“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
’’OP:
“Hey, I want a real leveling experience. Note the keyword here, “real”. That doesn’t include a ‘manipulated’ one, or one that is serving a purpose. A safety-net is for high level players who want the reward of enjoying themselves at will in low-level regions.[/quote]"
“I’m a mesmer. I’m not worried about receiving damage”
“The game becomes extremely child-orientated when every zone is perfectly balanced for my demands and my comfort – which is completely separate from the actual reality of true MMO gaming, which is all about levelling up,
becoming strong and becoming the best. If you uproot these elements, you risk turning a game into a beautiful theme park resort.”
“The more responses of this kind I read, the more I am starting to feel that gw2 was built for the needy players in mind, who cannot handle the mechanics of a true MM:”
It goes on and on….
———————————-
Lets be frank, you constantly contradict yourself and you don’t seem to know what you want. Your not worried about damage and 80% of the zones in the game you can aoe destroy vast mobs with little effort – so basically god mode where you can aoe entire zones according to your desire, but this is not enough. Then think balanced is child-orientated?
historically you have complained about a whole myriad of things – this is needy, the game is what it is, it is not GW1, and it is very successful and enjoyed by many.
Their claws and weapons didn’t magically become less lethal.
They do if you become sufficiently durable. In Dragon Ball for example Goku becomes stronger by the season. If Super Saiyan Blue Goku went back to the first episode Raditz would be so far outclassed that he’d endanger himself by hitting him.
Levels in RPGs are the equivalent of DBZ power levels. Sure you don’t gain enough stats to become a moon buster but a base toughness of 5 may correlate to an average person whereas a base toughness of 20 means you’re bulletproof to regular bullets, but still as fragile as a wet paper bag compared to endgame level dragons.
But how to justify levels from a lore standpoint in Guild Wars 2? Maybe we can justify it as we’re back in time and each level represents a different place in our timeline whereas level 80 represents us in the present at our strongest. The polar bears of low level zones are no longer dangerous to our present selves, but they’re dangerous to our past level 10 selves and whenever we visit that map we’re effectively going back in time canonically.
It is the reason i stop reading dragonball combat right after the first super saiyan mode is out. The story us getting stupid, the number of the energy level is overdone. I love the 7 dragonball series where fighting tactics is important, instead of unlimited powerceep in the story.
The level scaling is perfectly fine, reason?
A traditional mmo a maxed lv player is limited to have meaningful combat in endgame zone only, while GW2 a maxed lv player, the whole game any map can have meaning combat. GW2 have some flaws, but this is a feature that make GW2 GREAT.
I can see your point, if you are someone who has big needs, but as a level 80 character you should be focusing on playing ‘meaningful’ content in zones for your area, not low-level zones. Why would anyone want to do that? The map is huge. How much more space do you need?
The arguments players have presented in this thread (most in repetition) just do not justify leaving out the traditional leveling/combat system which true players enjoy.
It’s all about… “I prefer this….”, “…but it’s better this way because..”… NO it isn’t!
Making every zone into a complete access-for-all monopoly is WRONG WRONG WRONG imo.
It also sets a very bad example for the up and coming novice gamer about how to tackle no-win situations in a gaming community.
What % is your map completion when reaching lv80?
None of my character reached 45% when they hit lv80. Are you telling me all my lv80 should only stationed in Orr, dungeon, fractial or raid upon hitting lv80? Maybe you are fine with the the higher lv the less contents to play with kind of style.
Well i am not, i enjoy revisiting some low level map, or some place i never visited. I enjoy party with low level travel around the world helping them on their jounery without killing their joys. I understand that i will be extremely boring if some high level one shot everything cross my path when i am leveling.
The scaling system provide lv80 the replayability to every single corner in Tyria, this is what matters to many of us. We all see that the Traditional MMO style is a classic yet outdated mechanics which seems to make the early maps into desert.
Classic, yes. Outdated, no
You can’t re-design a classic game mechanic in the hope to achieve a better game, when in reality the original design is what drew players in. What you’re asking for is a safety-net for your level 80.
You can’t? Anet did, and it works and generally accepted by the people that play it; the proof is simply the success of the game. And make no mistake, downscaling IS part of the original game design, intended to do exactly the things people have point out. You’re points don’t really work for you here.
You know who else is looking into this? Blizzard with a little game called WoW. The biggest MMO there was and currently is looking exactly into the thing you say can’t be done. If that doesn’t speak to how badly your position is out of line with the industry, nothing does. Better stick to more tired, old MMO’s if one shotting mobs in low level zones is how you want to be entertained.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Their claws and weapons didn’t magically become less lethal.
They do if you become sufficiently durable. In Dragon Ball for example Goku becomes stronger by the season. If Super Saiyan Blue Goku went back to the first episode Raditz would be so far outclassed that he’d endanger himself by hitting him.
Levels in RPGs are the equivalent of DBZ power levels. Sure you don’t gain enough stats to become a moon buster but a base toughness of 5 may correlate to an average person whereas a base toughness of 20 means you’re bulletproof to regular bullets, but still as fragile as a wet paper bag compared to endgame level dragons.
But how to justify levels from a lore standpoint in Guild Wars 2? Maybe we can justify it as we’re back in time and each level represents a different place in our timeline whereas level 80 represents us in the present at our strongest. The polar bears of low level zones are no longer dangerous to our present selves, but they’re dangerous to our past level 10 selves and whenever we visit that map we’re effectively going back in time canonically.
It is the reason i stop reading dragonball combat right after the first super saiyan mode is out. The story us getting stupid, the number of the energy level is overdone. I love the 7 dragonball series where fighting tactics is important, instead of unlimited powerceep in the story.
The level scaling is perfectly fine, reason?
A traditional mmo a maxed lv player is limited to have meaningful combat in endgame zone only, while GW2 a maxed lv player, the whole game any map can have meaning combat. GW2 have some flaws, but this is a feature that make GW2 GREAT.
I can see your point, if you are someone who has big needs, but as a level 80 character you should be focusing on playing ‘meaningful’ content in zones for your area, not low-level zones. Why would anyone want to do that? The map is huge. How much more space do you need?
The arguments players have presented in this thread (most in repetition) just do not justify leaving out the traditional leveling/combat system which true players enjoy.
It’s all about… “I prefer this….”, “…but it’s better this way because..”… NO it isn’t!
Making every zone into a complete access-for-all monopoly is WRONG WRONG WRONG imo.
It also sets a very bad example for the up and coming novice gamer about how to tackle no-win situations in a gaming community.
What % is your map completion when reaching lv80?
None of my character reached 45% when they hit lv80. Are you telling me all my lv80 should only stationed in Orr, dungeon, fractial or raid upon hitting lv80? Maybe you are fine with the the higher lv the less contents to play with kind of style.
Well i am not, i enjoy revisiting some low level map, or some place i never visited. I enjoy party with low level travel around the world helping them on their jounery without killing their joys. I understand that i will be extremely boring if some high level one shot everything cross my path when i am leveling.
The scaling system provide lv80 the replayability to every single corner in Tyria, this is what matters to many of us. We all see that the Traditional MMO style is a classic yet outdated mechanics which seems to make the early maps into desert.
Classic, yes. Outdated, no
You can’t re-design a classic game mechanic in the hope to achieve a better game, when in reality the original design is what drew players in. What you’re asking for is a safety-net for your level 80.
… sorry, but the classic leveling design that Anet rejected is NOT what ’Drew players in". What drew players into the genre in the first place was the ability to play a single game with countless other new and experienced players in a persistent world to explore through. And WTF are you rambling on about a “safety net” for? The only person in this thread asking for a ’safety net for their level 80" is the guy who thinks his level 80 should be invincible.
I have the best armour and stats at the moment, and i’m happy with everything. But I just sat back in horror as I watched a level 15 icebrood elemental in a low-level region remove half my health in a few seconds.
If they ever decide to make a gw3 I hope they get rid of that stupid scaling system, because it really makes the game look like child’s play.
Even if my health suddenly drops from 20k to 1.5k, I would expect a low level enemy to struggle against a level 80. My suspicion is that levels are actually meaningless in this game.
I’ve posted on this topic before, and I’m posting again because this is something that is still bugging me.
ADDENDUM: some of these mobs are actually killing me quicker than level 80 mobs.
You miss the whole point of GW2. Off you go now, generic MMO is that way.
Nothing to see here folks.Gw2 misses the point I am trying to put forward.
That’s not a point, though. It’s not even a double-eraser. It’s… hell, there are spheres that put out better points than you.
(edited by Sartharina.3542)
You can’t re-design a classic game mechanic in the hope to achieve a better game, when in reality the original design is what drew players in.
Except they have re-designed it, and they did so successfully. Might as well deal with that fact because it’s not going to change.
Wong. You haven’t presented any statistics?
Nor have you. Your point? On second thought, nah, there’s no need to answer that. I’ll just let you continue to play the complaint game. Carry on. 
(edited by RoseofGilead.8907)
The arguments players have presented in this thread (most in repetition) just do not justify leaving out the traditional leveling/combat system which true players enjoy.
It’s all about… “I prefer this….”, “…but it’s better this way because..”… NO it isn’t!
Making every zone into a complete access-for-all monopoly is WRONG WRONG WRONG
The topic of this discussion has been flushed out. There is no more to discuss on this topic as it has become a circular conversation. OP even admits that the discussion has become repetitive at this point, as indicated in this quote. Furthermore, OP has no intention of collaboration and comes off as abrasive to anyone offering counter points. Lastly OP offers no suggestions to offer constructive feedback on the game and leveling system. He just demands that it is changed without offering how it can be changed, while keeping the majority of the player base happy with this change.
I am flagging my post so a moderator sees it as I believe this thread should be shut down. Thanks!
(edited by Andraus.3874)
Let’s start crowdfunding project so ArenaNet will have chance to finish promised 2nd weapon legendary set! Let’s say they offer to participants something ingame for donations. Would you use your credit card to support this project?
Share your thoughts.
Uhmm.. maybe you have to learn something here.
A-Nets problem isn’t the funding.
They have a fundamental problem with understanding what Gw makes GW plus
they incredible shy away from anything contend .
They cut corners wherever they can instead of going a single extra mile.
That we are still in the stage of having 60% of the original map and no sign of the other continents after 3 years should tell you one thing or two.
Another huge flag is they scratch legendary weapon sets after a huge wave of cash flew in from expansion money.
And now we should create a crowd funding for a company that has proven over and over again that they have no understanding that people want entertainment and gimmicks or a 2nd job ???
Kudos for your try,
but this train is going nowhere
Considering the amount of time I have to spend to complete hot meta maps, and then dailies, and then dungeons/ fractals/ whatever, each single day, the rewards are actually worth it now and they finally feel like they are taking me somewhere. I mean, I don’t even have time to do all that except at weekends.
GW1: WHY CAN WE NOT JUMP?
Arenanet adds jumping to GW2, and attaches gameplay to it so it’s actually more useful than the /jump emote
GW2: WHAT DO YOU MEAN WE HAVE TO JUMP?
Just because there’s a reward at the end doesn’t make it required content. You can safely ignore content you don’t find fun in GW2 are never going to suffer a stat penalty for doing so. If you don’t like the content, then learn to live without the rewards from it. You don’t NEED them in a mechanical sense. You just WANT them.
This is not true.
There are several story missions/fractals and other numerous activities which require the technique of jumping around and walking on very thin floor spaces. I’ve done some of them myself, without having a choice.
Again, you don’t need the rewards from that content. You WANT those rewards. In terms of “needs” to finish a character, you can easily buy everything from the TP without jumping even once.
In this case you want content designed in a certain way adjusted so that its a bit easier for you personally. Those sections are minor inconveniences the same way fighting dredge as a p/d thief is inconvenient. Part of playing a thing designed for a wide audience is that, occasionally, things aren’t designed specifically to cater to our personal sets of likes and dislikes.
It’d be a different story if that core content had massive and challenging jumping sections on par with, say, the steam geyser JP. If you don’t like uncategorized fractal, don’t do it.
At the end of the day its about whether you think the reward for a task is worth undertaking the task. There are a lot of things in this game I don’t want to do, and thus it follows I’ve determined the rewards don’t make up for my dislike of that particular content.
I think you’re playing a different game, because we clearly don’t have the same experiences.
We have the exact same experiences, the difference is our lens on those experiences.
No, because you’re making statements which aren’t true to my experience.
Which ones?
About the puzzles being optional in all cases. That’s not true.
Where have you encountered a puzzle that you’re required to complete to progress your character? I can’t think of one.
You need to do a few light jumping sections to finish certain optional paths in the PS (if you pick certain story steps. you can finish a complete PS without doing any such sections) and a couple for map completion, but neither of these activites is required to reach the exact same mechanical power as every other character in the game.
What those sections prevent you from achieving is skins and titles.
Have taken a huge break from GW2 forums because of things, started reading this thread because I love JPs and I was like “wait a second, I don’t remember saying these things”, realize now this is a huge necro thread, holy smokes!
Cedric, I don’t think you realize you can skip specific fractals now—which means you never have to worry about the oh, so complicated small jumps from one platform to the next in the harpy fractal.
Why should a player have to skip an entire fractal experience just because we are forced to jump to get around?
Why do you want to do a fractal specifically designed around jumping in the first place?
Your logic is backwards. You don’t have to skip it. You can, however, choose to skip it because you find the content not to your liking. Lots of people hate pvp, so they never step foot in pvp. They don’t have to skip pvp, and the resulting pvp locked skins. They choose to skip pvp because their dislike of the content is stronger than their desire for the reward.
That’s a completely fair system that caters to everyone equally.
GW1: WHY CAN WE NOT JUMP?
Arenanet adds jumping to GW2, and attaches gameplay to it so it’s actually more useful than the /jump emote
GW2: WHAT DO YOU MEAN WE HAVE TO JUMP?
Just because there’s a reward at the end doesn’t make it required content. You can safely ignore content you don’t find fun in GW2 are never going to suffer a stat penalty for doing so. If you don’t like the content, then learn to live without the rewards from it. You don’t NEED them in a mechanical sense. You just WANT them.
This is not true.
There are several story missions/fractals and other numerous activities which require the technique of jumping around and walking on very thin floor spaces. I’ve done some of them myself, without having a choice.
Again, you don’t need the rewards from that content. You WANT those rewards. In terms of “needs” to finish a character, you can easily buy everything from the TP without jumping even once.
In this case you want content designed in a certain way adjusted so that its a bit easier for you personally. Those sections are minor inconveniences the same way fighting dredge as a p/d thief is inconvenient. Part of playing a thing designed for a wide audience is that, occasionally, things aren’t designed specifically to cater to our personal sets of likes and dislikes.
It’d be a different story if that core content had massive and challenging jumping sections on par with, say, the steam geyser JP. If you don’t like uncategorized fractal, don’t do it.
At the end of the day its about whether you think the reward for a task is worth undertaking the task. There are a lot of things in this game I don’t want to do, and thus it follows I’ve determined the rewards don’t make up for my dislike of that particular content.
Have taken a huge break from GW2 forums because of things, started reading this thread because I love JPs and I was like “wait a second, I don’t remember saying these things”, realize now this is a huge necro thread, holy smokes!
Cedric, I don’t think you realize you can skip specific fractals now—which means you never have to worry about the oh, so complicated small jumps from one platform to the next in the harpy fractal.
I think you definitely are not getting much fun from this game, Cedric.
The recent patch update (19th April) made a ton of changes that has pushed the game in the right direction.
Alas, all MMO’s are reported on in this way, especially when the new ‘behemoth’ is coming out (WildStar, Elder Scrolls Online, ArcheAge, Black Desert, Blade & Soul), all of which have failed to ‘kill’ GW2 as many people like rave on about coming up to a MMO.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086
Honestly it should be made, because there are dozens of stats which don’t have ascended trinket variants – even long before HoT, hell even when the first set of trinkets were released before new stats were made.
With the exception of raid trinkets, all ascended trinkets count as unique gear which basically means you cannot equip two of the same kind. Which in turn means that if you want two rings or accessories with the same stats, you must have one that is offensive and one that is defensive for infusion slots – and what if you want two defensive or two offensive? Only current option is to do raids and pray to rngesus or farm it a lot.
There is absolutely nothing in a raid you need to have in order to complete anything in this game. It all leads to cosmetic and vanity items to show off to people.
As others have suggested:
Try to go with a group of guild members and/or friends.
Advertise your own party in LFG to get your own group going. Make sure the message says you’ll take anybody.
I’ve never set foot in a raid or ever tried to join a group for one. Though, on occasion someone in my guild offers to take any members. It’s just not something I’m interested in at this time.
I don’t know about all this “elitism” stuff people claim is going on. It’s possible some players are running into it while others never see it.
I did a bunch of scale 1-20 fractals yesterday with pug groups from the LFG tool and never had a problem. Never had a problem in the past pugging fractals. Even when I mess up and get myself killed nobody complains. They pick me and we go on our way to the next area.
Keep in mind that raids are something players have asked for for a long time. They got what they wanted. There are going to be some players who have strict requirements and some players who take anybody. You can find people to go with if you try hard enough. Complaining on the forums isn’t going to get any results, and IMO, makes you look kinda entitled because things aren’t going the way you want them to.
The more responses of this kind I read, the more I am starting to feel that gw2 was built for the needy players in mind, who cannot handle the mechanics of a true MMO.
The more responses of this kind I read, the more I am convinced you’re just a troll. Which you are. No point in denying it.
Meanwhile I get to log into GW2, go to a low level area with my friend who just joined, and play with her without having to make an entirely new character to level with her. I’ve been having a blast the last few days fighting the Toxic Alliance and Foefire Ghosts all across Tyria with her, and never once did I get bored because the content was too trivial for me.
So regardless of what you say or what you believe constitutes a “true” MMO, I still win. You could win too. Just go to one of the MMOs that holds your hand with arbitrary numbers the way you like.
The game becomes extremely child-orientated when every zone is perfectly balanced for my demands and my comfort – which is completely separate from the actual reality of true MMO gaming, which is all about levelling up, becoming strong and becoming the best. If you uproot these elements, you risk turning a game into a beautiful theme park resort.
so you’re comfortable when you’re getting 2shot by trivial mobs even considering level scaling? ok
I’m a mesmer. I’m not worried about receiving damage.
Then, I’m truly confused by your OP. I thought the whole premise of the thread was lamenting about how much damage your ‘Mesmer’ took.
In my humble opinion, GW2 scaling is about perfect. At level 80, I want and expect to have a easier time in low level areas. But I don’t want it so easy that I have no chance of dying.
Why this person is having trouble at level 80 and fully upgraded gear, is beyond me.
I’m a terrible player. My reflexes are so bad, I do not dodge ( by time I realize I need to its too late). My fingers are so uncoordinated, I not only use the mouse for movement, I use the mouse cursor for selecting my skills.
Having said all that, I do just fine. There is almost nothing I can’t do in regular PVE. Certainly a few icebrood elementals won’t slow me down.
On the off chance you ran into that mob near where the Maw meta event starts…..well that could explain it. Few people could take on that group solo.
Scaling keeps low level maps relevant. Having gone back to Lotro recently only to find 90% of the game irrelevant, it just feels wasted.
It’s a huge and outstanding feature of the game and I’m extremely happy we have it.
I think the opposite: I find it does more harm than good to my gaming experience.
Then it is likely this is not an MMO that will appeal to you long term, since it is vastly enhancing and enriching hundreds of thousands of players. I’ve played many MMO’s for 12 years. They all have their own individual selling points, but no MMO should be following a set rule or definition. Anet designed their game to break pre-conceived boundaries because that’s what video games should do.
Does GW2 work with it’s scaling system? Unfailingly. It’s by far and away one of the biggest draws to this game and it will never be something that will change. I make few guarantees about a games future, this however is one of them. GW2 would fall apart without it, since it cannot keep zones and bosses and events and a living world relevant without it.
If you don;t like it, that is fine. If you don’t think it should exist, that’s fine. Will it exist? Always, so the question is not whether they should change it, but whether you are willing to adapt to it.
It’s the same argument people have used to defend D&D rping versus countless other fantasy rpgs. Despite the opposing styles between say D&D and Savage Worlds tabletop rping, they are both “true rpgs” to use your vernacular. The same is true of GW2 vs Everquest. Both are “true” MMO’s, they just approach it in different ways.
And you know what? That’s actually a good thing.
I have the best armour and stats at the moment, and i’m happy with everything. But I just sat back in horror as I watched a level 15 icebrood elemental in a low-level region remove half my health in a few seconds.
If they ever decide to make a gw3 I hope they get rid of that stupid scaling system, because it really makes the game look like child’s play.
Even if my health suddenly drops from 20k to 1.5k, I would expect a low level enemy to struggle against a level 80. My suspicion is that levels are actually meaningless in this game.
I’ve posted on this topic before, and I’m posting again because this is something that is still bugging me.
Here the question.
I am puzzled, why is it child’s play when you are annoyed about not able to one-hit kill a supposedly lower level monster. Isn’t it because you feel the need to be godlike? If that is the case, you should try korean mmorpg. Of course, please do not complain about grinding and pvpish environment because power come with a price. Otherwise, you still have single player game, you can use cheat code.
I love complaining
Thanks for confirming it as a self-entitled demand. I guess we can close the thread.
As a great Namekian once said.
Why. Didn’t. You. DOOOOOOODGE?!
I shouldn’t have to.
Actually you definitely should have to. Do you know what happens to the mighty, powerful barbarian who has won a thousand battles if a small child with a knife stabs him and he actively chooses not to avoid it?
He dies.
I like a bit of realism in my games, and this system greatly encourages that and allows me to further immerse myself in the world. Being able to stand perfectly still, naked, and punch out an entire army of heavily armed thugs with swords breaks that immersion for me. Just because I’ve progressed beyond a zone doesn’t mean I couldn’t be in any danger if I return. These are fighters and monsters we’re dealing with. Their claws and weapons didn’t magically become less lethal.
And I still feel a strong sense of progression. With my better gear it is a LOT easier for me to plow through the old content than it was when I was of the appropriate level. I am still much stronger. I hit harder, can take more punishment, and have a huge array of skills and a fully functioning trait layout that all go toward making my character more powerful. And on top of all that I am a much better player than I was back then, so mechanics that once felt difficult or even unfair are now a casual cakewalk for me to dance around and defeat.
But for all my character’s improved stats, superior versatility in skills, and fully functioning build I can’t completely zone out and win a fight. The enemies still demand my attention. If I make a crucial mistake I can still lose. But playing to the best of my ability, or really even half that, there is nothing in the old world zones short of world bosses that I can’t take down.
GW2 tries too hard to please all players’ needs, at once, while fluffing the true MMO mechanism.
I’m curious about what you mean by “true MMO mechanism”.
Judging by your other posts, you don’t seem to know what you’re talking about and, you’re approaching the game with the wrong attitude.
While GW2 is possibly the easiest game to pick-up i’ve played in years, i understand it may not be the case for everyone, although all it takes is the ability to read and follow the always present map indicator.
The player is literaly handheld from the beginning throughout the leveling process, except of course one is required to at least try to understand how character attributes and gear work, and figure out how to optimize the profession/build.
Like in any other RPG ever created.
I’m honestly confused as to how you’d think it could be made any easier: by cutting the learning process as a whole? What’s the point of playing a game in the first place then?
since you exit the tutorial you are being hit with signs all over the place. There are tooltips that pop up regarding some parts of your specializations/trailines and skill points and hero challenges. You are also standing next to a scout npc that opens your map, and draws circles to nearby renown hearts that are close to your level…
How much handholding do you want?
As for runes/sigils/jewels i do believe they all have “armor upgrade, weapon upgrade” ect on them no?
Surely, you have picked up some pointers in the 4 months you’ve been playing. You have maxed out gear and are L80, according to one of your other threads on this page.
Maybe, you might consider leveling another character and studying the level-up information provided, once again.
Good luck.
I think a lot of us use the /wiki command in game to get quick accurate game info if we aren’t in a guild/group/online chat or have a way to ask. Welcome and have fun!
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