Guild Wars 2

Nope, all these people saying it was the right choice are here because they complained enough and now are getting their way. Most people who were happy with it probably didn’t bother defending Anet on the forums against this “I WANT IT NOW” attack. Anet should have stood their ground. I think they should actually go the other way because I and many others were able to max it in 2 days which isn’t long enough.

Heart of Thorns is getting nerfed already? It was so nice having long term goals in the game, please don’t give in with absolutely everything. The elite specs were fine the way they were…

BrotherBelial.3094:

This is a good start, not just get rid of the masteries gating the story, and we can all be happy.

In the end, I think some level of mastery story-gating is necessary so that they can have us use masteries during story missions (especially gliding). They’re removing the worst one, at least.

I was fine with 400. I’m fine with 250. Whatever it is I’ll get to when I get to.

Although I think 278 would have been perfect. People would be so confused about the unusual number that they’d forget to complain for a while.

So I guess you are saying you are an immature player. Fair enough.
The point was never that you get your elite specialization immediately. It’s something you progress towards, and get new skills as you explore. This is a game. You are not supposed to automatically win. It is supposed to be a challenge.
But whatever. Everyone is used to participation trophies these days, so I guess everything should be made super easy so no one cries about having to do something hard to complete their character.

Majic.4801:

Nick.9572:

Would it make me sound old if I started complaining about kids these days always expecting immediate gratification?

Old? No. Missing the point? Definitely.

Mature players can disagree about game systems without insulting one another, while immature players tend to struggle with the concept. Whatever your views on this particular issue may be, you are better served by focusing on them, and leaving your misconceptions about other players at the door.

Many, many players of all ages have expressed their opinions about Hero Points, Hero Challenges and Elite Specializations, and every player who has done so, whatever their views may be, is doing the right thing by sharing them with ArenaNet.

Unfortunately, some players seem to care less about the game itself than attacking others for having different opinions. Such insularity is toxic to an otherwise exceptional community and something we should all strive to eliminate.

This is something “old timers” tend to learn sooner or later.

Here’s hoping it’s “sooner” for as many of us as possible.

Lynce.9560:

Posted this on the feedback post, but might as well repeat here:

250 points is still a bit much if you consider alts, manageable for 1-2 characters, more than that and is still too daunting. If you don’t want to lower it to a decent cost (100-150 since there’s nothing elite about them), please increase the drops of the “proof of heroics” item in WvW.

Something tells me 100-150 still won’t be decent enough for you. They considered alts in the current reduction, anything lower would just result in people chewing through new content in a week and complaining about not having anything to do within 2 weeks after launch.

So instead of putting in the effort to earn awesome things, all you gotta do is QQ to the devs?

What’s next, free twilights for everyone?

What’s wrong with you, Anet?

250 is too low. I have 9 characters (including the revenant I created with the HoT launch).
At 250 I can have all but the rev fully done within a day which is far too easy.

Would it make me sound old if I started complaining about kids these days always expecting immediate gratification?

Vocal minority who want it harder???

Totally untrue. And here’s why:

People are far, far more likely to post when they’re frustrated or angry than if they’re bored or feeling lackluster.

- For each person who posts screaming that things are too hard there are only ten more who don’t make the effort to post.

- But for each person who posts asking for things to be more complex and challenging there are hundreds who just shrugged their shoulders and wandered off to do something else because they were bored.

- For every complaint you hear about there are ten more you don’t.
- For every customer who says your performance was “good” there are a thousand more who don’t say it.
- For every person who takes the time to tell you you’re doing great there are about fifty more who are silent, but hopefully will tip!

I’d say 99 of 100 people who want more content that requires people to work together do NOT say anything. They just get bored with running around solo and turn the game off.

About half of the people who think things are too hard come to the forums and complain.

literally the entire rest of the game caters to casual players. I also find it funny that you compare it to Orr to prove your point then say “and we all know how that ended up”. you even give examples as to why that was a bad idea. they nerfed it to cater to “casual” players and now the only time people go there is for a mindless farm or once ever for map completion. people don’t go there because it’s engaging content. if they nerf the HoT maps, they’ll likely end up the same.

gw2 has an amazing combat system and there are so few places where you can actually experience it fully (in pve) like you can in HoT. Don’t ask them to take this away from people who do “play for the challenge,” as DoctorDing says bc, guess what, those people would like to enjoy this game too.

off-topic, but one thing I do agree w/ that ding said tho is making hard mode versions of maps. bc then we could theoretically have one or a few megaservers running a “casual-friendly” version of the map and one or few running more challenging versions. would make old content more interesting to play (queensdale tuned for level 80 characters with all utilities/traits unlocked? sounds too to me haha) very unlikely to happen though as it’d probably be a huge undertaking on arenanet’s part with not much payoff for them I think.

DoctorDing.5890:

I was slightly alarmed to see the recent ANet HP announcement say that they are very happy with the difficulty level of HoT. I can’t help but think they have lost touch with their core audience. I’ve recently left another game where the devs listened to the vocal minority who said they wanted it harder. It stopped being fun for me, and for others, so that game now has fewer players and might struggle to survive.

Casual players are the bread and butter of these games which means providing a huge quantity of relatively easy content. I don’t think the expansion can be a commercial success if it only targets hardcore players so, yes, I think it will get nerfed sooner or later. Open world stuff should not be a struggle for normal players with average kit. But it’s hard to ask those players what they want because most of them will never come to the forum.

Those HoT maps are big. There is plenty of room to accommodate players of all skill levels. Maybe Anet need to learn from GW1 and have a hard mode version of each map for those who are “in it to win it” rather than ramping up the difficulty in the normal maps.

Put simply: some players don’t play for the challenge.

If I can watch t.v. , and play a game at the same time there’s something wrong with the challenge, but maybe that’s just me. If you want less challenge tyria has about 25 maps already for ya.

Chris Cleary.8017:

How to Train Your Dragon was an amazing movie!

Flying mounts confirmed!

Rytlock is ok. Logan….man I wanted to like him but he’s just sort of blah. And it was a pretty lame plot device for him to suddenly run off to save Jenna. It doesn’t make him seem very heroic.

Wish they would kill off some of the other characters though….

I’m rather sad that they’ve reduced it already. It’s only a few days into the expansion. A thread with a lot of responses in it does not mean it’s a majority by any stretch. Those that weren’t busy complaining on the forums were actually playing the game and have our elite specialization maxed out already (I was well over halfway before HoT).

I am an altaholic however, so this change is nice for my other classes, but I accepted the grind well beforehand and I was fine with it.

I’m disappointed Arenanet. I’m glad that you’re responding to feedback, but giving in so soon into your expansion was probably not the best idea. We’ll see how it turns out. And obviously I have faith in you. I’m still here.

You’re starting to act like Blizzard…please don’t become them. I miss the old ‘get good’ attitude you guys had at one point. Turn back, act like the gaming company I and the majority of your community have come to respect and love.

Runiir.6425:

As has been said multiple times, don’t call it elite. It is not “elite”. Elite is a title given to an alpha class, as in…if you are a reaper you will slaughter every single individual in PvP that isn’t also an elite of some kind without even trying. THAT is elite. This is nothing more than another option, that frankly shouldn’t cost a single HP more than any other spec line.

It’s not elite because it makes you OP. It’s elite because of the level of what it grants you compared to core specs. It’s elite because you would be OP if you could take two of them at the same time.

It’s an “elite specialization” not a “specialization that makes you elite”

I don’t understand why most of you guys feel like you deserve to get your elite spec right away? I feel rewarded for going out in the game and finally unlock those traits and I believe that making them easier to get would ruin the experience.

Yes I understand that for your alts it’s a tedious task. I understand that you may not like the other content like wvw or pvp and don’t want to have to go there in order to get you specializations. But it doesn’t mean that it should be easier to get because YOU do not like having to work your way to it.

Seera.5916:

captaincrash.6528:

Kaykero.7251:

1) But I and many people paid precisely to do that.
2) But I paid real money for it.
3) But I want to complete the maps with the elite spec. What should I do once I have it fully unlocked? Stand around and not caring for anything because I already did it?
4) The new content is designed to be harder than the core game, so switching a barely useful traitline with one that is not only fully leveled but also complementing my current build and available skills is nonsense. Of course people can technically use them, but you could also technically walk to work instead of drinving your car.
5) That point I do not even care about.

It is a problem: people want to play the new classes, but instead of being able to do that and concentrate on the fun aspects of the game (story, new maps, events) they are forced to rush through, ruining every bit of exploration and immersion. I never expected to have my elite spec unlocked instantly, but through some kind of story or sidequest near the beginning of the new content. Needing 400 hero points, with 60 of them only just unlocking the ability to use a new weapon, is just to kitten much for something I and many other people paid 50 bucks to play as.

When you buy a Zelda game do you cry to Nintendo that you can’t go onto and complete the last dungeon, have all equipment, at the start of the game? Prerelease they marketed progression in this expansion to that of Zelda and Metroid, you knew what you were getting into.

Did you miss this line in your reading:

Kaykero.7251:

I never expected to have my elite spec unlocked instantly, but through some kind of story or sidequest near the beginning of the new content.

Stop skimming posts and making assumptions that fit your argument.

What? If you don’t want things used in an argument against you, don’t say them.

Kaykero.7251:

1) But I and many people paid precisely to do that.
2) But I paid real money for it.
3) But I want to complete the maps with the elite spec. What should I do once I have it fully unlocked? Stand around and not caring for anything because I already did it?
4) The new content is designed to be harder than the core game, so switching a barely useful traitline with one that is not only fully leveled but also complementing my current build and available skills is nonsense. Of course people can technically use them, but you could also technically walk to work instead of drinving your car.
5) That point I do not even care about.

It is a problem: people want to play the new classes, but instead of being able to do that and concentrate on the fun aspects of the game (story, new maps, events) they are forced to rush through, ruining every bit of exploration and immersion. I never expected to have my elite spec unlocked instantly, but through some kind of story or sidequest near the beginning of the new content. Needing 400 hero points, with 60 of them only just unlocking the ability to use a new weapon, is just to kitten much for something I and many other people paid 50 bucks to play as.

When you buy a Zelda game do you cry to Nintendo that you can’t go onto and complete the last dungeon, have all equipment, at the start of the game? Prerelease they marketed progression in this expansion to that of Zelda and Metroid, you knew what you were getting into.

Also compare it to GW2’s predecessor. In the first Guild Wars, it took A LOT of effort or wealth to unlock all of your skills by the time EoTN was released. How is the decision to make elite specs time consuming to obtain any different of a move?

I have a full time job and will soon be a dad. I have no time to waste regarding the little free time enjoyment I can muster.

My review will be as detailed as I can be right now:

I like it.

At first I was a little disappointed. But then….well, I’m not gonna have my Herald for some time now.
But you know what? I just finished my Mawdrey after months and months of small steps. It felt glorious. To demand that we intantly get all the shinies is to devaluate them.
Do you cry in other MMOs to be max level instantly because “thats the way you want to play”?
Or get all the raid gear because you want to play it that way?

You know what? I don’t care that people got it faster and more easily/carelessly, but I earned that Mawdrey. And I will earn that Herald tree. GW2s most valued virtue has always been “enjoy the ride, the way is the goal”
They keep on giving us that.

Try earning things instead of crying for participation medals.

Iozeph.5617:

Here’s feedback. Someone in another thread mentioned that HoT had a metacritic rating of 4.3.

After that the votes began to rapid swing upward so it’s safe to assume that all the contrarians read that, then got together and said, ’Let’s go over to metacritic and vote 10.0 across the board. Just to show em’.’

Yeah, totally safe to assume that.

MoonRaiden.7423:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

If Legend of Zelda came out tomorrow, the usual forum dwellers would go nuts about how they need to “grind” to get exp, new swords/shields, new potions etc…

If pokemon red&blue came out tomorrow, they would cry about not being given charizard/venusar and blastoise straight away, instead they are stuch with their inferior previous evolutions and they need to “grind” 30something levels to get there…

If super-mario came out tomorrow they would cry about why the princess is ALWAYS in another castle and they need to “grind” 50 different levels to finally meet her for like 5 seconds ’till the credits…

Hooray for this generation…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrwtWAGGGB4

Thanks for proving my point!

Also, just a reminder that everything in an MMO is a subject to change. Anet maybe heard the complains of ALL the players during those 3 years, and chose to address them the best way they see fit. Just because you bought the core GW2 3 years ago, it didn’t mean you will be playing it until the end of times with no change. People also bought Burning Crusade and years later they ended up playing with pandas…

MoonRaiden.7423:

Straylight.7529:

Pixelninja.6971:

I bet half off the 10 stars reviews on Metscritic are written by Anet employees.
Yesterday the score was around 5 with almost 1 to 1 positive and negative reviews.

This tells us that the better, well-thought out reviews from people who took their time to test the game tend towards giving it a better score. Most of the 0-scores HoT received on Metacritic were given within the first 72 hours after launch.

I’ll be honest, your statement makes no sense, and is very bias. Those who took their time to test the game will realized how bad the optimization, experience gain, and how badly gated it is. Hell, I discovered all 4 of the new maps, and is unable to explore the whole area because I am sitting behind mastery walls.

Or they discovered an enjoyable gating system (because they’re not part of the “GIVE ME MY SHINY NOW!!” crowd) and decided to give it a good review.
Could it be that – wait for it ….. – people give it a good review before they like it? Oh god I hope that thought didn’t blow your mind.

If Legend of Zelda came out tomorrow, the usual forum dwellers would go nuts about how they need to “grind” to get exp, new swords/shields, new potions etc…

If pokemon red&blue came out tomorrow, they would cry about not being given charizard/venusar and blastoise straight away, instead they are stuch with their inferior previous evolutions and they need to “grind” 30something levels to get there…

If super-mario came out tomorrow they would cry about why the princess is ALWAYS in another castle and they need to “grind” 50 different levels to finally meet her for like 5 seconds ’till the credits…

Hooray for this generation…

Straylight.7529:

Pixelninja.6971:

I bet half off the 10 stars reviews on Metscritic are written by Anet employees.
Yesterday the score was around 5 with almost 1 to 1 positive and negative reviews.

This tells us that the better, well-thought out reviews from people who took their time to test the game tend towards giving it a better score. Most of the 0-scores HoT received on Metacritic were given within the first 72 hours after launch.

And dont forget about the thread on reddit asking people to give it bad reviews.

Now they’re complaining we have possitive reviews, oh the irony.

MoonRaiden.7423:

Dahkeus.8243:

So…what are you getting at? Do you think that people don’t actually enjoy the game in a way that it doesn’t feel like a grind? Cuz I fit in that camp. Yea, I wish I could play with all the elite stuff at the start, but I’m really enjoying the journey to unlocking everything.

And that’s why it doesn’t feel like a grind. I’m not just fixating on what I don’t have. I’m checking out all the new events, exploring all the new content, and just generally paying attention to what’s out there and available right now.

If you think the game is a grind, then either you have the wrong mindset for an MMO or maybe you just really are better off with a different game for some reason, but the GW2 content is really high quality and shouldn’t be a grind for people that like games like this.

What is your take on the events/exp/gated rewards then?
Nobody has ever answer that question, instead they keep on pointing to exploration and some other vague kitten. Please answer my question.

“events/exp/gated rewards”? Can you clarify on what exactly you’re asking about?

edit Ohh, you mean about how elites are gated behind hero points and how some of those are gated behind masteries?

I already responded to that, but as I said, I like it.

The idea of having to get Y ability before you can get to X area is nothing new and what you need to do to unlock anything is far from grindy since there’s so much content to do. The new areas are huge and there’s plenty of new events to join in that keep things interesting until you can get to those areas you couldn’t reach before.

I think that elites probably should have had a lower requirement to become fully unlocked, but I love that masteries take time.

There’s no need to do anything repetitive (which is the only situation where I think the word ‘grind’ would occur). Also, feel free to check out the latest WoodenPotatoes video on youtube as an example of this. There’s events on there that the majority of the players probably haven’t even experienced yet.

So…what are you getting at? Do you think that people don’t actually enjoy the game in a way that it doesn’t feel like a grind? Cuz I fit in that camp. Yea, I wish I could play with all the elite stuff at the start, but I’m really enjoying the journey to unlocking everything.

And that’s why it doesn’t feel like a grind. I’m not just fixating on what I don’t have. I’m checking out all the new events, exploring all the new content, and just generally paying attention to what’s out there and available right now.

If you think the game is a grind, then either you have the wrong mindset for an MMO or maybe you just really are better off with a different game for some reason, but the GW2 content is really high quality and shouldn’t be a grind for people that like games like this.