Guild Wars 2

captaincrash.6528:

So you beat the base game and think you deserve all rewards in the expansion?

I think the problem people had is that they didn’t think of the elite spec as a “reward”—they thought of it as something their character was incomplete without. It felt like having to level up again, even though the level cap wasn’t increased. That’s why it chafed people so badly.

It shouldn’t be a challenge is the thing. It’s not elite only a name. It’s a new way to play. 400 HP for ONE traitline and 5 skills. There really is no reason it should cost more then any other traitline or skills

CuteLilKittenHugz.2064:

I really think you guys are so grateful for a change – any change – that you’re missing a few things that point to this not being much of a compromise.

1) Hero points are still account bound.
2) They are still gated behind some masteries.
3) You are still forced to spend Hero Points on ALL your skills and utilities before you can even unlock the elite spec.
4) The elite specs are all earned in a linear fashion – which means you MUST spend your hero points on traits AND SKILLS that you may never even use.

As it is, 250 HP is easier to swallow versus 400 HP, true…if you only have 1 or 2 alts to grind. But once you hit 4-5 alts and up… this is still a HUGE amount of grind.

It’s not. With a Dulfy guide (yay for Dulfy guides), you’ll be up and running in no time for 25 challenges.

Thank you ANet! I had nearly unlocked my Chronomancer and was put off unlocking my alts…but now, I can start to work on each one in turn. This is a great compromise.

CuteLilKittenHugz.2064:

Lynce.9560:

250 points is still a bit much if you consider alts, manageable for 1-2 characters, more than that and is still too daunting. ..

That’s exactly what I just posted on the thread Gaile started.

People are just so happy that they got a piece of cake, they haven’t noticed it really amounts to nothing more than a few crumbs of “compromise”.

I’ll take it, compromise is not a dirty word. Ultimately, it’s their game and they made it and they can do what they want with it. I happen to like the game very much, and I’m glad they considered our very different opinions enough to steer their ship more in our direction.

To be able to finish out the game as a Tempest or a Daredevil as opposed to an Ele or Rogue is a very good thing.

Am i ok to spend my hero points i have now, and i’ll gain the remainder needed to get the rest of the elite spec?

Or should i start saving them? I have no idea what to do, as a timeframe wasn’t given on when these changes would be implemented.

May i ask in what zone and whereabouts you found this guy? been trying to find him for my Scrapper? Would really appreciate if you could help a brother out

WE DID IT BOYS ,
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/heads-up-iteration-incoming/

Change coming per Colin, 400 down to 250 hero points. Thank you Anet!

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/heads-up-iteration-incoming/

captaincrash.6528:

Heart of Thorns is getting nerfed already? It was so nice having long term goals in the game, please don’t give in with absolutely everything. The elite specs were fine the way they were…

if you hate people who have alts, sure it was.

BrotherBelial.3094:

This is a good start, not just get rid of the masteries gating the story, and we can all be happy.

In the end, I think some level of mastery story-gating is necessary so that they can have us use masteries during story missions (especially gliding). They’re removing the worst one, at least.

“We’re going to update the elite specialization unlock to find a better middle ground by reducing the cost of unlocking every possible ability for an elite specialization from 400 hero points to 250 hero points total. This means you will be able to access them much earlier in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns PvE or World vs. World and fully unlock them much earlier as well. This also means you’ll be able to experience more of the expansion story as your elite specialization earlier on while still maintaining some of our core goal. This should also help players with lots of alts try out more of the elite specializations. If you’ve already put more than 250 points into your elite specialization, surplus hero points will be refunded to your character for future use.”

Thank you so much. 250 is a much more fair number. However I wish the 400 total remained for an awesome new title at 400, the weapon at 300, and the armor at 350.

jheryn.8390:

HtFde.3856:

And it doesn’t seem strange to you that they create a completely new machanism for HoT – one they completely forgot to mention while they touted out other things aloud?

[SNIP]

There – if they had done that I bet there’d be a lot less complaints – because it would have been with what GW 2 is instead creating a new, alien-feeling mechanism.

No, it doesn’t seem strange at all. There are a lot of things in HoT that are new. In fact, I WANT there to be new things. It is what keeps the game interesting.

As far as complaints. No there would not have been a lot less complaints. Look at any content that has been released. There has been nothing but a huge amount of complaints. No matter what Anet does, there are a ton of complaints. If people had not been complaining about this it would have been something else.

Completely untrue. As you can find easily in this thread, people praise many aspects of this (and other) releases. One very specific item (albeit a major one) has very many players unhappy.

I wouldn’t be here looking for a “fix” if I didn’t love the game.

My main concern with the new expansion is the vast amount of hero points that I would need for an elite spec. I was so excited when they released the details of the elite necro spec. Now I find out that I have nowhere close to the amount of hero points needed for it. I love edge of the mists and just WvW in general. I used to play it all the time. I only recently returned with the release of the expansion only to find that I will need endless hours of grinding to ever come close to unlocking everything in my elite spec. I also recently started a revenant and it’ll take a while to get to level 80, but getting 400 extra hero points for the elite spec? Forget it. I’m not a super dedicated player, and I understand that I’ll never have the best gear, but I think I should at least be able to have some fun with all the new abilities.

RedBaron.6058:

11:00 AM in Seattle. What is happening at ANet HQ?

Either:

(1) Meetings and brainstorming
(2) People still recovering from the weekend

or both.

Decisions will be slow in coming. Businesses do not make adjustments the same way
individuals do.

Can we just stop calling them "elite specs " FKS (for kittens sake)!

They are alternate play style, they are no more elite than any other extra trait line with a new weapon. Continuing to refer to them as elite is a misnomer and propagating the fact is just getting asinine at this point. Unlocking them should be an accomplishment yes, but no more so than unlocking your other trait lines/weapons/utilities IMO.

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

HtFde.3856:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

And to point to the mantra that you “can play how you want” – that was for the CORE game – which you still can – play how you want. This is an expansion pack, not core game.

Are you guessing or do you have written evidence that ANet decided to deviate from that philosophy in the expansion? I think I read pretty much all offical statements but I cannot recall they invalidated this philosophy for HoT.

(A) NPE was revoked
(B) Unless something is officially revoked it is safe to assume that was before will be now

Well … not so safe, it seems ^^

The invalidated this statement with the New Player Experience which changed the way the core game was released.
Do you have written evidence that they intended the new expansion to be soloable?

Sytherek.7689:

Skye.4983:

Hurry up Anet, time is running out. Either come out and say how you’re going to improve this mess or just tell everyone that isn’t singing your praises to go away. I will accept either outcome, but it would be nice to have some certainty. Original Sin Enhanced Edition is coming out in an hour and then Fallout 4 in two weeks, you’re going to have a hard time getting my attention after that.

They already got your money for HoT. Do they care if you stop playing?

I was spending 20-50 bucks in the TP every month. I’m not doing that now. That, they might notice, if people stop frequenting the cash store.

What Anet is failing to note is that gamers with money are older and have vastly more options in gaming. Delay leads to people finding other diversions.

Pretty much this. The primary market for gaming companies is no longer the kid, it is the 25-35 demographic that have jobs, families, responsibilities. We also have the money. Delays = we go somewhere else and don’t bother returning. Gamers have long memories when it comes to companies that break trust. The only way to earn that trust is to act quickly and decisively when players have a problem on such a scale.

Yes, this means you annoy the ones without the problem. As the only ones currently defending things are either groupers/zergers or are the hardcore crowd that definitely play far more than the manifesto and marketing targets.

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

And to point to the mantra that you “can play how you want” – that was for the CORE game – which you still can – play how you want. This is an expansion pack, not core game.

Are you guessing or do you have written evidence that ANet decided to deviate from that philosophy in the expansion? I think I read pretty much all offical statements but I cannot recall they invalidated this philosophy for HoT.

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

A lot of people seem to think that because you paid for the expansion you should get everything unlocked right away. You paid or the content, not the end result.

This is not true. Only a small handful of those complaining on the forums are asking for things to be unlocked right away. Please actually read the comments instead of skimming them. You won’t miss details like that anymore.

And if you do truly think a lot of people do, please post direct links to posts where those lots of people explicitly stated they wanted it right away. Because I’ve been following this thread since it started and I can count the number of posts asking for everything right away on one hand.

Most people posting are asking for some combination of:

1. Hero Points Reduced. And reduced does not mean removed.
2. Hero Challenges in Heart of Maguuma made soloable.
3. The timers removed on the Hero Challenges.
4. More ways to earn Hero Points
5. More Hero Points per WvW rank

And I don’t really see how any combination of those makes them want it right away.

HtFde.3856:

People (from my point of view rightly so) expected to be able to play their Chronomancer, Reaper, whatnot a few hours into the game and to enjoy HoT WITH the new elite spec. Instead they have to go through HoT with their old build do unlock the elite spec to then … er … have nothing really new to try it out with.

This is the biggest issue in my mind.

It’s the implementation at fault, more so with the BWE’s in that Anet gave everyone who pre-purchased the game an ice-cream, for one lick, then snatched it back. Most of the players I know who pre-purchased were licking their lips in anticipation, had their builds planned out, armor at the ready, all other goals finished ready to roll the new spec etc, etc.

Cue wet fart.

Anet should have disclosed how this would actually be implemented on release before giving the specs to the player so easily in the BWE’s. Many have said Anet don’t own the player a thing, it was the players fault for purchasing so early, but they should have never created and marketed a pre-purchase environment that was guaranteed to create mass resentment and disappointment. Players shouldn’t expect to be hustled by their game devs.

It’s also pretty deceptive to newer players. They have been ramming these specs down players throats marketing wise as a core part of HoT with very little mentioned in that you have to pretty much map the entire first game to access it.

It’s like taking a car for a test drive, the sales person describing all the cool features and shinies, loving it and buying it, to then be given the steering wheel and told “oh sorry…you’ll get the actual car in a few months….you gotta go work for that kitten”.

Who does that?lol

Bridger.9245:

Instead of unlocking in order from top to bottom, they should be unlocking left to right. 100 points should get you a “completed” trait line (with 6 more traits to unlock for more options) rather than 60 points for a worthless trait line and another 100+ points to get to the third tier of major traits.

I dig this idea, just to throw another solution from a different thread up.

Anyway I really do hope they at least address this issue with feedback at some stage soon, either way really just so players know if change is even a possibility, as I hate to think of the flow on effect if this is a major sore point for the gaming media and their reviews while it would also let players move on, either in this game or somewhere else.

Kulvar.1239:

“Hold a gun”.
You know you can just not play, or delay it, do Halloween instead, explore old content without rushing, or just enjoy reading books in Durmand Priory… ?
You know you can also just play HoT without doing CT challenges?
You know you can also not use elite specialisation?

You know that all these things can be done without buying HoT?

The justifications you white knights will put up are astonishing and appalling.

Tommyknocker.6089:

Page 65?

Could someone please tell me at what point in the new “forum mastery” line we will unlock the “dev response” trait?

Right?

If they don’t understand how fail this is yet, they don’t deserve to be in business.

We get it, you put the mastery system (also fail, read on) to gate things and force people to spend more time rather than make an expansion that is actually expansive. Would it really have been so hard to make 4-6 maps of shiverpeaks size? You know…legitimately large and expansive, allowing you to roam all over for hours? What we got were these small maps that are maze-like with multiple tiers that are gated behind masteries.

Masteries themselves are so full of fail, it SHOULD have been exactly like the sPvP reward tracks: you select your mastery and play ANYWHERE (including sPvP for that matter) and your experience gain goes into that mastery. Yes, frankly this means a lot of people would play in Tyria (better to make the f2p seem better as the maps would be populated making buying the full game seem like a better offer) as the event chains there are done better. The event chains in HoT are horribly done. Some of them have way that trolls can easily cause them to fail…and others require so many people that if the map zerg isn’t nearby you will fail regardless of how well you and your little group is personally doing. Of course this leads right into another huge fail…

Open world content is meant to be built, designed, and balanced for solo play. This means those hero challenges (should be renamed to heroes challenge as you aren’t doing them solo and thus makes them less heroic as a mob is not heroic) need down tuned, and much of the event chains need better scaling or the enemies themselves need down tuned for solo play. Group play has the epic event chains (ostly the last boss and the step before it), world bosses, dungeons, fractals, raids…wvw and high level sPvP. Frankly there is enough being balanced for pure group play.

The HP cost regarding elite specs…if after 65 pages people don’t get just how unhappy the consumers are…nothing will.
Mastery system and just good ole exploration is enough horizontal progression, elite specs should have been 85-ish to unlock full functionality and another 200ish for the unlocks of the skins and runes. You still would have to work for it but you could never call it a grind.

Too much to read..
But i want to show my thoughts on the amount of Hero Points needed for elite specs.

If HP was account bound, i would not mind the huge amount.

For me its too much work per character just to unlock the specc you wanna play in the new maps etc..

So my suggestion, account bound Hp challenges in HoT.
Or Reduce the amount you need to unlock the full Elite, like total of 150-200 instead of 400.

Just my opinion. Ty.

I just want to know where and what rock Mike O’Brien’s been hiding under during all of this and what he has to say about it(HoT) and for himself. He’s been markedly quiet/absent during this whole situation. It’s his company, his game, and his manifesto, after all.

He convinced quite a few disaffected players to pull up stakes and leave their games to come to this one, yet he’s not even posted to explain why GW2 has suddenly taken this turn away from his statement.

He needs to explain. You don’t get to badmouth -even indirectly- your competitors products only to end up emulating them without taking some sort of flak for doing it.

Will he risk being pilloried coming out and posting a statement? Perhaps. But that’s the cost of being foolish enough to issue such a manifesto in the first place. Love it or not, that’s where these player expectations have come from.

It’s time to put up, Mr. O’Brien.

Nike.2631:

MrH.2591:

Yeah I was being generous I guess, they really didn’t think this through at all.

Really. You think the folks whose livelihoods depend on the game and have been working towards this release for about two years now didn’t think about it?

They have different MOTIVES than you, and different goals, but there’s no question who in this conversation hasn’t “thought about it”.

Normally I agree with what you say, but in this instance… nope.

I tried to logic things out a bit ago, and the best conclusion I can come up with is that Anet didn’t fully think it through. Arenanent is a company of ideals first and foremost, and how unsubstantial their ideals are has smashed against the cold wall of reality countless times. I don’t want to recount through the entire history of GW2, but there are plenty of examples where Anets ideals has crumbled.

Through the wretched course of becoming an adult, I learned two very important lessons:

#1: People screw up their livelihoods all the time. In fact, I’d argue that it is the default setting.
#2: Never trust other people to know things for you. Chances are, they don’t, even if it is their livelihood.

I think the solution would be:
1- Unlock the elite professions for everyone
2- Make the new zones HP unlock the masteries