Guild Wars 2

I’m pretty sure the spartans were human :p

Heavy Lulz at people thinking OP is endorsing theft.

In the UK at least, if something’s malfunctioned, or not working as intended and gives you more than it should have, it’s in the companies best interest to fix it, and customers don’t, blame is placed on them. Same goes for mis-labeled items in shops. If you see it mis-labeled at £9.00 instead of £90.00, you get that item for that £9.00 until someone goes and fixes that label.

When it comes to games, it’s never about “you did this wrong” it’s about the integrity of the game, and in this case, the integrity of the in-game market. (which for some reason ANet think’s the game will implode a billion time’s over if it isn’t reinforced with perma-bans)

“Exploit” is now just a blanket word to cover a vast number of things in game…just because.

And I bet this will get closed sharpish, just for bringing it up.

Geikamir.6329:

ProphetSword.5427:

I will say the same thing that I always say when these threads pop up. There’s this thing that comes with the game called the EULA. You click on it and agree to its terms when you first run the game.

According to that EULA, you agree not to exploit. And, you agree that your account can be terminated/banned at any time without notice for violation of the rules. That is your warning. It was given when you read the EULA (you read it, right?)

You can moan about it all you want, but you agreed to those terms. It’s a done deal. Don’t exploit.

I don’t think you’ve read this thread.

I completely with the OP. Not telling citizens the law and then punishing them based off of these mysterious hidden rules is inherently unfair. Just saying “Don’t commit crimes!” doesn’t count. What exactly are the crimes I shouldn’t commit?

This. The way these exploits are currently handled is akin to a city having a one way street but not putting any notification of it or signs about it anywhere. Then suddenly, months later, sending everyone who went the wrong way on that street a ticket in the mail. When asked what happened, their reply would simply be “We didn’t intend for you to drive that direction. It’s not our fault you didn’t realize that.”

ProphetSword.5427:

I will say the same thing that I always say when these threads pop up. There’s this thing that comes with the game called the EULA. You click on it and agree to its terms when you first run the game.

According to that EULA, you agree not to exploit. And, you agree that your account can be terminated/banned at any time without notice for violation of the rules. That is your warning. It was given when you read the EULA (you read it, right?)

You can moan about it all you want, but you agreed to those terms. It’s a done deal. Don’t exploit.

Gladly! Just let me know what is considered and exploit and I won’t do it. Simple ya?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Tolmos.8395:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Hence the reason why game companies don’t allow talk of exploits to be out in the open. Ban a few and be done, or ban thousands, and have to deal with the fallout of thousands of player complaining.

Long story short, it’s the lesser of two evils.

In this case, it isn’t. While it’s true that this works in most games, most game companies also don’t perm ban small time offenders (not just the big ones) on the first violation and for exploits that are barely recognizable as such.

That’s part of the problem. Having “small time offenders” get away with it just like saying “it’s ok to use an exploit, as long as you do it only once.”

By not advertising it, you don’t have the problem of “small time” or “big time” exploiters, or having to figure out at what point to differentiate between a suspension or ban.

So instead they just permban everyone, regardless of whether they accidentally stumble upon it or maliciously abuse it, as opposed to warning the population and only getting those who would knowingly abuse it.

Cause that makes so much more sense >_>

Tolmos.8395:

So instead they just permban everyone, regardless of whether they accidentally stumble upon it or maliciously abuse it, as opposed to warning the population and only getting those who would knowingly abuse it.

Cause that makes so much more sense >_>

You said it much better than I did.

I personally think that by advertising exploits it would drastically cut down on the need to ban players. Most people who enjoy the game would simply avoid the situation because curiosity isn’t worth the risk of losing hours and hours of work.

Those who would seek to use the exploit anyway (or those stupid enough to dismiss the warnings) are probably the players who would have used exploits regardless. The difference is that it eliminates all the bans due to mistaken or misinformed players.

It’s a much better solution in my opinion and it would mean a lot less work for ANet to figure out what constitutes a mistake, and someone genuinely exploiting.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

That’s part of the problem. Having “small time offenders” get away with it just like saying “it’s ok to use an exploit, as long as you do it only once.”

By not advertising it, you don’t have the problem of “small time” or “big time” exploiters, or having to figure out at what point to differentiate between a suspension or ban.

That’s why advertising it works, because it eliminates the need to determine who is “small time” or “big time” because everyone who participates after is an offender simple as that.

“The law says don’t use this exploit, if you do it a little, or a lot, you will be banned. So stay away from it until we can fix it.”

That seems much more fair than some arbitrary cut-off point that ANet decides. Why is 200 times ok, but 210 times not. An exploit is an exploit and if you are aware of the exploit and choose to take advantage of it, then 1 time is all that is needed. Fair for everyone.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

opposite can occur. Thousands of players log in and see the message. Out of curiosity, they all head over to Ratville to check it out. These players then start to take a drink. Then Anet needs to lay the Ban Hammer down.

By posting a message about an exploit, you “advertise” it to everyone. Sure they can post warnings not to do something, but the fact is everyone know about it now, instead of a few. So while any bans would be justified if people got curious, it’s much better not to say anything at all. Hence the reason why game companies don’t allow talk of exploits to be out in the open. Ban a few and be done, or ban thousands, and have to deal with the fallout of thousands of player complaining.

Long story short, it’s the lesser of two evils.

Curiosity is not an excuse. If ANet explains the exploit and then specifically tells the player they will be banned if they use said exploit, then that is all that needs to be said.

Exploits are by nature faults with how the game was created. When players stumble upon them they either:

- Realize it’s an exploit and choose to take advantage or not
- Don’t realize it’s an exploit and take advantage unknowingly
- Don’t realize until later that it could potentially be an exploit and choose to stop or not

The problem is that there are probably a lot of players who fall into the second two. The experienced MMO players who seek out, or take advantage of exploits when found should be banned without question. All the other players need a better way of being informed before they stumble into a dangerous situation.

Telling people about the exploit means that it’s now in the open and considered off limits until it can be corrected.

If someone chooses to go and try it out for fun, then they deserve to be banned. Simple as that. If you’ve been warned, and you go against that warning, then you deserve to be banned no matter who you are, or your reasons behind it.

Geotherma.2395:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Pukknub,

You’re right. Real world examples do fail pretty fast. So let me give you two scenarios, and you can tell me which you would prefer.

Player Judy:

- Guild Wars 2 is her first MMO
- She plays a few hours a week

Scenario A:

Judy is exploring a dark corner of a house and finds a bottle called “Elixir.” She picks it up and presses “2” and takes a drink. The bottle doesn’t disappear. She does it again, and it keeps going. Judy decides she’s scored and found a cool secret bottle, and proceeds to press the button 300 times.

Eventually, she starts wondering if this isn’t working as intended. She logs onto the forums and looks for a topic regarding this. Because explaining the exploit could result in being banned, she doesn’t feel confident in asking if this bottle is working as intended. Yet, because she can’t find any additional information, she’s also not sure if it’s even an issue.

She logs back in and finds out her account has been terminated due to using an exploit. Sad and frustrated, she uninstalls the game and moves on.

Scenario B:

Judy logs into Guild Wars 2 and is prompted with a message that states:

“Exploit Warning!

It has been recently discovered that there is a bottle called “Elixir” in the town of Ratville that does not work as intended. This will be fixed in an upcoming update, but any players using this bottle will risk having their account terminated."

Judy reads, and says, “Whew, ok cool…avoid that!”

See the difference? In Scenario B, Judy is an informed player. In addition all other players are also informed meaning that anyone, including Judy taking advantage of the exploit risks being banned.

It also means that Judy isn’t required to search the forums for information, because the information is pushed right to her. No guessing, no wondering, no fear, no mistakes, just informed players, making informed choices.

This makes me think of:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/banned-for-335-hours/first#post1769018

Arenanet and GW2 is becoming nearly infamous for it’s over the top, knee-jerk reactions to undocumented and often ambiguous exploits. :-\ It’s a shame, really. It’s as if none of their customer service staff has been properly trained on how deal with such scenarios.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Pukknub,

You’re right. Real world examples do fail pretty fast. So let me give you two scenarios, and you can tell me which you would prefer.

Player Judy:

- Guild Wars 2 is her first MMO
- She plays a few hours a week

Scenario A:

Judy is exploring a dark corner of a house and finds a bottle called “Elixir.” She picks it up and presses “2” and takes a drink. The bottle doesn’t disappear. She does it again, and it keeps going. Judy decides she’s scored and found a cool secret bottle, and proceeds to press the button 300 times.

Eventually, she starts wondering if this isn’t working as intended. She logs onto the forums and looks for a topic regarding this. Because explaining the exploit could result in being banned, she doesn’t feel confident in asking if this bottle is working as intended. Yet, because she can’t find any additional information, she’s also not sure if it’s even an issue.

She logs back in and finds out her account has been terminated due to using an exploit. Sad and frustrated, she uninstalls the game and moves on.

Scenario B:

Judy logs into Guild Wars 2 and is prompted with a message that states:

“Exploit Warning!

It has been recently discovered that there is a bottle called “Elixir” in the town of Ratville that does not work as intended. This will be fixed in an upcoming update, but any players using this bottle will risk having their account terminated."

Judy reads, and says, “Whew, ok cool…avoid that!”

See the difference? In Scenario B, Judy is an informed player. In addition all other players are also informed meaning that anyone, including Judy taking advantage of the exploit risks being banned.

It also means that Judy isn’t required to search the forums for information, because the information is pushed right to her. No guessing, no wondering, no fear, no mistakes, just informed players, making informed choices.

This makes me think of:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/banned-for-335-hours/first#post1769018

Pukknub,

You’re right. Real world examples do fail pretty fast. So let me give you two scenarios, and you can tell me which you would prefer.

Player Judy:

- Guild Wars 2 is her first MMO
- She plays a few hours a week

Scenario A:

Judy is exploring a dark corner of a house and finds a bottle called “Elixir.” She picks it up and presses “2” and takes a drink. The bottle doesn’t disappear. She does it again, and it keeps going. Judy decides she’s scored and found a cool secret bottle, and proceeds to press the button 300 times.

Eventually, she starts wondering if this isn’t working as intended. She logs onto the forums and looks for a topic regarding this. Because explaining the exploit could result in being banned, she doesn’t feel confident in asking if this bottle is working as intended. Yet, because she can’t find any additional information, she’s also not sure if it’s even an issue.

She logs back in and finds out her account has been terminated due to using an exploit. Sad and frustrated, she uninstalls the game and moves on.

Scenario B:

Judy logs into Guild Wars 2 and is prompted with a message that states:

“Exploit Warning!

It has been recently discovered that there is a bottle called “Elixir” in the town of Ratville that does not work as intended. This will be fixed in an upcoming update, but any players using this bottle will risk having their account terminated."

Judy reads, and says, “Whew, ok cool…avoid that!”

See the difference? In Scenario B, Judy is an informed player. In addition all other players are also informed meaning that anyone, including Judy taking advantage of the exploit risks being banned.

It also means that Judy isn’t required to search the forums for information, because the information is pushed right to her. No guessing, no wondering, no fear, no mistakes, just informed players, making informed choices.

Before this turns into a post personally insulting me, lets take a look at what you guys are doing.

You’re arguing against my candy example using your own previous experience. You know that because typically candy machines only give a small amount, that a candy machine that gives more must be broken.

My point is what if your experience with candy machines was limited?

You have to step back for a moment and approach this problem from the perspective of someone who may not understand why that would be considered an exploit.

To use the Mystic Forge example above, I have never used the forge. For me, anything that thing spits out is intended. I would have no idea if something wasn’t working as intended.

For example, say I threw in three items and got a Quaggan backpack. I would be pretty happy. If I did it again and got another one, I would be super happy and feel pretty lucky. If I did it a third time, I would start to wonder if perhaps something wasn’t working.

My first instinct would be to ask on the forums, or map chat. This is however forbidden, so my choice is to stop, or to continue. The problem is that I may be unaware that what I’ve done is a problem, and could log in a few hours later to find out I was banned.

You can’t simply assume that everyone understands, or has the same experience as others when it comes to what can, and can’t be done in the game. There are so many little tricks and things that one can do in the wide world of Tyria, that to ban someone without warning, or without explaining why what they are doing is wrong (nor give them any way of finding out), is not a great solution in my opinion.

Imagine for a moment, that you’re shopping and come across a newly installed candy machine. You dig into your pockets and find a quarter which you promptly place in the coin slot. You turn the handle, and the delicious candy starts to flow from the spout.

Red ones, green ones, yellow ones…your hands start to fill up with all the wonderful colors and your mouth starts to water. After a few seconds, you start to think, “Wow, this is a great value!”

You place the fists full of candy into your pocket, and walk away with a giant grin on your face.

A few moments later two security guards grab you and escort you to the door. They explain that you didn’t use the candy machine as intended, and because you took more candy than you should have, you are now banned from the mall for life.

Is this fair?

I have always had a huge problem with the way ArenaNet handles exploits. First, their policy is that even asking if something is an exploit is forbidden and can result in being banned. Second, if you happen to participate in an exploit, you risk having your account suspended, regardless if you knew it was an exploit or not.

The flaw in this logic is that it creates a situation in which gamers are required to guess the intended functionality or outcome. In a game where thousands of different things can happen (and is known to contain bugs), it seems like a lot to ask for players to guess which parts are working as intended and which are not. Additionally, many players bring their experiences with other games to Guild Wars 2, which may give them different expectations or understanding.

This creates a situation in which players risk losing access to the game, for something they may not even be aware is considered wrong. Those who seek more information, are told not to discuss these things, but to simply stop doing what those doing (to be on the safe side), and report what they feel may be an exploit.

The problem is that because ANet doesn’t discuss exploits, allow us to question them publicly, provide feedback to exploit reports, or warn players, it means that players risk account termination, and makes ANet look like unsympathetic bullies.

I personally feel the best solution is for ANet to start being transparent about what is, and isn’t considered an exploit. For example, it was recently discovered that players could gain the drinking achievement by using “magic bottles” found in some places around the world. A thread was started asking if this was an exploit, and ANet replied with, “We’re looking into it.”

Eventually it was patched, but what happened to those who either didn’t see the forum post, or didn’t consider it an exploit, yet now face account termination?

If ANet would allow players to inquire about potential exploits, without fear of being banned, then players could quickly find out what they should and shouldn’t be doing. From there, ANet should release in-game, and out-game messages, warning players of the exploit, and any caught using it risk having their account terminated.

This would allow players to avoid exploits they may have been unaware of, and give ANet a much more solid case for terminations.

Players shouldn’t feel scared to play the game. They also shouldn’t be permanently punished for something they may have been unaware they were even doing. Allow players to voice concerns, and address them openly and honestly. Most players, if given adequate warning will avoid these things, and create a much nicer gaming experience for all.

I miss civilised competition. All this trolling and flaming is a little unfortunate, given how well the guilds and competitors could get along. It can be very difficult to see things from the opponents point of view, but remember that most people are playing the way they feel is the best for them, their guild and server, and aren’t purposely playing to upset anyone. There will be conflicts in a war based event, naturally, it’s what it’s all about, but there’s no need to insult them for it… They’re all playing the game. The players make the game, let’s make it a game with a good community of players that get along, at least!

Some of the best times I’ve had while commanding have been in battles against XxX and Dius (Two of my favourite guilds of all time, in fact!) and they do things very differently to each other. I can see why XxX wouldn’t be interested in organised GvG, it doesn’t suit their tactical style. That doesn’t make them any less of a force, it’s just how they play. I still remember commanding a fight that went on for a fair while against XxX that nearly made my heart give up from the adrenaline.

The same goes for Baruch Bay, there have been some fantastic moments in the battles against them in the past, as well.

And moving on to this YOLO thing. I don’t get the hate… It was a community server event, by the sounds of things (I wasnt there, I literally got back from holiday late last night and didnt touch wvw), and these are the things that people remember from the communities they work with. Props for celebrating april fools and making an event out of it. Sure, there are times when you look at a blob the size of a small city and you cant help but think “Why?” But this time there certainly seemed to be a reason.

I know this will fall on many deaf ears, but I would definitely like to see more of
“Awesome fight with [x] vs [y] earlier!”
“Yeah, your [z] tactic was awesome!”

and a lot less of
“Lol u only win cos u blob lulz lulz omgwtf /testosteroneoverload”
“wtf circumstantial screenshot ur all noobs!”

I hope to be on the field a lot more this week, since I’ve been pretty busy the past week and a half and have barely been able to make it out for some repair bills! I look forward to some good fights and some good fun, and hope that every time I pay for repairs… It’s not because of how air-headed I can be.

2/10

too obvious

Josh Foreman.8250:

It’s 1 in 50.

O.o

Are- aren’t you breaking some deeply held taboo among ANet staff by coming right out and telling us the odds, Josh?

As for me, I was extremely lucky:

3 runs
8 chests
1 Shield skin

At least for ~ 4 months

I think this is the direction they should go. It only makes sense. Our ascended accessories are all in, and they remain exclusive to the PvE crowd. It encourages you to play the PvE part of the game. They need something to encourage people to play the other part of the game, WvW.

Since Ascended Armor isn’t really a question of “if”, just “when”, I think they should plan on releasing them slowly in WvW. During that time they can say that they are “working on adding it to other parts of the game”. Having ascended armor released in WvW will encourage people to populate the battlefields, and not just so they can whine in map chat about that one tower they want everyone to cap for them to complete their world completion. Make it require something like badges, so they actually have to participate.

This would further diversify the areas of the game that everyone plays in. They want people to take part in multiple aspects of the game, this would do just that.

Of course if you’ve noticed part of my post is made in jest (such as the “working on adding it to other parts of the game”, etc….). However, I am in many ways being completely serious. Why shouldn’t they give WvW exclusive equipment that is “Best in Slot”? At least temporarily. It’s only fair.

Now if people want to bring up how ascended gear is for more agony, which is only used in fractals. Well, if ascended gear was for only agony, it would have the stats of an exotic with just agony thrown on. So clearly ascended gear’s purpose is NOT purely agony resistance, so don’t pretend it is.

Anyway, any reasonable reasons why this shouldn’t happen? It fits with the direction they are taking the game, where they encourage people to grind multiple aspects of the game (laurels, fractals, guild missions, next WvW).

So you want add ons that act as a crutch? Make it easier for you to manage your cooldowns?

Really?

Benty.7140:

Just started the game…

Right. You just got here, sport. You don’t develop a thousand yard stare over night. Why not wait a few months before spouting off about complaints people have, so you at least have some amount of perspective, upon which to form an opinion? I’m guessing your comments about mounts, level increases and terrain, will have turned into “whines” (your word, not mine) by summer, if you’re still around They’re pretty close to it now.

OP: “I hate whiners.”

Proceeds to whine about mounts.

Whiners already won. GW2 has a gear treadmill and a grind.

Molonlabe.3761:

It sucks to be ANet.

People will complain when there is no option.
People still complain when there are options.
People continue to complain when these options are easier/harder than they expect.

Lots of people believe that it should take “skills” to acquire certainly equipment/skin. However, the very same people often forget that it probably takes more skill to make “gold” (or, rather, real money in real life) in game.

Of course, one can always say “it is easy to make gold in GW2”, “TP trading is always easy” on an internet forum…

Then again, if that’s the case, wouldn’t you have your skins (or any things else, really) already?? If making gold is so easy, you wouldn’t be here complaining in the first place.

If, just a big if, someone makes $200 dollars an hour in real life, will it make sense for him to farm CoF for “your mighty easy 10g” an hour? Or use “the mighty skill” to farm the box for many hours?

laugh

Considering I’m halfway to my second legendary and already have my wanted super skin, this is a discussion about what an unpleasant experience it has been to discover that playing market/farmer is a more profitable way to play the game.

But feel free to continue your dismissive brown-nosing. Cute “reasonable cynics” are cute.

It’s this simple. Getting my legendary was nowhere near as fun as I expected it to be, and getting the skins wasn’t either. Because you make an activity that’s not fun for me the most efficient way to achieve these things. It’s simple — do what I like and gain things at a glacial pace, or bite the bullet and gain what I want at an actually reasonable rate.

Is what it takes for a super skin. You can do the proper content and come close to enough tokens for a skin in about 2 hours having to resort to alts, or you can run cof p1 and earn the amount of money needed for pretty much every skin but the greatsword in half an hour. Add another half an hour and you got your greatsword still in half the time it would take doing speed runs with 6 alts of the SAB content.

You can substitute cof for coe and even still AC, hell even TA if you know how to skip. It would be a bit less efficient than cof, but still faster. Or farm world bosses and Penitent’s for loot bags at cursed shore.

It seems incredible how weapon skins in this game are not prestigious or a sign that you’ve done the content. Every skin outside explorable sets or fractal skins is purchasable, and it’s more efficient to farm the money to purchase them than actually do the content that drops the mats/tokens for it.

I got lucky and got my super shield skin off a chest drop — many people are not so lucky. I just wish this game would not be made ineffective by the TP because you can get anything you want from the TP without needing to play the game. Even the personal story pact weapons are up for sale.

You can nerf cof p1, but that will only make people farm the next most efficient dungeon or stick to penitent farming or open world chests. The TP renders this game’s achievement and reward systems obsolete. It’s a test of willpower to farm rather than whether you’ve actually done the content. And I feel bad for the poor guy who does the honest content while the shrewd person farming cof p1 will get the skins quicker, or the person who got the skin drop from the chest early sells it and can get 3 skins later when prices drop while the unlucky fools had to slowly repeat their way into skins.

Gambling without knowing the odds is probably one of the worst things that you can do in life. Luckily it wasn’t anything important.

On a positive note, think of it as an investment. It may have cost you 200$ but; you’ve learnt something valuable.