Guild Wars 2

Oh? New weapon + a handful of new skills = elite thus should have astronomical costs? As pretty as the maps are, the expansion largely comes down to hopping around on platforms with pretty much the same skills and weapons you had three years ago to stack up the XP in specific zones so you can keep hopping around on platforms in said zones, hoping and praying that you can interact with something that may or may not be out of reach. It’s great, provided that you like hopping around on platforms and hoping and praying. For me that’s just stretching content with time gated features.

1) But I and many people paid precisely to do that.
2) But I paid real money for it.
3) But I want to complete the maps with the elite spec. What should I do once I have it fully unlocked? Stand around and not caring for anything because I already did it?
4) The new content is designed to be harder than the core game, so switching a barely useful traitline with one that is not only fully leveled but also complementing my current build and available skills is nonsense. Of course people can technically use them, but you could also technically walk to work instead of drinving your car.
5) That point I do not even care about.

It is a problem: people want to play the new classes, but instead of being able to do that and concentrate on the fun aspects of the game (story, new maps, events) they are forced to rush through, ruining every bit of exploration and immersion. I never expected to have my elite spec unlocked instantly, but through some kind of story or sidequest near the beginning of the new content. Needing 400 hero points, with 60 of them only just unlocking the ability to use a new weapon, is just to kitten much for something I and many other people paid 50 bucks to play as.

They are just called “elite”. There is nothing elite about them. They are on par with any other profession. This isn’t character progression at all. Using the word “elite” gives the illusion that you are working for something that will better you character. These elite traitlines and utilities should cost the same as normal traitlines and utilities.

KDRG Monster.2873:

Its bullkitten that we need to waste so much hero points on all the mastery’s JUST so that we can unlock the elite for 60 points, and then another 400 to complete it, kittening bull.

Agreed. I am just hiding in the boards until they fix the problem.

I hope Anet learns how much money they just gave away.

I re-installed the demon game that stole a large chunk of everyone’s like (World of Warcraft). It was all over map chat that people just bought the most recent expansion so they could hunker down while Anet decides how long it’s gonna take them to stop being d-wads. That’s a lot of $70 donations to King Blizzard that could have gone Anets way. And it’s probably not just Blizzard reaping the benefits; plenty of other fun games to try out there too. Wildstar is free now too. Pretty much the perfect time to try other games, IMO.

Also, what about the horrid first day gem store items? There were like 2 things to buy, and both sucked. I got the combo pack with the outfit, glider skin, and whatever else it had (if anything? it turned out so lame I don’t even remember).

All they had to do was give up the elite specialization traits, make some half-decent attempt at the gem store, and they’d have had at least $70 from me and the 20+ people I personally saw (which means there are probably hundreds more), just on that server, complaining about it. Really, how god awful a job do you have to do to get people to uninstall your game and play WoW again? The elite specialization problem should have been fixed day 1.

Oh well, back to playing the warlock.

63 pages……this needs fixed prettt badly.

Again anet, simply adding the option to a vendor to trade spirit shards for HP would work

Lets get a response acknowledging this problem. No one likes it. We are only talking about ONE thing here in this thread and that’s Elite Specializations. No need to sugar coat it with the feedback is positive for HoT. Maybe that’s true, but the Elite Specializations aren’t.

As with many others have expressed I’m a little disappointed with how long it takes to fully unlock the elite specialization via hero points.

It seems super counter productive to give us these new class specializations only after we have played through all the PvE content. I don’t feel it is entitled or an unreasonable statement when I say I would be having a lot more fun right now if I were playing the elite specialization, while at the same time enjoying the new story.

This is expansion is the single most restrictive content you have ever put in the game and it does the game as a whole a huge disservice.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Now that I’ve spent 20 hours grinding out my first elite spec, this makes me wonder quite a bit about something: future content.

Currently, most of the hero points spawn a champion + adds, many of which are not the same pushovers they once were. This is fine, assuming that there are other players who are around to help you. But even by yourself, you’ll encounter champions with waves of adds.

Problem is, most of the HoT maps I play are already nearly a ghost town. Send out the call for help, and you’ll get 1 or 2 people in the space of 10 minutes if you’re lucky. After discovering this fact, I had to resolve to burn through all the specialization points before the maps became too dead to function.

It is also annoying how much of the map specific features are dependent on ill-timed global events. Especially when they lock away hero points behind them. Heck, the only reason why I was able to do an e-spec in 20 hours is because someone else made a guide on how to do it, and I got lucky and had a somewhat coordinated hero-point train running map at one point.

I feel bad for anyone who tries to get these points in a few months.

Now that I’ve spent 20 hours grinding out my first elite spec, this makes me wonder quite a bit about something: future content.

Currently, most of the hero points spawn a champion + adds, many of which are not the same pushovers they once were. This is fine, assuming that there are other players who are around to help you. But even by yourself, you’ll encounter champions with waves of adds.

Problem is, most of the HoT maps I play are already nearly a ghost town. Send out the call for help, and you’ll get 1 or 2 people in the space of 10 minutes if you’re lucky. After discovering this fact, I had to resolve to burn through all the specialization points before the maps became too dead to function.

It is also annoying how much of the map specific features are dependent on ill-timed global events. Especially when they lock away hero points behind them. Heck, the only reason why I was able to do an e-spec in 20 hours is because someone else made a guide on how to do it, and I got lucky and had a somewhat coordinated hero-point train running map at one point.

This has been said, but I want to repeat it.

The “Elite” specialties are not giving extra powers or ground breaking abilities. It’s simply a 6th (you have 5 already) trait line that allows you to play a class a different way.

I was fine with having to play HoT to advance and gain traits and skills. The idea that the player gains these skills with experience in the new area; is great for RP and actually a nice dovetail with the story mechanics.

That said…having to kill champs to get them is simply asinine. Asking us to use skill to get them; I am fine with that. Do jumping puzzles, riddles, a balanced one on one fight with an enemy that is skilled. Putting some massive hitpoints and one shot killer in the mix is just sloppy game structure.

Also the number is too kitten high for a 6th trait line. 270 pts would have been fine. Yes, power grinders would have gotten them unlocked on the first day….. so what!?

Oh no, they can use the Reaper elite….is it any more powerful than Lich form? Does giving a warrior I’ve played since August 2012 some torch traits 24 hours after release; really affect my or anyone else’s quality of play in a negative light?

Most of us who really love this game, have 8 (now 9) characters. You are going to make us jump through all the hoops 9 times?
I’ve put my fist through someone’s face for less insult than that; and ANet wants to treat their most loyal customers like that?

Please, fix this fiasco. Let’s face it; the only reason this hasn’t turned off your playerbase completely is a lack of competition.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

End of Monday now. Thoughts/feedback from Anet? It’s all well and good for us to keep discussing these things, but the most effective way for us to discuss this would be to know where Anet is thinking of going with it. What ideas are you considering, because we can tell you right now whether or not some of them will be good. What ideas will you be completely ignoring? Are you even talking about it? Is the discussion soon? I’d imagine that it’d come soon (as in, if I were an employee monitoring the forums, the outcry would make me want the meeting to have been earlier today).

Also think that updating the community on what is being changed would be a great way to dissuade hasty decisions from those thinking of throwing in the towel, leaving poor reviews, etc.

Just keep us updated. We’ll enjoy that. If you’re thinking that it’s never going to happen, let us know (so that I can just return to playing WoW). If you’re thinking it’ll happen in a few weeks, let us know what we need to prepare on our alts to get a head start. Just let us know.

Most of this expansion is awesome.

However the way to get the new Specialisations is simply AWEFULL!

I hate it so much that every time I try to get some new points for my Revenant I log of after 10 minutes of failed attempts to get some new hero points in the HOT maps.

Then I think that I would like to have all my 9 Character Classes with their Elite spec… it saps all the fun out of playing the game. Knowing that I will have to grind for hours and hours and hours on just the same spots to get them.

If I could complete 3 fractals for 10 skill points. Do 1-2 hours of WvW for 10 skill points or do 1-2 hours of pvp for 10 skill points. Sure it would still take quite a while to unlock. But at least I could have FUN doing it.

The current system is simply NOT fun! There is no fun in doing the same hero challenges over and over and over again and no real other choice (ok there is mindless wvw grinding but thats so slow and I personally do not like wvw at all so meh only choice is to grind hero challenges)

Where the Mastery System is how a good new mechanic should be implemented (account bound). The Elite Spec aquiring mechanic is the polar opposite, it hurts more with every extra character.

This may get lost in the flood, but I am leaving my feedback here:

If the elite specializations, defined as the set of skills and traits, are equitable with other, core, skills and traits, then I would expect the cost both in time spent and in hero points to be equitable.

If the cost in both time and hero points is disproportionally higher, then I would expect that the elite specializations would provide a comparably disproportionate advantage over the core skills and traits.

I am ok with balanced elite specializations at an equitable cost.
I am also ok with unbalanced, advantageous elite specializations, at a higher cost.

I am not ok with balanced elite specializations at an arbitrarily higher cost.

The more I think about it, giving 200 hero points for map completion and ONLY for map completion is a pretty cruel thing for Anet to do. Basically it says we only respect the accomplishments of pve’ers. It’s kinda like a parent telling one child he/she is the favorite in front of the other 2. After maxing all my wvw masteries, I now have almost 400 unused wvw rank points and those are all meaningless. If Anet really wanted to be completely fair, they would have allowed map completion, wvw rank, and spvp rank to all weigh equally in the equation to determine starting hero points. And why we’re on the subject, why map completion by character? For all the things that we do in the game in the various aspects of pve content, be it map completion, dungeons, fractals, living story, personal story, etc., why did they land on map completion as the standard for game “success?” Mindlessly running from POI to vista to heart for 50 hours per character is the thing we should be most rewarded for? Really? That’s the pinnacle of achievement in this game? SERIOUSLY? It sounds pretty kittening dumb when you say it out loud, don’t you think?

The elite specs DO take 20-25 hours on average. That is not an opinion, that is a statement backed up by the 60+ page mega thread that I’m confident you avoid.

I don’t want rush new maps for HP to be able to be able play how I want , I want to slowly explore new maps and story, fractals , mastery, www with new specs, but with needed numbers of HP, elite specs (that were the first “point of interest” in addon) is become closed for me for veeery long time with my play style, and I’m not even talk about that I have 9 tunes, so it become even more pain…

Saying herald takes 2 hours to unlock is stating a fact, not an opinion. Learn the difference. Let’s make this fun, here’s a challenge for you. Level a brand new revenant to 80 without gaining any map hero points. Recording a video of you, at level 80, with 0 hero points, and go unlock your entire herald spec in 120 minutes or less. If you do this, I will buy you a legendary of your choice (besides eternity). Let me break this down a bit for you, wouldn’t want you to strain yourself.

This means that you will need 40 hero points in the jungle. Each point can take you no less than 3 minutes. This includes travel time. Some of those hero points are a simple “channel to acquire”. The vast majority are champion monsters that require 5+ people. Come prepared.

Each map only has 3-5 points that can be achieved without mysteries. Lucky for you, I am SO confident that you can’t do this, I’ll let you do this with what you have unlocked already. Since you’ve already done a full 400 hero points on one revenant, I will assume this means you have ALL mastery tracks unlocked. Yay!

Go ahead and do this today or tomorrow. Since it’s only 2 hours, it shouldn’t be a problem to have done in the next 48 hours. I only challenge you with all of this since you are SO KEEN at proving people wrong.

i dont see how people are calling me “wrong”

there is no right or wrong, i personally dont find the current set up of elite unlocks acceptable. i wont play the game or invest money into unless its changed. if its not ill move on.

where is the argument in this? are you going to make purchases in my name? log into my account from my ip and play? no? then i guess im not wrong about anything.

having said that i will monitor and hope for the best until something comes along to fill the void left by losing GW2 as a main source of entertainment.

I’m glad there is acknowledgement that there is quite a deep split in the feedback they are seeing. For the first time ever I feel somewhat slighted, I will use that lightly because in part a little bit of research on my part could have saved me money, and ANET a player who would ultimately lead to negative feedback. All this expansion has done for me is make it ever more apparent that this game is not going to cater to my play style, which is very much a casual one. I have 2 80s one that’s cleared maybe 60% of the world, and another that’s done even less. I enjoy doing world bosses, dungeons, and the occasional fractal. I do not have either character in full ascended gear, not even close. The thing I first enjoyed about this game was that there was never really any gated content, fractals being the first, but that was a separate part of the game almost entirely so I never felt the push.

I left the game with my guild because they wanted no part in the fractal, gated content progression they were seeing. I heard about the expansion and remembered all the freedom of specs, content and progression and decided to come back. I was a bit surprised how much had changed, so much so that even the guides were confusing because a lot of the UI had changed. I was having a great time up until the expansion, doing my typical casual things, a few world bosses, knock out some dailies, and maybe a dungeon or fractals. All this time still trying to learn the meta, find what my focus needs to be to get to ascended etc etc. I’m only casual in a since of the time I can put in game. I can spend quite a bit outside learning what I need to do to be competitive if need be. I consider myself a skillful player, just don’t have much time.

Now that you have a jumbled rundown of where I am here’s my first few hours in the expansion. Keep in mind, I’m going in completely blind, no betas, no review, I wanted a true first time experience . “I expected the core principles to stay the same after all.” Hop through the first bit of the story, journey to a few waypoints. Wow this zone is a giant maze, that’s ok I can get used to that. Wow, all these mobs require a group, no problem I have a guild, and there are plenty of players about. I see some nodes that give Heroes/masteries forgive me if I butcher this part, as I didn’t quite memorize all the new terms. It spawned a hero mob and just destroyed me, and there was nobody around to even do it for quite some time. As Sunday rolled around there was even less around me in the beginning instances, and a lot of stuff required masteries that I did not have. I can’t even try out the new elite builds until I finish. So now I’m stuck.. I ended up spending the rest of the evening playing a new revenant until about level 30, completing all the map mind you.. Because that seems to be almost a requirement now for the 200 extra hero points..

What the heck ANET, has all the founding principles been abandoned at this point? Can some veterans that stuck around fill me in? I feel completely lost as a returning player. There is so many different types of currency now, so many skills/masteries buried underneath gated content. Now there is ascended gear, weapons, and even the crafting us bumped up 100 more points.. There is literally so much added grind now I could literally never experience the new content I have payed for up until this point..

My current suggested fix after a weekend of playing.

Elite specialization should cost nothing, they should simply be granted by having bought HoT and being level eighty.

Instead change the Hero points into once per character EXP bursts, giving more EXP the less solo friendly and more mastery locked the hero point is.

This means people can enjoy HoT with the new class functionality, and keeps hero points as something to do, while also lessening the grindy nature of masteries

FinalPatriot.8034:

I took a look at Metacritic a few moments ago and the expansion is only scoring at 6.9 right now. That’s pretty darn sad as GW2 was the best MMO on the market for years. I hate seeing the HP issue tearing down such a good game.

I wish Anet would fix this and turn the expansion back to the core game of no grinding/casual friendly.

It is pretty silly because the HP issue is probably the only thing holding back that rating from being through the roof right now.

OP, let them be Anet white knights all they want to. It’s still early into the xpac. They don’t have the foresight any intelligent person would have to know how horrible it’s going to be when you’re on you 5th toon trying to unlock your elite spec. Once they finally get around to that point, they’ll see the light. The grind will finally have worn away their fanboy attitude and they’ll understand what we, and the THREE THOUSAND other angry posters are talking about (reference; see the mega thread). Each elite spec takes an average of 20-25 hours to unlock. I have 11 toons. So kindly, go kitten yourself if you think it’s entitled or whining for wanting elite specs at a lower rate.

Taarak.7562:

I’m very disappointed with the criticism. I’m sorry, but to be brutally honest, it sounds like a bunch of millennial whining. They’re not getting their trophy after playing a whole weekend…

Nah, if anything, we’re Generation X whiners, who are too old and too time-committed to do non-sensical grinds. Yeah this is an MMO, but this is an MMO that promised to remove the grind.

Tell me, what’s the point of locking elite specializations under 400 points? Are they more powerful than other specs? After playing them for three weekends, I can safely say no. Is it to make it a trophy? Perhaps, but why take something many people expected to be more readily available, and at the last minute lock it behind a big grind-wall?

Is it to space content out? You’re never going to stop the devoted from burning through content it took two years to design and make. Even now, there are people who already maxed and elite spec, and there are people who got to Mordremoth. In three days!

The point is, there are people who did it, and they’re the ones who like to talk trash to the other people who help fund the game. However, I guarantee you the people with less time spend just as much money or more on the game, and there’s a lot more of us. I got no problem with a climbing a small mountain, just let me know it before I buy into it.

Like I said, it’s a matter of degree – 400 HP is to keep the relatively small amount of guys who already had 200 HP in the bank, from their 100% map reveals, from being fully loaded before the weekend was out. For the rest of us who play casually, that is a kitten big number, especially when you have an alt for every class.

If HP were like Masteries, I’d have no problem with that. 400×1 is way better than 400×9. I mean what’s the problem? If I played one as as Ele, and got another as a Druid, does it really matter? Far less I think, than running with the Zerg train all weekend long, and then laughing at the people who had real lives.

I think there are two major flaws to most of the arguments that contend that the system is fine as it is.

First, I don’t think you can call new “Elite specs” content. They are an expansion of game mechanics. If the new specs are content, then so is the new class and that should have been gated too. Additionally, I think they are poorly named. Elite specs are not supposed to be more powerful than the existing trait lines, so why are they priced at more than four times the cost of the others?

The second major flaw is calling anything in a video game “work”, unless using that term in the loosest sense. It is time spent, not work that determines how quickly you can progress. There is no skill in zerging events or grinding xp, and sitting in front of a monitor PLAYING a game is not work. If you want to know what work is, my parents still own the farm I grew up on, come on out and I’ll give you a lesson.

Now, if you enjoy spending that amount of time playing and can dedicate the hours required, great! I’m not out to belittle people who can, and in some ways I’m envious. I played SWG like it was my second job for years and had a blast until the NGE. But I think gating mechanics behind any kind of a time sink is the wrong way to go. Most people just don’t have that kind of time to dedicate to a game. Masteries where advertised as progression, but I don’t recall ever seeing that new class mechanics would be gated behind them. I really don’t like that I have less access to what where implied (in my opinion) to be an expansion to mechanics (not a form of progression horizontal or otherwise) than the person with extensive free time. I have responsibilities, if that means that i have to consume content a a slower pace I have no issues with that, but don’t take my money and gate mechanics behind a time sink.

Sorry OP, but this is the point that the “caring” rabid community they brag so much about tells you not to let the door hit you. Or worse.

Count me among the dissatisfied with how the Elite Spec was delivered. I was a Dragonhunter for all of 5 minutes before I realized how limited I was in lvl 80 areas without three fully fleshed-out Specs. Better to keep three full “non-elite” Specs than limp along with two full and one half-full “elite.” I don’t plan to enable Dragonhunter until it’s full, which is a shame.

I have no problem earning the full Spec, but by then I’ll probably be done with HoT. Was that really A-Net’s intent? I doubt it. Not sure they thought this one out.

Otherwise, very happy with the expansion. Great game.

Actually the simplest solution would be to make elite traitlines and utilities cost the same as normal traitlines and utilities. After all, there is nothing elite about these specs as they are on par with the normal professions.

It was totally a downer for me that I need to unlock elite specs, worsened by my lack of time and the fact that I like WvW, where I cant unlock them.

Arnath.2319:

No one complained when they were unlocking their character from lvl 1-80. Why should elite specs be different?

I have yet to see a single logical reason why things should be changed. All i am seeing is a mob of angry spoiled children with a mob like mentality because everything isn’t handed to them for free within the first few days of launch… over a weekend… that the devs are working overtime to keep the servers stable, how selfish and impatience can you people be?

Go play the game, even the most casual of all casual players can easily unlock the full elite spec in as little as week, i’m a casual player and i have already unlocked everything, it is super mega easy, almost too easy!

It’s really not hard to see, and has already been explained in great detail numerous times:

• Leveling from 1-80 improves your character. As you “grow” you gain access to more traits, abilities, and options for how you want to play. This makes sense.
• Leveling an elite spec is a conundrum that conflicts with the pre-existing game. Elite specs, by their nature and stated design intent, aren’t “more powerful” than core specs, they’re just “different” and meant to be alternatives, not upgrades.
• Fully unlocking an elite spec requires an absurd amount of Hero Challenges. Even at 100% map completion for the core game, a player has to consume or “spoil” a large portion of HoT’s content just to fully unlock the spec. Characters without 100% map completion are looking at potentially consuming or “spoiling” all of HoT’s world content just to fully unlock the spec.
• Choosing to equip an elite spec before the line is nearly filled out means using an “incomplete” build. You are effectively “de-leveling” your character just to experience the content with the new playstyle. This does not make sense.
• The other option is to not slot your elite spec at all until you have at least one grandmaster trait unlocked (which is near the end of the line) and play through the bulk of HoT’s world content as an old, but fully-functional spec and then get the “alternative playstyle” as an end-of-game reward. Again, this does not make sense.

Playing an elite specialization currently requires “settling” and intentionally downgrading your character by using an incomplete trait and skill line, or waiting until you’ve cleared most of HoT’s world content and the elite is sufficiently unlocked so that its performance is on par with your old builds. It’s a choice players simply shouldn’t have to make. ESpecs, even if not “fully unlocked” should be functional out of the gate. The initial 60-point buy should give you at least all of your minor traits, and one adept, master, and grandmaster trait, so that your character is on roughly even footing with preexisting builds. Further unlocks should allow you more customization in the form of your other traits, and your utility, heal, and elite skills. The overall cost is absurdly high, as well, and should be reduced, but at the bare minimum 60 points needs to get you ‘competitive’ if not fully optimized for your particular build.

Moreover, all of the functionality of this Hero Challenge system was hidden from the players during 95% of the game’s pre-purchase period, and only sprung on us immediately before launch. Not only is the system a mess, the way it was obfuscated was also a mess. The time for discussion and debate was before HoT went live, not after it’s been live for X length of time even if X is “only” 3 days. It feels unfair to many players, and feels almost entirely untested.

Based on Colin’s comment that “the people currently grinding are enjoying the grind because if they’re doing it, they must be enjoying it” I think the grind is here to stay, won’t be changed, and HoT is never going to be the refreshing, fun new thing that I was super-excited for and will actually drive me away from the game after I burn out on the Hero Point grind on 1-2 characters. His post just feels so back-handed, even if it wasn’t his intent. It reads as if “Yeah, we know a lot of you are upset, but our metrics show people in-game, so we don’t care if you are upset. We’ll ‘talk’ about it in the future, but nothing’s going to change.”

Blizzard did this with their Warlords of Draenor expansion for World of Warcraft. There were complaints about arduous, time-gated, and boring game systems as well as complaints about cut or delayed content and alt-unfriendliness everywhere. But, the hype train was rolling, sub numbers were up for launch, and Blizzard ignored the complaints. Six months later, the game had lost nearly half of its subscribers, and player retention was at the worst point it had seen in literally a decade.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate everything; There are aspects of HoT that are great. The music is amazing. The environments are beautiful. Some of the elite specs I played during BWE were absolutely awesome, and really felt like evolutions of the ‘actiony’ playstyle of the game without necessarily being mathematically better than their core classes.

Problem is, it’s hard for me to enjoy any of the stuff I like about it, because I’m seeking out gated or group-required hero points, ignoring most of the overworld content, and occasionally chasing a zerg around EOTM (which is something I have no desire to do, I’m not a PVP-person) just to try to get to the point where I can enjoy Reaper without handicapping myself by using an incomplete build. I’ve sunk over 20 hours into my Reaper since HoT went live, and I still don’t have any master traits, let alone any grandmasters nor the elite shout I’ve been looking forward to. At my current rate of progress, it’s going to take me at least another 20 in-game hours, probably more as mastery gates more and more of the Hero Challenges I have left, to get to the point where I can play Reaper at the power level that I was formerly at on an old build before HoT even released. It’s not hard to see how stupid that is.

Dashingsteel.3410:

I guarantee you that one of their biggest selling points was not that the elite would cost 400 hero points. That little nugget of information was missing from all there presentations prior to release of the game. I wonder how many HoT prepurchases they would have lost had they informed their consumers.

They would have lost mine had I known the grindy design of the Elite specs. As it is, we haven’t upgraded two other accounts because of this issue. They make elite specs reasonable, I upgrade two more accounts.