Guild Wars 2

Astralporing.1957:

cosmicegg.8502:

I wish I could of indefinitely postponed my payment for HoT.

This.

Don’t worry, we’ll all have plenty of opportunity to postpone payments for the next expansion. It’s going to be very interesting when they start announcing the features of the next expansion. I hope they are prepared for the level of skepticism they have earned.

TheGrimm.5624:

ANet, if possible would recommend going big with the patch notes for this update. The tendency is to touch upon the core bullet points and then leave the rest for people to find. Since you are heading in a new release cycle don’t follow that pattern. Give the players base more details so that they can better appreciate the time you spent and they are left with the feeling that quarterly updates are large scale development cycles that they should be excited for. Overtime some of the best QoL changes have been things that didn’t even appear in notes but people really appreciated. Don’t short change yourself. I know programmers are not always the best at documenting (they would prefer to be creating versus noting things) but more notes the better.

Just 2 cents. Good gaming!

This is actually some excellent advice. Hopefully they are listening.

Now is definitely not the time to be coy about expressing their intentions behind whatever changes they are making. I think that if they make a real attempt to explain what is happening and why, it will help make players feel more “in the loop”, so to speak.

It’s much easier to have a positive discussion about a particular change if, right from the start, you can weed out the plethora of angry posts that were based on incorrect assumptions.

Let’s also keep in mind that just because ANet said that future expacs will include the core game and all previous expacs up to that point, that doesn’t mean that by the time their next expac is ready to ship that they won’t have changed their minds and, shall we say, “altered” the deal. You know, for the “good of the game” and all.

My impression is that sales for HoT were not as good as they had hoped. I can easily see them deciding that they aren’t so eager to give it away for free since they didn’t make as much from it as they initially planned.

True, this is all speculation on my part, but then expecting ANet to honor their commitments seems to be a fast track to disappointment these days.

TLDR: I’ll believe it when I see it.

I think anywhere between $30 – $50 is reasonable for an expansion pack, depending on the features being offered. That said, ANet’s behavior has caused me to create a simple ruleset to determine my purchasing behavior:

1. All content and features must be finished at the time of my purchase. No vapor-ware features.

2. I will not pre-purchase an expansion from ANet. Not ever.

3. If the expansion includes a new profession, it must also include a character slot. Note that this character slot is not “free”; I am paying for the expansion, and it should include a character slot with my purchase. Expecting me to pay more money to purchase a character slot in order to access content I have just purchased is not acceptable to me; nor is expecting me to delete an existing character. This is a deal breaker for me.

Vayne.8563:

Healix.5819:

Behellagh.1468:

1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.

“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)

There’s also the Xunlai Ingot

From the same article:

“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”

Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.

They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.

This goes back to communication and managing customer’s expectations. It should not be the customer’s responsibility to guess whether they “did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it”.

If you state an intention and then later change your mind, it is your responsibility to communicate your new intention. It is not unreasonable for customers to expect you to follow through with your original intention if you have not communicated that you have “changed your mind.”

There will doubtless be someone who rushes to point out that ANet doesn’t want to communicate that kind of thing because people on the forums respond angrily. To which I will respond: Of course they respond angrily. That’s often how people respond when you back out of commitments.

The concept of “Things are subject to change” is not some kind of magical “Get out of jail free” card that absolves them from any level of responsibility to honor their commitments.

They could start by learning to apologize when they screw up.

I…can’t believe anyone is actually trying to argue about whether or not ANet actually announced a full set of 16 weapons and used that announcement as a selling point for HoT. Talk about arguing in bad faith.

This is cut and dry. They said, in essence, “Here is what we will be delivering in this expansion”, they took money for said expansion, and then they declined to deliver what they said they were going to.

Given ANet’s insistence over the years that they never discuss content until they are 100% certain it is deliverable, it was entirely reasonable for people to expect the delivery of the entire new set of legendary weapons.

Arguing anything to the contrary is an argument supporting unethical behavior, no matter how much lipstick you put on the pig.

Absolutely not. But then, I didn’t pre-purchase HoT, either. In fact, I still haven’t purchased HoT, and I can’t see myself doing so any time soon.

I don’t pre-purchase games anymore, and if I was ever to break that rule, it certainly wouldn’t be to purchase an ANet game. I have absolutely zero trust in them.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Most festivals have the same content year after year with only the rewards changing each year. Since this is now a festival they might just change the rewards to keep the interest but not add new worlds.

That was my thought when I read that as well. Not that there’s anything particularly wrong with that, especially if they communicate clearly that it won’t be updated every year.

I love your nice, clean style, and your facial expressions rock!

Gorgeous work here! You are very talented. My favorite is “Embrace the Hunt”; that kitty-cat is fierce!

Edit to add: I also really love “Avatar of The Unknown”. It’s creepy (in a wonderful way!) and I love the way the yellows in this image pop, especially right under the…er…“face”?

CETheLucid.3964:

Well, I’m glad to hear you’re not done just yet then? Here’s hoping for you.

Oh, well, you know, I am quite the eternal optimist. :-)

CETheLucid.3964:

minbariguy.7504:

CETheLucid.3964:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Besides, you can’t get “recourse” as you call it if you want to keep your account, so that’s not an option for everyone.

Sure you can. What does it matter if you feel you can’t trust them and you’ve been cheated? Just take your business elsewhere.

If you can’t accept what they’re trying to do and you feel irreversibly wronged, why continue with them?

So you’re saying that an acceptable recourse that would make things right for the customer and generate goodwill and return business involves permanently closing the customer’s account?

I’m detecting a slight note of insincerity here.

If I put myself in the position that I feel Anet has irreparably betrayed me, why the hell would I care about goodwill or return business?

Close my account, give me my money, good-bye. All there is to it for me as a consumer.

What Anet should do to build goodwill in this situation that they’re in is do their best to explain why they had to put legendary weps on hold and hope the community can—lol that didn’t work.

That statement works great, since you added the word “irreparably”. However, I don’t recall anyone asking how they can get recourse after being “irreparably” betrayed, do you?

Thing is, no one will know how “irreparable” the situation is until Anet actually makes a good faith effort to repair it. Which they seem to be spending exactly zero effort doing.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Xillllix.3485:

All you can do to make them hear your dissatisfaction is stop playing the game or stop buying gems. If they can go as far as to not deliver things they actually got paid to do then there is little hope that they actually care bout anything else than money.

This isn’t necessarily true. I was here in the thick of it for the HoT package pricing protest (hey, that’s kinda catchy). Those of us that thought the packages should be organized differently and include things it didn’t came to the forums and Reddit and expressed our views (like a lot of us are doing now) and they apologized and changed their packages.

Sometimes, expressing your opinion about something they’ve done actually gets results.

While that is true, I think it’s worth noting that they still used the situation to their advantage by only changing the packages for people who agreed to pre-purchase HoT.

In retrospect, knowing now the issues they were having finishing content for this expansion, it suddenly makes a lot more sense why they were in such a hurry to get people to buy it before they had to admit how little was in it.

CETheLucid.3964:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Besides, you can’t get “recourse” as you call it if you want to keep your account, so that’s not an option for everyone.

Sure you can. What does it matter if you feel you can’t trust them and you’ve been cheated? Just take your business elsewhere.

If you can’t accept what they’re trying to do and you feel irreversibly wronged, why continue with them?

So you’re saying that an acceptable recourse that would make things right for the customer and generate goodwill and return business involves permanently closing the customer’s account?

I’m detecting a slight note of insincerity here.

CETheLucid.3964:

minbariguy.7504:

CETheLucid.3964:

OK. They’re not denying anyone recourse. If you feel that strongly about it, you can pursue it.

An ethical company wouldn’t make you pursue recourse; if they knew they had failed to deliver on their end, they would take the initiative on their own to make things right for their customer in order to generate goodwill and return business.

Mike O Brien.4613:

Last year we talked about plans to gradually build out a second set of legendary weapons through live content updates. That’s a big responsibility. We have a team of six developers working on that, who could work on it for years to come.

As game director I have to make tough trade-offs. One thing I believe is that we have to focus on the core game first before taking on additional responsibilities. I wrote in the Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto in 2010 that our vision was to create a living, dynamic world, where there’s always something to do. Let’s ensure we succeed on that front.

So, after shipping Chuka and Champawat, I’ve asked that we indefinitely suspend work on new legendary weapons. This team of developers will instead shift their efforts back to Living World style content, building new journeys and events for everyone to participate in.

I know this will be a controversial decision. I’ll hang out with you here on the forums for a little while today to discuss it. And I’m always available by email.

Mo

Annnnd…I see nothing in that statement that pertains to the part of my post that you underlined. There is no attempt there to make things right for the people that are upset. Just an announcement that legendary weapons are on “indefinite suspension” and that you can pursue recourse by talking to him on the forums for a little while or emailing him.

CETheLucid.3964:

OK. They’re not denying anyone recourse. If you feel that strongly about it, you can pursue it.

An ethical company wouldn’t make you pursue recourse; if they knew they had failed to deliver on their end, they would take the initiative on their own to make things right for their customer in order to generate goodwill and return business.

Rising Blade.9206:

So no responses? seems they’re just going “To hell with it” and just leave this fester for a while and let old players leave? Congratulations, milestone reached, community destroyed.

It doesn’t really surprise me that the Red Post Brigade has fallen back and retreated to their home base. They’re probably trying to hunker down and wait it out, hoping that they don’t have to come back in and — gasp! — actually apologize to the player base (It’s such a rare event that I can only imagine it must cause them actual physical pain) for taking their money and changing the terms of the transaction.

When the community is upset about something, most of the red post responses on these forums are either defensive, out of touch, or just plain arrogant. They do not admit fault. They do not accept blame. And they most certainly do not apologize.

Honestly, the decision to communicate the truth about their changing stance on legendary weapons was the right thing to do, but that doesn’t absolve them from the responsibility of having to take the fallout from the initial decision.

To those people saying “See, this is why they don’t communicate with us!”, I would like to point out that good communication is an investment that yields long-term rewards, not short-term rewards. You can’t just come out, drop a bomb about canceling features that you have already advertised and accepted money for, and then go back into hiding and say “Well, I tried to communicate and they got mad!”

Anet seems to think that we should just read their posts and nod our heads in agreement. They certainly don’t respond well to people questioning their judgement or their statements, as is evident by the complete lack of response to the obvious question that many people have been asking: “Why don’t you take some of the 70 people you have working on the next expansion instead of the only 6 people who are working on legendary weapons?” I would be surprised if they even tried to answer that question, for rather obvious reasons.

In any case, In order to reap the benefits of good communication, you have to do it consistently. Then, when you have built up the trust and goodwill of your player base, they are much more likely to be understanding when you have to deliver bad news. But after my initial positive reaction to seeing Mo willing to communicate, I see that it’s back to business as usual.

Apparently the bottleneck was that six individuals were working on legendary weapons. But don’t worry, now that these six people have been moved, the game is saved!

Sarcasm aside, I’d guess that the bottleneck is probably related to abysmal project management.

evilunderling.9265:

But still, it’s not like they’re breaking any laws by proving incompetent to deliver on their promises — as long as some sort of compensation is offered.

Yes, this should absolutely be their defense here:

“Hey guys, we didn’t break any laws, we’re just incompetent!”

evilunderling.9265:

I can’t say I’m happy that they’re working on the next expansion when the previous one still needs tonnes of work, but I’m fairly sure those 70 people were allocated ages ago, so either they’re left as they are or they get laid off.

I’m confused. What does it matter when those 70 people were assigned to work on the new expansion and why do you claim they have to be left there or laid off? Why can’t they be reassigned to finish HoT content?

It’s clear they had no problem reassigning the legendary weapons team without putting them out of a job. Why can’t they do that with some of the 70 people they have working on the expansion?

Come on, everyone, let’s be fair.

Sure, they are allocating resources towards the next expansion instead of allocating them to finish the expansion you’ve already paid for, but that decision likely comes from higher up the executive chain.

I mean, what is the Lead Game Designer supposed to do about that? It’s not like he’s the president of the company, for pete’s sake.

Oh wait.

While I think this is a questionable decision, I do have to commend the honest communication. Please remember that the unpleasant reaction you are likely to face here is the result of the decision to suspend the development of advertised content, and not the result of the decision to communicate honestly.

I point this out only so you don’t come to the conclusion that you should not communicate because it only upsets people.

Communication is always good, even if it communicates bad news.

That said, although I understand the decision to focus on producing more playable content (and I honestly think the decision is a good one), it’s still a bit of a hard sell to convince people that you are capable of producing gem store content and future expansion content (both of which people will, presumably, have to pay for) but are not capable of producing content that has already been advertised and that people have already paid for.

Well done, OP. Thank you for sharing this.

Gaile Gray.6029:

[SNIP]… But what I’m saying is that while I’ll see if there’s more information to share, this may be a situation where, if changes are made, they roll out without prior announcement.

I guess at this time the most I could say is that this is a known request.

Can someone at least explain why it would even be necessary for these changes to roll out without prior announcement?

It cannot be because ANet doesn’t want to ruin the surprise, since Colin already announced that the changes were coming.

It cannot be because you don’t want to give a specific date, because Colin never gave such a date in the first place (and no one here has asked for a specific date anyway.)

Look, I know; I’ve been pretty salty, and I get that it can be off-putting. But I wasn’t always. There was a time when my post history consisted of thoughtful, measured, optimistic posts (even ones that praised the work you were doing). And I meant every word.

But then the communication started getting just…weird. And this is an example of the kind of communication that has frustrated me to no end.

Like it or not, Colin communicated information. That information is either correct, or it is not.

If it is correct, then there is no reason not to confirm it, since the information is already out there.

If it is not correct, then we have a situation where the impression being given is that ANet is planning to intentionally allow players to believe that information — that was communicated by GW2’s own Game Director — is correct, when internally, they know it is not. And further, they are considering withholding that information right up until the last possible second, where changes are released into the game that may or may not be in line with what was communicated.

Personal feelings aside, Gaile, can you honestly say that you don’t see why some customers resent being treated this way? Does Mike O’Brien honestly not understand the kind of message this kind of communication style sends? I get that ANet wants us to be respectful when we communicate , but I am not getting the feeling that ANet understands that respect is a two-way street.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I specifically entitled it “Comments about Communications.” I’m sorry if it appeared this was an offer to have a conversation for that was not at all what I meant.

Yes, in general, I think that if you’re going to start a thread that you have no intention of participating in, it would be a good idea to make that crystal clear from the get-go.

That said, I do absolutely believe you when you say that you didn’t intend for this thread to be a conversation with us. That, actually, is part of the problem.

You say that you played GW2 when it first came out and then quit, but you don’t say why. Without knowing what made you unhappy enough to quit in the first place, it’s hard to say whether or not purchasing HoT would be worth it.

Do the features of HoT in any way address the issues that made you quit in the first place? If so, then maybe it is a worthy purchase for you.

If not, then…probably not worth the purchase.

For me, it is not worth it.

It’s an expensive expansion with little actual content, and what content there is is mostly raids, pvp, and content geared toward hard-core players that asked for more difficult content.

It also includes a new profession, but does not include a character slot, so in addition to already spending at least fifty bucks, you will then have to turn around and spend another ten bucks on a character slot if you do not have an unused one available (or delete an existing character). No thank you.

That’s the single biggest reason for my decision not to purchase HoT. I am not going to encourage this kind of “Let’s squeeze our players for every last dollar” approach to game development. I feel that if they are not willing to provide a suitable amount of content I am interested in at a fair price — without extra “hidden” fees like the need to purchase a character slot to access content you have ALREADY PAID FOR! — then they are simply not interested in my money; and I am not interested in in giving it to them.

Add this to their dismal record of communication with their players and I am in an indefinite holding pattern. If I see improvement in their attitudes towards their customers, then I would love to be an ANet supporter again. Until I see that happening, however, my wallet remains closed.

Not a chance.

As a rule, I do not pre-purchase games anymore. And after they cheaped out on HoT by charging fifty bucks for a tiny expansion that they wouldn’t even include a measly character slot with unless you pre-purchased, I certainly wasn’t about to break that rule. It was a sleazy manipulation tactic.

Heck, I still haven’t purchased HoT, and I don’t plan on doing so in the near future, either.

TheGrimm.5624:

I will counter that, a terrible first post.

If your first post is not even on your own official forums that makes me question spending anymore money on GW. That tells me the tools that your own team created are not worth using and instead you go else where to post. Why not just close these forums down then and move them completely to Reddit. That was a terrible first move. Makes me not even care what information was shared right now since it already has left a negative feeling on the game. -100 on this one ANet.

I agree, but then I’m actually shocked that he participated in an AMA at all, anywhere, given the attitude he’s displayed in the past towards communicating with the players.

I recall his “Communicating With You” thread, where he started a “discussion” by stating that no matter what the players wanted, ANet wasn’t going to provide any information about game features or content until they were basically finished being developed. He then disappeared from the thread, never to return, ignoring all responses to his initial post. He clearly had no interest in discussing the matter with the community.

Of course, at the time of that post, he had exactly TWO posts in his entire posting history — and that includes the “Communicating With You” post — so I think it’s best not to expect much in the way of communication from him. And if he does communicate something, I would expect exactly nothing in the way of responding to player concerns as a result of that communication.

I do not see this as being a positive move for the game. Not at all.

Gaile Gray.6029:

[SNIP] But I’m also aware that communication comes through many forms, including that demonstration through actual game changes.

I could not disagree more. Keeping silent until a change goes live on the servers cannot possibly be considered a form of communication. If this is the company’s current philosophy regarding communication, it explains a lot.

If there exists a Communications Team that is interested in discussing communication, would it not be better discussed in the thread that was created by the Communications Team for the purpose of discussing communication? It’s called “Comments about Communications”, and can be found by clicking here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Comments-about-Communications-1/

I am honestly not trying to be harsh, but I think it is fair to say that that thread has not seen a good faith effort to participate in the discussion by anyone who works at ANet. Seeing the lack of dialogue in that thread, it’s hard not to come away with the impression that communicating with players is not a priority.

JediYoda.1275:

Frankly the community is tired of lip service “Anet saying we know we need to communicate more with the community”

Yeah, they’re not even bothering to say that anymore. If they do think that their communication needs improvement, they are most certainly not — surprise!-- COMMUNICATING IT.

For me, a company that is completely unable to acknowledge their shortcomings is a HUGE turnoff. It comes off as arrogant and uncaring. I never used to feel this way about ANet, but in the last couple of years, they’ve made quite an impression on me.

A bad one.

I just wanted to give Roy Cronacher some major props for his communication here. As of the time of my posting, Roy not only started this thread, but he has responded nine (nine!) times in five pages, and every single post has contained useful information.

I’m not saying that there aren’t other dev and/or community people who communicate well (there are), but Roy’s level of communication in this thread is pretty freakin’ impressive. Kudos.

On topic, I think these changes to minions sound pretty solid.

subaru.5246:

Thanks Rococo, I’m hoping there’ll be an open slot by Friday. I would like to create a Revenant and try it out. I don’t want to delete any other chars as most are 80 or near there.

Well, you can always just purchase another character slot from the gem store. I mean, that’s what they want you to do anyway, hence the manipulative pre-order scheme.

Derenek.8931:

GW2 is the total opposite philosophy, it feels like it is about “give them as little as we can without losing customers.”

^^^THIS.^^^

That sums up my feelings towards ANet right now perfectly. I mean, they can’t even throw in one character slot without a slimy pre-purchase scheme? I’m sorry, but that is simply corporate greed. Period.

Ayrilana.1396:

They do still get the core game for free as they’re applying HoT towards a new (or F2P) account. This was stated in their blog back in June.

What you’re not understanding is that a company is not required to provide bonus incentives to any customers for the purchase of its product. Nor are they required to be equitable amongst their customer segments when it comes to purchase incentives. This practice is common out in the real world. Cable and phone companies often give discounts to new customers, for example.

You have to realize that prices tend to fall over time so newer players will normally get a better deals than those who were early adopters. This goes for many things outside of the game as well. How much do you think players spent to purchase Prophecies, Factions, and Nightfall when they were first released? Those are now selling as a trilogy for $30. How about Prophecies and EotN? Those two are selling as a set for $20. In fact, those who purchase both products only get a single copy of GW as the Prophecies/EotN bundle has only a single product key.

You’re also discounting all of the time that existing players have had to play the game over new players including any and all content that cannot be experienced again. How many new players will be able to experience the assault on the Ancient Karka or witness the destruction of LA?

New players also have to start from scratch. If existing players want the same deal as new players have, apply the HoT product code to a new account. You’ll be on the same equal footing as new players minus all of the knowledge and experiences that you have acquired from playing the game.

Ah. Then I have , in fact, understood it correctly. That’s what I thought.

Btw, I have no complaints at all about the actual price point. None. I would have gladly paid fifty dollars if they had only included a character slot without requiring a pre-purchase. That is the only change I have ever asked for throughout the entire HoT release, and it is, for me, an absolute deal-breaker.

They are obviously not obligated to provide said character slot.

I am obviously not obligated to purchase the products of a company that I feel does not value its repeat customers.

Ayrilana.1396:

minbariguy.7504:

So…we know that there will be no character slot included in the core edition of HoT upon release. Understood. But what about the free core GW2 game? Do new players still get the free core game with the purchase of HoT after release?

If not, how do new players acquire the core game after release? How much does it cost?

If so, how are veterans being treated equally with a scheme in which new players get their bonus regardless of when they purchase HoT, while veterans only get their bonus if they pre-purchase (and won’t get anything once HoT actually releases)?

Seems like a double standard, unless I have misunderstood how this works.

You misunderstood how this works.

Why, thank you kindly. Care to explain?

ETA: And by “explain”, I mean answer the questions of whether or not new customers still receive the core GW2 game when purchasing HoT after release, and if not, how much the core game costs them.

So…we know that there will be no character slot included in the core edition of HoT upon release. Understood. But what about the free core GW2 game? Do new players still get the free core game with the purchase of HoT after release?

If not, how do new players acquire the core game after release? How much does it cost?

If so, how are veterans being treated equally with a scheme in which new players get their bonus regardless of when they purchase HoT, while veterans only get their bonus if they pre-purchase (and won’t get anything once HoT actually releases)?

Seems like a double standard, unless I have misunderstood how this works.

Viili.1205:

My worries are that as I had to purchase HoT outside GW2 store, if there happens a some kind of a delay in my order and it will not arrive before the 23rd, will I miss out the additional character slot?
For me it sounds quite harsh for the veteran reward to be such a limited time offer when I myself know some other ‘veterans’ who can’t necessary purchase HoT before November.

Yes, you will miss out on the character slot, because despite what they say, it is not a “veteran reward”. It is a “pre-purchaser” reward. Because frankly, if you’re not throwing money at your screen before HoT is released, they really couldn’t care less that you even exist, let alone that you’re a veteran.

Wow that was the best trailer I’ve ever seen for a game/expansion I have no intention of buying. Great job!

Jimson.5168:

When it’s against the rules for me to not post in any thread I choose, I’ll stop.

Which was actually my point. You asked:

Jimson.5168:

And now for the obligatory question… Why is this thread still alive?

As shocking as this may seem, everyone else has the same right to post here that you do, and many have chosen to keep posting as well. Hence the reason this thread is still alive despite your disapproval.

Jimson.5168:

You all may talk amongst yourselves. Enjoy!

May we??? Thank you, oh Benevolent One, for your permission. We can all breathe easier now.

Jimson.5168:

No one is holding a sword to your throat to buy it sight unseen.

Likewise, no one is holding a sword to your throat to force you to click on this thread and reply multiple times.

Ayrilana.1396:

minbariguy.7504:

Well, according to Gaile, they have given veteran players a free character slot. She didn’t mention anything about needing to pre-purchase:

Gaile Gray.6029:

We’ve given veteran players a free character slot, and as others have pointed out, a beta test is not a demo or a preview. If you’re unsure about purchasing Heart of Thorns, consider reviewing our extensive Heart of Thorns website for a great deal of information, then make the decision that is right for you.

It seems that way because you’re taking it out of context.

I quoted her post in its entirety. It happens to be written in such a way as to make ANet seem more generous than they truly are, as well as being a false statement.

If it had been said “We’ve given veteran players who pre-purchased HoT a free character slot…” perhaps the meaning would have been more clear, and less insulting to those of us who are veterans but are not pre-purchasing.

But hey, why should a Communications Team Lead worry about, like, words and stuff?

No matter. I’m done. I uninstalled GW2 last night, so they no longer have to concern themselves about how to wring more money out of me.

Does anyone want my stuff?

Well, according to Gaile, they have given veteran players a free character slot. She didn’t mention anything about needing to pre-purchase:

Gaile Gray.6029:

We’ve given veteran players a free character slot, and as others have pointed out, a beta test is not a demo or a preview. If you’re unsure about purchasing Heart of Thorns, consider reviewing our extensive Heart of Thorns website for a great deal of information, then make the decision that is right for you.

Zylonite.5913:

Please remind yourself that as a player you are worth less than the dust laying down under the carpet in ANet’s office.

LOL! Wow. Hey, maybe that should be ANet’s business slogan, or perhaps even a forum auto-response to any critiques or suggestions made on the official forums.

That oughta drum up business, right?

Heylel.2109:

On a side note I feel ANet policy being completely disagreeable, no real benefits (Sorry but one slot isn’t really worth much to me.) for the Veterans compared to how Newcomers will get the Core Game for free is a really unpleasant choice to make, something that made me decide to steer clear from HoT. But all I can, and will do, is just providing this feedback and hoping that for future releases they’ll do better.

I do not want Free slots or discounts, saying “They will have not my money as long they dont…” is a mixture of begging and blackmailing that feels really unpleasant when it comes to playing videogames, I just hope that in the future ANet will make choices more considerate toward the ones who had choose to support them from the start.

Not sure I understand your point, as you seem to be contradicting yourself.

On the one hand, you seem to be saying that if someone says they will not support ANet financially as long as they engage in certain behaviors, that’s begging, blackmail, and entitlement.

Then you proceed to tell us how you refuse to purchase HoT because of certain behaviors being demonstrated by ANet.

What, exactly, is the difference? In both cases, one is providing feedback and withholding financial support. Have I misunderstood what you are saying?

Galen Grey.4709:

a character slot isnt required.

I would love to see you create a revenant without one.

Galen Grey.4709:

Not everyone has all character slots used…

Irrelevant.

and there is always the option to delete a character.

Yes, and I mentioned that already. It’s a crappy option.

Galen Grey.4709:

Its also been 8 months since HoT has been announced making 75 silver a day would have earned anyone enough to buy it using in game money.

I shouldn’t have to save up in-game money if I am already giving them my real-life money.

Galen Grey.4709:

Thats not considering not everyone is interested in rolling a revanant.

Also irrelevant.

Galen Grey.4709:

That also not considering as it is right now all you need to is buy the game the day before release rather then on release day and you’d also get the slot for free.

There is no reason on Earth for ANet to require me to pre-purchase just to get a character slot to play the new profession. I do not pre-purchase, period. It doesn’t matter if they want me to pre-purchase a month before release, a day, or even five minutes. I won’t be manipulated into rewarding this kind of business behavior. Release your product, make sure it is good quality and contains everything I need to access the features of said product, and then take my money. Not before.

Galen Grey.4709:

How exactly did you decide a free character slot should be standard with any expansion that has a new profession? Wrath of the lich king had a new profession, didnt give a free character slot. Heavensward has 3, no free character slot. Both of rifts expansions had new souls yet no extra character slot. Checking the latest offering, the collectors edition that costs 135 euro doesnt give you a free character slot.

You keep using the word “free” to describe this character slot. Once again, if I am paying a company fifty dollars for an expansion that includes a new class/profession, I think it is reasonable to expect it to include a character slot for that price. Hence, not free.

Galen Grey.4709:

Yes some games are nice and include a free character slot when they release new classes…

And now we can agree that Guild Wars 2 (or rather ANet, the company) is not nice.

Galen Grey.4709:

…but thats far from a standard.

Though it is worth pointing out that it was standard practice for this game I used to play for quite a few years. It released several stand-alone campaigns, and I bought them all. I was a pretty loyal supporter of the company that made the game, too. I believe it was called “Guild Wars”. Perhaps you’ve heard of it?

Also, I wonder whatever happened to the company that made it?

In any case, Galen, I think we’ve taken this as far as we can go. You have your opinion, and are certainly entitled to it, as I am to mine. Neither of us is going to change the other’s mind, so there’s no point in continuing our debate.

Heylel.2109:

Oh, yeah… I agree on that, for a moment I thought you were required to purchase a character slot even if you had a free one already in your account…

SHHH!!! Don’t give them any ideas! :-P

(Kidding!)

(Sort of)

Heylel.2109:

minbariguy.7504:

And that’s my problem. A character slot is required in order to access the new profession. It should not be considered a “bonus”.

What you mean ‘required’?

You cannot create a revenant without an available character slot. If you do not have one available, ANet is expecting you to either delete an existing character that you have already spent a significant amount of time leveling, or pay an additional ten dollars on top of the fifty dollars you have already paid them for the expansion. Which is absolute rubbish.

Both scenarios are unacceptable, and the only way to avoid them is to give in and pre-purchase. But then, that was the intent all along.

Galen Grey.4709:

Thats the deal with bonuses, you go out of your way (pre-purchase), they go out of their way (give you bonuses).

And that’s my problem. A character slot is required in order to access the new profession. It should not be considered a “bonus”.

I have absolutely no problem with them giving extra stuff to people willing to pre-purchase. But when they try to withhold something that should be a standard component of any expansion pack that features a new playable profession and try to pass it off like it’s some wonderful “extra”, I have a problem with that.

They could have given away a thousand extra bonuses and I would have been fine with that. But a character slot is something that I expect to receive when I pay for an expansion that features a new profession. And again, I’m not asking for a “free” character slot. If I’m paying fifty bucks, it should be included in that price.

Galen Grey.4709:

Funny I thought they’re giving you the character slot not holding on to it so tightly yet you’re still say you’re quiting so who’s exactly setting the precedent here. Arenanet who gave in to what players wanted and gave the free character slot away or you who’s essentially telling them next time dont bother, sell that character slot rather then giving it away because its not like we’ll be happy about it so whats the point?

They are only giving the character slot to those who pre-purchase the expansion. I will not pre-purchase. Therefore:

They are most certainly not giving me the character slot.

Because apparently simply giving them my money at the same time they provide the product I am paying for isn’t good enough for them.

clarkcd.6532:

The only issue I had was that they were releasing a new class but were not releasing a character slot to go with it. That has been rectified and I am once again a happy GW2 player.

Meh. It certainly hasn’t been rectified as far as I’m concerned. An additional (not “free”, mind you, because the expansion costs money) character slot is a basic requirement for any expansion that comes with a new profession.

They spun the whole “free” character slot issue as though they were doing us some kind of giant favor, when in fact they were simply using it to drum up pre-purchase sales among their existing player base.

Sorry, but I refuse to be grateful for something that should be included in the price of HoT to begin with. What they are selling, with all the enthusiasm of a snake oil salesman, is something that is claimed to be “free” while they attach strings and conditions to whether or not you qualify to receive it.

I will not pre-purchase HoT (or any other game/expansion). I refuse. It sets a terrible precedent and encourages game companies to feel entitled to our money before they even have a completed product to release. That, right there, is where I draw the line. And if they intend (as they obviously do) to withhold a HoT character slot from me because I will not hand over my cash before they are ready to hand over the product, then that will be the final straw.

I’m done.

Uninstall, don’t look back, and nobody gets my stuff.

ETA: ANet, I hope that character slot you are holding on to so tightly was worth losing a customer over.