 20 crystalline ore and other loot that we lost out on. It happened at 3:45 pm EST (8:45 pm UTC).

Yes, 100% agree. Just had an issue where the server got a huge lag spike, and every single person on the map was experiencing skill lag of 10+ seconds. Needless to say, almost everyone wiped and we lost the event as soon as the vine growths spawned. I guarantee that we would’ve beaten Mordremoth in 10 minutes had this not happened.

Losing an event like this after spending over an hour to complete it is unacceptable. I am extremely frustrated right now.

I am asking Anet to reimburse everyone on the map for the 20 crystalline ore and other loot that we lost out on. It happened at 3:45 pm EST (8:45 pm UTC).

BTW I usually use an event timer, but it just sucks that I have a 5-minute window to join a DS map, or else I’m basically locked out of the event for the next 2 hours. I would’ve thought that for the first 30-40 minutes after the DS meta begins, new maps would be created and filled up. I mean, it really only takes an hour at the most to finish the last blighting tower, so time isn’t really a factor at that point.

Maybe the issue is more that too many new maps are being created and that people don’t stay in one map long enough to actually see if it fills up. Can’t blame them, since even when I’ve tried to taxi people into a “fresh” map (1:30+ remaining), no one stays and I end up wasting my time.

Anyway, I hope Anet is aware of this issue.

I can never seem to find a populated map… Seems like I always wind up on an empty map, and when I try to taxi ppl in, they leave after about 10 seconds because they don’t feel like doing the whole event or waiting for other people. So I taxi people in until I can’t post anymore due to “excessive messaging”, and still the map is empty.

My personal feeling is that there are tons of players out there looking to do the DS meta, but because there is nothing to do on the map until there are enough people, no one sticks around long enough to get anything done. The sheer number of people who join and then leave in a short period of time when I try to taxi corroborates this explanation.

Anyone else have the same experience with this map?

Staff marks are also telegraphed and relatively slow, that’s the tradeoff for being able to cover a point in marks. I think it’s a well-designed, well-balanced weapon with it’s own unique style, which is probably why it hasn’t been changed.

Tim.6450:

It’s actually 600~800 in most cases (the 800 is due might and vuln stacks from), still my scepter 3 skill does more damage/second most of the cases and requires less trait investment.

But scepter 3 isn’t an unblockable aoe.

Anyway, in order to get the most out of scepter, most reapers like to use staff as their other weapon set, so they have access to the chill and poison on demand (and weakness if you use the 3-4 combo) without having to complete an AA chain. So in most cases, condi reapers tend to use staff for long range team fights, scepter for mid range fights or 1v1s, and reaper’s shroud for close range team fights.

Of course, no matter what type of fight it is, a good player will constantly be switching weapons and moving in and out of range.

Anyway, yes, I agree that the staff is kind of spammy, but I think that fits with the purpose of necro, and more specifically the purpose of that weapon. They are supposed to be the profession that covers a point in aoes, spamming conditions that won’t kill you instantly, but will slowly wear your team down.

The nice thing about fighting a staff necro is that you can see where their marks are placed, so you can avoid them or dodge thru them. Dodging at the right time and using line of sight to your advantage are both important tactics when fighting necros/reapers.

Rezzet.3614:

what is this passive health regeneration y ou speak of ? because most heals i seen scrappers use are Active

turret+detonate o medi gyro+ gyro toolbelt+triple leap heal, elixir gun’s stunbreak+ #5 skill, mortar kit number 5 if someone even uses that anymore after the 30% nerf

the only passive heal is the 100-170 hp regen while wearing a kit but that requires replacing the 25% hp invulnerability

They’re referring to Rapid Regeneration, it’s a master trait for Scrapper specialization: regenerate health every second (~100-200 hp/sec) while you have swiftness and a lot of health per second when you have super speed (~500-800 hp/sec).

If used with the inventions line and/or slick shoes, this can provide a lot of healing over time. The healing also stacks with the healing you get from the regeneration boon AND the healing you get from Backpack Regenerator (~120 – 180 hp/sec).

Combine that with their triple leap finisher, healing turret, multiple blast finishers, defensive gyros, the dmg reduction from adaptive armor and the mortar/elixir gun healing fields, and, well you get the idea.

A good way of dealing with a tanky scrapper is by constantly applying poison and other conditions to the scrapper. If you can corrupt or remove their defensive boons, even better. Necros/reapers tend to be very good at this. Most scrappers have multiple ways of removing conditions, but their skills usually only remove 1 or 2 condis at a time. So try to apply a few other conditions along with the poison.

CCs and moa are also good for disrupting a scrapper’s active heals.

Crinn.7864:

Rezzet.3614:

All professions have a form of invulnerability

I’m still trying to figure out where my necro’s invulnerability skill is.

Death shroud/reaper’s shroud

Shaogin.2679:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Deniara Devious.3948:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Here are some nerfs I think engi should get:

double the icd of protection injection and invigorating speed
put self regulating defenses on a 90sec icd
halve the superspeeds regen part from rapid regeneration
eliminate healing turrets and bunker downs perma regen

These imo would help bring scrapper in line with the rest of the lesser classes.

Extremely bad set of changes, besides the superspeed “regeneration” nerf, as this would simply kill the core engineer for anything else than pve.

2. The healing from rapid regeneration scrapper line trait with superspeed is too high and it stacks with real regeneration (which is much weaker).

wat

Playing as a scrapper and fighting against scrappers has led me to one conclusion: their passive health regeneration is way too high. That is not up for discussion. Alchemy offers way too much for survivability, so much so pretty much every build takes it. That should tell you something right there. If the only thing that was touched was protection injection, it would go a long way. It would not nerf engi to the ground, that is fear mongering.

Um, pretty sure every profession has that one trait line that they take with just about every build? Such as Necros and Soul Reaping. Should we nerf all those trait lines too since they are obviously op by your definition?

I’d say best bet is to start with more frequent balance patches so that smaller tweaks can be made instead of massive nerfs/buffs that make or break builds. After this we could start with a slight nerf to the regen from Rapid Regeneration, and see how that works. Let’s be sensible here.

Overall, I am happy with the way Anet has been handling scrappers. They are not overreacting and nerfing them into oblivion. Instead, they are tweaking a few skills/traits at a time until there is more build diversity and the spec is balanced.

Sneak Gyro is a perfect example; during the league season, everyone and their mother was using this skill, and it would completely change the outcome of team fights. Doubling the cooldown (and disrupting the bunker meta) has brought this skill back in line with other engi elites. Sneak Gyro is still useful, but it now requires more skill and timing to get the most out of it.

As far as alchemy goes, I am a big fan of this traitline, simply because it allows for more build diversity and gives players an incentive to use utilities other than weapon kits. Before the June patch where traitlines were revamped, triple-kit engi was really the only viable build for all game modes.

Now, engis are forced to make tough decisions when choosing their traits, utilities and elite skills: Do I want to bring 2 or 3 kits with me so that I have more skill options, or do I want to bring some elixirs that will help boost my damage or defensive abilities and help me cleanse condis? Which utility can I get rid of so I can use this gyro?

Finally, I just want to mention that the nerf to sigil of energy was also an indirect nerf to scrapper/engi, as engi and ele are probably the two classes that got the most benefit from this sigil due to kit/attunement swapping.

azyume.6321:

Problem is when people ask to nerf scrapper survivability, interesting enough, they point out for a core trait line, alchemy. So they aren’t really asking for scrapper nerf, but an engineer nerf.

I’d rather anet worked on scrapper only and leave the core traits alone. As of now, engi still have a chance against elite specs, nerf that and will be another core gone into oblivion along with the others.

I completely agree with this. Vanilla engi is still viable at the moment, but just barely. Meanwhile scrapper is arguably one of the strongest elite specs (top 2 or 3 right now). So by nerfing, say, alchemy or firearms or something, Anet would basically force the few non-scrapper engis out.

shion.2084:

Wait Are you talking about the alchemy trait that makes you drink an elixr S when at 25% health? That’s really funny I actually pointed that out as being one of the worst traits. Thing always bloody triggers just as I’m about to put my last couple of hits on someone, Or when you’ve just been hit by a bunch of condis and so for 5 seconds you can’t cleanse them.

Have to say I totally agree with you, please have them take that bloody trait and give the engi something decent. That things a fricken death trap.

As Shion noted, the automatic Elixir S (self-regulating defenses) is a double-edged sword. When I first started using this trait, it would always take me by surprise, and I would run away right as it triggered, rather than stay in the fight and try to rez or stomp. It has some serious drawbacks: there is no way to cancel it, it locks you out of all your skills (including condi cleanses) and everyone knows exactly when it will trigger and how long it lasts. Good players will just stay on the engi and burst them down and/or CC them as soon is it ends to prevent them from healing afterward.

And, unlike mist form, elixir S doesn’t give any sort of movement speed buff to help you disengage. So when fighting a scrapper or engi whose elixir S just triggered, don’t let them run away. Instead just stay on them, use that 3 seconds to heal up or give yourself some boons, and be ready to use your most damaging skills right as it ends (or even right before it ends, if using a ranged attack that will take some time to travel to the target).

Personally, I find the amount of players using invuln skills to be annoying, but Elixir S is definitely not the worst of them. Distortion, Renewed Focus, Mist Form and the most OP of all, Obsidian Flesh, are pretty much essential now due to the power creep (burst dmg / condi spam) in the game, and they are all arguably better than Elixir S. Signet of Stone, Endure Pain, and Shield of Courage are also used for the same reasons, although at least these skills have a mechanic where the user is not completely immune to all forms of damage.

Yeah, I also like takedown round, burst potential is well worth using the trait. On a power rifle build with air and/or fire sigils it does enough extra damage to really help burst an enemy down. While it’s true that the rocket can be blocked, I’d rather see the rocket get blocked than a point blank blunderbuss or jump shot.

For me, takedown round does not get blocked very often in any game mode, since the initial attack has to hit in order to proc it (just like air/fire sigils). Thus, if the initial attack is blocked, takedown round will not trigger until your next attack lands. The tracking on it is exceptional as well, it is quite difficult to avoid, even at long distance. (Personally, I think this is where it shines the most, when you are using rifle AA or mortar kit to chase down an enemy that is running away).

Anyway, I thought Anet said they were going to disable gliding in jumping puzzle areas. It’s been really frustrating so far trying to do chaos crystal caverns again. The weird effects are bad enough without having to worry about how long I’m holding down the f—-in space bar.

I am trying to, but it would be nice if I could just disable it or turn it off or something. I think that sometimes when I am making a longer jump, I hold it a bit longer without thinking about it, and since it’s never been a problem before, I never even noticed I was doing that.

Or give us an option we can set where the glider doesn’t automatically kick in, especially when making a jump to a platform that’s like 3 feet below the current one. Extremely frustrating doing a jp when my glider keeps opening at random (seems like there is no way to predict when it will happen).

Anyone else finding that the chances of a legendary spawning in Silverwastes are abysmally low recently? I’ve spent hours there, always making sure that we don’t lose any fortresses, and I I’ve seen only one legendary spawn on the last 15 maps I’ve played on. They used to spawn fairly regularly, so a person could get the achievements without spending hours upon hours farming SW. I’m so sick of trying to get this achievement, yet I really need the mastery points.

Also, why are there such limited ways to get regular (non-HoT) mastery points??! Really, the only way to get enough for most of the masteries are by doing Triple Trouble, SW, and dry top farming. All of which get really boring after a while.

I’m all for this tbh. Although I think maybe it should just grant some life force in shroud, cause it might be op if it just gave you straight up health. Most condi necros are already pretty tanky unless they’re running viper’s.

Why can’t we just pick the 4 stats we want, and just make it so that at least two of those are offensive stats? (since they don’t want any full bunker amulets)

Hooglese.4860:

No soldiers? Really? Like I get settlers and sentinel even cele but soldiers? I’m so confused. The new amulets are a little scary that they may become meta but we’ll have to see. At least we won’t have bunkers and I can watch games without passing out

Sentinel is out too. They didn’t say anything about Barbarian amulet, but I imagine Paladin’s will be a superior choice anyway.

Josh Davis.6015:

We’re also removing the following amulets:

• Soldier’s
• Settler’s
• Celestial
• Sentinel

/discuss

PS, gold for purchases runes/amulets will be refunded, and the newly added amulets will be free.

Frenk.5917:

The sigil of Energy nerf is extreme, to say the least: Sigil of Energy currently grants 50 endurance which is 50% of the total endurance.

Vigor is a 50% buff to endurance regeneration, which happens to be at 5% per second. This means that having vigor is equal to a 2.5% extra endurance gain, since 5% * 1.5 = 7.5%, and 7.5% – 5% = 2.5%.
The new Sigil of Energy grants 7s of Vigor, which means that the new energy gain is 2.5% * 7 = 17.5%, which is 17.5 endurance.

Current sigil of Energy awards 50 endurance instantly
Post-nerf sigil of Energy awards 17.5 endurance in 7 seconds.

Please, just nerf the endurance amount from 50 to 25 and call it a day. The new Sigil of Energy is extremely underperfoming with respect to the current Sigil of Energy.

Actually it’s only 5 seconds of vigor, so it’s 12.5% over 5 seconds, as I and someone else noted. I was mad at first, still am, but now I am also laughing at how ridiculous this is.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Sigil of energy nerf severely harms shatter Mesmer, a glass cannon losing clone generation seems an odd fix if you want faster matches…. Explain?

I completely agree. Because power and condi shatter mesmers were what everyone has been complaining about, and they need to be nerfed, am I right? (sarcasm)

Not only that, but dueling already gives ~100% vigor uptime, so this sigil will be completely useless on any shatter mesmer that uses dueling.

So basically the only class where dodge-spamming is really an issue, daredevil, will still be able to abuse that mechanic, while the classes with limited sources of endurance are getting the shaft. As for auramancer tempest and bunker chrono, they are both getting nerfed with the removal of celestial amulet and the huge nerf to well of precognition, as well as possibly by the change to diamond skin (yet to be seen how effective this is, though I think it might help). I still don’t see why it’s necessary to kill this popular sigil.

reapex.8546:

Axialbloom.8109:

- Removed Celestial
- Removed Sigil of Energy
- Removed Elementalist?

Energy wasn’t removed, reread the post.

Honestly it might as well have been. Who in their right mind would consider using this sigil now? Going from 50% endurance instantly to 12.5% endurance (1/4 of one dodge) over 5 seconds?! Are you f—-in’ mad?! That’s literally a 75% nerf, and that’s only for the builds that don’t have access to vigor already. That’s also ignoring the possibility for boon removal/corruption.

Let’s not forget that vigor doesn’t stack with any other endurance regeneration abilities… making it even more useless for any class that has a trait that gives them extra endurance regeneration.

A lot of people really liked this sigil, and I honestly haven’t seen a single complaint on the forums about it. But it was popular and a lot of ppl used it (like cele ammy), so…

RIP.

I think they could’ve added these new amulets without removing the old ones, tbh. Or maybe waited a few weeks to see how the trait and skill changes (like diamond skin) affect PvP. This seems like so many huge changes it will be impossible to tell what works and what doesn’t.

Also, mercenary amulet and sigil of intelligence… did no one think of how ridiculously OP this combination will be?

I have to say I really dislike the change to sigil of energy and the removal of cele amulet from PvP. I think they both could’ve been nerfed slightly while keeping them functionally the same.

(maybe make sigil of energy give 35-40% endurance instead of 50%, drop the stats on cele amulet by 5%)

The changes to sigil of energy are only going to hurt some of the more underpowered (or underused) traitlines, such as honor for guardians and dueling for mesmers. For engi/scrapper, protection injection will be far superior to invigorating swiftness as the go-to alchemy adept trait, instead of having both as viable options. Healing turret will certainly replace elixir H for the few engis that are still using it. I could go on, but I think I’ve made my point. I think this change may actually hurt PvP build diversity.

Sigil of energy can be very strong on certain classes due to weapon swap mechanics (engi, necro, ele), but I don’t know that this is the way to solve it.

I totally agree with this. Seems like diamond is full of awful players, and the ones on my team are the worst of them all… I just lost 6 pips straight, taking me from tier 3 to tier 1. I have been doing my best to carry the teams I’m on, but there is only so much one person can do. Skill-wise, my teammates seem to kind of know what they’re doing. As far as map awareness and rotation goes, however, I seem to wind up with people who are constantly fighting off point and making terrible decisions. Condi classes trying to fight DS eles 1v1 on a point the ele controls, dragonhunters chasing mesmers off point, thieves bunkering points, reapers and scrappers going for beast, that sort of thing.

Dawdler.8521:

DS IMO is an OP mechanic. The problem is that it doesnt really open any damage window once you get the ele down in HP – they just heal up instantly and are invoulnerable to condis again. All that it really need is something akin to revealed – a cd after DS is broken until it goes up again (even if the ele is at 100% HP).

IronPhoenix.2045:

In my opinion it should be a dmg reduction and not a immunity for example over 75 % hp reduce condi dmg to 50 %. So i got at least a chance to win against a ele in a 1 v1 and 2 condis will win against a ele.

I agree with the majority of posts, tempests are currently abusing DS, but only because they are extremely weak without it. So, as the above posts suggest, I think DS could be reworked to remain very strong against condis without being as gamebreaking as it currently is. Both of the above suggestions are great ideas, and I appreciate the constructive way that the two posts try to address the issue.

I would add that another option might involve condi duration, so that very strong condi classes would still be able to break DS by timing their bursts correctly, and that the ele would have to manage the most damaging conditions by using their cleanses at the right time, instead of just constantly healing. Something like "50% incoming condition duration while above 85% health might be an option, and would still allow DS to have a strong impact on non-damaging (control) conditions without negating them entirely.

My other issue with ele right now is that focus, as a defensive weapon, is far too powerful atm. It has obsidian flesh, easily the best invulnerability skill in the game (4-second instant cast invuln on a weapon skill that allows the tempest to cast any and all skills while active), tons of defense/reflects against projectiles (swirling winds, earth overload, magnetic wave), with the latter skill also curing 3 condis and being instant cast, with tons of CC on fairly low cooldowns to boot.

The ability to use overloads and shouts means that the tempest is not as reliant on weapon skills to deal the bulk of its damage, so that it is free to use the most defensive weapons available without hurting its dps too much —-> d/f and (occasionally) staff

That’s why scepter (and to a lesser extent, warhorn and offhand dagger) are so ineffective as weapon choices in the current meta.

So, in addition to reworking DS, I’d like to see some nerfs to focus and some buffs to scepter, so that an offensively-geared tempest or ele build would become viable again in PvP. I think a lot of ele players would like to see more build diversity, which might take some of the sting out of a rework to DS.

got facerolled by a druid earlier in a 1v1 so maybe i spoke too soon…

Mega Skeleton.8259:

I’m trying to work on a bunker buster build to try and have a chance in the meta. All the things you need to properly counter ele and mesmers leave you spread pretty thin, but with the help of someone else moderately offensive I think it could work, with enough boon stripping and cc (condi pressure for mesmers is probably required too). Poison application would be good, but it’s really hard to make that stick in any meaningful way vs an ele. that hems in a lot of the build already.

Otherwise I’ve been wondering if maybe decap engi can find a spot in bunker meta these days. Don’t need to bust the bunkers as much as just move them off the point.

Agreed, reaper is one of the better professions, but not the best. However, I think it’s in a pretty good place in terms of build diversity, as there are a lot of different builds with different playstyles, many of which can be competitive in the right hands.

This is basically the counter-build I’ve been running for a while: it focuses on taking away the thing that the other team does best, whether that be power dps, condi, or healing/sustain.

I’ve usually done well using a cele terrormancer/frostfire build (no signets, running YSiM, spectral wall, WoC, spectral armor and CttB). In higher level PvP, this build does require a lot of coordination to pull off, though.

Pros:
1)Insane LF generation w/ soul reaping (spectral mastery, soul marks)
2)Good condi pressure, condi transfers and weakness spamming via curses (w/ auto plague signet, terror, weakening shroud) and staff / oh dagger. reaper spec for stability & deathly chill on fears
3)Tons of CC (as long as the enemy doesn’t have resistance/diamond skin)
4)Very good sustain w/ high protection uptime and decent LF pool, toughness.
5)Fairly good mobility for a necro by using traveler runes (helps a bit with boon/condi duration as well)
6)Works decently well against bunker mes/druid due to all the unblockable attacks, CC, boon corruption and chill.
7)Great for preventing enemy rezzes, not terrible for rezzing teammates: Staff marks and WoC/spectral wall can provide lots of CC while I move in to rez/stomp.
8)Works well in teamfights, can also win 1v1 against most builds (quite versatile).

Cons:
1)Doesn’t match up well against 2 popular meta builds (DS eles, condi revs): (possible to beat ele, but it takes a long time and I have to time skills perfectly), condi revs are more of an even matchup, but they probably have a slight advantage.
2)Mostly condi-oriented: this goes along with #1, but I sometimes also have issues fighting necros with plague signet and/or druids in team fights.
3)Lacking in burst: like many reaper builds, it’s not the best build if you are down late and need to stage a comeback. Works pretty well for rushing lord on FF though.
4)Weak against chain-CC: Spectral armor is my only stunbreak, and its on a 40 sec CD. Reaper’s shroud and elite shout can be lifesavers, but a smart opponent knows when to interrupt me.
5)Healing is very limited: Although it has decent sustain, this is an attrition build, so I am also wearing down as the fight goes on. Usually, if played right, my enemy drops before I do, but not always.

I do pretty well against druids 1v1, but DS eles are definitely my toughest opponent. I use axe mh, as 2 skill (if timed right) can help bring the ele below 90% for a fear chain and poison/chill burst, and unholy feast (3 skill) can remove protection/stab if I get lucky or time it right.

Matches have been getting tougher lately due to bunker meta and diamond division, so recently I’ve been swapping out dhuumfire for death perception when I see multiple eles on the enemy team, which has been helping my build stay relevant.

actually condi mesmer was nerfed too: 50% stealth nerf to maim the disillusioned, which is why no one runs an offensive condi mes build anymore… well that and the fact that a bunker mesmer can hold a point 3v1 and still manage to down enemies.

oh and also all the DS eles running around probably has something to do with it, since they completely negate any condi spec without even trying.

bunker mes and diamond skin tempest are broken as f***.
f*** pvp and f*** anet. im sick of this garbage.

The meta wouldn’t shift “pure condi” without DS tempests. Rather, people would realize they need condi cleanses, which would mean that other people would stop running as many condi builds since they can be cleansed so easily. Then, an equilibrium would be reached where there were some condi builds, some power builds, and some bunker builds.

The PvP makeup of most teams in higher divisions is as follows: 2 DS eles, 2 other bunkers (druid or mesmer), and one damage spec with high sustain, usually a viper rev or scrapper.

Not only is this boring af, but it’s impossible to counter unless the other team runs the same comp. DS ele is cancer and it is destroying PvP.

Valkyriez.6578:

I’ve not seen this once in my 50 matches over the last week, it can’t be that prevelant. What division is this happening at? It certainly isn’t in Amber and Emereld.

I just made it to diamond today, but for me, it usually happens about 1 out of every 5 or 10 matches on average, regardless of division. I’m not even that worried about losing pips anymore. I don’t want to see these players in a match; it’s a waste of my time and it is extremely frustrating for the players on both teams that have to finish out a match that has already been decided. And just because things weren’t going the way one player wanted and they decide to throw a fit.

The main reason that I’m posting this is that Anet said they would be punishing, and possibly banning, flagrant offenders. I usually give ppl the benefit of the doubt if they d/c, but I have seen several people in the last week announce on mapchat that they are going to afk at spawn before doing just that.

In such cases, I don’t see how there can be any confusion as to their intentions, and would like to see such people banned or at least be temporarily suspended from ranked sPvP. Even when I’m on the opposing team, I can’t stand people who do this because it takes all the fun and satisfaction out of a win.

Please Anet, follow through on your promise and get rid of these toxic players.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Ithilwen.1529:

Of course.. the real long term solution would be to make multiple builds for each class that work well. I’m not confident that ANET can accomplish that.

Problem is, a majority of the builds one can cook up on their class ARE viable and ARE powerful, just not in a conquest setting.

People seriously need to stop advocating for trait tweaks (although some specs do need some toning down) and need to start crafting game modes that don’t simply reward sitting on point all day doing nothing.

The problem with that solution is that it punishes builds that win fights, but cannot chase down targets that can stealth and/or disengage. sPvP is supposed to be the most balanced game mode, where armor and weapon strength is equal and everyone has access to the same skills, stats and traits. I’d like to see more game modes as well, but I think the priority for Anet right now should be fixing and balancing sPvP.

No Walking.6349:

There is build diversity.

1. Bunker Mesmer
2. Bunker Ele
3. Viper Rev
4. Marauder Engi

You have a WHOLE FOUR CHOICES!!! See! Diversity!

As you see from my above post, there are actually about 7 builds which I see on a regular basis. But I agree that these four are the real problem (and they are all elite specs). Hmm coincidence?

Pimsley.3681:

Replacing the old trait system that used points and distributed stats with the communist version we have now destroyed diversity.

Back then you could run unique yet effective builds on ele, engie, ranger…..

I disagree with that statement; prior to HoT, there were a number of effective builds out there for each profession. I think the June 2015 patch that streamlined traits was a good thing, but I think that the elite specs destroyed all the hard work that went into the previous major update.

Here are my thoughts with respect to sPvP:

Ele needs a serious buff to scepter (for every attunement besides air), as well as a serious nerf to focus and diamond skin. The only ele build I see these days in sPvP is d/f diamond skin tempest along with the occasional diamond skin staff tempest.

Adaptive armor has already been nerfed for scrapper, but it is still a bit too strong… As is hammer, sneak gyro, and even slick shoes. Hence all the scrappers running the marauder or cele scrapper build. Engi might actually be the best vanilla spec, but it is still very lacking compared to scrapper.

The only profession that offers some build diversity these days is necro, and even in that case, signet builds are easily the most common build I see. From my experience, approx. one out of every two necros uses a signet build, since it offers everything one could want in a necro without sacrificing anything (boon corruption, might stacking, condi transfers, movement speed, sustain, condi spamming, team support, i could probably go on but you get the idea). However, you don’t need to run cele signet to be successful at necro, since MM, terrormancer, carrion frostfire, wellomancer and condi reaper are all viable as well. If more professions were as balanced as necro, there would still be a meta, but I’d see other builds as well.

Next we have bunker mes (bunker chrono to be exact). Even with the recent nerfs, this build is still too strong. Instead of nerfing chronomancer weapon and utility skills, Anet needs to deal with the source of the problem: the inspiration spec. Medic’s feedback, restorative illusions and illusionary inspiration are all too strong in teamfights; even the minors need to be tuned down. If they continue to simply nerf the mesmer weapon and utility skills, Anet will make every other mes/chrono build obsolete before they are able to correct this one, over-powered build. Since the recent nerfs, I see fewer mesmers overall, but less diversity in this profession.

For revenant, the condi mallyx (mace/axe, viper) herald build is definitely the norm, although there may be some diversity in terms of the other weapon set and/or 3rd specialization (sword/shield, staff). I don’t see any hammer revs anymore, so maybe hammer could use a little boost?

For ranger, all I see are staff druids with bristleback pets and, sometimes, smokescales. Similar to rev, though, I guess there is some build diversity in terms of the other weapon set, as I’ve seen power lb and condi survival builds. Trap ranger seems to be pretty dead as of late.

Finally marauder trapper DH with lb is mostly all I see for guardian, with slight variations on the second weapon set, but little to no variation on the specializations (DH, virtues, valor). I will say that I think there are some other viable DH builds out there that people haven’t experimented with yet (melee trap, carrion burn), although I’m not sure how successful they will ultimately be.

I can’t really comment on thief or warrior, other than saying that I don’t see very many these days.

Clearly, Anet has their work cut out for them. I don’t think it’s a problem to have certain builds or professions that are stronger or weaker in some situations, but every build needs to have a possible counter, and most of these builds are meta because they are extremely strong and can’t be countered, except occasionally by another meta build.

With all the available skills, weapons and amulets in the game, I’d like to see more than these 7 builds on a regular basis.

(edited typos)

A good offensively-focused hybrid build like: cele reaper (axe/dagger, staff is effective for me) or cele rifle engi. The idea is to burst them down below 90% health with power-based attacks and then apply chill and poison along with other damaging conditions.

However, when you get 2 DS tempests on a point together, or 1 supported by a druid, or even a scrapper, it becomes much more difficult to do this.

I do think something needs to be done about the current bunker meta, as these DS tempests and bunker mesmers are incredibly annoying to fight.

I was under the impression that going afk, rage quitting, or throwing matches on purpose would be a punishable/bannable offense, but I still see people doing it all the time. I believe that by making an example of the worst or most flagrant offenders, Anet could send a message to the rest of the sPvP community that this behavior is not ok.

Anyone else frustrated by all the quitters who give up when the other team takes the lead?

Can any staff members comment on this?

I agree with this premise: fear should be a unique condition and should still CC people when they are immune to conditions. At the very least, resistance shouldn’t negate the effects of fear, just the additional damage that the terror trait causes.

Something needs to be done about diamond skin… It is killing build diversity, and this would be a good start.

raubvogel.5071:

necros need a bufkittentaff physical dmg.
also a debuff of shroud nec and a buff of non shroud nec would be appreciated. Sometimes as a non shroud there isn’t much of a choice left.
blood gm 2/3 are shroud
soul repeaing 3/3 are shroud

there are 4 other specializations that don’t revolve around shroud. not only that, but your original assessment isn’t even accurate. i agree that soul reaping is a spec primarily focused around buffing shroud. blood magic, however, is more about survivability and team support than actually helping shroud. there are only three blood traits that are shroud-based: life from death, transfusion and unholy martyr.

and for the traits that do help shroud, death shroud is our main source of sustain, so it makes sense that a specialization built around that would include a few traits to buff the team support that shroud offers.

who ever said they did? necro is in a great place right now: pretty much all their weapons are viable, their elite spec is great, and base necro is even viable. not only that, but they probably have more decent builds than any other profession. at the same time, the class is balanced and it doesn’t need a nerf either. necro is working atm, don’t change a thing.

Also, I know some people might say: well, then don’t try to do the event. And I usually don’t. But why even have a boss event in the game if it is this difficult to complete, and for all the wrong reasons?