Guild Wars 2

jheryn.8390:

HtFde.3856:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

People really complaining about grinding?
You grind for loot.
You grind for crafting materials.
You grind dungeons for tokens.
Oct. 23rd and the highly anticipated HoT release – within hours people complain about grinding.
smh

That’s not quite the issue here

So you get to tell him which issue he wants to address? Not hardly.

I think he hit the nail on the head.

HtFde.3856:

- and the “storm” here in the forum is mainly based on not revealing important things before pre-purchase even started. Namely:

As a company they do not have to reveal a shred of information. We are fortunate we got what they gave us. We are not entitled to anything.

HtFde.3856:

People expected the elite spec to be available more or less from the start – instead they are hit with double gated content AND a huge HP cost. Get almost all HP from HoTM – to get those get a lot of masteries first.

So it’s not the grinding as such (or rather, not JUST the grinding) but it’s the way things turned out to be – which is a rather radical change from how GW 2 was before HoT and which was nowhere announced.

People (from my point of view rightly so) expected to be able to play their Chronomancer, Reaper, whatnot a few hours into the game and to enjoy HoT WITH the new elite spec. Instead they have to go through HoT with their old build do unlock the elite spec to then … er … have nothing really new to try it out with.

Assuming is stupid. You and others have no one else but yourselves to blame for “expecting” anything.

Just one point on this: “we are fortunate we got what they gave us” and “expecting”. As paying customers there are expectations.

(TL;DR version at the bottom.)

As a game developer in training and avid GW2 fan, I’d like to give my 2 cents on this:

But first, I want to congratulate Colin and the GW2 dev team on this amazing expansion release. In my experience, this has been one of the smoothest xpac releases I’ve ever seen and so far I’m having tons of fun in HoT. I think HoT is an amazing expansion and this deserves to be said.

However, that does not mean HoT is without flaws and the most obvious and jarring flaw is the way elite specializations and hero points are implemented.

What I think is wrong with the current implementation of the elite specs and hero points (TL;DR version at the bottom):

Personally, when I’m playing the game and reading this thread, I’m having incredible deja vu. The complaints I have seen about the implementation of elite specs and hero points are incredibly familiar. Does anyone remember the initial implementation of the NPE (New Player Experience)? If not, I suggest you type in “NPE” in the search bar on this forum and read the threads that come up. Notice the similarities? I do.

The biggest problem with the NPE was that unlocking all your traits and completing your character became an incredible grind. People were essentially forced to do map completion on each and every character in order to unlock all their traits. Doing map completion and unlocking your traits once is fun, doing it twice is fine, doing it 3 times becomes an annoyance, doing it 8 times (once for each class) becomes an incredibly boring and obnoxious grind.

Anet realized their mistake with the NPE and eventually changed it. Now you can unlock all your core specializations by simply getting your character to level 80. A lot of people were very happy with that change.

In comes HoT and what do we see? The exact same issues that the NPE had are once again back in HoT. If we want to fully unlock our elite specs, we’re once again forced to go through a grind very similar to the NPE trait-unlock grind that people hated to much.

I’m quite baffled that Anet seemingly hasn’t learned a thing after the NPE debacle.

I’ll say again what I said about the NPE: I’m not particularly bothered that we have to play through 50% of HoT to fully unlock our elite specializations (or 100% if you don’t have 100% map completion in central Tyria). The content is fun and I’m having a blast doing it. But being forced to go through 100% of HoT (or 100% of central Tyria + 50% of HoT) on each and every single character to unlock their elite specializations is a problem. That quickly becomes a bothersome grind that most people simply don’t enjoy doing.

On top of that, there is the feeling of disappointment that I won’t be able to explore the HoT maps while playing my elite specializations, at least not on my characters that don’t have 100% map completion in central Tyria. By the time I have my elite specializations unlocked on those characters, I’ll already be done with exploring all the new HoT maps.

TL;DR version:

The issues we’re facing now with the elite specializations and how they are unlocked is almost identical to the issues we faced with unlocking our traits after the release of the NPE.

The amount of work that goes into fully unlocking an elite specialization quickly becomes a bothersome grind when you have multiple characters that you want to unlock your elite spec on.

On top of that there is the feeling of disappointment that we won’t be able to explore the new HoT maps while playing our elite specializations. By the time we have our elite specs fully unlocked, we’re already pretty much done with exploring the new HoT maps. This seems to have disappointed a lot of players, myself included.

Page 65?

Could someone please tell me at what point in the new “forum mastery” line we will unlock the “dev response” trait?

I won’t write much, because I think 64 pages are more than enough for the attention of anet! I will only say:
1) I have 3 guardians and have to do same stuff to unlock same content..well i can live to have unlocked DH on only one of my guards, but..
2) I have so many other chars I want to play with the new specialisation and yesterday i stopped HP GRINDING! Yeah GRINDING!!! I want to experience the whole new content with the new specialisation I paid for and I know, that some HP should be needed to unlock it, but the amount you expect we to GRIND is just unrealistic! Grind yourself, I am out! Take your money you got from me, but I am out until something change and if not, I don’t care and I am sure, I am not the only one!
I just wanted to have fun with the new content, yeah play months for getting masteries, but HP are NOT masteries! Well it got actually too long than I expected, but take your time reading like many take their time to GRIND!!! Sorry, I don’t have the time for this!!! Three years loyality for nothing….NO MORE!!

PS: And btw you (maybe not intentionally) tried to kill my wvw server and turned my game into horror. I want a game to have fun, not to write on forums! I hate writing on forums!

Sorry if any mistakes, I don’t want to read it one more time.

Why give 200 hp’s for map completion? I’ll tell you why.

Anet wanted to force us into Maguuma Jungle for a LONG TIME. If they made hp’s account-wide like they did the masteries, we would all, even us weekend warriors, be able to complete the new maps in a month or two. Then, we’d all get bored and start wondering why we paid $50 for so little content. So some (high-ranking) fool at Anet decided that they needed to hold a gun to our head and make us grind through the same content for every character we cared about to stretch the content out. They did this even though forced grinding runs completely contrary to Anet’s published philosophy that repetitive gameplay is boring.

So back to the question of why map completion? It’s simple. Map completion is the only character-specific aspect of the game. Every other aspect of the game that could be quantitatively used to measure “accomplishment” is account-wide. WvW rank, PvP rank, fractal level, dungeon mastery, living story, achievements, legendary crafting, etc. are all account-wide. Map completion is all that’s left. Even though just running around Tyria for 50 hours hitting all the POI’s and vistas is about as brain-dead and unchallenging an activity you can imagine, it the only activity that creates a NUMBER that is different on every one of your characters.

TL;DR – Map completion because if you are a lazy teacher, it’s faster to grade your students by their attendance record than it is to sit down and grade their tests.

It feels like u buying a new game, but u need to play with ur old stuff and when u finished the new contents then u can play with the new stuff.

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

People really complaining about grinding?
You grind for loot.
You grind for crafting materials.
You grind dungeons for tokens.
Oct. 23rd and the highly anticipated HoT release – within hours people complain about grinding.
smh

That’s not quite the issue here – and the “storm” here in the forum is mainly based on not revealing important things before pre-purchase even started. Namely:

(1) Massive change in the personal story that is no longer more or less linear but requires you to get certain masteries – which forces you to get them in HoT because you cannot raise HoTM masterie sby any other means. The level gated personal story (also a late addition) didn’t care where and how you got your levels.

(2) People expected the elite spec to be available more or less from the start – instead they are hit with double gated content AND a huge HP cost. Get almost all HP from HoT – to get those, get a lot of masteries first.

So it’s not the grinding as such (or rather, not JUST the grinding) but it’s the way things turned out to be – which is a rather radical change from how GW 2 was before HoT and which was nowhere announced.

People (from my point of view rightly so) expected to be able to play their Chronomancer, Reaper, whatnot a few hours into the game and to enjoy HoT WITH the new elite spec. Instead they have to go through HoT with their old build do unlock the elite spec to then … er … have nothing really new to try it out with.

I am going to attempt to offer both insight into my own experience with the expansion and also offer suggestions on how to resolve most of the issues that people are having with HoT.

I am what you would refer to as the casual GW2 player. I come home from work and log in to the game to spend a few hours to relax. What I like about GW2 is that it is ACCESSIBLE to nearly anyone. I mostly play PVE with my wife. I choose not to play other game modes because of the PVP “RAWR I KILLZ YOU ALL” mentality of it and I don’t do dungeons mostly because of the “lolz get better gear. kick.” situations. So either I play the content solo, or my wife and I play together.

I have a few alts that I use because sometimes it just feels like a thief sort of night. I do not have world completion on said thief because honestly I don’t play it very well. During the BW though, I found that the Daredevil spec for the thief was right up my alley. I was taking down mobs in Orr solo. So I pre-purchased 3 copies of the expansion for myself, my wife, and her sister so we could all enjoy it together.

Now for the actual experience. I will have to admit that i ragequit the first night playing HoT. At first I was angry with the requirements for unlocking the Daredevil spec. I purchased the expansion with the hopes of being able to do world completion with the Daredevil spec or any other spec on an alt that I like to play. In reality, I have to do world completion beforehand and then hope to make it to all the Hero Points in the new area to get them before I die on any alt that I’d like to unlock. By that time, however, I’ve already finished what I wanted the spec for in the first place.

I’ve moved on past anger into just simple disappointment. I’m disappointed in Anet’s handling of something I was looking forward to. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not feeling “entitled” to having things handed to me. I just feel like it could have been handled better.

Which brings me to suggestions on how to fix the issues.

Hero Points
Remove the 5 minute timer. I was soloing one of the champs just fine. Had him down to 1/4 health and noticed I had 30 seconds left. Without the timer, people may be able to complete a few more of them.
Also a possibility: Make the Hero Points that spawn champions have an option. You can select either to go for 5 Hero Points and it spawns some of the new veterans or go for the full 10 Hero Points if you think you can handle it.

Elite Specs
In GW1 you could buy sets of spells and skills from the game to use. Do the same for Elite Specializations. Allow people to fully unlock the Elites of their choice with Gems. I think 700 – 1000 Gems would be reasonable. Offer this as an option to the Hero Point route. Think about it. I know that I would gladly spend that in order to play the way that I want to. There’s an extra $100 to $200 just from me alone. Now some might say that is pay to win. I disagree. That is paying to play a game that I enjoy and I don’t mind spending money on.

Masteries
The XP grind is real. Anet, you did a great job on the imaginative Masteries in the new area. I don’t mind having to unlock them to be able to explore. But please let the events and other activities in the new areas give a little more XP.

All in all, I want to enjoy HoT. I really want to like it. It’s just hard when you’re frustrated over it’s implementation. I sincerely hope that Anet is considering a few tweaks to how the content is handled. With a few nudges here and there it could be a great addition to a game that I already love.

Raziel.4216:

Empty events? didn’t they fix the megaserver bug?
kitten luck if you still have empty servers

No. Players still focusing in concentrated areas. Some events well populated many completely empty. Mega server is map wide balancing and doesn’t really address players on a map concentrated in specific areas. .

Have a annoying player who’s already beat HoT final boss rambling on in map chat about how they don’t understand all the complaints about the game, etc…? Do this: Ask them to bring over an alt and play with you in Verdant Brink from the beginning of the map. After about 30-45 minutes of constant defeat due to empty events they will eventually get frustrated. If they say anything at all before departing they may suggest you map explore, do adventures or some other approach which of course they never took since they just traveled with the launch heard and blasted though the content.

They will never admit that the experience of trying to get honest XP now from events is ridiculous and broken due to lack of players and content that is largely not soloable without specific classes and builds.

Of course these players don’t give a kitten about your experience or the game in general. Their feelings towards the new content is entirely based on their experience having played from launch and went hard core for the past five days. That’s all they know or care about and now they get to be the ones who tell the world how great it is. It’s misleading of course. They may never admit it but they will probably stop talking about how amazing it is and they probably won’t play on an alt anytime soon. In the back of their mind they are probably thinking “yep, this is exactly why I blasted though everything for the past five days, sucks to be them”

Use boosters? I’m running all sort of boosters, food, fireworks, celebration booster, XP booster…I have 15 mastery points spent so far.

You haven’t been around for many MMO expansion releases, have you?

With base game (not Heart of Thorns) full map completion, you’ll still need around 180 hero points to completely unlock 1 elite spec. Just pray you don’t have alts…

I just wanted to add my opinion to this too. I love the expansion, the new maps are great. I really wish I could play through the new maps with the ‘elite’ classes, instead I can’t and felt myself torn between wanting to rush through the maps to get hero points, and enjoying/exploring the new content.

And I spent the weekend enjoying the new maps and exploring, meaning that by the time I get enough hero points for all my chars, i’d have explored everything and not played/enjoyed the elite specs at all which I feel is a big shame.

At the bare minimum, hero points need to be tuned down to be doable solo.

Right now, one of HoT’s primarily selling points (and by far the most emphasized) is gated behind a hero point grind, that’s gated behind a mastery grind, that’s gated behind an exp grind, that’s gated behind a fifty dollar paywall. It’s no surprise people (most of whom wanted to play HoT as their elite spec, not for it) aren’t happy with that.

I’ve always thought “culture of entitlement” was a stupid argument. All of our inventions since the beginning of time are made for the sole purpose of making our lives easier. It is literally in our nature since our beginning to want things to be easier, so saying we have a “culture of entitlement” is like saying dogs have paws.

Chipofsalt.4673:

Also compare it to GW2’s predecessor. In the first Guild Wars, it took A LOT of effort or wealth to unlock all of your skills by the time EoTN was released. How is the decision to make elite specs time consuming to obtain any different of a move?

GW1 you had the freedom to go for a certain skill you want and not play with a crippled build; GW2 – forced to waste points on useless trait lines than directly spend on the elite spec which we want.

Also please don’t give the heavy time wasting grinders the title of hardcore gamers and the opposite to casuals.

Hardcore gamers uplift their own skill and understanding of the game; the human element. Some hardcore gamers just put up with the grind, grinding doesnt make anyone a hardcore gamer.

Oh and by the way, elite specializations don’t offer any character progression. You don’t get any better. It only offers an alternate playstyle. Heck, if you play the elite without having all the traits your character actually regresses.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

captaincrash.6528:

When you buy a Zelda game do you cry to Nintendo that you can’t go onto and complete the last dungeon, have all equipment, at the start of the game? Prerelease they marketed progression in this expansion to that of Zelda and Metroid, you knew what you were getting into.

If, without taking sides, I understand the argument – and to use DOOM as my analogy: some players are arguing that they’re being forced to play through almost the entire campaign only to get the shotgun at the end, when all they wanted was to play through the campaign with the shotgun. Especially since they were given the impression from the box cover art that the shotgun would be standard issue.

Kind of, But.

Take the shotgun and put it behind a barrier that you cannot reach unless you have 4 other players standing on a pressure plates at the same time. And this is after you have played the game to death over 3 years using the same weapon and you will begin to see the problem.

captaincrash.6528:

When you buy a Zelda game do you cry to Nintendo that you can’t go onto and complete the last dungeon, have all equipment, at the start of the game? Prerelease they marketed progression in this expansion to that of Zelda and Metroid, you knew what you were getting into.

If, without taking sides, I understand the argument – and to use DOOM as my analogy: some players are arguing that they’re being forced to play through almost the entire campaign only to get the shotgun at the end, when all they wanted was to play through the campaign with the shotgun. Especially since they were given the impression from the box cover art that the shotgun would be standard issue.

Khristophoros.7194:

1) You don’t need your elite spec to play through HoT.

Why should I have to play through it with my old builds that I’m bored of?

2) It’s an elite spec – it shouldn’t be cheap by its nature.

Calling something “elite” doesn’t change anything. If that were the case it would be stronger than the base specializations, but it’s not meant to be. It’s meant to be balanced.

3) It incentivizes map completion and/or WvW participation.

I don’t want to be incentivized to do stuff. It’s my choice what I do. I’m tired of game devs telling me what to do. There’s a time and place for incentivization. It’s called PvP. You have to incentivize interactive gameplay in PvP. In PvE the player should be free to do whatever they feel like doing.

4) You don’t need the entire line unlocked for it to be used (or even useful).

It feels bad to go around with an incomplete build.

5) Keeping them character bound keeps it in line with non-elite specs.

They are in line with non-elite specs by nature of being balanced. You can still play builds without them and not be at a disadvantage.

Remember when they said GW2 would be play how you want when you want? i guess if you want to play with your new trait line you have to grind you kitten off even though they have allways been anti grinding.

ive quit the game untill either masteries or the elite spec get changed/fixed

1) You don’t need your elite spec to play through HoT.

Why should I have to play through it with my old builds that I’m bored of?

2) It’s an elite spec – it shouldn’t be cheap by its nature.

Calling something “elite” doesn’t change anything. If that were the case it would be stronger than the base specializations, but it’s not meant to be. It’s meant to be balanced.

3) It incentivizes map completion and/or WvW participation.

I don’t want to be incentivized to do stuff. It’s my choice what I do. I’m tired of game devs telling me what to do. There’s a time and place for incentivization. It’s called PvP. You have to incentivize interactive gameplay in PvP. In PvE the player should be free to do whatever they feel like doing.

4) You don’t need the entire line unlocked for it to be used (or even useful).

It feels bad to go around with an incomplete build.

5) Keeping them character bound keeps it in line with non-elite specs.

They are in line with non-elite specs by nature of being balanced. You can still play builds without them and not be at a disadvantage.

Chipofsalt.4673:

You seem to be confusing something. There is more than one way to run an MMO, and just because I believe in the less popular opinion does not make me any more or less correct than you are. Saying my point is coming from “absolute ignorance” is simply myopic.

Of course players matter. If Anet chooses to cater more towards the hardcore players, sure they’d lose some casuals, but they would also gain a different player base.

Anet is betting the bank that the game can survive without the casuals – which is typically the older demographic with the deeper pocket books.

Chipofsalt.4673:

1) You don’t need your elite spec to play through HoT.

With very few exceptions, you don’t need gliding either. But the zones would be a lot less fun without it.

Chipofsalt.4673:

2) It’s an elite spec – it shouldn’t be cheap by its nature.

They are elite in name only, not in power.

Chipofsalt.4673:

3) It incentivizes map completion and/or WvW participation.

Map completion already has rewards, which incentivizes map completion and has never needed incentivizing beyond that. WvW participation does not need such an incentive either, nor does the process of getting elite specs through WvW incentivize playing it when you normally don’t, since it’s such a slow alternative.

Chipofsalt.4673:

4) You don’t need the entire line unlocked for it to be used (or even useful).

Useful, yes. Weak and suboptimal, also yes.

Chipofsalt.4673:

5) Keeping them character bound keeps it in line with non-elite specs.

And making them cost 400 HP (e.g. either all 40 HoT HP or 20 HoT HP and 200 Tyria) does not keep them in line with non-elite specs.

Chipofsalt.4673:

SamTheGuardian.2938:

It comes down to the majority feeling the Elite Specialization should be something we can enjoy the new content with and play though vs receiving it as an end-game award. The Elite Specialization is irrational as an end-game reward because the Elite Specialization introduces a new play mechanic that’s exclusive to Heart of Thorns. Unique items, skins, etc… make sense are end-game rewards a new play mechanic makes absolutely no sense as a end-game reward. It’s beyond irrational, it’s asinine and horrible design by any game design theory you want to apply.

Given the overwelming anger over this many of us have requested ArenaNet provide some rational as to why they have provided unique play mechanics for each class and then have decided to make locked down until end of game. They have elected not to address this question.

How is it being an end-game reward irrational? It seems more to me that’s your interpretation.

HoT answered many complaints that people had towards vanilla GW2, and that was its lack of endgame content. Now that Anet added an answer to it, people still aren’t satisfied.

Any modern MMO you look at has a similar model. End-game content is largely a grind fest once you learn the mechanics. The issue is more that people feel betrayed that Anet is moving away from catering to casuals.

To address your betrayal point (which is a separate issue)- The anti-casual shift is counter to everything they were preaching to us with the core game lunch. They had a set of tenants that made up their philosophy on how to build a better MMO and they put that into a manifesto and they drove their marketing with it. Over the past few years they have been changing that. HoT’s anti-causal design is a complete about-face and withdraw of their manifesto. It represents a “if you can’t beat them, join them philosophy” attitude in design and it betrayal of every player who has invested time in the game trusting in the integrity of ArenaNet. Having said that it has nothing to do with the irrational design behind Elite Specializations.

Almost every MMO makes you grind, but show me one that makes the end-game reward a core advertised play mechanic. This is different than rolling a new class is WoW and having to level them (and games like WoW give you plenty of options to level quickly)

The Elite Specialization construct doesn’t even exist in that many MMOs, but if you want to draw a comparison, look at another NCSoft game AION. In AION you have to work to unlock your elite specialization but it comes about 25-30% into the game.

That progression is well paced and is about the point in the core GW2 game where a player unlocks their elite skill and finally has their full skill bar. About 25-30% in is where the full Elite Sepcialization (minus the unique skins, and weapon mods) should be available to play. I agree with making players work for it but there’s a huge difference in making most characters have to work though 75-90% of the content in order to create a viable build and utilize the new play mechanic vs making them work though 25-30% of the new content and then allowing them to enjoyu the last 70-75% with the new Elite Specialization. Players who journey into HoT with a character that has the 213 hero points from map competition will get the unlock sooner (~50% of HoT) and they will get to experience a good chunk of the content but they are he exception to the rule not the norm. So when we talk the HoT Elite Specs as end-game awards, we’re talking about for the players who are coming in with less than 100 hero points. They will have to spend 60 just to unlock the empty trait line. It comes down to what is a core play mechanic of the expansion and what isn’t. Your perspective that the Elite Specializations are not something the average character could expect to play though the game with is irrational because it is a new play mechanic that has been advertised as being a big part of the game. There’s not really further discussion to be had if you don’t understand or disagree. I’d can’t respect your opinion on because it doesn’t match any successful pattern I know of. But you are entitled to your opinion.

Chipofsalt.4673:

With all of the redundant posts on this forum regarding elite specializations being gated behind a heap of prerequisite hero points, I thought it would be fun to play devil’s advocate. Ultimately, I think the issue isn’t the number of points required to unlock them, but the nature of how difficult the HoT hero challenges are.

Here’s why I believe the hero point requirement should not be changed:

1) You don’t need your elite spec to play through HoT.
2) It’s an elite spec – it shouldn’t be cheap by its nature.
3) It incentivizes map completion and/or WvW participation.
4) You don’t need the entire line unlocked for it to be used (or even useful).
5) Keeping them character bound keeps it in line with non-elite specs.

Most of the complaints I’ve seen about the hero point requirements seem to come from our culture of entitlement (I should get it now – or at least sooner – because I want it now).

That all said, I do think there is a HUGE problem with the fact that it’s almost impossible (or in some cases very difficult) to solo the hero challenges in the new zones. If someone is serious about unlocking their elite specialization, they should be able to do it with or without their friends and guildies.

Because you seem to be in your own little world where other players don’t matter, here is a response for your broken argument:
1.)People may not NEED them, but they want them, they have been playing the same classes since launch, they want to play through the content in a refreshing new way.
2.)It really is not “elite” it is essentially just a new trait line, not saying you shouldn’t have to unlock them, but the current grind for them is out of control, and many people have a lot of alts.
3.)Map completion is boring to many (like myself) why should we be forced to do it to unlock something that is core to the expansion we paid for, we didn’t pay for it to do content we don’t want to, and it creates an incentive to Ktrain in WVW, instead of actually playing WvW with how slowly you get the hero points…
4.)Actually, yes, you do need the entire line to be unlocked to have a viable build in WvW, and I would argue the same for fractals/dungeons. Otherwise you are running with a sub-optimal spec. You would be better off speccing in a fully completed line that has nothing to do with your build.
5.)Non-elite specs are attainable on every character reasonably, grinding to get them on 8+ alts is just unbelievable. TO EVEN THINK THAT it is reasonable to either: repeat the map completion PVE nonsense on multiple characters or level up thousands of times in WVW is fair is just total nonsense, especially to people that abhor the pve zones.

And entitlement MY kitten This is a game, not saying they should be instantly unlocked, but maybe like a story quest, a few WVW rank ups, a reward track or two in PVP would seem fair, and it’s not like many players didn’t pay REAL MONEY THAT THEY EARNED WORKING A REAL JOB to play the elite specs, to some that is really all they wanted, they did not want to grind for months on end as a casual player. Hardcore players will have their elite specs as soon as possible after launch regardless of what the devs do, thats just how it works, why screw over casual players that make up much of the player base of GW2, that have work and lives outside of playing non-stop. It just doesn’t make any sense to me

And, personally, I am getting fed up with people having this assumption that I should have to play the new zones to get my spec, I enjoy playing PVP, I hate playing PVE, I tried to play the expansion to see if I would enjoy it, I enjoyed gliding around and seeing the new zone, that is it, the group events were boring to me, and to imagine doing them to get the specs on all my chars is nonsense.

To argue that its fine as is, is just absolute ignorance.

/rantoff.

Chipofsalt.4673:

…
1) You don’t need your elite spec to play through HoT.
.

Clipped everything else from your post because really everything else you say is just to support 1. No one is going to disagree with you. We don’t need our elite specialization to play thoug HoT. It comes down to the majority feeling the Elite Specialization should be something we can enjoy the new content with and play though vs receiving it as an end-game award. The Elite Specialization is irrational as an end-game reward because the Elite Specialization introduces a new play mechanic that’s exclusive to Heart of Thorns. Unique items, skins, etc… make sense are end-game rewards a new play mechanic makes absolutely no sense as a end-game reward. It’s beyond irrational, it’s asinine and horrible design by any game design theory you want to apply.

Given the overwelming anger over this many of us have requested ArenaNet provide some rational as to why they have provided unique play mechanics for each class and then have decided to make locked down until end of game. They have elected not to address this question.

I believe they are avoiding the direct question regarding them being end-game rewards, because they know how irrational this design is. Everyone makes mistakes. Just like gating the story chapters with mastery level was a mistake which they realized and change so is the Elite Specialization unlock. The Elite Specialization unlock implementation a MUCH BIGGER mistake because it takes the aspect of the expansion many of us were looking most forward to obtaining and makes it impossible to play the game with that. It’s not acceptable design. It would at least be nice if ArenaNet would address the community and discuss their rational for the design, but they won’t.

I see the design as an implementation put in place to funnel players to the gem store store for boost items over the next month. It’s likely a strategy for raising profits for the quarter earning report and maximizing the utility of the expansion’s release to achieve that goal. Thinking about it, that is the only rational I can come up with and it’s a really back handed thing to do to your player base if that is in fact what’s going on with it. If they continue to stay silent about it and then a few months down the road it changes we’ll have our answer.

It’s not about what we need and don’t need, it comes down to core game features that alter the play mechanic and add fun/value to the content we were paying for. It comes down to common sense game design decisions regarding what to provide as a reward and when to award it. The arguments come down to a certain group of players who’ve lost the last three days of their lives rushing though the entire expanshion who want to come to forums and scream to the community “I don’t see what the big deal is” or “I love it as it’s implemented because now for rushing the expanshion I get to be the one of a handful of Chronomasters, Druids, etc.. on my server”. Pathetic.

Suggestion to more casual players
Give it so some time and perhaps give the PvE side of the game a rest for now. You can unlock hero points in WvW and you can play with your full Elite Spec in sPvP. There are options to enjoy aspects of the game while the PvE side gets flushed out. If some of these things were implemented to maximize gem store purchase at launch they will eventually change. While I think ArenaNet should address the Elite Specialization unlock questions if it is because of revenue never forget that we get ot play each month for free. So ultimately even if this is a tactic to generate revenue don’t hate on them too until it proves to be long term

Chipofsalt.4673:

1) You don’t need your elite spec to play through HoT.

Issues isn’t playing through HoT, people want to experience all the new content with the elite specizalation.

2) It’s an elite spec – it shouldn’t be cheap by its nature.

Elite specs are not elite in any way shape or form, they are just another way to play an existing class so they should be cheap

3) It incentivizes map completion and/or WvW participation.

Same as number 1. I want to do 100% map completion and explore and do the HP’s. I just want to do then on elite spec but can’t as they are all done before it’s unlocked

4) You don’t need the entire line unlocked for it to be used (or even useful).

In most cases depends on the build, for example herald where you can ONLY use the skills from glint

5) Keeping them character bound keeps it in line with non-elite specs.

I don’t get it?

Chipofsalt.4673:

With all of the redundant posts on this forum regarding elite specializations being gated behind a heap of prerequisite hero points, I thought it would be fun to play devil’s advocate. Ultimately, I think the issue isn’t the number of points required to unlock them, but the nature of how difficult the HoT hero challenges are.

Here’s why I believe the hero point requirement should not be changed:

1) You don’t need your elite spec to play through HoT.
2) It’s an elite spec – it shouldn’t be cheap by its nature.
3) It incentivizes map completion and/or WvW participation.
4) You don’t need the entire line unlocked for it to be used (or even useful).
5) Keeping them character bound keeps it in line with non-elite specs.

Most of the complaints I’ve seen about the hero point requirements seem to come from our culture of entitlement (I should get it now – or at least sooner – because I want it now).

That all said, I do think there is a HUGE problem with the fact that it’s almost impossible (or in some cases very difficult) to solo the hero challenges in the new zones. If someone is serious about unlocking their elite specialization, they should be able to do it with or without their friends and guildies.

Running around with a partial spec bs these mobs is bad

It wasn’t cheap cost me 60$

Fun should be my incemtive.

They give you a weapon and new class mechanic but they are not elite compared to the regular professions. This is just an alternate playstyle. It shouldn’t cost more.