Guild Wars 2

Hey how about this. Play D/D Ele without EA in a tournament, and tell us how thing goes for you. Then request the nerf to EA.

If you think turrets are broken, then play it. Make more people rage about it and post on the forums. The more people realize how cancer it is, the better. All those people who think turrets are easy to beat, they haven’t met an organized turrets engi team. They think that TS and rotation gonna beat it. That’s not gonna work if the turrets engi also have TS and good rotation.

Play it, make more people cry, and one day ANet gonna fix it. Maybe one day…

I think this Amulet is fair, and I’d love to see it in the game.
+798 Power
+569 Toughness
+284 Healing
+284 Vitality

Excelvior.8520:

Sunshine.5014:

Tips:

1. Count how many times you use Fire #4 in a match. If it’s less than 5 times, you’re doing it wrong.
2. Always slot LF and Arcane Shield
3. If you ever double dodge, you’re doing it wrong. When you’re under pressure, always use a defensive skill after you dodge before you dodge again.
4. If you cast Air #5 with the enemy in the middle of the circle, you’re doing it wrong. Use it like Earth #4, use the edge.
5. If you don’t know how to use LF well, then you can’t survive well either. Pop quiz: do you know how to teleport directly from the spawn path to inside the clock tower without climbing on any stair?
6. If you can’t time reflect for Rev Sword #2, then you definitely need more practice before you can succeed with a glass staff Ele. Every time you use reflect, it should be timed to reflect a dangerous skill. Like, the keys of switching to Earth and press 3 should be a muscle memory.
7. If you open combat or +1 in Fire attunement, you’re doing it wrong too.

thank you for sharing these.
1) kinda noob with the LF, any tips for more maps?
2) I am always attuned to Air to engage (cause overload), is there something better?

I tend to not share these tips for selfish reason (I don’t want ANet to nerf Ele xD). But since I don’t play often anyway, so I’ll spill it out today

1. The best attunement for +1 a fight is.. surprised: Water. If you +1 any fight, the common mistake is jump in with Air #5 or Fire #2 Fire #5. It’s 50% chance the case that your friend is losing the fight, and die before your damage/CC can even make any difference. Starting with Water gives you a lot of advantage while +1’ing the fight. First, select your teammate instead of the opponent. If they are low on health, immediately use Water #3. If the opponent is a condi spam user, you can follow up with Water #5. If your teammate is not very low on health, use Water #2 and Water #4 (then Water #3 if needed), then switch to Fire. When you’re in Fire, it depends on the location that you will place a Fire #2 or just skip to Fire #3 (small point = lavafont, out of point or running = Fire #3 for guaranteed hit). Then Fire #5 if needed. In summary, Water gives you the most versatile set of “replies” you can use when you do a +1
2. The best way to learn the LF spot is to make a thief, and go short bow #5 all the map. You will learn it slowly by watching good players too. I would say most of the time I survive because of a good LF. Let’s say I count that a Thief that used shadow step and stealth on me. I can easily teleport to the roof of the clock tower and survive just fine, while raining Fire #5 on the point.
3. People under use Fire #4 a lot. You gotta learn how to travel faster using it. Also, time it well right after the enemy teleport to you can have an amazing effect. A combo I tend to use a lot when I got chased by a Thief/Rev is Fire #4, Earth #4 in the middle of fire trail, then Earth #1. It’s almost a guaranteed weakness hit. At that point, I’d be waiting for the Rev to do Sword #2 and reflect it.

All the traits granting Auras should grant it at the start of the skill, not the end. For example, reviving an ally grant aura. It should grant at the start, allowing clutch/skillful play. Facing a ranger? Rez in Earth so you have reflect. Facing a warrior? Rez in Air and hopefully the shocking aura will buy you enough time for the rez.

The same with Overloads. It should grant aura at the start of the cast. All Aura should also stack.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

25 stacks might is simply a boon, which can be removed very easily.

it is just that people are lazy to do so.

introduce better ways to strip boons instead of asking for nerfs.

It’s much stronger than any other type of Rune, nothing even comes close to provide you access to a thousand more stats. What you are asking for is power creep, which we don’t want. Nerf it instead.

Anyone who claim to 1v2 using Ele, feel free to duel my Burn Guard and and my friend.

It’s a big nerf. Now Reaper can condi bomb the Ele right away with 5+ conditions. As a Reaper, I can easily put in 2000 burn tick, 2000 poison tick, chill and other stuffs. Most of the skills apply more than 1 conditions.

That doesnt even count the corrupt boons buff and Scepter auto attack converts boons.

Reaper will be a hard counter to Ele next patch.

P.S: and that doesn’t even count the removal of Celestial amulet. Ele is done for next patch, so stop the QQ lol

PierPiero.9142:

don’t warry cele ele will be OP …

Cele Amulet is gone in case you’re not aware.

Ele is so OP.

I got my hambow imba crit build to soloq and hammer an ele. He attuned to earth and I can’t crit! While I’m astounded by that imba-ness, the ele disappeared leaving me in shock. 5 seconds later he came back, so I was like Pin Down, and w t diamond skin. Then the Ele one shot me in 20 seconds with burning and Fire Grab. So imba! Much power! Many crits! Please nerf!!!

P.S: please nerf rtl and LF. Ele’s HP is too high, it can’t have more mobility, or else my hambow warrior can’t chase it around

What’s an Ele without boons? Ele has no worthy active defense beside boons. Or do they want Ele to rely on that 75s cd block?

Frenk.5917:

witcher.3197:

Currently the best tactic is to avoid any PvP interaction and fous on NPCs 24/7, by spawning, escorting and hunting skritt down. It’s basically Silverwastes with worse rewards.

So much this.

Spawn skritts.
Resupply.
Spawn more skritts.
Resupply.
Spawn more skritts.
Occasionally check for the Hero.
Resupply.
Spawn more skritts.

Enemy team defending? Waste of time. Too many skritts.

Every time I see this, I have to ask: do you use the treb in game? It kills the whole groups of npc in just a few hits.

Assassin O.9367:

I bet all the pros just frown when they read these petty forums about daily nerfs…. I wonder what the next class the community is going to whine about after Ele is finally nerfed back to the 2 year ago Ele

QFT.

Quick, roll a Reaper/Scrapper and farm the professional wins before ANet nerf it.

The thing I want to remind people that even the PvP esport players didn’t request this Aura visual change either. I don’t even know where ANet get the idea from.

Please don’t blame PvP players on this.

We have too many Aura related traits spread everywhere. They need to merge those traits and introduce new traits for Conjure/Glyph/Signet/Arcane.

Larynx.2453:

But nevermind that. The class mechanics of ele have not changed much since they were disgustingly overpowered. Why does all of this apply now, and not then? If the class mechanics are proven to work, why can’t ArenaNet just change the numbers?

I have talked about that in my post. Maybe you missed it? I quoted it again down here.

Sunshine.5014:

The reason why the bunker ele build with Signet of Restoration was so popular is because it optimizes for a low dps_downtime variable, and it offers the Ele more dps time with decent healing. Healing with a bunker D/D just mean swap to water and dodge, and occasionally press Water 5. You have much more time to dps (that’s why together with might stacks, they still have an okay dps).

You wonder what changed? Let me tell you:
- Signet of Restoration nerfed badly, and it only heal for half of the value in pvp now. This change means the bunker ele needs to switch into water much more often to survive. That also means the dps uptime was decreased.
- At that time, only Thief and Mesmer have the bursts that can instantly drop Ele to 20% HP. For other classes, Ele can stay out of Water a long time, and has high dps uptime. However, most of the other classes have been buffed significantly over the period, and they can deal insane damage. Now, basically any class can burst down an Ele if spec’ed into it. This reduces Bunker Ele into the state of having to spend too much time just to survive, and can’t deal damage well anymore.
- Ele can’t clean conditions well anymore. The nerf to Cleansing Fire and Water tree made Ele vulnerable to all the conditions spam from Necro/Engineers/Spirit Rangers. Beside Cleansing Fire no longer have stun break, Mist Form also got nerfed hard.
- Ele was annoying to a lot of people because they could run away from a battle. That is no longer true for most cases, since the nerf to Lightning Flash range and Ride the Lightning cooldown and Ele’s Air Aura (Swiftness duration halved). Lightning Flash also got the stun break removed.

So, in reply to your question: yes, Ele was nerfed hard, while other classes got a lot of buff
That’s the reason why all of this apply now, and not then.

Do you agree with that?

Hint, there is a treb.

Also, if your team let the opponents have a steady stream of DBs, they didn’t do it right. Your team basically lost the control of the map.

Hi, with the amount of visual noises added to the game (and more to come with PoF), we desperately need red outlines on targeted enemy

Like this:
https://www.diablowiki.net/images/2/2c/Red-target-outline5.png

Thoughts?

The nerf on Vigor on crit forces Ele to be even more reliant on Cantrips for Vigor generation.

They should revert the change for Renewing Stamina, and nerf Cantrips instead. Right now, they are pushing even more people to Cantrips to get back the Vigor loss.

Nerf Cantrips, buff Arcane/Glyph/Signet/Shout. Restore Renewing Stamina.

What ANet should do:

As soon as you left a game, either rage quit or disconnected, a count down for 1 minute is set. When you log into the game or change map, there will be a modal dialog saying:

“You have recently left a competitive PvP game! You have X seconds to rejoin the game to avoid getting dishonored. Dishonor buff will prevent you from playing PvP.”
Button: “Join game”, “Ignore and get Dishonored”

The count down will keep counting down while the user is not in a match.

Wow. Can’t believe no one says decap engi yet?

I wrote several constructive posts, for example:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/The-Root-Problem-or-How-to-Balance-PvP/first#post3633033

It never gets any dev response. Well, if you can get them to notice it, it would be great; however, at this point I wouldn’t get my hope high.

ANet engineering team is great. Developing a stable backend that can serve real time combat like GW2 is not a small feat. Nevertheless, the management and internal politics kill this game. Balance is a much more important issue for PvP than PvE, but they put the balance team inside the PvE team, and Tyler can only “talk” to the balance team. It’s pretty sad.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Just wanted to call some attention to this thread.

It is confusing for me to see this kind of mixed messaging. A ton of people agreed in that thread that there are too many moving parts in this game to balance it well enough. Now you guys are in here saying that removing jewels equates to dumbing the game down.

Can you guys do me a favor and try the game out after the features are in the game before assuming removing this is going to ruin everything?

TL;DR: customization range is different from number of customizations. People agreed in the thread that they wanted more customizations, with smaller customization range. What ANet gives them now is fewer number of customizations, with big customization range.

Hello Allie, I’m the OP of the thread you linked, and I want to reply to your question. But first, let me thank you for listening to players. I know a lot of us appreciate it.

Now, back to this thread, I’m actually confused why you’re confused. The devs seems to misread my post, so let me make it clear again:

I suggest you to reduce the customizable range. For example, an Amulet that gives 1700+ stats to something that gives less than 500 stats points. That will bring the bunker and berserker closer together, and still keep the customizable items that people love.

You keep the customizable range, and remove the customizable items, which is exactly the opposite of the suggestion in the post.

I think it’s my fault that I didn’t make it clear enough in my post? (Although I remember I wrote exactly that, reduce the stats points range). I hope this post make it more clear.

P.S: FWIW, I don’t like that we remove the jewels out of the amulets, since my main build right now has a different jewel slot (Soldier + Cleric).

Edit: added a TL;DR. I guess Allie and I, we misunderstood the definition of customization range, and it’s partly my fault.

I rather have a different Fire trait:

• Applying burning to the enemy will remove one boon. ICD 2s.

Or a Water trait:

• Applying chill to the enemy will convert one of their boons to condition. ICD 2s.

The water one is actually not that stronger than the fire one because we have fewer opportunity to chill an enemy.

It’s sad that this thread received less attention than the troll threads. Maybe we need more controversies in this thread? Alright:

Necro/Engi is too OP, especially post patch. We need to nerf them more by implementing this!

People love Stronghold, including me.

If you don’t like it, don’t queue it. Problem solved!. Just like no one forces a hater to play WvW or PvE.

Bring a Druid for rez. Case closed.

I also would love to know just a simple yay or nay on this. I have 2 threads in my sig, both with overwhelmingly support, but not a single yay/nay from the Dev.

Rune of Strength needs to be nerfed.

On Marauder, the Air Overload does less damage than a Mesmer Shatter burst. I have a hard time believing the theory crafting that you can Lighting Flash in and watch the opponents die. A warrior for sure will survive your Overload. But without Lightning Flash to get out, the Marauder Ele is already dead. Misform and Obsidian Flesh only delay the fate a few seconds.

Maybe we should post this in the Engi forums so we can get some dev to look at it

Mr Godlike.6098:

I predict more nerfs…sorry for being cynical and all

+1, Ele is still being used in PvE. It’s still top tier, and it will be nerfed.

The balance team doesn’t play PvP.

The PvP team will try to add an amulet to help Ele, but it turns out another class will make use of that amulet better, and we’re gonna be bad for another season. Usually it takes a year for them to fix a class.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Saiyan.1704:

Rotations is 10s – Pyromancer’s Training

Do you even know the meaning of elementalist skill rotation? You know that eles don’t just camp fire right? There are skills in other attunements that need to be used in order to be effective, frozen burst for example should be used in every rotation and is a 15s cd.

+1 it looks like he doesn’t even understand the basic Ele rotation, which everyone in the forums says faceroll easy :|

10s or 15s doesn’t matter much for PvP since the rotation is 15s anyway and no one camps fire. Nerfing that only nerf Glass staff PvE, which does camp fire.

The current elites are unviable in pvp. If I can just pick a utility slot for it, I’d be more happy. Hell, even a simple signet is also better.

JonPeters.5630:

Elementalist:

• Arcane VI – Renewing Stamina. Moved to Master tier.

Please swap Air II – Zephyr’s Focus and Arcane VI – Renewing Stamina instead.

Renewing Stamina depends on Crit, and is out of place in the Arcana line, while Zephyr’s Focus belongs to the Arcana line (although it’s nearly useless since only Meteor Shower counts as a channelling spell). Swap it, put Renewing Stamina in Adept tier for Air, and put Zephyr’s Focus in Master tier for Arcana, and maybe buff it a little bit.

Arcana has too many good traits, swap it to other line like Air will help builds diversity.

Exedore.6320:

OP’s argument is based on a fallacy.

Higher leagues take away pips for losing. You only have incentive to tank MMR at lower leagues which don’t have pip loss. In order to continue to progress, you need to continue to perform. In order to jump leagues, you need to perform much better.

Let’s say you tanked your rating in the low leagues. Once you start winning again, it will be disproportionate to what your rating predicts and your rating goes up. By the time you reach the higher leagues, your rating has increased to its proper value again.

If implemented correctly leagues will essentially be division based on rating.

At the start of a new division, you don’t have anything to lose.

You only lose pips or tier, but you can’t lose a division. So this is what people will do

1. play normally to get to a new division
2. as soon as you get into a new division, keep throwing matches to have an artificial low MMR, you don’t have anything to lose. No pips, no tier, and can’t lose a division.
3. when you’re comfortable, queue with a premade and enjoy your low MMR queue. You can have a winning streak that can carry you to the next division.
4. repeat step #2

If there is no benefit of having a higher MMR, people will purposely tank it. We need to have higher rewards for higher MMR.

I agree with most things you said. Want to add more:
11) stream on both YouTube gaming and Twitch.

Bugged queue. Nothing to see here.

Larynx.2453:

If what you’re saying is that eles need to spend so much effort being defensive that it hurts their offensive capabilities, then sure I can understand that and might agree with it. I think I was just misunderstanding your post when I made mine.

We’re in agreement. Thank you for your constructive post.

You also brought up a good point: are the problems Ele is facing a product of class mechanisms or a number problem?

I think right now it’s definitely numbers problem; however, there are also problems with class mechanisms that make it so hard to balance Ele. It’s too easy to misbalance Ele and make the class OP or severely underpowered. Gives it too much healing capability, and it’s unkillable. Gives it too little healing, and the class die instantly in team fight due to the lowest HP and Armor.

Right now, the biggest problem Ele is facing is the average damage output from other classes are very high. Anyone can deal more than 10k damage within seconds, and that’s devastating for Ele, with the base HP of 10.8k.

I think ANet should increase the base HP of Ele and reduce the animation cast time. That way ANet doesn’t need to give Ele too much healing capability, one of the reasons why the Bunker Ele was OP in the first place.

Browrain.7346:

Seems like a terrible thing to me. I wouldn’t want more than 1 thief.

Lol, gotta update your view then. Having 1+ Thieves doesn’t mean a loss anymore. No one can tank against 2 Thieves. You will be able to abuse the 3k range travel to +1 fights and down people instantly.

I welcome Thief and Necro in my team.

Swiftness won’t save Tornado.

Let’s make it have 5 skills:

1. damage enemies around. Cooldown 0.5s, damage around 1.25 times Lightning whip.
2. pull enemies into the tornado (knock down). Cooldown 5s.
3. push enemies away from the tornado (knock back). Cooldown 5s
4. blind enemies around. Cooldown 5s.
5. exit the Tornado form. Leave a mini tornado in place for 10s. The mini tornado will use the skills above, with a reduced AoE.

Tornado form should also have super speed during the duration.

TLDR: I played top 100 tpvp with an Ele. Ele is decent, not useless. However, if we want to win at all cost, we will not play an Ele. It’s not optimized for any job in this game mode.

I was in between NA rank 50-100 before I grew impatient and queue alone without waiting for my friends to be online (end up losing a bunch). My rank now is about 500 something.

• In mid level team queue, or solo queue, Ele can be great. You can kill a lot of people, back cap, tank, heal. I can even control cannon in Sky hammer. Ele is not useless, at least not that bad.
• However, in high level team queue, Ele is very team dependent. In high level team queues, there are specific roles to be filled, and Ele is not the optimized way to play it. I’m pretty sure my team would have done even better if I had played a different class.

At that level (top 100):

• Bunker: bunkering far/near point is pointless for Ele, since it’s not about who can kill faster, it’s about who can push the other person out of the point and decap it bit by bit. The fight can last minutes. Ele has very few accesses to stability/block, so you will have trouble staying on point to prevent a decap. On top of that d/d bunker ele play style jumps around a lot, and you may accidently go out of the point, giving the opponent one decap tick. However, d/d Ele is not useless as a bunker. With perma Vigor, you can survive pretty well; you just can’t hold point against a high level player who knows how to push/pull/fear. How about bunker mid? Proving mid bunker ele’s ineffectiveness is trivial, and is left as an exercise for the readers xD
• Team fighter: Ele is pretty good in teamfight. The key thing is to not get focused. If an Ele gets focused, their effectiveness drops by 50% since they have to worry about healing, and hardly do any damage during that time. There are only two reliable escape mechanisms: Lightning Flash, and FGS. It’s always on my bar, regardless of builds. Anything else, Mistform, RTL, etc, is just a delay to your imminent death. Does that mean those skills are useless? No. By delaying your death, you can sometimes kill your opponent back. Or you can also hope the opponent makes mistake, and let you run away with a 40/32 seconds cooldown RTL, which doesn’t happen a lot in high level games. Also, the point of the game is not to kill, but to stay on point. Staying on a point for 5 seconds worth more point than killing a person (without points buffs, of course).

Conclusion: Ele is pretty fun to play at mid/low level. It’s still fun to play in high level games; however, your friends may tell you to bring in another class in serious games. The next tournament may see some Ele, but not many.

What killed PvP was the balance. Everything else is just a manifestation of the unbalance.

The PvP team realize that, and they have been trying to balance the mode on their own, by manipulating the only things they can (sigils, amulets, runes).

The balance team led by Karl basically just give a giant finger to the PvP team and decide that PvE balance is more important than PvP balance.

That happens for 4 years, and here we are. I don’t have hope that they will put the balance team under PvP. So I don’t have hope in PvP either. Overwatch is where I spend my time and money now.

Chill right after water. Ele is actually very easy to counter. Mess with their attunement, and you reduce their effectiveness by 50%. As soon as an ele rotation is messed up, many of them go into panic mode and starts pressing any cool down they have.

Can we have a red post in this thread?

This would help GW2 a lot by making the game easier to understand. It will help bringing in more audience and gamers watching the stream!

Ele needs more innate defense on weapon skills and mechanic, while much lower defense provided by trait. Then people can leave water/arcana.

Why Thief/Mesmer can fully spec into zerker and still can be viable? Because they have innate defense mechanism like Stealth and teleport, built directly into their weapon/basic utilities without having to trait for it.

Saiyan.1704:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Saiyan.1704:

Rotations is 10s – Pyromancer’s Training

Do you even know the meaning of elementalist skill rotation? You know that eles don’t just camp fire right? There are skills in other attunements that need to be used in order to be effective, frozen burst for example should be used in every rotation and is a 15s cd.

Which part of my posts suggested people to camp in Fire Attunement??

Yes, blast finishers in fire fields gives you 3 stacks of might. It’s very easy to waste a might stack if it means you’ll trap 1 or more people in the ring. Especially if this was a tpvp skirmish scenario… enter Fire Attunement for a RoF potential 6 stack+ burn effect definitely outweighs that single effect you gain from rotations.

I’m not saying to skip rotations entirely… I Never said to stay and camp in fire attunement.

I question your honesty when you keep telling people about the mythical easy 6 burn stacks per RoF cast.

Ring of Fire apply no burning stack on cast, and only apply 3 stacks when you walk in and out of it. If the opponent gets 6 stacks, that’s a proof of a bad play. How do you even defend that bad play?

It’s legendary. People have to WvW to get PvE stuff too.

Saiyan.1704:

Played a game against Radioactive team.

They were all Sustain Bunker classes and went 100% defensive.
They grabbed every Heroes channel because there’s no counter for it.

In short… no one knew what to do. Lost 80-600

And in another thread, people said defending is too hard. They don’t realize that defending is a very viable strategy.