What I was trying to point out is that the gameplay in itself – no matter how interesting or fun will not be able to constitute a reason for players to keep playing the content after the first or second playthrough.
People keep saying that if dungeons were revamped – the encounters changed and made harder, the mobs made to chase so you can’t skip, the bosses applying constant pressure, stacking made obsolete – that somehow the dungeons would become the holy grail of Guild Wars 2 and people would love them and all would be amazing.
I’m just pointing out why that’s not going to happen – because the majority couldn’t care less about the experience in itself – and only about the reward.
People often ask " When you stack in a corner and your camera is so cramped that you can’t see anything that’s going on are you truly experiencing the game to its fullest? " – and the answer is : I don’t care. Because I didn’t go in that dungeon in order to experience it for the 345th time – I went in to get that 1 gold reward at the end and couldn’t care less about what’s in between the start and that reward as long as it’s short and I get my reward fast.
Dungeons were a thing for maybe 2-4 months after release – after that there’s nothing new they can give you – so the only reason you do them is to farm them.
I agree with that. Heck I was kinda miffed that I even had to do the S2 living story twice for achievements because it’s something that I already did and it offered nothing more the 2nd time through (other than the AP/Chest rewards).
Yet disregard the advantages of using kits, and forget that three kit builds exist. Condition removal available for any sort of generic build (Healing Turret +2(15-20s CD), Elixir Gun 5 +1, Transmute(15s CD and converts incoming condition) +1, Really in dire need of mass removal use Elixir C for a Condition Wipe->boons, and it comes with Toss Elixer C which is +1 more on condition removal). You have 1 stunbreak, a decent amount or condition removal. Conditions it’s what everyone has to deal with. Same with full dps build with barely any condition removal find a way to incorporate it into your build as much as you can by switching around things in your spec. You don’t need a kit dedicated to removing loads of conditions. The most I’d see coming is making Elixir C a instant cast so it can turn things like Fear into stability.
EG+C… would make for a horrid useless build which is why it’s not done.
Well – as long as that auto-piloting gets you money/rewards at the end of the process I’d say people do feel a sense of progress.
It is why we have FOTM zerging and champ trains no?
But what I was mostly focusing on was the second – that sooner or later people will only do content for it’s monetary reward since PVE encounters become stale no matter how dynamic you make them just through the fact that people play them a lot.
People should stop being surprised that the a lot of players don’t want dungeons/encounters to change.
For some people those still are an enjoyable area of the game and they would like to see it “improved” ( or changed to better match their opinion of improvement) but for most players those areas ( dungeons) are just places they go to in order to get rewards.
Of course they don’t want them changed – they’re used to the way the dungeons are now and couldn’t care less about the content itself – they just don’t want their rewards being made harder to obtain or taking longer to get.
It would be a fun experiment that Anet could do ( but never will) – drop all rewards from dungeons for a week or two – and we’d see exactly how many people do them for the experience and how many do them because of the gold and experience and tokens at the end.
Hardly anyone would do them… but it’s not just black and white as your post makes it seem. You would lost the people that just want the rewards and also those that enjoy the content but also want to feel like their time is being rewarded.
I’m apart of the latter group. It would need to be something extraordinarily good in order for me to do it without any reward component when that’s offered elsewhere along with at least decent content. I also don’t want to mindlessly farm though…
I don’t see it just being a currency for one small sub section of an area. But I agree with not farming up tons of them just on the off-chance that this is the case.
i would argue that “Learning” to play against invisible opponent is an oxymoron.
But when you are short on arguments L2P is Always the answer.
Thanks for proving my point.
If you took the time to play a thief for a short while, then played your normal main and dueled against one a bit… you would be able to learn quite a bit about what they do in a given situation, and how to counter them. This is a great way to help learn how to fight against any class, I highly recommend trying it.
I started out as a thief @ launch, now I hardly ever play mine, but I don’t have many probs against them unless their build counters mine (which hardly a problem with the thief). I learned. You can too.
Looking @ your other posts it seems you main an eng. If that’s right and you’re complaining about thieves… you’re doing something wrong.
I’d rather say you proved mine instead.
If your opponent is able to predict you, he is either lucky or a mind reader or more easily you are being predictable.
Being predictable is the main trait of an unexperienced player and as i said it all comes from thief side.
I often remember how soulcalibur IV developers refused to put a custom mode in its ranking games because skills like invisibility (2 seconds once per round) couldn t be included in ANY serious game mode.
Having no tell, and no reaction window simply removes skill from a game.
Prediction may be part of it, pushing it too far simply comes to luck.
Not to mention that you can easily browse internet for the most ridiculous stealth skill in a game and see what you find.
So now thinking about what your opponent will do in a given situation =’s reading minds. Wow. I do this against every class… heck I do this in every game. I am professor X.
Sadly there’s a dichotomy when it comes to passive play in this game : anything that’s not warrior passive play is alright.
Warrior passive sustain, or traits, or anything is bad.
But mesmers having phantasms doing all the work or engis spamming turrets is considered ok.
i would argue that “Learning” to play against invisible opponent is an oxymoron.
But when you are short on arguments L2P is Always the answer.
Thanks for proving my point.
If you took the time to play a thief for a short while, then played your normal main and dueled against one a bit… you would be able to learn quite a bit about what they do in a given situation, and how to counter them. This is a great way to help learn how to fight against any class, I highly recommend trying it.
I started out as a thief @ launch, now I hardly ever play mine, but I don’t have many probs against them unless their build counters mine (which hardly a problem with the thief). I learned. You can too.
Looking @ your other posts it seems you main an eng. If that’s right and you’re complaining about thieves… you’re doing something wrong.
People complain about thieves because they can be frustrating to fight against and learning to fight against them isn’t as obvious as other classes where you can see their animations etc.
Well those are ranged options, 2 ranged weapons out of how many melee weapons? A lot of the damage comes from melee specs unless you’re bothering to trait for rifle and build around it. As for longbow doesn’t have a lot of damage on it unless you stand in CS ,eat multiple Arching Arrows, and eat a point blank Fan of Fires frequently.
Yet they both have natively longer range then the weapons engineers have available. Rifle caps at 1000 range for only one damage skill, while pistols cap at 900, natively.
You have it wrong longbow is respectively 1000 Range and can be traited to be 1200 range(Stronger Bowstrings). Engineer has a trait as well that can make rifle 1200 ranged (Rifled Barrels 200 range increase on Rifle, pistol and Elixir Gun). Warrior rifle is the only 1200 ranged weapon. Also this is going off topic.
Longbow actually shoots quite a bit further than that…
If they receive buffs in the condi removal department, you should handicap them elsewhere, perhaps remove damage and CC options drastically to make up for it. Can’t have it all you know.
I agree if it’s buffed a lot then something needs to give.
However, eng’s cond resistance was recently nerfed. I think most eng’s would be happy with just getting a little something to balance that out.
So we’re warriors based on the original dev posted balancing philosophies. Then they added cleansing ire amount other things. So history shows that argument doesn’t hold much water.
No you’re a engineer. Engineer isn’t exactly weak like Warrior was before HS and Cleansing Ire came out, plus envisioning of the class tbh it matches up now. Warriors are sturdy melee based fighters, compare them to before where you just beat them up a few times and they’ll drop if they stay in combat more then a few seconds. AKA free kill in which Condition bombing easily does this. The only thing having a good time dealing with Engis are necros, because they can make engis eat their own condition faceroll (Dagger 4 ,Plague signet)and they have limited ways to deal with that many conditions. But bottom line, want something buffed like more condition removal? Be prepared to give up something for it, or tweak your spec as much as you can to accommodate more condi removal. Engis aren’t really weak, they’re actually kinda strong, and very trolly.
Eng is weak vs any cond build that puts out more than 2 conditions…
Eng has had it’s resistance to conds (which was already low) lowered…
Again, I don’t think anyone is asking for eng to be strong vs conds, just not quite as weak as they are now after the nerfs.
Aberrant, I think their intention is to make sure people focus on what’s primarily important: the story. On subsequent plays, they can experience the story again as a refresher while getting the achievements. I didn’t mind it at all, and it extended the content as I felt it should have been.
I think that’s giving people too little credit and giving the developers too much credit.
I’m sure the average person can pay attention to the limited dialogue that’s there in the middle of the mission… the majority of it is at the start/end.
There isn’t a lot of new content. Forcing people to repeat the same thing is a way of making it seem like there is more new stuff than there is. It’s not just do the story twice… just about everything in this update seems to have that as a goal if you want something more out of it other than just watching the story for the first time. 1,850 geodes to get all the things @T4, which are acc bound scrolls/products so you can’t just buy them, you HAVE to grind. I don’t like having to repeat/grind just because it makes it appear that there is more content… and it only fools a small portion of the people anyways, most gamers have been wise to this tatic for a long time now.
That being said I did enjoy it… the first time through.
I liked the story the first time. It was well done.
Having to do it again to get the achievements felt more like an artificial way of making the new content take longer. IMO it should all be do-able on the first run and if you don’t get the achievement on that first try then you can repeat it. That tainted the whole thing for me.
The new area is nice as well, but it feels very limited and if you want more than a couple of things you’ve gotta grind (which I’m not a fan of to say the least). Again it feels like an attempt to lengthen content.
Is this intended or is it a bug? It seems like my JC should be able to refine it since it’s something she uses. It’s not a huge deal since I have one of every craft, but for others it could be very annoying to say the least.
Buffing Automated Response would be an enormous buff to engineer. Unless you’re asking for them to completely redo the trait, you are asking for a buff even if it’s “done correctly.”
That’s not how I would help eng’s problems Vs. conditions. IMO it needs more options to be added, not buffs to existing traits.
I wouldn’t exactly consider engineer in a position where it needs buffs.
More options =/= buffs when done correctly. If you place the traits well then you would force the eng to be weaker Vs. some things to be stronger Vs. conditions. Right now it’s kinda of everything -> anti cond and suck at everything else or just be extremely weak Vs. conds.
Look at what they did with mesmer. They gave it more cond removal options, but it wasn’t really a buff.
Eng on the other hand has had its cond resistance nerfed without anything to compensate.
Eng also isn’t chosen very often for teams… so I don’t think it’s overly strong right now or anything. That being said, I hate turret eng’s… they are annoying for people to play against and are the eng equiv of a minion mancer.
It wasn’t ok as it was before, but eng is now very weak Vs. conds. Eng badly needs some more cond removal options… but not to the point where they are strong against conds.
transmute + generosity + heal turret + rifle 4 + rocket boots is more than enough condi cleanse :P
With rifle + rocket boots your build sucks and you still have no answer to terrormencer
its fine in wvw
Aka it’s fine when you just need to run away to friends to outnumber Vs. WvW-ers (who tend to be far less skilled players)… unfortunately that doesn’t work so well in actual PvP.
“actual pvp” is about sitting on points for as long as possible, not killing people
plus im more talking about duels in OS where you do in fact see skilled players and running to friends is a non factor
You need to both defend and take points. That involves killing people. It involves a lot more coordination than a duel.
Duels are inherently imbalanced in this game. It’s build Vs. build. Add imbalanced stats from gear/food from PvE and huge open space… yea…
I used to hardcore solo roam/duel in WvW until my server hit t1 (where it’s all rubbish). PvP is far better balanced and takes more skill anyways though.
Rifle + rb isn’t a good answer to eng’s cond problems… it’s fine for mobility, but it’s not as if they clear damaging conds or anything.
transmute + generosity + heal turret + rifle 4 + rocket boots is more than enough condi cleanse :P
With rifle + rocket boots your build sucks and you still have no answer to terrormencer
its fine in wvw
Aka it’s fine when you just need to run away to friends to outnumber Vs. WvW-ers (who tend to be far less skilled players)… unfortunately that doesn’t work so well in actual PvP.
it’s been their design philosophies for WvW since day one, (original article explaining this gone now)
But really, what else explains WvW balance tied with PvE, or that one character be buff to the kittens with guard leech, bloodlust, food and guild buffs, or a group of 50 taking on 5 people defending a tower.
You can’t balance this kitten, why even try?
I think what you mean is that WvW balance isn’t done on a one-per-one basis. Which makes perfect sense, it’d be quite useless to try that.
WvW still needs to be balanced overall. Has nothing to do with how an Engineer fights a Mesmer 1v1, but rather whether the effective scaling of classes is uniform between sizes and whether important parameters are kept in check by the class balance (overall, not per-class).
The size/number/coverage variation between the different servers make it impossible to balance WvW. Regardless of how well the individual classes are balanced as a whole, it won’t matter.
They don’t balance for 1v1 though since it becomes build vs. build.
When a thief uses stealth, you have a few options:
1) Use something that protects yourself.
2) Use something that punishes the thief for hitting you.
3) Anticipate a strike while they’re in stealth and dodge.
4) Use an AoE that damages the thief and stand in it.
For example, I’m an elementalist and one thing I like to do is use Shocking Aura. The moment they attack, they get revealed and they get stunned for hitting me, allowing me to attack.
None of these are counters.
Yes they are, because counter means something that denies the second party access to what would give them an advantage over you, You can’t reduce their stealth TIME, but you can very well make it hard for them to make good use of it.
adjective
1.The definition of counter is someone or something the opposite of another.
You don’t seem to know what soft counters are. Not everything needs to have a hard counter is. Hard counters are usually just bad/lazy game design.
You can kill/force a stealthing opponent away from whatever the objective is with the things that are currently in game. A hard counter is not needed.
Also from Jan→(almost) July and you haven’t been able to figure out how to deal with stealth? o.O If you want I can go into PvP with you and show you some time…
This thread has degenerated into what the meaning of “is” is territory.
Can you use the things people have said to kill a thief/make them run away with his tail behind his legs while you cap the objective? Yes. Ok gg ty nothing more is needed then. /Thread.
Gee lets make engineers more annoying and frustrating to catch =.= and actually combat. Engis have access to condi removal through elixirs. Healing turret is pretty good (15-20s CD removing 2 conditions). Truth is if you want more condition removal you got to give up something else for it.
This.
Eng’s resistance to conds was nerfed when AR was nerfed (deservingly so with that specific trait, but that made eng’s overall weakness to conds even weaker). No compensation was given. Just simply asking for something to be done to balance it out a bit =/= should have to give up something more. If they added in something major, then yes, something should give… but I haven’t seen or heard of anything like that being proposed.
Nerco’ing in a attempt to stop the endless flow of useless thief/stealth threads appearing lately
Sadly I don’t think it will. The vast majority of the complaints seem to be WvW related. ’Cause you know… solo roaming in WvW matters and needs to be balanced asap.
It is more that a thief can disengage but can keep you permanently in combat. Even if the theif can not win a fight they will annoy you until they get help. In spvp theives are not that big of a problem but in wvw it is.
So you post a vid of what’s considered the second most OP class in the game being wrecked by what’s considered the first most OP class in the game?
Facerolls a faceroll?
God I wish my comp was good enough to record. Eng also wrecks Teef all day long. Inb4 eng is faceroll.
^^^ engineers laugh at thieves so hard. Whether they be condition or even power, the amount of area control they put out can lock down most thief builds easy
I don’t have issues with most engineers they have weaker cleansing then me but one thing they all do is pop supply crate on me everytime. I don’t understand for warrior as well I usually stealth until the stance is over and it’s not hard to evade the burst skills.
If you play thief you would know it’s UP class forced to used either full SA or Acrobatics to survive don’t have it you do not last long enough to do your damage. You probably encounter the glass canon ones with wrong weapon set and traits I only make you my target if you use P/D or S/D. D/.. is just meh do what you want.
Why isn’t anyone talking about improving thief,make the trap and trick skills more useful,give them more survivability without having to use stealth,make other weapon useful in pvp because I’m pretty sure everyone knows P/P and S/P are useless in pvp D/D is weak without stealth.
p/d = enjoy eating your sneak attack back to you, but it is the strongest vs eng due to lack of cond removal. Avoid the c&d (unless you want to reflect back a sneak attack), ss isn’t that big of a deal. If it’s a venom share, just block the burst and you’re fine. S/d will still take damage even with all of the evades due to so many attacks + damaging fields. I do see a lot of turret eng’s around as of late in hotjoin/solo though… those are bad eng’s. If an eng needs to bust a crate on a thief 1v1… what is this… I don’t even… hotjoin?
really? then please tell me how to deal with it. sitting in aoe is only a delay and even then they can ignore it and win depending on your health thanks to increased damage attacks from stealth and increased damage the lower your opponents health is..
running the other direction from where they stealthed… im pretty sure they can move faster
try to hunt them down hmm did they go left or right? did they go further away or port behind me? couple that with no info on if you are hitting them good luck.
these are the suggestions i have seen people give out.
You shouldn’t just be sitting in aoe you randomly put out. You need to time it and understand what a thief will do in a given situation. That’s true for fighting any class. You need to know what your opponent is capable of and needs to do. It does work.
If you get bursted, cc/heal up/counter attack so they are forced to withdraw. You should be able to recover from a backstab burst (or a burst from any class unless you goofed). It’s not like other classes can’t burst as well. It’s a skill you need to have.
So you failed to stop them from stealthing (oops on your part), and then they run in the other direction. So… you’ve won the cap. Who cares that they didn’t die and you can’t tell exactly where they went? Often I’ll be able to get the cap and pull them back to me and finish them off anyways though… even if not and they come back for a 2nd attempt… great! That’s less time they are able to 2v1 team mates (etc.) and more time wasted trying to kill me and cap.
Once again I highly suggest you post your class/build/gear in the thief subsection so they can give you more specific advice.
Hello frands! Vee Wee here retired #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!
This discussion tapered off pretty quickly my frands! I still think Engineers need more condition removal! Let’s hear what the devs think about this situation! Let’s also here some community input! Wahoo!
Wahoo! Bye frands!
Bhawb already pointed out my input:
It really just sounds like you don’t want anything in the game to punish you for spamming out as many conditions as fast and hard as possible. I once asked a guildie who was complaining about Necros on his Engi what else he had problems fighting.
He said nothing.
I don’t like hard counters, but if you specifically build yourself in a way that’s vulnerable to a particular class’s mechanics, then that’s your fault. I make myself more vulnerable to Thieves out in WvW with my weapon choices, but I’ve worked on adapting to that through playstyle/timings. Also, I think far too many people automatically give up with regard to certain match-ups because they hear someone else say the game is rock/paper/scissors, and it excuses them from taking responsibility for losing. Yes, builds play a large role in the game, but sometimes even a single utility swap can mean the difference between winning and losing a fight.
I know you can’t swap utilities in a tPvP match, but that’s a team-oriented fight anyway, and you should be coordinating with your team to both build and rotate properly to achieve success.
Other cond builds have advantages over eng due to the lack of cleansing and lack of good stability/stunbreak options.
WvW isn’t balanced regardless, so just meh.
Gw2=buildwars 2 in far too many cases. Yes you can make up for most of the counters, but the amount of skill required is higher. Eng. Vs. Necro is the hardest matchup I can think of. It’s too severe. I would far rather fight an eng on my thief or (which is thief’s strong counter) etc.
did you read my post? I brought 3 logical explanations …
Yes, I’m still waiting for some sort of source. So far it’s just you saying “of course” etc.
I don’t see how it would be very hard to add in another slot for specific classes if that is what they wished to do.
so how would you do it for ele?
and keep in mind … Anet thinks of the community that people are too stupid to understand that for example 2 sigils that proc on weapon-switch don’t work together so they changed it …
and btw: when you’re talking about sources. Give me a source that says it’s a balancing-issue.
I don’t think that adding in extra sigil slots when a weapon is equipped on a specific class would be all that hard to implement if it was a priority.
I’m not the one asking for a change, burden of proof is on you first and foremost. Provide it and I’ll go looking through ancient dev posts. Until then, no reason to.
I play condi thief and if you don’t know I have the weakest cleansing in game. If I can handle terromancer and condi engi there is no way any other class should struggle against conditions builds unless it counters your build for example boon engi vs corruption necro or glass canon.
Solution get cleansing, a little more vitality,don’t let conditions surprise you as one my self I have timing to create a certain burst, do not stay in red circles.
The only conditions strong with power build are burning and fear. D/D ele can only reach that if he’s hybrid with 20+ might stacks.
Debatable… being able to cleanse all damaging conds other than torment+ regen after is pretty strong… then 1 every 3s in stealth. It’s not amazing but I wouldn’t call it the worst in the game.
1. i use my burst skills when i’m blinded. it should be more rewarding!
2. i spam all my skills at an evade spam thief and it doesn’t work. it should be more rewarding!
3. i throw my aoes out randomly at a stealth target so they do not do enough damage when they accidentally hit. it should be more rewarding!
4. i waste my dodges and blocks on situations where i know they will not help. it should be more rewarding!
5. i can’t beat people unless they make a mistake when i’m obviously making many. it should be more rewarding!
i… you… okay…
You wrong, hes no the only whit the thief problem, seriously every match i play against thief is just irritating, This is the only &%$@ game without a countermeasure against stealth and now we have to deal whit the perma evade. This class is getting out of balance every patch and without a competent devs to bring a decent fix to the class this game will keep bringing people to the rage quit most constant than you think.
No countermeasures? Go play a P/S + bomb/nade/x eng and you should start to see many soft counters.
again those “counters” work so much better on people I can see because I can concentrate them in one spot on my visible opponent rather then dropping them on myself in hopes the thief is stupid enough to melee me… if anything the stealth mitigates the damage
They work just fine even if you can’t see the thief. If you were able to see the thief all the time and they were just as squish, the class would be a joke.
Some players just need to learn how to fight with them properly and understand what thieves do instead of turning into grazing cattle when faced with stealth.
oh you mean press 1 spin around and count to 3 before you dodge.. that’s mlg material right there
If that’s what you think is the best way to deal with a thief stealth attack… then you have quite a bit of learning to do. That type of stuff will help newer players that don’t have a clue with how to deal with a stealth attack and don’t want to put any time into the game though… and it’s better than acting like grazing cattle… but it’s far from the best.
If you’re serious about learning, then I highly suggest you go into the thief subforum and post your class/build/gear and ask them the tatics you could use to help against the type of thief you’re having problems with. As long as you don’t ask for nerfs/call thief OP/etc. they will help you and give you advice.
1. i use my burst skills when i’m blinded. it should be more rewarding!
2. i spam all my skills at an evade spam thief and it doesn’t work. it should be more rewarding!
3. i throw my aoes out randomly at a stealth target so they do not do enough damage when they accidentally hit. it should be more rewarding!
4. i waste my dodges and blocks on situations where i know they will not help. it should be more rewarding!
5. i can’t beat people unless they make a mistake when i’m obviously making many. it should be more rewarding!
i… you… okay…
You wrong, hes no the only whit the thief problem, seriously every match i play against thief is just irritating, This is the only &%$@ game without a countermeasure against stealth and now we have to deal whit the perma evade. This class is getting out of balance every patch and without a competent devs to bring a decent fix to the class this game will keep bringing people to the rage quit most constant than you think.
No countermeasures? Go play a P/S + bomb/nade/x eng and you should start to see many soft counters.
again those “counters” work so much better on people I can see because I can concentrate them in one spot on my visible opponent rather then dropping them on myself in hopes the thief is stupid enough to melee me… if anything the stealth mitigates the damage
They work just fine even if you can’t see the thief. If you were able to see the thief all the time and they were just as squish, the class would be a joke.
Some players just need to learn how to fight with them properly and understand what thieves do instead of turning into grazing cattle when faced with stealth.
Engis have the best variety of builds in the game outside of warriors. Not to mention transmute, healing turret, super elixir, and elixir C. Also healing turret is one of the shortest CD heals in the game and it’s a free 2 condi clear on a 1/4 second cast time. Not too shabby. Mesmers would kill to have engineer level of condi clear… Just sayin.
How many hours do you have on your engie? What build do you use that you feel handles conditions well?
I’m not saying that engis handle conditions well… But saying that engineers have the worst condition removal in this game is LOLOL… +
What profession is worse it it’s productive overall build and why?
one of the inherent problems of the profession, is that it is balanced around a minimum of at least one kit filling a utility slot. A slot other professions can arm a dedicated condition removal, mobility skill, or sun breaker, the is otherwise not avaliable to the engineer.
And yet most mesmers take null field only which even if the mesmer stands in for the duration is less condi removal than using healing turret off cd… Just saying
Are you kidding me?? Mesmers have two to three times the options for condition removal then what an engi has. I rarely have problems with condition removal on my Mesmer if I spec for it.
Mesmer torch can remove 2 conditions pretty much every 20-25 seconds. Mending Purity can remove like 6 conditions every 15 seconds if you have the Mantra heal and mantra can be casted 3 times. If using Ether Feast 2 conditions every 20 seconds is pretty decent. The condition removal mantra removes 4 conditions every 20 seconds. Arcane Thievery removes or xfers 3 conditions every 45 seconds. Null field pulses removal every 45 seconds or so for 5 seconds. Phantasmal disenchanter. All that and you can trait the cooldown for mantras, spec into more mantra usage.
Let’s see what an Engi has. A crappy transmute every 15 seconds. The condi clear from the healing is decent. Elixir C has like a 45 second cooldown. Throwing it removes/xfers one condition.
I don’t know how you can dispute the fact that a Mesmer has way more options for condi clear than an Engi
LOL and how many PU mesmers are used in high end teams? How many mesmers represented in the last TOL used any condi clear at all… OYEAH none. You know why because mesmer is taken for portal, illusion of life and that’s it… Most high end mesmers run GS staff… no condi clear there. And if you are not runnign shatters remove a boon as a mesmer then you are bad.
Read my post again. I never said anything about PU Mesmers. I dont give a sh** about what people run in ToL and people act like ToL should be taken as the holy grail of what people should run. Just because people in ToL don’t run condition clear that is there fault nobody elses. sPvP and ToL is a stupid gamemode that pretends to be like League of Legends LCS in which professional teams go at it when indeed there are clearly so many imbalances and it all revolves around throwing all your skills into a small circle.
There is also WvW and PvE those are also game modes. The fact is Mesmers have way more options then Engineers do in terms of condition removal. Do I need to number them for you so you can visually see that Mesmers have 2-3x the options then Engineers do? Just because people choose not to use them, doesn’t mean they are non-existent.
THINK PLZ!!!!
im fine with you getting more condi removal as long as it forces you to chose it in your traits over something decent like vigour or swiftness or burning then that’s fine :p, even better put it in the areas with weapon buffs its ok because you will have them then just like the Mesmer right?
oh and if they give you guys easy condi removal traits/utilities they better give necro easy access to stability too because fair is fair
Adding in a little more cond removal on eng wouldn’t make them strong vs conds… just not quite as weak Vs. them.
That doesn’t mean that necro should have stability and great cond removal. I don’t understand where people are getting that idea from but it’s silly.
You do know that eng has poor stability/stunbreak options as well right?
Oh great enlightened one, how does one counter stealth? You said so many words but did not mention any point or content.
Aoe/preventing them from stealthing in the first place (on thief all but blinding powder can be prevented)/punishing them when they use their stealth attacks.
No hard counter/reveal when they are already stealthed is needed. That would just dumb down the game.
AoE skills have long CD. Even if it has no CD it still is not big enough cover to hit someone in stealth.
Hard counter/reveal breaks the skill intself (thief, mesmer, other class on blanket stealth). Perhaps a soft counter?
1. Shadow on the ground
2. Foot steps on the ground
Depends on your class as far as how long the cd is. Eng has no problem with being able to put out AOE regularly. Aoe will at the very least limit their ability to stay on a capture point (in some cases it covers the entire point + more). Anything more isn’t necessary.
Being able to tell exactly where your opponent is would also kill stealth.
At least some skill is involved. Same goes with toon animation to dodge or avoiding AoE rings on the floor, or differentiating clones from Mesmer if the toon casts or dodges. What skill other than stealth will give you a 5 players swinging mindlessly on hopes to hit a player in stealth?
If you understand what the theif is trying to do and what would be best for that thief at that time you’ll know (about) where he is.
If you were able to tell where he was there would be far less skill involved.
Oh great enlightened one, how does one counter stealth? You said so many words but did not mention any point or content.
Aoe/preventing them from stealthing in the first place (on thief all but blinding powder can be prevented)/punishing them when they use their stealth attacks.
No hard counter/reveal when they are already stealthed is needed. That would just dumb down the game.
AoE skills have long CD. Even if it has no CD it still is not big enough cover to hit someone in stealth.
Hard counter/reveal breaks the skill intself (thief, mesmer, other class on blanket stealth). Perhaps a soft counter?
1. Shadow on the ground
2. Foot steps on the ground
Depends on your class as far as how long the cd is. Eng has no problem with being able to put out AOE regularly. Aoe will at the very least limit their ability to stay on a capture point (in some cases it covers the entire point + more). Anything more isn’t necessary… unless you play WvW, and WvW is just borked altogether when it comes to balance (and stealth isn’t even close to the biggest reason why).
Being able to tell exactly where your opponent is would also kill stealth. That’s what a shadow or footsteps would do.
1. i use my burst skills when i’m blinded. it should be more rewarding!
2. i spam all my skills at an evade spam thief and it doesn’t work. it should be more rewarding!
3. i throw my aoes out randomly at a stealth target so they do not do enough damage when they accidentally hit. it should be more rewarding!
4. i waste my dodges and blocks on situations where i know they will not help. it should be more rewarding!
5. i can’t beat people unless they make a mistake when i’m obviously making many. it should be more rewarding!
i… you… okay…
You wrong, hes no the only whit the thief problem, seriously every match i play against thief is just irritating, This is the only &%$@ game without a countermeasure against stealth and now we have to deal whit the perma evade. This class is getting out of balance every patch and without a competent devs to bring a decent fix to the class this game will keep bringing people to the rage quit most constant than you think.
No countermeasures? Go play a P/S + bomb/nade/x eng and you should start to see many soft counters.
@Aberrant: Of course it’s difficult to implement. How do you want to add sigil slots to weapons that don’t exist without making it too complicated (and Anet always wants to avoid complicated things at all costs).
Where is the connection between having 40 spells and access to sigils? This connection only has been made because (like I said) everything is justified by that 40 spell argument. This argument is just made up out of thin air.
If a class seriosuly has to be denied access to equipment that ist standard for other classes, then something has to be really really wrong with balance.
@DiazKincade: I think the more important aspect of your idea is the availability of a second weaponset for example in s/tPvP :P . The sigils would only be secondary here.
Just saying “of course” isn’t adding in any additional information. I’m just left to presume you have nothing to back up what you’re saying then.
Oh great enlightened one, how does one counter stealth? You said so many words but did not mention any point or content.
Aoe/preventing them from stealthing in the first place (on thief all but blinding powder can be prevented)/punishing them when they use their stealth attacks.
No hard counter/reveal when they are already stealthed is needed. That would just dumb down the game.
A lot of people already have spoken about this mechanic, keep this reclaim in anet eye and lest no stop until our voice reach the goal.
here some suggestions :
1- Stealth counter
2- no stealth combo finisher
3- 1 sec cast time to enter stealth
4- less spammable mechanic
5- break stealth upon enter battle or until damage is receive
6- increase damage on stealth players
anymore suggestions?
A lot of people don’t want to learn how to counter stealth. That doesn’t mean that it needs a hard counter or any of these other things in addition to what already exists. That just means a lot of people are not willing to put in the effort and would rather complain on the forums instead.
The mechanic that lets my mes drop phants from stealth and thus effectively still deal damage while still being stealthed is kinda jacked up though… but the vast majority of the threads just cry out for a nerf to stealth that would wreck thieves (like this one).
I hate the ‘report’ threat so so much. After playing League of Legends people will threaten to report you for pretty much everything, usually if they don’t get their way.
It’s become the online ’I’m going to tell teacher!’.
It’s a sad reflection on how kids are becoming so inept on taking responsibility for and sorting out their own arguments their instant response to any issue is ’I’m gonna tell on you and then you’ll be in trouble!’ So placing the onus on someone else to deal with the confrontation.
Don’t worry though, once they leave mommies breasts they’ll realize no on gives a **** about their problems in adult-land and they’ll actually have to deal with things. (unless they become one of those loons who calls the cops every 5 minutes with reports of someone calling them a mean name.)
Wat? Handle it yourself by challenging them to a 1v1 or get in an internet fight over it or something? That’s as silly as posting about it in the forums… absolutely nothing good will come of it.
No need to act like a child. If you want to report some one for breaking the TOS, then just report them, no need to tell them or run around talking about the situation. Just report and let a-net handle it.
You guys are trying to fix something that isn’t broken.
Not being able to swap weapons and not being able to take advantage of a few of the sigils is a limitation of the Ele and Engi classes that is accounted for by the incredible utility of having access to DOUBLE the number of weaponskills as compared to every other class in the game.
I’ve been playing an Ele long enough to understand this.
Since release of the game people keep justifiying every single nerf and drawback of eles with this (ridiculous) argument. They keep babbling about it because everyone says so and nobody can think about it on their own. It’s like the 10th time I’m reading that in this thread without ever hearing a reasonable different argument.
As someone said before, classes should be balanced by their spells and mechanics of their own – not by additional stuff like availability of gear, runes or sigils.
I’d actually like to hear an Anet-statement about this. They gave the second sigil slot to 2h weapons to make it more balanced in comparison to classes/builds that use 2 1h instead. In principle this is the same with eles/engis compared to the rest. Like I said before this isn’t an intentional nerf to those two classes but instead it’s due to the fact that 2 additional sigil-slots are difficult to implement because of the 1-weaponset-design of those two classes, therefore a design-flaw.
Ok so you say it’s wrong, but give no to back that up that opinion… then claim it’s because additional sigil slots are difficult to implement. Got any sources or are you just “babbling” as you put it?
Two very different games. Thieves don’t stunlock in gw2 (unless you’re bad and you let a pistol whip thief do it) or remove all your opponents weapons or get free poision additives to their weapons etc. etc.
If you want that stuff then wow has it.
Wasn’t my point. Not talking about thieves or rogue here. Doesn’t matter if those 2 games are different. I was talking about counters. Currently, it has none. (unless you count sic em which only count for 0.5 as it only prevents stealth). Also, I’m sorry for wishing gw2 would force intelligent choices in regards to when to use stealth like in wow…
Yea lets just ignore that what you said before wasn’t accurate. Fine with me.
There is only one stealth that thieves have that can not be stopped (blinding powder). You can counter the rest. Even if they do stealth you can make it so they pay for it when they try to strike from stealth. These aren’t as obvious counters as a direct anti-stealth, and different classes have this to different extents, but they work (eng’s nom thieves without revealing them through a skill because of these types of things). I don’t see any problems with this.
Not counters.
Yes they are. You’re able to counter their ability to enter stealth or capitalize on their stealth. It’s not push 1 button then gg though (which seems to be what many in this thread are looking for). L2P issue it seems.
