Guild Wars 2

• The new map reward system will incentivise players into old maps for guaranteed access to harder to get mats (lodestones, eyes etc).
• Tyria Masteries (Fractal, for example).
• 1st Gen precursor and crafting.
• Fractals
• Dungeons
• Guild Missions
• Holiday events

As for the dungeon nerf, my understanding is that the rewards were being spread out between dungeons, fractals and the new content, as opposed to just raising them rewards in order ro prevent too much inflation.

Kronos.2560:

You forgot to add along side with making hero points in new area 10 per, instead of 1. Dungeons are getting gold reward nerfed to incentivize new content also!

Basically they are worried the new content sucks so they are forcing us to play it. At least that is my take on it. (otherwise why would you do soo much to force us to play there?)

They’re not forcing you and you’re making the mistake assuming that the only reason they could be making those changes is to get more people to play the expansion areas. There are more possible reasons than just that.

I don’t see where the old content is obsolete. You won’t find low tier materials in the new zones (and they are still needed to craft ascended) and Orr will still be a good place to farm T6. Hero point are still good to boost a new toon character progression, and since people will be able to craft the precursor of their choice, map completion will still be a thing for the Legendary set1 crafting. Those who have unused HP on their toon (like me) have a little boost in the Espec progression in HoT.
Honestly, having played other MMOs I think this game’s expansion is way better at not deleting all your progression. My gear is still valid, money is expected to not be devaluated and all materials already in my bank will have the same use in the next months…. so no the old content is not becoming obsolete.

Nothing has changed about the hero challenges before or after the expansion. Once you reach level 80, before the expansion, you have enough points to unlock all traits and abilities. They have no purpose other than for map/world completion. With the expansion, they have an additional purpose for the elite specializations where there also happens to be an additional source in HoT. The old Tyria hero points are still needed to craft the original legendary weapons.

This is almost like saying Anet made them obsolete when they introduced champ farming for skill point scrolls. Except nobody made this complaint back then.

Or it will encourage more people who bought the base game to buy the expansion because it is easier. Frankly there’ll be plenty of incentive to go back to old areas anyway.

If you have map completion you should be able to access it on release. The point you’re missing is that “access” and is not the same as completing it.

sharkswithlazers.7632:

I hear your argument, but I don’t think grinding hero points “skips” content. That’s actually precisely what I want to avoid. I want to enjoy the Elite spec I’ve been hyped about for a year while enjoying the story and new maps etc. I put time in to achieve just that goal. Let’s face it, finding 20 hero challenges won’t take long and if I didn’t have to do that, I wouldn’t be “skipping” content.

That said, I realize I was hasty with the Gift of Mastery. I also realize that I should play the xpac to reap xpac rewards. It’s just I could swear I’ve read somewhere, (I’ll look it up when I’m not so tired) that people with map completion should have access to their elite specs from the get-go. I realize this was too early and that plans change. No biggie. I still am frustrated that I put in so much time because I wanted to have the aforementioned instant access to the elite specs just to find out that I only finished half of what I need in the most inefficient way possible.

We will. I highly doubt you have to get all 400 hero points before you start spending the points on the elite spec. They just won’t have all traits or skills yet.

You made hasty preparations based on early release, vague, non-finalized information.

Honestly, there really wasn’t much in the way of “preparation” that needed to be done for Heart of Thorns. It’s mostly busy-making.
You basically made up work for yourself to do, spent time doing that work, and then were disappointed that the work didn’t pay off as much as you wanted it to.

For example, “making 2 legendaries” has nothing to do with preparing for Heart of Thorns. And preparing mats for the new legendaries before we even knew what they were, let alone what they’ll be made of, is risky no matter how you look at it.

And the hero point situation was handled fairly appropriately. The priority should be on systems that will have you actually play the xpac, not cater to people who “prepared” prior to it’s release so that they can skip the xpac’s content. You aren’t being punished for preparing, you’re just not being explicitly rewarded for it. Which sounds right to me.

My advice would be to be careful of hypetrains, make informed decisions, and keep in mind that things which are in-development are very much subject to change.

I get where you’re coming from. There’s nothing wrong with being excited for the new content, and it’s natural to look for things to do while you wait. I just don’t think your expectation on how the developers should handle it are warranted.
I do however admit that not knowing the cost of elite specs for so long left us in a bit of an awkward situation.

Sirendor.1394:

GrapeGatsby.6937:

I don’t get these types of post aren’t all MMORPGs inherently built so that the players will grind for something? If there was no grind and everything was given to players, what exactly would you do in this type of game for end game content aside from PvP? Also what do you define as a “satisfying feeling of achievement”?

No… there’s games where players are allowed to PLAY the content they like without having to grind x then craft y etc. to then finally do the things they like. Sadly those games are rare because they’re not as lucrative as a massive grindmill that keeps players working their kitten off.

Yep. They’re rare because people don’t stick with them. They play for a while, get their stuff early then go to the forums where they complain about nothing to do and leave.

So that leaves games with grind. Don’t blame the game for giving people what they really want, not what they say they want. Devs see what holds people year after year versus what loses people quickly and they know what to put in their game.

Ohoni.6057:

And? Does that mean that players who play Fractals will also play Raids?

Definitely. 90% at minimum.

There are a lot of players who are still doing dungeon runs and not running fractals at all. There are other players who only run fractals and not dungeons. There are players who run only specific dungeons and ignore the others completely. There are also those who only run lower level fractals and never reached any level above 30.

It’s like saying that if someone likes roaming in WvW they will also like following big blobs around, like saying if someone likes Deathmatch, they will also like Stronghold in PVP, or like saying someone who likes running random jumping puzzles will enjoy Not So Secret, or someone who likes infantile mode in SAB will also enjoy Tribulation Mode. Or someone who likes the 1vs1 battles in the Gauntlet will find Liadri enjoyable, or if you like killing the Claw of Jormag, you will also like Triple Trobule, or or or, millions of examples. All of them same type of gameplay, but different content, applies to different players.

So “Fractal runners”, as a general term, won’t necessarily move on to Raids, at least not for a very long time, much like how Dungeon runners didn’t move to Fractals right away. It’s different content, although similar. Yes Raids will apply more to Fractal runners, but not all Fractal runners will like them all the same, at least not 90% of them.

Fractals != Raids

Watch out guys……

The moment developers send data, code, applications, etc… to the user, it is literally all wide open to those who want to dig through it; especially those who do it for a living. If they do a pre-load, there will be certain people who will have information on the legendary collections, for example, and have an unfair time advantage when gathering them let alone the lower cost of the items since most of the population doesn’t know their worth. They may even hoard these items and make a killing in the TP later and/or sell the information. That’s just one example of how the pre-load can be abused.

Or they are quite literally working on it till the last minute. (probably why they don’t have physical copies available )

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

kaat.8237:

Maybe they are still fine tuning it? Maybe it will be ready Friday and isn’t ready right now? Sheesh.

thats unacceptable.

What’re you gonna do about it?

Maybe it’s already preloaded, or at least a good portion of it. Have you looked at the Verdant Brink maps? You can see map markers on there.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

kaat.8237:

Maybe they are still fine tuning it? Maybe it will be ready Friday and isn’t ready right now? Sheesh.

thats unacceptable.

Then don’t accept it. Go there and DEMAND that they install it on your computer RIGHT NOW!

NOW!!!

Heh heh, yeah. Like it or not, I’m sure you can accept it. Though I think it’s more about avoiding spoilers than anything else.

Maybe they are still fine tuning it? Maybe it will be ready Friday and isn’t ready right now? Sheesh.

Zach.2618:

Guys if you look at the whole thread it is mostly just ohoni arguing against everyone else. Why is this thread still alive seriously, just let ohoni perceive it as taking grind to a whole new lvl who cares. Why are you trying to convince someone who obviously won’t be convinced.

That’s every thread.

This thread has officially become a grind to read.

BaconofPigs.1683:

These are Ohoni’s opinions:

1. If you have to spend more than 20g on a set of armor it’s grind. In fact this threshold is arbitrary that he would bend to make his point.
2. If you have to play a content that you don’t like to play to obtain a reward, it’s grind but he bends like to [insert whatever arbitrary things here, include option A, B, C, D, etc, up to possibly the entire game except for the reward part].
Hence
3. [Insert whatever he doesn’t like here] = grinding. Hence any activity that mention [these things] will make the game grindy. i.e., he can claim whatever existing in the game as grinding by specific exclusion/inclusion. Trying to have the cake and eat it too.
4. He mistakes elite vs elitist
5. He want easier contents (albeit grindy) to obtain legendary precursor (we’ve proven that there is no alternative option since if you choose the alternative option, it must be easier for you)
6. He mistakes length of time to obtain items to difficulty contents to obtain items
7. Misquoting information to show an incorrect point. This has happened from times to time. (e.g., he has failed to show a quote of a dev saying "exotic will be BiS gear forever but he keeps saying that)

There are more but this margin is too narrow to contain it

^ This.

Guys, stop trying to have a conversation with Ohoni, it’s not worth it – very self-centered and all the advice you guys are giving her is going over her head. Razor you have a saint like patience! Anyways, this thread has been derailed enough. Mods please close it.

Ohoni is just a perfect example of the damage caused by the “everyone gets a trophy” generation, people wanting the reward but not wanting to actually achieve what is needed to get it

He thinks that not getting a reward he wants, despite his complete lack of effort to obtain it, as unacceptsble, pure self entitlement.

If you want a gold medal in the Olympics, for a specific sport you get good at the sport and you go earn the medal. You dont get a gold medal in pole vaulting for playing a gameboy in your living room.
This whole idea of “getting any reward for only doing the things I like” is completely rediculous and entirely self serving

Nike.2631:

I’m sincerely impressed the moot court has gone on with such enthusiasm, but we keep seeing references to a majority no one can prove and a majority that has never mattered in the first place because it’s not a democracy. Insert endless loop here.

To me the only real question these threads have to offer is ‘will they retain their vigor after HoT launches?’ I’m guessing ‘yes’, because the actual raids are still a few weeks out. But really I’m surprised the defenders of the status quo feel threatened enough to feed the fires this long. IF Ohoni is right then things will change, though not until long after the raids have been live and generated real use-case data. No one here is going to talk ArenaNet into changing course. And I think it’s fascinating to believe anything has been said here that wasn’t already considered behind closed doors when a path forward was being decided on.

I completely agree no one at Anet is hearing these arguments for the first time, the reason people are arguing against Ohoni and friends is to stop them generating an angry mob fueled with misinformation and madness. If you let bad ideas/idealogies fester and gather strength you can see mob rule breaking down good things.

I’m sincerely impressed the moot court has gone on with such enthusiasm, but we keep seeing references to a majority no one can prove and a majority that has never mattered in the first place because it’s not a democracy. Insert endless loop here.

To me the only real question these threads have to offer is ‘will they retain their vigor after HoT launches?’ I’m guessing ‘yes’, because the actual raids are still a few weeks out. But really I’m surprised the defenders of the status quo feel threatened enough to feed the fires this long. IF Ohoni is right then things will change, though not until long after the raids have been live and generated real use-case data. No one here is going to talk ArenaNet into changing course. And I think it’s fascinating to believe anything has been said here that wasn’t already considered behind closed doors when a path forward was being decided on.

Ohoni.6057:

Those six slots give +20 primary sta and +16 secodary stats, so are irrelevant as far as any barrier to content or victory is concerned. You are being dishonest by trying to imply they would be any sort of requirement.

So since those numbers are so irrelevant, it wouldn’t be a problem if they made Ascended armor far cheaper to acquire, right?

Actually it means the opposite xD If Ascended Armour takes a bit of time that gives people something longer term to go for but also not infringing too much on others’ ability to keep up.

Don’t you understand yet?

The game would revert back to it’s older self — just with more content.

Which is what most GW2 players want.

Clearly this isn’t the case, otherwise you’d have someone helping to defend you.

Ohoni.6057:

I don’t see going around the globe and collecting different Oozes as “grind”, instead if I had to kill ONE ooze and had a 2% chance of dropping what I needed then it would be more of a grind

Well, I agree on that, having to kill dozens of oozes, especially if it were one specific one over and over, would be worse than just having to kill one each in various places, but I still think that the current lists sound like too many tasks to just earn a Precursor for the three year old legendaries. If this had been the system at launch, then I’d probably be fine with it, but they’ve dragged this out for three years now, and I feel we should have received “time served.”

It’s a game. Time served is not something that nescessarilly needs to be paid out. It would be like asking for a free episode after watching all the Doctor Who episodes. Because you served time watching it. (Just an illustration)

Missing out on rewards is a completely acceptable option.

It really isn’t.

You need a reality check. If you don’t do the necessary steps in a game towards a reward you don’t get the reward. It’s an option to do these steps or not. Some people are fine just playing the story, others are just fine doing pvp only on the basis of getting to be the best gw2 team. They miss out on tons of rewards because they don’t choose to put in the time or effort. Which is completely acceptable. It’s a game, you play the game by its rules and get whichever enjoyment you can out of it.
Sure you can plea for change but the game still will have rules, and there’s different opinions on what is the most fun. You already shown a complete disregard to some opinions and prejudged them as character flaws. Fine as your opinion, but in a business no one is going to take such a notion seriously let alone change their product to such a notion. Especially a luxury good like a game isn’t there to be the supreme role model or to carryout their political campaign against people with different opinions. It needs to be inclusive to be successful. Your notion of intolerance has no place here.