Guild Wars 2

Karizee.8076:

Skyrant Kangaroomouse.7458:

gold.3025:

I think the real reason why we see so many ridiculous posts is because this has been the most successful MMO in years, and people who don’t like the game are extra determined to see it fail because of the idea that there can only be one successful game on the market

Have you really thought about what you wrote there? Please read and understand what you just wrote.

You are seriously saying that because (in your opinion) this is the most successful MMO, people from other games buy this game to post negative threads on the forums to make it look bad and make their game look better.

I am just baffled by this, sorry but this has to be the most ridiculous thing ever posted on a games forum.

It’s corporate forum wars.

As “the elephant in the room” servers get quieter and quieter, as their LFR queues get longer and longe and longer, you better believe “the elephant” can afford to buy a few accounts to make a mess of their competition’s forums.

The White Knights are now in conspiracy theory mode…

@taomang

This. It’s ridiculous how many GW2 fans pull the “brainwashed/trained” card as an excuse for the lack of endgame.

“But, ArenaNet is a poor little underling hero on a quest to liberate us from evil Blizzard & Co. who have enslaved the population by tricking us into thinking their games are good. They’ve been feeding us lies, fun in their games is just an illusion created as a ploy to make us pay up! Have no fear, ArenaNet is here to show us what REAL fun is!!”

Ridiculous….

Dinny.5310:

You’re forgetting one thing… In a way, the trinity already exists, but it exists as it should, not like how it does in WoW and other MMOs.

What I’m trying to say is that you, regardless of your class, can give yourself gears, skills and traits to either be supportive (“cleric/healer” class), defensive (“tank”) or offensive (“DPS”). You aren’t pigeonholed into your roles from your character’s conception: you can literally mold them into what role you want them to play and then change it if you decide you want to. That sort of flexibility is great.

The flexibility varies from class to class (e.g. I don’t think a support-oriented thief or a defense-oriented necro are very feasible, for example), but in most cases you have options.

The first problem is that none of the roles except DPS are defined well. There is no pure healing role. There is no pure tanking role. There is no pure support role. It would be nice if I as a player could mix my roles (ex. I want to be mostly a healer, but be able to buff my allies as well). Right now I can only be DPS with a tiny bit of healing or support. It would be great if the old trinity system was there, but any class had access to all the roles and could switch between them with ease.

The second problem is that roles are not forced by the encounter. Sure, you can create a complex strategy, fine-tune your team’s skills, traits, etc. for a particular encounter… Or, you can just rush in. Same end result, which makes the strategic approach look overdone and unnecessary, kind of like a Rube Goldberg machine. Bosses need more complex mechanics instead of hard-hitting mega-health-bars they are right now. This is something that the best trinity MMOs (WoW, Rift, LotRO) get right and GW2 doesnt.

Lankybrit.4598:

Didn’t anyone else link this yet?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/So-You-Hit-80-A-Quick-Endgame-Handbook/

Cheers.

Post was made 3 months ago – kinda funny that he reserved 2 additional posts to add stuff later, but never did… Looks like there wasn’t as much to do as he thought =P

What he did write down goes along the lines of this:

1. Farm for a specific item!
2. Explore!
3. Farm some karma!
4. Farm some gold!
5. Uhh…. yea…

Welcome to the club. Prepare to be told that you don’t know how to play the game, that you’ve been brainwashed by WoW, that you don’t “get” ArenaNet’s “vision”, and that you should go play with pandas. That’s what any criticism of this game gets you.

Amra.6028:

lacrimstein.5603:

Amra.6028:

lacrimstein.5603:

Amra.6028:

Duveth.5742:

i played +2k hours gw1, i played +4k hours wow, i quitted gw2 after 40hours, anet must copy gw1, copy wow, or make it a sandbox mmorpg, if gw2 stay in the mid it will fail.

Don’t need another wow, dont need another GW1 and sandboxes have yet to succeed, sadly.

Ever heard of EVE?

That’s not a sandbox, that’s an economy simulator that consists of being AFK for months while leveling skills.
Care to tell me what end game in EVE might be?

It’s an MMORPG that allows players a very high degree of freedom in economy, combat, social structures – in other words, a sandbox. The endgame in EVE (or any sandbox game) is going from nobody to a leader of a powerful alliance, or a feared space pirate, or a CEO of a successful trading corporation. THAT is horizontal progression, and not whatever you call “horizontal progression” in GW2. You can’t be those things in this game – otherwise it would be “unfair” since nobody is allowed to get ahead in this game, vertically or horizontally.

That’s vertical progression. As there is no end to skill levels, it’s actually the worst kind of vertical progression ever – time spent means way more than personal skills.
Actually, becomg leader of a well-known guild, a feared commander on the battlefield or dungeon master are things you start while leveling in GW2, even though most of it will happen at 80 rather. I don’t see a difference, that’s exactly what was marketed.
What was not marketed was the fractals and their attempt on introducing a treadmill, we’ll see where that’s going.

No, thats horizontal progression – you get more powerful not through numbers, but through social interactions. Ok, you can become a leader of a “known” guild… so what? Guilds are basically chatrooms in this game. Feared commander? Nope, your name is hidden from opposing armies. Dungeon master? not sure what you’re even talking about here, being good at dungeons maybe? Thats not so tough, and nobody cares if you’re good at dungeons – in fact, you’re expected to be. Again, none of these things matter or offer any “impact on the game world” – something that was marketed, but failed spectacularly. Again, sandbox games allow players to hold real power in the game, and to change its course. GW2 doesn’t.

Amra.6028:

lacrimstein.5603:

Amra.6028:

Duveth.5742:

i played +2k hours gw1, i played +4k hours wow, i quitted gw2 after 40hours, anet must copy gw1, copy wow, or make it a sandbox mmorpg, if gw2 stay in the mid it will fail.

Don’t need another wow, dont need another GW1 and sandboxes have yet to succeed, sadly.

Ever heard of EVE?

That’s not a sandbox, that’s an economy simulator that consists of being AFK for months while leveling skills.
Care to tell me what end game in EVE might be?

It’s an MMORPG that allows players a very high degree of freedom in economy, combat, social structures – in other words, a sandbox. The endgame in EVE (or any sandbox game) is going from nobody to a leader of a powerful alliance, or a feared space pirate, or a CEO of a successful trading corporation. THAT is horizontal progression, and not whatever you call “horizontal progression” in GW2. You can’t be those things in this game – otherwise it would be “unfair” since nobody is allowed to get ahead in this game, vertically or horizontally.

Amra.6028:

Duveth.5742:

i played +2k hours gw1, i played +4k hours wow, i quitted gw2 after 40hours, anet must copy gw1, copy wow, or make it a sandbox mmorpg, if gw2 stay in the mid it will fail.

Don’t need another wow, dont need another GW1 and sandboxes have yet to succeed, sadly.

Ever heard of EVE?

exelion.2369:

Nayru.3947:

Strayhand.8216:

Vasham.2408:

Braggo.7819:

this doesnt seem very good then, looks like i wasted £50

That about sums it up.

You’re playing it wrong. Don’t compare GW2 to MMOs like WoW for example. Think of it like an FPS/TPS game with multiplayer, and then compare it’s cost/worth ratio with those, since you payed about the same (or less, because we get “DLCs” for free). GW2 gives you an MMO playground, but frees you from the daily 4 hours grind you did in other MMOs. If you seek to play this game 4 hours a day, you’ll be disappointed. If you see it only for what it is, a nice multiplayer game, you won’t. If GW2 is not worth it’s price, nothing in the world is…

Yeah man there is lack of endgame content therefore he is “playing the game wrong”

Do you realise what people think of you when you say that? They feel sorry for you.

Next white knight please.

It’s not about the ‘lack of end game content’. All content is end game content and unless you have done every heart and gotten full 100% exploration then you have a lot of content. Treating GW2 like people treat WoW is part of the problem. So when people rush to level 80 expecting something like other games end game they are playing it wrong. Then game is meant to be thoroughly enjoyed from 1-80 not just 80.

Exploration as endgame? You’ve gotta be joking. Every MMO out there has a big world to explore, and in some cases, reward it. GW2 isn’t at all original in this regard, and in fact a step back from, say, Rift, because it dumbs down exploration to a checklist of points scattered on the map. The real problem is, none of the content in GW2 is meaningful. There is a big lack of depth in PvE. Once you’ve done a couple of dynamic events – you’ve done them all. Option A: stand in the red circle, kill all enemies inside it. Option B: collect sparkly objects inside the orange circle. Even the traditional quest system, famous for its repetitiveness, offers more variety than that if done right, not to mention the ability to tell a cohesive, complex story – something that the GW2 dynamic event system cannot do in its current state. The biggest problem is lack of challenge in the main game world. GW2 feels like 3ft deep pool: You want to go in the deep end? Sorry, this pool doesn’t have one. The only challenge in the game comes from Fractals, and thats precisely the reason why everyone is sitting inside them instead of in the world.

+1 for Rukia, you summarized exactly what I think about this game.

Krosslite.1950:

I remember hearing people saying they want raids in this game.
I remember that raids took planning.
Since DEs are open raids I am surprised that those shouting for raids haven’t taken the time to plan DE runs.
This is especially true for Orr. Since those need to be planned.
I see few threads posted in the DE area of this forum doing just that.
The problem is the people not the game.
If the DEs are so “bugged” why haven’t they been reported. Maybe they need more data to fix them.
How can they get more data if people making no effort to do this games end-game and instead try to bring “end-games” that Anet said they would not add.

It is time those playing the game started making efforts to play the game as designed and see what happens.

Especially Orr. I am curious what the different ends are. Are there new toys that would make people start screaming “I want it. How did you get it?”

This thread is my effort to change things. What is your effort other then making excuses?

DEs are not raids. They’re public quests, oriented towards mobs of people who arennearby. There is no teamwork required because it’s impossible to have all the random players communicate with each other in that setting. People who wanted raids wanted more serious content that actually requires a preorganized group and teamwork. I stopped reading after you claimed that nobody is reporting broken DEs and I realized that you’re white knighting hard. One of the problems with this game is ArenaNet’s attitudettowards bug fixes. DEs are still broken since August and still require a server restart to reset. Have you seen the bug list for Necromancers? Have you seen the state the Rangers are in? These bugs have been there for months! And yet, anything that makes a more convenient way to make gold than the cash shop is nerfed almost immediately. “The game just came out!” excuse just doesn’t cut it anymore.

GW2 stats on Xfire are falling: “This is inaccurate! Its too biased! Sample size too small! Yadayada!”
GW2 stats on Xfire are rising: “Yea go GW2! This is accurately representing what’s happening!”

-_-’

I agree that for me, the purpose of an MMO is to create a believable virtual world – and that is why Guild Wars 2 failed for me. The game feels very compartmentalized. Separate game modes, the instant travel system, anti-competitive measures (no world PvP, instanced resources, etc) make GW2 a boring game for me. There’s simply nothing worthwhile to do. I didn’t expect a treadmill when I bought this game. But I did expect a much larger variety of game mechanics. UO had uninstanced player housing. SWG had single- and multi-person vehicles, UO and Darfall have PK-loot. Rift has collectables and the new “Dimensions” system. Allods has astral ships. GW2 doesn’t have any interesting gameplay mechanics like that. Where are guild halls? guild-oriented content? Player housing? Collectables? Difficult enemies? Rewards for beating those enemies (cosmetic or not, doesn’t matter), instead of for grinding? Guild Wars 2 just feels like a kiddie pool compared to even, dare I say it, WoW.

The problem is that this game was advertised as a skill based MMO, but ended up being an easy-mode game oriented towards casuals. Leveling up to 80 felt unsatisfying, and at level cap there was nothing meaningful to do. For a supposed “skill-based” MMO, there weren’t any rewards for actual skill, just grind. Then, instead of fixing the core problems of the game, and adding difficult content and sandbox mechanics, ArenaNet took the lazy way out and just added vertical progression, and a terrible one at that.

The problem is not with vertical progression, but that GW2 was advertised as a game with horizontal progression, and ended up having none. Instead of working on adding horizontal progression (which is hard and would require numerous new gameplay mechanics), ArenaNet took the easy way out to add a gameplay element that didn’t fit in with the rest of the game at all. Vertical progression is great when done right. ArenaNet did not do it right. I’m tired of the whole “we’re the few enlightened amongst a herd of donkeys following carrots” attitude that this forum is teeming with.

That review is from September 18th, so it’s actually 2 months old, 3 weeks after release of the game, when everyone believed the game was great. A lot of people’s opinions have changed since then. Right now, 3 months after release, GW2 is making the same history SWTOR did.

Gryz.8376:

Oh, and my common concerns with GW2 have been mentioned a lot on these forums: basically the pve gameplay designers are clueless how to make a game fun.

I wouldn’t put it that bluntly… Some parts are promising, but in essence, yes, I agree.

Mirta.5029:

lacrimstein.5603:

Mirta.5029:

Also expansions are all going to be released free and you never even needed to invest money anyway.

No they’re not. Full expansions (not the content patches we’ve been getting) will cost money. Probably around full retail price of a game.

Except that they SAID that it will be released for FREE and will not follow the standards of GW1. Do you even read their blogs or follow the news?

Link me one blog where they said expansions will be free. Again, EXPANSIONS, not CONTENT UPDATES

Mirta.5029:

Also expansions are all going to be released free and you never even needed to invest money anyway.

No they’re not. Full expansions (not the content patches we’ve been getting) will cost money. Probably around full retail price of a game.

Wiser with Age.3714:

Everything that ArenaNet had always implied leaned toward the idea that there was going to be no end game of any real kind. This game would be about “the climb” and not “the destination”. I got the impression that ArenaNet wanted to make an alt focused game with a minimal end game population that grinded for style appearance items (before starting up yet another alt).

And yet instead of coming out and saying what you said, ArenaNet has been dancing around the issue, and even releasing an endgame-dedicated video to calm down the rumors by stating that Orr was supposed to be their endgame. The description sounded great on paper, but when players got there it turned out it was just another area, and a terribly designed one too.

I also enjoy the journey over the destination in MMOs, but GW2’s has been painfully short and unsatisfying. There is no increased challenge, no increased DE complexity, no character development, no good story. I just stopped caring around level 50, but played anyway hoping it gets better in Orr. It didn’t.

Selo.1250:

I also felt that about the content “It will probably get better once we get to endgame, ANEt probably thought of something fun to do once we get there that arent raiding”
Yet..theres nothing

100x this. Yet somehow fanboys managed to trick themselves into thinking that less is more, and when someone brings up the question of what exactly there is to do at 80, they cover their ears and chant “No gear treadmill! No gear treadmill! No gear treadmill!”. Every single topic on endgame has been derailed, with fanboys putting words into people’s mouths, even when raiding or gear progression hasn’t been mentioned at all. I’ve seen countless posts accusing critics of having a “hidden agenda” and “secretly wanting a treadmill” (these exact words!), namecalling, and slogans like “go back to pandaland”, and accusations of “not being constructive”, which stalled any meaningful discussion on the topic. Ironically, the ones being “not constructive” were them, by absolutely refusing to acknowledge the problem.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Hmmmmmm…

IMO, too many people rush to be the best and have the best in a game. Once they reach a certain plateau that requires too much grind/effort to jump the hurdle, then they begin to complain. Too often such changes to accomondate these complaints result in the game being put off balance for the rest.

A game can offer so much and GW2 has offered (offers) lots. The problem is that the mentality of a gamer is to pursue to be the best, regardless of the theme/type, so once enough players reach a certain high plateau, the game developers need to cater for them – and what best way than to add content which makes it even harder than before to gain something they have not acquired yet.

This is the only logical progression that gamers and gaming industry takes. Things just keep getting harder so that only select few can “boast” about having it done. The only problem is, by that time, majority of players would have moved on because they got bored with it.

So tired of the “rushing” excuse, as though GW2’s leveling is supposed to be some epic journey that players deliberately cheated and skipped somehow. The game spoonfeeds you XP at every corner. I have played somewhat casually, usually around 2, never more than 3 hours a night and I got to 80 in less than a month. Leveling itself hasn’t been that amazing either – don’t get me started on the “dynamic, ever-changing world” that actually has less change than WoW’s phasing system.

The problem people had was not the absence of a treadmill, but the complete lack of gameplay options after the level cap apart from backtracking. Everyone knew this game was not supposed to have a treadmill. That’s fine. The big endgame question was, “What is ArenaNet going to bring to the table to replace the treadmill?”. As it turned out, nothing. ArenaNet should have taken the sandbox approach, and given players more freedom in the world, as well as actual choices and lasting consequences to actions. You can see some sandbox elements already – the leveling is pretty directionless, you decide what you want to do and when to do it. The problem is, sandbox games need things to do. In GW2, the entire gameplay boils down to “kill, kill, kill, kill some more”. Nothing else to it. Meanwhile, real sandbox games have player-controlled territory, player built housing and even cities, guild vehicles, inter-player political systems, player-driven economy, etc. If ArenaNet actually made the gameplay in the main PvE world interesting and complex enough, there would not have been endgame complaints.

Merthax.5172:

How did these design choices back GW2 into a corner? Are you saying that a sandbox must be PvP with competition amongst players for resources, etc?

A sandbox needs to have complex player interactions, like territory and resource control, guild politics, moral choices to be either good or bad or neither, ability to forge guilds, alliances, and factions. For that, you NEED PvP, or none those things will matter or make any impact on the game world. By separating WvW out, ArenaNet excluded PvP from the main game world, and, by proxy, all of the above things. A sandbox world needs a large variety of content do, something that GW2 severely lacks (3 types of quest x 1000 is NOT variety)

I’ve quit long before the Nov. 15th announcement. The problem with this game is that imho, it is impossible to make a themepark MMO without gear progression. It’s the “carrot on a stick” that keeps people motivated to play. I strongly believe GW2 should have taken the sandbox approach. However, the developers made several design choices that put GW2 into a corner, such as separating WvW from the PvE world, opting for per-player instanced resource nodes, and the general anti-competitive feel of the PvE world.

Good. ArenaNet needs a wake-up call.

Anishor.6921:

Until the ascended gear the forums were mostly positive on a whole the only whiners were the donkeys who wanted that forever in front never reachable carrot ie – a gear treadmill and vertical progression.

Actually, most people were just asking for more gameplay options and at level 80. The fanboys constantly put words into people’s mouths and derailed the topic to a gear vs non-gear debate. I’ve seen countless posts that were literally accusing critics of having a “secret agenda” and “wanting to ruin their game”, along with the stuff like “You say you want things to do at 80, but what you actually want is a gear treadmill! Admit it”. Threads were derailed with statements like “Endgame = Gear Progression! Go back to WoW!”. There were calls for adding gear progression, but they were the minority of complaints about the endgame. The “gear treadmill” rhetoric was mostly done by the white knights. If even their fanbase is saying that the only way to have endgame (and GW2 is in sore need of proper endgame) is by adding a treadmill, then what is there left to do? So, by halting meaningful dialogue, the white knights played a pretty big role in creating the mess the game is in now. A lot of the blame lies with ArenaNet as well, for taking the lazy way out. They opted for an easy solution, which I predict will backfire in an epic way.

I think the main problem is that, it really feels like ArenaNet does not have a clear vision of what to do for expanding the game. All the changes made in patches after release (DR, nerfs, “Content Disabled” grubs, and now this new “Ascended” stuff) just seem like kneejerk-reaction, superficial fixes to problems with the game. It seems like ArenaNet doesn’t know how to address core issues with GW2 that surfaced in the past couple of months, such as game longevity, gameplay depth, class balance, economy, etc.

Nayru.4537:

BaldricBlack.4359:

OP is clearly lying, if he has been playing since open Beta there is no way anyone, even the most brain dead of individuals would describe this game as being as shallow as OP has. This account isn’t more than a week old, tops.

Actually White Knight, I agree with the OP and I played since the first beta. As do many others agree. Fact.

+1. In fact, these are all very common complaints.

It really feels like ArenaNet does not have a clear vision of what to do for expanding the game. All the changes made in patches after release (DR, nerfs, “Content Disabled” grubs, and now this new “Ascended” stuff) just seem like kneejerk-reaction quick, superficial fixes to problems with the game. It seems like ArenaNet doesn’t know how to address core issues with GW2 that surfaced in the past couple of months.

I think it’s impossible to have a themepark MMO with horizontal progression. After looking back at almost 3 months of GW2, I really think that it should have been designed as a sandbox MMO. There are sandbox elements all over GW2, but none of them are developed very strongly. I think that several design choices, especially the decision to separate WvW from the main PvE world, and now FoTM & its gear treadmill, have driven the game into a tight corner that will be very hard to get out of: The devs have chosen to build up on GW2’s weak (imho) themepark base instead of working on fun gameplay mechanics that could have made the game a very compelling sandbox. It’s early in development, but IMO Elder Scrolls Online is doing a lot of things right that GW2 got wrong.

DootmasterX.3025:

Apparently none of this game’s content exists unless it’s level 80.

Well, going back to feeding cows in low-level areas after beating Zhaitan isn’t too heroic. Usually this is where fantasy stories end: hero beats the bad guy, now he will go back to farming or whatever peaceful lifestyle he led. The End. No story covers what happens afterwards (unless another bad guy shows up), because what happens next is boring, and nobody cares. Same here: nobody cares about going to low-level areas after they faced greater challenges.

“Different” is not necessarily “Better”. “No holy trinity” was supposed to mean that the roles would still be there, but anyone could spec their character for any of the roles. At least, thats how the fanboys explained the system to critics of the decision back in the BWE days to convince them to buy the game. Instead, we got a “Holy Unity” – DPS with useless minor spec choices towards healing/tanking, making PvE encounters mind-numbingly simple pinatas that require zero teamwork (pinatas that are empty, btw) and fanboys who are now yelling “You should have researched the game!”

“Different” is not necessarily “Better”. “No holy trinity” was supposed to mean that the roles would still be there, but anyone could spec their character for any of the roles. At least, thats how the fanboys explained the system to critics of the decision back in the BWE days to convince them to buy the game. Instead, we got a “Holy Unity” – DPS with useless minor spec choices towards healing/tanking, making PvE encounters mind-numbingly simple pinatas that require zero teamwork.

I want progression of some sort. ArenaNet really shot itself in the foot with the “we want everyone to be able to experience all content” mindset. It simply resulted in content being too easy. This game badly needs some sort of content gating – either gear-based, or skill-based. When I bought this game, I assumed there will be skill-based gating, like in, say, Dark Souls (although perhaps less extreme) – as in, it would take a lot of skill for players to be able to complete certain parts of the PvE part of the game, and have them rewarded accordingly with cosmetics. Instead, we got mindless zerging, graveyard rushing, and the rewarding of grind, not skill. I see a lot of people saying “This game’s not about gear, it’s about skill! Go back to WoW if you don’t have skill!”. People love to throw the word “skill” around when describing this game, but the sad truth is that PvE doesn’t take any skill at all.

warmonkey.8013:

Jestunhi.7429:

It appears games are no longer a form of entertainment. People do not play them for fun.

If the number in your character window isn’t increasing then there’s no point playing! That’s the purpose, not entertainment but increasing a number.

For people who think this way I have some advice:

1. Buy a calculator.
2. Turn it on
3. Press 1
4. Press +
5. Press 1
6. Press =

Now, at this point I find most calculators will let you spam the = button and each time you do the number will increase. And if you buy a good calculator the cap is stupidly high!

You could “play” for months!!

I’ve been suggesting these people play Progress Quest. Basically the same thing you suggest..

Any game can be made to sound boring and reduced to the player spamming keys on a keyboard. Gear Progression can be done in a fun way, it can be done in a boring way. Skill Progression can be done in a fun way, and it can be done in a boring way. “Clever” remarks and sneers directed at a game that does it differently than what you like won’t change that.

GADefence.5634:

. . .

Kript : People start at low levels. People level. People move on to higher leveled maps. Time has past, so most people are in high level maps. Low level maps are emptyish. Mid level maps are empty. Ergo, the game is dead.

And you say WE need to use logic? O.o

There must be a black hole, or a secret map somewhere on my server that I don’t know about then. Sure, Orr is busier than other areas, but the population there is not even close to accounting for all the other areas.

The point is, ArenaNet has all the numbers, not us. Something that happened in those numbers must have been so great that it made ArenaNet forget about one of their core pillars of GW2’s design. The guess that is so obvious it just begs to be made: a huge population drop.

cargan.5689:

Leiloni.7951:

[It’s such a bad idea to design a game around the 1% that will be super hardcore that are going to eat through your content in a week and then get bored, every kitten time. Blizzard and Trion have already run into this problem – why does ANet feel the need to alienate their core playerbase for a few hardcore players that aren’t going to change their habits no matter what you do?

So spot on there are always going to be the 1% that blow through/past content say they have finished then whine “im BORED” do some thing about it.
you cant fix them add all the content you like new gear etc and they will still blow through/past it in a week and whine “im BORED”

In buissiness 90% of your problems come from 10% of your customers, if you spend all your time trying to please those that actually dont like the game rather than the 90% who enjoy it as presented then you loose everyone.

GW2 was going to be different “fix” all the mistakes the other mmo’s made it seems that vision lasted all of 3 months

Honestly, I felt like instead of “fixing” the “mistakes” (whether they were mistakes in the first place is questionable in my opinion), they just simply cut out features present in other MMO’s. I personally got bored because thats what GW2 lacked for me: Features, like Guild Halls, GvG, player housing, character development choices. These things are necessary for a game’s longevity. It looks like ArenaNet is realising it now, and instead of going for the root of the problem, they’re responding in their (unfortunately) usual kneejerk-reaction way and applying half-baked fixes. I’m not opposed to gear progression in any way – but the way ArenaNet implemented it does not flow well with the rest of the game.

Speaking of not flowing well, I get that feeling about the entire game. Everything feels compartmentalized. Here’s the separate WvW map. Here’s the separate sPvP mode. Here is the PvE map. You can warp randomly around it anytime you want. The game does not feel “organic”. It does not feel like a unified product. This new “endgame” mode doesn’t help elevate that feeling.

Shadowlancer.7102:

Quote: "… we have found that our most dedicated players were achieving their set of Exotic gear and hitting “the Legendary wall.” We designed the process of getting Legendary gear to be a long term goal, but players were ready to start on that path much sooner than we expected and were becoming frustrated … " – Linsey Murdock

Comment: You do realize that using Hard Core Players, the very few 1% that owns Legendarys, as a idea player base for judgement and conclusions about gear progress, does not make up for the casual base and thus, hint #1 Player gap.

I don’t really see what your point is there.

This “Legendary Wall” is a player getting to level 80, obtaining exotics after several more hours, and finding that he has nothing to do except a very long, dull farm for legendaries with no other goal on the horizon. That gets boring, and for many (like myself) unappealing. The ascended gear is supposed to be an intermediate goal for 1) People who don’t want to invest the time to get a legendary 2) Make the grind for legendaries less painful by adding intermediate goals.

Although I am favorable towards gear progression (but I’m not crazy about it or anything), I agree with the OP. This form of progression does not interest me at all. It is clear to me that ArenaNet is suffering with the “kneejerk” syndrome – applying hack-jobs, nerfs, and disabling content instead of going for the tougher, but permanent, solution of the problem (‘content disabled’ for Grubs because people were farming them, DR because people were farming Orr, ranger shortbow nerf, etc). There were ways to add longevity to the game without adding gear progression, but what ArenaNet decided to do, is in my opinion a lazy cop-out – “Draw 3 from a bag of 9, and get better loot”. The fact that some things, like infusions, rely on the Mystic Forge doesn’t help either.

Crater.1625:

Natural.7013:

Personally, put more true vertical progression in the game and give it more depth. More depth= good game. more casual=more console/cash shop genre.

“Depth” and “vertical progression” are two diametrically opposed ideas.

Where’s the “vertical progression” in GW2 then? Because I sure don’t see any “Depth”. Go play Dark Souls, you might be surprised just how deep a game with vertical progression can be.

edamber.1549:

It was more ready than any other MMO i’ve played at release. I only noticed a couple of bugged DE’s and some minor stuff except the trading post (which I didn’t need in the beginning).

The OP’s point is that it has been 2.5 months, and a lot of Day 1 bugs are still in game. Grace period is over. I think it’s perfectly reasonable for a few eyebrows to be raised at this point in time after release.

Neverathome.8349:

End game,well….before i started playing mmo’s i was playing rpg’s, my most favorite game back then was squaresoft’s ff10 before square enix started to kitten up the others that followed.For casuals there was the storyline and some minigames to do ingame and that was it,for the hardcore gamers there was much more, as it almost was disigned only for them.:)There endgame begon at getting the calestical weapen’s(that was imo easy)But then it all just begon for me"the endgame"Farming dark matters,Getting break hp limit,Getting break damage limit,Fighting the dark aeons,Finding hidden bosses completing the mosterarena and so on…For all this ya needed a kittenload of time,some effort to read things,to use your brains.

In Gw2 i treuly hope i will experience the same like i did in the game that i talked about.But at the end its all what you make of it,If you like it stay, if ya don’t like it move on.

+1

Somewhere along the development of GW2, “no gear treadmill” turned into “no player left behind”. Lets give everyone the same gear! Let’s design the game so every player, good or bad, can complete all content in PvE! Let’s give everyone a choice of 3 cookie-cutter builds for their class, so that casual players don’t feel left behind! Let’s make legendaries easy, but big time sinks so that anyone could get them! As a result, the skill ceiling in PvE was made very low. There are no megabosses, there are no challenges that actually require SKILL to beat. There is nothing that only the best of the best can achieve. “Rewarding skilled players for being good” became “Rewarding all players just for showing up”, and the only measure of a player seems to be “Well did you get 100% world completion?” and “Did you get all the armor skins?”

There’s plenty to do!

1. Give Logain a wedgie
2. Hang out with the quaggans!
3. Explore!
4. Too much more to list!

And lots more!!! We’re all having fun! Why aren’t you?

Amra.6028:

teviko.6049:

Amra.6028:

drifter.8453:

I have to agree on the OP points. Sure he/she has 700 plus hours spent, but that can all be do in the hopes of He/she waiting to see if anything changed patch after patch.

GW2 has lots of issues, and the only thing they are concerned about are the endless supply of Constant Locked Chest drops. They need to add more important to gamer drops. such as good gear, weapons, etc off of mobs instead, because right now the only choices we have are.

Buy keys off the market with Real life cash for the Locked chest that works off a RNG of goodies beside pointless tonics.

Buy game gold from a third party seller to help players get their crafting maxed for lengendaries.

to depend on the Mysic toilet that works off a RNG to spit out good gear.

to depend on the RNG system to get something good off champion bosses. or even the 70-80 Risen mobs.

U wot m8?
Did you even play the game?

lol, in his cynical way, it sounds like he played a lot!!

derision aside, he has very valid arguments.

The mystic forge is the WORST game mechanic I’ve ever seen. as the inifinite black hole of garbage regurgitation, its a wonder people haven’t taken a flamethrower to it yet.

As for third party ‘sellers’, basically, they sell gold half as cheap as A.Net does. More in the hopes of getting potential buyers than to be generous.

The random number generator that deals with mobs and loot is…awful. I know this game is not supposed to be about gear, but when I kill a veteran or a champion and i get NOTHING to show for my effort, except the mobs laughter ringing in my ears, well..its a huge let down.

Or if I kill a world boss mob, let the champion risen giant, and all I get is a gold medal (akin to a pat on teh head, like a good dog) and some purple karma points that are useless (yes, I know I CAN buy gear with it, but the gear…I don’t want it, I already HAVE the exotics and the stats I do want) and a measly 2s?? I’m supposed to be proud of my 15 minutes of spamming 1???

No, I think the guy had his ‘short’ version pretty much dead on.

Sorry, but all I can see is “ANet wants ppl to buy keys so no drops from enemies” which is garbage. The game is full of loot – you get spammed with blues in any single event. I don’t see why the game would need to throw exotics at me for some cheesy veteran mob that took me a minute to kill. If you want that, go play Skyrim and cheat, please.

Have you even played Skyrim? Every “boss” awards either something cool-looking or useful. Crafting material, dragon priest masks, unique weapons and armor, etc. All can be obtained without “cheating”

DavisonACT.8153:

OP – how many hours a day is that? Most people don’t even do their jobs that long – I can’t see any game still being fun after such a heavy time commitment in such a short time.

Where do you see the OP complaining about the game not being fun? He’s just bringing up things he feels are problematic with the game and could be improved. He even states that the game is good and fun overall. He’s not even saying “Add more things!”, he’s bringing up things that need to be fixed with the already existing gameplay mechanics! Sometimes I feel like people don’t read the post in detail and just give it a glimpse and say: “Is it a praise thread?” – “Yea great post OP I agree!”; “Is it a criticism post?” – “You’re wrong OP you played too much, you rushed, you’re stuck in WoW mindset yadayadayada”

Ebon.7641:

bojangles.6912:

Caedmon.6798:

I’m seriously wondering why people are even on this forum when all they have to say about this game are negative things.if you honestly think the game is so bad,easy,and has nothing new to bring,why are you here ? Do you even still play the game ? Whats the point of it all besides boring people with your tldrdrdlrdlr ? And do you realize the game has been released for just 2 months,Did you play gw1 and think about how that game was when it just started,and how it turned out to be with all the added expansions ? There is soo much kitten bs on this forum it’s incredible.

People purchased this game like so why are we not allowed to post what we want? Only positive things allowed? Check other gaming forums. This goes on everywhere. People can post as many negative things they want just like those posting positives.

Because it’s always the same people whining about the same things. These people aren’t giving any useful criticism – instead it’s vitriolic hate that does nothing for no one and reveals more about the person saying it than the game itself.

Most criticism I see on here is actually useful, imho: People wanting a deeper skill system, more things to do at 80, a more meaningful quest system, etc. On the contrary, I see posts (not necessarily this one) that are basically copies the ArenaNet’s MMO Manifesto word-for-word, with “ERMAGD BEST GAEM EVA! L2P OR GO PLAY WITH PANDAS LOL” tacked on at the end, followed by posts of people saying stuff like “Yea I agree lol!”, “Good points OP!”, “You sure showed those haters!”. What posts are “useful” must be a matter of perspective, I guess. I agree, developers need encouragement too. But when empty praise is considered “useful” and any criticism is not, its just not good for the game.

NetherDiver.6079:

Pretty sure they were clear about the lack of a necessary gear grind. I can’t say I know that first hand since I didn’t really follow GW2 closely pre release. You may or may not associate that with “end game” but this game has a ton of content at 80. Whether or not they’re fun for everyone and whether or not they’re rewarding enough is questionable. If you are looking for that gear grind, there’s a ton of other gear grind RPG’s out there.

A lot of people knew that there wasn’t going to be gear grind, but expected that ArenaNet would come up with an alternative. Instead, we now have a gaping hole where classic MMO endgame used to be, and somehow some people believe that approach is “better”. Completely removing a feature isn’t “better”. Saying “the whole game is endgame” is a cop-out. You can explore in every MMO ever made. You can craft in almost every one as well. You can get 100% Quest Completion in every MMO. But those are always side-challenges, and there is always a main challenge, the endgame – raiding, guild/faction politics (like EVE), alternative character progression systems (such as planar attunement in Rift), etc etc. GW2 has none of that.

ZombiesTT.3619:

What if I told you that games are not meant to be substitutes for lives? How many hours have you clocked in already?

Really getting tired of people thinking the way they play is the only way to play, and asking for “progress reports” before allowing someone to criticize the game

I mean no offense, but… why??? If you want to play a MOBA, go play a MOBA. I’d prefer if ArenaNet worked on something original.

Lorana.2468:

Get Hype.

Don’t get hyped, or you’ll be disappointed… Nothing ever lives up to the hype. If you approach it critically or maybe even pessimistically, you might get pleasantly surprised =)