Guild Wars 2

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Anet wants players to actually play the game? And you’re complaining about that?

I have no words…

Its almost like people expected to play the game with new elite specs or something….

The mastery grind is real. Most people, like myself, expected masteries and elite specs to exist as separate entities.

So I ran around HoT maps with my ranger, looking for pets. I ran into a few skill challenges and for the most part you need a group to complete them. Right now thats fine as people are running around like mad grinding them out, but what happens when that slackens. Are we supposed to beg in map chat for help with simple hero challenges. This is worse than I had feared. Really, what were you people thinking? Take away the excellent art team and this game is nothing, because if this game wasnt as pretty as it is, more and more people would be leaving.

cygnus.8913:

Ansau.7326:

Ok, done some farming of hero points in WvW and here are the results:
- Time spent: 4h.
- Way spended: Pure PvD optimized farming (karma train, killing all guards, trying always to get catas or rams…).
- Bonus: I have the celebration bonus which gives +100% WvW experience.
- Hero points gained: 41.

Doing maths, I will need 80h per character of pure PvD farming, or 40h with WvW experience boost.

I need to get, at least, 2 full elite specializations, which will require 80h of pure farming. I’ve played about 2500h since the game started, so I need to spend more than 3% of the time I’ve spent in this game in intensive PvD farming to be able to use skills and traits.

This is blatantly ridiculous and there’s no way this can be considered character progression.

I don’t think 40 hours is too bad (I know your example is with a booster) to max out the spec. I’d be happy with that – it’s pretty much what a traditional MMO would have you do to obtain ten levels.

Time should be counted as 80h, since 40 is with 2 celebration boosters spent (which is something not everybody has, neither you can buy).

But the worst thing is pretty much the optimized time in perfect PvD farming, which is not like dungeon farming. If your server doesn’t have a blob capping everything, or if eotm theres no karma train when you connect, needed time gets increased alarmingly.

For example, with roaming it’s arguably impossible.

45€ for this frustrating experience? First I don’t know who thought making us play IN A VERTICAL MAP THAT REQUIRES A GLIDER, without a glider was a good idea, I punched my table 2-3 times before I got a glider.

Second, 400 hero points to unlock elite specs that I can’t even just play the game mode I enjoy for? I gotta do these kittenty hero challenges for it, which I have done 80% in the first 2 zones and got 20% elite spec unlocked. Are you serious? I don’t wanna farm the same events (go here and kill mobs because that hasn’t been done before in this game) over and over, just want my elite spec so I can go WvW

I don’t understand the reasoning behind the soulbound 400 hero point grind. It’s not a challenge, it’s a time gate. That you have to repeat over and over and over. You are forced to play in ways you don’t want to for long periods of time, just to get to play how you want. You have already sold us on the expansion, with elite specialisations people were looking forward to playing, why are we being punished for buying what you sold us? Seems arbitrary and completely unneccessarily. We already have the mastery tracks we can spend our time working on, why time-gate the elite specs? I can not understand the decision making here. And especially not when it’s soulbound, it’s not even that it’s not “alt-friendly”, it’s extreme even two characters. Please fix this ASAP.

Ok, done some farming of hero points in WvW and here are the results:
- Time spent: 4h.
- Way spended: Pure PvD optimized farming (karma train, killing all guards, trying always to get catas or rams…).
- Bonus: I have the celebration bonus which gives +100% WvW experience.
- Hero points gained: 41.

Doing maths, I should need 80h per character of pure PvD farming, or 40h with WvW experience boost.

I need to get, at least, 2 full elite specializations, which will require more than 80h of pure farming (since I only have 3 celebration boosters). I’ve played about 2500h since the game started, so I need to spend nearly 4% of the time I’ve spent in this game in intensive PvD farming to be able to use skills and traits.

This is blatantly ridiculous and there’s no way this can be considered character progression.

Put up a 400 hero point pack in the cash shop and be done with it, thanks.

The saddest thing of all is that many of the elite specs aren’t worth the trouble. For the amount of time & effort required they should be total game changers, but unless you’re a Necro, Mesmer or Revenant, they’re more of a novelty than a necessity.

Gaile Gray.6029:

DarcShriek.5829:

The mastery system as only been available for 15 hours. Your complaining about it being forever is just pure over dramatization. Congratulations on being awarded the William Shatner award for dramatic excellence.

First, thank you for saying, in your first sentence, my very thoughts: “It’s been less than 16 hours, and that’s ’forever?” Secondly, thanks for a smile. I’d love to see the statue that goes with that award.

Thanks for poking your head into the storm while other devs have been hiding away, hopefully they are busy trying to provide reasonable solutions to this problem to folks that do not enjoy map completion

I really just hope you guys aren’t discounting the concerns of a large amount of players, such as pvpers, wvwers, fractals and dungeon runners,I for one do not like being forced out of the content I enjoy to get what I payed for.

I deem the 400 Hero Points requirement to be an artificial time gate for no reason.
The elite specs which gives some fresh and fun approach to the professions that I haven’t found suitable for me to play was one of several reasons I bought HoT and wanted to play it. So my problem is not that it will take (a lot of) time to get there, but that I will have to do so by playing specs that I don’t like on some characters.
It basicly means that I have to play the way I dont like so one day I could play the way I like.
And there’s no any way around this. I can’t play the characters that I like to get those Hero Points for my other characters. I can’t get the Points via sPvP. I just forced to grind. Grind for gameplay.
I think such implementation is terribly wrong and disrespectful.

i prefer pvd farming eotm over “exploring” the new maps.

Gaile Gray.6029:

DarcShriek.5829:

The mastery system as only been available for 15 hours. Your complaining about it being forever is just pure over dramatization. Congratulations on being awarded the William Shatner award for dramatic excellence.

First, thank you for saying, in your first sentence, my very thoughts: “It’s been less than 16 hours, and that’s ’forever?” Secondly, thanks for a smile. I’d love to see the statue that goes with that award.

Wow. so basically the official word is that the many many pages of people who are complaining about this should just shut up? Also confirming that people who have played for 16 hrs still shouldn’t have their elites unlocked? Well that just kittens me off.

400 sps is really a ridiculous amount. even in pve you will need to do all or nearly all the challenges to play the elite spec. So you need to finish hot before your able to play the new thing.

and in wvw you only get 2-3 or so of the proof of heroics per wvw and you need 400.. so thats about 200 wvw levels per character that you want to unlock the elite spec on.

what happened to their no grind policy?

Gaile Gray.6029:

First, thank you for saying, in your first sentence, my very thoughts: “It’s been less than 16 hours, and that’s ’forever?” Secondly, thanks for a smile. I’d love to see the statue that goes with that award.

First, nice to actually see an Anet comment in a thread, secondly , pity you only replied to one of the few people agreeing with you and ignored all the other comments and complaints about your new terribly thought out grind system.

Also very nice to see your lack of respect to those customers with complaints

Gaile Gray.6029:

DarcShriek.5829:

The mastery system as only been available for 15 hours. Your complaining about it being forever is just pure over dramatization. Congratulations on being awarded the William Shatner award for dramatic excellence.

First, thank you for saying, in your first sentence, my very thoughts: “It’s been less than 16 hours, and that’s ’forever?” Secondly, thanks for a smile. I’d love to see the statue that goes with that award.

Wow. Just wow.

First someone from aNet FINALLY comments about the grind problem with hero points after THOUSANDS of posts complaining about it, but not only do you NOT even address the problem, you actively encourage verbally putting down players that are voicing their opinions using hyperbole to make their point.

Wow. I can’t even. I’m Disgusted with that comment Gaile.

Cerpin.9152:

phys.7689:

Cerpin.9152:

I got 83% of my elite spec done just by superficially exploring all the maps…
Just saying.

It’s not that bad. Try playing the game.

by playing the game you mean

try exploring the map and repeating events.
also im guessing 50% of that was from previous tyria hero points.

Yes, I explored the maps and I got my previous points done in advance. So? Thats what it means “playing the game”.
Is “playing the game” to you: “I log in and I’m done” ?

There isn’t much repeating events required to get that far. Some heropoints are gated behind masteries. Big deal. Some more reason to play the game and get more involved in the new content.

before, playing the game was, dungeons, fractals, eotm wvw,

now its only map exploration.
what a contraction.

and not everyone likes event spam to progress

the key mistake is thinking thats what everyone who bought hot was buying it for.

like i said, if you like map exploration and repeating events, hot will be awesome.

If you didnt like that stuff, or dont like these specific maps, hot will be very not awesome

Gaile Gray.6029:

DarcShriek.5829:

The mastery system as only been available for 15 hours. Your complaining about it being forever is just pure over dramatization. Congratulations on being awarded the William Shatner award for dramatic excellence.

First, thank you for saying, in your first sentence, my very thoughts: “It’s been less than 16 hours, and that’s ’forever?” Secondly, thanks for a smile. I’d love to see the statue that goes with that award.

Well with common sense, a major marketing and selling feature that is not available when you buy something feels out of place.

Legendaries we knew it would be a long process, same goes for masteries and even map exploration, elite specs had to be unlocked but i think everyone expected the 60 Hp line cost like any others, regular an expected stuff.

Now 400, even you have to admit this is out of proportion compared to everything else, specially when the means to get it are so hard to have access to, this is specially true for the Revenant since you have locking 20% of the profession assets behind other things.

Make the elites pecs like the est at 60 HP to unlock, keep the HoT heros challenges at 10 because they are much harder to get than the core game ones and this is a healthy compromise for everyone.

Cerpin.9152:

I got 83% of my elite spec done just by superficially exploring all the maps…
Just saying.

It’s not that bad. Try playing the game.

by playing the game you mean

try exploring the map and repeating events.
also im guessing 50% of that was from previous tyria hero points.

Just 40 HoT heropoints they said…. You’ll be done in no time, they said….

Honestly, I think people are just upset because they wanted the elite specs on day one. Having to go through walls to get them does feel a bit odd, as far as expansions and new specializations usually go. I can’t deny that.

I just wish they were account unlock. I don’t look forward to unlocking them on every single class… and I have… every… single… class.

Amaya.1483:

This is an MMO, please take your time to accomplish something or you are probably better of in a differen genre.

You’re about several years too late with that sort of attitude. The genre has changed.

Elite specs were a feature overly used to sell the expansion and when its out we cant use them at all.

People have the right to be frustrated, if it was unlocking the line like any other with the same cost in HP but you have to exclusiveley used the one in HoT would have been much easier to digest, after 6 challenges here you go, you have your Elites spec and would be totally possible with 8+ alts characters.

400 points is ridiculous and they lock one of the major selling feature behind a grind wall to ensure artificial replay ability.

They f***ed up on that one, massively.

roguenub.1409:

It seriously does not take that long.

Says the person who started HoT with a character with 200+ hero points. If you are starting with that going into HoT and you have unlocked all utility skills and trait lines on your main already then no “it seriously doesn’t take that long” to go to 400 points.

If however you have not got map competition (all hero points in core game) unlocked then it’s going to take a ridiculously long time. There are three large maps in HoT. The first one only offers 11 hero challenges (110 of the 400 points you’ll need). As implemented the unlock Elite Specialization mechanic rewards playing who specifically decided to go after hero point challenges/map competition and allows them to apply the award from that effort (unused hero points) to the Elite Spec. That’s not good design. GW2 has also held to being “the casual players MMO” given the group of GW1 players who went after map competition 50% of the Elite Specialization unlock is not right. Even players who have map competition on their main are upset over this requirement for their alts.

The big difference between Elite Spec progression and the core game progression is that in the core game it made sense to unlock utility skills over time. Your character is not yet level 80. You weren’t in level 80 zones. In HoT your Elite Specialization is useless with the 60 hero point unlock. You can equipt your new weapon and you have access to the play mechanics but with 200+ more points to max the trait line, the Elite Spec is useless to you in level 80 zones and the utilities are also locked. So coming into HoT without map competition you’re going to be 70%+ into the HoT content and done with the first two maps before you can begin using the Elite Specialization. So you’re wrong for many it actually REALLY DOES TAKE A LONG TIME

I don’t have the TIME to spend going after all these HPs. I have a LIFE outside of this game. I spent my £35 expecting to be able to play my new Espec within a reasonable amount of time. This is just completely eye-watering, mind-numbing grind, nothing more.

To get the 10-pointers in the jungle you have to faff about for ages trying to work out where they are, only to realise that you have to spend another age trying to level up to get the god kitten mastery that you need to access the HP. This is truly frustrating.

Why couldn’t it have been 200 HPs? That would have been so much more reasonable kitten .

I love how Anet is actively answering other threads but still they are deliberately deciding to ignore this one. Putting specializations behind a grind wall is pretty sad but Anet being not willing to give an answer to the community is even worse. Just give us a currency sink (badges, karma and so on) to get hero points and the problem is solved. Easy as that.

As a WvW player who has 12 or so level 80 characters, 3 had 100-200 pts and the rest with 0-20.

400 pts for each and every one? kitten that, I don’t expect kitten to be handed to me on a plate but if you think i’m gonna bother doing 40 odd missions 10 times just to have the specs i bought this frigging expansion for then you’re insane.

All this new grind philosophy is going to do is make me main 2 or so characters and let the others fade. Utter horsekitten

Just wanted to say… Another game having an even worse grind does not make this one any better… I don’t purchase a product for it to be “less terrible” in certain areas, such as grinding. I buy it because I want it to be better than what its competitors can offer.

Also, you have people literally going afk in CoF with the mouse button tapped down. You lock so much important stuff behind masteries and a lot of people feel like doing stuff like fractals, etc, is pointless without having all the bonuses and collections linked to it.

MHCerberus.1385:

So optional grinding is fine, but when they give you mandatory grind and story gating you complain?

Adjusted to fit the current situation more accurately.

Another important difference is that the SW grind is repeatable, it stays rewarding forever. Not so much with mastery/hero points. No one is going to farm a hero point. Once most people are done with the new maps new players are going to be screwed.

not sure what is more pathetic, the game being dead 3 days after expansion release or ANet defence force shilling on forums in their free time, doing it for free

Coulter.2315:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

Doam.8305:

Gw2 at least had hearts

How can you complain about “grind” and then cite the most grindy part of the game as a positive….

Is everyone else using a different definition of “grind” and I missed the memo?

At least the hearts could be solo’d at your own pace..

Are you having trouble asking map chat to help at heropoints? Are you having difficulty killing the mobs? Are you having difficulty doing the story? Help me out here.

You’ll be doing everything at your own pace, its hard to steal someone elses.

People don’t always come and help no. I’m dependent on other people willing to come and help, and some of the hero point encounters are even timed. Maybe it will be easier when I start using other classes, but on my tempest it has been hell.

Oh just ask for help and if no one replies move on and come back later (assuming you can’t do it solo). The content is very much more a group effort, communicate with the map and it really opens up a fun atmosphere – we just completed the Tarir meta event with map chat communication.

If you don’t feel like chatting to people you can just solo explore and enjoy the scenery or have smaller impacts – I went and used my Alacrity to help a few people to the poisoned food hero point and used portal to help a few folk.

Or I should just be able to enjoy the game as I have always been able to enjoy it?

The way the game was advertised to begin with?
From the FAQ when gw2 came out:

Will Guild Wars 2 be solo-able?
Yes. You will be able to advance your character to the maximum level without ever joining a group, if you so desire. Most content will be designed in a solo-friendly way, though often with mechanisms for scaling up in difficulty when more players are involved. This will give players the option to experience the game however they prefer.