Guild Wars 2

Merges will not solve anything as long as transfers are available no matter how restricted, period. Transfers, bandwagons, mass migrations up and down the ranks happened often before links were even around. If you make transfers too heavily restricted like say 1 transfer per 6 months, you might even force players to just leave the game if they get bored.

Links basically already act like 2 month transfers to servers, but players still move to get out of tiers entirely. That’s one of the problems with the tiers, as you go up the tiers the more zergs and blobs you find, as you go down the more roaming small groups you will find. If the server you’re on doesn’t provide the setting you want you will have to move tiers.

The only servers crashing lately have been falling from t1, yb, db, jq, tc, because of players leaving them. The only thing that kept guilds on servers was server loyalty, and that went out the window years ago as the game mode became more stale with ppting. There is nothing in the game to keep players loyal to a server, other than the community and winning, but for a lot of players their guild is their community.

I don’t know what else you can expect from anet, they collect the data to try and make appropriate links, links happen, then within that first week guilds move off in mass. What is anet suppose to do then? redo the links constantly until players figure out what is balanced?(which players won’t). The players create that problem, they have to live with it. Now we see anet messing with glicko to try and react to the changes and have managed to fudge some of the matchups (hod shouldn’t be in t2, mag should be in t1 still, tc does deserve to drop).

A lot of players are moving down from t1 these days because they want smaller fights, they move but then they have followers that also move with them, next thing you know the server gets enough ppt to move back up the ranks and everything repeats itself.

We all know eventually the only solution to this problem is the eotm way with player pools, and heavy restrictions on transfers. But players probably aren’t ready for that solution yet, that’s one of the reasons why the alliance solution was held back in favor of links which was a simpler solution.

Current system is better, imo. I used to spend tonnes of gold and lots of time zooming from place to place to keep upgrades going, etc.

Now I don’t have to, and can just spend the time looking for fights and responding to white swords.

Seems like win to me.

I think people forget the fact that in order for this “free” upgrade to happen you have to keep the camps running! Similar to before, but before it depended on the amount of supplies in the keep and who wanted to dish out the silver and gold for the upgrades.

Now you fight to keep the camps running and get your upgrades that way. It’s so easy to halt an enemy upgrade just by roamers taking the camps over and over again. It happens a lot. So now you get OUT of the keep and have a bit more fun than just sitting in and zzzzz then spending more gold.

Yes, if nobody is on because everyone is sleeping you get the auto-upgrades more quickly etc etc. We see a lot more T3 keeps now than before I think .. maybe .. But isn’t WvW more about the battles, in and out of the structures than it is the poor little guy that sits in there for hours babysitting and trying to get the upgrades in the order that someone wants without being screamed at.. even though it was HIS gold that paid for the upgrades?

Frankly I think this system that we have now is much better overall.

Everyone that preferred and argued for manual upgrading was overruled in favor of hassle free. Some said it would free up the time of those that babysat keeps so they could join the zerg. Now, it is the opinion of many that zergs and their size are out of hand. Scouts and babysitters either joined the zerg, found another outlet of engagement or left.

Personally, I left at first, then briefly (within the first 6 months of HOT) argued that we should have free will to manually upgrade atleast a camp.

Now, AUs and everything else HOT have been in place for almost 2 years and arguing against them at this point IS fruitless.

First, because I’m not even sure there’s anyone left that would know how to or even bother to do it.

Second, giving free will upgrades to an individual or server won’t keep the objective from flipping and it won’t make the server care more about defending it, same as always you’ll have 1 or a group of individuals that watched as their time and money vanished in the blink of an eye.

Lastly, the amount of upgrade trolling if the system were reverted would most likely reach an all time high. We’ve forgotten about when someone stepped AFK right before planning to go for WP upgrade and someone else came in and hit gates or guards or some other path that was not planned by the person that had been watching and escorting yaks for 4 hours prior to stepping away for a phone call.

Are AUs better? Depends on your playstyle, be it as it may, the majority still prefer set it and forget it. Can you continue to live with AUs never going away? Depends on if you’ve found something else in wvw to keep you engaged enough to stay.

It is what it is, the only reason I’ve given up the argument is that now, it’s nice to not have to split supply between upgrades and seige. There’s less free will, but more flexibility. The only thing you have to worry about now, if you do build defensive seige is whether or not someone will be there to refresh it. It is what it is, but it’s never going to revert back to what it was.

Anet won’t do this for the simple reason that their main worry would be that it would kill off wvw.

For many this would be like treating a victim in A&E with a stab wound by stabbing them again.

Your proposal fails to solve the problem of server stacking. You assume people won’t talk to each other via ts, etc and then all move to stack one new server, creating exactly the same problem you were trying to solve.

The more casual players might just decide to call it a day.

In order for such a change to have any chance at all, it would have to be launched with a complete overhaul of the current wvw system, maps, skills etc with bonuses and penalties to even the playing field and less maps per match up and more teams in each match up. As Anet aren’t interested in spending that sort of dev time on wvw, it’s not going to happen.

One thing that’s easy to underestimate is how much server pride and/or established relationships keep people playing long after when they would have otherwise stopped.

I’m on a linked server (Ehmry) that had its population crater shortly after the linking started. In principle, the more populated matchups that lining brought (initially) should have kept people going, but there were a lot of transfers off, a lot of people who stopped playing, and our once (fairly active) server website turned into a ghost town.

I can’t point to a definitive cause, but my bet is that the loss of a common identity played a major role in that. Your proposal essentially rolls the dice and hopes people will stick around to form an identity around their new server, rather than just call it quits.

Not saying it isn’t a good idea, just saying there may be a risk there.

Baldrick.8967:

@Rash, none of my list was meant to denigrate people who might enjoy their wondering pve time – but there is a whole world for them to do that, it’s called pve. 1v1 or small scale skirmish you can have much more of that in spvp. To most of the wvw people I speak to, they would rather not have the map as tactically it’s awful. ‘omg the capped fire keep’. So? has zero effect- you can even run over the top of it, it has no impact on any other structure or even path.

DBL is just a collection of structures that have little to no effect on each other, connected by verticals that were clearly meant for a pve map with gliding enabled.

In fact, DBL when it came out looked like it belonged next to Silverwastes and was just a repurposed pve map that they didn’t have a pve use for.

I might have been conflating your post with others, it’s become difficult to tell sometimes.

When it comes down to it though, my assessment of the map and the experiences I’ve had on it just doesn’t match your’s.

My preferences tend towards large scale disorganised combat, and from that perspective some of the most fun I’ve ever had in wvw has been on DBL.

I’m just trying to point out that your statements on what the map is aren’t universally recognised truths, they’re just an opinion that you’ve formed based on your experiences and heard a rough facsimile of echoed back to you from some others. That’s all my opinion is too. But the very fact that mine has found the chance to form in myself and others means that the map has the potential for it to form in still more people, if certain vocal and stubborn demographics could take their heads out of their kittens and end their desperate attempts to “be right after all”.

Because in all honesty, in the end 90+% of the complaints about the map boiled down to “it doesn’t seem to cater to my immediate preferences as they currently stand, or if it does I can’t be kitten d learning how”.

And after a while it just becomes exhausting dealing with people who think their opinion is gospel. And I’m not necessarily saying you do, again I might be conflating posts from multiple people and from multiple months ago at this stage because it’s always the same tired old excuses for why they believe that their opinion is the correct one that get trotted out and all I can think is just… evolve…

Caliburn.1845:

We should clearly get rid of all the BLs, get rid of EotM, and just have EBG by this argument. Which would just be silly. We need maps that are different, even maps that are less popular. Nothing would be more boring than having four identical maps to play on.

Would it be silly though?

We could easily have 4 EBs in a matchup. Population low, the servers can only queue 1 of the EBs? Then have 2 EBs for lower and more balanced scores (50% max of 4 EBs). More people coming online in primetime? Open up another EB. Simple and effective instancing based on populations.

Of course in an ideal world we would have 4 differently designed 3-way EBs (castle on one, ruins on another in a jungle setting, maybe huge quaggan infested lake on the third in a winter setting, etc etc) but what are you going to do.

I wonder how boring people would really think it is. People still play EoTM and that’s only 1 map, over and over and over again. People still stay in 100 man queues and AFK on borders in order to play that boring map.

Baldrick.8967:

ProDecius.2609:

I love dbl as well and would miss it immensely. It was actually my first map since I started playing gw2 right when HOT came out. I was honestly underwhelmed by alpine when I first saw it because DBL is so expansive and filled with places to go. It took me like 20 minutes to know every location on alpine in contrast. I prefer alpines keeps, but I much prefer DBLS towers. The alpine towers honesty completely suck compared to the towers in DBL. DBL is a fantastic map and Anet did a really good job with it, it honestly makes me sad how quick people are to dismiss because of it’s higher learning curve.

You guys complaining about DBL are probably the PUGS that hand over free loot bags to the enemy zergs all day in the extremely overplayed and worst map EBG. Do you guys even roam? Probably not because DBL is in my opinion the most fun map for roaming.

It’s fantastic how, exactly?

You run around and don’t see another person on it- is that good?

You run around and get jumped by a group of 4 ‘roamers’ playing stealth infused characters?

You run around doing pve?

You run around pvd?

You run around capping flags and camps?

A tower is attacked by a ninja party, by the time you’ve finished checking every possible attack spot they have downed the walls and are now at Lord?

There are lots of places to go..and do nothing and see no one. it’s not known as the Deserted Borderlands for nothing.

Even trying to get people to go to it is a struggle, even if it has the only tag online on it, or if you are forming a guild raid- because it’s the worst possible place to go to get fights, and you can end up running around the map achieving almost nothing compared to the other maps.

DBL is a roamer’s paradise- you can run around it all day and only engage people you know you can beat, or just go over or under anyone you don’t want to meet. But for large scale warfare, it’s a disaster.

So what you’re saying is… there are variances in… playstyle… preferences? My god, what a revelation! People like different things! Which obviously means those people are wrong and we should instead only cater to one type of player. The right type. That think exactly like I do. Since they’re the only real players.

All the arguments for getting rid of DBL can just as easily be used to justify getting rid of Alpine BL as well.

Much less active than EBG? Check. Much more PVD? Check. Much more running around to get anywhere? Check.

We should clearly get rid of all the BLs, get rid of EotM, and just have EBG by this argument. Which would just be silly. We need maps that are different, even maps that are less popular. Nothing would be more boring than having four identical maps to play on.

I love dbl as well and would miss it immensely. It was actually my first map since I started playing gw2 right when HOT came out. I was honestly underwhelmed by alpine when I first saw it because DBL is so expansive and filled with places to go. It took me like 20 minutes to know every location on alpine in contrast. I prefer alpines keeps, but I much prefer DBLS towers. The alpine towers honesty completely suck compared to the towers in DBL. DBL is a fantastic map and Anet did a really good job with it, it honestly makes me sad how quick people are to dismiss because of it’s higher learning curve.

You guys complaining about DBL are probably the PUGS that hand over free loot bags to the enemy zergs all day in the extremely overplayed and worst map EBG. Do you guys even roam? Probably not because DBL is in my opinion the most fun map for roaming.

I love DBL and voted for it – guilty as charged XD
Fantastic map, and I love having the advantage of knowing all the nooks and crannies so that I can defend/attack the map when needed. I think if people spent more time on it to learn its ins & outs and let go of their hate for it, maybe their minds would change. It’s a really fun map and I think people just need to get to know it better. I do think of course there is no changing some people’s minds that are set on hating it, which is fine – not everyone likes the same things.

The main issue with the Anet vote was the caveat they put in it, which was basically ‘vote to keep the DBL or we’ll never do another wvw map ever’. So of course people voted to keep it, what real choice was there.

Of course, since there isn’t a wvw dev team, the chances of getting another map or pretty low anyway…

At this stage for wvw I’d rather see 3 distinct balanced maps (no ‘home’ BL for any side) akin to EB, or if they want to be very lazy, 3 copies of EB.

Having four maps per match up is now too many, it spreads people too far out for the numbers who still play.

As for pvd, DBL remains a roamers paradise as they can pve all they like without meeting any enemies at all.

DBL isn’t going to get the overhaul it needs to make it a desired map by most players.

Removing DBL will also end any chance to get a third BL map.

I wonder if wvw would be better off with just two maps. EBG for everyone and one home Alpine map for the highest glicko server to defend.

Aphs.9528:

People keep saying oh we voted for desert bl but the people who voted for it are no where to be seen and that’s because the majority who voted for it only go EOTM , PVE and people who only enter WvW for dailies . Just to a revote and exclude people who hardly enter WvW .

Here is what a real WvW vote looks like since majority players who voted for it are WvW players

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=585d28afe4b09017a83c32d8

I almost exclusively play WvW, entering PvE only for crafting armor/legendaries. Never seen this poll. Am I not a WvW player?

Are those 250 votes really enough to justify calling this a “real” vote?
The answer is...no.

Turk.5460:

I love roaming in the DBL. I think its a great map, and I don’t have to deal with blobs unless I band together with other roamers and attack a keep. DBL is fine, and I hope they make a third map that is just as detailed.

and then :

Ballistic.2570:

I dislike DBL and avoid playing there if at all possible. It’s really difficult to navigate and if you die in a fight there is no way you’re getting back to the tag.

It also seems really PvE heavy. Like the person who designed it had no interest in big fights. Seige Wars is not my idea of a good time, unless I want to go semi AFK while listening to music on a night capping crew.

I play WvW for intense Zerg/Blob fights and in my experience they are in short supply on DBL.

This is interesting because it seems like the very same design choices are the reason why DBL is both liked and disliked. Which eventually means that it’s your personal taste, and not an absolute design flaw. Then there’s the question whether the design meets the player’s expectations.

Now, for more specifics :

Ballistic.2570:

It’s really difficult to navigate and if you die in a fight there is no way you’re getting back to the tag.

If I were ironic, I’d say somthing like “git gud”. I’ll just say learn the map, learn the paths, and do your best not to die. Even if it includes avoid fights or disengage.

Ballistic.2570:

Like the person who designed it had no interest in big fights. Seige Wars is not my idea of a good time, unless I want to go semi AFK while listening to music on a night capping crew.

I play WvW for intense Zerg/Blob fights and in my experience they are in short supply on DBL.

So, let’s have a look at what ANet says about it in the official site :

In this massive war, three huge armies—each representing their world—battle for control of the castles and keeps, raid enemy supply caravans, and clash in open-field battles on five massive maps in week-long matches and seasonal tournaments.

The three Borderlands maps and a huge “neutral” center map are loaded with objectives that are worth points for the team that claims them, and successfully holding those objectives will make them more powerful over time. Players can band together to lay siege to castles, raid enemy supply caravans, clash with other players in truly massive battles, wreak havoc behind enemy lines, or build mighty weapons of warlike trebuchets and siege golems.

See ? Intense Zergs and blob fights are somehow mentioned, but they’re not the main focus. The focus is objectives, PPT, keeps, siege, supply caravans, etc.
I understand you’re unhappy about it, but it’s their design, and if you don’t like it, you may either leave the game, or stick to Alpine, which of course you can do every week.

Swamurabi.7890:

The time for WvW eSports was a few years ago and Anet missed that opportunity.

The GvG scene could have become big, but you really need a shoutcaster that knows what’s going on. Sometimes it’s tough to see through all the effects.

And to think what kind of skill balance changes would we see if there was a WvW eSports.

People already found it hard to follow actions in 5v5 PvP.

GvG is even worse. All you see is a cluster of name tags vs a cluster of name tags. Anyone believing it has potential being esports is deluding himself.

AliamRationem.5172:

I know because I had a similar initial experience. In retrospect, I was making a lot of new player mistakes. I just didn’t realize it because up until I hit the jungle, my build and tactics were working out great! I totally steamrolled the personal storyline and core Tyria maps! Then I entered the jungle and fell flat on my face! Ouch!

Played since beta. Had the same experience! XD

Getting into the HoT beta and not knowing wth I was doing, that had me spitting mad about the future of the game. Didn’t ease much when I started in Verdant Brink, but it’s still up there as one of my kinda-favorite zones. Knowing how to get around and opening up those travel options will be a great help.
So give it time, OP.

Seems like housing would better fit in the home instances. You never get kicked out of there, so you would always have access.

An Anet claimed objective is a target. It’s fun to see them, because you know it’s going to draw fights, because someone will want to take it out, and it’s an easy rallying cry… “take the Anet claimed thing!”

I’m pretty much always happy to see Anet tags, because they know exactly what happens when they put that target over their heads, and they do it anyway.

My guess is that the ArenaNet tag has special meaning to players.

I am sure players love to see developers playing their own game,

but seeing the developer’s tag could be distracting to others.

expandas.7051:

Straegen.2938:

It is sad when DB map chat became excited because Mag was taking garri so we didn’t have to see that ANet tattoo on garri. This game breaks my heart sometimes and this week after the last one is certainly trying.

Last of my guild to play and tonight I find myself wondering why I keep going.

That’s really disheartening to hear. Correct me if I’m wrong about this, but the point here isn’t so much about whether or not developers can play or should play in WvW. I think you’d be hard pressed to find any active WvW player who DOESN’T want more developers to be active in the game mode. The trouble here is more on the PR-side. Doing something like this has terrible optics. Is that really how you want your organization, company in this instance, to be perceived? The answer is obvious.

Say someone invents a new sport that becomes largely popular. Said person doesn’t possess any super human powers nor do they have any influence over the rules or score. But said person is also not allowed to play the game they invented, because what ever team they choose to be on, the other team feels insulted.

How is that fair.

I understand how ANet claiming things can aggravate people but how many of us are adults here… I mean really, more people need to act like it. Their guild flag being on anything or them being on any servers doesn’t mean anything. It’s just people being offended for the sake of being offended.

Changing score system to an absolute perfect one doesn’t fix the real issues that’s plaguing wvw.

2-1-1 can work if players adjust to the system, but most players these days are lazy and just want to go after whatever is weaker which is piledriver the third place server. The only way it’s demoralizing to second is if second was only playing for second and didn’t care to actually win first, but in that system they’re playing for the same point as third.

The game was built for 2v1, you’re suppose to play to win, not play for lazy man second and call that a win for your server. Only it was suppose to be 2v1 on the winning server, not the losing one. Then again they had systems like the orbs/bloodlust which again favored bigger servers with numbers and coverage to hold it, so even in the beginning wvw was built to favored bigger servers to snowball the smaller servers.

The 2v1 was never built properly from the start, there were no incentives to actually fight the proper 2v1. Scoring changes are useless anyways, players say they want changes, but complain hard to go back to old systems whenever there’s a significant change.

I will point out yet again the score doesn’t fix any of the problems in WvW. Changing the score doesn’t fix population or coverage issues. Score changes don’t make the game more fun.

Changing the scoring in WvW is akin to performing a nose job while the patient is bleeding out from a gunshot wound.

Amaimon.7823:

so you just want a bland creature without a name following you?
I wish for the exact opposite, allowing us to give names to the minions we rise

Displaying name plates hurts FPS on slower machines; it also makes it hard to pick out a single foe or ally to target.
—————————————
Regardless, the word “minion” suggests a nameless, faceless servant; I don’t think they should have names.

As our PCs say:

• Go forth, you disposable soldier.
• Ah, fresh fodder.
• Arise, my brainless, arise!
• Go, fodder, go!
• They’re so disposable.

And most significantly:

Good thing I didn’t name that one!

This is the biggest non-issue in history. It’s a guild that has no extra bonuses or benefits than any other guild. Also, not every dev that works on the game works on WvW. They are human beings and deserve to enjoy the game just like us. Y’all need to chill.