Guild Wars 2

the light helps in some of the darker areas (first “dark area” is woods in zone 2 but zone 3 is where it comes in handy)

It also burns down the sticky plants in zone 3 allowing you to pass unmolested.

hehe i was tempted to ask that

Iphones have Autocorrect, Thieves have Last Refuge!

But seriously… a trait that you cannot choose not to take if you want a certain trait line that is outside of your control that triggers a mechanic that actively punishes you for using it is a BAD idea, it always has been and it always will be.

meh heartseekers pretty terrible for all but a finisher, your better off auto attacking than spamming it if they are above 50% hp and of course comes with a fair bit of downsides in any given real situation.

Any of the changes to it you stated would totally destroy it for many many builds to solve a non-existant issue.

vespers.1759:

Dasorine.1964:

vespers.1759:

normal? yes. acceptable? no.

the thief class is just the worst thing ever. 8k hits, stealth every 3 seconds… it truly a class for scrubs.

no complaining on the forums because you died to someone is for scrubs, 8k is hardly the highest damage obtainable in a single button press in this game and stealth is easy to counter if you actually pay attention and learn patterns.

let me guess… you play a thief.

let me guess… you play a glass cannon build with no defense who got ambushed once by another glass cannon build who managed to kill you and because you think your the all glorious master of the game that any time you die due to your own build choice everything else must be wrong?

as long as the level of the item matches the level requirement of the rune/gem/orb/crest etc its fine.

As astral says check the rune for the level and the level of the item is the level it requires to wear it.

Not regularly no and tbh im getting bored of this arguement your entire reason for the change is because you want a new skill for YOUR build and don’t beleive anyone else could find value in using it in any other build.

So no, this is a bad change just like every other change you’ve suggested so far.

the problem with evades on ranged attacks is (specially with thief ranged) they’ll often put you out of position for shooting, not so much a problem if the move is entirely based around that function (disabling shot) but if its tacked on to other moves that are used for their actual effects such as head shot or unload it fast becomes a pain in the butt.

the 2 better idea’s would really be:

A) Give attacks slight control effects (short duration immobs/cripples/chills/stuns etc) this allows you to manually avoid many things by keeping most the threat away from you (with stuns and dazes even stopping the attacks) but with the downside of not actually being an evade for those damage you can’t just stroll out of.

B) Give endurance recovery/vigor granting effects, this means while the skill doesn’t its self evade it gives you more option to manually evade which is generally going to be more usable.

holy necro batman!

Just to stalk someone… many necromancers really are creepy :P

YourOwnFear.2743:

I would welcome the change because after that kind of change there would be 0 whining over backstab thief (or that person would be laughed off the forums by every class) and other weapon sets would get buffed so we can have more viable builds. As it stands right now I have 0 problems perma stealthing into position to engage with backstab. If you are engaging early enough to get countered (other than aegis) then you were outplayed and should be punished.

The thief should be about finesse and outplaying your opponent with our high mobility and how easy it is to change position without being tracked. I do think with that kind of change a damage boost would be in order to reward good play.

Unfortunately the most likely scenario is that it would get the nerf and then something else would get nerfed a long with it and we’d get a token buff a long the lines of “dagger auto attack poison now lasts 1s longer”

Stooperdale.3560:

The difficulty with providing a solo/duo mode for dungeons is that players take that as the easiest option and groups for story dungeons will vanish entirely. This is what happened in other MMOs. Given that the personal story works as solo content, regardless of the story dungeons, I’d rather see a group finder tool solve all problems creating groups everywhere. I cannot believe that across a week, across all servers, there will not be enough people to run story mode dungeons. I’d rather see new dungeons developed rather than any tampering with the story modes, since the story modes are generally good dungeons.

Its not about how easy it is to get a story mode group its how jarring having a story mode group is to anyone actually trying to follow and feel immersed in their personal story.

Doing your missions your helping the destinys edge and you get a person email about the dungeon, you head there and get a group and the characters completely ignore you for who ever it chose to make the “leader” of the dungeon… kind of disappointing, with Arah story being THE most fundamental wtf moment that occurs from this.

well what your getting is actually closer to the real average most those high ones tend to be exaggerated by one side or the other.

They are possible but you have to go more or less all the way full glass and heap on as much power and crit damage as possible. some more zerkers (loose vit, gain precision so you can sacrifice precision else where such as buffs etc) further into deadly arts for more power, the right food+utility buffs etc etc.

It also depends heavily on the targets your hitting if you target the squishies and try and distinguish up-levels from actual 80’s that alone could up your damage somewhat.

wait until we see that the trap actually does first before introducing troll bait like this.

the funnier thing is that they took similar damage from a staff elementalist at the same time.

hehe wonder how long before people jumping off high places and dieing start yelling “OP Thieves”

I’d kill for protection :P

it IS needed at later levels though, you will not beat jade maw without at least 1 person in your team having sufficient AR for the level.

Teens are nothing compared to later levels where with no AR the agony will one shot you.

Zenith.7301:

The point is, he can kitten up and get out. Another class kittens up, they die. You use your kits poorly on engineer or miss a prybar? Goodbye.

Only slightly better than others, stealth and the one or two shadowsteps are not a guaranteed escape against experienced players and of course because of the way the class is balanced its a lot easier to go down after a mistake than anyone else.

You keep talking as if stealth is a guaranteed escape mechanism which it is not.

of course it is! its all the peoples boons! now hail the moletariat!

Gamblit.5041:

Last Refuge Use Blinding Powder when your health reaches 25% (90-second cooldown.
Descent of Shadows Release blinding powder when you take falling damage. Take 50% less damage from falling.

Instinctual Response Use feathers to blind and stealth when you take more than 10% of your health in a single strike. This effect can only trigger once every 60 seconds.

Now we have Traits that gives us 3 second reveal debuff every time we hit 25% HP, or fall down, or on hit.

Hip hip Hooray for 3 useless traits now!

unfortunately this is what happens when you hear a few complaints about a few specific things and then blanket nerf an entire mechanic because of it rather than fix the specific problems.

because this isn’t an isometric arpg?

I’ve never seen this style of game with click to move… and it would be a pain more than anything (I couldn’t see doing jumping puzzles with click to move)

Ethics.4519:

-2

They don’t need a larger health pool. That’s the exact opposite of what should happen. If anything it should be a lower health pool. But there should be more mechanics like jormag (1st half) but more interesting. Say make the wing help block attacks, like a shield, so then you focus the wing down and it falls off. I definitely agree with it moving around. Adds and CCs don’t add to the event, just make it more tedious.

Some definitely do need larger health pools, namely the low level zone ones, behemoth and Maw shaman often die before people who did the pre-events can actually arrive, Jungle wurm has been killed multiple times BEFORE he finished spawning (before his health bar popped up in the event box and thus didn’t reward chests) those ones definitely need more health and better scaling.

EasymodeX.4062:

Dasorine.1964:

shatters not a utility its a class skill is it not? Im talking actual utility slots, you can still fire off stuff like charge mantra’s without having to wait between each one.

Phantasmal Disenchanter and Defender will overwrite existing clones and phantasms. They will also be overwritten by mere clones if you have 3 phantasms up.

I still don’t understand why they decided to blanket nerf the mechanic rather than properly fix the bits that are causing the proper problems (and not just complaints by people who think stealth is invincibility)

Because the “blanket nerf” is, in fact, a directed fix for repeated spammy stealths (without affecting stealth stacking, which should probably also be nerfed, but would impact current gameplay a hell of a lot more).

Overwritten isn’t same as not work at all, you still get the effect you click the next button for it just replaces an older one.

So then no one should be able to spam any similiar moves back to back, so if you want to fire off another clone you have to wait for the old ones to time out else your cooldown goes to waste, if people want to put another stack of boons on they have to wait a set period after the last one popped before they use the move.

The fact the people think constantly being stealthed is an issue is just bad, someone staying in stealth is doing NOTHING to you, they at best are escaping without giving you a reward but they are still for all purposes defeated.

If they are doing something to you they are either already activating revealed (how it should be) or are doing CnD spam which should be fixed but specifically so and even thats 1 medium hit every 3-4 seconds predictably.

Its almost like people have never played an MMO with a stealth class before really…

Sure other mmo’s contain a ton of reveals rather than a 3s duration but they also compensate for that with permastun systems for the thief, which is worse than a constantly disappearing thief as you actually don’t have any way to fight back during the chain stun compared to now where you can basically just fight like normal even when they vanish and have a good chance of killing them.

if you go by some people its to promote “creative problem solving” to get around them or lucky pre-made guild raids rather than zone pugs.

but yeah would love to know if covering the entire floor with the roof warps at the same time is intentional

it should be 65%

pfft all the change will do is put limiters on thieves, people will still complain incessantly due to being terrible at pvp.

I’ve experienced this as well, I hit stealth and stand there and not only do I not get boons, I don’t teleport away and I don’t instantly kill everyone on the map…

Whats more people actually run over to where Im invisible and start hitting me with non aoe moves and I die!

Sebrent.3625:

I don’t see it as a nerf. I see it as a mechanic fix.

No one else says “I used big-hit-X and it was blocked, I’ll just use big-hit-X immediately again because it doesn’t matter”.

well first off no one elses big-hit-x requires positional and pre-use of other abilities to use, also press ` new set of weapon skills for them! which will probably include a new big hit move! wow magic!

Yes not all of them can do that… but wait then whats the “norm”? to have big hitters on weapons that you can swap between or not? should we change it because some do and some don’t have such effects on their weapons as well?

what pve encounters can be cheesed with CnD spam exactly? open world mobs around the place? most people can and do just run past them anyway, bosses? well your not really going to acheive much if you spend all your time stealthed, dungeon mob skipping? doesn’t help if your the only one that gets by.

Theres maybe one or two passages outside of dungeons where you could potentially get away with CnDing through, but its not like you can just keep doing CnD on the same mob, stack up an hour of stealth and instant kill things with it, however there are time when shadow refuges extended stealth comes in handy, or where you may need a few more seconds of stealth thus burning a limited utility and such.

And you know what? even if they do those changes people will still complain, people will still claim its overpowered, people will still get cheesed.

Granted this is true for all changes but this would currently be just a straight up nerf to a profession rather than fixing unintended side effects, something they’ve claimed a fair few times they wouldn’t do.

I mean I wouldn’t even mind if it WAS just fixing the main “problem” area’s, such as preventing combo field abuse (have it so comboing counts as an attack thus revealing you) or overly spammy use of cloak and dagger (find some way to prevent cloak and dagger being used imiediately after stealth ends naturally for instance or remove all/most damage from it so the thief isn’t actually acomplishing anything) its the fact that its a blanket nerf to combinations that were not that strong for the cost or other stuff.

thats where the whole coordination thing comes in, its not coordination if people are firing off combo fields and disrupting what others are trying to set up.

Unfortunately rather than target the cheese/exploitative behaviour (CnD chaining, out of combat combo abuse etc etc) they’d rather do sweeping nerfs to mechanics in a way that effects off-spec builds and the weaker areas of thieves (PvE for instance) than address them.

Deified.7520:

If each class gets one skill that if they hit a thief or someone invisible with, it pulls them out, there would probably be 50% less complaints about thiefs. Now of course they really need to buff the other theif builds before doing this.

You’d also have a lot less thieves, because why would anyone play cannon fodder profession that has next to no usable defense in any situation?

Unfortunately this would result in certain overly powered combos, most probably only on a few classes.

I’d rather they improve elite skills, shorten cooldowns or buff up power of them and introduce more of em.

XZERO.3014:

Dasorine.1964:

with cluster bombs long travel time and short bleed duration it really doesn’t work like you think it does and is infact better as a direct damage attack than a condition attack.

And I’ll just reiterate the point of just because you like to limit your self to 2 skills in a weapon set doesn’t mean everyone else should pay for your lack of use of everything else.

Is that a joke? I use my skills according to situation, like most next Lvl players.

If you play wow you’ll know that you want to save a death knights death grip for a hunter disengage right? Same thing with death blossom, I use it to reduce incoming damage, I’ve won fights with 1k hp against other thieves because they don’t know that death blossom is worthy to use as a damage reducing skill.

Maybe i should post this on arena junkies, I won’t have narrow minded people who just try to get the biggest numbers, because numbers mean nothing when your dead.

Game play and style will always beat numbers, good players can make those numbers mean nothing. When/if a.net implies rating/mmo in spvp arena, we will see what builds are truly good, but right now everything is work in progress and so far I see death blossom crippling burst thieves who use it for more then high numbers.

So you find it works well as a defensive move but you don’t want it to be just a defensive move you want to change it so that it works better for your build specifically regardless of its effects on untold numbers of other builds and thieves?

And you don’t see an issue with that?

In that case I want heartseekers direct damage reduce but I want it to apply some conditions and I want backstab to do no damage but refresh all conditions on the target and put a condition removal block on them!

Trying to argue with Daecollo is like trying to argue with a brick wall.

SoM currently is fine for those people that have builds that can utilize it well, those who don’t have such builds will always get more benefit from the other 2 heals in any case.

If you increase the healing it does it will start doing way more healing than either of the two other heals, considering a dagger dagger thief can already outheal and untraited hide in shadows with it.

Stooperdale.3560:

“One thing that has always bothered me with the thief is the initiative mechanic. Most of the time I felt like there was no point in weapon swapping as a thief since your initiative stays the same amount anyway and you’d have to wait for regen. I’d prefer cool downs tbh, or if Anet can give us +4 initiative every time we swap weapons”

Why? Weapon swapping is a mechanic and there’s no reason why this mechanic should give you a bonus any more than swapping your armor. As a concept, it is ridiculous for a ranger to put away one bow and get out another bow because it will be faster somehow. Not having artificial incentives to swap weapons seems like a strange reason to dislike the thief.

Its not so much wanting a bonus as wanting less of a penalty.

Ranger: burns all 4 skills on thier sword/dagger, switches to shortbow has 4 more cooldowns
Thief: Burns all initiative on sword/dagger, switches to shortbow still has no initiative.

The bonus of the initiative system is we get to choose how we spend it but thats not as much freedom as non-thieves seem to think.

As it stands the grand master trait that gives initiative on swap allows you access to 1 use of the cheapest skill available to that weapon set (3 initiative cost)

Ideally swapping giving 6 (in some fashion, 3 base 3 traited or such) would allow you to utilize upto 2 of your cheapest attack or 1 of any of the others upon swapping, alleviating that lack of reasons to ever consider swapping (outside of fleeing or auto attack range changing) without giving people that much to complain about as even 2 of the cheap attacks is still fairly inferior to a full set of 4 more cooldowns.

Ensign.2189:

I cannot help but marvel at a patch that nerfs thief in PvE and nerfs warrior in PvP. Do the developers even play this game? Do they even talk to anyone who plays this game?

From what I understand they talk to some pvpers and we all know how rational and concerned about balance against them pvpers always are in games

Invulnerability would be so much better than going invisible, I’ll take 1 please!

then escapes will be guaranteed and good players wouldn’t be able to just ignore a large portion of my defense!

I doubt non thieves would prefer to sit there watching a thief /dance while being able to do absolutely nothing to them though, only people like you really find stealth that bad and anyone can check your post history and see what I mean by “people like you”

In reality you really cannot compare the two, only the dregs of pvp see invisibility as anything close to on par with invuln

The issue with that humorless is that even full tank spec thieves margin is much lower than others without utlizing that evasion/blind etc so while you do get to take a bit longer over doing so your sustainable face tanking time is still incredibly low.

At least unless your playing boon stealer

but thats not a random number generated thing, there is no random number generation determining whether you manage to hit your enemy or not, if your failing to get a tick of healing from signet of malice then your failing to hit your enemy.

That is not because of a random number, its because you did something wrong and failed to hit your target.

If you DONT like healing off your target (which putting a cooldown on wouldn’t stop you missing heals if your missing hits anyway) you use THE OTHER HEALS.

because lots of people like pvp, plus later on theres not much else to do.

Im sueing, not selling Protection or Blocking to a thief is discrimination!

the nerf will only hinder those that where trying to use it for other things, those that use it in pvp will still faceroll the majority of the people who struggle with how it is now simply because they still won’t learn how to counter it.

Unfortunately that just means they’ll continue to whine and no doubt Anet will kowtow and nerf us some more on a continual cycle until its carebear central.

bhagwad.4281:

swinsk.6410:

MrForz.1953:

bhagwad.4281:

Wake me up when other classes can one shot GCs without warning and at range.

Well, even an Engi’s Static Discharge Rifle build can do that, if you really want to open debates.

Mesmer with s/p + shatter and illusionary leap.

This happens without warning? Really? I can’t take evasive measures? Thief’s can one shot GCs who don’t even know they’re there. No question of evasive measures.

Would really love to know how to 1 shot people and how to make sure they can’t possibly see me coming, please explain.

Stealth isn’t permenant, at least not without burning all your initiative and cooldowns and thief skills have some of the lowest skill coefficients in the game (beaten only by people who have conditions or AoE attached to almost all their skills)

So to get to someone with no chance of them seeing you, you have to be using up all your resources just for walking around, to do the damage you need to chain together at LEAST 3 skills which in ideal conditions takes 1 second but conditions are rarely ideal and is more 2-3 seconds with 4 seconds being the absolute limit before its “failed” all of which is ignoring the fact that you don’t have the cooldowns or the initiative to actually pull it off because you’ve been “unseen”

So yeah… clearly ONE shotting with no way to know they are around…

Of course no one else can possibly come close while having more overall use! nope! no one they can’t do more damage over a similiar average time period or with less set up and none of them get defenses and sustainability to stay AFTER the burst to mop up anyone else, thieves truly are unique and totally OP [/sarcasm]

there are level requirements for certain upgrades based on the level requirement for equipment.

Some things like mad memories and heroes band (from special edition) have no level requirement so they can only take the lowest quality upgrade items.

but thats not the only reason thieves don’t appear in high level sPvP, its mostly because they have nothing static to protect them and at that level the players actually know how to fight against stealth (Heres a big hint: Don’t just stand there doing nothing)

And with the thieves in WvW if they are moving with a group and yet people are complaining how OP they are solo it makes no sense, if its 1 thief vs a group then the group should be able to at the very least chase the thief off if not outright kill them, they really are not hard to deal with if you’ve ever figured it out.

The fact is sebrent you’ve been spewing rubbish all day about what thieves can and cannot do with flawed information behind it to the point where its questionable whether you’ve ever played a thief or any content outside of hotjoin spvp and sitting around the middle of a field in wvw all day.

GW2 is actual an evil pokemon game! Gotta stab em all!

yep the first chain will vary depending on character creation options, Im assuming you both chose differently at that, however once you move onto the order questlines, if you both join the same order they should merge there, and of course the final line is all merged but with options between them.

However you could see it as a bonus and a way to see more than just the one storyline if you like that sort of thing.

any way to constantly increases stats will only result in massive balance and equality issues to the point where eventually join date for the game would become the most important thing and new players would have no chance